S5B14 Kristy’s KorneЯ - D&C 135 Part 2

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Standard of Truth
Host: Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat
Episode: S5B14 Kristy’s KorneЯ - D&C 135 Part 2
Date: November 27, 2025
Special Guest: Richard Leduc
Theme: Deep dive into the context, events, and aftermath of the martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith, focusing especially on legal, political, and spiritual facets as understood by Latter-day Saints (D&C 135).

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Overview

This episode continues an in-depth exploration of the events leading up to, during, and following the martyrdom of Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum Smith. Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat, with guest Richard Leduc, discusses the legal controversies, escalating tensions, political betrayals, and spiritual legacies surrounding the final days of the Prophet Joseph Smith, as recounted in Doctrine and Covenants 135 and firsthand narratives. The podcast emphasizes both the historical context and the enduring faith perspective of Latter-day Saints.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor and Escalating Tensions

[00:00–07:00]

• The destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor was a critical catalyst (“firestorm”) that led to Joseph’s eventual murder.
  • Nauvoo’s city council declared the paper a “nuisance,” destroyed it legally (in their view), but this ignited outrage.
  • Dr. Dirkmaat contextualizes: “Illinoisans were destroying presses without any repercussions... Elijah Lovejoy was... murdered, and no one was ever convicted for that.” (00:55)
• The Saints underestimated the reaction, having based their actions on precedents and their own experiences of unchecked false media inflaming violence.
• The anti-Mormon press (Warsaw Sentinel, Quincy Whig) becomes highly antagonistic after Joseph’s political choices.
• Legal proceedings begin, and Joseph is arraigned before a local, sympathetic justice (Daniel H. Wells), who dismisses charges.

2. Legal Complexity: Double Jeopardy, Extradition, and Imminent Danger

[07:00–17:00]

• Joseph writes to Governor Ford objecting to being tried again for the same offense (destruction of the press); invokes double jeopardy.
  • Quote from Joseph’s June 22 letter to Ford:
    “The constitution expressly says that no man shall twice be put in jeopardy of life and limb for the same offense...” (10:01)
• Joseph suspects a ploy: repeated arraignments in hostile jurisdictions until conviction—mirroring Missouri’s treatment six years earlier.
  • “They just keep pulling me around places until one... feels like they have enough to convict me.” (14:10)
• Governor Ford insists they must be tried at the Carthage county seat, despite admitting he may be unable to control violent mobs.

3. Psychological Pressure, Flight, and Return

[17:00–26:00]

• Joseph and Hyrum deeply fear mob violence—reminiscent of Missouri’s horrors.
• The brothers briefly leave Nauvoo, planning to lead the Saints westward (Texas, Cherokee territory, Oregon, or Mexico were all considered).
  • Joseph: “If my life is no value to my friends, it’s certainly of no value to myself.” (23:55)
• Strong pleas from Nauvoo (including Emma Smith) persuade Joseph to return and submit, hoping for safety in due process.
• Political/community tension: Non-Mormon Carthage resents Nauvoo’s growth and influence, with undercurrents of religious and economic rivalry.

4. Surrender, Legal Manipulation, and Imprisonment

[26:00–30:20]

• Upon surrendering, Joseph and Hyrum are initially arraigned and bailed on “riot” charges (for the Expositor's destruction).
• They are immediately rearrested on the non-bailable charge of treason, due to accusations (from apostates like Joseph Jackson) that Joseph illegally used the Nauvoo Legion militia.
  • Treason has serious implications: “treason carried with it something very special... it was a non bailable offense.” (29:25)
• Realization dawns: they are trapped, with their safety resting on Ford’s unreliable promises.

5. The Martyrdom — Firsthand Narrative and Aftermath

[30:20–1:27:00]

Inside Carthage Jail: Willard Richards & John Taylor’s Accounts

• The mood is somber and anxious; Taylor offers to help Joseph escape by force, which Joseph refuses, hoping not to escalate violence.
  • “If you will permit it and say the word, I will have you out of this prison in five hours...” — John Taylor (33:55)
• Dr. Dirkmaat and Taylor point out the irony: Joseph is accused of violence he refuses to use, while real violence comes from the mobs.
  • “You don’t hear Mormons... saying, 'We are going to level the rest of Hancock County.' But you certainly have Warsaw saying that about Nauvoo.” (37:20)
• Dr. Dirkmaat notes the “boogeyman” effect—Mormon militia as a scapegoat, while actual violence afflicts the Saints.

Patriotism, Betrayal, and Rebellion

• Latter-day Saint patriotism is deeply shaken; after the martyrdom, many refuse to celebrate July 4th in 1845.
  • “The Mormons think the liberty and independence of the United States has been too long trampled on to be celebrated.” (45:10)
• Discussion of assimilation: Over decades, Saints regain patriotic sentiment, particularly as communism arises as a common enemy in the 20th century.

The Attack and Its Details

• Joseph is given a pistol by Cyrus Wheelock for self-defense—a point sometimes muddled in retellings.
  • “Elder Cyrus Wheelock... drew a small pistol, a six shooter, from his pocket... Brother Joseph immediately replied, ‘Yes, give it to me.’” (50:50)
• The last hours:
  • Spirits are low; the men share wine (for “reviving,” not sacrament), and Taylor sings “A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief”—a hymn that becomes the poignant soundtrack of the martyrdom.
  • The attack is sudden and brutal: Hyrum is killed through the door; Joseph fires the pistol in self-defense, which causes the mob to stay outside the room, likely saving Taylor and Richards.
  • Taylor suffers multiple gunshot wounds as he attempts escape; Joseph is killed as he jumps from the window.
  • Richards survives; Taylor, grievously wounded, bears lifelong pain (notably, a bullet in his knee until his death).

Reflections on Injustice, Suffering, and Testimony

• John Taylor’s narrative emphasizes both the senseless horror (“Why must God’s nobility... fall victim to the cruel, fiendish hate...?”) (1:19:10) and divine reassurance.
• Taylor's personal testimony of Joseph Smith is moving and authoritative, based on close association and sacrifice.
  • “I know... before God and holy angels— I do not think it, I know it— that he was a servant of God and a prophet of the Lord, and he lived and died in the faith.” (1:22:30)
• Dr. Dirkmaat offers his scholarly and spiritual witness of Joseph Smith’s honesty and divine calling, reaffirming faith gained through both study and the Holy Spirit.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joseph’s Appeal to Ford:
  “We dare not come... we would not hesitate to stand another trial... were it not that we are confident our lives would be in danger.” (09:58)
• Dirkmaat on Historical Hindsight:
  “That’s the best part about being a historian, is you always get to be right about everything... you know how bad whatever a option was.” (03:10)
• On Accusations and Reality:
  “It’s not Thomas Sharp, the leader of the Warsaw [newspaper], who is murdered. It’s Joseph Smith who’s murdered. ... For all of the claims of this, oh yes, it’s the Nauvoo Legion. That’s your real threat. ... It’s the threat you want to see. It’s not in actuality what ends up happening.” (24:35)
• Patriotism and Disillusionment:
  “Joseph Smith had come to the conclusion... not for us, it’s not [the land of liberty].” (40:01)
• On the Last Hymn in Carthage:
  “Our spirits were all depressed... I sang the song... ‘A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief.’” — John Taylor (1:03:16)
• Taylor's Last Conversation with Joseph:
  “That’s right, Brother Taylor, parry them off as well as you can. Those were the last words I ever heard him speak on earth.” (1:13:20)
• Dirkmaat’s Final Testimony:
  “I can testify that [Joseph Smith] was an honest and a good man. ... I’ve studied it. But it’s not because I studied it that I believe. I believe because the Holy Spirit of God has told me that Joseph Smith was a prophet.” (1:26:20)

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Timestamps for Crucial Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |------------------------------------|-----------------| | Expositor’s Destruction | 00:00–07:00 | | Joseph’s Legal Objections | 07:00–17:00 | | Flight and Emma’s Plea | 18:00–24:00 | | Surrender & Rearrest in Carthage | 26:00–30:20 | | John Taylor’s Eyewitness Account | 33:00–53:00 | | Drinking Wine & The Last Hymn | 59:00–1:04:00 | | The Attack and Aftermath | 1:09:00–1:19:30 | | Taylor’s Reflections/Testimony | 1:22:00–1:26:00 | | Dirkmaat’s Closing Testimony | 1:26:00–end |

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Conclusion

This episode delivers an in-depth, emotionally resonant, and carefully contextualized retelling of Joseph Smith’s final days and the meaning of his martyrdom for Latter-day Saints. Rich with firsthand testimony, historical insight, and spiritual reflection, it demonstrates both the complexities of religious persecution and the enduring power of personal faith in the Restoration narrative.

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For further study:

• Read D&C 135 (Martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith)
• John Taylor’s detailed account of Carthage Jail
• Context on the Nauvoo Expositor and the legal environment of 1840s Illinois
• The changing relationship between Latter-day Saints and American patriotism over time

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Summary prepared to capture the nuance, testimony, and historical context provided by Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat and Richard Leduc. All quotes and attributions provided per the original speakers and timestamps from the episode transcript.

