Asteroids Headed Towards Earth with Rick Binzel

Summary

StarTalk Radio Episode Summary: "Asteroids Headed Towards Earth with Rick Binzel"

Release Date: March 25, 2025
Host: Neil deGrasse Tyson
Co-host: Chuck Nice
Guest: Professor Richard (Rick) Binzel, MIT

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Introduction

In this captivating episode of StarTalk Radio, astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson teams up with co-host Chuck Nice and esteemed guest Professor Richard Binzel to delve deep into the intriguing and sometimes perilous world of asteroids threatening Earth. Professor Binzel, a retired planetary scientist from MIT and the inventor of the Torino Scale, brings a wealth of knowledge about asteroid detection, impact assessment, and the broader implications for our planet.

---

1. Meet Rick Binzel: The Man Behind the Torino Scale

Neil kicks off the episode by introducing Rick Binzel, highlighting his significant contributions to planetary science, including his role as a co-investigator on the OSIRIS-REx mission—the groundbreaking project that successfully returned an asteroid sample to Earth.

Notable Quote:
[04:12] Rick Binzel: “Osiris Rex was the touch and go that successfully returned an asteroid sample to the Earth.”

This mission not only marked a milestone in space exploration but also provided invaluable insights into the composition of asteroids, furthering our understanding of the solar system's building blocks.

---

2. Pluto, Charon, and the Mysteries of Albedo

The conversation shifts to Pluto, where Rick reminisces about his graduate school days and the pivotal discovery of Pluto's moon, Charon. By observing transits—where Charon passes in front of Pluto—Binzel was able to calculate Pluto's mass and size with greater accuracy. This led to a refined understanding of albedo, the measure of how much light a celestial body reflects.

Notable Quotes:
[09:02] Neil deGrasse Tyson: “And confess, Rick, that we got the mass for Pluto and was way littler than people wanted it to be.”
[14:17] Rick Binzel: “Albedo is a fancy name for reflectivity. Something with a low albedo doesn't reflect very much light and something with a high albedo reflects a lot of light.”

The revelation that Pluto has a higher albedo than initially thought meant that its size was overestimated when assuming lower reflectivity. This significant adjustment showcased the critical role of albedo in astronomical measurements.

---

3. Understanding the Torino Scale: Assessing Asteroid Threats

A major highlight of the episode is the introduction and thorough explanation of the Torino Scale, a 10-point system developed by Rick Binzel to quantify the impact risk posed by near-Earth objects (NEOs). The scale evaluates both the probability of an asteroid colliding with Earth and the potential damage it could cause.

Notable Quote:
[21:03] Rick Binzel: “The Torino scale is a 10 point scale from 0 to 10. 0 is really good and 10 is a really bad day for the dinosaurs.”

Binzel elaborates that the scale ranges from green (no threat) to red (certain impact with catastrophic consequences). This tool has become essential for astronomers and policymakers in prioritizing asteroid monitoring and potential deflection missions.

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4. Current Threat Assessment: Asteroid 2024 YR4

The discussion zeroes in on the asteroid 2024 YR4, which currently holds a 3 on the Torino Scale, categorizing it as a yellow alert—astronomers should monitor it closely but there's no immediate cause for panic.

Notable Quotes:
[24:00] Neil deGrasse Tyson: “We saw that it had a 1.3% chance of hitting us. What does that mean?”
[25:46] Neil deGrasse Tyson: “Were you able to get a pre discovery image of this asteroid?”

Rick explains that the 1.3% probability stems from the limited tracking window, making it difficult to predict its exact path far into the future. Efforts are underway to locate pre-discovery images to extend the observation period and refine its orbit, which could potentially reduce the uncertainty and likelihood of impact.

---

5. Apophis: From Threat to Scientific Opportunity

Rick Binzel recounts the history of Apophis, another asteroid that once peaked at 4 on the Torino Scale but was later downgraded as more data became available. The upcoming close approach of Apophis in 2029 offers a unique scientific opportunity to study its composition and behavior under Earth's gravitational influence.

Notable Quotes:
[38:20] Neil deGrasse Tyson: “Tell us what's the latest about Apophis? Isn't Osiris Rex visiting Apophis?”
[42:19] Rick Binzel: “NASA has approved that the next mission for this Osiris Rex spacecraft, which is now renamed as Osiris Apex, will visit Apophis.”

The Osiris-Apex mission aims to observe Apophis as it passes Earth, providing insights into asteroid structure and resilience against tidal forces. This data is crucial for developing future asteroid deflection strategies.

---

6. The Quest for Planet Nine: Unveiling the Unknown

Towards the end of the episode, the trio explores the enigmatic Planet Nine, a hypothesized planet lurking in the far reaches of our solar system. While evidence for its existence is based on gravitational influences observed in the Kuiper Belt, its actual detection remains elusive.

Notable Quotes:
[46:58] Chuck Nice: “It's a place where I'm doing fine. North Cloud nine. Okay.”
[47:10] Rick Binzel: “Planet nine is just some indications in the data that there may be something even further out in our solar system that's been tugging on some of these other asteroids out there.”

The search for Planet Nine underscores the dynamic and ever-evolving nature of astronomical research, highlighting how new discoveries continually reshape our understanding of the cosmos.

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7. The Significance of Asteroid Samples: Insights into Life's Origins

Reflecting on the OSIRIS-REx mission's success, Rick emphasizes the importance of studying asteroid samples to unlock secrets about the early solar system and the building blocks of life. The pristine conditions of these samples offer unparalleled information that meteorites on Earth cannot provide due to atmospheric contamination and degradation.

