Cosmic Queries – Dimensional Waterfall

Summary

StarTalk Radio: Cosmic Queries – Dimensional Waterfall
Host: Neil deGrasse Tyson
Episode Release Date: April 15, 2025

Neil deGrasse Tyson, renowned astrophysicist and Director of New York's Hayden Planetarium, teams up with his comic co-host, Chuck Nice, in this engaging episode of StarTalk Radio. Titled "Cosmic Queries – Dimensional Waterfall," the episode delves into a series of listener-submitted questions, blending science, pop culture, and humor to explore complex astrophysical phenomena. Here’s a detailed summary of the episode’s key discussions, insights, and conclusions.

---

1. Gravitational Waves and Their Detection

The episode kicks off with a listener question from Writer's Eye, who inquires about the current state of tracking gravitational waves and the potential to map the universe's edge-to-edge through their detection.

Key Points:

• Gravitational Waves vs. Gravity Waves: Neil clarifies the distinction between gravitational waves (ripples in spacetime caused by massive objects like colliding black holes) and gravity waves (similar to sound waves in a medium).

  “[00:34] Neil DeGrasse Tyson: So gravitational waves. So we detect them when they wash over us.”
  “[01:12] Chuck Nice: Gravitational waves, Right.”

• Current Detection Methods: The discussion highlights LIGO's groundbreaking ability to detect gravitational waves, which earned the Nobel Prize, and the potential future research program aimed at monitoring pulsars to track gravitational waves more comprehensively.

  “[05:06] Neil DeGrasse Tyson: So here's what I learned recently. That, yes, we can detect certain energy levels of gravitational waves that wash over Earth.”

• Future Prospects: Neil and Chuck explore the ambitious idea of using pulsar timing arrays to observe gravitational waves passing through multiple pulsars simultaneously, which could allow scientists to map their propagation across space.

  “[06:27] Chuck Nice: Would see the consistency across each pulsar. Correct.”

Notable Quote:

“[05:15] Chuck Nice: Right.”

2. The Topology of the Universe

Maurice van der Linden from Harlem, Netherlands, poses a thought-provoking question about the universe's shape, asking if a perfectly 4D spherical universe would allow our line of sight to loop around back to our position, making the universe appear smeared across the cosmic horizon.

Key Points:

• Open vs. Closed Universe: Neil explains that current evidence supports an open universe that is expanding indefinitely, meaning sight lines cannot loop back to the observer's position.

  “[10:25] Chuck Nice: Right.”

• Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB): They discuss how the CMB has been scrutinized for repetitive patterns that would indicate a closed universe, but no such patterns have been found, reinforcing the open universe model.

  “[12:17] Chuck Nice: No, that's a great answer.”

Notable Quote:

“[10:25] Chuck Nice: Right.”

3. Higher Dimensions and Dark Energy

Igor Vihanik from an undisclosed location asks about the possibility that the expansion of our universe could be influenced by our 3D space interacting with a higher dimension, likening it to a waterfall falling into another dimension.

Key Points:

• Dimensional Interaction: Neil articulates that there's no evidence to support the notion of one dimension affecting another in the manner suggested. Using a 2D analogy, they explain how higher-dimensional objects interact with lower-dimensional spaces without direct influence.

  “[16:11] Neil DeGrasse Tyson: So there's no evidence that one dimension is susceptible to another dimension in that way.”

• Dark Energy Implications: While the idea remains speculative, they ponder whether phenomena like dark energy could, in theory, relate to higher-dimensional physics, though current understanding does not support this.

  “[20:35] Neil DeGrasse Tyson: So he was trying to account for the dark energy.”

Notable Quote:

“[16:00] Chuck Nice: Yes, send us some of that Croatian weed over here.”

4. Understanding Internal Structures of Planets

Stetson from Japan raises a question about how scientists determine the internal structures of other planets, given that direct observation is challenging.

Key Points:

• Scientific Inference: Neil explains that scientists use measurements of mass, density, and composition based on the periodic table to infer internal structures. For instance, Mercury's higher mass compared to its size suggests a significant iron core.

  “[24:32] Neil DeGrasse Tyson: Great question, great question. So we make educated Guesses. And then we test the guess.”

• Asteroid Composition: They also touch upon how studying asteroid densities helps in understanding whether these bodies are solid rocks or "rubble piles," impacting strategies for planetary defense.

  “[28:04] Neil DeGrasse Tyson: So how do you have rock that has less mass than rock?”

Notable Quote:

“[27:24] Chuck Nice: That's dope.”

5. The Arbitrary Nature of Magnetic Poles

Jared Higby from Alamo, Nevada, questions whether the north and south poles of a magnet are fundamentally different beyond their attractive and repulsive interactions.

Key Points:

• Arbitrary Definitions: Neil clarifies that the designation of north and south poles is a matter of human convention rather than an inherent difference in the universe.

  “[38:37] Chuck Nice: Do tell.”
  “[38:48] Chuck Nice: Aha.”

• Right-Hand Rule: The conversation delves into the right-hand rule used to define magnetic poles based on Earth's rotation and magnetic field orientation, emphasizing the human choice involved.

  “[41:04] Chuck Nice: Cause from where we're sitting, well, the.”
  “[41:35] Chuck Nice: Yeah, look at that. So that's it.”

Notable Quote:

“[38:48] Chuck Nice: Aha.”

6. Unexpected Discoveries by the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST)

Logan Sinnett from Phoenix, Arizona, asks about unexpected discoveries made by the JWST and which ones Neil finds most intriguing.

