Transcript

Narrator (0:01)

Welcome to the Standard of Truth podcast. In this podcast, Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat and Dr. Richard Leduc explore the early history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the life and teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith. They examine the original historical sources and provide context for events of the past. They approach the history of the church with faith expertise and humor.

Katie Barnes (0:28)

Foreign.

Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat (0:37)

Hi. Welcome to the Standard of Truth podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Garrett Dirkmont, and I am joined by my friend, Dr. Richard Leduc.

Dr. Richard Leduc (0:45)

Hello, Garrett. I'm still alive. Thanks for having me back.

Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat (0:48)

Well, it was touch and go.

Katie Barnes (0:50)

We still have two passwords to figure out and then we can drop the boom.

Dr. Richard Leduc (0:56)

It was funny. So I was working on it Saturday afternoon, and you were getting a flurry of texts from me, and you're like, wait, what's going on? Passwords.

Katie Barnes (1:06)

Hey, Richard, we weren't really planning to.

Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat (1:08)

Kill you, but I woke up with some.

Dr. Richard Leduc (1:11)

I woke up with some abdominal pain and I'm like, I gotta get this over to Garrett. I gotta. I gotta save the podcast. Well, it's great to be back. Excited. I know we've got a little bit of a finish up on some Gaddy Anton talk.

Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat (1:26)

We've got some Gaddy Anton stuff going on. We've got. I mean, clearly the super bowl is coming up, so we got to make our picks.

Dr. Richard Leduc (1:32)

Our picks.

Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat (1:33)

Yeah, We've got to continue our winning streak from the national championship game.

Dr. Richard Leduc (1:40)

Yeah, we do have that. We now have kind of something to play into making those picks. So I don't know if you want to jump into that straight away or what You.

Dr. Garrett Dirkmaat (1:55)

Wow. Yeah, well, yeah, let's do. Let's start right off so that everyone thinks this isn't a church show.

Summary

Standard of Truth Podcast

S6E6 – Gadianton Robbers Part 4 (Heavenly Travel)

Host: Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat
Co-host: Dr. Richard Leduc
Date: February 5, 2026

Main Theme

This episode weaves humor, listener questions, and doctrinal exploration to investigate what Latter-day Saint prophetic teachings reveal about the spirit world—including personal and “heavenly” travel, the persistence of individual identity after death, and the continued presence and influence of evil spirits (notably those likened to “Gadianton robbers”). Through historical sermons, especially those of Brigham Young and Wilford Woodruff, Dr. Dirkmaat and Dr. Leduc reflect on how understanding our relationship with the spirit world and unseen adversaries can deepen faith and resilience.

Key Segments & Insights

1. Listener Emails & Podcast Community (02:17–21:00)

Recurring Humor & Listener Connections:
- The hosts riff on Latter-day Saint culture, their "self-deprecating humor," and memorable listener stories—such as Rebecca, who listeners first heard from while she was in labor and who named her son Heber ("According to the Social Security Administration… there were 33 baby boys given that name in 2024." – [06:09], Dr. Leduc).
- Friendly banter about the rise in "Hebers" and nonsensical over/under wagers, poking fun at themselves for making Super Bowl-style predictions on a church history podcast.
Reflections on Missionary Listeners:
- The hosts note that many listeners are missionaries who often stop tuning in upon returning home ("We've learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all returned missionaries... they immediately begin [to] stop listening to the podcast." – [12:29], Dr. Leduc).

2. Surface Humor & Sports Picks (22:07–25:48)

The team jokingly makes Super Bowl and NCAA picks, noting the anomaly of such banter on a faith-focused podcast, expertly intertwining sports and self-awareness as an example of "church show" levity.

3. Heavenly Travel & the Nature of the Spirit World (25:54–45:44)

Wilford Woodruff’s Perspective ([26:54])

Quote:
"Death was a separation of friends here and a meeting on the other side of the veil. Births are a separation in the spirit world, while it is a joy here."
Insight:
The reversal of joy and separation at death and birth is highlighted, offering a lens into the spirit world's emotional realities.

Brigham Young on Spiritual Continuity ([31:03])

Quote:
“She has now gone to try the realities of another existence, to another department of the life and lives that God has bestowed upon his children. This life is preparatory to a more exalted state of existence…”
Insight:
Death is not a radical transformation but a continuation—"the lack of change that takes place when we die" ([28:08], Dirkmaat). This contrasts with typical Christian views of instant sanctification or transformation at death.

Heavenly Mobility & Experiential Knowledge ([36:10])

Quote – Brigham Young:
"If we want to behold Jerusalem as it was in the days of the Savior, or if we want to see the Garden of Eden as it was when it was created, there we are… So, first of all, as a devoted student of history, this is awesome… in the next life, I would have the ability to be like, I want to see the Battle of Waterloo..."
Insight:
The hosts delight in Brigham’s description of spirit world “travel,” suggesting that righteous spirits after death may be endowed with the power to witness any moment or place spiritually, likened to instantaneous travel ("like the light of morning," [38:10]; referencing "heavenly travel").

