"Walking Away From Broadway"

Summary

Stage Combat The Podcast - Season 3 Finale: "Walking Away From Broadway"

Release Date: February 24, 2025
Host: Sean Hayden
Guest: Bobby Steggert, Broadway Actor

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Introduction

In the riveting season finale of Season 3, titled "Walking Away From Broadway," Sean Hayden delves into the poignant journey of Bobby Steggert, a seasoned Broadway actor who chose to leave the limelight in pursuit of personal fulfillment and healing. This episode not only encapsulates Bobby's remarkable career but also unearths the profound personal struggles that led to his transformative decision.

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Bobby Steggert's Broadway Journey

Bobby Steggert hails from Frederick, Maryland, a town steeped in history. From a young age, Bobby was enamored with Broadway, inspired by his grandfather's collection of every show poster. This passion led him to NYU's musical theater program, setting the stage for a illustrious 25-year career on Broadway. Bobby's notable performances include revivals of "110 in the Shade" and "Ragtime", the original musical "Big Fish", and "Mothers and Sons" alongside Tyne Daly.

"I grew up looking at all these posters of Company and Little Night Music and Sweeney Todd, and it was this world that I just dreamed of one day getting to inhabit."
— Bobby Steggert [03:40]

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The Pivotal Moment on Stage

During the production of "Mothers and Sons", Bobby experienced a life-altering moment. In a sparsely attended Wednesday matinee, while performing a personal monologue about joy and connections, an internal voice confronted him with the stark reality of his own unfulfilled life.

"There was just this little, very wise, very blunt voice internally that said, oh, my God, you don't have any of this."
— Bobby Steggert [01:57]

This revelation caused Bobby to lose his script, leaving him momentarily paralyzed on stage. Although he regained his composure and continued performing, the incident marked the beginning of his introspective journey.

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Confronting Personal Trauma

Bobby's realization stemmed from years of prioritizing professional success over personal well-being, deeply rooted in his upbringing during the 1980s. Growing up as a gay individual in a society fraught with stigma and fear, Bobby internalized a "death sentence" mentality surrounding his sexuality.

"I grew up knowing very early that I was gay in the '80s, and it felt like a very dangerous thing to be, very unacceptable thing to be."
— Bobby Steggert [03:48]

This internal conflict led him to channel his unresolved trauma into his acting, often portraying characters in pain, thereby neglecting his own emotional needs.

"I played tortured spirits all the time... I was of the belief, to a certain degree, maybe fully of the belief that I had to stay in a place of turmoil in order to continue being successful."
— Bobby Steggert [17:12]

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The Decision to Change Careers

By his late 30s, Bobby felt increasingly isolated despite his success. His role in an off-Broadway play, coupled with financial strains and a painful breakup, propelled him to reconsider his life trajectory. Embracing his long-standing interest in psychology, Bobby enrolled in Columbia University's social work program, marking his exit from the acting world.

"I can't do this anymore. I cannot be middle-aged and be this at sea."
— Bobby Steggert [20:51]

Transforming into a therapist during the pandemic, Bobby found solace in helping others navigate their grief and fears, a stark contrast to his former life on stage.

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Reflections on Healing and Current Work

As a therapist, Bobby draws parallels between acting and his current profession, noting the intimacy and spontaneity inherent in both roles. His practice during the pandemic was both challenging and fulfilling, providing him with the tools to continue his personal healing journey.

"Part of my healing was getting to be ordinary. And it was painful at first to feel ordinary, and then it became a real joy to feel ordinary."
— Bobby Steggert [25:30]

Bobby emphasizes the ongoing nature of his healing, advocating for self-acceptance, service to others, and gratitude for simple joys. His recent return to acting, notably in "The Gilded Age", signifies a harmonious blend of his matured self with his artistic talents, free from the shadows of past shame.