Key Points:

• Early Findings: Neil highlights the JWST's discovery of galaxies at a redshift of 14, which corresponds to the "Dark Ages" of the universe—periods before the formation of the first stars—which were previously thought to lack such structures.

  “[43:54] Neil DeGrasse Tyson: When I was coming up, there was the record for what's the farthest object in the universe?”
  “[45:00] Chuck Nice: Oh my gosh. 14. That's crazy.”

• Implications for Cosmology: These findings challenge existing models of galaxy formation and suggest that our understanding of the early universe may need to be revised.

  “[44:53] Chuck Nice: If steppally, you just have another axis that's up there?”

Notable Quote:

“[43:03] Neil DeGrasse Tyson: It would. We would know for sure whether there was life elsewhere in the solar system, not on Earth.”

---

Concluding Insights

Throughout the episode, Neil and Chuck seamlessly blend humor with scientific discourse, making complex topics accessible and entertaining. They emphasize the importance of scientific inquiry and the evolving nature of our understanding of the universe. From gravitational waves and cosmic topology to the arbitrary labeling of magnetic poles and the groundbreaking discoveries of the JWST, the episode offers listeners a comprehensive exploration of contemporary astrophysical questions.

Final Notable Quote:

“[43:03] Neil DeGrasse Tyson: It would. We would know for sure whether there was life elsewhere in the solar system, not on Earth.”

As the episode wraps up, Neil encourages listeners to continue their curiosity and stay engaged with the ever-expanding field of astrophysics.

“[45:40] Chuck Nice: Yes. That was great.”

“[46:10] Unknown Speaker 5: For all of life's adventures. The all new 2025 Chevrolet Equinox is the SUV to help you do it...”

---

Stay tuned to StarTalk Radio every Tuesday for more insightful and entertaining discussions about the cosmos. Keep looking up!

Transcript

[Unknown Speaker 1]

If you've been having your McDonald's sausage McMuffin with an iced coffee from somewhere else, now is a great time to reconsider.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

In the Pacific Northwest, it's never too cold for an iced coffee in the morning. Grab yourself a medium caramel, French vanilla or classic iced coffee for just $2.29. Beverage may cause craving for McMuffin or hash browns. Prices and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer or combo meal.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Want to pull off the season's freshest trends? You just need the right shoes. That's where designer shoe warehouse comes in. Loving wide leg jeans. Pair them with sleek low profile sneakers. Obsessed with the sheer trend. Try it with mesh flats. Feeling boho. Comfy sandals. Nail the whole free spirited thing. Find on trend shoes from the brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at dsw.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Chuck, another installment of Cosmic Queries.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes, and in this one we figured out what dark matter really is.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Tune in and find out. Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. Startalk begins with right now. This is Star Talk. Neil Degrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist. We're doing Cosmic Queries today and that means Chuck is sitting right next to me. Yes. How you doing, Chuck?

[Chuck Nice]

Hey, what's happening?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Is this a topic or is it grab?

[Chuck Nice]

You know what it is? Oh, it's galactic gumbo. People won't give. No way in here. I'm going to give him a sooner. Put it down there. I'm going put them pop. But you know some guy on Pepper.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Didn't he die like 20 years ago?

[Chuck Nice]

I don't.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Paul Prudhomme.

[Chuck Nice]

Is that his name? I don't know his name.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Have you seen him lately? No.

[Chuck Nice]

No, I have not.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And my boy was packing some weight.

[Chuck Nice]

I haven't seen him in 20 years. Okay, so.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Well, we thank him for granting you that accent.

[Chuck Nice]

That's that. Don't go. See.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So this is random, but they're all Patreon members.

[Chuck Nice]

Whatever they want.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

But it's only Patreon members.

[Chuck Nice]

Correct.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, I haven't seen any of these questions.

[Chuck Nice]

No, you do not get to see them. And I'm supposed to see them, but I'm lazy, so I don't see them either.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

All right. Here we go.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

This is Writer's eye. Who says, hello, everyone. I hope your day is filled with protons from only friendly stars.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Or maybe he meant photons.

[Chuck Nice]

Photons. Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Did he say protons or did you misread it?

[Chuck Nice]

No, it says protons.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You didn't misread it? Cuz sometimes you. You know, you and the reading thing, I thought maybe reading is fundamental.

[Chuck Nice]

It is fundamental. No, I thought maybe he know. Talking about like a pulsar or something. And so send the particles out. Sending particles out.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

But no, he probably did mean photons.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right.

[Chuck Nice]

From friendly stars, he says. How far are we away from being able to track gravity waves? I know we can detect them. So tracking them would be the next obvious step, in my humble opinion. That is, if we could track them, eventually we could map the universe edge to edge. Am I correct in thinking that?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So a couple of things. First, a technicality, right? The kind of waves made by gravity.

[Chuck Nice]

Waves by two colliding black holes, okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Those are called gravitational waves.

[Chuck Nice]

Gravitational waves, Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. Gravity waves is something else that acoustical people is a term people use when they refer to a medium that's rising and falling in response to a pressure impulse that goes through it. So those are gravity waves that they cause. So we have to make sure that the kingdom is separated. Okay. The lexicographic.

[Chuck Nice]

Nice. The lexicographic reference has to be correct.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Distinct. So gravitational waves. So we detect them when they wash over us.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's what LIGO did. That's what earned the Nobel Prize.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And you know who earned the Nobel Prize? Kip Thorne, who was one of the executive producers on.

[Chuck Nice]

Wait a minute, Wait a minute. Wait. It's the string theory movie with Matthew McConaughey.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's called Interstellar. Interstellar, yes. Good. So in fact, we took our crew out to Pasadena, where he lives, went to his home office.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And interviewed Kip Thorne.