Transcript

[A]

When you want to look smart in Sunday school, if you want your friends to think you're cool, when you want to seem wise and not a fool, it's Christie's Corner. Hi. Welcome to part two of our special podcast on the martyrdom of Joseph Smith. I'm joined here by my friend Richard Leduc. Hello. And we're going to discuss further the events that led to the martyrdom of the prophet Joseph Smith. We talked in part one, so if you haven't listened to part one yet, now's the time to dial it back. Go listen to part one. So what we're sharing will make a lot more sense to you, hopefully. But go back and listen to that part. This is part two of the special podcast on the martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith. And when we last left off, we were talking about the destruction of the newspaper, the Nauvoo Expositor, this apostate newspaper that was declared a nuisance by the city council of Nauvoo, and that was abated, as the terminology is, meaning it was. It was destroyed. The press was destroyed. This sets off the firestorm that will lead to Joseph Smith's murder. There are a lot of aspects of this. I mean, honestly, you could. You could do an entire college course on what happens next in the next, you know, several weeks, but for our purposes, we're just going to cover some of the major events. This is. Is a huge outrage. Now, we talked on the last podcast that, you know, you know, Illinoisans were destroying presses without any repercussions for a while already. I mean, Elijah Lovejoy was not only lost his press several times, but was also murdered, and no one was ever convicted for that. So the reality is, I don't think the Saints believe that there's going to be as much reaction as there is, and it's actually pretty naive on their part. I mean, you have a lot of enemies, and they really want to have a reason to. To do something to you. And the destruction of the press, really, it allows them that opportunity. And hindsight's 20 20. That's the best part about being a historian, is you always get to be right about everything because you get like, oh, if it were me, I would have done this. Yeah, well, you're only saying that because you know how bad whatever a option was. And so, yeah, it's easy to say, well, if only they hadn't destroyed the press, then Joseph wouldn't have been arrested and then he would have been murdered at the same time. They were operating from their history. You Know, it's like the old saying, people always. They prepare for the last war, right? I mean, it's the only thing you can do is operate on the experience you've had. And what was the experience they had that allowing newspapers to publish, you know, vicious lies and attacks on the Saints actually inflamed mob violence that led to the violence in Missouri. And so they're seeing. They're seeing allowing this libelous press to continue running as much a danger or more of a danger than what would happen in the repercussions afterwards. And they really do feel like they're on good legal grounds. They feel like, look, here are all the other cases in the United States where a town was able to remove a press because it was libelous. If these people have a problem with us, they can sue us in civil court, but it's more a civil matter than it is a legal one. Well, of course, immediately the county erupts newspapers, the antagonistic newspapers, especially the Warsaw Sentinel and the Quincy Whig that had become virulently anti Mormon after Joseph stopped supporting the Whig Party. Again. Coincidence. I mean, they were really in favor with him. And then he said that he was against Henry Clay, and the next thing you know, he's the worst person who ever lived. But they especially will just, you know, be on the attack when it comes to Joseph. We've got to stop this Mormon problem. Joseph is going to be arraigned in the municipal court in Nauvoo. So we talked about the charter last time. Nauvoo has its own municipal court system and the charge of destroying someone's property in the town, I mean, it's a relatively small charge. I mean, if you go and destroy someone's property, well, then, you know, you might get charged with a criminal offense, but most likely you're just going to have to offer restitution for what's going on. And that's what happens. He's brought before Daniel H. Wells, who at this point is not a member of the church. He's what they would call back then a Jack Mormon. Today, when we use the term Jack Mormon, we mean like, oh, yeah, my uncle's a Mormon, but he, like, totally drinks. But back then, the term Jack Mormon meant someone who was not a Mormon at all, but was in sympathy with the Mormons. And that's who Daniel H. Wells is now. He's eventually going to become a, you know, counselor in the first presidency. So, I mean, he's got quite a bit of sympathy for the Mormons. But at this particular time, he's not a member of the church yet. And Joseph brought before him. He's arraigned on this, you know, the complaint that's levied over the destruction of the press and the charges are essentially dismissed. Right. I mean, you look at the charter and it says that you have the ability to remove a nuisance. We removed a nuisance. Here are all the legal precedents that say that you can remove a libelous press as a nuisance from a town, and they go forward. Now, that's different from a civil court. Now, if William Law and the owners of the novel Exposure wanted to, you know, say, hey, you. You destroyed our press, well, that's a, That's a completely different matter. Now, I realize, you know, as you're listening to this, in today's day and age, you know, someone was publishing something libelous about you, you would go get an injunction against them and they wouldn't be able to publish anymore. You know, this is the 19th century, and things aren't quite so, you know, they aren't quite so set up. But, you know, people, people lose libel lawsuits all the time. Even today. I mean, I, I think the most high profile was several years ago. There was an online writer and blogger who claimed to have evidence essentially, that Melania Trump had been a professional prostitute. And they published it, and they, of course, didn't have evidence of that. And, and the courts ruled that it was libel, and he was ordered to pay damages. So, I mean, libel. I know we say things like, oh, it's free speech. I can say whatever I want within certain reasons, certainly, but at some point, you can't just, you know, I couldn't just start this podcast with, you know, you know, you know how I know Richard Leduc is a car thief? And, you know, that's why I invited him on, because if I let him go, then he'll steal my car. If I have him close, then I can at least see him going for my keys. But. So it is different. As I talked about before, the ideas are different, but they don't think that it's going to be a big deal. They think that, yes, there'll be another and a long line of legal issues that they've had, but it won't be a big deal. Well, the explosion and the demands for real justice, you know, you can't get real justice in Nauvoo. You know, that they, that, that starts to hit the governor's desk pretty quickly, and people are calling for the governor to intervene, which he does. He will essentially write to Joseph and tell him that, you know, being arraigned in the Nauvoo court system is not going to do. You got to go to the county seat of Carthage and be arraigned there. That is, it's a very troubling thing for Joseph and Hyrum. Remember, you have these people that are, they are not shy about the fact that they're saying, we want to destroy the Mormons. And so when Joseph receives this letter, he's bothered for a lot of reasons. First of all, because people aren't happy with a judge's decision is not a reason that someone has to get a new trial. That's not, oh yes, one of the legal precedents is I'm not happy with what the judge decided. Well, that's not a reason for another trial somewhere else. And maybe we'll read from the letter that, that Joseph will write Back to the Governor Ford. This is on June 22nd, so remember the Martyrs on the 27th. On June 22nd, Joseph's going to write back to Governor Ford. And you can, you can see that part of Joseph's argument. I'm only reading part of this. Part of Joseph's argument is we've already been arraigned for this charge. The Constitution says that you can't be put in double jeopardy, right? Can't just keep trying people. That's what the British did, right? In the rare occasions that a British appointed judge, you know, let a colonial who's accused of a crime off, the British would just take him to the next court over and then that judge would do what they wanted and we just keep trying him and trying him, trying him. And then, oh, now we finally got a guilty verdict and now it's over. And so, you know, the, the founders built into the Constitution this idea that you can't be tried twice for the same offense. You know, for all the people who, you know, who really, really, really believe that, that, you know, that O.J. simpson was actually guilty or whatever, it doesn't really matter. He was tried for that, that murder and, and, and he was acquitted. And so the government, even if they found other evidence, they, they no longer have the ability to try for that. Now, of course, he's in jail for other reasons now, but Joe just, he's.

[B]

Out now, I believe.

[A]

