Cosmic Queries – Dark Matter, Aliens, End of the Universe

Summary

StarTalk Radio Episode Summary: "Cosmic Queries – Dark Matter, Aliens, End of the Universe"

Release Date: April 11, 2025
Host: Neil deGrasse Tyson
Co-Host: Chuck Nice

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Introduction

In this captivating episode of StarTalk Radio, astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson teams up with his humorous co-host Chuck Nice to tackle some of the universe's most enigmatic questions. Titled "Cosmic Queries – Dark Matter, Aliens, End of the Universe," the episode delves into the mysteries of dark matter, theoretical multiverse interactions, the ultimate fate of the cosmos, the symbiotic relationship between art and science, and more. Throughout the discussion, Neil and Chuck engage with listener-submitted questions, offering insightful explanations peppered with their characteristic wit.

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Dark Matter and Multiverse Theories [04:50 – 31:07]

The episode opens with a profound query from a Patreon supporter, Sarah, who poses a thought-provoking question: "Could dark matter be the effect of another universe's gravity on our own gravity?" Neil expresses a personal desire for this theory, stating:

Neil deGrasse Tyson [05:11]: "That's what I want it to be. I so badly want dark matter to be regular matter in a parallel universe whose gravitational force is spilling into our space-time. I want that to be true, but none of my colleagues are leaning that way."

Despite his inclination toward the multiverse hypothesis, Neil acknowledges the prevailing consensus among physicists that dark matter is more likely composed of undiscovered particles that interact solely through gravity. He delves into field theory, explaining how forces like gravity could, in theory, bridge across different universes, offering a speculative yet fascinating perspective on dark matter's true nature.

Key Points:

• Field Theory: A framework for understanding how forces like gravity operate within and potentially between universes.
• Dark Matter: Discussed as either a manifestation of another universe's gravity or as a new type of particle.
• Multiverse Implications: If dark matter were influenced by another universe, it would suggest a rich, interconnected cosmic landscape beyond our current understanding.

---

Fate of the Universe: The Big Rip Scenario [31:57 – 38:31]

Listener "Most happy boy 11" raises an existential question: "How does it all end?" Neil takes this opportunity to explore the Big Rip hypothesis—a scenario where the universe's accelerated expansion leads to the disintegration of all cosmic structures.

Neil deGrasse Tyson [34:24]: "The universe will end not in light, but in dark. Not in fire, but in ice. Not with a bang, but with a whimper."

Neil elaborates on how the relentless expansion will eventually tear galaxies, stars, planets, and even atomic particles apart. This process, occurring over an incomprehensible timescale (ranging from 10³⁰ to 10³⁵ years), underscores the transient nature of all matter and energy within the cosmos.

Key Points:

• Big Rip Hypothesis: The ultimate fate where universal expansion tears apart all matter.
• Timescale: Envisioned to occur between 10³⁰ and 10³⁵ years from now.
• Implications: All structures, from galaxies to atoms, will be irretrievably separated, leaving the universe in an inhospitable and cold state.

---

Artists and Science: A Symbiotic Relationship [38:27 – 45:19]

Chloe Wagstaff poses an engaging question: "How can artists, in your opinion, contribute to science?" Neil passionately responds by highlighting the historical and ongoing contributions of artists to scientific advancement.

Neil deGrasse Tyson [39:36]: "And so one of the most famous of these are the Audubon paintings, all right? You know, we hold them up as art, but this is a scientific record of birds."

He traces the lineage of scientific illustration, emphasizing how artists have been indispensable in documenting natural phenomena, especially before the advent of photography. The Audubon bird paintings serve as a prime example of art serving as a scientific archive. Neil also touches upon the role of modern artists in design and visualization, arguing that while science informs art with new materials and technologies, art also enriches scientific endeavors by enhancing design and aesthetic appreciation.

Key Points:

• Scientific Illustration: Artists historically vital in documenting flora, fauna, and astronomical observations.
• Audubon Paintings: Exemplify art serving as a detailed scientific record.
• Modern Contributions: Artists influence scientific fields through design, visualization, and aesthetic enhancements.

---

Lightning Round: Listener Questions [45:22 – 50:26]

In a rapid-fire segment, Neil and Chuck address several listener inquiries:

1. Unasked Questions About the Universe:

   • "What questions are we not and should be asking about the universe?"
     Neil deGrasse Tyson [45:48]: "The question that we should be asking and we're not, have not yet manifested because the discoveries necessary for us to occupy the new vista, which enables those questions to then be in sight of our curiosity have yet to be discovered."

2. Borderless Earth:

   • "Do you believe in a borderless world? And how could we possibly make that happen?"
     Neil deGrasse Tyson [46:42]: "Borders are embarrassing if an alien came down and said, 'Are you all human?' ... We'd have to somehow tell that to the aliens as they look at us befuddledly like, 'What the hell is wrong with you?'"

3. Supernova Visibility:

   • "Has humankind ever seen in the night sky a supernova?"
     Neil deGrasse Tyson [48:35]: "Yes, the first exploding star visible since Kepler in the 1600s was in 1987... It's the famous 1987A, and it is the most studied supernova in the history of the world."

