S5E45 Changes to the Section Headings and Polygamy

Summary

Podcast Summary: Standard of Truth S5E45 - "Changes to the Section Headings and Polygamy"

Date: October 30, 2025
Hosts: Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat (GD) & Dr. Richard Leduc (RL)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores recent historical changes to the section headings of the Doctrine & Covenants, the implications of those changes (with a particular focus on plural marriage), and related Church history context. Dr. Dirkmaat and Dr. Leduc provide insight into how and why these changes were made, help listeners understand their faith’s history on a deeper level, and clarify common misunderstandings—especially regarding polygamy. The hosts also manage, with their trademark humor and asides, to weave in personal anecdotes, listener correspondence, and call for charity via Sweetwater Rescue.

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1. Personal Anecdotes and Charity Updates

Timestamps: 00:35 – 16:26

• RL recounts a trip to Church history sites (Liberty Jail, Adam-ondi-Ahman, Haun’s Mill), reading the Hyrum Smith affidavit about Mormon persecutions in Missouri—a deeply sobering experience.
  • “...it’s the most terrible thing you'll ever read in your life.” (GD, 03:37)
• Transition to a comic/tragic event: RL’s car is broken into during a Kansas City Chiefs game, losing valuables, passport, headphones, etc. This segues into lighthearted banter about leaving sports games early to “beat traffic.”
• RL shares about Sweetwater Rescue—a charity aiding global Saints to attend the temple, with “every dollar literally goes to getting a Latter-day Saint to the temple, not to an overhead...” (GD, 13:50)
  • Upcoming fundraiser: eat at “Hug Hess” (Utah restaurants) Nov 6–8; 34% of proceeds to Sweetwater Rescue's Kenya Nairobi Temple initiative.

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2. Christie’s Corner: Unpacking D&C Section 124

Timestamps: 16:29 – 26:09

Key Points

• Section 124 is a “gigantic revelation” laying out ordinances for the Nauvoo Temple (endowment, washings/anointings, baptisms for the dead).
• Doctrine Flexibility: The Lord says some temple things are revealed specifically for the "dispensation of the fulness of times." (D&C 124:41)
  • “There are at least some things revealed that actually have not been revealed before...for the dispensation of the fullness of times.” (GD, 16:43)
  • Takeaway: Don’t stress if ceremonies change over time—they are intended to be adapted for new dispensations and peoples.
• The Nauvoo House: Verses 111–119 outline the building of a hotel/event center for economic/work relief of poor Saints—intended as a form of welfare employment.
  • “Part of the purpose of God giving this revelation...is this early attempt to provide [for] the poor of the Church through work...the origin” of employment-based welfare, akin to DI. (GD, 25:18)

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3. Listener Email & Community Engagement

Timestamps: 26:09 – 36:24

• Listener "John" from Texas emails about his family’s Church experiences, LDS history interests, and his son on a mission. The email is read at length with commentary and jokes from hosts.
  • “Your podcast has made me go from not really interested in church history to wanting to learn and understand more and more and even American history.” (Listener “John”, 35:35)
  • RL and GD riff on Idaho towns (“we’re big in Atomic City”, 32:04) and misadventures in March Madness bracket predictions.
• John’s reflection: Since listening, his testimony of Joseph Smith has grown “like the light of the sun compared to the light of the stars of my prior testimony...” (34:27)
• The email segues into hosts discussing the importance of learning true history and answering challenging gospel questions thoughtfully.

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4. Main Content: Changes to D&C Section Headings

Timestamps: 36:24 – 66:16

a) Background on Changes

• In October 2025, the Church released updates—mostly to D&C headings; a few to Book of Mormon chapter summaries.
• The majority of changes are later in D&C, reflecting historical clarifications made possible by the completed Joseph Smith Papers project.
  • “Most of the changes now...is to the second half of it. And look, some of them are just minor...” (GD, 38:44)
• Many 2013 changes focused on early D&C chapters, based on Joseph Smith Papers findings up to that point.

b) Types of Changes

• Chronological detail: Dates and timeframe corrections, e.g., “July 20, 1833” replaces “July 1833” in Section 98.
• Contextual Clarification: E.g.,
  • D&C 121–123 now explicitly indicate these are excerpts from longer letters written by Joseph Smith. (41:35)
  • “...most people...are surprised. They’re like, it [D&C 121] does [come from a larger letter]? Now it’s directly in the section heading...” (GD, 41:21)
• Doctrinal Clarification:
  • Law of Consecration vs. Tithing (Section 119 & 120)
    • Headings now clarify that tithing did not replace the law of consecration.
    • “The law of consecration...that you’re willing to give everything to God that God asks for is part of being a Saint...it wasn’t terribly accurate [to treat it as replaced].” (GD, 48:21)
  • Section 98: now notes temporal proximity to Jackson County expulsion.

c) Substantive Updates Addressing Misunderstandings

• Polygamy (Section 132):
  • Old heading: “Evidence indicates that some principles...were known to the prophet as early as 1831.”
  • New heading: “Evidence indicates some...were known by the prophet earlier.”
  • The change removes the specific 1831 date due to lack of definitive documentary support (such as direct revelation manuscripts from then), as most evidence involves later (but still pre-1843) discussions and secondhand recollections.
    • “...Joseph could have been thinking about these things as early as translating the Book of Jacob in the Book of Mormon in 1829...One of the reasons why I think 1831 became...problematic is a lot of that...was tied to what W.W. Phelps claimed happened in July of 1831...” (GD, 53:09)
  • RL anticipates critics seizing on this as “softening.” GD responds:
    • “There is nothing new. These arguments that Joseph Smith never taught or practiced polygamy...those were all made by the Reorganized Church...Guess who no longer makes those arguments? The Reorganized Church.” (GD, 62:52)
    • “The very women that they claim they care about, they will call liars because they say that God told them to practice plural marriage. So please don't fall under that seduction. I know it’s seductive.” (GD, 60:20)

d) Theological and Historical Guidance

• Reminder: discomfort with polygamy is natural and understandable, but historical and doctrinal evidence is unequivocal.
  • “If you’re not uncomfortable with it...that’s very weird, because in America...polygamy is seen as something...horrifically wrong, always...it is a very natural reaction to feel uncomfortable about plural marriage.” (GD, 59:38)
• The problem with “comfort theology”: sometimes, critics seduce believers away from truth by confirming what they want to hear. GD powerfully warns listeners to stay anchored to actual prophetic teachings.
  • “When we have discomfort...that’s when someone can...say...they found that Joseph Smith never practiced polygamy...and [then] they’ll go on to malign the dozens and dozens...who testified that Joseph Smith taught them...” (GD, 60:13)
  • “The prophet of God is the only person who has the ability to determine what scripture is and what the doctrine of the Church is. And that prophet and every prophet since Joseph Smith has said that section 132 is a revelation from God and a scripture.” (GD, 64:09)

