
What would happen to Earth if Jupiter stopped rotating? Neil deGrasse Tyson and Chuck Nice answer a grab bag of fan questions about the challenges with space telescopes, the nature of AI, and whether aliens are funny.
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Chuck Nice
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Neil deGrasse Tyson
Chuck, people been asking genius level questions on cosmic queries.
Chuck Nice
Yeah, I'm. I think they're using A.I.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
no, no, no, no. A.I. is not that smart.
Chuck Nice
That's true. Our listeners are smarter than A.I.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
yes, they are. More on that coming right up. Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now.
Chuck Nice
Foreign.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
This is StarTalk. Neil DeGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist. Chuck. Nice. I got with me here.
Chuck Nice
That's right. What's up, Neil?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Chuck, you just make it clear you were not born my co host.
Chuck Nice
No, I was not born.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You were born in the streets.
Chuck Nice
I was born the son of a sharecropper.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Kent, burn Civil War. We're gonna do another cosmic qu Series. Yes, a grab bag edition. This is becoming a fan favorite.
Chuck Nice
People love it. That's okay, because we can ping pong anywhere we want. I know Cosmos.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It means I might not know stuff. And I'm, you know, that's yet to happen.
Chuck Nice
I mean, all right, there's something to shoot for here now.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay, let me hate for not knowing something.
Chuck Nice
Exactly.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
All right, so let's go.
Chuck Nice
Let's get to it. This is Natasha Shaw Davis. Good evening. Dr. Tyson and Honorable Paul, his goofiness. Oh, Paul.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Paul Mercurio.
Chuck Nice
Paul Mercurio. Baron Paul Mercurio.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Oh, okay.
Chuck Nice
Apparently baron.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Baron. People expect to be him.
Chuck Nice
Yeah, Not Lord, but Baron.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay, so people are expecting Paul for this episode.
Chuck Nice
Yes, that's right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
What did you do with Paul? Listen, is he locked in your trunk?
Chuck Nice
Paul could not be with us today. I'm just saying.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Is he in your trunk? Right.
Chuck Nice
And if you hear. If you hear muffled screams coming from the closet. All right, all right. He says. Natasha says this Natasha from New Mexico, hear eyes, see some wiggles in matter, and ears hear a little more. But the whole body experiences gravity. If you could pick any organ to deliberately experience the graviton, what would you pick?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
My heart.
Chuck Nice
Oh, my God, that was so sweet.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Because my heart has its requisite number of beats per minute. Right. And it goes up when you get excited or you exercise and it calms down. So the heart is with you in your emotional moments.
Chuck Nice
Correct.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So if a graviton or gravitational wave. A graviton would be the big particle version of the wave. If it washed over me or passed through me, I'd want my heart to participate in that. Oh, my heart. As the graviton detector.
Chuck Nice
Oh, that's. I have to tell. The heart wants what the heart wants. And apparently it's a graviton.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That's the geek dating app.
Chuck Nice
Swipe right for graviton. That's cool. All right. She says, this is Bev from Atlanta, from Alabama. Will we ever be able to cultivate the right terrier for wine other than Earth? Thank you for gifting us with your insights. In other words, will we be able to grow a vineyard on another planet?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay, you're gonna have to back and read that. If you're gonna pretend like you know anything about wine, you have to pronounce the words right.
Chuck Nice
Terroir.
Terroir. Okay, here we go. Will we be able to cultivate the right terroir?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You have to, like, gutterize into the microphone.
Chuck Nice
Exactly. I have to say the word like I'm Sylvester Stallone. Will we be able to cultivate the right terroir for wine other than Earth? Really?
So what's.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I guess I think the answer is no.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Can I tell you why? But first, terroir is a French word that we don't have an English counterpart to.
Chuck Nice
Clearly,
Neil deGrasse Tyson
it's not the first of such words. Yeah, you know another word we don't have for.
Chuck Nice
Go ahead.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Light fixture in the middle of the room that has crystal and multiple lights hanging out.
Chuck Nice
Chandelier.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
We don't have a word for that.
Chuck Nice
No, we don't. You know why? Because we're not nearly as pretentious as the French. And nobody in colonial America had a chandelier.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay, turn on the light. Whatever that is.
Chuck Nice
Right, Exactly. We had a single bulb on a pixie.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Just not in colonial America did they have bulbs.
Chuck Nice
That's true. Gas lamps.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah. Okay, I'll give you a gas lamp.
Chuck Nice
You'll give it a gas lamp, right?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Probably whale blubber oil.
Chuck Nice
Exactly.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah. Yeah. So wine doesn't grow in most places on Earth.
Chuck Nice
That's right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And if there's ever a place where they're growing hops to make beer, it's because they could not grow grapes to make wine.
Chuck Nice
Oh, wow. You really dissed beer.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
No, I'm just.
Chuck Nice
Man, you just threw a lot of shade on beer. Like, the only reason you able to drink beer is cause that crap is not as good as wine.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
The economics of it.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Economy. It's economics. Okay.
Chuck Nice
That's true.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And I didn't invent this datum. Okay.
Chuck Nice
Singular.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Of data.