Key Points:

• Future Questions: Anticipating scientific advancements will spawn new, yet-to-be-asked questions.
• Global Unity: Skeptical views on achieving a borderless world due to inherent human tribalism.
• Supernova Observations: Confirmation and details about naked-eye supernova sightings, particularly SN 1987A.

---

Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Neil encourages listeners to explore the forthcoming "Cosmic Queries" book, which expands on the intricate topics discussed. He underscores the importance of curiosity and interdisciplinary collaboration, subtly advocating for the integration of artistic creativity into scientific inquiry.

Neil deGrasse Tyson [44:26]: "Whereas if Einstein had never discovered relativity, somebody else would have, or some combination of people would have, and they would have discovered it in exactly the way he showed it to us."

The closing remarks reinforce the theme that while science and art may traverse different realms, their interplay is crucial for a holistic understanding of the universe.

---

Notable Quotes:

• "The universe will end not in light, but in dark. Not in fire, but in ice. Not with a bang, but with a whimper."
  – Neil deGrasse Tyson [34:24]

• "And so one of the most famous of these are the Audubon paintings, all right?... this is a scientific record of birds."
  – Neil deGrasse Tyson [39:36]

• "It's a borderless Earth... We'd have to somehow tell that to the aliens as they look at us befuddledly like, 'What the hell is wrong with you?'"
  – Neil deGrasse Tyson [46:42]

• "Yes, the first exploding star visible since Kepler in the 1600s was in 1987... It's the famous 1987A, and it is the most studied supernova in the history of the world."
  – Neil deGrasse Tyson [48:35]

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of StarTalk Radio masterfully blends deep scientific discourse with accessible explanations and engaging banter. Neil deGrasse Tyson and Chuck Nice navigate through complex theories and existential ponderings, making the mysteries of the universe both intriguing and understandable. Whether you're a seasoned astrophysics enthusiast or a curious newcomer, "Cosmic Queries – Dark Matter, Aliens, End of the Universe" promises a journey through the cosmos that is as enlightening as it is entertaining.

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Stay tuned to StarTalk Radio for more episodes where science, pop culture, and comedy collide. Keep looking up!

Transcript

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[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Early ct mobile.com hey, start talking, Neil here. You're about to listen to an episode specially drawn from our archives to serve your cosmic curiosities. Check it out. Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture coll. Startalk begins right now. This is StarTalk. Neil DeGrasse Tyson here, your personal astrophysicist. Got with me my co host, Chuck. Nice.

[Chuck Nice]

Hey, hey, hey, Neil. What's happening?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right. I love having you out there, Chuck. I love being here for all my startalk needs. You're there.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh. And beyond. And beyond and beyond, my friend.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We're gonna knock out another cosmic queries. But this one we have to grab the ones that don't fit any categories. So this is just. I think you coined the term galactic gumbo.

[Chuck Nice]

I do. That's my favorite. We call it grab bag. We'll call it a bunch of different things. But my favorite is galactic Gumbo there down my. You don't know. Garon. Garon tea. I put on there a little cayenne pepper.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Spice that up.

[Chuck Nice]

Spice. Little cayenne pepper.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So we should go to Louisiana, see if we can get galactic gumbo on somebody's menu.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, wow, that's. Oh, that's a great idea.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Why not? Who's going to say no to that?

[Chuck Nice]

Right? Exactly. Yo, that's a Great idea. Oh, that. Nothing would make me more happy than to go into a place.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Everything.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. Galactic gumbo.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So these are all Patreon questions. And, you know, they're getting it good.

[Chuck Nice]

It's ask anything.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, okay.

[Chuck Nice]

So, like.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right. And if I don't know, I'll just say, I don't know. Go on, next question.

[Chuck Nice]

That's right. It could be anything that they want to know from you, you know, so. Including, you know, why is the sky blue? But we already did that.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We already did that. We got that.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, we did.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And, you know, the more content we post, Chuck.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

In explainer videos and things, the whole Cosmic Queries could just be. Go to this link, go to this.

[Chuck Nice]

Link, go to that, and we just kick that right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

When we're done explaining everything, then we got it. Okay, so give it to. Oh, by the way, I'm compelled that this format inspired a book, a stark book called cosmic queries. It's March 2021.

[Chuck Nice]

And is it actual queries from people?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No. So what happens is there's some queries that are just so deep and they spill out over this format. If someone says, what is the meaning of our existence? Or, why is the universe here? Those are real questions that real people have, but they don't lend themselves to our repartee. Right. So we collected the deepest questions ever asked, and we put them in the Cosmic Queries book. So it's like, how did life get here? What is the universe made of?

[Chuck Nice]

Why can't I wear brown shoes with a black tuxedo?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Or can I wear white after Labor Day? Those are the questions.

[Chuck Nice]

Right? Cool, man.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So start. So start it out. What you got?

[Chuck Nice]

All right, let's bring it on. Let's go with Amrun Koka Amran or Umran Coca, but says Chuck, if you're reading this, please just call me Sarah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, well, there you have it, Sarah. Thank you, Sarah.