"By not needing it, either symbolically or literally, I was able to be very free in it."
— Bobby Steggert [28:30]

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Key Themes and Insights

1. The Duality of Success and Personal Well-being

   • Bobby's story underscores the tension between professional achievements and personal happiness. His pursuit of Broadway success inadvertently led to neglecting his emotional health.

2. Impact of Societal Pressures on Artists

   • The entertainment industry's emphasis on status and relentless pursuit of success can exacerbate personal struggles, as evidenced by Bobby's internal battles.

3. Role of Therapy and Self-Acceptance

   • Transitioning to a therapeutic role enabled Bobby to address his trauma, highlighting the importance of mental health and self-compassion in achieving true fulfillment.

4. Breaking Free from Shame and Narcissism

   • Bobby discusses how societal and industry pressures foster shame and narcissistic tendencies, advocating for authenticity and genuine human connections.

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Notable Quotes

• Bobby Steggert on Internal Realization:
  "There was just this little, very wise, very blunt voice internally that said, oh, my God, you don't have any of this."
  [01:57]

• On Sacrificing Personal Well-being for Success:
  "I had to stay in a place of turmoil in order to continue being successful."
  [17:12]

• Reflecting on Therapy's Role in Healing:
  "Part of my healing was getting to be ordinary. And it was painful at first to feel ordinary, and then it became a real joy to feel ordinary."
  [25:30]

• On Overcoming Narcissism through Therapy:
  "The thing about narcissism, and I've learned this, you know, clinically too, is that it's always based in shame."
  [24:16]

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Conclusion

"Walking Away From Broadway" serves as a profound exploration of the costs of artistic ambition and the redemptive power of self-awareness and healing. Through Bobby Steggert's narrative, listeners gain invaluable insights into balancing professional pursuits with personal well-being, the enduring impact of societal stigmas, and the transformative journey towards self-acceptance and service to others. As Sean Hayden aptly concludes, the episode is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and the enduring quest for authentic fulfillment.

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Join the Conversation:
Listeners are encouraged to share their own stories and continue the dialogue on creating safe, dignified, and respectful workplaces. For more exclusive content, visit Stage Combat on Patreon.

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This summary captures the essence of Episode 18, "Walking Away From Broadway," from Season 3 of Stage Combat The Podcast, highlighting Bobby Steggert's inspiring journey from Broadway to therapy.

Transcript

[Bobby Steggert]

Foreign.

[Sean Hayden]

So you've heard of Tom's Diner, right? Of course you have. This is where we started 18 episodes ago at the beginning of the season three of the podcast. Tom's is a New York City diner where, well, you all know the story by this point. It's the diner I was sitting in when I decided to tell my own story, Workplace story. And that story became seasons one and two of this podcast as we created a storytelling experience that sounded like a true crime podcast. Toms also became the place where somewhere between the greasy menus and the gawking tours, I realized my own story presented an opportunity to take what I went through and create something new. Because in this season, this podcast became a platform for a community of artists to come together and share their stories. Many of those stories have been about entertainment workers who were so traumatized by their working conditions that they just left the business. But for this final episode of the season, I wanted to share with you a different kind of story. What if you achieved your Broadway dreams and chose to walk away not because of a toxic workplace, but because you discovered something within you was missing? That's the story I read about recently in the Wall Street Journal about Broadway actor Bobby Stegert. Bobby had appeared on Broadway in the revivals of 110 in the shade and Ragtime, the original musical Big Fish, and the play Mothers and Sons with Tyne Daly. But then one day, Bobby chose to leave those gleaming lights of Broadway all behind him.

[Bobby Steggert]

I had this monologue as I'm meeting the character played by Tyne Daly, and my character is talking about all of this joy in his life, his friends, his connections, his travels, just all of the unmitigated joy through which he experiences the world. And there was just this little, very wise, very blunt voice internally that said, oh, my God, you don't have any of this.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

You.

[Sean Hayden]

Bobby didn't have any of that.