Notable Quotes:
[44:25] Neil deGrasse Tyson: “That was even expected though, right?”
[45:35] Neil deGrasse Tyson: “These asteroids harken from the beginning of the solar system, undisturbed by weather, erosion, contamination.”

The discovery of primitive carbon chemistry on asteroids like Bennu has profound implications for understanding the origins of life, suggesting that essential amino acids might have been delivered to Earth via celestial objects.

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Conclusion: The Ongoing Battle and Journey

As the episode wraps up, Neil praises Rick Binzel for his invaluable contributions and reiterates the importance of continuous monitoring and scientific investigation to safeguard Earth from potential asteroid threats. The collaboration between NASA and international space agencies exemplifies the collective effort required to address cosmic challenges.

Notable Quotes:
[50:38] Chuck Nice: “It also works when you're looking for a job.”
[50:49] Neil deGrasse Tyson: “Because I'm a galaxy guy, you know, large scale universe guy...”

Rick Binzel leaves listeners with a sense of awe and responsibility, emphasizing that while we have made significant strides in asteroid detection and analysis, the quest for knowledge and planetary defense is far from over.

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Closing Remarks

This episode of StarTalk Radio masterfully balances humor, expert insights, and scientific rigor to educate and engage listeners on the critical topic of asteroid threats and planetary science. Professor Rick Binzel's expertise provides a deeper understanding of how humanity can navigate the dangers and opportunities presented by the celestial bodies that share our solar system.

Final Quote:
[50:56] Neil deGrasse Tyson: “All right. All right. This has been StarTalk, the hazardous asteroid edition. Neil deGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist. Keep looking up.”

---

For those eager to delve deeper into the topics discussed, subscribing to SiriusXM Podcasts+ offers ad-free listening and early access to episodes. Stay informed and inspired by the wonders of the universe with StarTalk Radio.

Transcript

[Vicky Maroque]

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[Chuck Nice]

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[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Not every day you get to talk to someone who invented a hazard scale.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And studied the asteroids. Has an asteroid named after him.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And that's my man.

[Chuck Nice]

Yep. And that is this show. And you will find out we are all going to die eventually.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Coming up on StarTalk. Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now. This is StarTalk. Neil DeGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist, got with me, Chuck Knight. Chuck, baby.

[Chuck Nice]

Hey, what's happening here?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right. Co host, comedian.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You know what we're gonna talk about today?

[Chuck Nice]

What?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, my gosh.

[Chuck Nice]

Go ahead.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Hazardous asteroids, Pluto and Planet Nine.

[Chuck Nice]

So are we saying that Pluto and Planet Nine are just now demoted to hazardous asteroids? Cause, you know, they were a planet, you knocked them down, you know, humiliated them completely.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You're not over that. You still haven't gotten over that.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, no. And then it was like, okay, you're a dwarf planet. It was like, oh, at least I get to be a planet. Now you're just like, you know, what has this asteroid?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Well, while I have some expertise in this space, I don't have all the expertise I want for this show. Okay, so we went back, uh. Oh, one of my peeps. Okay, one of my people, all right, I got one of my people who invented the international scale to measure how hazardous an asteroid will be to life on Earth.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, that is a hell of a like quality to have on your resume, the business card.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You know, I tell you whether your ass is fried or not.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, that's amazing.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So let me introduce us all to Rick Binzel. Hey, Professor Richard Binzel. Rick, how you doing, man?

[Rick Binzel]

Hey, Neil, great to see you. Chuck, nice to see you.

[Chuck Nice]

Nice to see you.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yes. So you are retired now. Professor of planetary sciences at mit, which.

[Chuck Nice]

Stands for Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Thank you. That took you too long to.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, you know, I was gonna say something, smart ass, but you saw me bridling myself.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yes, you did bridle. You did bridle. And you are the inventor of this hazardous scale. Hazard scale, the Torino Scale. We'll get into that in a moment.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, I got my first question already.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right, You're a co investigator on Osiris Rex. Remind me, Rick, that was the mission that did the. Was that the one that did the touch and go?

[Rick Binzel]

Yes, Osiris Rex was the touch and go that successfully returned an asteroid sample to the Earth.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Back to Earth. So that's badass.

[Chuck Nice]

That's more than badass.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And we're find out if it had any bugs in it.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And. And of course, my boy has an asteroid named after him. 2873 Binzel. And that is not his password on his account.

[Rick Binzel]

No, sorry.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

He tells me that's not his password. Password. He's also a staunch Pluto lover.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, really?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So we had. We've had some dust ups in our day.

[Chuck Nice]

I can only imagine.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, put your thumb down, dude. So we're old friends, so we went to graduate school together.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We were in the same class in graduate school.

[Chuck Nice]

That's pretty, pretty cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's pretty cool.

[Rick Binzel]

And that was a previous millennium too?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, yeah, way back.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, since you were in school at the same time, what was the most advanced technological equipment that you had at your disposal when you were in school? Because that will give people a really.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I got one for you. Ready?

[Chuck Nice]

Go ahead.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

At the time you were able to visit someone's house, dial a set of Numbers. To forward your phone number to their phone number so that if someone was calling you at home, they could still reach you while you were at your dinner party.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So that you could get your phone number to follow you.

[Chuck Nice]

How telling. That's amazing. Yeah, it's like. It's.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You have thought that was good.

[Chuck Nice]

You can have your phone number follow you.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Correct call.

[Chuck Nice]

You can. You're forwarding your own calls to you.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Correct. Rick. What? Do you have an opinion on this?

[Rick Binzel]

You. You could connect to the. From your home, you could connect to the computer on campus by dialing. Literally dialing a phone, sticking it into a box that had two ear muffs to connect your phone receiver.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So the handset of the phone.

[Rick Binzel]

Yeah, handset of the phone into a. What was called an acoustic coupler. And you could talk to the computer on campus from your own home.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That was amazing.

