Standard of Truth – S5E50 "Dead and NOT in Hell, Alvin Smith"

Hosts: Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat & Dr. Richard Leduc
Date: December 4, 2025

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode explores the story of Joseph Smith’s brother Alvin, the question of salvation for those who die without gospel ordinances, and the development of key Latter-day Saint doctrines about the afterlife. Using the context of Doctrine and Covenants Section 137, the hosts discuss how Joseph Smith’s personal wrestle over his brother’s fate led to revelatory breakthroughs, and how faith can persist even amid theological contradictions and unanswered personal questions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sports Banter & Listener Emails (00:37–05:46)

• Lighthearted intro about college football’s playoff rankings, with humorous critique of team records/biases.
• Acknowledgment of the volume of listener emails, especially from missionaries, and playful suspicion of “in labor” emails.

2. Context: Doctrine and Covenants Sections 137 & 138 (05:46–09:02)

• Section 137 (added in 1981) records Joseph Smith’s vision of the celestial kingdom (January 1836).
• This passage is foundational for LDS understanding of postmortem salvation.
• Dr. Dirkmaat: "I love Doctrine and Covenants Section 137...this is one of my favorite, favorite examples of Joseph Smith." (05:46)

3. Alvin Smith’s Death and Joseph’s Grief (09:02–15:11)

• Alvin, Joseph’s beloved older brother, died before the Book of Mormon’s translation or the church’s organization.
• Early 19th-century medicine (bleeding, calomel/mercury) likely hastened his death, leading Joseph to distrust doctors.
• Joseph was “very troubled” by Alvin’s death and the theological implications for his soul.
• Dirkmaat: "He felt the loss of Alvin very deeply." (13:14)

4. Theological Crisis: Is Alvin in Hell? (15:11–19:57)

• At Alvin’s funeral, a local Presbyterian preacher asserted Alvin would go to hell for dying unbaptized, reflecting Calvinist predestination beliefs.
• The hosts clarify that, in Calvinism, absence of baptism was seen as evidence of being outside the elect, even if baptism itself wasn’t considered spiritually effective.

5. Doctrinal Developments—Baptism and Salvation (20:35–28:07)

• D&C 76 (1832) revealed degrees of heaven, but baptism still required for the Celestial Kingdom.

• When Joseph saw Alvin in the Celestial Kingdom in his 1836 vision, he was shocked:

  • Quote: "I marveled how it was that he had obtained an inheritance in that kingdom, seeing he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel a second time and had not been baptized." (23:48)

• Key Insight: Joseph was faithful even without comforting personal revelation about Alvin, highlighting that prophets do not know all things ahead of time.

6. Revelation “Here a Little and There a Little” (28:07–30:12)

• Members and leaders alike must at times hold doctrinal contradictions in tension while waiting for further light.

• Baptism for the dead, revealed four years later, would resolve the issue: everyone could receive necessary ordinances after death.

• Dirkmaat: "God gives here a little and there a little...some questions that we don't have answers for, I have no doubt in the next life will be resolved in a similar way." (29:33, 29:40)

7. Faith Amid Contradiction and Waiting for Answers (30:12–37:19)

• Joseph and early Saints had to trust God’s goodness despite apparent contradictions.
• Modern parallels: Church members today sometimes face apparent contradictions or unanswered doctrinal questions.
• The process of faithful patience and seeking is compared to Abraham’s (and Adam’s) faithful obedience without knowing God’s reasons.

8. The Suffering of the Early Saints & Purpose of Life (39:04–43:26)

• Example: Amanda Barnes Smith, who lost her husband at Haun’s Mill but found peace in his dying in faith rather than apostasy.

• Dirkmaat: "That takes a kind of faith that I think is very difficult to get to. But it comes through sacrifice." (41:12)

• Suffering in this life is not always resolved here—perfect justice and compensation await in the next life.

• Christ’s words: “In the world you will have tribulation...but fear not, I have overcome the world.”

9. Listener Email: Family Lore, Baptism Records, and Faith Questions (43:41–61:42)

• Fun banter about an email from a listener “in labor,” with playful skepticism about its timing.

• Family History Inquiry: Listener asks if their ancestor, Talitha Cumi Garlick, was actually baptized by Joseph Smith (April 7, 1840).

  • Dirkmaat: There are gaps in baptism records from that period; autobiography claims Joseph baptized her after she insisted on meeting him, and Joseph did preach that day, so it’s possible but unverifiable.
  • Reveals a fascinating letter from Talitha requesting to join a plural marriage—a rare instance of a woman actively seeking plural marriage.

• Personal/Spiritual Question: How to deepen heart-felt connection to God when faith feels intellectual or distant.

  • Dirkmaat: Serving others is what helps restore connection and feel God’s love.
    • “When I have had times in my life where I have felt like God is distant...the thing that gets me close again...is trying to serve other people. And when I'm doing that service, I feel the love of God for them in the service I'm doing.” (60:03)
  • Leduc: Echoes that serving others, as in temple work, is when he feels closest to God.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Doctrinal Contradiction:
  "It's not possible that Alvin can be in the celestial kingdom without being baptized. And at the same time that baptism is a requirement...you can trust in the things that God has already revealed and patiently wait upon the Lord for further light."
  — Dr. Dirkmaat (26:14; 27:42)

• On Faith and Suffering:
  "Don’t throw away your testimony because you haven’t got an answer on a topic that you really want answered. Joseph Smith before you went a decade and a half...not knowing the ultimate end of his brother — and that’s with being the prophet, seer, and revelator of God."
  — Dr. Dirkmaat (35:48)

• On Service and Divine Connection:
  “When I have had times in my life where I have felt like God is distant...the thing that gets me close again is trying to serve other people.”
  — Dr. Dirkmaat (60:03)

• On Saints’ Suffering:
  "That takes a kind of faith that I think is very difficult to get to. But it comes through sacrifice."
  — Dr. Dirkmaat (41:12)

Important Timestamps

• 05:46 – On D&C 137 & Joseph’s vision of the celestial kingdom
• 09:02 – The death of Alvin Smith and historical context
• 13:14 – Joseph’s deep grief and mistrust of 19th-century medicine
• 15:11 – Theological crisis at Alvin’s funeral; Calvinist beliefs
• 23:48 – Joseph’s shock at seeing Alvin in the celestial kingdom
• 26:14–27:56 – Holding doctrinal contradiction in faith
• 32:43 – Canonization of D&C 137 and openness to further revelation
• 41:12 – Amanda Barnes Smith and faith amid tragedy
• 43:41 – Listener email: Talitha Cumi–family story and church records
• 60:03 – Faith and feeling God’s love through service

Tone & Style

• Relaxed, humorous, and conversational, with deep dives into both doctrine and history.
• Honest about uncertainty, gaps in records, and faith challenges.
• Encouraging toward listeners experiencing doubt or waiting for spiritual answers.