[Bobby Steggert]

Yes, it was speaking to me.

[Sean Hayden]

I'm Sean Hayden, and you're listening to the season finale of season three of stage, the podcast. This is episode 18, walking away from Broadway.

[Bobby Steggert]

I'm from Frederick, Maryland, which is a relatively small town, like a historic western Maryland town. But I grew up really very much obsessed with the idea of being on Broadway. It was a very, like, single track goal for me. I had a grandfather, my dad's father, who was really, really sort of a musical connoisseur, and he collected every show poster of every show that ever existed. And I grew up looking at all these posters of Company and Little Night Music and Sweeney Todd, and it was this world that I just dreamed of one day getting to inhabit. So even as a very young kid, that was my goal. And so I pursued musical theater at NYU and got in. And that was 25 years ago.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

So it was something that was always sort of ingrained in you even before you got to New York. Right. That was the destination point.

[Bobby Steggert]

Absolutely. And there was the dream, but there was also the sense that it would save me. You know, I grew up knowing very early that I was gay in the 80s, and it felt like a very dangerous thing to be, very unacceptable thing to be. And so imbued in the dream was the sense that I would be saved by it.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

You know, we've talked about this on one of our episodes, I was talking with actors Brett shuford and Michael McGurk, and we were all talking, between the three of us, that we. And I think many people do this, like you did yourself as a young person. Look to the theater as this haven that's going to save us from whatever it is we're going through, whether it's a dysfunctional family, whether it's. Whether it's dealing with our sexuality, which was my case as well.

[Bobby Steggert]

I mean, you enter into this community where being queer is not only normal, but the majority.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Bobby Steggert]

And there are so many ways in which difference is celebrated and embraced. And so what I find is the reality for so many of us is that what saves us also can hurt us. There is a duality there.

[Sean Hayden]

So what I want to do, Bobby, is Fast forward to 2014, and you've made it on Broadway. That little boy who had Broadway dreams has achieved them. And you're in the play Mothers and Sons with Tyne Daily, and something happens.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

During a Wednesday matinee that is a life changer for you.

[Sean Hayden]

Can you share that with us?

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah, it was a really symbolic moment. And then it took many months after that to really make a decision about where to go in my life. But, you know, in some ways, it was the capstone to everything I had been pursuing in the sense that it was a Broadway play that felt really important to me because I had been raised in musicals. And symbolically, it was like this expansion into something even more rarefied in my mind. This felt extra special, and especially for the parts of me that were really focused on status and the appearance of success and what that would mean to other people, what would that mean to my career. And it was also legitimately special because I was friends with Terrence McNally, who was an incredible man, wonderful mentor to me, and an amazing writer who was.

[Sean Hayden]

The playwright for Mothers and Sons.

[Bobby Steggert]

Right, right. And Terence wrote this part for me. He was writing the play and thought that I would be the right person to inhabit it. So he wrote the part on me and we developed the play and I helped him guide some of what happened for that character and how he expressed himself. So it felt like a collaboration. That was a dream come true.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Bobby, it doesn't get better than that to be on Broadway. And of all people, Terrence McNally has ridden apart for you.

[Bobby Steggert]

Right. And that wasn't lost on me. I want to make sure as I communicate this, that it was a dream come true. And what happened is, after all the brouhaha of the openings and the parties and the reviews and the Tonys and all that stuff, after that pass, we were in the bulk of the actual run of the show. And it was a Wednesday matinee, a sparsely attended matinee. And I think maybe there was something about my guard being down a little bit. I was just sort of in the flow of the play and actually maybe freer in it to just be. And the space that allowed resulted in me coming on stage. And I had this monologue as I'm meeting the character played by Tyne Daly. And my character is talking about all of this joy in his life, his friends, his connections, his travels, just all of the unmitigated joy through which he experiences the world. And there was just this little, very wise, very blunt voice internally that said, oh, my God, you don't have any of this.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

You, Bobby, didn't have any of that.