Oh, is he, did he get out again? I don't know. I'm not up on it as much. Why don't you check on that for us? I think that's a big part of our podcast. That's the main part. The main part of our podcast. But the point being that Joe's is going to make the argument that you can't just arraign me for the same crime I was already arraigned for, because that's trying me twice. You can't bring me to trial again. And so that's part of what he writes to Governor Ford. The constitution expressly says that no man shall twice be put in jeopardy of life and limb for the same offense. And all you refer to have, since the issue of the habeas corpus, been complied with by the same offense and tried before Daniel H. Wells, justice of the peace of Hancock County. So Daniel H. Wells is a legal justice of the peace of Hancock County. But as Joseph's writing here, he was already arraigned before him, and after a full investigation, he continues, were discharged. So Joseph is saying, look, we've already gone before a judge, and that judge dismissed the charges. But notwithstanding this, we would not hesitate to stand another trial according to your excellency's wishes. Were it not that we are confident our lives would be in danger. We dare not come. Writs we are assured are issued against us in various parts of the county. For what? To drag us from place to place, from court to court, across the creeks and the prairies, till some bloodthirsty villain can find his opportunity to shoot us. Now, what Joseph's saying here is speaking from experience. This is exactly what happened in Missouri. You might wonder why it is that you all hear about Joseph and Liberty jail. But if you're paying close attention to the stories of Joseph when he's first arrested, the story of Joseph standing up and rebuking the guards, that's not in Liberty Jail. That's in Richmond jail, which is where he is first held with Parley Pratt and Hyrum and the others. So why is he in Richmond jail and then he's in Liberty Jail, and then, by the way, he's taken to other arraignments in other courthouses. Why? Because the similar thing is going on. None of the jurisdictions in which these supposed crimes took place have anything other than hearsay evidence. So as Joseph is brought to trial in these places, there's a lot of pontificating, but each of those municipalities is afraid to actually put him on trial because he's going to get acquitted. Even with this corrupt juries you have. I mean, you're not going to convict someone on the basis of, hey, yeah, he told me that he wanted. And this is one of the affidavits, he said that he was going to march an army on the capital of Missouri. And after he took that, he was going to march an army on Washington D.C. and take Washington, D.C. well, that's not exact. I mean, that's not like a really good argument. Right. And so in Missouri, they had been held in jail without ever coming to a trial. They, you know, brought before a judge multiple times, but never coming to a trial over and over and over and over again. And so what Joseph is expressing here to, to Governor Ford is I've played this game before. You know, I've already done that. I've done the game where, oh, I get arraigned here and now I get arraigned here and now I get arraigned here because you just keep pulling me around places until one of these municipalities, one of these jurisdictions feels like they have enough to convict me. And then they will. Right? And really the Missourians were in a terrible position. Right. If Joseph goes to trial and he's acquitted, then what does that mean? It means that all of the murders, all of the assaults, all of the destructions of property, all of the confiscations of property, everything was illegal because you claimed you were doing it to stop Joseph. And he was acquitted. So that's a really big problem. At the same time, you, you can't let him go. Because if you let him go, then once again, what are you saying? Oh, yeah, we didn't have enough evidence to charge him. But you did have enough evidence to murder dozens of people and confiscate hundreds of thousands of acres of property. That makes sense. I mean, you can see the reason why Missouri was in a really tough position. If we try him and he's found not guilty, then we are going to be liable for everything. If we let him go, then that's us admitting that we don't have enough evidence, in which case we're liable for everything. And that's the reason why at least some scholars believe that when Joseph escapes that it's actually a pre planned thing. Right? They're moving him to yet another jail and the guards kind of turn their backs and, you know, they, you know, get on and they run off through the woods. Of course the guards aren't going to say that because that would be the end of everything for them, but that it's a pretty ingenious way for Missouri to get out of the legal bind that they're in so they can just claim Joseph and Hyrum, they're fugitives from justice. They were under indictment in Missouri. They absconded and ran away. So we still are justified in the extermination order and everything else that happened. We just can't bring him to trial because he ran away. And of course, Missouri is going to try to extradite Joseph multiple times in Nauvoo. And so part of what I think you're feeling from some of this emotion in this letter to Joseph is. I mean, that Joseph's writing to Governor Ford is, look, this isn't my first rodeo. It was only six years ago that I was drug all over Missouri. And different jail after different jail after different jail with each little municipality trying to find a way to have enough evidence to actually indict me. Because as powerful as an affidavit is saying, oh, yeah, Joseph Smith told me he was going to try to burn down Missouri, well, that's actually not evidence. Right. That wouldn't be admissible. It can go to being a kind of supporting evidence. I mean, in Missouri, a lot of things probably would have been supported. But there's a difference between hearsay and someone saying that someone was going to do something and that person actually doing it. They're not the same thing.

[B]

So what's Joseph's response then to Governor Ford's claim of being able to protect him if he. If he just comes? Because I can understand from Governor Ford's. From a political perspective, he's just trying to appease.

[A]

Yeah. I just don't want. I mean, Governor Ford's like, we all are as parents essentially. Right. I don't even care.

[B]

I just want quiet.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, but he did this. It's all his fault. I don't even care whose fault it is. I just want this over. And so, you know, Governor Ford. Yeah. Is saying, you know, I promise I'll protect you. But as Joseph responds to him, you know, we dare not come though your excellency promises protection. Yet at the same time, you've expressed fears that you could not control the mob. So it's very interesting. Governor Ford is saying you need to be tried somewhere else because otherwise there's going to be this mob. Mobocratic violence that I won't be able to stop. Joseph's response is, let me get this straight. You're saying you don't have the ability to control the mob violence, but that I should just submit to being tried at the center of mob violence. I mean, in many ways, Joseph's using the governor's own words back on him. If you don't have the ability to control the situation, then you don't have the ability to control the situation until you can write to me and say I've got it under control, but the entire argument of why I need to submit to be tried somewhere else is if I don't, things will get out of control. So, I mean, it's kind of a circular logic at any rate. Joseph says, you know, we dare not come. He says that if you can't control the mob, we are left to the mercy of the merciless, sir, we dare not come. And he underlines that, for our lives would be in danger and we are guilty of no crime. They really don't believe that what they've done is a crime. They're more than ready to pay for the press and the destruction of it if it's. If it's about his press. But the argument that is being made that in fact, it was a riot. Now, while destruction of presses is obviously a dime a dozen, you know, on the American frontier, maintaining civic order is a big deal. And so he. He's charged with a relatively minor charge of riot, or we'd call it probably inciting a riot. Now, they think this is going to be the easiest charge in the world. I mean, this was incredible. And so all the. All the affidavits surrounding the trial leading up to it is. Is how orderly everything was. The city council said that the press should be destroyed. Joseph Smith, as the mayor, ordered the police force to go and destroy the press because that's what it was, a nuisance to the town. But, you know, it's not a riot. It's carrying out a civil duty. Now you can turn around and say, well, you went. You exceeded your civil authority. Well, if that's the case, then that's a civic problem, that's a civil trial and, you know, potentially a type of legal concern, but they think that they're going to be okay. At any rate, the newspapers have talked so much about the violence that's going to be needed, taken in hand, in order to stop the Mormons that Joseph and Hyrum doesn't. They don't feel safe going. And so they make this very fateful decision rather than surrendering themselves to whatever mercy they're going to get. And where are they going to be tried? The governor's telling them to go to Carthage. Now, Carthage is the county seat of Hancock, and we kind of talked a little bit about that last time that it's the county seat, even though the Nauvoo area of Hancock county, you know, is 20 times more populous than Carthage is. So already there were discussions about moving the county seat From Carthage to Nauvoo. Because it's a very weird thing that everyone in Nauvoo has to travel to Carthage to get every single legal document notarized and filed when the majority of people lived in Nauvoo. So as you might imagine, Carthaginians were not exactly. They weren't hugely pro Mormon folks. The Nauvoo directly challenged their localized power in the West. And of course, there's also religious sentiments that come in there and economic sentiments, and there's all kinds of sentiments that factor in. And when people say, well, what is the one thing that caused the violence against Mormons? I mean, it's a lot of things. I mean, if you talk to someone who has angry feelings towards a minority group today or a religious group today, it's usually not just one thing. You'll notice that they've got a whole laundry list of however small complaints against that group that they throw up there. So really, it's a combination of things. There's a lot of things that are going on. At any rate. So Joseph and Hyrum, they make the decision if we go to trial. Even the governor's saying that, yeah, it's going to be really hard to control these mobs. But don't worry, I got this. So they make the decision. Well, we've already been planning to move west. He's had for months now, people exploring different options. They've already sent ambassadors to. To go negotiate with the Republic of Texas, to go, possibly go to Texas, which is its own separate, independent country at this point. They've sent ambassadors to the Cherokee to go negotiate with them on what is unorganized Indian territory. They have planned expeditions to go to the Oregon Territory and to go to Mexico, to go to Alta California, Mexico, to find a place. They're already planning on leaving Nauvoo. Joseph's already made that decision like we talked about last time. And so the idea is, well, maybe Joseph and Hyrum and the others, we'll just get a head start on everybody. We'll just leave. We'll go to Iowa territory, which at the time, Iowa's just a territory. It is an organized territory of the United States, but it's not a state yet. And we'll go to Iowa and we'll just keep heading west. Maybe we'll go be the advance party, but we're not going to surrender ourselves to this show trial. We're going to go to Carthage. You know, I'm sure they'll empanel a whole bunch of Mormons In Carthage for this trial. I mean, it's something that drives their fleeing. So they cross the river. Porter Rockwell rows them across in a leaky boat. Apparently they had to bail water with one of their boots while they were going across the whole time. You got to give the Prophet a better boat. But anyway, they get across and what happens is the governor, you know, has announced his intention to, to come to Carthage. I mean, to come to Nauvoo to, to, to take Joseph himself. And so the residents of Nauvoo, when they realize that Joseph is gone, they panic. They, they are terrified again. None of this happens in a vacuum. Why are they terrified? Because they went through Missouri. And the last time a governor marched on the capital of the Mormons in far west in Missouri with the militia of the state, people were brutalized, people were murdered. It was horrific. And so you can't fault these people too much in Nauvoo for thinking if the governor gets here without Joseph being here, these troops are going to go crazy. They're going to start murdering people, they're going to start killing people. This is going to be exactly what happened before. And so there are multiple messages sent to Joseph across the river urging him to come back. Some of the business leaders who are clearly worried that their businesses will be destroyed by rampaging troops, urge Joseph to come back. But probably the one that has the most influence on Joseph is that Emma herself urges Joseph to come back. And so Joseph, he does. And, you know, I don't know if he said it, but at least reportedly, he said to the effect, if my life is no value to my friends, it's certainly of no value to myself. He and Hyram debate it, they discuss it. According, again, this is third hand. This isn't coming from Hyrum or Joseph, but, you know, Hyrum says, let's go back and God will protect us. And Joseph says, if we go back, we will be butchered. But Hyrum, Joseph says, hyrum, you're the oldest, let you decide. And Hyrum says they should go back. And they do. So they go back to Nauvoo and they prepare to submit themselves. Now as they are preparing to ride to Carthage, they're actually riding outside of town. They, they, they, they're riding by the temple that's, you know, half finished as it's rising up out off the banks of the, the Mississippi there, you know, on the bluff. The order comes from Governor Ford for the Nauvoo militia, the Nauvoo Legion, to surrender all state Arms, because they were an actual organized militia of the state of Illinois. They had state weapons that had been granted them. And always, all throughout this process, the real fear of violence, both from the non Mormons and from Governor Ford, always focused on the Nauvoo Legion. They've got this army of 2,3000 men. You know, if you try to go arrest Joseph, they'll use that army to stop them. You know, I mean, and the, the crazy part about that is you never actually have actual violence coming from the Nauvoo region. You do have actual violence coming from these other, these mobocrats surrounding areas. I mean, it's not Thomas Sharp, the leader of the Warsaw Signal, Warsaw Sentinel newspaper, who is murdered. It's Joseph Smith who's murdered. Right. It's not William Law who's gunned down in the streets. It's Joseph Hyrumsmith. And so for all of the claims of this, oh yes, it's the Nauvoo Legion. That's our real threat. That's your real threat. Because it's the threat you want to see. It's not in actuality what ends up happening. At any rate, Joseph will actually ride back to Nauvoo to make sure that that order is followed. He's trying to be as orderly with this as possible. Okay, we'll follow the order, surrender the state arms, and then he will make his way back to, to Carthage. When they get to Carthage again, I'm not going to cover everything. We, like I said, we'd have an entire, we could do an entire year's worth of podcasts just on what happened surrounding Joseph going to Carthage. They are arraigned under the charge of riot. And you know, like most people that are arraigned for an offense, you can then be granted bail. And they are, they're granted bail. And it's an incredibly high bail. I mean, it's, it's ridiculous for the charge, which is essentially like a misdemeanor in our terminology today. But they think that they're going to, you know, we've been arraigned, we've been bailed out, and now we're going to go back home to Nauvoo and wait for our trial date. That's how trials work. You get bailed out because you're innocent until proven guilty. Well, almost immediately upon being bailed out, before they're actually able to leave Carthage, they are rearrested, this time on the charge of treason. And this stems from Joseph Jackson and other apostates claiming that Joseph had actually ordered the Nauvoo Legion to destroy the Expositor and the Nauvoo Legion because it's a state militia, can't be called out without the governor's consent. And therefore when Joseph called them out, he actually committed treason against the state of Illinois. Now look, there's, we have history of many states in the Union at the time, lots of different militia leaders that you know, were this something to be adjudicated, it wasn't going to end up in someone, you know, being executed for the charge of treason. But treason carried with it something very special. And that is, it was a non bailable offense. So these guys thought they were going to go to Carthage, it would be rough and yes, people would be spitting on them and jeering them and oh there's Joe Smith, the Mormon prophet, you know, all that kind of garbage. They would be arraigned and then they would be able to safely go back home to Nauvoo. In actuality, they're arraigned, they're bailed out and then they're immediately rearrested on a non bailable charge. And that's when, you know, that's when the warning bells really start to sound because that means they're not going to be able to go home to Nauvoo. They're going to have to stay in Carthage until their trial surrounded by these people who hate them and relying on what ends up being the flimsiest of all pledges of Governor Ford to protect them. So after, after that I think the events are a little bit more familiar to people but we'll just kind of go over some of them.