[Chuck Nice]

Very cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah. You can find it on our archives. And he showed us his Nobel Prize. Oh, wow.

[Chuck Nice]

You just keep that thing, huh?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I know, right? What do you wear on your neck? What do you do?

[Chuck Nice]

What else? I would take it everywhere.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

You know what I mean. Excuse me. Do you know what time it is? I'm like, oh, excuse me. Let me move my Nobel Prize out of the way so I can see my watch. How did that get there? Where did that come from? Oh, my goodness. Is that my Nobel Prize? And where my watch should be. Oh, my goodness.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So here's what I learned recently. That, yes, we can detect certain energy levels of gravitational waves that wash over Earth.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And there's certain other phenomena in the universe that do make gravitational waves that those detectors cannot see.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. Now there's something I only know a little bit about here. So I Just want to put it on the table.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right. That there's a research program that's going to be put into play that wants to detect the effect of gravitational waves moving across your field of view. So if you have a pulsar which has very, very precise spinning rates, the most accurate.

[Chuck Nice]

Set a clock by it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You can set a clock by it. Okay. If a gravitational wave passes by it.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

There's a change in the rate. Right.

[Chuck Nice]

You'll see the rhythm change.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

The rhythm change. Just briefly.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And so the idea is you monitor all the pulsars. You get their rhythms known.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And then you see one change, and then you look to see if it.

[Chuck Nice]

If it coincides with the gravitational wave.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Well, that would be the evidence. Now you see if it moves to the next one and then the next one.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

At the speed of light.

[Chuck Nice]

Would see the consistency across each pulsar. Correct.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And you'd be watching a gravitational wave.

[Chuck Nice]

Move across the medium of space.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yes.

[Chuck Nice]

That's amazing.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yes. And we're not there yet, but that's.

[Chuck Nice]

Unfortunately, we had to cut. That's the funding for. It's been cut already. We've saved so much money by not even thinking about it. You know it, I know it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Let me. On that subject, let me remind you how much money NASA gets from the government. What this is for the space station, space shuttle, Hubble, jwst, James Webb.

[Chuck Nice]

Everything that NASA does.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Everything NASA does, we're going back to the moon.

[Chuck Nice]

Including looking back at Earth and weather and everything.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, the weather would be Noah.

[Chuck Nice]

That's Noah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. But there's a strong collaboration between them.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. The two of them are right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You know, it was like 10 years after Noah was founded that I caught on that it's like pronounced like Noah. Like Noah's ark.

[Chuck Nice]

Like Noah's ark. Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Cause he was the first weatherman.

[Chuck Nice]

What do you think about it? Oh, my God. All right, so I didn't. I'm just catching that. You just caught that now? Just now. You had to actually spell it out.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yes.

[Chuck Nice]

He was the first weatherman. Y. Hey, it's gonna rain. God says it's gonna rain, man. People like, what are you talking about? Noah? What are you talking about? It hasn't rained. It has never rained here. Never. I'm telling you, man, I'm building a boat. It's gonna rain. Oh, crazy Noah. There he goes again. You know, so.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Well, he did grow grapes, is my understanding. And might have made some wine. May man made a little.

[Chuck Nice]

The Bible references that he did drink.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, but go ahead. So the Noah, by the way, if he did drink. I'm just saying that's rough. Just like I'll tell you right now.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It'S going to rain.

[Chuck Nice]

The Lord spoke to me, told me.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, who's going to believe that? Right.

[Chuck Nice]

Told me to get three of every animal. I think it was two. Anyway, go ahead. Let's move on.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So of course it's spelled N O A H and then N O A. National Oceanic. Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. So, yeah, no one makes those. So just to remind people how much money. So of your tax dollar, it is 4/10 of 1cent.

[Chuck Nice]

So it's not even a full penny.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. So you can say I want to save money there.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

But then what total impact is that going to have given all the rest of the spending that's going on?

[Chuck Nice]

Right. It's not a very efficient means of cost cutting.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. So if you have a Department of Efficiency, it could be more efficient about where it's being efficient.

[Chuck Nice]

Right. I think we need to be efficient with the Department of efficiency.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Exactly.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. All right, next one.

[Chuck Nice]

Here we go. Let's move on to Maurice van der Linden. This is Maurice Van der Linden. He says. Hey, Neil. Hey, Chuck. I've been wondering about something. Jan11 said once in your episodes that it might be possible that if you look far enough into the cosmos, your line of sight can loop around and the universe can end up at your position, just along the timeline. Doesn't this imply that, if true, the universe is a perfect 4D sphere, you would see your past location, in your case a young solar system, from every angle, so it would appear smeared out across the cosmic horizon. Love the show. Kind regards, Maurice from Harlem in the Netherlands.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, Harlem. Yes, yes. Harlem. It's where we got our name.

[Chuck Nice]

Harlem. Harlem here in New York.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. Back when the Dutch were running.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, they owned it all.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They owned it all.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They put in all the canals because they. We have Canal Street.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You know, and that's. That's what they do.

[Chuck Nice]

Absolutely. Even back then, nothing but canals.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So I don't know if I can answer it in the precision that's that he's talking about.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

But I can tell you that we do live in an open universe, which means we're expanding out forever.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So there is no sight line that will come back to where we are.

[Chuck Nice]

It goes out because the sight line is continually moving.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Correct. And out away from us.