[Chuck Nice]

Thanks, Sarah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Thanks for telling me after you make a fool of yourselves.

[Chuck Nice]

Right. You could have just put that as your name. All right. Could dark matter be the effect of another universe's gravity on our own gravity?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's what I want it to be. I so badly want dark matter to be regular matter in a parallel universe whose gravitational force is spilling into our space time. I want that to be true, but none of my colleagues are leaning that way. And they're, like, deep in it, and it's their expertise, and I'm just looking over the fence. What you up to today? Picking it up so I can share it with all you Good people. So the. What's the over under the odds on favorite is that there's some other kind of particle, family of particles that are not the electron, proton, neutron, the ones we're familiar with, that do not interact with our particles. And if they don't interact in any sort of chemical way, then light will pass through them. You know, all you'll feel is their gravity. And so I don't have a problem with that. I just. I don't think it's as fun as thinking there could be another universe. Now, the only reason why I think this is I spoke with some top folks about field theory. This is a class I never took in graduate school, and I regret it. But field theory, you study fields. These are fields that generate forces on objects. Basically. Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

Turns out, not the kind you play on.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Not the kind you play on.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay. All right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

These are force fields, a concept introduced by. Who's our guy at the mid century. Mid century. Faraday. Michael Faraday. In the mid 19th century. Because no one imagined describing something you can't see that has an effect on other things. All right? And so he had to invent this concept, this field concept where you draw lines that take the shape of that field. And that's what the iron filings do.

[Chuck Nice]

For the magnetic field. Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Right before him, it was just. Oh, they're just. That's just what they do. But he gave it magic. So he gave it. So he anchored it in. In physics speak so that we can actually calculate with him and do other things.

[Chuck Nice]

Sweet.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So, so these are fields. So in field theory, you apparently. And I can't demonstrate this to you, I can only repeat it. Others have told me that light and all the forces that surround it, electromagnetic forces, cannot exit your space time. They're trapped within it. But gravity can. Gravity can spill out of your universe and move between universes. That's what I heard, and I think I got that right.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

But. So if that's the case, then a nearby universe in this higher dimensional construct could have gravity spilling into our universe. And there we are, mystically touching it, thinking it's a magical invisible thing, when it's just real and it's just something sitting on. Outside the door.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow. So now let me just ask this. On top of what she's. You talked about.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

What Sarah.

[Chuck Nice]

What Sarah says. Thank you. Sarah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Sarah. Sarah.

[Chuck Nice]

So you say that some think it would. That they might want it to be these particles that we cannot interact with?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, it's not so much that they. I think there's good reason to think they could be those particles. And they're experiments now designed to try to capture them and see if one in a zillion encounters with our particles, maybe they'll have some. There'll be some exception to that rule. That'll render them visible.

[Chuck Nice]

Gotcha. Cause that's my point. It's like, why make that postulate in the first place?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, why not just little gremlins? You know, there's an invisible particle. You can't see it.

[Chuck Nice]

Right. You know, so. All right. No, no.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So you have theories guiding these experiments, and they're suggesting if the dark matter is of this kind, it should interact with this regular particle in this way. This rarely or at least frequently. And so you do this. So we have these huge experiments trying to detect dark matter particles.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's all that's going on there. All right, so I'm with Sarah on this. It'd be cool if it were.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Very cool.

[Chuck Nice]

That is awesome.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

By the way, if that's the case.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Since we have five times as much dark matter in our universe as regular matter.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That means there's a shit ton of regular matter in this other universe.

[Chuck Nice]

Right? Their regular matter. Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. If our dark matter is their regular matter, that universe has at least six times the mass of our. At least. It turns out, to escape your universe and enter another one, the strength of the gravity drops off precipitously. So it has to be even stronger than just a factor of six.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So it's a honkering universe. And wouldn't it be weird if one day we learned we're just some small gnat among other gnats on the back of a much larger, more powerful universe, and we're just a satellite universe to it.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow. That's in a way, very humbling.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Very humbling.

[Chuck Nice]

And in a way, I kind of want us all to get together and just make a very loud sound so that we are not boiled in a pot of water as the dust speck.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That we are, or to get swatted off the back.

[Chuck Nice]

Bang. All right. Wow. Okay, cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, here we go. This is.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Give me some more.

[Chuck Nice]

Also from Patreon. Sarah was a Patreon patron. And for those of you Interested, go to patreon.com startalkradio and support us. And then you can be part of actual, private Patreon Cosmic Queries, where Neil answers your questions almost personally. So there you go.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah. These would just only be posted behind the.

[Chuck Nice]

Behind the curtain. Behind the curtain, yeah. Patreon Curtain. All right. Fernando Gomes says this our Gomes or Gomez? You know, it's G O M E S. So maybe it's Gomez, but it's I. It's just, if it's.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

If it's Freddie Gomez, then fine. But if it's Fernando Gomez. Give me some.