[Chuck Nice]

That was amazing.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Amazing.

[Rick Binzel]

At 300 baud. 300 bits per second.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, my God. That's awful.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We were not streaming videos back then.

[Chuck Nice]

That's amazing.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You published a paper at age 15. I forgot about that.

[Chuck Nice]

What.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

What was that paper on?

[Rick Binzel]

I was on Asteroids, Neil.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, okay. He goes back.

[Rick Binzel]

Yeah, we. We had an experience of. Of a camp run by a Columbia professor named Joe Patterson. And he just reached out to high school kids, gave them this fantastic experience that was formative in our careers. And so many of those students became professors and professional astrophysicists. Anyway, so it was a super opportunity, and I haven't stopped since.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

There was a research project in that camp.

[Rick Binzel]

That's right. That's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so I attended the same camp, but not at the same time.

[Chuck Nice]

Not at the same time.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

But we didn't know each other at the time. We get into graduate school and we find out that the two of us, plus another person in our class were in that camp. All attended that camp. It was an astronomy camp called Camp Uranoborg.

[Chuck Nice]

Camp Uranoborg.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Do you know what Uranoborg is?

[Chuck Nice]

Historically, I believe it's the Borg ship. The Borg when you're on the Borg ship, you're on a Borg. You're on a Borg when you're on the Borg ship.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, that's a good one. That's good. No, but that's good. It was the observatory of Tuchel Bras. Oh, Tuchel Bras.

[Chuck Nice]

Tuchel Brah. That's your buddy.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's my man.

[Chuck Nice]

You like that dude?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

He got all the data on the planets, and so it was a camp, Ned. We lived nocturnally. We slept during the day and up during the night. It was totally geeked out. We're both 14 or 15, right?

[Rick Binzel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So, Rick, one other thing about your time in graduate school which betrays some of your affection for Pluto is Rick made, correct me if I got this wrong, he made the first measurement of the light dimming of Pluto's moon going in front of and behind Pluto.

[Chuck Nice]

So Charon transiting Pluto.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Correct. And that was the best evidence available at the time that the moon even existed.

[Chuck Nice]

Amazing.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And then isn't that what allowed people to calculate a true mass for Pluto and its size and all this?

[Rick Binzel]

That's right, Neil. When you have a body in space, unless you have something orbiting around it, you know, you use Kepler's third law to. To calculate the mass of the primary of the mass of the system.

[Chuck Nice]

What's Kepler's third law?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Please, dude, why do we have to explain that to you?

[Chuck Nice]

Just because, you know, for other people.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You want other people to know about.

[Chuck Nice]

Not me. I'm just saying some people might be wondering what Kepler's third law is.

[Rick Binzel]

All right, so Kepler's third law is a relationship between the orbital period of an object compared to the mass or the mass of the primary. The mass of the system. And so if you can measure the size of the orbit and the orbital period, you can calculate the mass of the system.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And confess, Rick, that we got the mass for Pluto and was way littler than people wanted it to be. Confess that right now on my show.

[Rick Binzel]

The mass of Pluto is what? The mass of Pluto.

[Chuck Nice]

Let me tell you something, Rick. You do great in Congress or in court.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That put you on Pluto's radar from jump street right there. So I was not surprised that he turned out to be a staunch Pluto lover his whole life because he birthed Pluto's mass.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, but by birthing Pluto's mass, you also birthed its demise. But go ahead.

[Rick Binzel]

So, Neil, I looked at Pluto for five years. I actually spent about 10 or 15 years total working on the Pluto system. But we started looking to see if we could detect this moon around Pluto about 1980. And, you know, it was a five year search of looking for these transits, and that didn't show up until 1985. And then they were continuing from about 1985 to 1990. It's the same technique that we use for looking at planets around other stars, of course, transiting exoplanets. But this was planetary transits, and we were kind of doing it before it was popular.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Now, Rick, you just reminded me of something. There was a fuzzy photo of Pluto. And there was a little bump on the edge of the. What is the circular outline? Just fuzzy, a little bump. And that was a hint if we believe the photo and the emulsion. Cause back when there was authentic photographs, if we believe that that meant maybe it has a moon. And I was just reminded that not all transits go exactly in front of the thing you want them to transit.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So if the angle is wrong, you're.

[Chuck Nice]

Not going to see it when you think you're going to see.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So that's why you were looking for it and you didn't see it for four years, because our sight line to it wasn't properly oriented yet. Is that, did you know that at the time what we.

[Rick Binzel]

Yeah, Neil, that's right. I mean, what we didn't know is we didn't know what that angle is or the inclination of the orbit. And so we didn't know when the Earth most of the motion around the, in this case was the Earth's motion around the Sun. We just simply didn't know what the inclination of the Charon's orbit, that's what we call the Moon today. We didn't know the inclination of Charon's orbit. So we didn't know when it would become edge on to the Earth. And you know, but going back to those bumps, Those, that was 1978, those were on glass plates. That's when telescopes. We didn't have CCDs, we didn't have those electronic detectors yet back in the day. Back in the day, you had to climb uphill in the snow both ways to get to the telescope.

[Chuck Nice]

Now that's when telescopes. Here's what you did. You put your head under a hood.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, this is the old man hour here. Okay.

[Rick Binzel]

So anyway, those bumps and those fuzzy images would move around and it moved around with about a 6.4 day period, which we knew was the rotation period of Pluto. So it all made sen. You know, we really didn't know and make sure that it wasn't some funny photographic effect until we got those transits in 1985. And those first transits were just along the top edge of Pluto, along the pole of Pluto. And so it was the beginning of a long series of these transits that we actually used to make the first maps of Pluto.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, because you can say how it dims or brightens as Sharon moves across it. So you get a blunt understanding of the reflectivity.