Interactions With Spirits & Gospel Preaching After Death ([52:38])

Quote – Brigham Young:
"The faithful elders who leave this world will preach to the spirits in prison… Every spirit will be preached to that has had a tabernacle and become accountable…"
Insight:
The prospect of continued learning, teaching, and progression in the afterlife, including missionary work among spirits, is affirmed.

4. Evil Spirits: Gadianton Robbers in the Spirit World (57:31–61:30)

Constant Adversaries
- Brigham Young repeatedly taught that "scores of evil spirits" roam the earth and the spirit world—including "spirits of the old Gadianton robbers"—seeking to influence mortals toward evil, sometimes with more "watchers" per righteous soul than a whole wicked city ([57:31]).
- Quote:
  "There are millions of those spirits in the mountains... ready to lead astray every man and woman that wishes to be a Latter-day Saint... You will see them as soon as your spirits are unlocked from these tabernacles…"
  —Brigham Young ([57:31])

Power Over Evil ([63:34])

Quote – Brigham Young:
"[We] have power over [the devil] which the rest of the world does not possess... When we rebuke those evil powers and they obey not, it is because we do not live so as to have the power of God, which is our privilege to have."
Insight:
Despite being surrounded by spiritual adversaries, covenanted saints have authority and power to resist and rebuke evil influences.

5. Faith, Testimony, and the Ongoing Battle ([66:43])

The hosts return to practical advice:
- Saints should not despair at the prospect of unseen enemies, but remember that their covenant relationship with God grants protective power.
- The "enemy" is real, but so is the power that comes through righteousness, study, and faith: "Remember who you are. You are a spirit child of heavenly parents who did not follow Satan... [who] said, I know that I'm going to struggle... but if that's the only way I can become like my Heavenly Father, then I'm going to go..." ([67:10], Dirkmaat).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

"Our trials are to make us perfect and to prepare us for the reward of the just."
— Brigham Young ([44:48])
"If we want to behold Jerusalem as it was in the days of the Savior... there we are."
— Brigham Young ([36:10])
"There are millions of those spirits in the mountains, and they are ready to make us covetous if they can... You will see them as soon as your spirits are unlocked from these tabernacles and you are in the spirit world, and you will there have to contend against evil spirits as we have to contend against wicked persons here."
— Brigham Young ([57:31])
"We have the power and right to rebuke those evil spirits. When we rebuke those evil powers and they obey not, it is because we do not live so as to have the power of God, which is our privilege to have."
— Brigham Young ([63:34])
"Remember, it's not just thoughts that pop into your head. There really is an enemy, an actual being from the unseen world as Joseph Smith described. But you can have power over those evil spirits, whether it's a million Gadiantons or one."
— Dr. Dirkmaat ([67:10])
[Humorous aside:] "I would go to the Michigan–North Carolina game when Chris Weber calls the timeout that they didn’t have. Would you try to stop him? I wouldn’t try to stop Abraham Lincoln’s assassin, I’d try to be like, 'Hey Chris, you are out of timeouts!'"
— Dr. Leduc/Panel ([37:37])

Episode Structure & Timestamps

| Time | Segment | Highlights | |----------|----------------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------| | 02:17 | Listener Emails | Heber baby name stats, missionary listening habits | | 22:07 | Sports Picks & Banter | Football humor, light-hearted transitions | | 25:54 | Heavenly Travel via Early Sermons | Wilford Woodruff & Brigham Young; reality of spirit world | | 36:10 | Exploring Spiritual Mobility | Brigham Young’s sermon on spirit "travel" | | 52:38 | The Spirit World’s Missionary Work | Teaching and agency after death | | 57:31 | Gadianton Robbers as Evil Spirits | Spiritual opposition and influence | | 63:34 | Power Over Evil | Authority of the Priesthood; practical faith counsel | | 66:43 | Faithful Resilience | Remembering identity and purpose amidst adversity |

Tone & Style

Conversational, witty, and grounded in faith
Frequent self-mockery and accessible explanations
Balanced between doctrine and jovial Latter-day Saint cultural references

Summary Takeaways

The spirit world is a continuity of life—not a mysterious, radically transformative existence, but a place of further growth, knowledge, and opportunity.
Both positive and negative spiritual influences persist after death; “Gadianton robbers” serve as a rich metaphor for the adversary and his followers' ongoing opposition.
Saints are admonished to remember their divine heritage and the power available to them through covenants and righteous living, ensuring “power over those spirits.”
The study and remembrance of revealed doctrine regarding the afterlife can offer profound comfort and empower faith—even (or especially) when humor lightens heavy subjects.

For listeners interested in early church history, Latter-day Saint doctrine of the afterlife, and how humor and faith intertwine in a scholarly context, this episode both entertains and edifies—offering scriptural, prophetic, and practical perspectives on the realities of “heavenly travel” and unseen adversaries.

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S6E6 Gadianton Robbers Part 4 (Heavenly Travel)