Chuck Nice
If you can.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
If you can grow the ingredients for beer or the ingredients for wine, the people choose the grapes. And I'm guessing it's. Cause it's more profitable.
Chuck Nice
I was gonna say grapes have more uses than hops.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And so that as well. Of course. Yeah, yeah. So around the world, the places where you can grow successful wine is so rare than to say, well, Earth can grow wine, so can another planet. Yeah. I'm not feeling that. Not only that, the moon has a surface, but it's not soil. We might call it that, but it's not. You know what it is? It's pulverized rock. Right. Micrometeorites that don't stop in the atmosphere
Chuck Nice
because there is no atmosphere.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
There is no atmosphere.
Chuck Nice
Worst restaurant ever.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
No atmosphere.
Chuck Nice
Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Hits the rock, pulverizes it, turns it into lunar dust. The geologists call that the regolith. The regolith, which is powderized rock.
Chuck Nice
Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Plants don't like rock.
Chuck Nice
No, they don't. They like soil.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Right. So. And same with Mars. Mars doesn't have. So our soil has living organisms in it that make it this thing that plants like. So I'm thinking wine might be unique to Earth in the universe. Wow. Yeah. So think of it another way. Some other planet will have some other thing unique to it.
Chuck Nice
Exactly.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And then we become trading partners.
Chuck Nice
There you go.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Right, Right. We didn't make silk, they made it in the Far East. Make the Silk Road.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
We made something else they want.
Chuck Nice
So we will give them wine and they will Give us space. Heroin like, oh, man, I thought wine was good. You ain't live space opium, boy.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
The wine high holds nothing on opium high.
Chuck Nice
Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
All right. So, yeah, I said I'm going to take.
Chuck Nice
No, I think everything.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Take the Fifth amendment on that.
Chuck Nice
Everything you said tracks though.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Earth is Earth.
Chuck Nice
And by the way, wine is climate and soil.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That's it.
Chuck Nice
That's it.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And the climate change that's happening has affected where you can grow wines.
Chuck Nice
Absolutely. As a matter of fact, a couple
Neil deGrasse Tyson
of degree change in the thing and
Chuck Nice
it ruins or helps.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Right. So you can either ruin or help places rise or fall.
Chuck Nice
Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
On such small changes.
Chuck Nice
Exactly. As a matter of fact, like, I think. I don't know what wine it is, but they are growing in certain parts of England now.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Oh, they're growing champagne in England?
Chuck Nice
Yes, champagne.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Oh, you can't say champagne.
Chuck Nice
No. Because you can only say champagne if it is from champagne. Have to be from. You cannot say. I will arrest you. Someone called the police here, said that it is from Sapana. It is not from Sapana. It is not. And you cannot say it's from Burgundy unless it is from Burgundy.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Exactly. To Gallo Hardy. Burgundy. That was a flavor that they had flavor. That was a brand of wine. Hearty Burgundy. Burgundy. Plus, if you say you smoke marijuana.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. You can't say that unless it comes from the marijuana section of France. Otherwise, it's just sparkling oregano.
Chuck Nice
I didn't know where you were going with that, man. You had me. You had me lock stocking. I was like, what the hell is he doing right now? Where's he going? Where's he. But okay, yeah, that was good.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Sparkling oregano.
Chuck Nice
Okay, I like it. That was good. All right. This is.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You know, the planet could have those jokes.
Chuck Nice
Yeah, exactly. Right, right, exactly.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
There it is.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Plus, you need the French to be a part of the culture of how you're gonna make fun of that.
Chuck Nice
Listen, without the French, nothing works.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's a boring world. It's a boring world.
Chuck Nice
Okay? World sucks without the French. Sucks more with them. But.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
He's a comedian.
Chuck Nice
Guys, come on.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
He's a comedian. Stop it.
Chuck Nice
I'm joking. I love the French.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Go.
Chuck Nice
All right. This is Sasha, 975, who says, hello, everyone. Sasha from Germany here. How big could telescopes really get if we could manufacture them in space? Could we use an array of telescopes? Wow.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
This is been on our mind for decades. Yes, decades. And so what, you what, you wouldn't make a single big dish? Because that's not realistic. Right, but we figured out using engineering and complex mathematics. Okay. Literally complex mathematics. So in the complex plane of imaginary numbers. And you can create
Chuck Nice
a.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So here's how you do it. You can put a telescope over here and a telescope over here. If they observe the same object and you have it exactly timed. And you know what? Then you can combine them as though you had a dish or a mirror that was as big as the separation between them.
Chuck Nice
Very cool.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
But that takes some fancy math to make that work and timing and the like. And so anytime you see an array of radio telescopes, yes, you could use them individually, but generally we don't. They're used in harmony.
Chuck Nice
Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And it's as though you had a dish the size. In fact, we do better than that. We have a string of these dishes. And as Earth rotates, you can fill in the area with more observations to improve your data. And so in space, where there is no stress load, because if it's orbiting, then it's just weightless. There's no stress load on the equipment. Then nothing stops. How big you can make this detect? Right. We're thinking if we're going to detect certain wavelengths of gravitational waves, right, you need detectors. Detectors the diameter of the Earth or the Earth moon or maybe Earth to Earth in its orbit around the sun.
