Stand to Reason Weekly Podcast

Episode: Greg’s Experience on The Diary of a CEO Podcast

Host: Greg Koukl
Date: October 1, 2025

Overview:

In this episode, Greg Koukl shares a behind-the-scenes account of his recent participation on “The Diary of a CEO” podcast, a globally popular video podcast hosted by Steven Bartlett. Greg describes the preparation, the panel's diversity, the dynamics of engaging three distinct worldviews (Christian theism, atheism, and spiritual mysticism), and offers reflections on both the substance and strategy of representing Christianity before a massive, secular audience. He concludes with lessons learned for thoughtful engagement and how listeners themselves can think about defending meaning and purpose from a Christian worldview.

Main Theme:

How should Christians thoughtfully and graciously communicate the objective truth, meaning, and purpose of Christianity—especially when engaging differing worldviews in major public forums?

Key Discussion Points and Insights:

1. Background and Show Context

• Unique Setting: Greg broadcasts from a retreat in northern Wisconsin, reflecting on the unusual background and his current setting.

  “I'm actually in northern Wisconsin right now at my retreat… Anyway, glad you joined me today and thank you for being of the show.” (00:29)

• Opportunity Knocked:

  • Greg was invited by the Diary of a CEO (DOAC) podcast for a roundtable on the question of life’s meaning and significance.
  • He notes he’d never previously heard of the show or its host, Steven Bartlett, before being invited.

2. The DOAC Podcast and Panelists

• Reach and Impact:

  “I found out that this program is one of the most listened to programs in the world … a million and a half or more that watch any given episode. So this gives me an opportunity to be in a very popular venue with a massive footprint to potentially talk to more people than I've ever talked to before…” (04:08)

• Panel Diversity:

  • Greg represented Christian theism.
  • Dr. Alok ("Dr. K"): US-raised, Indian heritage, Buddhist/Hindu background, Harvard Medical School faculty—a spiritualist, neuropsychology-informed viewpoint.
  • Alex O’Connor: British, “the most famous atheist in the world right now,” known for sharp debate and online presence.

• Host: Steven Bartlett—described as fair, thoughtful, and interested in meaningful, multi-perspective discussion rather than a “gladiator event.”

3. Show Format and Approach

• Pre-Show Vetting and Preparation:

  • Greg was vetted by DOAC producers via a Zoom call after they discovered him through another interview. The goal: ensure he could represent the Christian view well and thoughtfully.
  • The show is filmed with eight cameras, over five hours; final episode is 3 hours and 23 minutes.

• Rescheduling Saga:

  • Original LA filming canceled last-minute due to host’s travel issues.
  • Rescheduled, recorded in New York a few weeks later.

• Panelist Analysis:

  • Greg’s team at Stand to Reason (“my young guns”) helped prepare by watching opponent videos, especially Alex O’Connor, known for both amicable and aggressive debate styles.

4. Goals and Mindset for Engagement

• Greg’s Stance:

  “I don't want to relativize it like that. My view isn't like, ‘well, here's our faith tradition, and yours may teach that, and everybody has a different point of view.’ … I think what I hold to as a faith tradition, if you will, is also a fact. I think it's the truth, it's the true story of reality.” (02:46)

• Strategy:

  • Avoid combative “debate” posture; pursue thoughtful, civil discussion.
  • Prepare tactically to engage, revisit key points, and avoid being outmaneuvered.
  • Emphasize not just representing views, but representing truth.

• Substance Over Winning:

  • “Debates are dangerous … persuasion … often hinges on who plays the game better… Even if your view is the true one.” (34:27)

5. Substantive Themes from the DOAC Discussion

• Objective Meaning vs. Subjective Meaning

  “Either there is objective meaning or not. If there is objective meaning, then there is an objective person who has made you for a meaningful purpose… If there is no God … then there is no objective meaning. And then your purpose is going to be whatever…” (37:49)

• The Restlessness of Modern Culture:

  • Cites Augustine and C.S. Lewis:

    “Lord, you have made us for yourself and our hearts are restless until they find their rest in you … The reason we were even talking around that table was because our hearts were restless and we were identifying the restlessness of a whole generation that seems without any mooring.” (39:09)

  • Hunger for meaning as evidence of a transcendent source.

• Suffering and Morality:

  • Atheist view has “no moral content to any suffering of any kind… not just animal suffering, but human suffering as well.”

• Clarification and Tactical Maneuvering:

  • Panelists, especially Dr. K and Alex O’Connor, excelled in using probing, clarifying questions—a tactic Greg calls “Columbo number three”—to explore assumptions and avoid entrapment.