[Bobby Steggert]

Yes, it was speaking to me, and it stopped me in my tracks. It just completely silenced me. And I stared at Tyne with big saucer eyes. And I was such a good scene partner to her that she must have been very confused. That would never happen under regular circumstances. And she had to sort of improv around what we were saying to get me back on track.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Did you lose the lines at that point?

[Bobby Steggert]

Oh, yeah. I went totally blank.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Every actor's nightmare, right?

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah. And I got back on track. But the chilling thing was that for the rest of the two hour play, I wasn't there. I had to go on autopilot. And thank God I knew the play as well as I did because I just said the words and moved my body in the way that I knew it did in previous performances. But it was like that voice plugged me into an understanding of something that I could not unplug from. And the sense that there was so much missing in my life to be actually a well Contented, happy, and ultimately free of shame. Individual was sort of a profound realization that had been building, but that was.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Clear in that moment and before we go into what was the discovery of what was missing. I think it's really interesting, Bobby, that it's within this sacred space of being on stage. Where can be the ultimate mindfulness, is what I say sometimes, where not only can we discover things about the character that have never occurred to us, but just like you did, you almost have this kind of a sacred epiphany about your own life because you are in that sacred space on stage, feeling free.

[Bobby Steggert]

Right. And that I see now as a sacred moment as well. And so the theater gave me so much. And maybe ultimately what it gave me was the space to let an authentic moment that was internal come to the surface in a way that might not have had I been distracting myself in all the ways I was coping with the shame that I had never dealt with.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

So what was the moment telling you what was missing in your life?

[Bobby Steggert]

I don't want to give the impression that I didn't have a wonderful life in the sense that I have a great family. I've always had amazing friendships. I was a really good colleague. I loved being an actor. I was really proud of the work I did. None of that is untrue. But the parts of me that needed to succeed, to the degree that those parts of me needed to succeed, were really the driving force of everything I did up through my late 30s. And so those parts only cared about professional success. They only cared about whether other people and I could all agree that things were going well and that I was an important and valuable person and an important and valuable artist. It didn't, I believe, hurt my work, but it hurt me. And what I was doing was letting these other parts of me run the show, which created absolutely no space for me to deal with the traumas that I had grown up with and never dealt with.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

And I can't help but wonder, Bobby, how many people are in that same situation or have found themselves in that same situation?

[Bobby Steggert]

I'm sure many of us, we're steeped in a society that values status, money, and professional success over happiness and over connection.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah, I do know when I came early into New York and I came very late, I came in my early 30s, but I just had this mentality from movies and TV shows that you just have to do whatever it takes, and that's all that matters. And you sacrifice, really, almost being a human being, which is ironic, because you need those human qualities to Be a great artist. And I often tell my husband, it's a good thing you didn't meet me when I first moved to New York because it took me years to figure out how to be a more complete person. And I was so obsessed with trying to be successful as an actor. And I think that's something so many people who come to the city find themselves in.

[Bobby Steggert]

I think you're right. There's the mythology that you have to be all in and then there's the reality that you have to be all in. There is such scarcity of work.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Bobby Steggert]

There are so many people who dream of doing the work that so few people actually get to do. And so I believe sometimes those sacrifices were actually very necessary in order to succeed. So there's the belief system and then there's also the on the ground reality. And those two things conspire to make it a really, really difficult thing to not become obsessed with.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah. That's interesting. You say that it's the belief system that the outside world is telling us of what we're supposed to be when we come to the city to make it as an actor. And we buy into that to our detriment.

[Bobby Steggert]

Right. I mean, it's the same reason that I think we canonize rock stars who die of drug overdoses. There's something about the all in nature of that kind of life that we are fascinated by. So it's damaging, it's dangerous, it's hurtful, it's ultimately fatal for some people. And yet we are fascinated by it.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah. And this is not your story. We have told a story like what I'm about to say, but I think what it can do, it can really produce bad behavior from certain actors that will do anything to get ahead, which is the other side of it. It's not only neglecting what you need in your life, but it's really engaging, which is not your story engaging in harmful behavior because you're going to try to win at all cost.