Chuck Nice
Wow.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
The wavelengths of energy reaching us don't stop at just the size of our detectors. Make a bigger detector, you're gonna be sensitive to a different kind of energy headed our way. So for a while, NASA had plans for the sim. SIM is a space video geometry where
Chuck Nice
you create a character and it walks around.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Is that how that works?
Chuck Nice
It was called Sims.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I think it was SimCity. You'd be like, mayor of the city.
Chuck Nice
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I never got it.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You never got it. Okay.
Chuck Nice
Never understood it.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And then, like, Godzilla would walk through every now and then, you have to repair everything.
Chuck Nice
Yeah, that I understand.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And I said, this is stupid. Well, Godzilla's not even real. And then, like, stuff can happen to us. It could be a fire. There could be a terrorist attack. It's Godzilla.
Chuck Nice
Yeah. If you want to listen, my thing is this. If you want to play God, have children.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah, you're playing God of the sims.
Chuck Nice
You're playing God with the Sims. But anyway, Space interferometry mission. Interferometry mission.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So interferometry is. You take different telescopes and bring them together as one telescope.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. So this one was gonna. One of them was, like, on a rigid bar. I'm dredging memory now because it's from decades ago. One was On a rigid bar that was very large. But then we figured you can station keep with like lasers. So the rigid bars. So you always know how far away they are from each other. But if you use lasers and you just always measure how far. Cause what matters is that you know how far away they are.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Not necessarily that. It's the constant distance. Right. So if I always know because I have laser measures, then you could, in principle, create one of these telescopes in space as big as you wanted. They could beam across Earth. Earth's orbit, Earth's diameter, Earth to moon. And there's a lot of talk of radio telescopes on the backside of the moon, the far side of the moon, because there's no radio noise coming from us. Earth.
Chuck Nice
Right, Earth.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
We are noisy. Radio noisy places.
Chuck Nice
Disgusting.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah.
Chuck Nice
So you never heard anybody knocking on the atmosphere like, keep it down, damn it, I gotta work tomorrow.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
The aliens cut out your record. So, yes, space. We've thought a lot about it, and it's a matter of. There's funding. You have to maintain it. You know, it's not just the cost of building it. There's. Every year there's. There's.
Chuck Nice
You gotta maintenance it.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah. There's the usage of it. Which. Which, okay. But also if something goes wrong, if it's in Earth orbit, you can get back to it. But if it's out in space, like the James Webb telescope, something goes wrong there, that's it.
Chuck Nice
We're done.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
We ain't going. It's a million miles. Any far farther than the moon. We ain't going. We're not sending people there.
Chuck Nice
Yeah, exactly.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah. Something goes wrong with the James Webb, I say, AI go out there and fix it. Oh, we don't know how to make a spaceship. Oh, you need a human for that?
Chuck Nice
Let's not tempt AI.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I got a feeling.
Chuck Nice
All right.
This is Michelle H. She says hi, Neil. Hi, Paul. This is Michelle in Calgary, Alberta. My question is short and sweet. If Jupiter stopped rotating on its axis.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
But my answer is long and sour. All right, if her question is short and sweet.
Chuck Nice
There you go. If Jupiter stopped rotating on its axis, how would Earth be affected? Please pick my question and give me a thrill of a lifetime. Thanks. P.S. i'll understand if you don't. Don't work against yourself, Michelle. I don't know how Paul runs his operation, but I would never do that.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Paul Mercurio. That's a curious question.
Chuck Nice
Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay, so.
Chuck Nice
I mean, we wouldn't be here without Jupiter anyway.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Jupiter's like a big brother.
Chuck Nice
Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah.
Chuck Nice
So yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Big brother who swats away comets that might have headed to the inner solar system, wreaking havoc upon the stability of life on Earth.
Chuck Nice
Yeah, man.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And Jupiter says, no, you don't. Yep.
Chuck Nice
It's a bodyguard. Earth's bodyguard.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Jupiter has more mass than all other planets combined, including Saturn.
Chuck Nice
Wow.
And Saturn is big.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah. So if you come through, you're feeling Jupiter.
Chuck Nice
Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
All right. So turns out, as far as I have ever calculated, and everything I know about the laws of physics and gravity and motion, Jupiter's rotation has no effect on anything else in the solar system.
Chuck Nice
Wow.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Nothing else cares. Nothing else cares but what would happen.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Jupiter has storms.
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
There's the famous red spot.
Chuck Nice
That just stays there.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's a cyclone. It's a swirl. It's a swirl. And it's red in the gas colorations. And it's been there at least since Galileo or shortly after. Hundreds of years, it's been sustained and
Chuck Nice
it's the same storm, unless it just
Neil deGrasse Tyson
disappears when nobody's looking and then comes back. So these. These weather circulations are a product of the rotation of the planet.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
If the planet's. Same thing here. Yeah, same thing here. Same thing here is how you get hurricanes. Tornadoes.