[Rick Binzel]

Exactly, exactly. So if it goes across a dark spot, the light doesn't change very much. But suddenly as the edge of the Moon goes across Pluto and you get a big light drop, then you know there's really high albedo spot underneath.

[Chuck Nice]

Very cool. Albedo.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I love that word.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's almost. Do you albedo.

[Chuck Nice]

I albedo now that you just made it creepy. You just made it very creepy.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's one. It's a. A fun word that gives no indication of what it means.

[Chuck Nice]

That's true, right? Yeah, you would never know what it was.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Tell us about albedo, Rick, because albedo is half your work, right?

[Rick Binzel]

Yeah. Albedo is a fancy name for reflectivity. Something with a low albedo doesn't reflect very much light and something with a high albedo reflects a lot of light. So ice is a very high albedo.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

A lump of coal has near zero albedo.

[Rick Binzel]

A few percent. Yeah, a few percent.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And a mirror or just a coat of white paint, but at very near 100% albedo.

[Chuck Nice]

All right, this is starting to sound very racist.

[Vicky Maroque]

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[E]

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[Rick Binzel]

When you join Metro plus tax for a limited time and subject to change max one offer per account.

[Chuck Nice]

Hello, I'm Vicky Maroque. Allan and I support StarTalk on Patreon. This is StarTalk with nailed grass Tyson. Let me ask you this. A long time ago, I read this article and I mean, it was long ago, and it talked about. Because you just said reflectivity and albedo, it talked about how Pluto was so reflective the way it was, that they were able to determine that. That's because it was mostly ice, which means it was a lot smaller than they actually thought because what you were seeing was more reflection than you were actual body.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

If you don't know anything about a cosmic object orbiting the sun, you'll make an assumption of what its albedo might be based on other albedos that you have measured, correct?

[Rick Binzel]

That's right. That's right. So when you first discover something, you make a best guess that it's albedo or reflectivity, and then maybe someday you get the actual measurements and you can refine it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right, so what was your first presumption of the albedo of Pluto?

[Rick Binzel]

Probably around 20, 20%.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. And so given its brightness, you would say if it's that bright and it's only reflecting 20% of the light, it must be this size.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And so now, given that it has an icy, more reflective surface than previously, its albedo jumped from 20% to what, into the 30s?

[Rick Binzel]

Maybe up to 40%.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. Factor two, almost.

[Chuck Nice]

That's a big.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah. So that's a big deal. That's a. That. That work? All right. All right. By the way, you're in my Pluto book. I mentioned you. I don't know if you remember that.

[Chuck Nice]

I believe the actual words were, take that, Rick.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Let's go back to asteroids. A big part of your career has studied asteroids.

[Chuck Nice]

Cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And you were at a conference in Torino, Italy, where you proposed a way to track how hazardous an asteroid might be. And it came to be known as the Torino Scale, which I have a.

[Chuck Nice]

Problem with because I understand that there's 28, 73 Benzo. Okay. And that's an asteroid named after you.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, why wouldn't it just be the Benzel Scale, since you're the guy that came up with it. Why so humble, man? You gotta. You gotta take it while you can get it, okay? Grab the gusto and the glory. Like, you know, we live in the time of Trump now, man. You gotta. You know what I mean? It's the best scale, the biggest, the most beautiful scale. It's wonderful. Like, you know, it can measure everything. It can measure everything. Not just asteroids. It's used by plumbers it's used by carpenters. It's the best. But why, why not, why call it the Torino Scale and not the Benzel scale?

[Rick Binzel]

Well, it is wonderful and it's the best.

[Chuck Nice]

I love it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Whoa.

[Rick Binzel]

Yeah. I'll just say the Torino Scale, or how we talk about asteroids is something that we have to do very internationally. And so the fact that it was adopted at the conference in Torino, you know, gave it more that international flavor.

[Chuck Nice]

It's my people, all scientists, you're all the same. Scientists are always sharing, sharing the glory and, and, and, and sharing the wealth with one another and collaborating with one another.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Don't say that like it's a bad thing.

[Chuck Nice]

Do you know, do you know what world you live in, is what I'm saying? No. That's fantastic. That's, I'm, I'm so happy for that.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Last I read up on this, but it's been a while, so forgive me if I misremember. This scale has multiple factors operating simultaneously, right? One of them is the risk that it will hit Earth. And two is how much damage will it create if it does. Ooh, those are combined into this one scale, Is that correct?

[Rick Binzel]

Consequences versus probability is the basis for.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

The scale, Rick, if memory serves, the Torino Scale, there's more going on than just a number. So remind me what you put into it.

[Rick Binzel]

First of all, the Trainer scale is a 10 point scale from 0 to 10. 0 is really good and 10 is a really bad day for the dinosaurs. And the way you calculate where an object falls on the Torino scale depends on the size or the consequences of what that object would be if it struck the Earth versus the probability that the currently current best estimate for the probability that it could impact the Earth. And so it's two dimensions, consequence and impact probability.

[Chuck Nice]

And is the scale pointed at specific asteroids that are out there or is it just a generalization for any body that's, that might come our way?

[Rick Binzel]

Well, it could apply to anything, but it really only matters for objects, the asteroids that have orbits that can come close to the Earth. If you're in the main belt between Mars and Jupiter, you know, it's, you're not going to bother the Earth.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You're a zero. You're a zero on the scale.

[Rick Binzel]

Yeah, they're zero. They're zero.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

How about your, the asteroid with your name on it? What's the hazard scale for that?

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, man.

