Transcript

Narrator (0:01)

Welcome to the Standard of Truth podcast. In this podcast, Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat and Dr. Richard Leduc explore the early history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the life and teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith. They examine the original historical sources and provide context for events of the past. They approach the history of the church with faith, expertise and humor.

Dr. Richard Leduc (0:29)

Foreign.

Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat (0:38)

Hi, welcome to another episode of the Standard of Truth podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Garrett Dirkmont, and I am joined by my friend, Dr. Richard Leduc.

Dr. Richard Leduc (0:46)

Hello, Garrett. Thanks for having me back. Really excited to jump into some of the emails that we get and some of the questions that we've received. As soon as we talk about College Football Playoff and the NFL playoffs. About 45 minutes.

Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat (1:02)

Yeah, maybe we should just do a spin off podcast that's called what We Got Wrong About Football last Week.

Dr. Richard Leduc (1:11)

I. I was just telling you before, so I'm a Bears fan and I threw my hat down in disgust. Kind of like in like the 20s when they lose a bet on a horse or something, you know, just like, yeah.

Dr. Richard Leduc (1:24)

Did you rip up your racing form and.

Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat (1:26)

And say, I don't know about this. This is obviously, the mom's involved.

Dr. Richard Leduc (1:31)

I was so angry on the third quarter interception in the red zone. And I just, I left and I ran errands for my wife at Winco and other places because I didn't want to watch the game anymore. And I was so angry, I came home with five minutes left. I'm like, oh, hey, hey. All right. This looks pretty good.

Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat (1:49)

You didn't watch the epic comeback of your team?

Dr. Richard Leduc (1:53)

I watched the end of it.

Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat (1:56)

I was cheering for the Bears, for you.

Dr. Richard Leduc (1:59)

In fact, you sent me a text message that was like the two eyes that are, you know, really big and wide open. And I was like, huh, I should probably turn the game back on.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Standard of Truth – S6E3: Gadianton Robbers Part 1 (January 15, 2026)

Hosts: Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat & Dr. Richard Leduc
Main Theme:
This episode blends humor and banter with a substantive exploration of Latter-day Saint (LDS) doctrines of the afterlife, focusing on folklore around the Gadianton Robbers' "hauntings" in Southern Utah and the unique LDS view of the spirit world. The episode arises from a listener’s question about claims that Gadianton Robber spirits linger in certain spots near St. George, and uses it as a launching point for a wide-ranging discussion on church history, afterlife theology, and apologetics within the faith.

1. Podcast Opening & Listener Banter

Email Segment & Football Banter (00:38–15:57)

The hosts open with light-hearted football commentary and jokes about losing bets, gambling (referencing Pres. Hinckley's counsel), and their personal playoff predictions.
Dr. Leduc jokes: “Good teams win. Great teams cover.” (02:54)
They also discuss the concept of live podcast events to raise money for sending Saints to the Kenya temple.

Email Readings & Community Connection (08:11–15:57)

The hosts read humorous listener emails, many involving ongoing jokes about podcast “rules” for email inclusion (such as being in labor during submission), and requests for podcast merch.
On childbirth:

“We’ve gotten so many people that are literally only having children just so they can get on the podcast...” – Dr. Dirkmaat (09:15)
On merch:

“We should just start making buttons...like ‘I like Ike.’” – Dr. Leduc (10:21)
Warm congratulations offered to listeners sharing updates on family and missionary service.

2. Critical Listener Questions & Apologetics

Latter-day Saint Apologetics: Challenging Questions (21:41–34:24)

A listener asks for the most “legitimate” or serious arguments against the Church or God in general, and how the faithful might address them.

Key Points:

Most anti-church arguments are weak and easily debunked, but some philosophical challenges are tougher:
- The Problem of Evil:
  
  “There is so much suffering and inequality in the world…there really isn’t a good answer for this.” – Dr. Dirkmaat (24:20)
- LDS advantages: Unique belief in premortal existence, agency, and eternal progression.
- The hosts argue ‘suffering’ is the deepest and most persistent challenge for any believer.
On apologetic priorities:

“For Latter-day Saints, every person who has ever lived on this earth, knew exactly what they were getting into in terms of coming to a fallen world...” – Dr. Dirkmaat (31:48)
Dr. Dirkmaat underscores that LDS doctrine—especially teachings on the premortal life and proxy ordinances—addresses suffering and the afterlife with more nuance than most Christian denominations.

3. Main Topic: Gadianton Robbers, Spirit World & LDS Afterlife Theology

Listener Question: The Gadianton Robbers in Utah Folklore (36:17–41:16)

A Southern Utah listener asks about the folk belief that Gadianton Robber spirits haunt the region, citing rumored Brigham Young sermons referencing their presence.
The narrative is woven with local geography humor and speculation about Arizona highway patrol, with playful skepticism about the prevalence of these stories.
The question is used to bridge into LDS teachings on death and the afterlife.