[Bobby Steggert]

Right. And I think it comes from the same source, which is again, shame and a lack of real true self worth.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

I think so. Yeah.

[Bobby Steggert]

And some people externalize it by being abusive and some people internalize it by being self abusive.

[Sean Hayden]

So let's go back to you then.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

When you realize that the pursuit of fame and being successful did not allow you to deal with the space of the past trauma in your life. Is that something you feel okay sharing with us what that trauma was?

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah, I guess I'll generally say that I grew up with the very literal, very Concrete belief that I would die of aids.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah, me, too.

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah. And you're. We're about the same age, so that makes sense. Right?

[Unnamed Co-Host]

I'm a little older than you, but still. I'll take that, Bobby. But the same sort of that generational idea. Anytime. You're referencing the 80s and 90s.

[Bobby Steggert]

Right.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Basically, it's like, if you're gay, you're going to die. It was that blunt, right?

[Bobby Steggert]

Absolutely. It was a death sentence. And to me, this very sensitive little boy, I thought the death sentence was literal. I didn't think of it as maybe just a risk of sex. I thought of it as just as my fate.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Did you grow up religious as well?

[Bobby Steggert]

Catholic, which did not help.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Probably not. Yeah. I was fundamentalist Baptist, Bobby. And so, I mean, the word abomination, I. You know, you would hear it literally almost every Sunday morning. Like, they really had it out for the gays.

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah. You got to wonder.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

You would hear that abomination word in such a huge word when you're a little kid. An abomination? Yeah.

[Bobby Steggert]

That has some onomatopoetic vibes to it. Abomination.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

What does that word mean? I don't even know that.

[Bobby Steggert]

Like, it's like bang whiz. It's like. It's like a word that sounds like what it is.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Bobby Steggert]

Abomination. It has the power of the meaning.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah. I love that word. Okay, I'm going to write that down. Yeah. So was just the idea that being true to your sexuality was a future death sentence.

[Bobby Steggert]

Yes. And then so many ripple effects to that that even exist today. All of these fears around sex, fears around closeness and intimacy, rocky relationships.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah. You always heard that. And they would say homosexuals are incapable of having meaningful relationships. Right.

[Bobby Steggert]

Well, it's because they're all steeped in shame.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Bobby Steggert]

We have had a great history of shame. And that makes it really hard to love others when we're having trouble loving ourselves.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah. And so then, are you able to. In that space when this happens while you're working on Broadway, what do you do with that when you realize. Let me see if I've got this characterized correctly, that you feel like your life has been in a somewhat superficial pursuit of success and fame, but that it's not allowed you the space to deal with trauma from your life that seems to have been centered on dealing with your sexuality?

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah. And it gets really kind of. It twists on itself. Because then I particularly started to be known for work that was. I played a lot of characters who were in a lot of pain yeah, me too. And. And so then you start to use your trauma and your pain as a display of talent.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Bobby Steggert]

And I was of the belief, to a certain degree, maybe fully of the belief that I had to stay in a place of turmoil in order to continue being successful.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yes. And that if you were happy, then you would not be able to play those parts anymore.

[Bobby Steggert]

Right. And that brings us back to Mothers and Sons, because Terrence actually wrote this part that was not central to the dramatic tension of the play. He was actually representative of this joyous new life, the character who was my husband. And it was a real challenge for me, actually, to play someone who was that content.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

It was atypical for the type of part you would play. Right.

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah. I played tortured spirits all the time, too.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

So all of a sudden, you're having to face this alternate reality in a character that you don't typically do.

[Bobby Steggert]

Exactly.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

It sounds like a real juxtaposition.