[Rick Binzel]

Zero. Zero, I'm afraid. Or I'm happy to say.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, I was going to say, because that would.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You don't want the asteroid Benzel come and take it as eight.

[Chuck Nice]

And it's like, okay, this whole thing was rigged. He created the scale and now the asteroid.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

He's the one that's going to take us out.

[Chuck Nice]

Takes us out. The.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's a Lex Luthor move, right?

[Chuck Nice]

Exactly.

[Rick Binzel]

Yeah, yeah. You know, at the lowest level, you know, things are green. You have a green level, which means, oh, this is normal. We're going to find a lot of these. We're currently at that next level up, which is yellow, which just says these merit attention by astronomers. So that's what level three is, is merits attention by astronomers. And if the probability gets worse, we would go to orange, which means there's a possible threat here. And where we want to stay out of is the red zone of 8, 9, and 10, which means we have 100% probability of hitting the Earth. And now it's a matter of what would be the consequences. And those consequences depend on where the object lands. So we're in the yellow zone. We'd rather be green. And if we go completely to zero, that's just colorless. That's just the blank zero. And so we expect this object, the odds are greatly in our favor. We'll get it down to zero. We just have to keep watching it and refining that track and get the information we need to drive it down to zero.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So it's green, yellow, orange, red, four colors.

[Rick Binzel]

Correct.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Got it. Very simple.

[Rick Binzel]

And zero is no hazard, so that it doesn't even get a color.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So recently, 20, 24, Y, R4, the two letters and then the numeral has been in the news. By the way, it's one of, I think, tens of thousands of Earth crossing asteroids. So this one happened to be the one to talk about today.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We saw that it had a 1.3% chance of hitting us. What does that mean? If that number is given when you.

[Rick Binzel]

Discover an asteroid, you know, you're only seeing a tiny piece of the orbit as it's moving through space. And so, you know, we'd like to project forward, extrapolate that position, you know, for decades, if not centuries into the future, just to make sure that it's not going to intersect with the Earth. And we do that for every asteroid that's discovered.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

He didn't say, slam into Earth and kill us all.

[Chuck Nice]

Intersect.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Intersect, Right. It's a very dispassionate word.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, without a doubt.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, go on.

[Rick Binzel]

So we do it for every asteroid. Every time we discover an asteroid, we'd like to make sure that we know that one's on the good list and not on the naughty list. And in this case, we know this asteroid in the year 2032 and in fact every four years it comes somewhere near the Earth. But we find in 2032 it's going to come close to the Earth, probably about as close as the moon or closer. And we simply don't have enough precision in terms of how well we know where that asteroid is precisely going to be in 2032 or other decades in the future to know for sure that it's going to miss the Earth. And so because we know, because we can't say we're certain it's going to miss, it gets a probability of intersecting the Earth. So that's just simply where we are. It's really, that probability number is really a measure of, you know, what we don't know. It's not a measure what we know, it's what we don't know because we simply haven't been able to track this thing for very long.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Here's something that might be new to Chuck. Were you able to get a pre discovery image of this asteroid?

[Rick Binzel]

When we discover an asteroid that has some future chance of intersecting with the Earth, one of the tricks we can do is go back and see if it's shown up in images that we've taken of asteroid searches, you know, many years before. Because if we can find it like that, it was someone accidentally saw it four years ago but didn't measure it. That gives us another four years of an orbital length that we can use to calculate forward. And so these are called pre discovery images. And I know people have been searching the records for pre discovery images to get a longer track on this asteroid, but those haven't shown up. You know, the asteroid 2024 yr4 is simply a pretty small object. It's probably about 50 meters across, something like what Tunguska, Siberia observed experienced in 1908. And you know, for the longest time we never had the capability of even seeing these objects out in space at great distances. And it's simply our capabilities have just gotten so good that we're starting to see really small objects far away. And so we can start to make these extrapolations forward. And this is just the first probably many cases to come where our capabilities exceed the precision of computation. So we'll have, we'll have lots of these cases, I think, coming along.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So I posted a short video in a series that we do called what's up with that. And that's where my producers say, Neil, this is in the News. What can you tell us about that? I spent five or ten minutes, I commented that when you have an uncertainty of an asteroid risk of hitting Earth as time moves on, that uncertainty goes to one of two numbers. It goes to 100% or to zero once you have a tighter and tighter knowledge of its orbital path. And so recently it jumped from 1.3% to 2.3%. It's on its way towards 100. Rick, what's going on?

[Chuck Nice]

Protect us. And when do we need Ben Affleck?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, it's Bruce Willis.

[Rick Binzel]

Yeah. Know your disaster movie?

[Chuck Nice]

Yes. Dude, Mo, Ben Affleck was in that movie.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yes, he was, but he wasn't the hero.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, but I like Ben Affleck.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, fine. He was Batman. Don't confuse him with that.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, Batman I wouldn't call to save me from an asteroid. That is for sure. That's a Superman job. If ever.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

If ever. Right, Right. So. So is it. Is this on its way to 100%?

[Rick Binzel]

Yeah. So. Yeah. So, Neil, as you just said, ultimately when we get the final answer, we'll know it's either 0% or 100%. It either hits you or it misses you. And the odds are greatly in our favor about 50 to 1 right now that it's going to miss. So I like those odds. It turns out for this asteroid, the region of uncertainty is like this long spaghetti string that stretches from beyond the moon, basically all the way across the moon's orbit. And it happens to part of the string happens to lie on top of the Earth. And so that spaghetti string, and we use Italian pasta because it's the Torino scale, that spaghetti string will shrink as we get more and more data that that improved the track of the asteroid orbit. But until that spaghetti string shrinks and doesn't have the Earth underneath a piece of it, we can see that probability number bounce around. There's really no surprise there. And I'll just say that ultimately we'll get to the final answer and that uncertainty will shrink to the size of a grain, basically a tiny grain. And so the chances are that when we shrink that uncertainty region or that spaghetti string down to a single grain, that single grain could be further than the Moon. It could be somewhere between the Earth and the Moon. But the chances of that grain being on the Earth are just that few percent.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, but if it is on Earth, the grain could be on top of Hackensack, New Jersey or Hoboken, where you live.