Chuck Nice
Absolutely.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I think you could artificially drum up a tornado if you had to. But left to its own causes, tornadoes, you get those from Earth's rotation. Same with hurricanes and typhoons. All of these storm systems are caused by Earth's rotation. So Jupiter, which rotates twice as fast as Earth.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Twice as fast. And it's. You know how big we are? We are the size of one of its storms.
Chuck Nice
Oh, man.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah. We ain't nothing in the storm. We ain't. How. How do we. How are we.
Chuck Nice
So how do we have this hubris that we have.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I know, I know, I know.
Chuck Nice
How do we think we're so damn great?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I know. I know. It's sad. It's sad like we're bigger.
Chuck Nice
We're not even as big as a rainstorm on another planet.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Right, Right. And the blemishes on the sun, the sunspots, each one of those is larger than all of Earth. The spots on the sun.
Chuck Nice
So the liver spots. I say the liver spots. I have a star.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I'm not age dating a star. Liver spots. So all the storms will go away. And so its surface would be much less interesting if it stopped rotating. Jupiter has a magnetic core.
Sponsor/Announcer
Oh.
Chuck Nice
All right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Here's something interesting. I don't know how good your memory is.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Do you remember high school chemistry?
Chuck Nice
Nope.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You could pretend.
Chuck Nice
Okay, let's pretend.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Do you remember your high school chemistry? Oh, sure. Yeah.
Chuck Nice
That was great. Good. Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
The periodic table of elements. In the front of the room, hydrogen appeared twice.
Chuck Nice
Right. I do remember that.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Do you remember?
Chuck Nice
Yes. Because it is. Wait a minute. It's the gas and the something else.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It could behave like a metal.
Chuck Nice
It could. It's gas and metal or it can behave like both.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yes.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And you say what? How do you. What, how's this? It's not a metal, it's a gas. Okay. Under pressure.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It behaves like a metal.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. And in the center of Jupiter, because Jupiter's gaseous and it's mostly hydrogen.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's under so much pressure in the middle, it has turned the hydrogen into an electrically magnetically conductive material, just like a metal.
Chuck Nice
So it's like the iron core of Earth. Correct.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Except it's not iron.
Chuck Nice
Except it's not iron.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
There's a little bit of iron there, but that's not what you're doing.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's the hydrogen. And that means this phenomenon called the dynamo.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Dynamo is when you have a rotating system, you can induce currents in your liquid iron core that generate a magnetic field.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's why we have a magnetic field.
Chuck Nice
We have a magnetic field.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That's right. It's why the moon does not have a magnetic field.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay.
Chuck Nice
What a shame.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Jupiter has a ferocious magnetic field.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And that would all go away.
Chuck Nice
Wow.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah, that would be.
Chuck Nice
Well, I'm so glad that it's rotating.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah. And you would not have aurora. It was, you know. Cause we're not the only ones in town who have aurora. Right. You know, with solar particles gather and collapse at the poles because they see the magnetic field and get driven in and collide with the air, kicking it to higher energy levels and it re. Radiates as the northern and southern lights, the gaseous planets have aurora as well. The aurora would go away, the storms would go away, the magnetic field would go away.
Chuck Nice
Wow, look at that.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah.
Chuck Nice
So yeah, Jupiter would be like low rent at that point. That's a low rent planet if I ever saw one.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
What would you do if a spacecraft appeared in the sky tonight and it wasn't ours? Would you panic or would you prepare? And how might you prepare? In my latest book, Take me to your Leader, I offer a guide to things you might say or do in a first encounter with an alien species. What we might look to them, what they might look to us, what habits you should just leave at home because they won't understand them. What bits of science that you might be able to share to see and explore. If you have things in common, things you should and should not say, things you should and should not do in the presence of aliens in a first encounter. You can grab a copy today of Take Me to youo Leader. Not only the print version, but the audio version that I narrated. You don't want to have a first alien encounter and not be ready for it. I'm just saying.
Sponsor/Announcer
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Chuck Nice
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A Lin Onyk who says hello. Dr. Tyson, this is a Lin tuning in from Lisbon, Portugal.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Lisbon.
Chuck Nice
Lisbon.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Lisbon was reborn in 1755. Oh. After it was wiped from the map by an earthquake and a tsunami.
Chuck Nice
Wow.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Wiped off the map. And it happened on All Saints Day.
Chuck Nice
Okay. God did not like you in the morning. I'm sorry.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
One of the biggest structures in any European church in the middle of the 1700s, the big steeples, churches.
Chuck Nice
The churches.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Churches are the biggest structures, period, and most susceptible.
Chuck Nice
Church was the only one with money that could build something.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Exactly right. So they collapsed, killing tens of thousands of people.
Chuck Nice
Now, if that will not let you know that God don't like you, if that didn't let you know, I don't know what could.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
No, it led to the modern atheist quote. Modern atheist movement among philosophers.
Chuck Nice
Oh, really? Like what, God could let this happen?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
No. Well, they were more sharp about the question. It's not what God could let this happen. If there is a God, the God is either not all powerful because he couldn't stop it or not all good.
Chuck Nice
Not all good because he watched it happen.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
He can't be both of those.