[Chuck Nice]

All right, let me. I'm sorry, let me. Allow me to recalibrate. Here we go. This is from Fernando Gomez.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Now starring.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Maybe Gomez needs a Z and Gomes is F. Maybe.

[Chuck Nice]

I don't know. Go on. Anyway, he says our own pocket of the universe is expanding. Will it exceed the speed of light? I guess when he's saying expanding, he's also including the acceleration as well. And if so, will that mean we'll no more be able to detect anything coming from outside of our universe too?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

First of all, that is already the case.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, snap.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. And as time moves on, and as you correctly added, Chuck, with the acceleration of the universe, what will happen is things that used to be within our horizon simply expand faster than the light that they're sending us can reach us. And then they basically disappear beyond the horizon. And as the universe continues to expand, things that used to be nearby will now find themselves on this extreme limit of the expansion and then disappear beyond the horizon, such that there will be a day that arrives. By the way, there's a whole section of one of the chapters in the Cosmic query book on this. By the way, it's not out yet. It's like March, so don't worry about it yet. Not out yet. So I don't even think it's listed yet. So I shouldn't even be talking about the book. So pretend I. No, you guys, I didn't say anything.

[Chuck Nice]

Hey, you're getting a sneak peek. Don't worry.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so there comes a time when our galaxy will merge with the Andromeda galaxy at becoming one. One galaxy twice the size, and it will become only us in our pocket of the universe. And all other galaxies would have receded beyond our horizon, and the night sky would, as seen from Earth, would contain only stars and nothing else in the universe. So we would have a universe that people thought it was before Hubble discovered other galaxies. There was a time. What is. Ask anybody. Before 1926, they say, tell me about the universe. Well, they're just stars, right? Stars in the night sky. And stars just go on, like, forever. And then we learned all the stars you see are in our one little galaxy. And there are other island universes, if you will, which was a term traceable to Immanuel Kant and others back in the 18th century. Could there be island universes out there? So other galaxies, you can think of them that way. And so everything we know about the history and origin of the universe is because we can see these other galaxies out to the edge of the universe. But in the distant future, when they all recede beyond our horizon, Gone is any record of the history of the universe. The big bang, the expansion, everything. There'll be no indicators left to tell us. It'll be an entire chapter of the history of the universe ripped from the book. Okay, and there you are. Any post apocalyptic civilizations will say, yeah, the universe is just the stars in the night sky.

[Chuck Nice]

And they won't have any way to disprove that.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And Chuck, I lose sleep wondering whether we today are in some kind of state of existence where a chapter had been removed from our attempt to probe our place in the universe. And here we are without that chapter, trying to make sense of it.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, that is terrible.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Terrible.

[Chuck Nice]

What a terrible, terrible thought.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I have these thoughts and it delays slumber day and night.

[Chuck Nice]

That's just awful. That's an awful thought. Oh my God. Yeah. And so is the distant future thought. That's not good either, right? Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I got another one. You ready? Suppose you grew up on Venus. You'd be vaporized. But let's ignore that complication. Okay?

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You grew up on Venus.

[Chuck Nice]

I got some really good sunscreen if you.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That won't help you from high temperatures.

[Chuck Nice]

This is true. That's only UV sunscreen.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Ain't stopping you from.

[Chuck Nice]

Right. That's not 900°. That's not it. Yeah, I got an asterisk. I got an asbestos bathing suit. Go ahead.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So if civilization arose on Venus, Right. There would be no culture of the night sky. There would be no night sky because it has such a thick cloud cover. No one has ever seen the night sky.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All you would know is that half a year. Cause Venus rotates very slowly. Half a year, it's just kind of light. And then it gets dark for most of the year. And then it gets. That's all you're gonna know. And so someone would have to figure out how to travel in space to even know there's such a thing as traveling in space.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Build a spaceship. And then imagine emerging from those clouds, the cloud tops for the first time. And you see the sun and stars and other planets. Oh my gosh. So are we buried under some cloak preventing us from getting an accurate understanding of the world around us?

[Chuck Nice]

Wow, that's that? That's very, very profound and thought provoking.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, that's Fernando.

[Chuck Nice]

There you go. Fernando. Look at you, buddy.

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[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Hi, I'm Ernie Carducci from Columbus, Ohio. I'm here with my son Ernie because we listen to StarTalk every night and support StarTalk on Patreon.

[Chuck Nice]

This is StarTalk with Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So just for those only listening, I have two works of art from an Inuit artist.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And it is a bird that is just consumed a fish. And one is a black and white version. The other one is a white and black version of the same print. And they flank my desk.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

For these recordings. And they do look a little alien.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, they do. They look a little alien, but they're cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. And if you're interested in these, you can find them on our postings. The name of the artist and a little bit of the history the Inuit culture is there. And I thank her for giving me permission to show these. I mean they're actual our real art. My wife is from was raised in Alaska.

[Chuck Nice]

That's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So she has sort of an awareness and a sensitivity to the whole region and Inuit art and this sort of thing. So that's cool. Yeah. Let's keep going. Give me some questions.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, let's get back into. Let's do another Patreon. Another Patreon from Jet Thomas. What a good name. He's a. He's a. He's a space hero. Hello, Neil and Chuck. If gravitational waves can bend the fabric of space time.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Wait, wait. By the way, jets don't work in space. Just so you know. You need rockets, but go on.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, you're right, because you need an air inflow. You need air. You need air inflow to, To. To make a jet.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I'm just saying.

