AGI, Immortality, & Visions of the Future with Adam Becker

Fri Nov 28 2025

Are we making science fiction a reality? Is that a good thing? Neil deGrasse Tyson, Chuck Nice, & Gary O’Reilly and guest Adam Becker, science communicator and author of More Everything Forever, discuss sci-fi dreams, tech-bro promises, and the real science shaping our tomorrow.

Transcript

Neil deGrasse Tyson (0:00)

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Brian Futterman (0:41)

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Chuck Nice (1:39)

Talk, but they spook me though with where they take the end of civilization.

Neil deGrasse Tyson (1:42)

But we don't know whose hands are on the steering wheel. We don't know who's shaping this future. And that's why there's concern.

Brian Futterman (1:49)

Well, I know who's shaping it and I'm scared to death.

Neil deGrasse Tyson (1:52)

It's you.

Chuck Nice (1:54)

Let's watch Ch Scared to death as we discuss all the ways tech will be shaping our future. Coming right up. StarTalk Special Edition. Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now. This is StarTalk Special Edition. Neil Degrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist. And when I say special edition, it means I turn to my right and Gary O'Reilly is sitting there.

Neil deGrasse Tyson (2:30)

Hi, Nick.

Chuck Nice (2:31)

Gary, hi. Where'd you get your British accent?

Neil deGrasse Tyson (2:34)

Summary

StarTalk Radio: AGI, Immortality & Visions of the Future with Adam Becker

Host: Neil deGrasse Tyson
Guests: Adam Becker, Chuck Nice, Brian Futterman, Gary O’Reilly
Date: November 28, 2025

Episode Overview

This StarTalk “Special Edition” episode dives deep into the grand technological dreams shaping our possible futures: AGI (Artificial General Intelligence), immortality, interplanetary civilizations, and the often outsized influence of Silicon Valley’s billionaires. Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson is joined by science popularizer and physicist Adam Becker (author of "What Is Real?" and "More Everything Forever"), with comic co-host Chuck Nice and the StarTalk crew. The conversation ranges from the technical hurdles of Mars colonization, to philosophical pitfalls of uploading consciousness, to the misunderstood lessons of science fiction, all with comedic wit and critical insight.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Allure & Pitfalls of Technological Utopias

Introduction of Adam Becker ([04:12])
- Becker brings a unique perspective: “You’re coming to it from a physicist with a philosophy flavor.” – Chuck Nice.
- Becker’s latest book, "More Everything Forever," investigates Silicon Valley's visions of AI overlords and humanity’s fate.
Tech Billionaires and Futurism
- Becker: “I read a lot of really bad writing by tech CEOs and people defending tech CEOs…” ([08:14])
- Most tech leaders declined interviews for Becker’s book, knowing he approached with journalistic integrity.
The Problem with Elevating Tech Leaders as Prophets ([29:44], [41:50])
- Becker argues many tech billionaires, like Musk and Altman, promote technological fantasies rooted in misunderstood science fiction and "incoherent" ideas about AI and immortality.

Realistic Obstacles to Space Colonization

Mars by 2050? Highly Unlikely ([10:09]–[13:10])
- Elon Musk’s dream of a million Martians by 2050 is “definitely not happening… Getting anyone to Mars by 2050 and bringing them back alive… would be incredibly difficult.” – Adam Becker ([10:18])
- Challenges: radiation (Mars lacks magnetic field/atmosphere), toxic Martian soil, food and oxygen logistics.
- “If Mark Watney really had to do all the stuff he did in [The Martian], he’d come home and be dead of cancer in a couple of years.” – Becker ([11:43])
Why the ISS isn’t Mars ([16:04])
- ISS astronauts are still shielded by Earth's magnetosphere—a key difference.
- On Mars, communication delays are 8–20 minutes each way; emergencies could require years to resolve or escape.
Falsities in Sci-Fi Pop-Culture Visions
- The notion you can “farm poop potatoes on Mars” is undercut by the discovery of perchlorates—“If you tried to farm poop potatoes on Mars, they’d be poisonous.” ([19:19])

Pursuit of Immortality & The Singularity

Biological vs Digital Immortality ([19:40]–[25:02])
- Practical hopes: organ replacement, delayed cell aging, healthspan extension.
- “But you can’t replace the brain.” – Becker ([20:00])
- Immortality dreams fixate on uploading consciousness (“the end game… is not just an extended lifespan, but real immortality by uploading their consciousness … into computers”).
Critique of the Singularity ([20:24]–[23:32])
- Ray Kurzweil’s notion of infinite progress through Moore’s Law is “based on a few really serious, like, flawed ideas. First, this idea that there is this single thing called intelligence. … That’s not really how intelligence works.” – Becker ([21:22])
- Exponential growth is never a permanent law – “the law of nature about exponential trends is they end.” – Becker ([26:52])
AGI: Reality Check ([29:19])
- Sam Altman (OpenAI) claimed AGI might appear within two years and solve climate change.
- Becker counters: “I’m pretty sure the first thing [an AGI] would do is say, ‘Well, you shouldn’t have built me.’” ([30:12])