LDS Teachings on the Spirit World (45:35–64:34)

Key Discussion Points:

The Spirit World is Nearby
- LDS doctrine—as reflected in “Gospel Principles,” President Benson, Brigham Young, and Joseph Smith—holds that spirits of the dead remain on or near the earth, not in a distant “heaven” or “hell.”
  
  “President Brigham Young taught that the post mortal spirit world is on earth around us. Now this is radical...whether you are the spirit who is in a body right now or whether you have been disembodied by death…this earth is not just the mortal realm, it’s the spirit world.” – Dr. Dirkmaat (50:01) “Suppose the Lord should touch your eyes that you might see. Could you then see the spirits? Yes—as plainly as you now see bodies...” – Brigham Young, quoted by Dr. Dirkmaat (51:32)
Spirits Retain Their Character
- Echoing the Book of Mormon (“that which is filthy is filthy still”), the hosts explain that who you are in life substantially remains the same after death.
  
  “You don’t change when you die. This is sometimes a very difficult doctrine for people to accept…” – Dr. Dirkmaat (52:37)
Afterlife is about Progression & Work
- Spirits continue God’s work on “the other side.” Righteous spirits are “exalted to a greater or more glorious work,” often engaged in aiding the gospel effort.
  
  “He had had revelations concerning his departure and had gone to a more important work…” – Joseph Smith, quoted at Judge Adams’ funeral (55:25)
- Spirits are, at times, aware of and pained by the actions of the living (“they know and understand our thoughts, our feelings and motions, and they are often pained there with”). – Joseph Smith, quoted (55:25)
Proxy Work & Prison Ministry
- Joseph Smith is quoted on baptisms for the dead and the fate of those in “spirit prison,” denouncing claims that baptizing for the dead should be limited to those you knew personally:
  
  “I intend to send men to prison to preach to them...they must receive the Holy Ghost by proxy and be sealed by it…” – Joseph Smith, paraphrased (63:00)
- LDS doctrine posits that spirits can accept the gospel after death through proxy ordinances on earth.
Comparison with Broader Christianity
- Hosts note the lack of explicit afterlife details in the New Testament, the unsatisfying logic of “double judgment” (immediate heaven/hell, then resurrection/judgment), and the Catholic/purgatory workaround.
- Latter-day Saints’ unique vision of a spirit world allows for preparation, repentance, and progression after death.
- LDS belief is that the spirit world is temporary, neither the eternal heaven nor hell of traditional Christianity; it is a place of both suffering (for the wicked) and peace (for the righteous), pending resurrection and final judgment.

4. Tone, Humor & Running Jokes

The episode is laced with humor, self-deprecation, and recurring inside jokes (especially about podcast "rules," labor, the “Phoebe Draper Palmer Brown mailbag,” football, gambling, and Utah geography).
Quote on the nature of their show:

“It’s the most man thing. I could have said no epidurals moving forward...” – Dr. Leduc (09:42)
Self-aware chuckles about their tendency to meander:

“Occasionally tell me about church history.” – Dr. Leduc, quoting a listener (12:31)
Closing remarks riff on "hate-listening," live events, and the anti-climactic fears of haunted hiking trails.

5. Timestamps for Key Segments

Football Banter, Live Events: 00:38–08:11
Emails, Merchandise, Labor Rule Jokes: 08:11–15:57
Legitimate Arguments Against the Church/God: 21:41–34:24
Listener Folklore: Gadianton Robbers in Southern Utah: 36:17–41:16
LDS Doctrine of the Spirit World: 45:35–64:34
Joseph Smith on Proxy Work for the Dead: 63:00–64:34

Notable Quotes & Attribution

“For Latter Day Saints, every person who has ever lived on this earth, knew exactly what they were getting into in terms of coming to a fallen world when they chose to follow the Savior’s plan...”
– Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat (31:48)
“President Brigham Young taught that the post mortal spirit world is on earth around us. Now this is radical.”
– Dr. Dirkmaat (50:01)
“Suppose the Lord should touch your eyes that you might see. Could you then see the spirits? Yes—as plainly as you now see bodies…”
– Brigham Young, recounted by Dr. Dirkmaat (51:32)
“You don’t change when you die. This is sometimes a very difficult doctrine for people to accept…”
– Dr. Dirkmaat (52:37)
“Spirits…are not far from us. And they know and understand our thoughts, our feelings and motions, and they are often pained therewith.”
– Joseph Smith, quoted (55:25)

Conclusion & What’s Next

The episode ends by promising a deeper dive into the LDS afterlife—the intermediate spirit world, and the fate of both “righteous” and “wicked” spirits—in Part 2.

“We’re going to talk more about that next time. We’re going to leave everybody wondering whether or not they need to duck off into Littlefield to avoid some gaddy and spirits.” – Dr. Dirkmaat (65:34)

Overall:
A characteristically irreverent-yet-faithful episode, blending inside jokes with in-depth doctrine, and explaining why Latter-day Saint beliefs about the spirit world are both distinctive and theologically rich.

wavePod

S6E3 Gadianton Robbers Part 1