[Chuck Nice]

And out away from us. So there's no way that you could loop back because it's Always going.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

In a closed universe, the universe will re collapse so that a sight line, in principle will ultimately come back. And the way to think about that is just the surface of a sphere.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We'll call it a perfect spherical balloon. We're all crawling around on the surface of that balloon. And if you send out a beam of light, it will go away from you, but then come around, come back and hit you in the back of the head. Right, Right. But that would be later.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. And as the balloon begins to shrink back. Cause it's. Well, wouldn't have to shrink. It just has to be closed. But if it's closed, it will shrink. But. Hmm.

[Chuck Nice]

Don't look at me. I'm not an astrophysicist.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So the cosmic microwave background.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We have done some experiments to test for this. Oh. So the microwave background is in every direction.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So if you look this way and you get an exact. I know exactly the patterning that's happening there. And then you just look that way, turn around.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Is that exact pattern, same pattern? Cause if that's the thing, then that means they are the same place.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That means that was a line that went around and met on the other side.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. We haven't found that. We haven't, no. But we've looked at that point, we've looked very carefully for statistically significant repeated patterns.

[Chuck Nice]

Gotcha.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All throughout the cosmic. Microsoft.

[Chuck Nice]

Gotcha. Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. Okay, so that's the best I can answer that.

[Chuck Nice]

No, that's a great answer.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Jana might have come in with some more teeth in that answer.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, yeah. Well, leave it to Deanna.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

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[Unknown Speaker 2]

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[Unknown Speaker 3]

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[Chuck Nice]

I'm Jasmine Wilson and I support StarTalk on Patreon. This is Startalk with Neil Degrasse Tyson. All right, this is Igor Vihanik.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Igor, this is not Young Frankenstein.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay? Igor.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I think in Young Frankenstein, he's Igor.

[Chuck Nice]

Igor. But he's also Marty Feldman who has big giant bug eyes. So I think they were. Anyway, he says, hello, gentlemen.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And is he Dr. Frankenstein.

[Chuck Nice]

Dr. Frankenstein.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

But I thought I. E is an E. And E. I is an I. Yeah, Einstein. And ie is an E. You didn't know that? You never heard that?

[Chuck Nice]

Listen, I can barely get I before.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

E. Except after C. And except in Neil.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And except in science. And except in Keith. Yeah. So I think they got rid of that rule.

[Chuck Nice]

And I spell all those words wrong.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I think they got.

[Chuck Nice]

I'm not even lying.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, I'm an exception to that rule and so is a whole lot of other words.

[Chuck Nice]

All right, here we go. He says, hey, gentlemen, my name is Igor from Zagreb, Croatia. I'm a first time caller.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I like what he did there.

[Chuck Nice]

That's good. Excellent. He says, I've always wondered if there are higher dimensions, could the expansion of the universe be caused by space time falling into another dimension? Like if our 3D space was a waterfall falling into a higher dimension and we simply perceive it as expanding in all directions, what would it mean for dark energy? Thank you, man. Interesting.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Damn.

[Chuck Nice]

First of all, let me just tell you, Igor, I do not know what kind of weed you are smoking in Croatia. Stop. But that is.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Please send some here.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes, send us some of that Croatian weed over here. Go ahead. What a weird concept of our space time.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So here's the thing.

[Chuck Nice]

Falling into another dimension, right?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

There's no evidence that one dimension is susceptible to another dimension in that way.

[Chuck Nice]

Correct.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So, for example, let's take the surface of a table, right? How many dimensions is that?

[Chuck Nice]

That's two.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Two. It just has a length and a width. No depth.

[Chuck Nice]

No depth.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And then I have another surface of a table. So I can make that table infinite, Right?

[Chuck Nice]

Correct.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Now I can have another table that's separated from it that's also infinite.

[Chuck Nice]

And they're just running parallel.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They're just running parallel. And they're not. There's no one.

[Chuck Nice]

There's no interaction.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's in a third dimension and there's no. I can embed a two dimensional surface in three dimensions and it'll just sit there as two dimensions.

[Chuck Nice]

As two dimensions inside of a three dimensional.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Inside of a three dimensional medium. It's not calling to you? Okay. But here is something that's related.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Again, it's not exactly answering the question, but it addresses the question.

[Chuck Nice]

All right, that's good.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Right. In our world we have quantum physics where a lot of mysterious things happen. It's not mathematically mysterious, it's just intellectually mysterious. Particles pop in and out of existence. Matter and energy are equivalent.

[Chuck Nice]

Particles behave in the same way over large.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They're entangled. You know, there's weirdness that's going on. We can describe it mathematically though. Is that weirdness completely normal in a higher dimension? Let's just ask for that. So what would be an example? Let's go back to our 2D world. Okay. And we're there. We're walking around or slithering around. 2D. People get around.

[Chuck Nice]

We're line drawings.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. We are only our perimeters to each other. Right? Right. Suppose we're looking around and we see a dot.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It just came out of nowhere.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's like particles popping in. And it's a dot. Where'd that come from?

[Chuck Nice]

I don't know. Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And then we keep watch. We study it. We're scientists, we study it. And the dot becomes a circle. And the circle grows. And we say, and we're studying, we're making measurements. Then it grows to like a maximum point. And then it starts shrinking back and it gets smaller, smaller. Then it's a dot, then it disappears.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We be coming up with all kinds of theories. Right.

[Chuck Nice]

Aliens. Aliens. Because we live in rural America where the rural part of the paper.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

City people see rural.

[Chuck Nice]

We're in the rural part of the.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Paper of the two dimensional.