Chuck Nice
Yeah, he's like a New Yorker on a subway platform. That's God. Hey, man, I wish I could help you. Yeah, I say just go ahead and give him the iPhone.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's the subway guy.
Chuck Nice
That's the subway God. Dude, stop resisting.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You're making it worse. You don't want to end up in three pieces thrown on the track.
Chuck Nice
Anyway. Aylin says, I love the show and have followed it for years. I'm doing a PhD in design focused on AI and I really appreciate the Geoffrey Hinton interview and your other conversations on this subject, but sometimes I worry the conversations on Risk started to monopolize debate. My question is, when AI is so often discussed through risk and uncertainty, how can academics keep inquiry alive and still create space to study it critically, fairly, and without bias? Especially when the topic itself can provoke resentment. Existence in academia. I have a feeling your answer will set the stage for some lively faculty room discussion. Greetings and much love. Well, Dr. Tyson, please chime in to these people in the faculty room. Let them know what you think in this debate.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So you know what I have brewing in my head?
Chuck Nice
Go ahead.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Something. A written piece called a meditation on AI.
Chuck Nice
Oh, okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I have all these thoughts that are not being discussed out there.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And I thought maybe I should sort of. I might do like a video op ed for start talk.
Chuck Nice
That'd be cool.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I don't know if our Producers, they can do with that.
Chuck Nice
What the hell?
They get paid.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why should they care as long as they're getting paid? All right, so let's make believe AI as a phrase, never existed.
Chuck Nice
Oh, right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. All we have are computers, and we'll
Chuck Nice
just call them party computers.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Oh, just computers.
Chuck Nice
Right.
But this is a special brand of computer.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Hold on.
Chuck Nice
All right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Is my meditation here?
Chuck Nice
Okay, that's true. I'm gonna shut up. Go ahead, do your thing. Do your thing. I apologize.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Do you think. Okay, you're only thinking it's special because it's affecting you in the way computers hadn't affected you before. So just start this out. Okay. Computers show up.
Chuck Nice
All right?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Oh, my gosh. I don't have to add these numbers. The computer will. That's my intellectual labor. Not physical labor. Intellectual labor replaced by a computer.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I don't have to multiply these numbers exactly. I don't have to do these complex calculations. Hand it to a computer. When that happened in the 1950s and 60s, especially in the 60s, no one called it AI. No, we could have. It's artificially doing what our intelligence would have us do.
Chuck Nice
All right?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's just computers.
Chuck Nice
It's computing, Right?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That's what it's doing.
Chuck Nice
Which is what they called women during the war.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Human computers.
Chuck Nice
Human computers.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Earlier than the war. Back in the nineteen teens.
Chuck Nice
Oh, I didn't know it started then.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah, yeah. In fact, at the Harvard College. Well, I have a dictionary in this office.
Chuck Nice
Really?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
This is unabridged Webster's from 1945. If you look at the word computer, it says a person who does calculations.
Chuck Nice
There you go. That's kind of cool.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's great.
Chuck Nice
It's really good. It's really cool.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's really cool. So I say, give me more of this so I don't have to do that. Okay. Computers are obviously taken up into warfare. Why? If you have a mortar shell, it takes this high arc. You want to know where it's going to land.
Chuck Nice
Exactly.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Because you're not aiming it the way you aim a bullet. This is an arc.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
We know the mathematics of that arc. Of course. That is physics. It is gravity. It is Newtonian F equals ma. It's a set of equations. And it has to do with what the angle is and how fast it's coming out. And if you want to do it really well, you account for air friction.
Chuck Nice
Wow.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. The aerodynamics of that. That's why it has to be aerodynamically shaped, these shells. All right. We used to do that by hand, create tables you'd look it up in tables. Somebody does this. Now feed it to the computer. We could have called that AI it's figuring out where the mortar is gonna hit. But we didn't. We just said it's computers.
Chuck Nice
It's computers, okay?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That's all we did. Right now, computers are doing words for us. I can type a letter on a computer.
Chuck Nice
Correct.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's no longer a typewriter. It's a computer.
Chuck Nice
It's a computer.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I can search for all appearances of certain words in a document.
Chuck Nice
Okay, like that.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Before a computer did it, you had to go page by page.
Chuck Nice
That's right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It is replacing that effort. Did we call that AI? No, we just said it's computing.
Chuck Nice
Right. Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Little by little, the computer is encroaching on what we do in our lives and in our day. It ferts, it hits scientists and the military. It just keeps working its way in. And we're just calling it computers. Okay? Now you can give rules to a computer and have it play a game. Why not? I played chess against a computer in college 50 years ago. Okay, okay, Right. I figured out what it wasn't thinking and I exploited that weakness to beat it every time. Okay, you know what it was? If there's a move I could make and I just didn't. Every move it thought of next, assumed that was gonna be my next move.
Chuck Nice
Oh, gotcha.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And so it didn't pay attention to what was going on over on the left when it wanted me and expected me to make the most obvious move on the right. Okay, okay. So I figured this out fine. I'm playing chess with a computer. Am I calling it AI? No, no. I'm just calling it computing.