[B]

So then leading up to the day of the martyrdom, what do you feel kind of best sets the stage and kind of best describes what, what happens there?

[A]

You know, there we have, we have a lot of explanations of the martyrdom. Obviously the one that I think most people are most familiar with is Doctrine and Covenant Section 135 because it describes some of the events of that day. And Willard Richards of course gives multiple accounts. The history of the Church gives a very detailed account. So if you want to read the history of the church, but in 1854 Willard Richards dies. And with Willard Richards death he is the, you know, the last person that was actually with Joseph and Hyrum when all of this happened was, was John Taylor. He's the last living witness who was there with them at the end. And Wilford Woodruff, who's actually the church historian, you know, I think prevails upon John Taylor to To really write out, not just by, you know, by talk, but write out what happened. And John Taylor will produce multiple written accounts. He'll obviously give many verbal accounts, but he'll create a written account that's very detailed that I think I want to share with you. Now. It's very long, so I'm not reading the entire thing to everybody, but I will read some of it to you because I think it kind of helps you understand too, the way that John Taylor remembers this, the way he sees it, the things that he focuses on. And we'll talk about some of the things he talks about in there. So I guess I should. Before I go right to this, I should say that of course, Joseph and the others really protest the fact that they thought they were surrendering themselves to be tried on a minor charge that they could be bailed out for. And then they're re arrested on a death sentence charge that you can't be bailed out for. And so they, of course, appeal to the governor saying, what's going on? I mean, this is. You said this is what was going on, and yet we're doing this. And of course, then the governor's like, oh, I. I couldn't possibly intervene in a legal matter. I mean, what. How. As the governor, how could I? I mean, which is ridiculous, of course, because the only reason Joseph's in Carthage is because the governor has intervened in a local legal matter. It's not like the state supreme court of Illinois ordered Joseph Smith to stand trial in Carthage. Right. So we're already outside of the legal bounds of the governor, essentially. And so they really see this as total treachery, a breaking of the promise. So in this account, you know, as many of you know, there are certainly more people that are there with them. You know, Stephen Markham is there in jail with them now. Stephen Markham, there's a good reason why. He's one of those people that was arraigned earlier. He's the chief of the Nauvoo police force. So you could see why, if he's the one who actually ordered the destruction of the press while he's being arraigned, but he's not being arraigned on treason charges because that would have been Joseph. It's just Joseph and Hyrum that are being charged for that. John Fulmer, Dan Jones, they're also there with them. And they have multiple visitors. John Smith, which is Joe Smith's uncle, Hiram Kimball, Cyrus Wheelock. And then of course, they have lawyers coming. And this whole time that they're there These couple of days before the murders, they're trying to gather legal evidence. I mean, they think that this should be pretty easy to do. Again, how do we prove that it wasn't a riot? Well, we asked the police force, was this a riot? And they say, no, we did what we were ordered to do, and it's not a riot. And then, same thing with treason. Hi, leaders of the Nauvoo Legion. Were you ordered to do this? No. Okay, well, then I guess. I guess that it's not treason, right? I mean, obviously there's more nuances to that. And, you know, if you're a legal scholar of this, you must be sitting there, you know, pulling your hair out, saying, oh, there's like 75 other. I know there's lots of other sources, but I'm just trying to get down to a. You know, just trying to get down to a little, you know, a little two part podcast. @ any rate, let me quote to you from part of John Taylor's. I'll read you from part of John Taylor's account. They're having different conversations about things. Their religious hopes, their deliverance. What kind of testimony will be required to deliver them? During one of these conversations, Dr. Richards remarked, Brother Joseph, it is necessary that you die in this matter. And if they will take me in your stead, I will suffer it for you. At another time, when conversing about deliverance, I said, brother Joseph, if you will permit it and say the word, I will have you out of this prison in five hours if the jail has to come down to do it. My idea was to go to Nauvoo and collect a force sufficient as I considered the whole concern a legal farce and a flagrant outrage upon our liberty and our rights. Brother Joseph refused. So, John Taylor, as far as he was concerned, the moment you pulled the bait and switch on why we were being arrested and then kept us here in Carthage, the moment that happened, you broke your promise. This is all illegal. And if we have to use force to break out, it doesn't matter, because this is all illegal. John Taylor really feels like that. And really one of the things that is just a reality. The Nauvoo Legion is larger than the state militia of Illinois. If Joseph wants to, he can level western Illinois. It wouldn't even be close. I mean, yes, Chicago has similar population, and yes, the entire state is much more populated than Nauvoo, but Nauvoo has a very large localized force. I mean, the troops that the governor brings to arrest Joseph wouldn't be Sufficient were the Nauvoo Legion turned out in force. So, you know, the reality, Joseph is actually not using the power that he actually has to defend himself.

[B]

This. This seems like it's something that's like an irritant or frustrating to you, where that's the thing that's being used as the reason why we need to do this. And yet it's the very thing that Joseph and Saints don't use in any way.