[Bobby Steggert]

It was. And someone else might say it was a challenge to play someone who was in deep despair. And for me, it was a challenge to play someone who was happy. I just didn't understand yet the life of someone who had really fully accepted.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Themselves to portray that, honestly.

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah. I did my best to find the space that I had accepted in myself to portray it, but it wasn't a fully authentic performance because that wasn't an experience I'd ever truly had.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

So you actually wrote about this experience at Mothers and Sons in the Wall Street Journal. And you talk about a moment in the article where. Very cinematic moment, Bobby. You're in your dressing room and you're looking at yourself in the mirror and you say you saw a scared little boy who had never learned to love himself.

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah. It's funny that it seems cinematic, but it was just very truthful. It was just the bare truth. I just took myself in that day, and it was juxtaposed with, you know, I had this huge private dressing room and flowers and the lights around the mirror. The whole thing, the whole fantasy. And those things couldn't distract from the pain that I realized I could not get rid of through all the success.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Did you feel like you were in sort of that movie moment but the movie moment was real, that you were having that realization?

[Bobby Steggert]

It actually felt perhaps the opposite, which was the starkness of it was uncomfortably real.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah. Because it's just you alone.

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah. And where do you go next with this?

[Bobby Steggert]

Well, I muddled along for a year or two after that because I didn't know what the hell to do. That's the other thing. We're convinced as performers that we don't have any other talents, which is just so stupid. It's like the interpersonal skills and the emotional intelligence that artists have are off the charts.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Which we could do a whole podcast about. Bobby.

[Bobby Steggert]

Oh, sure. Yeah. I continued performing, and I think, I don't know if it was a year and a half or two years later, I was doing an off Broadway play, another play about trauma, where, you know, I was back to my wheelhouse of playing someone who was deeply troubled. And I was making like $400 a week to absolutely gut myself every night. And it was in that moment when I couldn't pay my rent and I was just walking around the city like a zombie, and I realized I was almost 40 years old. And I thought, I cannot do this anymore. I cannot be middle aged and be this at sea.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

So what did you do?

[Bobby Steggert]

I had a terrible breakup around that time. Like a humiliating, deeply sad, really painful breakup. I felt totally broken. I had always known that I had interest in psychology and being a therapist, and I just went on to the Columbia University social work website and applied. It was like this impulsive but also deeply knowing thing. I went on, I filled out an online application, and I never looked back to study. To study social work.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

And so you made that decision? I don't want to be a stage actor anymore at that moment.

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah. And I. I'm a bold kind of guy in the sense that I make strong choices and I stick to them. I have extreme parts that really commit to things. And so once I committed, I really committed and I called my agents and they were completely blindsided. Yeah, I just said, I'm done. Do not send me out anymore. I'm done.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Did they try to convince you otherwise?

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For a couple years I would get calls here and there, but then they got the message when I just kept saying no. And school got me so busy, and I was so interested and engaged in not only the personal work that I was doing on myself, but on the work that I was learning to do to help others that I kind of never looked back and did not miss it at that point.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

And in terms of trying to do the personal work on yourself, does that begin simultaneously as you're applying to study to be a psychotherapist, or were you doing something before you actually made a decision to change careers, mixed up in.

[Bobby Steggert]

There was a lot of therapy. So it's not like I was just like, free of any knowledge that I needed help.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

It's sort of this evolving, fluid timeline. Right.

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Which actually coincides with you studying to be a psychotherapist.

[Bobby Steggert]

Absolutely. It was all dovetailed. But prior to studying, I was in individual therapy. I was in group therapy. I was very committed to the therapeutic process before I started learning about it.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

And so you complete your studies with Columbia and then what do you do after that? Hang up your shingle?

[Bobby Steggert]

I become a therapist during the pandemic.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Wow.