[Chuck Nice]

Hoboken.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Hoboken.

[Chuck Nice]

And thank you for destroying where I live.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Often when we Think of an uncertainty. I think of a circle and is most likely to hit in the middle of the circle and less likely toward the edge. But what you're saying is, given its orbit and the orientations, the circle is now elongated, maybe to an ellipse. But this is a severe ellipse. It's so elliptical that it's a spaghetti strand. That's what you're telling me.

[Rick Binzel]

That's right. What we call the uncertainty ellipse has really just sort of flattened out into this very long string. It's like you take pasta and you keep stretching it and stretching it and this, this uncertainty region has just stretched out into this long spaghetti string.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, but is it linguine or fettuccine?

[Rick Binzel]

No, I thought it was linguine to start, but it's now getting so thinly stretched out. It's definitely spaghetti. And I don't think it's quite angel hair pasta yet, but definitely a spaghetti.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, Torino strikes again. Yes.

[Chuck Nice]

And what sauce is with this? I need to know. I need to know what sauce we're putting with this meal.

[Rick Binzel]

That's a personal choice.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay. Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right. So this is 50 meters across Tunguska scale. And by the way, we didn't have telescopes monitoring for killer asteroids in 1908. So this just hit the atmosphere and exploded on impact with our air, given how fast it's going. So without these telescopes, if this hit us, it would be just another surprise air blast. All right. But we are wise astronomers today. So my question is, if it does hit Earth, is there an easy rule of thumb for how big a crater a 50 meter asteroid would make?

[Rick Binzel]

Yeah, it's 10 to 20 to 1. So an object that, say, 1 km across would make a crater about 10 or 20 times that size. Fortunately for 20, 24 yo4, it's about 50 meters across. And that's right at the size limit where the atmosphere most likely will protect us from it ever reaching the ground. It depends on the entry angle into the atmosphere, you know, as to how much resistance the atmosphere puts up. And so in all likelihood, this will break apart in the atmosphere. The pressure wave will still hit the ground, and that's what causes the damage.

[Chuck Nice]

And what kind of shock wave are we looking at from, you know, it's like you slap the atmosphere and what would kind of be the result on, I'll say a metropolis, by the way.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

In Tunguska, it incinerated 10,000 square kilometers of forest.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, my.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So. So that was. So that was not just the blast wave. That was the Pulse of energy that showed up as photons, as light. Nice, right? Am I remembering this correctly, Rick?

[Rick Binzel]

No, mostly it wasn't so much heat. It was mostly the pressure wave, what we call an overpressure that would have knocked down the trees. So it was really a flattened forest for a few hundred square miles.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Why am I remembering fire, maybe right.

[Rick Binzel]

At the center, but that was fairly localized. Most of the damage was just trees knocked over for a few hundred square miles.

[Chuck Nice]

I'm going to say that's pretty impressive in terms of a disaster for a pressure wave to take out how many kilometers of trees?

[Rick Binzel]

I mean, 200 square miles. Few hundred square miles.

[Chuck Nice]

That's insane because that's insane. You guys. Wait, wait, wait. You're both so calm.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's small compared with the surface area of the Earth.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, yeah. It's not small compared to Northeast Philadelphia. We had one plane crash and it took out like three blocks of.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I remember that.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That was just a couple.

[Chuck Nice]

A little while ago. And I'm just saying, like, you're talking about miles and miles of trees being knocked over. It is hard flattened. It's hard to flatten a tree. That is difficult. That's no small thing.

[Rick Binzel]

Well, you have to remember, most of the Earth's surface is water. So this could, in all likelihood, if it came to pass, it would be over water. And they're very poor coupling between that pressure wave and the water. You wouldn't want to be in a, in a ship underneath that, but that would be pretty, pretty easy to evacuate.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So, Chuck, I'm pretty sure, right, my good fellow, here.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Once you. Once the spaghetti uncertainty shrinks down to a dot, if it's going to hit Earth, we'll know exactly where on Earth it's going to hit. Correct.

[Rick Binzel]

Recently, our capabilities have become good enough that, you know, a small object the size of a compact car can be discovered a few days or hours before, you know, if it's on terminal approach. And, you know, those predictions get very well refined, that they basically can tell people when to go out, hold your cell phone camera up and see a streak in the sky. And then meteorite hunters can then descend on the area to try to pick up pieces. So when we get, you know, a precise orbit, we could be very specific about where these things are going to arrive. So.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So that's a scientist talking there. He says, when you know where it's going to arrive, get your cameras ready.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Rather than get your ass.

[Chuck Nice]

Get out.

[Rick Binzel]

No, no, we're. We're going to run. You know, we These are the sort of things we run towards. You know we want to get data man. We want to pick up pieces.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Sciences.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Rick Binzel]

Free stuff. This is free stuff from space.

[Chuck Nice]

Free stuff from space. That's great.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Manna from heaven.

[Chuck Nice]

There you go.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So rick, where is 2024 yr 4 on the Torino scale?

[Rick Binzel]

So 2024 yr 4 ranks a 3 on the Torino scale. Which means if it were to strike the Earth it would be a localized event. And I think the important thing about a three on the Torino scale is that we like to emphasize that most likely when we get more data we'll be able to reduce it to zero. And three is also sort of an alert to astronomers. They say let's pay attention to this object. We're not worried about it, no one is panicked about it. But let's get the data and make sure that it's gonna miss.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And maybe fund a deflection program.