[Chuck Nice]

I got you. I got you. Okay, listen, I'm not. I. I will. I will take that correction. I know.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I'm gonna be all up in your face about it.

[Chuck Nice]

No, I know.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I. I don't let stuff go by.

[Chuck Nice]

I know who I'm talking around.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay?

[Chuck Nice]

That's why I don't go to the movies with you. All right, here we go. So Jet Thomas says this. If gravitational waves can bend the fabric of space time, could it potentially be utilized to communicate with life in other universes? In principle. Could a device use gravitational waves instead of the way we use radio waves to stream information outside the bounds of our universe? Now, you just said in our previous answer that light is bound to this universe trapped. So now gravitational waves.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. So each one of these is an entire window to the universe. I mean, let's think back for a minute when the telescope was sort of pioneered by Galileo. He's thinking, oh, my gosh, look what I can now see. And I can look at. I can see ships farther in the distance. I can look up at the Milky Way, and I see stars where you thought it was just a cloud. And he's imagining that the telescope is the way to see everything your eyes can't. Okay, right. But then give me a couple hundred years on that, and then what happens? William Herschel discovers infrared, which is also light, but your eyes can't see it. And in fact, in his original research paper, he called it light unfit for vision.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And so wait a minute. If all your telescopes are only giving you visible light, why even call it visible light? It's just light, right? You don't have any other. You don't. There's no reason to qualify that it's visible light if you don't know any of the light that you can't see. The moment we discover light, you can't see. You now have to constrain how you call the light your eyes detect, and we call that visible light. Infrared is not visible. Ultraviolet is not visible. Neither are X rays, gamma rays, Radio waves, none of that yet. It's all light traveling at the speed of light. So we open up telescopes to these windows to the universe, and that's how we discovered the birth of the universe and black holes and jets and all kinds of things in the universe. That's how we discovered them. But now we can go a step beyond that and say all of these collectively, in a way, is just one kind of window to the universe, the window that uses light. Are there other kinds of windows? And yes, gravitational waves is a kind of window. Neutrinos is a kind of window. There are neutrinos everywhere. We just need special telescopes to detect them. And so if gravity can escape your universe, if that can happen, then there's no reason why we can't send a signal. I agree entirely. That's a long answer to just say yes, I agree. But I got a question that again, I'm an idiot when it comes to field theory. So if the ripple of a gravitational wave requires or its effect in the space time continuum is this wave, when it leaves the universe, what is it? Jiggling? I mean, I don't know, what is it? Maybe it's just the graviton, the quantum particle that corresponds to the gravity wave in the same way a photon of light corresponds to the wave of light. These are sort of parallel constructs, right? We speak of light waves that carry by photons, gravity waves carry by gravitons. Maybe the graviton busts out, goes through, comes, enters the other universe and we don't have to worry about the wave warping the fabric of space and time. So yeah, I don't see why not. But I would need higher expertise to answer that with some precision.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow. That well. God, how much higher expertise can you get? Jesus.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Brian Green. Brian Green would totally.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, yeah, well, yeah, that is.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

He's just up the street.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, yeah, that's his thing. That's right. Yeah. That was a great answer though, man. No, that's. That's fantastic. Yeah, I love it. And the windows to the universe. That's an excellent.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, so what it is, it's a window. So the electromagnetic spectrum is a window of windows. Right, right. And then we have another kind of window over here on the other side of the house, see?

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, man, I love that. I love that. That' God, that's.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So if you went back in time and said, Galileo, you're practically blind.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And he's saying, no, I'm not. Look what I can see.

[Chuck Nice]

He was like, do you not see what I'M looking through the hell is wrong with you?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, that's exactly how he would have said it too.

[Chuck Nice]

You know, that's how he.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Dude. What? What? He was colloquial, by the way. He hung with the common folk.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, really?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So he might have spoken in, you never know, Italian vernacular of the day, whatever that would have been.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes, the Italian equivalent of child, please. So, okay, cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Child, please.

[Chuck Nice]

Child, please. Don't you know I embedded the telescope.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

The hell is straight from the inner cities of 20th century.

[Chuck Nice]

Child, please. Oh, that's hilarious. Okay, here we go. Here we go. I love that. The window. The different windows of the universe. Love it. Okay, let's go to Eric Allen. Eric Allen. Hi there. I've been listening for years, and I finally have the nerve to ask a question.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And who asked this?

[Chuck Nice]

Eric Allen.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Eric Allen.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes. Yes. So thank you for listening, Eric. Here we go. He says, we know that the force of gravity bleeding into our universe from another universe would drop off at the rate of 1 over R cubed. He says. Yeah. Okay. Hypothetically, if the other three forces were somehow able to bleed into our universe from another, would they be affected the same way? Now, I don't know if I said his equation correctly.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, I got it. No, we're good. We good here.

