Standard of Truth Podcast – S5B12: Kristy’s KorneЯ – D&C 93 Part 3

Host: Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat (with Dr. Richard Leduc)
Date: August 27, 2025

Episode Overview

In this third installment focused on Doctrine and Covenants Section 93, Dr. Dirkmaat and Dr. Leduc dive into some of the most profound and controversial theological distinctions that set Latter-day Saint beliefs apart from mainstream Christianity. The discussion digs into the eternal nature of intelligence and humanity, pre-mortal existence, agency, and the implications these doctrines have on suffering, salvation, and the very nature of God. It's a deep, candid exploration of doctrine that many Latter-day Saints may not have fully considered and that many traditional Christians would consider outright blasphemous.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Importance of Understanding Jesus’ Nature and Preexistence

• Setting the Context: The hosts revisit the foundational ideas from prior episodes to emphasize why understanding the nature of Jesus and God matters.
  • “It matters because understanding who Jesus is and his divinity is what the Lord says here, that you may understand and know how to worship and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name and in due time receive of his fullness.” (Dr. Dirkmont, 03:12; referencing D&C 93:19)
• Parallel to John 1:1: D&C 93 draws a comparison to the New Testament declaration of Christ’s divinity and preexistence — but extends it dramatically to humanity.
  • “John 1:1 says in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word Was God... Here the Lord is saying something very similar to Joseph Smith. I was in the beginning with the Father and am the firstborn.” (Dr. Dirkmont, 04:14)

Humanity’s Preexistent State: Theological Divergence

• D&C 93:23–24 asserts humanity, like Christ, existed “in the beginning with the Father.”
  • “This is a declaration that in whatever way Jesus had a pre-existent life... we all had a pre-existent life. Jesus was in the beginning with the Father, so are we.” (Dr. Dirkmont, 05:35)
• Explains the LDS doctrine against the backdrop of classical Christian “creation ex nihilo” (creation out of nothing).
  • Mainstream Christian view: Only God exists eternally; everything else is created from nothing.
  • LDS view (per Section 93): Both the elements of the universe and “intelligence” (the fundamental essence/spirit of individuals) are uncreated and eternal.

Intelligence: The Uncreated Element

• D&C 93:29 is highlighted as a doctrinal bombshell:
  • “Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence or the light of truth was not created or made, neither indeed can be.” (Dr. Dirkmont quoting scripture, 08:55)
  • The implication: Intelligence cannot be created, even by God. This directly challenges the classical notion of God’s total omnipotence.
  • “If it wasn’t created or made... that’s not ex nihilo creation. Then if it wasn’t created or made... intelligence cannot be created by God.” (Dr. Dirkmont, 09:10)

Limits on Omnipotence & the Nature of God

• For classical Christianity, God’s omnipotence means no external limits — God creates ex nihilo, including any possible “laws.”
• LDS doctrine, as developed from Section 93 and later Joseph Smith teachings (e.g., King Follett discourse):
  • God is bound by certain preexisting laws and realities (“intelligence” is one).
    • “The idea that there’s something that God cannot create... places some kind of limitation around whatever it is we call omnipotence.” (Dr. Dirkmont, 09:39)
    • Latter-day Saints believe God operates within eternal law, not above it.

Radical Uniqueness of LDS Teaching: Becoming Like God

• Traditional Christianity teaches the aseity of God (self-existence; God has always been God).
• LDS doctrine teaches not just progression to godhood, but that human intelligence is of the same fundamental type as God’s.
  • “God’s very nature according to a Christian, is that he has always been God. If... God has always been God, then he can’t make you exactly like him. Because if you’re not God right now... then you can’t... always have been God. ...Man was in the beginning with God, intelligence was not created.” (Dr. Dirkmont, 13:02)

Innocence and Agency vs. Original Sin

• D&C 93:38: “Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning, and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again in their infant state, innocent before God.”
  • Contrasts with the doctrine of original sin: All humans are born irreparably sinful.
  • “Instead, the Lord is teaching in the beginning in the Spirit, and then in their infant state, all children were innocent...all start out innocent. We don’t start out sinful.” (Dr. Dirkmont, 18:59)
• How do we fall into sin? Through willful disobedience and inherited cultural traditions (v. 39).
• “It’s kind of this progressive thing. First the Son of God, then you, then your kids, and, and really giving them this idea.” (Dr. Dirkmont, 20:17)