    “They keep asking the same questions because they want clarification, they want to get clear on something…” (40:35) “…you will see this time and time and time again…asking questions to make a point, and the questions are linked together...likely to be a kind of gotcha moment...” (40:50)

6. Lessons Learned & Advice for Listeners

• Preparation & Teamwork:

  • Describes seeking advice from his STR team and other apologists (e.g., William Lane Craig).

• Reviewing Performance:

  • After five hours, exhausted and reflective, Greg wished he could have said more, but recognized the balance and editing of the show preserved most key contributions, despite some lost material.

• Tactical Takeaways:

  • Encourage listeners to watch the episode with a “critical eye” for both content and tactics—how participants frame arguments, clarify points, and respond to challenges.

• Self-Evaluation and Growth:

  “You may be a YouTuber yourself, engaging online…or just…friends…In any event, I think you will be able to benefit from this full podcast. … Think about how you would have done it, and that prepares you for the future.” (40:54)

7. Evangelistic Impulse and Takeaway Gift

• Ultimate Goal:

  “I want people to go back to The Story of Reality and get a full throated characterization of Christianity from beginning to end and understand how that is going to be the only ultimate, transcendent, reliable, true and accurate source of meaning and ultimate purpose.” (41:08)

• Free Resource for New Listeners:

  • Listeners (from DOAC or elsewhere) can get a free chapter from Greg’s book, The Story of Reality, at str.org/doac.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On representing Christianity in a public arena:

  “I was the Christian theist. There was an atheist, and then a spiritual guide type person... Of course, if I get an opportunity to be on a show…about meaning and purpose, especially from the Christian perspective, not just that it’s a perspective...I think it’s the truth, it’s the true story of reality.” (02:29)

• On panel diversity:

  “Dr. K…went back to India to study to be a Buddhist monk…became a psychiatrist, and then became a member of the faculty at Harvard Medical School. This guy’s a heavyweight…” (10:55) “Alex O’Connor…most famous atheist in the world right now. And he’s only 26 years old…very bright, very clever…very skilled at this kind of interaction.” (13:08)

• On the dangers of debate environments:

  “Debates are dangerous…because a lot of times the persuasion element…hinges on who plays the game better…your view may look compromised, even if your view is the true one.” (34:27)

• On the core point of meaning:

  “Either there is objective meaning or not. If there is…then there is an objective person who has made you for a meaningful purpose…” (37:49)

• C.S. Lewis-style argument for meaning:

  "We have a hunger for meaning and significance. Now, I don't see any naturalistic characterization that can make any sense of that." (39:46)

• On tactical mastery by all panelists:

  “If you do nothing else but listen for the tactical maneuvering that is going on there, do that.” (40:22)

• On Christian engagement:

  “I don't want to misrepresent nor mischaracterize, nor mishandle the truth or engage in a way that makes the truth look false.” (32:29)

• On after-action review:

  “Afterwards…is the best time for you to review what you said and what you might have said and how you could have made the point if you were faster on your feet or had more time…That was part of my limitation because I was squeezed out of some of these discussions or interrupted with the steamroller tactic, which I had to manage with Alex a little bit.” (41:03)

• On what matters most:

  “…that made the final cut. And in a sense, that was almost the most important moment. Not so I could sell books…but I want to sell books because of what the book says, and that’s why I wrote it…to make a difference if you write well and you tell the truth.” (41:11)

Structure, Tone, and Style:

• Greg’s Narrative Voice: Friendly, sincere, humble, detail-oriented, occasionally humorous, and earnest in urging listeners to engage thoughtfully and critically alongside him.
• Tone Toward Opponents: Respectful, analytical, especially regarding Dr. K and Alex O’Connor, without denigration.
• Emphasis: Not on winning arguments, but faithfully, thoughtfully, and tactically representing the truth.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:29–04:25: Intro, setting, how Greg was invited, panel backgrounds
• 04:25–14:40: Show’s scope, panel diversity, format, and preparation
• 14:40–28:50: The dynamics of the roundtable, pre-show strategy, mutual engagement vs. debate
• 28:50–34:27: The risks and realities of public debates
• 34:27–40:22: Core arguments on meaning, purpose, suffering, and the tactical procedures in the conversation
• 40:22–41:18: Recap, lessons learned, and listener call to action

Final Takeaways for Listeners

• Watch the full DOAC episode (link at str.org), observing both worldviews and rhetorical strategies in play.
• Reflect: How would you, as a Christian, present and defend the objective basis for meaning and purpose?
• Take advantage of the free resource: Download the chapter from The Story of Reality to deepen your understanding.

“The story of reality … is going to be the only ultimate, transcendent, reliable, true and accurate source of meaning and ultimate purpose. All right, hope you watch it.” (41:09)