[Chuck Nice]

Are we?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so let me just say what's going on here.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes, okay. Please.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, if I have a water pistol, okay. And I shoot it right at your face, Right. Then all the water that exited the vessel in the water pistol goes in a stream and it all lands on your nose.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. If you're a good shot, there's no dilution of. As long as the stream is tight and narrow, there's no dilution of it. Of what came out of my water gun before it hit your face.

[Chuck Nice]

Gotcha.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so now let me say I'm. Now, instead of gonna do it in a straight line, that's one dimension, I'm gonna spray it horizontally.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. But it's the same amount of water.

[Chuck Nice]

Same amount of water.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so if now I spray it, then it's, quote, diluted by the area over which it has to travel. Correct. Okay, so if that's the case, then it drops off as 1 over R is what? 1 over the distance? So if you're twice as far away, you're getting half as much as you would have if you were closer. Okay. That's how that dilution would work. So that's in two dimensions. Okay, now let's say you're now spraying it in all Three dimensions, so that now it's like this wave, this spherical wave emanating from the water gun. Of course you'll hit yourself in the face. Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Cause it's going in all directions. Right, right, right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So it turns out if you go in all these directions, then it's being diluted by the area of the surface of that sphere.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, gotcha. Okay, gotcha.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So now it's being delete. And the formula for the surface of a sphere is 4 PI r squared. So it's being diluted by the S of the size of the surface. And so this is the famous one over R squared law that light experiences, that gravity experiences. Because whatever is the source, it goes out and it's filling all of space. And as it moves out, the intensity drops off as the square. If you're leaving your universe, you're going in a direction that is not accessible to anything you have seen or know.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Because you're exiting these dimensions.

[Chuck Nice]

Correct.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And now you exit and you're leaving our universe, crossing into another universe. The strength of the gravity will now drop off by the cube of the distance. And that's significant.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. So in other words, if I'm. I'm a. I'm. I'm a foot away from you and there's a certain strength of whatever is the field that I have now. You go two feet away from you. Okay. No, if I'm two feet away and now I go to four feet, I now have 1 8th the strength.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Not half the strength.

[Chuck Nice]

Not half the strength. Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Because it's a factor of two away. And you cube that two times two times two is eight.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I have 1 8th the strength. Okay. So I don't know any reason to think why other forces wouldn't have this extra dimension of dilution associated with them exiting your universe and coming into the another universe.

[Chuck Nice]

Right. Okay, cool. Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. So you're subject to a higher dimension of dilution by leaving a universe. And so. Yeah, so. So that's why I think I said in an earlier question, it's not only the six times our gravity that it has going on for itself.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's got to make up for that extra dilution to leave its universe and come in here. So it's a honkering universe.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, cool. If that, if that's how. If that's what we're feeling, if that's what dark matter actually is. Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, I gotta tell you, Eric, after waiting years, you actually came up with a damn good question. Good for you, buddy.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, we'll see.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, we'll see you in a few years with another great question. Right. All right, let's keep it going with. Oh, I love this the Most happy boy. 11 is the handle. Andre Neil how does it all end? Oh, and that's it? That's the whole. That's the whole question. How does it all end?

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[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

The question was Asked by who? Was it little boy 11 or something? What is it?

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, most happy boy 11?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Most happy boy 11.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Wanted to know how will it all end?

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

The universe will end not in light, but in dark. Not in fire, but in ice. Not with a bang, but with a whimper.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, that's terrible. Poor universe.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Beyond that little bit of simple language, there's an entire section of the Cosmic Queries book that specifically addresses all the scenarios of how we will end. And so I'm gonna be. I'm gonna pull rank here and say, buy the damn book when it comes out.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, wow. There you go.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

What I will do. I hate doing that, but it's a lot of effort went into those chapters. I'm going to pluck for me the scariest ending of them all.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, good. I like that. All right, wait, hold on, hold on. Let me get my flashlight and put that. All right, let's get. Let's get it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Chuck imagining he's around a campfire.

[Chuck Nice]

In.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

The dark, but he's in a completely lit room.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

Exactly.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right, so here you go. This expansion of the universe, this acceleration, there's no reason for any of us to think it will ever end. It will keep accelerating in its expansion, okay? So as we described earlier, the galaxies, the distant galaxies will expand beyond our horizon. Then the nearby ones will no longer be nearby because they would have been stretched to the edge of the universe.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Then the power of the stretching will overcome the gravitational binding of stars with other stars and stars with their planets. So we would see our galaxy systematically get stripped apart with stars being cast beyond the horizon as it expands. And this will continue. So not only will every star get cast asunder to beyond our horizon, such that our sky will contain only one star, and that is the sun. Except the sun won't live that long. But let's pretend it's still there. Then the stretching of the universe will rip the planets away from the star, so that we will then become alone in our own bubble within our own horizon in the universe. Then it will keep stretching and it'll begin ripping the Earth apart. And by the way, this is happening at a faster and faster rate.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And you can calculate when the expansion of the universe rips apart the very particles that comprise matter itself.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, no way.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And the very. What's called a Planck length, the very. The granularity of the quantum universe itself gets ripped apart. And in fact, this is called the Big Rip.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, my. Oh, the universe split its pants. Split its pants. Oh, my goodness.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I mean, Literally, it split everything. Wow. It bent over. It split its pants. Chuck. I love that description. And that if the universe goes that way, It'll happen between 10 to the 30 and 10 to the 35 years around there.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, well, I'm.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So that's a lot of. That's a lot of years in the future.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, there you go. Happy boy, I hope you lose sleep over that.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