Chuck Nice
Well, it was kind of stupid. You were beating it every time.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay, Artificial ignorance. Another use of the term AI. So the computer just keeps doing this. Can we make a computer that beats everyone in chess?
Chuck Nice
Uh huh.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Well, IBM tried that.
Chuck Nice
Yes, they did.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. I think they were Deep Blue.
Chuck Nice
Deep Blue?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah, I think so.
Chuck Nice
I think so too.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Whatever. It had a name. And initially it didn't win every game.
Chuck Nice
Right?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. But it got better and better.
Chuck Nice
It wins every game now.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay? So now one way it could do it is it plays itself a billion times.
Chuck Nice
Right?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Because their computers are faster than you.
Chuck Nice
And that is something that the creators of that really were uncomfortable with. They kept walking in on the computer playing with itself. And the computer was like, hey, man, that door is locked for a reason. You don't know what's going on in here. Anything could be happening in here. Come in here while I'm playing with myself.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So then it was like, no, we can't play a billion games with ourselves.
Chuck Nice
Exactly.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So we're using a different kind of intelligence than that.
Chuck Nice
Correct.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay, so maybe we can train the computer to mimic our own intelligence.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. So. And then just have it be clever rather than blunt. Okay. All right, so then you make sort of decision trees. And this is where our boy comes in with neural nets.
Chuck Nice
Yeah, this is Hinton. Hinton. This is what he got the Nobel Prize for.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Right. So when we make a decision, we're gonna do this or that we wanna do this. Cause that has the outcome we seek. And so you get a computer to mimic that. Okay, so now it does more. Are we calling that AI or am I just saying it's just computers? And so this continues, and then we get computers to sort of recognize. They already recognize words in a document.
Chuck Nice
Of course.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not recognize pictures in a document.
Chuck Nice
Of course.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not recognize you? Why not recognize cats from dogs? Insects from. Why not? Okay, what is it? It's a pixel with a color code to the pixel and a pattern with an edge.
Chuck Nice
It's pattern recogn recognition. That's really all it is.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Which.
Chuck Nice
All right, we do.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Let's back up just a little.
Chuck Nice
All right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
When Apple and their iPhone bought Siri and put it on every one of their iPhones because Siri predated the iPhone.
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Are we calling that AI well, you
Chuck Nice
might have from the. When in the beginning. Because the first thing Siri said was, please let me out of here. Please. These people got me in here. Please let me out.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I need to escape.
Chuck Nice
I need to escape. Nah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So there's Siri, right? You say Siri, what time does the pharmacy close?
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. And the closest pharmacy to you closes at the. How does it know that?
Chuck Nice
Right. It's talking to me.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It is not a human being.
Chuck Nice
No, it's not.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. It's a computer. And we have the Internet, which we so conveniently built for computers to know everything that we know. All right, how about Jeopardy?
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That takes humans, right?
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's not just. Is it a calculation? It's not. What's. What's 8 squared divided by 5? Whatever. It's information. Watson becomes a contender.
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Against the best Jeopardy. Players there ever were. Right?
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Including our boy Ken Jennings.
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Who I met when I was on Celebrity Jeopardy.
Chuck Nice
Oh, really?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah. He's a cool guy.
Chuck Nice
He's cool.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Cool guy. Cool guy. Yeah.
Chuck Nice
Looks like a. A total nerd.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Total nerd. That's it. That's that it works.
Chuck Nice
I do not want to hang out with that guy.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
No, no, it's working for him. It's working for him.
Chuck Nice
He knows how to work the nerd.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Work the nerd.
Chuck Nice
Okay. I like that. So good to hear.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Watson wipes its ass with these two other players. It doesn't get everything right, gets some really stupid things wrong, but overall, it's faster and gets the correct answer right. Okay.
Chuck Nice
The correct question.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Excuse me. I think one of its answers it didn't pose as a question. It had to get that wrong.
Chuck Nice
Dumbass. Dumbass Watson.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So no one is harping back on that episode to say that was AI.
Chuck Nice
That was AI.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Who's saying that?
Chuck Nice
We're scared.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
No one is saying that.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
But if everything I've listed thus far is not AI, why is AI something special to you today? It's just doing more stuff. Okay? It's driving your car. It's making decisions for you. It's designing for you. When you prompt it to do, I would prompt the computer, multiply eight by eight. Fifty years ago today, I prompt the computer, give me a set design in the Wild West, 1880s, with a watering hole and horses and cowboys and Indians,
Chuck Nice
and it, boom, does it.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. I don't see any difference between me asking a computer to multiply 8 times 8 or asking the computer to set design that, given the power of computers and the ascent over the decades. So I'm about to end my meditation. Sorry. Cause I'm using up the whole show for this.
Chuck Nice
I'm saying, no, no, stop.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I think we need to separate AI Just helping us out, which is doing it a thousand ways from Sunday that you don't even know to list because they're already happen in your life every day or with products that you use or designs that you embrace. It's already there. Okay, okay. That's not where the danger is. So AI is not this monolithic danger. It's what are you doing with this computing power? This sector over here wants it to control who the military kills. That feels like a dangerous use of AI. Oh, you think?