[Chuck Nice]

Where the two dimensional. Where the dot said, I was out in the middle of the night, dot showed up, got bigger and bigger. Okay, go ahead.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So we can't explain that. We don't understand it. Right. And is it like the studying the elephant but you don't see the whole elephant? Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You get seven different descriptions. The trunk, the tusk, the leg, the toenails, the tail, the side. None of those comport until you take a step back and say you're all describing the same creature. Okay. And that's the full understanding that no one gets at first. Do you know what I just described?

[Chuck Nice]

A hole.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No. I described a sphere passing through the paper.

[Chuck Nice]

Because at one point it's just a dot because it's a single point of the sphere that's touching the two dimensional plane. Correct?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Exactly.

[Chuck Nice]

But as you continue to move the sphere through, then what you have is more points in the 360 degree sphere that keeps fanning out, but only in two dimensions. So they make a hole that keeps getting bigger.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They make a circle.

[Chuck Nice]

A circle. And then.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And how big does the circle get?

[Chuck Nice]

Whatever the size of the diameter and then you come back and then you down one point.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And here we are mysteriously inventing forces and phenomenon. And it's just a normal.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's just a normal sphere.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

In the higher dimension of this example, which is three dimensions, but to us.

[Chuck Nice]

To two dimensional in rural paper stand. Paper stand in rural paper stand. That was a serious phenomenon.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That was a serious phenomenon. And they were reporting that to the government and people are trying to capture the next one.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, wow, that's great.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So if higher dimensions pass through or otherwise interact, it can be very mysterious.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow, dude, what a great question.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So he was trying to account for the dark energy. I don't know what could be happening in a higher dimension to manifest in our dimensionality as dark energy.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Could. That could be a thing, right?

[Chuck Nice]

It could be.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

All right. This is Nat woods who says, g'day, Professor Tyson and Lord Nice Adelaide here from Australia. That was the best I could do, guys.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's pretty good.

[Chuck Nice]

I tried.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's. That's good. Not as good as your French accent.

[Chuck Nice]

No, but I try.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. Or your gumbo accent.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, he said, I was wondering if we can, if we can't ever truly touch anything. Could the space between particles be dark matter pulling the particles together or dark energy repulsing the particles? Well, there's another thing pulls particles. But anyway, I enjoy every podcast.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Editorialize on a man's question.

[Chuck Nice]

I was thinking out loud. Okay, sorry. I'm sorry. And I'm sorry, Nat. I enjoy every podcast. I remain inspired by you guys every day. Please keep up the good work.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Anyway, excellent.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, you answered.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Are you choosing those because people say nice things about you in each one?

[Chuck Nice]

I have no idea. Well, I've never seen. Okay, I should not say that. No, I would never do that.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

He's paid to read them in advance. Let the record show. Exactly. Okay, so now go ahead. I forgot the question.

[Chuck Nice]

So he's basically saying, like, if we can never touch anything truly, then could it be dark matter in between the touching? That's pushing or pulling.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right, so it turns out dark matter does not interact with itself as potently as regular matter does.

[Chuck Nice]

Interesting.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so when regular matter gets together.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Its molecules grab on. It makes solid objects, all kinds of things. Liquid, gas. It'll make. Okay, so we have regular matter planets.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We have rocks, because that's what regular matter does using the electromagnetic force, which, in case you were wondering. All right, dark matter, what we call dark matter, which is really dark gravity, does not respond to the electromagnetic force at all. At all.

[Chuck Nice]

Doesn't interact.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Doesn't interact.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So it doesn't interact with us that way.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Nor does it interact with itself that way. It does interact gravitationally, though. So you can have pockets of dark matter out there, but nowhere is it so dense that you have solid objects.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

As far as we can tell, there's no solid dark matter out there.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

By the way, if it was, if it did exist, it would just pass through you because it doesn't interact.

[Chuck Nice]

It doesn't interact anyway with any force.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That'S holding you together. It's got another instruction set.

[Chuck Nice]

Let it slip right through my hands.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So particles we already have accounted for their behavior with the forces that are known.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

There's nothing mysterious there. Now, he might have known that we don't actually touch things because there's an episode of Cosmos where we did that. As you bring two things together, you feel like you're touching, but what's happening is the electromagnetic forces are repelling each other and you're responding to the forces, thinking that it's a solid thing, but it's not.

[Chuck Nice]

And that is why you have 4 year olds all over the world and the backup cards going, I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

I'm not touching you. All right, here we go. Next up, this is Stetson. And Stetson says hello.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

This like Madonna that just share. He's Stetson.

[Chuck Nice]

He's just Stetson. He says hello. Dr. Tyson and Lord Nice Stetson here from the US but currently living in Japan. Oh, well, yes. Konichiwa. He says the study of planets, including ours, is quite fascinating. The internal structure of our planet is generally agreed upon. But how would we be able to understand the internal structure of other planets, even those nearby?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Great question, great question. So we make educated Guesses. And then we test the guess.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, we making this up?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, that's not what I said.

[Chuck Nice]

We just making it up as we go along. Oh, my God.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That is breaking news.

[Chuck Nice]

Breaking news.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right, let's take.

[Chuck Nice]

Go ahead.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Let's take Mercury.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Mercury, for example. Okay. Mercury is tiny, right?

[Chuck Nice]

Very small.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Small.

[Chuck Nice]

And closest to the sun, right?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, yeah, it's the closest planet.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

In fact, our moon might even be bigger than Mercury.