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5. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you want to look smart in Sunday School...Christie’s Corner exists for it to seem like you have a depth of understanding...” (GD, 16:41)
• “Every dollar literally goes to getting a Latter-day Saint to the temple, not to an overhead...If listening to this podcast hasn’t taught you that you can create something with literally no money and no administrative support, this is it.” (GD, 13:50)
• “There are very good people, believing people, who themselves are very uncomfortable with polygamy. Look, every person should be uncomfortable with polygamy.” (GD, 59:34)
• “Please don't fall under that seduction. I know it’s seductive. It’s the most seductive when someone is telling you exactly what you want to hear...” (GD, 61:04)
• “The prophet of God is the only person who has the ability to determine what scripture is and what the doctrine of the Church is.” (GD, 64:17)

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6. Episode Structure & Tone

• Tone: Warm, humorous, candid, and deeply faithful; the hosts blend personal storytelling and Church history expertise, never shying from difficult topics but framing them with doctrinal conviction and charity.
• Structure:
  • Opening banter and anecdotes (including RL’s Kansas City misfortune and Sweetwater Rescue update)
  • Christie’s Corner: deep dive on D&C 124 (temple, evolving ordinances, early LDS welfare)
  • Listener correspondence—building community, testimony
  • Commentary and analysis on changes to scripture headings, with a focus on law of consecration/tithing and polygamy
  • Exhortation to anchor faith in true historical study and prophetic authority

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode:

This episode demystifies why and how the Church updates scriptural headings—always to clarify, not to “cover up”—and provides a model of how to faithfully grapple with challenging history. It is a robust resource for understanding both recent changes and enduring questions about the law of consecration, polygamy, and the living nature of Latter-day Saint revelation. The hosts’ candor and humor make even the most serious topics approachable for believing members seeking deeper faith and understanding.

Transcript

[Narrator]

Welcome to the Standard of Truth podcast. In this podcast, Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat and Dr. Richard Leduc explore the early history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the life and teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith. They examine the original historical sources and provide context for events of the past. They approach the history of the church with faith expertise and humor.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Foreign.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Hi. Welcome to another episode of the Standard of Truth podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Garrett Dirkmont, and I am joined by my, well, temporarily poor co host, Dr. Richard Leduc, who had an unfortunate incident at. At a certain sporting event.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I feel like. Hello, Garrett. Thanks for having me back. I feel like there is a lost opportunity for the state of Missouri to say essentially that they've been robbing the Mormons since whenever.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Since 1831. I mean, yeah. Really? They only robbed us beginning in 1833, but yeah.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

When did they become a state? I felt like the moment they became a state, they. Some Missourian is immediately robbing some Mormons.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Some became a state before there were Mormons.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Still, I'm going to get to the bottom of it.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Okay.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I had a. I had a pretty fun and eventful day. I went to the BYU Iowa State game. That was one of the most fun games I've ever been to. It was a blast. Iowa State fans could not have been nicer. They were absolutely lovely. Wonderful. When I went to a Texas BYU game, I was offered beer everywhere. When I went to the Iowa State BYU game, I was offered apple pie and cornbread and it was. The fans were wonderful. It was a great experience. The game was a lot of fun. Drove down with my friends to Kansas City, Missouri. We were going to go to a Monday night game, the Kansas City Chiefs and the Washington Commanders.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

And because Richard's a pretty big Taylor Swift fan, he was hoping that he would be able to see Taylor and Travis, did you.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Well, there was. There was a woman that was two rows ahead of me who had her phone and was zoomed in on the suites trying to find where Taylor Swift was. It was actually funny.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Did she find her?

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

She did not.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Okay.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Was she in attendance? I don't know. I don't. I don't know that she was or not. I'm not.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

You're not as much of a Swifty as my daughter.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

No, I am not. Yeah, but. So park the car. So. So on Sunday, we went to Liberty Jail. Garrett, you just spoke of Liberty Jail last week for the Christie's Corner. And. And so we went there and it's good. The missionaries were great. It was lovely. And then Monday we went to Adam on Diamond. Many of the people in the group had never been. And then we went to. And then we went to Hans Mill. And as we drove up to Adam on Diamond and over to Hans Millen back, I read the Hyrum Smith affidavit where he was discussing what happened to the Saints back in Missouri.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

And it's the most terrible thing you'll ever read in your life.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yes, it was really, really terrible.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

And it's, it is not a short affidavit. It's like 30 pages of. And then they did this to us, and then they did this and then we did this and then they did this jokingly.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

We've said if we were to ever, if we were to ever read it, we would have to mark the episode as explicit because higher.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Because he quotes the model and what other actions are.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, right. So anyway, that put me. That, that's what you want to do. That puts you in the mood. It puts you in a real good mood for some barbecue and some football. We go to the Kansas City Chiefs game, we park the car, we leave in the third quarter, as I am always want to do to beat traffic.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

And you did not really leave in the third quarter.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

We most assuredly did.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

You bought tickets to an NFL game and left in the third quarter.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Garrett, all I want to do is beat traffic. That's all I've ever wanted.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Why do you even. You buy tickets to games just to leave them.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

You don't even want to watch the game. You just want. The endorphin rush for you is getting out of the parking lot.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yes, I want to beat traffic.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I want to get home. I've gone to many sporting events with him and legitimately it's like halfway through the second quarter and he starts tapping his watch like, you know, guys, we gotta, if we're gonna beat the, the, the rush. Well, we gotta, we gotta go.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

So you say that at the BYU, Iowa State game, first play from scrimmage, 80 yard, you know.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yes. You're like, well, guys, you want to beat the Dravid.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

No, I looked over my guy, my buddies and I, I, you know, I did the. Hey, let's wrap it up, you guys. I'll go get the car. Let's get out of here. Anyway, we go out to our car and our car, our rental car is one of 12 cars that have smashed in windows and they grabbed my, my bag that was full of lots of things that are expensive. My passport. That one was a kind of A. That one was frustrating, but several. Several thousand dollars in items that were. Were stolen. And then we drove a freezing, freezing drive home. Now we didn't have traffic, so that helped us to get well.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Think it would have been better with traffic. You wouldn't have been going as fast.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah. So, I mean, imagine the day. So get up. We go to Adam Ondiamond. We read the Hyrum Smith affidavit. We go to Hans Mill. We're filled with great. Just sadness of all of the things going on. We go to the football game and we go out and there were lots of things in the van. The only thing that was stolen was my things.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

My.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

My bag that had, you know, all really nice headphones and a bunch.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

What about your Best of Bread CD collection? Was that still there?