Theodicy and Suffering – A Distinct LDS Explanation

• Traditional Christianity explains suffering as “God’s will,” inscrutable and necessary for unknown reasons.
• LDS view: Suffering is an essential, chosen part of our eternal progression.
  • We weren’t tricked into mortality; we saw the conditions, the suffering, and chose to experience them to become like God.
  • “We knew full well before we came to this earth that it was going to be terrible. In fact, we knew, as Joseph Smith would later teach, that’s how God came to be God, that he was once a man and once on an earth like us.” (Dr. Dirkmont, 25:09)
• “Only Latter Day Saints believe that the purpose of this life is to learn and grow to become more like God... The difference between us and traditional Christians is that, yes, you are going through sufferings in your life. You’re going through them right now. We all are. But you chose to come to this world. You saw how horrible it was. And even knowing that, even seeing that, you said, if this is the only way that I can become like my heavenly father and my heavenly mother, then I’m going to do it.” (Dr. Dirkmont, 31:26)

Practical Takeaway: Understanding Our Eternal Nature

• Section 93 helps Latter-day Saints comprehend humanity’s eternal identity and destiny.
• It affirms agency, eternal selfhood, innocence of children, and a concrete, participatory role in the plan of salvation.
  • “He says it so you can understand God, so you can understand yourself, so you can have a better insight into who you are as an eternal being. You were in the beginning with God.” (Dr. Dirkmont, 34:42)
• Ends with the Pauline challenge: “Man was also in the beginning with God, which is the reason why this life matters so much. We’ve existed forever and we’re gonna exist forever. And we have this teeny little bit on earth where we can grow to become like our heavenly Father and our heavenly mother.” (Dr. Dirkmont, 37:45)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the radical nature of Section 93:

“Verse 29 is one of the things that really sets Latter Day Saints apart from other Christians... Intelligence or the light of truth was not created or made. Neither indeed can be.”
— Dr. Garrett Dirkmont (08:55)

Explaining why other Christians see LDS beliefs as blasphemous:

“This is part of the reason why, because the first part of DNC93 we talked about, Jesus himself became... at the very least, even for that brief time in mortality, he didn’t have all of the fullness of the Father until after his baptism... That’s a blasphemy. Then you go to verse 29, which is stating unequivocally that the same way the Word was with God in the beginning, man was also in the beginning with God.”
— Dr. Garrett Dirkmont (16:55)

Humor and candor:

“Now, to fully game this out, we’d have to go and have a conversation about the King Follett sermon, which I’ll probably hold off on for a little while. I need you to trust me more after this discussion of aseity.”
— Dr. Garrett Dirkmont (22:50)

On suffering and agency:

“Could God make us like him against our will and without any effort? And if he could, well, why doesn’t he? Why doesn’t he just snap his fingers and all this suffering is over and we’re all gods and goddesses and it’s the greatest time ever?”
— Dr. Garrett Dirkmont (27:33)

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Key Theme | |:-------------:|:----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:11 | Review of Parts 1 & 2; Introduction to "heavy" doctrine in Part 3 | | 04:14 | Jesus’ preexistence and its scriptural context | | 05:35 | Humanity’s preexistence; comparison with traditional Christianity | | 08:55 | The nature of “intelligence” and radical LDS teachings (D&C 93:29) | | 09:39 | Implications for God’s omnipotence; Calvinism vs. LDS view | | 13:02 | Uncreated intelligence vs. the aseity of God | | 16:55 | Student reactions; why other Christians find LDS doctrine heretical | | 18:59 | Refutation of original sin; innocence in infancy | | 20:17 | Sequential revelation in D&C 93: God, you, your children | | 25:09 | Suffering, agency, and the LDS explanation for mortal pain | | 31:26 | The voluntary nature of mortal life; purpose of progress | | 34:42 | Section 93 as key to eternal identity and self-understanding | | 37:45 | Concluding injunction: value of mortality in eternal progression |

Tone and Style

The episode blends academic clarity with personable humor and candor, often poking fun at the heaviness of theological discussion and the relative unlikelihood that new listeners would start on part 3. Dr. Dirkmont uses analogies, scriptural exegesis, and real classroom questions to bring deep doctrine into approachable focus for faithful Latter-day Saints.

Summary for New Listeners

This episode is a deep yet accessible dive into one of the most distinctive LDS doctrines: that humanity shares an eternal, uncreated essence with God—contradicting traditional Christian notions of creation, the nature of God, and the origin of suffering. The hosts elucidate how D&C 93 reshapes our understanding of agency, the necessity of mortality, and God’s aims for His children. It is essential listening for those ready to grapple with “top shelf blasphemy” (from a classical Christian perspective) that is at the core of LDS identity.

For future episodes, Dr. Dirkmaat promises a turn from theology back to historical antagonisms faced by Joseph Smith—offering listeners a brief respite from “top shelf blasphemy” and Latin terms!