[Chuck Nice]

What?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, I didn't check that. I have to check that. But it's, it's, it's small. It's small.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. But it's a full up, legit planet. Okay, well, what's going on? Well, we can measure its mass. Its mass is way higher than it could possibly be if Mercury was composed only of rock, like the Moon. The Moon is made of rock through and through. Mercury has much more mass. So we go to the periodic table of elements and we say, here's the birth ingredients of the solar system.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We know that. Cause that's what the sun is made of. That's what Jupiter's. Jupiter didn't give up any mass that it was born with. So you look at the composition on Jupiter, it matches that of the sun. Okay. Anybody else who's different, you've been horse trading your ingredients along the way.

[Chuck Nice]

All right, so Jupiter was trying to be the sun.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's true.

[Chuck Nice]

That's what Jupiter was trying. Jupiter was just like, I'm gonna get one day.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

In fact, Jupiter is the only planet that radiates more energy than it receives from the sun. Ooh, I didn't know that's how wannabe it was.

[Chuck Nice]

That's how wannabe sun it was.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, it still does. It's already.

[Chuck Nice]

All right, that's a great factoid. Go ahead.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So I go to the periodic table and I say, of all these elements, some are very rare, some are not. Basically not really in the solar system. So I'm gonna ignore those which are common. And so nickel, iron, these are pretty common in the universe. So maybe I get the mass of Mercury fitting into that volume by throwing in something heavier than rock. Cause we know it's rock on the surface. Cause we see the cratering looks just like the surface of the Moon. Okay, so. But deep inside, what could be there? Now we know when it formed. Heavy stuff goes to the middle. Cause it's the fluid thing. It's molten.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

If you're molten and you're heavy, you're gonna sink.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You're gonna sink. Okay. So we ask ourselves how Much iron has to be there to give us that kind of mass, to get that mass at that size, which is basically the density.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So the average density. We construct the average density of the object pulling from the periodic table of elements we know are in the universe. So we find out it has a huge core of iron.

[Chuck Nice]

That's dope.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's dope.

[Chuck Nice]

That is dope. Okay. I'm. God damn it. That is science right there, buddy.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh. It works the other way, too.

[Chuck Nice]

Really?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We've discovered asteroids. Okay. And we know they're rocky, but we look at the density, and it's like these are way less dense than rock.

[Chuck Nice]

Rock. Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Less dense.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

What's going on?

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, that's so cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

What's going on? Cause you see the volume of it, and it's a fuzzy image. You know, we're not looking. These are not missions that go there.

[Chuck Nice]

It's not like we got binoculars. Harold.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Look at this ass droid.

[Chuck Nice]

Where'd you get Harold? I don't. Anyway, go ahead.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I know Harold and the purple crayon. Cause Harold went into the sky with his purple crayon.

[Chuck Nice]

There you go.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So I liked Harold.

[Chuck Nice]

It's a great. Yeah, everybody does.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So how do you have rock that has less mass than rock?

[Chuck Nice]

It ain't rock. What?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Well, it's gotta be made out of stuff that we know about.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So that was the first idea. That maybe some asteroids are piles of rubble.

[Chuck Nice]

Nice.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So that there's.

[Chuck Nice]

So they're coalesced, but they're not stuck together.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They're not stuck together.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So when we look at the total mass and the total size, the volume, some of that volume is taken up by nothing.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Confounding our deduction for what its density is.

[Chuck Nice]

Like a floating ball of pebbles.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Pebbles. They're big.

[Chuck Nice]

There's so much space in between each pebble that that floating ball will never have the density of a rock.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Overall density is lower than rock. So that matters, because we want to deflect an asteroid. You can't just go up to it and push on it. If it's a rubber pop.

[Chuck Nice]

Now you got a bunch of little rocks coming your way because you're Bruce Willis. You messed up bad.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So you get to push off a chunk of it and the rest doesn't. It's not attached.

[Chuck Nice]

Exactly.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

If it's not attached, you didn't have any effect on it.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So this density estimate. These density estimates are a major part of what folks in the solar system do.

[Chuck Nice]

Super cool, man.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So Mercury's small. It's the smallest planet.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

A title formally held by Pluto.

[Chuck Nice]

Poor Pluto.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Why do you gotta sigh like that? You in my office. There's no sympathy for Pluto in my office.

[Chuck Nice]

I know, but you're like, you know, you're like Kendrick and Drake. I mean, you won. You won. Why you gotta beat the guy up?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, but go ahead. Okay, so Mercury and the Moon are about the same size. Mercury might be a little bigger. However, Mercury has four times the mass of our moon.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Same size. Four times the mass.

[Chuck Nice]

Four times the mass.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And we know it's rocky on the surface because they both have equal looking features on the surface. So what's going on? We know the Moon has hardly any iron, right? Cause it was sideswiped off of Earth's crust from the.

[Chuck Nice]

It's crusty, baby. That's the moon. The Moon is crusty.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So we think iron rests deeply and largely within the center of Mercury, boosting its total mass relative to other normal objects. So that's how we roll when we make the calculations.

[Chuck Nice]

Very cool. All right, let's.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Time for a few more, I think.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, yeah, we got some time. Let's rock and roll here. This is western and we're getting through these quite. We are getting through.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We are actually getting it. This is like the most we've done.

[Chuck Nice]

And I hope people are recognizing that. We' to you as quickly as we can. Hello, Dr. Tyson Lord. Nice. I'm Wes from Davenport, Iowa, and I for one want to say I appreciate your programming expertise. It acquires more than you know. No, it requires exactly what we know. We're doing it anyway.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's an expression. More than you know.

[Chuck Nice]

It really is an expression. I. I know, and we appreciate it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

My question, by the way, I. I used to wrestle.

[Chuck Nice]

Go ahead.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Iowa knows wrestlers.

[Chuck Nice]

Iowa.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Iowa.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. That's cuz, you know, when you grow up wrestling cows, Is that what that is? Yeah, Getting is that way.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They kick my ass every time.