Silicon Valley, Wealth, and Power

The “Evangelical Business Model” & AI Hype ([32:19]–[32:55])
- “It’s kind of like 21st century snake oil.” – Neil deGrasse Tyson
- AI is pitched as a universal problem-solver, but real issues like climate change are rooted in human behavior and greed: “We don’t need AI to tell us how to solve [climate change]… The issue is not technological. The issue is primarily… human behavior. It’s greed.” – Becker ([31:01])
Billionaires Escaping Earth ([33:11])
- “Are these people looking at us and going, you are completely screwed? … Why are they walking away?” – Tyson to Becker
- Becker: Some are cynical profiteers, others genuinely believe. By seeking utopias off-Earth, they avoid the “complicated and messy and difficult” task of fixing human problems here.
Power, Influence, and Hubris ([37:03])
- “For the billionaires controlling [AGI], it’s like a genie. And for the rest of us, it’s an overlord.” – Becker
- “Their hubris is their downfall.” – Brian Futterman ([37:14])
The Problem with Wealth Accumulation ([54:45]–[57:03])
- “The accumulation of wealth to a very few is always going to be a very bad thing for any society.” – Brian Futterman
- Chuck Nice and Futterman highlight the disproportionate power money brings—“Money is always… it is straight, hard power.”
Closing Diagnosis: Wisdom > Brilliance ([58:57]–[61:02])
- Tyson: “It comes down to… how wise we are in the face of our own creations… Wisdom, I think, is an undervalued factor in all the brilliance people are exhibiting… That is a dose of wisdom coupled with our ingenuity. I’d like to think there’s more of that in our future…” ([58:57])

Science Fiction: Cautionary Tale or Blueprint?

Misreading Sci-Fi as Prophecy
- “Science fiction shouldn’t remain fiction forever.” – Quoting Elon Musk ([47:27])
- But as Becker notes, much iconic sci-fi is dystopian (Blade Runner, Neuromancer, Metropolis): “When they say that they want to make science fiction into reality, we need to ask, okay, which ones? Cause if you wanna make Neuromancer a reality, man, that’s bad news for everyone who’s not you.” ([49:38])
Purpose of Sci-Fi ([39:11]–[50:05])
- “Star Trek was never really about space. It’s about us here now. … It was always an allegory and not even a particularly veiled one.” – Becker
- Sci-fi’s role is more alarm bell than roadmap: “A lot of [sci-fi] has always been about looking at the world as it is now and saying, okay, if we push that a little bit… maybe we can see it more clearly.” ([50:59])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“I got a better title. We’re F’d.” – Brian Futterman, on Adam Becker’s book ([05:03])
“If Mark Watney really had to do all the stuff he did in that movie, he’d come home and be dead of cancer in a couple of years.” – Becker ([11:43])
“The law of nature about exponential trends is they end.” – Becker ([26:52])
“It’s kind of like 21st century snake oil.” – Tyson ([32:31])
“For the billionaires controlling it, it’s like a genie. And for the rest of us, it’s an overlord.” – Becker ([37:03])
“Their hubris is their downfall.” – Futterman ([37:14])
“Star Trek was never really about space. It’s about us here now… It was always an allegory and not even a particularly veiled one.” – Becker ([39:11])
“We have the future in the palm of our hands. … It comes down to not how advanced the science is, … It has to do with how wise we are in the face of our own creations.” – Tyson’s parting thought ([58:57])

Timestamps for Major Segments

[04:12] – Adam Becker introduction & book discussion
[10:09] – Mars by 2050: the technical and biological challenges
[16:04] – ISS vs. Mars: why deep space is categorically different
[19:40] – Immortality dreams: biology, AI, and the singularity
[21:22] – Why the singularity and superintelligence are flawed ideas
[29:19] – Tech leaders’ fixation on AGI; will it really solve everything?
[32:19] – Are AI and tech promises largely a fundraising hype?
[33:11] – Billionaires “escaping” Earth: utopias or avoidance?
[37:03] – The genie and the overlord: power, hubris, and AI control
[39:11] – Star Trek, sci-fi, and reading fiction as allegory
[47:27] – Science fiction as both inspiration and cautionary tale
[54:45] – Problem of wealth concentration and societal power
[58:57] – Final thoughts: wisdom, ingenuity, and the future

Conclusion

This episode delivers a wide-ranging, entertaining, and critical look at futuristic dreams—debunking tech solutionism, highlighting the limits of science as literalized from sci-fi, and insisting on wisdom, humility, and a deeper understanding of human nature. Adam Becker underscores the gap between tech billionaires' ambitions and scientific reality, inviting listeners to question who shapes our future and for whose benefit. Neil deGrasse Tyson’s closing reflection presses for the importance of wisdom in directing humanity’s technological power—a cosmic perspective desperately needed as we shape what comes next.

Adam Becker’s latest book:
“More Everything Forever: AI Overlords, Space Empires and Silicon Valley's Crusade to Control the Fate of Humanity”
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