[A]

Yeah. And, you know, it's. It's something that actually is. It is expanded out. Even Joseph is murder, even after Joseph was murdered, all throughout the remainder of 1844 and into 1845, the great fear of everyone in the state is, oh, the Mormons and all the violence they're going to enact. But what's the actual violence that's being enacted? The actual violence is the burning down of Mormon settlements, the murder of Mormon people. I mean, it's this kind of weird boogeyman that. Oh, yeah, well, those Mormons, they could be doing this. Well, you are killing them right. Right now. Actually, you're the one calling for their extermination. You don't hear Mormons riding in the Nauvoo. You know, they're not riding in the times and seasons. We are going to level the rest of Hancock County. But you certainly have Warsaw saying that about Nauvoo. You certainly have, you know, Carthaginians and others in the state saying, oh, yeah, they need to be driven from the state. So it really is disproportionate. And that's how it is when it's. When it's a hated minority group truth, you don't need evidence because you already know that they're a problem. And so it allows people to say and do things that ordinarily wouldn't be considered okay. Anyway, you can see that John Taylor, at least as he's recalling this, it's one of the things that makes him mad. He knows there's a force sufficient to save Joseph, and Joseph is not willing to use that force extra. So Joseph's not willing to do the very thing that he's being accused of doing, even though if he were to do it now, call out the Nauvoo Legion, it would have saved him. So you can see why John Taylor would be bitter about that. Oh, yeah, we're being held. You know, we need to be held because we supposedly called out the Nauvoo Legion, which if we had, we would be protected right now and not in the jail and getting shot and murdered. So you can. John Taylor's got a lot of bitterness. In fact, he will hold some bitterness all throughout his life because they murdered his prophet right in front of him and they murdered the co prophet, Hyrum Smith right in front of him. Hundreds of people, hundreds of witnesses, no convictions, right? It is, it is. To John Taylor, it is an example of the failure of American democracy. It is the utter refusal to grant to have an equal playing field under the law, that if you're a hated minority group, you don't get equality. All you get is whatever the majority deems to, whatever scrap they deem to throw at you.

[B]

So, Gary, you just said something that I think is very interesting. I think most Latter Day Saints would view themselves as being very patriotic. I think other people would even view Latter Day Saints as being very patriotic toward the United States. And so what you're saying is, at least in this particular time, that there is tremendous anger.

[A]

Yeah, it's a pretty big difference between today and then in that regard. I mean, in our last podcast, we already talked about the fact that Joseph had made the decision that they needed to leave the United States in order to be able to get justice. And that seems so foreign to an American who thinks, no, this is the land of liberty and justice. Joseph Smith had come to the conclusion, not for us, it's not. Yeah, it's the land of liberty and justice. If you happen to be a Protestant, white male, evangelical, then it's incredible.

[B]

Right?

[A]

But if you're outside of that realm, even if they are, as most Latter Day Saints are certainly white and hailing from New England, they are outside of what is religiously acceptable. And if you're outside of what is religiously acceptable, then you can be persecuted the way that they are. I mean, you think about the number of people that were assaulted and murdered in Missouri, and nobody, nobody is charged with that. Nobody. You, you've got a man putting a gun to a head to a wounded 10 year old and blowing his head off with dozens of witnesses. Is that man in jail? Is he going before a firing squad? Nope. Not even a crime. It's not even a crime. So when Joseph is murdered, what it does is it takes this latent, the feeling that the Latter Day Saints have that the Constitution's inspired by God. But boy, these corrupt people running the Constitution, they certainly aren't. It takes that feeling and it says, you know, it's that with Augusto, Joseph was telling us we had to get out of this country because we couldn't get justice. And now he's Dead. Why? Because his country can't give him justice. We've really got to get out. And so that's their plan. They got to get out. And so they have this feeling that is, you know, I realized that this podcast is going to come out the Fourth of July weekend on the Fourth of July weekend, you know, so happy Fourth of July. But it might surprise you that in 1845, so in the next Fourth of July, after all this happened, this Latter Day Saints don't celebrate Fourth of July. So as many flags as you see waving as you go down, you know, Provo Main street, as many as, as patriotic as people are today, in 1845, the saints make a deliberate decision to protest celebrating the Fourth of July. Now in 1841, they celebrated like crazy. I mean, when they had their Nauvoo Charter and Joseph was out there and he marched the Nauvoo Legion around and they fired a cannon off and it was, you know, a spectacle so great that even the local antagonistic newspaper people were like, wow, these, these Mormons, they, they love them some. They, they, they love this country, you know, that, that, you know, they, they love celebrating. I mean, it, it, it. So they certainly were patriotic and most of them were. I mean, you know, many were British at this point, but most were still, you know, Americans or become. And so they loved those ideals. They certainly had revelations that said that the Constitution was inspired by God. They believed that they operated on it, but in practice, the people executing those laws certainly weren't doing that. And when Joseph talked about, I mean, in a future podcast, we'll talk about the Council of 50 and Joseph Smith's plan to go create a new kingdom of God on Earth. One of the things that Joseph Smith says is the deficiency of the American Constitution is that it lacks the requirement that would require governmental leaders to support minorities and their rights. Now some of that gets remedied later. Right after the American Civil War, you're going to get the 13th, 14th and 15th amendment. But that's not something that in Joseph's time, it was easy for people to kind of skate past. Oh, these are your rights that are given you by God. Well, will you protect me? And then no. Oh, then it's a right that no one will protect. Is not. Thank you so much for telling me I have the right to freedom as I'm being incarcerated on a double jeopardy charge. But in 1845, the saints are so despondent, they have been treated so badly, and now mob violence is really raging its ugly head that they actually make the decision to not celebrate the fourth of July. And like I said, they'd always celebrated it big time before 1845. Silent. And you know what happens? The surrounding anti Mormon communities all publish in their newspapers. Oh, we see now. You know, they. No Fourth of July parties in Nauvoo. I see. You know, we knew the Mormons were traitors. And you can see the problem again. When you are a despised minority group, anything you do is just taken as further evidence of your disloyalty. So if we go and we celebrate the 4th of July, you'll turn around and say, well, what's wrong with the country? You guys are celebrating it saying that it's awesome. If we protest the 4th of July, you turn around and say, oh, we knew that you were traitors. There's no way to win the argument is what I'm saying. If you act like there's nothing wrong, then nothing changes. If you demonstrate by protesting the fourth of July, well, then I always knew you were a traitor. And it seemed like there was nothing they could do. And there's actually a letter that a young Latter Day Saint woman in Nauvoo wrote to her parents about boycotting the fourth of July. She wrote to her parents back in Massachusetts. She said, the Fourth of July has just passed. I suppose there, there were balls and tea parties and the like all out in the east, but here there was nothing of that kind. The Mormons think the liberty and independence of the United States has been too long trampled on to be celebrated. They made this conscious decision to say, we're not going to celebrate the freedoms this country grants us while you are in the process of driving us violently out of the country. Yeah, we'll celebrate that later. Thanks. It's not that they still didn't love the idea. She wasn't the only one that there, there was others that, that felt the same way that, that the United States had turned their back on them and that because the United States had turned their back, that that's why they were going to leave and go create their own kingdom. Now we, again, because we're historians doing, you know, hindsight's 20 20. They don't know that they're going to move into the middle of Mexico only to have that become part of the United States right after they get there. They can't foresee that. So they really believe that they are going to leave and go somewhere else. And as Orson Pratt will write angrily in the Times and seasons as they are leaving the United States, that we build a fond Farewell to these states. We can't wait to get out. Basically he's saying sarcastically, we got to go somewhere else. I'd rather be anywhere than in the United States is what Orson Pratt is saying.

[B]

So I know we want to get back here actually to the main purpose. But this is interesting to me because obviously so much of the creation of America allows for even the restoration to even occur. When is it? Because like I said, Latter Day Saints now are incredibly patriotic. Love the country. When does this shift begin to come back?

[A]