[Chuck Nice]

I was about to say I don't wanna be in macabre but what point on the scale do we have to do something? And what, I mean what's the number where it's just like hey guys, we got to get up there and fix this.

[Rick Binzel]

8, 9 and 10 are the numbers you don't want on the Torino scale because those are the levels where you are certain of an impact. And yr4 if it misbehaves it would go all the way up to eight on the Torino scale. That would be its maximum.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, because it's not massive enough to render anybody extinct. And your scale sounds like it's logarithmic or something, Right? Or exponential. The higher the number, the much higher damage it would do, right?

[Rick Binzel]

That's correct.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Which is true. That's the same true with the earthquake scale. Yeah, the richer scale.

[Rick Binzel]

Exactly.

[Chuck Nice]

Race the rudders, Race the sails. Race the sails.

[Rick Binzel]

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching, over. Roger.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution?

[Chuck Nice]

Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started today at LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Tell us what's the latest about Apophis? Isn't Osiris Rex visiting Apophis?

[Rick Binzel]

Yes. So Apophis ties into our current asteroid story because back in 2004 it was kind of the same thing. Apophis got all the way up to four on the Torino scale. And in this case we were able to find earlier images of that asteroid and refine its orbit and rather quickly have it go down to zero. So that was the Apophis was the winner in terms of the highest ever recorded value on the Torino scale. But what that means, or what we found when we pinned down the orifice orbit of Apophis, is that on April 13th of 2029, the asteroid Apophis is going to come very close to the Earth, but it's going to safely pass the Earth. And that safe passage of the Earth is at a distance closer than some of our orbiting satellites, the one out at geosynchronous distances. And so this stadium size asteroid Apophis is going to make a very close approach on Friday, April 13, 2029. That Friday means nature has a sense of humor. And I've been leading a lot of efforts to try to figure out how can we scientifically study the asteroid Apophis? Because the Earth's gravity and the tides that the Earth exhibits on the moon are going to tug on that asteroid too. And if we can see how the asteroid responds to the way the Earth tugs on it, we'll be able to understand how that asteroid is put together. And that's terra incognita. We've never been able to discern how the inside of an asteroid is put together.

[Chuck Nice]

What about a giant net?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Is that like a butterfly net? Yeah, you just go up.

[Rick Binzel]

No, no, no, we want it to go past. We want it to go past. So, yeah, so we'll let it go past. And we just simply want to get the most science, the most knowledge we can out of this object, you know? You know, someday the knowledge of how these things are put together could be some of the important, most important knowledge that we've ever, you know, extracted from, from a space program. And so we, we just want to, we just want to get smart.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So as you monitor the tidal forces on it, which would serve to break it apart.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

If it stays together in spite of those tidal forces, that tells you one.

[Chuck Nice]

Thing a lot more. Solid.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Solid, right. And if it starts breaking apart and, you know, didn't have much of a matrix to hold it together, it's a.

[Chuck Nice]

Crumbly collection of cookie crumbles.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Cookie crumbles, that's right.

[Rick Binzel]

And if it doesn't care, Apophis has been around for probably thousands, if not maybe a million years, occasionally whizzing past the Earth. It's probably come closer than this in some previous millennium. And you know, it may say, oh, this rodeo is not really that tough of a rodeo. And it may just pass by and Apophis itself may not care too much.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Are they still naming, Are you guys still naming Earth crossing asteroids that are newly discovered after gods that are impart death and destruction on the world? Because Apophis is the Egyptian God of death and darkness. Right. So is that still the habit, the tradition?

[Rick Binzel]

There's a lot of different mythical traditions, but you know, for Apophis, it kind of shows that astronomers have a sense of humor too.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Any plans to name one Trump?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Trump probably has a plan to name one Trump. Osiris Rex went on a trajectory after the sample return to intersect Apophis. Is that correct?

[Rick Binzel]

That's right. So NASA has approved that the next mission for this Osiris Rex spacecraft, which is because renamed as Osiris Apex. Apex is Apophis Explorer.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Rick Binzel]

And so we're repurposing this spacecraft to go visit Apophis. The laws of orbital mechanics and how much propulsion we have on the spacecraft don't allow us to get to Apophis until after it's gone by the Earth. So we're going to kind of get a sort of an aftershot of Apophis after the Earth does whatever it might do to the, to the asteroid.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You're not going to touch and go on this one, right?

[Rick Binzel]

No, we'll leave it alone. Except maybe at the very end.

[Chuck Nice]

Or.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You might crash into it.

[Rick Binzel]

Yeah. Well, after we made sure where it's going to go for a long period of time, we may kind of touch down, let our thrusters blast the surface to kind of create a little crater that we could then look into. But we won't physically touch the asteroid. But I just want to say that, you know, there's really been this fantastic cooperation with European Space Agency where they're working on a mission called Ramses which would go to Apophis and get there before the asteroid reaches the Earth. And so it could be the European Space Agency giving us a before Look. And then NASA's spacecraft, Cyrus APEX will.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Give us the afterlook because there's still a few years in there. The sample that did come back from the asteroid Bennu.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

What did that reveal?

[Rick Binzel]

So the reason we went to Bennu is it looked like it was a very dark, low albedo, carbon rich asteroid. And we're interested in carbon because the stuff we're made of is, you know, carbon. We're all carbon based units. And so this was a chance to go back and look at some of the original carbon chemistry that made the planets and ultimately made life. And we have found that very primitive Carbon chemistry, even down to some basic amino acids, acids that make up the structure of proteins and, you know, essential for life. So, so we really have found sort of the holy grail ingredients of the origins of, or the chemistry that can make life part of.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That was even expected though, right?