He ain't happy anymore. No. By the way, there was an episode of Doctor who where there was a tear in the space time fabric, and that tear would show up and you would, like, see it. And so that was particularly scary for me. Cause I know what the theories tell us, Right? Yeah. So the big rip. Freaking me out.

[Chuck Nice]

The big rip. All right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Let it freak you out, too. So I'm not the only one.

[Chuck Nice]

There you go. All right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

By the way, and that's just one of a dozen scenarios given in that chapter.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, cool. Excellent. And read it to your kids. People, bedtime stories. Wonderful. Bedtime story. Wonderful. All right, here. This is Chloe Wagstaff. Chloe Wagstaff says this. How can artists, in your opinion, contribute to science?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They already are. Oh, my gosh. So first of all, historically, before we had cameras, especially the naturalists, but also astronomers, too, if you saw something, you just drew it. All right? And not all scientists are good at drawing. So you see Galileo's sketches, they're not too bad.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

In his notebook. They're pretty good. Better than I can do, I think. But if you had a real artist, they could totally rock the scene and put what is actually out there on the page. And all the naturalists who are documenting flora and fauna of the world as they traveled the world to record all the manifestations of life on Earth, every one of those were either artists themselves or carried in. Artists in the back, you know, in the wagon.

[Chuck Nice]

So true with them.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And so one of the most famous of these are the Audubon paintings, all right? You know, we hold them up as art, but this is a scientific record of birds.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And until photography could do that or do it well or capture the color of them, that was the only thing we had. So we owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to artists, the scientific illustrators of the day. But then when photography came, it sort of relaxed that requirement. But there were still some things you had to draw because photography wasn't all that sensitive to light. So if it was really, really dim, you still had to draw it. Early astronomical images were still drawn, even though photography was available. Well, let's fast forward to today. So no, we don't. Sorry. I don't need you to draw my Hubble photo because we got really good imagery of it. Sorry. However, you know what I need you for? You know what I want you for? Design. Graphic design. They're artists, okay? I like some things better than others, even if they have the same functionality. Because some objects are just beautiful to behold or to touch or to carry with you. I value that. I think that's, you know, we can have a utilitarian world, but is that the world you want to choose to live in? No, you want the world where that's a beautiful space, that's a beautiful. I'm talking about architecture. Now that's a beautiful building, a beautiful room. It's been organized beautifully. What's the feng shui of that room? Those aren't scientists thinking that up. Those are artists.

[Chuck Nice]

You just described Apple computers.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, I tried not to mention the name, cause we're not paid by Apple or any computer company.

[Chuck Nice]

But there's still time.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

There's still time. So in that way, artists, I think make a beautiful world in which scientists function. But otherwise, no, I don't see that happening. There's a big push to get a in steam, right? Right. Science, technology, engineering and math. You put an A in there and stem becomes steam. And with the urge that if you train scientists to be artists, it can boost their creativity. And I don't know how successful that will be. Yes, you have to be creative as a scientist. But the number of scientists who said, you know, I thought about this new discovery after I looked at this work of art or after I painted this, those numbers are not high. And I know of one case, a guy named Ed Belbruno who looked at Starry Night by Van Gogh and it got him thinking about orbits transfer orbits between Earth and the moon because of the swirls of the paint. So it got him thinking, I think that's great. Does it mean he would have never had those thoughts without seeing the painting? I don't know. I do know, however, that science and engineering greatly affect art. Right. When neon was invented or discovered, you can have neon glowing tubes, artists were all over it with neon sculptures and things. And so when we make chemical discoveries or discoveries in material science or in computing, the artists are all in it and all over it. There'd be no modern special effects were it not for artists exploiting the computing foundations that were created by basically math geeks 60 years ago. So there is a two way street, but most of the traffic really goes to towards the artists rather than towards the science. But based on my read of the history of this.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, there you have it. Artists. You guys, you're not. We don't need you. Okay, stop joking now. You know that's a joke. Nobody.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Let me say. Let me say it differently. Maybe.

[Chuck Nice]

Go ahead, go ahead.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Maybe if more scientists took art class, then there would be more creativity expressed than they believed possible.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. But I want to see that tested, and I think it's worth an experiment.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, I think I want to see scientists take communications classes more than I want to see them take art classes, because that's what we need. We need people to listen to scientists, you know, more than anything.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right, one last bit of that. I don't want to eat up this whole segment on this, but if you look at Beethoven's Ninth Symphony or even Van Gogh's Starry Night, if they didn't create those, no one ever to be born will ever create them.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They are singular expressions of the creativity of those artists.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Whereas if Einstein had never discovered relativity, somebody else would have, or some combination of people would have, and they would have discovered it in exactly the way he showed it to us. And so the creativity of a scientist is not existing in a free thinking way, because ultimately nature passes judgment on whether what you invented works at all. So the creative process has different landing zones.

