Podcast Summary: Standard of Truth – Episode S5E10 "Thus Saith the Lord"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Standard of Truth
• Host/Author: Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat
• Description: Aimed at helping Latter-Day Saints better understand their history and bolster their faith, the podcast is hosted by Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat, an associate professor of Church History and Doctrine at BYU.
• Episode: S5E10 "Thus Saith the Lord"
• Release Date: March 6, 2025

Introduction

In episode S5E10, titled "Thus Saith the Lord," Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat and Dr. Richard Leduc delve into various aspects of Latter-Day Saint history, addressing listener queries, and unpacking complex theological and historical issues. The episode is a blend of insightful discussions, humor, and expert analysis aimed at enriching the faith and knowledge of its listeners.

Listener Emails and Interactions

1. Justin’s Missionary Challenge

Justin writes humorously about his missionary son stationed in the Kobe, Japan area of the joint Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Tucson mission. His playful plea highlights the ongoing "Missionary Madness March" tournament, challenging over 120 missionaries to increase engagement with the podcast.

• Dr. Dirkmaat (02:40): "Right, so you're saying that your sons are not doing as good a job in moving the needle in getting people to ask for the files."

• Dr. Leduc (03:01): "Kobe, Japan is now in the lead, so good work on that, Justin."

2. Brandon’s Evening Duties

Brandon shares his nightly responsibilities as the church's nighttime guardian, humorously mentioning his routine of searching for forgotten snacks and dealing with less pleasant surprises.

• Dr. Dirkmaat (05:17): "You must have a young ward if there's dirty diapers in every bathroom every night."

• Dr. Leduc (05:52): "You're welcome. That I got my wife hooked on your podcast about four months ago."

3. Dawson’s Encounter with Anti-Mormon Claims

Dawson narrates his experience on platform X (formerly Twitter), where he confronted an individual asserting that Joseph Smith never practiced polygamy. He highlights the importance of discerning credible historical sources and avoiding counterfeited scholarship.

• Dr. Leduc (07:29): "Let's hear them out, guys. Let's hear them out."

• Dawson (07:21 - 09:02): He explains how the individual cited a supposed expert lacking formal historical training, leading Dawson to appreciate the podcast's role in clarifying historical inaccuracies.

4. Charlene’s Inquiry on Revelation Language

Charlene poses a theological question regarding the evolution of language in church revelations. She notes that early revelations often began with "Thus saith the Lord," whereas modern revelations do not, prompting curiosity about this linguistic shift.

• Charlene (33:33): "I also wonder about the language of revelation and why it has changed."

Main Discussions

A. Addressing Plural Marriage Criticisms

Dr. Dirkmaat and Dr. Leduc engage in a comprehensive discussion about the historical practice of plural marriage within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They emphasize the significance of multiple independent sources corroborating Joseph Smith’s involvement in plural marriages, countering arguments that solely rely on Emma Smith’s later denials.

• Dr. Dirkmaat (12:03): "The antagonistic attack, the Tanners are not biased."

• Dr. Leduc (14:09): "I am not a PhD historian. Right. I am not published in this field."

• Key Point: The importance of recognizing trained historians versus self-proclaimed experts in evaluating historical claims.

B. Evaluating Source Credibility

The hosts stress the necessity of relying on credible, academically trained historians when assessing historical claims about church history. They caution against accepting arguments from individuals lacking formal training or publication credentials.

• Dr. Dirkmaat (12:03): "There are some things that Latter Day Saint historians believe that non Latter Day Saint historians surprisingly don't believe."

• Dr. Leduc (19:13): "In history, that person is as much as a historian, is Dr. Philosis Hurlbut is a doctor."

C. Evolution of Revelation Language

Responding to Charlene’s question, the hosts explore why modern revelations no longer use phrases like "Thus saith the Lord." They attribute this shift to respect for the teachings of early prophets and the seamless integration of revelation without the need for repetitive authoritative phrases.

• Dr. Dirkmaat (34:48): "In the days of Joseph Smith, it was thus saith the Lord almost daily until the revelations now embodied in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants had been given."

• Dr. Leduc (35:02): "If you have this spirit, this is our guide. We know what is the true voice from heaven."

D. The Role of Living Prophets and Adaptation

The discussion highlights the adaptive nature of church teachings and the reliance on living prophets and apostles to guide the church. They argue that the authoritative teachings do not always require explicit divine phrasing to be considered revelation.

• Dr. Dirkmaat (47:57): "The Family proclamation signed by all 15 prophets and revelators is a wonderful illustration of that principle."

• Dr. Leduc (55:16): "Why, you have a faithful family in the church, and they are saying the exact same thing that Emma’s saying."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Dr. Leduc (07:29): "Or on X. Yeah, yeah. No, no."

• Dr. Dirkmaat (14:15): "Do not accept the premise of a pseudo intellectual masquerading as a historian. Reject the premise outright."

• Dr. Dirkmaat (33:02): "You should always, always exhibit Christlike attributes, even in those cases."

• Dr. Dirkmaat (55:48): "If President Nelson says this, then it's not really. That's not really from God."

• Dr. Leduc (61:40): "Kobe, Japan is out. And they're actually. We did get some others, so."

Conclusions and Insights

In this episode, Dr. Dirkmaat and Dr. Leduc effectively address both light-hearted and serious listener inquiries, providing a balanced perspective on church history and contemporary theological questions. They emphasize the importance of credible historical scholarship, caution against accepting unfounded claims, and elucidate the evolution of revelation language within the Church.

Key takeaways include:

• Discernment in Historical Claims: Always evaluate the credibility of sources, prioritizing academically trained historians over self-proclaimed experts.

• Understanding Revelation Evolution: The shift away from phrases like "Thus saith the Lord" in modern revelations is intentional, aiming to foster a deeper, more personal connection with divine guidance.

• Embracing Change and Continuity: The Church's teachings adapt over time while maintaining core doctrines, emphasizing the role of living prophets and apostles in guiding members.

• Cultivating Faith and Discernment: Followers are encouraged to cultivate their faith and discernment, trusting in the collective teachings of church leaders even when linguistic styles evolve.

The episode concludes with a call to listeners to continue engaging with historical and theological content, fostering a deeper understanding and strengthening their faith.

Closing Remarks: Dr. Dirkmaat and Dr. Leduc wrap up the episode with their trademark humor, reflecting on the ongoing missionary challenges and encouraging listeners to share the podcast with others who might benefit from its insights.

• Dr. Dirkmaat (62:08): "Thank you for listening to the Standard of Truth podcast... Until next time."

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of episode S5E10 "Thus Saith the Lord," offering a detailed overview for those who haven't listened while maintaining the engaging and informative spirit of the podcast.