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, baby, I'm gonna want you. They did leave that. I. They did leave my coat. And I think that that's almost. That's a. That's a stinging indictment of mine.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

So they. They're like, we're gonna steal all this guy's stuff. But that jacket, I don't care how much it costs. It's not worth even trying to resell it.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Coat, I don't want that coat at all.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

So they should have wanted the coat. Right? Because it's free.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

They should have wanted the coat. But, yeah, no, that was. That was a bummer. I went through and added it up. It's probably about 4, 500 bucks in stolen items. A kick in the proverbial groin, as they say.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

We're gonna come up with a lot more filthy lucre to cover that.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, the $0 an hour.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

We're gonna have to keep giving away more premium subscriptions to missionaries in order to cover that. I'm not sure how the math works, but I know it works well.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I will say now this is a terrible transition because it's gonna seem like it's for me, but it's not for me. We actually had somebody reach out to us that was just incredibly kind. And this is relating to Sweetwater rescue. And it looks like our next. Our next place that we're going to be going. We're working out the details, but it looks like that will be the Kenya Nairobi Temple, which will be incredible experience. It'll likely be toward the. Toward the end of the summer next year. And so somebody in the ownership from Hugh Hess, which is more of. More Davis county, it's more on the northern side of Utah. They have six different locations. And they reached out to us and said, hey, we. We love this idea, and we'd love to be able to. To help. And so we kind of went back and forth on, boy, that's so nice. How could we do that? And ultimately, what they said is, let's have like three days that'll be set aside for this. And everybody that comes in to one of our six locations that they say, essentially, this is for Sweetwater rescue. And then 34% of the. Of the proceeds from that, from that tab go toward the Sweetwater Rescue to help in this case, Saints get to the temple in Nairobi, Kenya, which is.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

A massive number, by the way, if you're wondering. It means that the restaurant is losing money on your tab is what it means.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yes.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

So there's. There's those six locations. Again, they are all relatively north. I mean, there's one, there's a couple in Ogden, there's one in Syracuse, there's one in Stansbury park, there's one in Centerville, and there's one in Layton. Great restaurant, incredible food. We don't do advertisements. Well, Well, I, I make it sound like we don't do advertisements because we're pure. We don't do advertisements because no one wants to be associated with us.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I'm desperately.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah, we've been asking for advertisement for years. All we get is cease and desist letters. Even if we mentioned something, I'm like, you know, I. I just really loved go. I love those people over there at Mod Pizza. And I get a cease and desist letter. Please don't tell anyone you eat here. Our revenue drops every time you do. So we're not, you know, we don't usually do advertising, but if you don't know if this is your first episode you've ever listened to, and you're like, when do they actually start talking about anything I care about? We don't. But second of all, the Sweetwater Rescue is a charity that is, you know, affiliated with the podcast that, that, you know, Richard and his friends run that goes to some places in the world that it is very difficult for Saints to get to the temple. And working with the local church leaders helps pay the cost of getting people to the temple. They've done it in places like Peru, they've done it in Argentina, they've done it in Lithuania. And so this is a super noble cause. This is literally helping Saints who. Otherwise the cost of going to the temple is so prohibitive that they just, you know, it might as well be $10,000 for the cost and the time that it takes. And, you know, you think, well, what Is me going to eat, going to do? Honestly, if you go and have a healthy meal, you probably got just yourself someone on the way to the temple. That's how helpful it is to get dozens and dozens, well over 100 people usually to the temple. So we'll keep reminding you of those days. Well, I mean, maybe we'll drop a bonus or something, but it's November 6th, 7th and 8th.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, November 6th, 7th and eighth. So it's the Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Yep.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

So Thursday, Friday, Saturday, November 6th, 7th and 8th. Find a way to, you know, book a giant party. You know, get everybody, you know, go, go. I need everybody to rent a tour bus, collect their friends, go to your local Hug Hess location. And it's spelled H U G H E S Hugh Hess, if you haven't heard of it. I'm assuming that there's some people in, you know, in Utah county that are like, oh, I'd love to help out. What do you mean? I have to drive to Ogden. But no, yeah, no, you could get it one in Centerville. Come on. And please go. Let them know it's for Sweetwater Rescue when you order. And as Richard has expressed multiple times, it is incredibly humbling to see all of our faithful litners who. Who are so willing to donate to help people go to the temple that they will never meet, that they will never talk to, who will never know their name, and yet they are absolutely transforming the life of a Latter Day Saint somewhere else. So this, we couldn't be more grateful to the ownership of Hugh Hess. And look, you're not going to be making any kind of a sacrifice here. The food's ridiculously good, so you're going to be like, please give us more of these opportunities. So anyway, and one.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

One thing, Garrett, so 100% of. Of any of the money donated to Sweetwater Rescue goes towards replacing Richard's backpack. Yeah. I was going to be very clear that it is no way.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

All of the money donated. There's no overhead here. So there's no. Nobody's paid. So there's no one who's like, well, I'm the director of Sweetwater Rescue, and. And I feel like a director position that on the open market to be somewhere around, you know, $5 million. So, I mean, the director. There's a little bit of administrative cost. There's no administrative cost because nobody paid. So every dollar literally goes to getting a Latter Day Saint to the temple, not. Not to an overhead, not to, like, paying for a secretary. That's. So. No, there's. There's nothing. If. If listening to this podcast hasn't taught you that you can create something with literally no money and no administrative support, this is it.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I was gonna say we just stole this model and applied it to this.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

It's a great model. Now, it's not a great model for making money.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

No, no, no.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

It's not a model for making good content. It is. It's a model.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

The particular place that we are looking to go is actually kind of cool because we. Because the church has a temple patron fund for people first time going through the temple to take out their endowments or for ceilings. This is not to support that. We provide the logistical and then fundraising support for people that haven't been in 10, 20, 30 years to the temple and youth where the church's temple patron fund is not currently applied to those individuals. And then sometimes when working with, like, to Garrett's point, we're kind of in the background. We. We are just in the. In the church news. The. The trip from Lithuania to Finland and all that you hear about us or see of us is like Becky and me, like, waving in the background.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

There's a caption of the photo that says Sweetwater Rescue, but doesn't say who they are.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, no. No one knows. But the whole idea is that the. The local leadership and we'll be working likely with a stake in. In Kenya. The average income is around $300 a year where we'll be. So the idea of traveling 8 to 10 hours to the temple is. It's. It's an exorbitant cost that. That is very difficult for folks. So anyway, Garrett, I very much appreciate you allowing the time for us to do this. And the fine folks at HUG has very kind of them indeed.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah. So remember those dates. November 6th, 7th and 8th. Round up a posse, go buy some food, tell them it's for Sweetwater, and let's maybe dive into Christie's Corner then.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, let's get right into it.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