[Chuck Nice]

Right. Well, that makes sense. That makes sense because science is bound by laws, whereas we didn't create. Creativity is about breaking laws.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I like it. Very nicely put. Yeah, exactly. Cool.

[Chuck Nice]

All right. Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Let's go to Lightning round, see how many questions we can get in.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, here we go. All right. I don't know if we're going to Lightning Round with this question because it's a great question. This is Ms. Kel8893. What questions are we not and should be asking about the universe? Damn. Oh, that's. That's a. I mean, that's really cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right, I got one. You ready?

[Chuck Nice]

Go ahead.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. The question that we should be asking and we're not, have not yet manifested because the discoveries necessary for us to occupy the new vista, which enables those questions to then be in sight of our curiosity have yet to be discovered.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, my God. You thought about this before?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Next question.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, my God. Okay, I'm just gonna say that was a really good answer, man.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

All right, next question. Here we go. This is Vitesh Sinha who says, do you believe in a borderless world? And how could we possibly make that happen?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Borderless Earth, no countries, no Countries, Border, yeah. Okay. Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

So this is borderless Earth.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so I don't mean when world I was nicknaming the universe, but Earth. I think borders are embarrassing. They're just embarrassing if an alien came down and said, are you all human? Yeah. So well then why is this guard raid here? Why are you. Why is there a war? Oh, because even though we're all human, we're finding reasons to kill each other. These slight differences that we tried hard to find, found them and invoke them as reasons to mistreat each other, to kill each other, to enslave people, to round them up into concentration camps. And so, yeah, we'd have to somehow tell that to the aliens as they look at us befuddedly like, what the.

[Chuck Nice]

Hell is wrong with you?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They'll go back. There's no sign of intelligent life on Earth.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Often a common enemy brings people together. Covid should have been that enemy where we'd say, let's put down, you know, our differences and fight this, because it will attack us all no matter who we worship or who we have sex with or who we all the other things that creates fights among us. We have a common enemy. People, let's fight it together. And that didn't even happen. I give us a D plus on that. Okay. The only reason I don't give it an F is because some progress was made in the effort to make the vaccine, the vaccines. Right. So I don't have hope. I think deep down within our DNA, our tribalism will forever prevent that from happening. And I wish I could sound more positive, but based on my read of history, I can't.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, a sobering answer, to say the least.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I think we gotta end there, Chuck.

[Chuck Nice]

No. Get outta here. All right, wait, wait. One last one. Very, very quick.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

One last one. Okay, go.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay. Saurabha Pandav says, this has humankind ever seen in the night sky a supernova.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Good one. So first we discover hundreds of them a year with dedicated telescopes, dedicated telescopes that go from galaxy to galaxy looking for something that blew up since last night. Okay. Supernova lasts, you know, visibility lasts weeks and into the months. So we have dedicated experiments just for that purpose. But for the unaided eye, yes. The first exploding star visible since kepler in the 1600s was in 1987. There was a guy in the observatories in Chile in the Andes mountains who was looking through his telescope and he sees this bright object in what he's looking at. And he says, no, there's something wrong with the telescope. So he Says, let me just walk. As he goes outside, the telescope looks up. There's a bright object. Okay, so this is a case where he's using his eyes to verify the machine rather than the machine to verify his eyes. And that was discovered, I think, in February in the year 1987. It was the first supernova discovered that year. And it is the famous 1987A, and it is the most studied supernova in the history of the world. And all our telescopes, we have a very good communication system among us. All the telescopes around the world abandoned whatever research projects they were on at the time, slewed in the sky over and found this object. And even when it was below the horizon, the telescopes were waiting for it to rise. So you can get all kinds of data. Radio waves, infrared, ultraviolet, visible. Everything we could throw at it, we did. And there are thousands of research papers on that. Exploding star.

[Chuck Nice]

Awesome.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Visible to the naked eye.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, there you have it. Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Google that. 1987. Capital A. It's all there.

[Chuck Nice]

All right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Beautiful question, Chuck. That's it. We gotta wrap.

[Chuck Nice]

All right. All right. That was fun.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good. So, all right, Chuck, I'll be looking for you.

[Chuck Nice]

It's a pleasure to be here.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I love your Twitter feed, especially when you live tweet. Live event. Yeah, yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Not much of that going on now. But I'll be tweeting the super bowl, that's for sure.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

The Super Bowl. I'll be looking for that.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Cause you don't play with this. You don't give a. Cut anybody slack.

[Chuck Nice]

No, they're all jokes. Everybody should be able to take it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right, this has been startalk. Cosmic queries. A gumbo. Galactic gumbo.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. At home.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

At home with spice on this version. So I've been your host, Neil Degrasse Tyson, as always, please keep looking up.

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[Chuck Nice]

Shop.

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