[Bobby Steggert]

Which was wild. It was so wild. It was like trial by fire. And I worked six days a week holding space for all of the grief and fear and uncertainty and pain that people were going through during the pandemic. And yet it was amazing training, because now that we're talking about our individual lives that are so varied and interesting, the work is a lot easier.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

And so that hole that you felt.

[Sean Hayden]

Inside yourself when you were on stage and mothers and sons, do you eventually get to the point where you feel like you've successfully examined that or healed that, or is it ongoing?

[Bobby Steggert]

It's ongoing. It's a process. You know, age helps. And not being in a system that forces you to be a narcissist helps. And helping others helps.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

I don't know why that made me laugh. It's so truthful. Yeah. It's so true, Bobby.

[Bobby Steggert]

It is.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Bobby Steggert]

The thing about narcissism, and I've learned this, you know, clinically too, is that it's always based in shame, and that goes all the way to the top. I mean, Donald Trump is deeply ashamed of himself. He hates himself, and that's why he needs all these external markers of power and success. But it's true of anyone who displays narcissistic tendencies. And the system that is the entertainment industry forces you to be very self involved.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah. There are people in the industry with true narcissistic personality disorders. But I do believe, based upon, as I've talked with other psychotherapists, that we all have to have a little bit of narcissism to put ourselves out there, to sort of have that gumption to put ourselves on stage and have someone say, look at me. You agree?

[Bobby Steggert]

I do agree. And that is also the culture we live in.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Bobby Steggert]

So, you know, social media and the way that we are also obsessed with fame is asking us to be narcissistic.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah. And our political leaders are saying this is okay behavior. It's all around us. It's impossible to escape. And yet we were already working in an industry where it was being reinforced.

[Bobby Steggert]

Right.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Every day as well.

[Bobby Steggert]

So part of my healing was getting to be ordinary. And it was painful at first to feel ordinary, and then it became a real joy to feel ordinary.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

That. Okay, that just really struck something in me. I think I felt that way, too. Yeah.

[Bobby Steggert]

What did it resonate within you?

[Unnamed Co-Host]

I think there was a feeling at some point that if I'm not on stage, if I'm not singing, then I'm not special. And to come to the realization that being. We can call it ordinary, but just.

[Sean Hayden]

To try to be in the pursuit.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Of being a fully realized person that takes in the people around you. I'm going to get very emotional here. Is so powerful. It's more powerful than any song I could sing on stage in front of a room full of people. It takes a long time to get to that point.

[Bobby Steggert]

It does. And there are so many forces conspiring against that point of view.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

And like you and me, when it's so ingrained as kids and most theater actors, that this is this thing we love to do, and as kids, we felt like that made us special.

[Bobby Steggert]

And it did. That's the thing.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

It did make us special. Yeah.

[Bobby Steggert]

The duality is always there.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayden]

So, going back to your therapy practice, what is that like for you, and how very different do you find it from being an actor?

[Bobby Steggert]

It's not acting, but it's akin to acting because there is intimacy in that space and in that time, which is what I loved about acting. And there's spontaneity, and getting to learn and be curious about and open to any person's really complicated interior feels like a real blessing to me.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Where are you as an actor now? Because I know you're featured in the upcoming season of the Gilded Age on television.

[Bobby Steggert]

It's been really surreal because I decided that I wasn't an actor anymore, and I have not acted in about five years. And this came along sort of unexpectedly. And so they called my old agent and said, is he around? And I felt all of those old insecurities and fears. And so I said, no. I said, I will not audition for this. Please leave me alone. And through, I guess, a twist of faith, they couldn't find someone that they wanted for the part. So they called back and I said, all right, okay, fine, I'll audition. And I just happened to be in a space for it that day. Honestly, it was just a day where I felt somewhat flexible, and I just threw it on tape and didn't think much of it. And I think because I didn't think much of it, I was successful and I got it.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

That's usually the case, right?