Well, not throughout the rest of the 19th century, because throughout the rest of the 19th century. So all throughout Joseph Smith's life, the federal government was a disappointment to him because he kept appealing and appealing and appealing for them to intervene and to help the Mormons in their. The persecution that was being heaped upon them at a local and a state level. Right. Missouri confiscated all the Mormons land, you know, not the federal government. Right, but the federal government refused to do anything about it. Well, as the Saints are leaving Nauvoo, there's going to be a transition to where the Saints believe that the federal government is now not just a really weak and, you know, feckless operator, but they're actually actively persecuting them. And you see this with the arguments for, and then the eventual passages of anti Mormon laws from the federal government. And you know, I mean, in, in the 1850s, Congress is going to debate purchasing tens of thousands of copies of the Book of Mormon and distributing them all over the country. With the idea being as long as anyone, you know, the only reason anyone becomes a Mormon is they've never really read this. If they read this, then they wouldn't become a Mormon. I can only imagine Brigham Young saying like, no, don't do that. Please don't buy tens of thousands of copies and give them to people. I mean, that's being debated in our Congress. Congress is continually debating laws. It's eventually going to. Going to. It's going to focus on polygamy and plural marriage, because that's just the easiest thing to focus on. But even things like the Homestead act are by its sponsors, designed to destroy Mormons by flooding out the Mormons in the west with proper Christian civilization. So all throughout the 19th century, it's just increasing antagonism with the federal government. And it's not until after the first Manifesto and after Utah becomes a state that those tensions are going to lessen somewhat. There's still a lot of animosity there. But like with most immigrant groups, even though I know the latter Day Saints are per se, an immigrant group, but they're this minority group, this ethnic group. There's some assimilation that occurs over time. In the earliest days of the Irish immigration, Right. There wasn't a whole lot of love for the United States among these Irish men and women that were being persecuted so badly in the United States. Well, now you find a whole bunch of people with the name o' Maui who are waving an American flag around. Right. I mean, so assimilation is something that occurs just by the fact of living in a country over the course of time. So that's part of it. Then. The other part of it is, as the 20th century goes on, not only do you have this trajectory of becoming more American, eventually the greatest enemy of the United States and the greatest enemy of the Church become the same thing. And that's with international communism. Right. Not only do the first and Second World War more fully integrate Latter Day Saints into the country because everyone's fighting it, but in the Cold War, everywhere that becomes a communist nation is a place that the Latter Day Saints can no longer proselyte. Communism is godless, Communism is atheist, and communism stopping proselyting. And who's the great bulwark against communism? Well, the United States. And so you can see how much more easily that's going to merge, because the greatest threat to the spreading of the gospel is international communism. That's how they see it. And the greatest threat to international communism is the United States. And so they really become symbolic to where being a patriotic Latter Day Saint is, is, is. They're one and the same thing. If I'm a good Latter Day Saint, of course I'm pro American because America's standing against international Communism. We could talk a lot more about that. But let me go back to our discussion of John Taylor's account. So he talks about this conversation with Willard Richards. Then he's going to talk about something that probably people know a lot less about, and that is, you might have heard that Joseph had a gun in Carthage jail. And so let's talk a little bit about how he had that gun. Now, sometimes people will say, oh, yeah, it's a total secret. Yeah, the church is hiding the fact that he had a gun in Carthage jail. Yes, we're hiding it in the history of the church. You can read the history of the church. It's there. I mean, yes, it's not in, you know, a lesson. It's not in, like, your seat, you know, it's not in your sunbeam. Lesson on the martyrdom. Only because you're Worried the little kids will try to reenact it. But it is certainly well known that Joseph had a gun in Carthage jail. Elder Cyrus. This is back to John Taylor. Elder Cyrus Wheelock came in to see us and as he was leaving he drew a small pistol, a six shooter from his pocket. Remarking at that time, would any of you like to have this? Brother Joseph immediately replied, yes, give it to me. He took the pistol and he put it in his pantaloon pocket. The pistol was a six shooting revolver. Valance Patney talks all about. In fact John Taylor's like, it's actually my gun. I, I'd given it to Cyrus Wheelock for him to protect himself. And here comes Cyrus. Does anyone want this gun? John, that's my gun. But Joseph Smith now has it anyway. He goes on to talk about how over the course of the remainder of the day various different people go out and they're not allowed to return back. So Cyrus Willock is one of those people. He was there with him. He leaves and he's not allowed to come back. That morning of June 27th the governor who has pledged the protection of Joseph. Oh, I'll protect you. He decides that the real threat is the Nauvoo legion in Nauvoo. So he leaves Carthage, he takes some of his troops with him and he leaves and apparently disbands some of the other militia around him. And so now there's a really ominous feeling inside of the jail. The governor who was supposedly there to protect them is, is gone. And now what now? Now who's going to protect us? The report of the governor, this is John Taylor again having gone to Nau without taking the prisoners along with him again. Great point, John Taylor. If you need to go to Nauvoo so badly, why don't you take Joseph with you in tow and put him in a cage as you're going so that he's with you and protect you. No, you leave him in Carthage. Which I think goes to show just how poorly Thomas Ford judged the situation. He assumed that the Latter Day Saints were exaggerating about every threat that was facing them. And you know, he assumed incorrectly. The report of the governor having gone to Nauvoo without taking the prisoners with him caused very unpleasant feelings as we were apprised that we were now under the tender mercies of the Carthage Greys, the local militia there in Carthage, a company that was strictly mobocratic and whom we knew to be our most deadly enemies. And their captain, Esquire Smith was a most unprincipled villain. Besides this, all the mob forces comprising the governor's troops were dismissed, with the exception of one or two companies which the governor took with him to Nauvoo. The greater part of the mob was liberated, and the remainder was now our guard. We looked upon it not only as a breach of faith on the part of the governor, but also as an indication of his desire to. To insult us, if nothing more, by leaving us in the proximity of such men. Colonel Marcum then went out, and he was also prevented from returning. He was very angry at this, but the mob paid no attention to him. They drove him out of town at the point of a bayonet and threatened to shoot him if he returned. He went, I'm informed, to Nauvoo for the purpose of raising a company of men for our protection. Brother Folmer went to Nauvoo after witnesses. It's my opinion that Brother Willock did also. Sometime after dinner, we sent for some wine. Now, remember, this is John Taylor writing about this in 1854, so ten years after the martyrdom. Already, though, in Utah, there had been attempts. And I'm sure we'll do a podcast at some point in the future on the Word of Wisdom, and we'll talk about that. But for Latter Day Saints today, the Word of Wisdom is an abstinence document. It's a document in which you don't, you know, you don't smoke at all, you don't drink at all, you don't drink coffee at all. And when it was first received, it was, as the scripture says, neither by commandment nor by constraint. And the general idea, at least of Latter Day Saints at the time was, it's wrong to get drunk, but it's not wrong to occasionally drink. It's wrong to drink coffee all day long, but it's not wrong to drink coffee at all, right? And again, there's a lot of nuances. We could talk about that. But this is sometimes used by antagonists of our faith who will say, oh, you know, Joseph Smith was drunk in garbage jail, right? Well, first of all, right, six men aren't getting drunk on one bottle of wine. You know, it take, you know, Willard Richards is a large guy, too. I mean, he probably needs a couple bottle of wine. But the, the reality is people don't know that that's the case. And so already in Utah, as people told the story of the martyrdom, they did what Mormons love to do, and that is try to make the past equal your present by inventing a story, right? So Latter Day Saints today do that all the time? Well, we're not allowed to drink at all. Oh, yeah. So that means that Joseph Smith only drank grape juice. Well, no, today we're not allowed to drink at all. That doesn't mean. That's what happened in the past. And so apparently what people were saying in Utah was, oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, they had wine in Carthage, but it was like, because they had the sacrament there, that's why. Because In Utah in 1854, it was still fine to use alcoholic wine in the sacrament. They used wine in the sacrament all the way up until 1900 in the church. Right. So. So you can already see people attempting to justify as they're trying to live the word of wisdom more rigorously in Utah. Why was Joseph drinking in Carthage jail? Oh, because it was the sacrament. And you can tell how mad John Taylor is at this. He is angry that this is because. What are you suggesting? That if it wasn't the sacrament, that we were doing something wrong? Well, we weren't doing anything wrong. Right. That's the point he wants to make. So sometime after dinner, we sat for some wine. It's been reported by some, but this was taken as a sacrament. It was no such thing. Our spirits were generally dull and heavy and it was sent to revive us. In other words, they drank for the same reason that everyone drinks. We all drank of the wine and gave some of it to one or two of our prison guards. We all felt unusually dull and languid, with remarkable depression of spirits. In consequence of those feelings, I sang the following song that had lately been introduced to Nauvoo entitled A Poor Wayfaring man of Grief. And then he lists off all the verses. You know, there's the seven verses of it. The part, I think, that was so prescient was the portion that talked about in prison. I saw him next condemned to meet a traitor's doom at morn the tide of wine tongues I stemmed and honored him mid shame and scorn My friendship's utmost zeal to try. He asked if I for him would die. The flesh was weak, my blood ran chill but the free spirit cried, I will. These men were actually facing this, you know, as this. The clouds are kind of gathering blackness as John Taylor describes as. You know, the tune it is. It's a melancholy tune. It is not a. You know, it's not sung with vigor as some hymns are. John Taylor says the song is pathetic and the tune quite plaintive. And it was very much in accordance with our feelings at the time. For our spirits were all depressed and dull and gloomy and surcharged with indefinite, ominous forebodings. After a lapse of some time, Brother Hyrum requested me to sing that song again. I replied, brother Hyrum, I do not feel like singing. And he remarked, oh, never mind. Commence singing and you'll get the spirit of it. At his request, I sang the song again. Soon afterwards I was sitting at the front of the windows of the jail when I saw a number of men with painted faces coming around the corner of the jail and heading towards the stairs. The other brethren had seen the same thing. For as I went to the door, I found Brother Hyrum Smith