When you want to look smart in Sunday school, if you want your friends to think you're cool, when you want to seem wise and not a fool, it's Christie's Corner.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

So doctrine covenants, section 124.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Garrett, boy, we shouldn't do Christie's corners of gigantic revelations, especially ones that are about the temple and especially ones that are so important, like section 124. I mean, section 124 is the section that outlines what the. The ordinances are in this new Nauvoo temple that they're building because it talks about endowments. It talks about washings and anointings. It talks about baptisms for the dead. I mean, Section 124 is incredible. And so I thought, you know, what better way to talk about it than to talk about something that won't be talked about in your Sunday school? And that will make you. Because look again, if you want to look smart in Sunday school, if you want your friends to think you're cool, Christie's Corner exists for it to seem like you have a depth of understanding that allows you to become the Stake Relief Society president. That's. This is. It's. It's all baby steps as you progressed, either to Stake Relief Society president or to MTC district leader, that you're. You're working your way up by demonstrating your knowledge that you have there is. They will cover this for sure in whatever class you're in. But it's so cool, we still have to reference it. And that is that a lot of the time I think we try to find. Exactly. Like I'll have people say to me, like, so do you think that when Peter went to the temple in Jesus time, was the temple ceremony for Peter exactly the same, or was the. Was the temple ceremony for Adam? You know, were the covenants exactly the same? Of course, the answer to that is I don't know. Right. And that's the reality. I don't really know. But you do get something very interesting in verses 39, 40, and 41 that suggests that there are some things that are for the last dispensation of the fullness of times. Therefore, I say unto you that your anointings and your washings and your baptisms, for your dead and your solemn assemblies and your memorials for your sacrifices by the sons of Levi, and for your oracles in your most holy places, wherein you receive conversations, your statutes and judgments, for the beginnings of the revelations and the foundation of Zion, and for the glory, honor, and endowment of. Of all her municipals are ordained by the ordinance of my holy house, which my people are always commanded to build unto my holy name. And verily I say unto you, let this house be built unto my name, that I may reveal mine ordinances therein unto my people. For I deign to reveal unto my church things which have been kept hiding from before the foundation of the world, things that pertain to the dispensation of the fullness of times. So verse 41 of section 124 suggests that there are at least some things revealed that actually have not been revealed before in the temple that they pertain directly to, to the dispensation of the fullness of times, which is the dispensation we live in. So I always think, you know, it's important not to get hung up on, well, if they change any part of the presentation of the endowment, then how could it possibly be the same as it was in Solomon's temple? Well, the Lord is telling you that he is going to reveal things in this temple that have been kept hiding from before the foundation of the world. So, you know, it's okay that God's people make covenants, that is certain, that those covenants have always been made in exactly the same way. Well, of course they haven't. That God speaks to people according to their own culture, their own light, their own understanding to make those covenants more real. Now, the second thing I want to talk about is the part that I guarantee won't be talked about. I mean, maybe it will. I mean, probably you have like, some Gospel doctrine teacher who's also like a professor, you know, church history and doctrine. And they're like, let me tell you something. But if you drop all the way down to verse 111. So, I mean, you're. If you're reading through this in class, you aren't going to get to verse 1:11. But if you get down there, you'll see that it starts talking about that unto whom I've appointed to build a house for boarding, even the Nauvoo House. So you might have heard of the Nauvoo House before. And this is this undertaking in Nauvoo that is designed to build this, well, I mean, gigantic hotel and event center. I mean, for the 19th century purposes. I mean, it's not like they're building the MGM grand, but that God is commanding them to build this giant hotel. And you can, when you go to Nauvoo, if you're going on our tour with us in Nauvoo, or if you go to Nauvoo, you can see what remains of what they built of the Nauvoo House. They don't complete it. But the saints, there are several saints who are by name commanded to invest in this. What's really interesting. So the church is building it, but people are supposed to buy stock into it. And then, of course, they could all make some of the proceeds from it when it's done. But listen to who's allowed to buy stock into the Nauvoo House. If you drop down to verse 119. And again, verily I say unto you, let no man pay stock to the Quorum of the Nauvoo House unless he shall be a believer in the Book of Mormon. And in the revelations that I have given unto you, saith the Lord your God, for that which is more or less than this cometh of evil, and shall be attended with cursings and not blessings, saith the Lord your God. Even so. Amen. And again, verily I say unto you, let the Quorum of the Nauvoo House have a just recompense of wages for all their labors which they shall do in building the Nauvoo House, and let their wages be agreed among themselves as pertaining to the price thereof. And, you know, so it's going to go on talking about this. Well, Joseph Smith receives another revelation that's not in the Doctrine and Covenants a couple of months later pertaining to this Nauvoo House. So what's going on in Nauvoo in 1841? Well, you have thousands of people moving there, and this is going to accelerate over the course of 1842 and 43, and many of them are poor immigrants from Europe. And they're going to arrive in Nauvoo with legitimately nothing. Now, if you go to Nauvoo, you'll notice it's not exactly, you know, a center of manufacturing and industry. Right. It's not like, oh, well, we'll just get jobs at the local car manufacturing plant. So you have thousands of people showing up who don't have any money, so how are you going to provide for them? Part of the purpose of God Giving this Revelation 1:24 is this early attempt to provide the poor of the Church through work. If you had to trace DI back to its origins, this would be the origin. I mean, obviously not, you know, Desert Industries is a different corporation. I'm not saying that it is, but this revelation explains, let my servant William Allred and Henry Miller take stock in the house. Now, why? Why are we building the house? This is this revelation again. This is not in the Doctrine Covenants. This is an unpublished revelation, March 20, 1841, that the poor of my people may have employment. So part of the reason for spending the thousands and thousands of dollars to build this massive hotel was so that when poor people arrived, well, I don't have any money and I don't have any skills. Can you chop wood? Well, yeah. Okay, we'll go chop wood for the Nauvoo House and we'll pay you for your labor on the Nauvoo House. You'll be able to take that money and you'll be able to start fresh from the bottom up.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

That's awesome.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah, I mean, like I said, probably not something that's part of every gospel doctrine class.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

No, but that's great. That's wonderful. Well, Garrett, thanks to the 5 million emails received in the last four days, we will be reading part of one so we can get into the content. We will not be talk about who's dead and in hell, but I think it's a topical thing.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I feel like we'll never talk about who's dead and in hell again. I feel like that'll be one of those where we start and people just be like, who went to hell? And I'll be like everyone who asked that question.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

It's the, it's the Calvinist. The Calvinist.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