[Chuck Nice]

Circle don't mean nothing. I was. Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They're hauling cash.

[Chuck Nice]

Holding, hauling.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Where I put the cash? Put it over there.

[Chuck Nice]

Where I put this. That shoot over there, dummy. Yeah. Anyway.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I wrestle long tradition. Long proud tradition of wrestlers.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, Very cool. He says my question is regarding black holes and what happens when they collide with recent theory enhancements from great minds. Is there now mathematical equations that work to model this expected action and reaction? Can we mathematically reproduce the collision of black holes with absolute consistency?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yes. And because we have the mathematics of it, it's the math that predicted the black hole to begin with.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So we already had the math.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Cause it's not like here's this object. Oh my gosh. How do I describe it? Einstein's general theory of relativity predicted black holes even though he was anti black hole. Did you know this?

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. Well, he was a racist. They all were back then.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, he actually wasn't.

[Chuck Nice]

No, he wasn't.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No. If you read his ideas and opinions. It's a book.

[Chuck Nice]

Right. It was Hubble who was the racist.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, Hubble had issues.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, he had some issues.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Hubble had issues. When Marian Anderson, after she was denied singing opportunity, she's an opera singer in Constitution Hall, Washington D.C. because that was run by the Daughters of the King Confederacy. Okay. That's when Roosevelt said, you can sing on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. Einstein is active around then. This is like the 1930s. And I think it was the 30s, but Roosevelt was president regardless.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So, yeah, it would have been the 30s. We weren't at war yet. And she visited Princeton and visited Einstein on the Princeton campus.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. He was receiving people who were otherwise well known, but had issues with dealing with, you know, society, societal issues. Yeah. So he was a very forward thinking person.

[Chuck Nice]

Very cool. Well, yeah, I mean, it's great to see that being how he was so brilliant.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah. But also, I mean, as a Jew escaping the rise of Nazi Germany, he had some motivation. Yeah, he had. And some empathetic.

[Chuck Nice]

Empathetic, yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Because.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

And he predicted gravity waves, I mean, gravitational waves, which means that the math was already there.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Math was already there. Right, right. And so math was in place. And then we say must be, but he did not believe that matter would be. So he didn't think the universe would be that mean to matter.

[Chuck Nice]

Really.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Interesting.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. The matter is closing in on itself.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And it collapses with nothing to stop it.

[Chuck Nice]

Exactly.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Down to a singularity.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes. It doesn't make any sense.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It doesn't make any sense. So he said, it must, but it can't be. Right?

[Chuck Nice]

It can't be.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And then we have been up there and finding black holes.

[Chuck Nice]

Look at that.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We got them. That's so crazy. So, yes, it can be completely described. And what's interesting about it is the two black holes enter each other's event horizon. That's where it gets fun. Ooh.

[Chuck Nice]

Really?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

What if there isn't a dominant black hole? What if they are both mirror identities? What happens then?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, you. Cause you. You're imagining in most scenarios, one black hole is like dominant.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. One black hole is just like, you know, you in my part of space now.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And I'm hungry, right?

[Chuck Nice]

So I got news for you. We're gonna be one black hole. But it's gonn.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Did you one time imitate a black hole eating a. No. You had some voice. What was that?

[Chuck Nice]

No, what did I do? It was something. Oh no. Because I was sad. Black holes are just like, hey, hey, hey.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Cause that is exactly what they would sound like.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh my goodness.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

If they spoke English. And if sound could move through space, that's what they'd be saying.

[Chuck Nice]

Another black hole. A tasty snack. Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, but that's my point. My concept is that one of them would be dominant always.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

But the math doesn't.

[Chuck Nice]

It doesn't.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Doesn't care. Math doesn't. What is bigger, smaller, equal?

[Chuck Nice]

Doesn't make a difference.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Here's the thing. When they merge, you have a new black hole, right? That is exactly the mass of the two of them summed together.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, and that's all that counts.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's all accounts. And then you have a bigger black hole. There you go.

[Chuck Nice]

You think we're new, but we're not new.

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[Chuck Nice]

Foreign. This is Jared Higby, who says, greeting Dr. Tyson and Lord Chucky, baby. This is Jarrett Higby from Alamo, Nevada. Is the north and south sides of a magnet actually different in any way? Outside of the attraction and repelling effects, how would you determine which side of a magnet is which? Interesting. Okay, so you don't have anything to go on because you can't turn them and attract or turn them and repel. You have to determine which one is north and which one is south.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It is completely arbitrary. Really? Yes.

[Chuck Nice]

Do tell.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, I will. What I mean by arbitrary, it's that we all decide what to agree on, and then that's the answer.

[Chuck Nice]

Aha.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's not a fundamental thing in the universe that tells. This is north.

[Chuck Nice]

I got you.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

There's no whispering secret force operating on this. So by definition. Now think this. Remember, like, poles will do what they repel. Repel. And opposite poles attract.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. So by definition, if you have, let's say, a bar magnet. Cause it'll work better. Yes. It's easier. And you hold it with a string in the middle, and it'll turn. The part that points north on Earth is the north pole of the magnet.

[Chuck Nice]

And that's it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You just have to do that once, and that'll set all the other magnets straight.

[Chuck Nice]

And every other magnet is just like. That's it. That's it. It's been decided, guys.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's right.

[Chuck Nice]

There's no need to make a choice.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's been decided for.

[Chuck Nice]

It's been decided for us by that one.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so now what that means is if the north pole of your magnet is pointing to the north pole of the Earth, where is the Earth's south magnetic pole?