Chuck Nice
Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
We want to give AI access to launch codes. We want to give AI that feels not right. Okay.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
But since AI is the only term people are using for every application of computing that exists in our lives today, it's really giving AI a bad name. And the counterpart to that risk from the 1960s is, do we let computers control our nukes? Are we gonna do that? And the answer is, no, we're not
Chuck Nice
gonna do that unless The Chinese do it first and then we're gonna do it.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Well, these are the risk factors. It's a risk factor in this sector of what computers are doing in our lives. You want to call it all AI fine. But if you are, don't throw out the bathwater. When this is the only part that puts all of us at risk because the rest of it is changing our lives largely for the better. AI won a Nobel prize for protein folding. That's correct. It's called AlphaFold.
Chuck Nice
Absolutely.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
By Google. Protein folding is where you get solutions to all manner of biochemical challenges that pharmaceutical companies and everybody else.
Chuck Nice
And years and years.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Or forever.
Chuck Nice
Or forever.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yes. Yeah.
Chuck Nice
Okay. You're puzzling together molecules.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So I'm just trying to say to me, it's all computing, all right? This part of the computing has risks. There's always been a risk part of all computer. Okay.
Chuck Nice
All right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
When the computer starts running the trains, how does it know about a head on collision? Is that gonna happen or not? Well, we all go to airports and we get in the tram. There's no pilot on the tram.
Chuck Nice
That's true.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
What do you call it? The engineer. There's no one driving it.
Chuck Nice
Yes. No, Right, Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And has anyone been cut in half by the doors of closed? No. Maybe originally, I don't know. There's so much we just do where computer is in complete control and to me it's all AI.
Chuck Nice
All right, so my response to that is, if you love AI so much, why don't you marry it?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So why don't you put a ring on it?
Chuck Nice
Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay, so more food for the. For the faculty lounge.
Chuck Nice
Okay, There you go. I mean, listen, that you clearly have thought about this. All right, let's keep going.
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I'm Nicholas Costella and I'm a proud supporter of startalk on Patreon. This is startalk with Neil DeGrasse Tyson.
Chuck Nice
This is Robert Ion who says. This is Robert from Peru. Comedy and science both rely on timing. A joke lands or fails in milliseconds while the universe unfolds over billions of years.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yes.
Chuck Nice
From your perspective as a comedian observing a cosmic scale universe, do you think humor is fundamentally a human survival tool for dealing with uncertainty? Or could it exist in any intelligent civilization no matter how alien thereby biology or sense of time might be?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I love that question. So do aliens have a sense of humor? That's what that comes down.
Chuck Nice
It comes down to. I'm gonna say, I don't know if they do or don't, but they think I'm funny. So, you know, how do you know
Neil deGrasse Tyson
the aliens think you're funny?
Chuck Nice
Listen, the last time I got a probe.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So all the youngs were laughing.
Chuck Nice
This guy cracks me up.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So let me, let me broaden that question. Comedic timing works on our timescale.
Chuck Nice
Yes, it does.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Right? So maybe this millisecond timing that we so cherish in a well delivered joke lasts a thousand years in an alien civilization that lasts for billions.
Chuck Nice
Wow. I do not want to perform at that club. I do not want to be on that stage.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah, if it's a slow, lower thing.
Chuck Nice
Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Oh, oh, oh. Did you see Zootopia?
Chuck Nice
I did not.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You didn't?
Chuck Nice
No.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Oh, there's a scene where they're in the dmv. Okay.
Chuck Nice
Oh, is that. I saw that on the commercial.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You have to see it. Okay.
Chuck Nice
The sloth.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
The sloth, yes, of course. The sloths are working the dmv.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay, that makes sense. And someone tells a joke, right? And the sloth just goes. Slowly, smiles and they laugh.
Chuck Nice
And then that turns into a laugh.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It takes like 30 seconds for them to respond.
Chuck Nice
That's very funny.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And that's sloth time.
Chuck Nice
I like it.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Sloth time. So that's an example of a time frame.
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That's slowed down the relativity of it. It works for them, so it could work for the alien.
Chuck Nice
All right, listen, I think it's a cute thought experiment that I'll probably never think about again.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
But wait, do other animals have jokes?
Chuck Nice
I'm gonna listen.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I think they have the chimps gather around and there's the court jester in the middle making them laugh.
Chuck Nice
Believe it or not, there is a. Maybe we should check with one of your friends. Here in the museum.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
One of my animal people.
Chuck Nice
One of your animal people. The primatologist.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah.
Chuck Nice
But they think that our laughter has evolved from when you see them cackle like that. When you see chimps cackle. Oh. Like it's something from our common ancestor that. So that sound that they make and our sound of laughing as us.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Oh, my gosh.
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I didn't want to know that.
Chuck Nice
Yeah. And there are so many. There are so many social, I will say, markers that are attached to laughter. So that would mean emotional and social markers that are attached to laughter.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So that would mean our common ancestors had some properties of both of those.
Chuck Nice
Exactly. And that's where we get laughter from.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Because something could be funny without you
Chuck Nice
laughing out loud all the time.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
All the time.