It's St. Augustine where he says, what was God doing before he created everything? And he was, he was creating hell for people who ask questions like that.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

So. But because we wanted to talk about the changes to the headings of the Doctrine and Covenants was the, the main topic, if we have time to get to it. So this, this email comes to us from. It's John, I believe. Yes, this comes to us from John subject, which could be.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

No, no one else named John in the entire church.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

So John, John from Austin, Texas. Missionary email for my son serving in the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Spanish speaking mission. My dad is a fellow Jewish convert from Canada, like Dr. Leduc. Well, there's like six or maybe apparently two. So this is an exciting group here. Longtime listener, first time caller, tribute to the good old days of sports talk radio. Like Jim Rome. I don't know how many litters to the podcast are from. None of the missionaries would.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

All the missionaries listening are like, what, what do you mean sports talk radio? You mean TikTok? No, I don't mean TikTok. You mean 6, 7. No, I don't mean 6 7.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

You mean 41. I think that's the new 41. Is the new 6, 7. Garrett.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah, 41 67. So, so you know, Jim Rome, he had a sports talk show and back in the day before the Internet was on everyone's phones, you could have, you could have people call in and, and you could have a pretty workable phone screening. Now it just went to all prank calls. And so, you know, no one really does it very much anymore. But Jim Rome used to have, he was a sports talk guy and he used to have people call in and they would give their, they would give rants, they'd give like, their epic takes. And they called it, you know, him giving them the vine.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

You know, and so people call it jungle.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah. You're coming in.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah. They'd be like, hey, Rome, thanks for the vine. I think that until the Dallas Cowboys have different ownership, there's no possible way that they're going to be able to get another Super Bowl. I mean, that's him. Rack him. Yeah, yeah, that's what you'd get. So thank you very much, John, for that. That wasn't John's point in emailing.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

It was not, though. Although Garrett and I smiled at the Jim Rome comment. I hope my subject line had enough interesting hooks to get your attention. They asked for the missionary access for his. His sixth son. Back in March, I found the Standard Truth podcast when I heard an episode of Voices of the Restoration. You know, Garrett, you've done really good work on Follow him podcast and Voices of the Restoration. Nice job. I mean, it's coming to the end.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Of the year over there because they have, like.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, yeah, it's a way better. But you know what? You did a great job this year, Garrett. I don't say it enough. You knocked it out of the park where Dr. Dirk Mott was the special guest expert host. I listened to the first episode of Standard Truth and I became obsessed. The first episode was terrible. The first.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Oh, yeah. Because all of the other ones are amazing, like this one.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Even grading on that curve, the sound quality wasn't there.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

We had terrible mics. We obviously had no production values. Just like now.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Well, it was two cans connected by string. I listened to seasons one and two over the next couple of months, and I'm now caught up to December 2024. And we'll probably have to bite the bullet and become a premium content littner when I run out of episodes to listen to at night to put myself to sleep. I am a dad of six sons and we are sports nuts and have to go look up some past game. Game scores. When you were predicting the games since I thought I remembered some bad losses for some of those games you picked. Oh, I'm all, oh, yeah.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I don't think that it's got to be like, we're like a reverse Biff Tan and Almanac, where, like, we say, like, oh, I think Yukon's gonna go all the way this year. And then you go look it up and you're like, no, they are.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

You don't. You don't have to pretend. You don't have to pretend. The best. The best pick we've ever had that I've ever had. I picked Virginia to win the championship and they're the first number one seed to go out in the first round.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

He legitimately picked Virginia to win March Madness and they lost to a 16 seed.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

No one's ever done that before. It's the first time it's ever happened.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah. You know what else? No one's ever picked that poorly before, I think. No, there were lots of people, A lot of brackets were busted that year with Virginia.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

This is true. I found out of my memory. We live in Texas since 2013 and hope to stay. But all six of our sons were born. Born in Boise, Idaho. Just the connections just keep on coming. As we lived there for 16 years. My wife and I met at Rick's college. Go, Go Vikings. Your Idaho stories and towns make me laugh so hard because they are so true. Look, Garrett and I are killing it in declo.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah, Aramo got us. I mean, Oakley people are just like Paul. Yeah, we, we, we are number one in Paul. If you could be number one in Paul. I, I think we're, we're big in Atomic City. I heard that we're huge in Atomic City.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I have, I have a co worker that is actually from Atomic city. There's like 48.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Don't listen to the podcast. Oh my gosh.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

With the mullet getting fired at OK State a couple weeks ago and how far OK State football has fallen and listening to your ongoing hope that they might be soon good again. As painful as reading Moroni's letter to Pay Horan every time I get to that part of the Book of Mormon, knowing they Horan is getting run out of town. My number sixth son, Matthew, has been on a mission now for one full transfer just outside of Philadelphia. He and I listened to several episodes of the Standard of Truth as we drove all over Texas one weekend for the first endowment sessions in the Houston Temple one Friday night and then Dallas Temple on Saturday and then back to Austin that afternoon.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

That is a. Yeah, that is a temple triangle there.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

My goodness. For a couple of Matthew's friends who were leaving close to his departure date for their missions, I kept asking as we drove, do you want to listen to something else? Or another Standard of Truth episode he kept choosing. Or another. Yeah, some other thing. They kept choosing Standard of Truth. So please send him access. He will love it. And the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania mission will have to do some work to catch up to Pittsburgh. That is, that is so true. But my son can be the first to start throwing back starfish in Philly. He goes on to tell an incredible story of his. Of his father and some of the conversion there. But he goes on to say, thanks for all you do. I have a strong testimony of the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith is prophet for what he did to bring forth the Book of Mormon. But my testimony and appreciation for and love of Joseph Smith now is like the light of the sun compared to the light of the stars. Of my prior testimony of Joseph, I had light, but nothing like now. Thank you. Thank you, thank you.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

That's beautiful.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

That is beautiful. I talk about subjects from the podcast all the time in ward council. A couple months ago, they asked me to lead a discussion with the ward on answering hard gospel questions. The church website.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Please tell me you led with King Follett's sermon. If you've learned anything from this podcast, they asked you and they were like, well, you suppose God was God from all eternity. I will refuse that idea.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I love the idea of everything that anyone ever like. Hey, all right, all right, dad. You've got family night.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

All right.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I got the lesson.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

King wallet servant. You know, my brother D often said if every single lesson in church was just the plan of salvation, if that's all you did was talk about the plan of salvation and God's work through Christ to help bring us to exaltation, it would be great. It'd be a great lesson every single time. Same thing with the King Fallet sermon. You know, they're like, hey, should we talk about tithing? I'll tell you what we should talk about. Let's talk about the King Fallen sermon and just go right into it.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