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah, it is usually the case. So where I am is that I had a really wonderful time shooting and it felt like a real privilege and I got to work with some amazing theater legends who I really look up to and it was such a joy. And the reason it was a joy is because I don't fucking need it. I don't need the money, I don't need the credit, I don't need the legitimacy, I don't need the pat on the back. I don't need any of it. And by not needing it, either symbolically or literally, I was able to be very free in it. So the jury's still out. Like I had an amazing time shooting it. When I see it, I'm really curious to see if it will come across as authentically as I felt. Maybe like that old mojo of the shame and all the energy that was broiling in me because it wasn't there. I won't be any good, I don't know. But the experience of it was an ease, full joy.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

So you're open to more opportunities in film and television or.

[Bobby Steggert]

I'd love to do a play.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Really I would.

[Bobby Steggert]

I mean, the stage is my home. That's where I feel most comfortable and I would love to re approach it without any of the bullshit. I would love to show up and just do the work and just be really disconnected from what it means to an acting career.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Well, that's quite a turnaround. Is that because of the experience on the Gilded Age?

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah, I showed up, I did the work and then I went back to my life and didn't think twice about it.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Because you were given an opportunity to act, being at a different point in your life.

[Bobby Steggert]

Right. I'm an adult. I have hard earned wisdom and grounding and maturity and self acceptance and so I am curious to see how that could translate into a performance.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Yeah. What is that person like on stage now? Right.

[Bobby Steggert]

Maybe he's less exciting or maybe he's more interesting. I have no idea.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Or maybe he's just fully realized. Well, I was going to ask you something along the lines or kind of what are the hopes and dreams for your life? But I think you've sort of laid it out is you've kind of got the opportunity to live in two tracks but knowing that you're more firmly rooted in one of them.

[Bobby Steggert]

Yeah, I think I can live with myself every day because I'm working very hard to help others. I think that's a really important part of living as an adult is putting energy into being of service to others. So that's something I want to continue doing in earnest and really focus on. And the other is to be centered on and grateful for simple joys. I don't think I was ever able to do that when I was an actor because I was so obsessed with the larger idea of success. And so my hope is to continue enjoying very simple things.

[Sean Hayden]

Back at Tom's Diner, I just listened.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

To our interview with Bobby, our friend.

[Sean Hayden]

Final interview of the season, and I.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Forward it over to my editor like I've done so many times this season.

[Sean Hayden]

And with that, send.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

That's 18 episodes behind us.

[Sean Hayden]

We've experienced a lot in the stories.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

That we've shared together.

[Sean Hayden]

Inspiration, anger, joy, even a few tears. And as I close this out, I want you to know something. It has been an honor to have been welcomed into your ear pods, into your drives home and your workouts, to be in conversation with you. And I want you to know something else. I don't want you to lose hope, particularly during this overwhelming moment in our history as a nation. Don't stop sharing your stories. Don't stop having conversations, and don't stop believing that every person has the right to a workplace that is safe, dignified and respectful. Remember, we have the power to create change right here in our own backyard and with each other. And I don't know about you, but I'm just getting started. Hear more of my conversation with Bobby Steggert exclusively at Stage Combat at Patreon.

[Unnamed Co-Host]

Just follow the link in the show notes.

[Sean Hayden]

And we also highly recommend Bobby Steger's own podcast. It's called the Quiet Part out loud. A reminder that the content in this episode is not medical advice. So please consult with a medical professional. This episode was edited by Alex Griffin. Mixing and sound design were by Justin Garish. A big personal thank you to our editing team of Alex and Justin. We could not have created the amazing episodes of season three without you. This episode was written and directed by me, Sean Hayden for Heywood Productions LLC. Please stay in touch with us. Send us a DM at Instagram @StageCompat Podcast IG or email [e-mail] so for one last time this season, I will say I hope today and every day brings you an opportunity to claim your story. Stage Combat is a production of Haywood Productions llc.