[Chuck Nice]

Wait a minute. If the. Wait. The north pole of the magnet.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yes.

[Chuck Nice]

Is pointed towards the north pole of.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

The Earth, what attracted it?

[Chuck Nice]

The south magnetic. Yes. I gotta go. No, come back, Chuck. Why need you. That's insane. The north pole is the south pole. Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

On Earth.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, my God. That is effing ridiculous.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, geez.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You didn't know that?

[Chuck Nice]

No, man. That's crazy.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Have you thought about that?

[Chuck Nice]

No.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

How do we. We call it at our north pole and north magnets point to it. Now you point a north pole to a North pole, and it repels.

[Chuck Nice]

Exactly.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Something's going. Something's going on there.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow. That's crazy.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yes. Earth's south magnetic pole.

[Chuck Nice]

Earth's the North Pole.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yes. That's insane.

[Chuck Nice]

I don't know what to believe anymore. I Can't believe anything anymore.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so now, so now we had someone ask from down under. You can ask, what makes that the North Pole of the Earth at all?

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Was that arbitrary?

[Chuck Nice]

Was that arbitrary as well?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Cause from where we're sitting, well, the.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Folks in the South Pole, they might have another opinion on the matter.

[Chuck Nice]

Exactly.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

Exactly.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's another one. Crikey. That's another one. That's decided by decree.

[Chuck Nice]

Arbitrary consensus.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay? And you know how we get it? You ask which way is the Earth spinning?

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. Curl your hand, take your right hand, curl your fingers in the direction Earth is spinning. Now point your thumb up. That's the North Pole.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, look at that. So that's it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's it.

[Chuck Nice]

But suppose most people were left handed.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Then there's no left hand rule. It's only a right hand rule.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay? And now there's your problem.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Plus most people are not left handed.

[Chuck Nice]

That's my point. We're discriminated against left hand.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

If left people dominated, if we were.

[Chuck Nice]

Dominantly left handed, we would probably done it the other way.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, so then the North Pole would have been in the south. Yeah. If they did the left hand rule.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, you do that for any rotating object, right. That's how you can say that the planet uranus is tipped 98 degrees from the vertical.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

How's that possible if you just have another axis that's up there? Because the right hand rule, it's the speed, takes it down down below.

[Chuck Nice]

That's so cool, man. Yeah, that's very cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You can have a planet that's 180 degrees flipped, right? Why don't you just say, well, just call that north? No, because the rotation. Yeah, okay.

[Chuck Nice]

Ooh, that's so cool, man. All right, here we go.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right, I think we have time for one more question.

[Chuck Nice]

One more or two?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

If I answer each and half the time I did the math. Okay, go, go.

[Chuck Nice]

Here we go. This is Hugo Dart. He says, hello, Dr. Tyson. Lord. Nice. This is Hugo Dart from Rio de Janeiro. Br he says, with my seven year old daughter Olivia, who is a big fan of your show. Here's my question. If you had to bet on one breakthrough in astrophysics happening in the next 50 years, what would that one breakthrough be?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It would. We would know for sure whether there was life elsewhere in the solar system, not on Earth.

[Chuck Nice]

Cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Either in the oceans of Europa or in the soils of Mars with where we think water has gone. We will know for sure whether there is or there is not.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And if there Is not. That's important information.

[Chuck Nice]

Very much so.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And if there is, that's even more important. I think we'll know that probably in the next 30 years based on missions that are scheduled. Another question.

[Chuck Nice]

So, okay, here we go. This is Logan Sinnett who says, hello, Dr. Tyson Lord.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Nice. Logan's cool name.

[Chuck Nice]

Logan is a cool name.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That is badass, he says.

[Chuck Nice]

This is Logan from Phoenix, Arizona here. Have you mentioned that the best telescope dope discoveries are unexpected discoveries? So I was wondering if the JWST has made any interesting unexpected discoveries thus far. And if so, which one interests you most?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

When I was coming up, there was the record for what's the farthest object in the universe?

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And it's measured by redshift. So. And the. With the letter Z. And there's a mathematical form for that. But the bigger is the Z, the bigger is the. The farther away the object is.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

In my day, the farthest objects were Z of five.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. When I was growing up, coming up in ranks, we might have hit six when we built the Rose Center 25 years ago.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

The farther away it is, the closer back in time. It's getting to the beginning of the correct.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

But not only that, start from the beginning of the universe. You couldn't make anything until the universe cooled down. All right? To the point where matter forms like atoms form. Now we have atoms now the atoms can coalesce and make stars before they make stars. The universe is still expanding. We call that the Dark Ages. Hasn't made stars yet.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. We called it the Dark Ages.

[Chuck Nice]

Interesting.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right. JWST looks around. Found galaxies in the Dark Ages. Redshift 14.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh my gosh. 14. That's crazy.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

My head is exploding.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So first what? A galaxy at redshift 14. Holy shit. Okay. A B, that's in the dark Ages. When ain't supposed to be there when.

[Chuck Nice]

It'S not supposed to be there. So now we have an incongruency. Time wise.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yes. Or we don't understand how.

[Chuck Nice]

We just don't understand how galaxies form.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Correct.

[Chuck Nice]

Or we had a totally cool dark galaxy. Hey, baby, it's me, your dark galaxy. You can call me the chocolate galaxy if you want.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's all the time we have.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes. That was great.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We got a lot in there, man.

[Chuck Nice]

We got so many questions in. Okay, so shut up. No.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

This has been StarTalk Cosmic Queries Edition. Neil Degrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist as always. Keep looking up.

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