I recommended to all the Standard of Truth podcast. I felt the fire in my soul to share it. We need people to prepare ahead before the ex Mormon radical TikTok influencer flies by them doing a 7:20 off a mogul and yelling Joseph Smith married other men's wives. I saw it on the Internet, but I will send you the link. Your podcast has made me go from not really interested in church history to wanting to learn and understand more and more and even American history. Thus my future subscription to the premium. Anyway, thank you so much, John, for the incredibly kind.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Great email. Great references too. Nothing's better than the extreme anti Mormon that we have turned into. Someone at the X Games who's a Mountain Dew sponsor.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, he's doing some ridiculous flip and yelling kinderhook plates or something.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

He's going off of a half pipe while he's saying, what about Orson Hyde's wife? And so we think that. That's good. So the Church released. And we'll put a link to this. We won't, but we'll say that we will.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

So we'll put a link to this. There won't be a link to this. In the description the Church released, the updates they're making to primarily the section headings of the Doctrine Covenants, there are two section or chapter headings in the Book of Mormon that they made changes to. So let me ask you a question, Richard. You're looking at that list, the list that's on the link that we absolutely posted.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

No. So. And the joke is, is that we always say we're going to do stuff. We never follow through on almost anything that we do. But on this one, I will post the link for sure.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

He says that. But if. If it's not there, I want everyone to email the podcast directly to Richard. Hey, Richard, where's the link you said was there for sure?

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yes. It's like six pages long. Yes, I've got it here.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

It's going in. So as you go to that first kind of list, it has a breakdown of the sections and the changes to the wording. What do you notice about this list? Just in general.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

The majority of the changes are later in the Doctrine Covenants.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I suppose that was pretty amazing. I did not. I did not give Richard any insight into that, but that's exactly what he came up with.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Well, you're. You. Your standard for what is good for me is so low.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I just want you to feel good after you had your car broke it into and everything stolen again.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

They just stole my stuff.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

So they didn't steal Brian's stuff.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

There was other people's stuff in the, in the van and they just.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

And they just left it there.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

They both stole my stuff and then didn't steal my coat. Which means, hey, we're going to take this thing. But we think your coat's pretty ugly.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

So I've seen your coat.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

All right, fair enough.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

If you'll notice, most of the changes are in this, essentially the second half of the Dr. Not even the second half, really, from 98 on.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

And so let me give you a perspective on that. Okay. In 2013, so. So roughly 12 years ago. Well, roughly. I mean, yeah, in 2013. I mean, I don't know exactly what part of the year they released it. The Church made changes to the Doctrine and Covenant sections headings then, but most of those changes, again, not all of them, but many of them were from the first portion of the Doctrine and Covenants. And you'll notice on the church's release, they explain that many of those in the Doctrine and Covenants were occasioned by the changes, were occasioned by findings from the Joseph Smith Papers project. So in 2013, only a few of the documents volumes, which are the meat volumes, the volumes of where these revelations would be covered and the letters surrounding them, only a few of them had already been published by 2013 or completed, the work on them completed. And so there were changes made to some of the other section headings from things that we already knew. But the bulk of the big changes were to the sections that had already had a thorough historical going over. And again, the Joseph Smith Papers volumes are reviewed by the quorum of the 12 and by the First Presidency. So it's not just like some guy by himself sitting in a closet somewhere at the church history, Like, I don't know, like, what if we said Fishing river here? No, there's a huge process to this. And so what's really interesting is that most of the changes in 2013 were to the first part of the Doctrine and Covenants, and most of the changes now that they've completed all of these other documents volumes is to the second half of it. And look, some of them are just minor, you know, like you can see on that, on that chart, you know, section 98, it used to say in July of 1833. Now it says exactly when. July 20, 1833. Right. Well, and how could I maintain my testimony having would when you lied to me and said that it was in July before instead of July 20th? You know, because we have a better clarification on some of these chronologies and dates, you know, so, for instance, if you see section 107, it used to say May 3rd. It now says May 4th, because now we know when that. When that took place, we have a better understanding of it. Some of the things like we just talked about last week with doctrine, covenant, section 121, 122 and 123. One of the things that I always had to. To teach my students and that we tried to talk about last week with our giant Christie's Corner that was really a Christie's highway or Christie's, you know, long, you know, giant Empire State Building wasn't really a corner was that these are all excerpted from two much longer letters. And so before it used to say that it was written by the prophet Joseph Smith and an epistle to the Church. Now it tells you directly that it's excerpted from Two epistles. Now, you might think that doesn't make any difference, but it actually does. Because most people that I tell that DNC 121, 122, and 123 that they come from a larger letter. They don't. They're surprised. They're like it does now. It's directly in the section heading where someone reading the section heading will go, oh, this is only part of what Joseph wrote. They know right away it's only part of what Joseph. Now they may still want to go out and find what else Joseph wrote, and that'll make them mad.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

The crack research staff came back. It was March of 2013, so.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Oh, okay. Yeah. So almost more than 12 years. I don't know how that helps us. We still can't do math.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

No, no, it doesn't. But just, you know, we're giving. The crack research staff did all the work. They want to just squeeze it in there.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Right. So look, some of the section heading changes. If you drop down further, you'll see in some of the introductions, like section 89, that's changed to directly include the fact that all of our accounts of why Joseph asked this question involve Emma Smith being a part of saying to Joseph, hey, are they really going to spit tobacco juice all over my floor? Would we come and talk about God? I mean, so they not only show you what's changed, but you see, that's really great there. They kind of give in the parentheses this kind of explanation for why it was changed. A great example of something that, you know, doesn't seem like it's a big deal, but kind of feels like it's a big deal is section 98. In section 98, it didn't used to give a time relationship to when the mob demanded that the Saints leave Jackson County. Right here, you get it now. In the section eight, three days later, church leaders sign an agreement to do so. Right. So it's giving you a little bit of a time element so you have a better understanding of what's going on. Well, what are some of the big ones? One of the biggest ones, I think is one of Richard's favorite sections and that we spent a lot of Christie Corner time on. And that's section 110. You always used to have to explain to people, you know, when this took place, it now says directly on it that this was on Easter Sunday after a Sabbath day meeting. Rather than, you know, you having to say to people, hey, just so you know, this was also over Easter when Joseph had these. These Departed saints come and give him the keys. Moses, Elias, and Elijah. I think the context that's added to section 112 is pretty interesting as well. We added a bunch of this context. So what's funny is I didn't know what this was coming out. Obviously, I'm not in the loop. I'm not important. No one cares about me. No one's asking my opinion. No one cares about me. But we spent time. When we went over section 112 on the podcast, we spent time talking about the fact that there was a lot of dissension going on, that there was a lot of people that had apostatized. And so what did they do? They added, at this time, there was a significant dissension in the church over Joseph Smith's leadership, including among some of the apostles. And so now that that same context that we were trying to kind of give, I mean, frankly, what the church is doing is they're killing Christie's Corner. I mean, they're just. They're giving you all the information. And now we're going to have to go to, like, Christie's Super Corner. It's going to have to be, like, the most obscure thing ever. Like, what was the middle name of Thomas B. Marshall? You don't know that, do you? And now make me a steak Sunday school present. So that one's very interesting. One of the ones that I think is really key and will affect how we look at things going forward is there are few things more misunderstood in the church more commonly misunderstood than the law of consecration. Now, the law of consecration, I think most people think they know what it is, but almost invariably when someone talks about the law of consecration in early church history, what they mean is the consecration of properties. That's what they mean. They'll be like, oh, yeah, well, the saints, they were living the law of consecration in Missouri. What do they mean? They mean that the saints were giving all of their property to the church, and the church was giving them back a stewardship. The problem was that made things kind of unclear, you know. You know, this. This used to say that, you know, they had the law of consecration. God took it away and gave them the law of tithing. As if the law of tithing somehow replaced the law of consecration. Well, that can be a little bit confusing given some of the covenants that people make. Right. So given the covenants people make, they're like, you know, I'm pretty sure I am still covenanting to consecrate. I. Right. And so the new wording kind of eliminates that connection.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Right.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