[Rick Binzel]

Yes, I mean, that's what we wanted to find. And the important thing about bringing the sample is it was collected in space, it was stored in the vacuum of the capsule and then, you know, retrieved in pristine laboratory conditions. So we knew everything organic that we're measuring in this sample was intrinsic to the asteroid, to the space material itself and not something introduced because it, you know, the asteroid meteorite landed in a pond or in the mud and to pick, pick it up out of the mud and get it to a lab and things like that.

[Chuck Nice]

How does that compare to any other samples that we have from space?

[Rick Binzel]

It turns out that this kind of early carbon chemistry is extremely rare in the meteorites that we have on Earth because most of those, it's not very strong material. And the Earth's atmosphere breaks it apart and incinerates it all the way down. And so it's very hard to collect these kind of samples in a free sample from space in a meteorite. And that's why going and getting this kind of sample was really a scientific breakthrough.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So it's implicit in what you said, but I want to make it explicit. These asteroids harken from the beginning of the solar system, undisturbed by weather, erosion, contamination.

[Chuck Nice]

They're perfectly preserved.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Perfectly preserved. Is that a fair way to say that, Rick?

[Rick Binzel]

Yeah, I like to call asteroids the building blocks of the planets. They're leftover rubble. They're leftover pieces of all the material that went in to make the planets, to make the Earth.

[Chuck Nice]

It's like ikea, like IKEA furniture. That's the stuff that's left over the building blocks.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's not furniture, it's the building blocks furniture.

[Rick Binzel]

It's been a bit disassembled over time because it crashes into each other out there over millions and millions of years. But the fundamental pieces are still there.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So we are all of a particular handedness of these molecules for life on Earth. But some of those molecules in a mirror are perfectly legitimate molecules. We just don't use that version of them.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So. But space, if there's not something to pre select a handedness of the molecule, you might expect it to be 50, 50. I mean, and if it's not, somebody's got a answer to that. There's something doing some Filtering.

[Chuck Nice]

Something's doing something, right?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Something's doing something. So that'd be fun to see.

[Chuck Nice]

That's pretty cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Where the future of this goes. Yeah. All right, so, Rick, take us out with Planet nine. What the hell is Planet nine?

[Chuck Nice]

It's a place where I'm doing fine. North Cloud nine. Okay.

[Rick Binzel]

Pluto is the ninth planet because dwarf planets are planets, too. And so he got out of that one.

[Chuck Nice]

Boy, here we go.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

He got out of that one.

[Rick Binzel]

I'm fine. I'm fine with, you know, something else being out there. But the thing that's called Planet nine is just some indications in the data that there may be something even further out in our solar system that's been tugging on some of these other asteroids out there. There's a region out there called the Kuiper Belt. There's lots more asteroids out beyond Pluto. And some irregularities in the distribution of where all those objects are suggest there's something out there tugging on them. It's a little speculative. It could be right, it could be wrong. But when you have an idea, you go out and search and see if you're right or wrong.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You know what would make better data than that?

[Chuck Nice]

What's that?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

The object itself. Right. I mean, what you're saying, you're seeing all the objects that its supposed gravitational field would have influenced, and you're triangulating back on where this object must be and maybe how much mass it has and. But no one has spotted the object yet. If it's. If it's real.

[Rick Binzel]

Right. And I think the indications are it'll be something very far away, a little difficult to detect. So, you know, the jury's definitely out. But, you know, when you get these ideas, you put forward a hypothesis and you go out and test it. So that's how science works.

[Chuck Nice]

In the interest of getting clicks, I'm going to say it's a massive alien ship.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

He's not going to agree with that for sure.

[Rick Binzel]

That's a zero, I'm afraid.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So, Rick, I think we're done here, guys. It's been really. I'm amazed I hadn't. We haven't done this before. Our show's been on for quite some time. Yeah. And you demand. Oh, by the way, I don't know if anybody knows. When I get a call from cnn, right, about something in the solar system, I call Rick. I say, rick, this is what I know. Is it enough? What do you know? What can I bring to this conversation?

[Chuck Nice]

Super cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So he's my go to planet man.

[Chuck Nice]

I love him.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Because I was a galaxy guy.

[Rick Binzel]

Speed dial.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Because I'm a galaxy guy, you know, large scale universe guy. And planets was like a whole other. That's a different species of astrophysics. Yeah. You know what makes them different? They get to go there.

[Chuck Nice]

Nice.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Right. We don't, you know, we're not going to a black hole or the center of a galaxy or anything.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They get to, oh, I wonder what that object is. Send a probe. It's like. So that's, that's, that's damn near experimental science.

[Chuck Nice]

Nice.

[Rick Binzel]

Yeah. And as a planetary scientist, you really put yourself on the line because you can have a hypothesis and idea and you send the probe there and you find out you were wrong. But that's pretty exciting when you're wrong, actually, because you have to relearn. You've gained really great insights for the things that don't prove to be what you might have expected. But I love the challenge of being able to study things that you can go there and find out if you're right or wrong.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

For today's cosmic perspective, it's clear that among other interesting points of knowledge, wisdom and insight, we've also learned that as a scientist, discovering how the universe isn't can be just as valuable to the researcher as discovering how the universe is.

[Chuck Nice]

It also works when you're looking for a job.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And that is a cosmic perspective. Rick, thanks for being on the show, man.

[Rick Binzel]

My pleasure. Great to be with you.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Love to the family. And, and Chuck.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Always good to have you, man.

[Chuck Nice]

Always a pleasure.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right. All right. This has been StarTalk, the hazardous asteroid edition. Neil Degrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist. Keep looking up.