and Dr. Richards already leaning against it. They both pressed against the door with their shoulders to prevent it from being open, as the lock and latch were completely useless. While in this position, the mob who had come up the stairs and strove to open the door open probably thought that it was locked and fired a ball through the keyhole. At this, Dr. Richards and Hiram, Brother Hyrum leapt back from the door with their faces towards it. Almost instantly another ball passed through the panel of the door and struck Brother Hyrum on the left side of the nose, entering his face and head simultaneously. The same instant, another ball from outside enter his back, passing through his body and striking his watch. Immediately when the ball struck him, he fell flat on his back, crying as he fell. I am a dead man. He never moved. Afterwards, I shall never forget the feeling of deep sympathy and regard manifested in the countenance of Brother Joseph as he drew nigh to Hyrum and leaning over him, exclaimed, oh, my poor dear Brother Hyrum. He, however, instantly arose with a firm, quick step and and a determined expression of countenance approached the door and pulling the six shooter left by Brother Wheelock from his pocket, he opened the door slightly and snapped the pistol six times. Only three of the barrels, however, were discharged. As soon as he had discharged it, he stepped back and I immediately took his place beside the door whilst he occupied the one that I had done while he was shooting. Brother Richard this time had a naughty walking stick in his hands belonging to me, and stood next to Brother Joseph a little further from the door in an oblique direction, apparently to avoid the rake of fire from the door. The firing of Brother Joseph made our assailants pause for a moment. Very soon after, however, they pushed the door open distance, some distance open, and protruded and discharged their guns into the room. And I parried them off with my stick, giving another direction to the ball. So one of the great questions that you might ask about the martyrdom is how does anybody survive? Right. There's four men in this room. You can tell that the plan of the, of the mob is to break into the room and kill them. What's the easiest way to kill four people trapped in a room in a two story building? Go into the room and shoot them. That's the easiest way to do it and it should be pretty easy. The whole reason why they shoot through the lock of the door is they think the door's locked. It's not locked, it's just Willard Richards is pushed up against it. And so they try to open the door and the door opens in, it doesn't move at all. So they think they've got this door locked and so they try to shoot. They shoot through the lock to break the lock. The idea is shattering the lock. So now there's no bolt holding the door anymore. So if your plan is to get into the room and your plan is to get into the room so much that you shoot through the lock to do it, why don't they come into the room? Well, that's because as soon as they start shooting through the door, as soon as Hiram said, I don't know what these guys thought was going to happen in the moment this all, as Willard Richard said, it was two minutes in jail that all of this transpired. They might have thought maybe this is just another tarring and feathering. Maybe this is just another, you know, they're going to come beat us up. Maybe this is just another spit on us, attack us, you know, hit us with a rifle. But, but at that moment when that ball passes through that door and hits the assistant president of the church in the nose, Hyrum Smith, the patriarch of the church, and kills him, it is instantly clear to everyone in the room what the attention intention of that mob is. And Joseph goes to the door and blindly points the gun out, out the door and, and shoots. And because Joseph does that now again, antagonist will be like, oh, Joseph didn't go like a lamb to the slaughter. He, he had a gun, he shot the gun. So, so, so yeah, he, he wasn't lamb. It was a gun battle. The fact that Joseph had a gun in Carthage jail saves Willard Richards and John Taylor's life. Because as John Taylor expresses here, and he will express it multiple times, so Willard Richards, because of that, they never actually come into the room because while they are a bunch of murdering cowards who are more than willing to try to take someone to life. They aren't willing to risk their own life to do it. So instead of coming into the room, which was obviously the plan, they now know someone in there has a gun. Does someone else have a gun? Are they reloading the gun that they have? I'm not going to be the first one through that door. So instead of coming through the door, what do they do? They put their guns around the door jamb and they start blindly firing into the room, which is the reason why they can shoot so many times and hit almost nothing, because they're not aiming. They're just blindly firing with their guns around the door because they're afraid if they come out from behind the wall, they're going to be shot and they're not willing to get shot. So they. They stay out. You have both John Taylor and Lord Richards using their. Their canes and walking sticks to hit the rifles, which you can do. Again, very difficult to knock a gun away when the person's standing right in front of you. But if they're just blindly putting the gun around the door, it's pretty easy to hit their rifle butts up and down to try to give a different direction to the shots. As John Taylor talks about it was back to his account. It certainly was a terrible scene. Streams of fire as thick as my arm passed by me as these men fire. And unarmed as we were, it looked like certain death. I remember feeling as though my time had come, but I do not know when in any critical position I was any more calm, unruffled and energetic. It was certainly far from pleasant to be near the muzzles of those firearms as they belched forth their liquid flame and deadly balls. While I was engaged in parrying the guns, Brother Joseph said, that's right, Brother Taylor, parry them off as well as you can. Those were the last words I ever heard him speak on earth. Every moment the crowd at the door became more dense as they were unquestionably pushed upon by those in the rear. Ascending the stairs until the whole entrance of the door was literally crowded with muskets and rifles and the swearing, shouting and demonical expressions of those outside the door and on the stairs. And the firing of guns mingled with their horrid oaths and execrations made it look like pandemonium had been let loose and was indeed a fit representation of the horrid deed in which they were engaged. After parrying the guns for some time, which protruded thicker and further into the room, and seeing no hope of escape or protection there, as we were now Unarmed. It occurred to me we might have some friend outside and that there might be some chance of escape, but here there seemed to be none. I expected them at every moment to just rush into the room, and nothing but their extreme cowardice kept them out. He goes on to talk about how the window in the room was open because it was such a hot day. And he. He. The thought had come to him that he would maybe, even though they're on the second floor, I might break an arm, I might break a leg jumping out the window. But at least there's some chance of. There's at least some chance out there. And like you said, here there was none. The problem is the window in. In that cell is almost directly in that room. It's almost directly in front of where the door is. And so at trying to go for the window, you actually pass in front of the door. As he passes in front of the door trying to get to the window, he's going to be shot multiple times. And he talks about that in his account that as I reached the window and I was on the point of leaping out, I was struck from a ball by the door about midway through my thigh, which struck the bone and flattened out to the size of almost a quarter dollar, and then pass through the fleshy part to within about a half inch of the outside. So it gets almost shot all the way through his thigh. He falls on the windowsill and cries out, I'm shot. He then begins to feel himself falling out of the window with this wound. And then miraculously, instead of falling out, he falls back in, which he would later credit to the idea of a bullet striking his pocket watch and knocking him back into the room. Forensic analysis on that today and historical analysis suggests that in actuality, his pocket watch was. Was probably smashed when he hit the windowsill because he hit it so hard as he. As he fell. He says he dropped as soon as he was shot. And that really, it is some miraculous force that kind of pulls him back, back inside. So he talks about, you know, he falls on the ground and eventually feels like he can move again. As soon as I felt the power of motion return, I crawled under the bed, which was in the corner of the room, not far from the window where I received my wound. While on my way under the bed. I was wounded in three other places. One ball entered a little below the left knee and was never extracted. I want you to think about that for a minute. John Taylor is going to have some bitterness towards both the United States and certainly towards the people who murdered Joseph. And throughout the remainder of his life, he has a cane because he has a bullet in the back of his knee from Carthage jail. I mean, it was never extracted. At least by 1854, ten years later, it was not extracted. Another, under the forepart of my left arm, a little above the wrist and passed down the joint and lodged in the fleshy part of my hand. About midway into my hand, another struck the fleshy part of my left hip and tore away the flesh as large as my hand, dashing the mangled fragments of flesh and blood against the wall. It would seem that immediately after my attempt to leap from the window, Joseph also did the same thing, of which circumstance I have no knowledge, only from information. The first thing that I noticed was a cry went out that he had leapt from the window. A cessation of firing followed, and the mob rushed downstairs and Dr. Richards went to the window. Immediately afterwards, I saw the doctor going towards the jail door, as there was an iron door at the head of the stairs adjoining our door, which led to the cells for criminals. If you've been to Carthage jail, in the upper story of Carthage jail, there's a bedroom and there is also an actual jail cell with bars. Well, these men were being kept actually in the bedroom. It kind of shows you how little fear the jailer had from them. You know, here they are, you know, tried for treason and they're liable of being executed, but the jailer is, you know, doesn't care if they hang out with his family, essentially. So, I mean, it kind of gives you an idea of where he was at. But so John Taylor thinks that he, you know, maybe he's going to that cell to hide, you know, that they've. Obviously, they know they're in the bedroom, but the mob, as soon as they hear that Joseph is out of the window, they rush back down the stairs and. And. And so these men don't know what's going to happen yet. Well, of course they're going to go outside, you know, see what goes on with Joseph, and they're going to come back up. I said to him, so this is John Taylor speaking to Willard Richards. Stop, doctor. Take me along. He proceeded to the door and opened it and returned and dragged me to the small cell prepared for criminals. Brother Richards was very much troubled and exclaimed, oh, brother Taylor, is it possible that they have killed both brother Hyrum and Joseph? It cannot surely be. And yet I saw them shoot him. And elevating his hands two or three times, he exclaimed, o Lord, my God, spare Thy servants. He then said, brother Taylor, this is a terrible event. He dragged me further into the cell and taking an old, filthy mattress, he covered me with it and said, that may hide you, and you may yet live to tell the tale, but I expect that they will kill me in a few moments. While lying in this position, I suffered the most excruciating pain. Soon afterwards, Dr. Richards came to me and informed me that the mob had precipitously fled and at the same time confirming my worst fears that Joseph was assuredly dead. I felt a dull, lonely, sickening sensation at the news when I reflected