And it even says that in the parentheses. This removes the implication that the law of consecration was replaced by the law of tithing is no longer in effect. Obviously the law of consecration, that you're willing to give everything to God that God asked for is part of being a saint. In fact, you can do a self evaluation real quickly just by asking yourself what would you actually be willing to give up for the church and for God? And you start going through that mental list in your mind, would you really be willing to give up everything? The idea that God asks us to consecrate everything, meaning if it's needed, we give everything. The idea that it was replaced by the law of tithing really was, you know, it wasn't terribly accurate. And so now it's there. And plus it's positioned in this time frame of this financial crisis for the church and for the country. Right. That things are really bad in the country at the time. They are really bad financially. So I think that change is going to have a long lasting impact because section 119, often you've heard people say, oh, God gave people the law of tithing to replace the law of consecration. I've heard that literally dozens and dozens and dozens of times. But that's not the case. One other change that I think people might notice, maybe they won't, maybe they should, I don't know, is to section 132. Now, section 132 is the revelation on plural marriage. So look, I start talking about this and we're immediately going to be inundated by 75 emails from people who didn't listen to the rest of the episode. But somehow some AI chatbot caught this part and they're going to be responding to that. But it used to say that. It used to say as early as 1831, in when did Joseph Smith know about these principles? So, you know, it used to say that although the revelation was recorded in 1843, evidence indicates that some of these, the principles involved in this revelation were known to the prophet as early as 1831. That's what it used to say. It now says evidence indicates that some of the principles involved in this revelation were known by the prophet earlier. So not as early as 1831. But also, you know, one of the, one of the problems with pegging it to 1831 is you're saying that that thought had never crossed Joseph's mind before that. Right. And since you don't actually have a document that says when Joseph understands this, you do have other people Secondhand accounts of people who say, well, Joseph told me that when he was translating the Old Testament, this and that. Right? So you have later accounts of when people are saying, clearly Joseph Smith understands the principle of plural marriage before July 12, 1843, because he's already marrying people before July 12 of 1843. He's already in his own plural marriages before July 12, 1843. And when we have our record of this revelation being written down, it's the writing down of it July 12th of 1843, not when Joseph first received it. I mean, Joseph could have been thinking about these things as early as translating the Book of Jacob in the Book of Mormon in 1829. He could have been thinking about these things as early as receiving the Book of moses in. In 1830. One of the reasons why I think 1831 became a little bit problematic is a lot of that, I think, was tied to what W.W. phelps claimed happened in July of 1831. We've actually referenced it on this podcast before that, in July of 1831. So very early in the church, Phelps claimed that Joseph received a revelation that commanded them, even though they were married men, to marry among the Lamanites and Nephites, to marry among the Native Americans. And he also claimed after that. So he claims that there's a revelation, he claimed after that, that about three years after this was given, I asked brother Joseph privately, how is it that we are mentioned in the Revelations, could take wives from the natives, as we are all married men. He replied instantly, in the same manner that Abraham took Hagar and that Jacob took Rachel and Billah and Zilpah by revelation. So this is recorded in a letter that W.W. phelps writes to Brigham Young, August 12, 1861. So he is looking back on what he says happened 30 years earlier. Now, I am not saying that it didn't happen, but the way that he writes this out, he writes it out as a revelation that's versified. I mean, it's. It is. It looks like it's coming out of the Book of Commandments and Revelations. It is ready to rock and roll. But even Phelps himself, in presenting this to Brigham Young, says, I have the pleasure of sending you the substance of a revelation by Joseph, meaning this was the gist of it, even though it's phrased as if it was literally written down by Joseph.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

So what you're saying makes a lot of sense. It seems like, though, like anything polygamy related that critics of this would point to. Oh, so they're softening this Instead of the date to say earlier, instead of. It seems like that critics might pounce on something like this.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Oh, for sure. I mean, at the same time, like, okay, so let's say you're a member of an apostate group or you're a member of the church who's about to become an apostate because you believe the church is lying about Joseph Smith practicing plural marriage and that Brigham Young was a false prophet. And yet somehow we still have a true prophet today, even though those keys go through Brigham Young. It's very. It's a very convoluted mess that you end up in when you try to make those arguments. But there are multiple prominent apostate groups right now that make the argument that Joseph Smith never taught or practiced polygamy. They will certainly say, ah, yes, they're doing this to, you know, to soften, to ease us into eventually the church saying that Joseph Smith never taught it at all. Well, the easiest way to do that would be to not have Doctrine and Covenant Section 132 as Scripture, because the section heading, which is not scripture, has no bearing on whether or not this is scripture. It was so difficult for people to believe that some people gave away their membership over it. There is no possible way that hell doesn't exist, because every Christian who's ever lived says that it does, and now Joseph Smith says that it doesn't. Well, obviously, you know, people would say, well, polygamy is much. That's much more difficult. Well, it's honestly not that much more difficult. In fact, if you had to weigh the two together, claiming that eternal hell doesn't exist. I mean, Martin Luther even opines that plural marriage is ratified by the Bible, right? But he isn't going to opine that hell doesn't exist. Hell not existing is the most radical of those two viewpoints, right? If you're going to say, like, there's no possible way that God would ever command anyone to practice polygamy. The problem is the Bible exists. I heard a very popular street preacher. He's all over the Internets and the YouTubes. He's popular guy. And he made the statement, you know, how could polygamy be true? You know, where. Where in the Bible does it say that you can practice polygamy? And I thought to myself, man, what a crazy argument for someone who's claiming. Because this guy is all about every word in the Bible is actual, absolutely written by God. Really? A better question would be, so since the cultures involved in the time of the Bible being written are all polygamous cultures. If God has a problem with it, period, why isn't there a single verse in the Bible in which God says, no one is ever allowed to practice this, ever, Including Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and also Moses and Isaiah. Right.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Versus. Versus the bishop of, you know, the husband of one wife, which they.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah. Which is a really weird thing to write. Why in the world would you write they should be the husbands of one wife? Are you. Are you baptizing people that have more than one wife? It would be a very weird commentary to make. Like, it would be like me saying, like, look, when you call a bishop, he has to be. Guys, he needs to be someone who believes in the Book of Mormon. Okay? No, no, he. Look, he's got to have a testimony of the Book of Mormon or he can't be a bishop.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