that our noble chieftain, the prophet of the living God, had fallen, that I'd seen his brother in the cold embrace of death. It seemed as though there was an open void or vacuum in the great field of human existence to me, a dark and gloomy chasm in the kingdom, and that we were left alone. Oh, how lonely was that feeling. How cold and barren and desolate. In the midst of difficulties, Joseph always was the first in motion in critical position. His counsel was always sought as our prophet Joseph approached our God and obtained for us his will. But now our prophet, our counselor, our general, our leader, was gone. And amid the fiery ordeal that we then had to pass through, we were left alone, without his aid as our future guide for things spiritual or temporal, and for all things pertaining to this world or the next, he had spoken for the last time on earth. These reflections and thousand others flashed upon my mind. I thought, why must the good perish and the virtuous be destroyed? Why must God's nobility, the salt of the earth, the most exalted of the human family, the most perfect types of all excellence, fall victim to the cruel, fiendish hate of incarnate devils? John Taylor asks a question that essentially all of us ask. Why does it seem that in this world horrible things happen to the best of people? Why is it that good people suffer? You might even ask yourself, why? Why do I suffer? I think that that's one of the things that we come to understand in our sojourn on immortality, that this is a veil of tears in the world. You will have tribulations, the Lord said. And John Taylor reflects on this. There are wicked people all over this world, and yet here are the good, these two great men who are being murdered, he goes on to say. Soon afterward, I was taken to the head of the stairs, and I laid there where I had a full view of our beloved and now murdered brother Hyrum. There he lay as I had left him. He had not moved a limb. He lay placid and calm, a monument of greatness even in death. But his noble spirit had left that poor tenement and was gone to dwell in regions more congenial to his exalted nature. Poor Hyrum. He was a great and a good man, and my soul was cemented to his. And if there was an exemplary, honest and virtuous man, an embodiment of all that is noble in the human form, Hyrum Smith was its representative. Several years after the martyrdom, in fact, at the same time of the anniversary of the martyrdom, in 1854, there was a ceremony held in Utah and multiple speakers talked about the murder of Joseph and Hyrum Smith and what the prophet and Hyrum had done for us. The reality is, if you are a member of the church, you might wonder, why do we spend so much time testifying of Joseph Smith? Why do we talk about Joseph Smith all the time? Why does Joseph Smith matter so much? Because everything that we believe that matters comes from the revelations Joseph Smith received from the words that he translated from the gold plates, from the revelations he received from God about reorganizing the church from temple covenants and work for the dead, to knowing that you have a pre existent life and that you are an eternal being with a heavenly mother as well as a heavenly father. All of it comes from the prophet Joseph. We absolutely believe that Jesus is the Christ and Jesus is our Savior. But we believe it because Joseph Smith saw and talked to him. So at this meeting, John Taylor bore his testimony. And I won't read all of it, but I'll read some of it. And as I read it, I want you to think about this. John Taylor is not just an Internet troll. He isn't just someone saying that this is something that matters. John Taylor was with Joseph when Joseph was murdered. John Taylor walked with a limp for the rest of his life because he believed Joseph Smith was a prophet. John Taylor knew Joseph personally. And so I realized that, look, in our lives, we always have people who really think they know. And they want to take the time to pull us aside and say, if only you knew about Joseph Smith what I knew about Joseph Smith, then you wouldn't believe. Well, I challenge any of them. None of them, however wonderfully much they think they know, know Joseph Smith the way John Taylor knew Joseph Smith. So as he bears his testimony to you here, I want you to think about that. His testimony of Joseph as a personal one is different than whatever person thinks that they've uncovered about Joseph Smith that they want to share with you on their YouTube channel. Because none of them will know Joseph the way that John Taylor did. I was blessed. John Taylor begins to be associated with Brother Joseph Smith. As President Young said he knew him, so did I. I've been with him under all kinds of circumstances. When thick clouds of darkness gathered around and earthquakes seemed to bell and threatened destruction, when the forces of the earth were rallied against him, and also in times of prosperity. I've heard him speak, as many of you heard him speak in public, to advance the principles of eternal truth and plead with the people to observe the laws of God and to keep his commandments that they might be prepared for a celestial inheritance. But I have also been with him in private counsel. So I've had the opportunity of becoming acquainted with his feelings, his ideas, his views and with his morality, with his truthfulness and with his integrity. And I know that he was a good man, that he was an honest man, that he was a man of integrity, that he was a prophet of the Lord and that he lived in that capacity and that he died in that capacity, and that he maintained his integrity to the end. I was not only with Joseph living, but I was with him dying. And this is my testimony concerning Joseph Smith. I know before God and holy angels, I do not think it. I know it. I know that he was a servant of God and a prophet of the Lord, and he lived and died in the faith. And I not only know it by my natural sight, but by the revelations of God. And I know by the same way that he yet lives. For I have seen him, and I know that he yet lives. And therefore I rejoice in the testimony that I can bear concerning him. I know that he will live, and I know that he is a friend of this people and watching over their interests. I know that he's also a friend to President Young and watches over him, that he's interested in the welfare, the happiness and the exaltation of the saints of the most high. And having a knowledge of these things sustains my mind, it comforts my heart and strengthens me in the faith of the new and everlasting covenant and in the principles of truth we continue to hear. He goes on to say, I esteem it as one of the greatest blessings conferred upon me to participate in this priesthood that is the government of God in the heavens and upon the earth that rules and regulates and controls all the affairs of the eternal worlds, and that will rule and control and regulate the forces of this earth. I rejoice to Participate in the blessing of this gospel, in this priesthood. And I look upon everything else as short lived and temporal. Whether it is riches or poverty, ease or pain, whether it is prosperity or adversity. No matter what the circumstances may be in which I or in which you may be placed. It is a matter of very little importance to us if the circumstances that we are placed in have a tendency to lead us nearer to God, to make us more susceptible to his laws and to make us obedient to his command. That we may fulfill our destiny on the earth and be prepared to join with Joseph and with Hyrum, and with those who have lived in the faith and died in the faith of the Son of God. For Hyrum was a good man and a servant of the living God, and a man of integrity and truthfulness. And I saw him fell when he fell in prison. And I heard the last words he spoke. And I know that the desire of Joseph and Hyrum and was to promote peace. Whatever may have been the feelings of those that were around them, whatever their views might have been and had in relation to their ideas, their private and their public feelings, was to promote the happiness and well being of the whole human family. The worst feeling I ever saw any of them manifested by them was to procure the happiness and well being of the human family as far as God should give them the ability to do it. These were their private and their public feelings. The feelings they manifested before public congregations, before the world and in private council and under all circumstances. And although there are thousands of falsehoods in circulation concerning them, and although many of them are believed by the people, yet this was the bona fide feelings of these servants of God while they lived upon the earth. Did anyone ever hear them teach unrighteous principles? No. Did anybody ever see them practice unrighteous conduct? No. As President Young said, they were men, and they were perhaps the best men that lived. They might have some little weaknesses and foibles like all other men, but if they had been any better, they would have not been fit to associate with the people. But they were men of God. And they lived and died in the faith of that gospel they preached. And they did it sincerely with honest hearts before God and men. Therefore I pleasure in testifying of these things that I have borne that same testimony. I have done it here and in different nations before large public congregations. And I know that some people, especially abroad, don't like what I say. But these things have been my feelings here and will be to the day of my death. And through eternity. John Taylor's testimony, as I said, is a powerful one because he's not just someone passively bearing testimony of Joseph Smith. He's someone that experienced everything surrounding it. And as I said before, anyone who will in your life tell you that if only you knew what they knew, you wouldn't have a testimony of Joseph. Not one of those people will have known Joseph in private and in public like John Taylor did. Not one of those people will have sacrificed the way John Taylor did. And I would just add my testimony to his. I don't have the ability to say what John Taylor did. I haven't seen Joseph Smith in a vision. I wasn't with him in Carthage jail. But I have dedicated the last two decades of my life to studying all there is to know about Joseph Smith, to reading all the documents he produced, every sermon he wrote and gave, every minute of every meeting he was in. And I can testify that he was an honest and a good man. Yeah, he had failings like we all do, but there was no error in the revelations he taught. And as someone who has a PhD in history, I would put my testimony up in that like regard, that although you'll have people in your life tell you, oh, if only you knew what I know, then you wouldn't believe. Well, I defy that person because I don't know who it is who's talking to you. But I'm just going to guess that they don't have a PhD in 19th century American religious history and that they didn't spend the last two decades in the archives reading Joseph Smith's documents. They haven't been taught what is a good and what is a bad source. And I have. And that doesn't make me special or smart. I'm not any more special than anybody. But it's offensive to me when people say, if only you really studied this or knew, then you wouldn't believe. Because I have. I have studied it. But it's not because I studied it that I believe. I believe because the Holy Spirit of God has told me that Joseph Smith was a prophet. And that's the best part. You know, anybody who's listening to this, you might think, well, I don't have the next two decades to read every single thing Joseph ever wrote. I can barely read my Book of Mormon. You don't have to. You don't even have to be able to read. You can be illiterate and feel the power of the Holy Spirit of God tell you that Joseph Smith saw Jesus Christ. This is God's true church, so I bear my testimony of that. I am grateful that Joseph Smith brought the truth into the world he did. Grateful that he and Hyrum were willing to die so that we might have the truth. And I say that in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Thank you for listening to the Standard of Truth podcast, hosted by historian Dr. Garrett Dirkmot. If you know anybody that could benefit from the material in this episode, please share it with them. And for more resources, visit standardoftruth. Com. Until next time.