He can't chop wood for the church, or he can't buy stock in the.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Yeah, yeah, he's got it for the Nauvoo House. I mean, it's a very. And you can run this through ChatGPT and Grok and all those, and you'll find that while it will initially say, oh, yeah, the Bible is totally against plural marriage, that if you ask the question, well, show me where it can't. That it'll come back eventually and say, well, it's a cultural thing, because the Bible, at the very least, does not make any pronouncements against plural marriage. In reality, some of the Mosaic law talks exactly about how to deal with plural marriages. And so, look, this is not a pro plural marriage advocacy show. That's a different podcast. That's for after we get excommunicated. But the. It is a very destructive and seductive argument that is being made by many people. And the sad part is that there are very good people believing people, people who want to do what's right, who themselves are very uncomfortable with polygamy. Look, every person should be uncomfortable with polygamy. If you're not uncomfortable with it, then I have to start asking questions about what part of, you know, of Orderville do you live in? Right. I mean, because if. If you have no discomfort over it at all, that's very weird, because in America, in Canada, in the Western hemisphere, in Europe, polygamy is seen as something that is horrifically wrong always. Now, that same culture has no problem at all with infidelity. Rampant infidelity, that. Oh, yeah, sure, you probably shouldn't do that, but there's nothing horrific about it. And so it is a very natural reaction to feel very uncomfortable about plural marriage. That's why the church produced its Gospel topics essays about it. So here's the problem. When we have a discomfort about some aspect of what the church teaches, that's when someone can come along and say to you, oh, I love Joseph Smith. Oh, I love the Book of Mormon. Nothing matters to me more than the Gospel. The Gospel is the most important thing to me in the world. And, oh, by the way, you know, they found that Joseph Smith never practiced polygamy, Right? And then they'll take you to a YouTube channel, which will not have a historian on it. Well, it'll have someone claiming they're a historian. And what they mean by that is, I like history and I'm talking about it. But they won't have a PhD historian. They'll show a couple of documents and they'll say, see? See? Joseph never taught it. And then they'll go on to malign the dozens and dozens and dozens of men and women who testified that Joseph Smith taught them to practice plural marriage. The very women that they claim they care about, they will call liars because they say that God told them to practice plural marriage. So please don't fall under that seduction. I know it's seductive. It's the most seductive when someone is telling you exactly what you want to hear. Just like the saints who were told by Hyrum Page's revelations that they wouldn't have to move to Missouri. That's the Richard right now, that'd be the most seductive thing you'd ever hear. Hey, Richard, you don't have to move to Kansas City.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Yeah, right now. Yeah.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

That's about the best this moment. Richard's now on board. He's now a part of an apostate group. Just because of that. I mean, and I don't want to make light of it because I know it's deadly serious for a lot of people. I think almost everyone listening knows someone who might be struggling with this. And you need to know when someone says, oh, look at the new documents, there is nothing new. These arguments that Joseph Smith never taught or practiced polygamy, that Doctrine and Covenant Section 132 is somehow a forgery, and on and on and on. Those were all made by the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints for a hundred years. Guess who no longer makes those arguments? The Reorganized Church. They don't make them because they're not historically viable arguments to make. But people who haven't heard them before think, wow, this is a really good argument. And the person who I'm Talking to. They just keep saying how they know the Holy Spirit's told them. And they really strongly believe in the Book of Mormon. Remember that all of the people that have been deceived in this dispensation, many of them the ones that have been truly deceived, they think that they're doing right. That's what being deceived is all about. That's why God told us, you follow the prophet, you don't follow me. You don't follow some YouTube sensation, you don't follow a TikTok reel, you don't follow some really cool influencers, some great religion professor who sounds really smart. The prophet of God is the only person who has the ability to determine what scripture is and what the doctrine of the Church is. And that prophet and every prophet since Joseph Smith has said that section 132 is a revelation from God and a scripture. And that's what all of the historical evidence points towards, that Joseph Smith received revelation to practice plural marriage. It's what all of the religious evidence points towards, and it's what the key holders of this dispensation continue to maintain. So, yeah, they might have taken the word earlier, as early as 1831 out, so that we're no longer pegging it to a certain date, but the very fact that that's all they changed is kind of a reiteration that this is still scripture. So don't let someone who claims they have your best interests try to talk you out of what the Church just released through its prophets. So I think that we've covered a lot. We've probably gone way over time. Richard, are we always over time?

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

We are over time, but that was. That was. That was great. It was very helpful to get the additional context for the. Some of the different headings.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

And now you get to put the word polygamy in the. In the title. And it'll drive sales.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

We get way more hits.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

So I'm sure that that's what Hug Hess wants. They want the title to be Hug Hess and polygamy. Is that. Is that what.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

We're going to bury one of them. We're not. We're not going to do.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Okay, well, we're not burying polygamy, so thank you so much for joining us. And we. We promise. We shouldn't promise. We are going to get back to who's dead and in hell at some. Soon. Soon.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

You're close to wrapping it up, Garrett.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Like, we're within seven episodes of finishing.

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

We're. We're by. In 20 by sometime in 2026, we're going to know.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

I mean, the ride's been fun, though. Everyone wants to know who. Who got condemned to hell. And I was ready to. I was ready to read William Smith's Remonstrance to the Congress. Yeah, didn't everybody want to hear that?

[Dr. Richard Leduc]

Everyone still does.

[Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat]

Well, maybe next time, maybe not. We won't even promise it anymore because something else might happen between now and then. So, thank you so much for joining us.

[Narrator]

Thank you for listening to the Standard of Truth podcast, hosted by historic historian Dr. Garrett Dirkmot and Dr. Richard Leduc. If you know of anybody that could benefit from the material in this episode, please share it with them. Until next time.