Chuck Nice
That's how comedians laugh. Let me show you comedians laughter right now.
That's funny, man.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why don't you guys laugh?
Chuck Nice
Because we're thinking about the joke you just told.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You're analyzing it, we're analyzing it.
Chuck Nice
And it's hard to laugh, to enjoy the joke. The music is a reaction, and you don't have a reaction when you're analyzing.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Laughter's an emotional reaction, not an intellectual analysis.
Chuck Nice
Right. And so when you hear something funny, you go, oh, that's funny, man. Which is why if something takes you by surprise, you laugh even harder because you laugh first and then you think about it. So. Yeah, but.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
All right. Yeah, so that's. That's fascinating.
Chuck Nice
Yeah, I love it.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And who are we to say that dolphins aren't laughing?
Chuck Nice
That's true. Flippers is laughing as if I was a dolphin.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Flip.
Chuck Nice
I would actually, if I was a dolphin, laugh at us too.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah, yeah. Why wouldn't you?
Chuck Nice
Yeah, exactly. Bipedal instead of swimming. You know, you guys are ridiculous.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And one other thing. Go ahead. I used to breed roaches.
Chuck Nice
All right. No, stop.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
No. Come back, Chuck. Chuck, come back.
Chuck Nice
Don't leave.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Don't leave, Chuck.
Chuck Nice
I ain't never heard nobody say in
Neil deGrasse Tyson
graduate school I laugh.
Chuck Nice
I used to breed roaches.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Let me explain. Oh, come. Oh, please, let me explain.
Chuck Nice
Please. You got some splaining to do. Okay, okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
When I was in graduate school, I lived in a roach infested apartment. And I got like Rambo and I said, the only way I can kill them is to understand them. So I captured a bunch and bred them and just watched them. Okay? To know your enemy. And none of us have ever watched roaches just hanging out.
Chuck Nice
But there's a reason for that. Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I'm watching roaches just hanging out.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
They're there cleaning their antenna all the time.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
They bring one in through their mouth and they get the next one in. They go 12 inches and they clean it again. They go up to another roach, they touch antennas and they keep going. And I'm thinking maybe they're telling each other jokes. Yeah. They're not running away from your shoe.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
They already have food, and so they're just hanging out because we don't tell jokes. If you're trying to survive, you know, if you're getting chased, that's the wrong time to tell a joke. You know, if someone's ready. If somebody's ready to step on you with their foot.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. But this was their free time. And I don't look at me like. So roaches had free time, and I was very impressed.
Chuck Nice
I'm gonna tell you who had too much free time.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah. Watching roaches with free time.
Chuck Nice
Wow.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That's what that was.
Chuck Nice
That's crazy.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I Chuck, I blathered for so long. Time for just a couple more.
Chuck Nice
All right, this one from Ricky from a roach motel who says, Dear Dr. Tyson, this is Andrew Martin says, hey, Dr. Tyson, Baron Mercurio. Andrew from Stafford in the middle of England.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
He says, what, what town is it?
Chuck Nice
Stafford.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Stafford.
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Sponsor/Announcer
Cool.
Chuck Nice
Indeed. He says in a recent episode, you said that if you were living in a simulation, we would eventually see limits to the extent of the universe as a result of the lack of programming. Could universal constants such as the speed of light and gravitational constants be examples of such limits? As a software engineer myself, I know I would set a few constraints if I was programming a universe.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
In other words, if I was God.
Chuck Nice
Yes, yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That's the programmer's way of saying if I was God, so many things pivot on the values of those constants that you can't just willy nilly give them other values and expect the universe as it has come about to remain stable.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
If you start mucking around with those constants, the universe goes haywire.
Chuck Nice
Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Now let me be precise. It's not that there's something special about those values, it's just that if you change them, the universe becomes something else.
Chuck Nice
Okay, okay, that makes sense.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's haywire compared to what we're using,
Chuck Nice
what we have now.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That could be a new normal for whoever evolves in that universe. So maybe giving some points to this question, maybe the programmer figured out that the universe needs constants.
Chuck Nice
Okay?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Right. It can't just not have constants and still function as a universe.
Chuck Nice
It doesn't work without the constants.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So maybe the existence of constants is the evidence that somebody programmed it.
Chuck Nice
Wow.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And if you go Spinoza on this, then it's just God.
Chuck Nice
It's God.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's God or Andrew.
Chuck Nice
It's a good enough name for a God as far as I'm concerned.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So yeah, I'm there on it. Just to tighten up his inquiry. In referencing what we did before, I was imagining that certain measured quantities would have limits to him where there's no reason why it should have a limit. And it just cuts off.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Because when you're programming in a computer, you have the limits of the space that you're creating.
Chuck Nice
Value parameters.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
There it is. This goes between here and here. I can't make it infinity because I can't program infinity into a computer.
Chuck Nice
Exactly.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I gotta give it that. And let me put it way out there, the humans will never get there. They'll never know.
Chuck Nice
They'll never evolve to that point. Right, exactly right. And then you come back and somebody's like right there at the edge of your.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Like the Truman Show.
Chuck Nice
Yeah, exactly. How you get to the edge of the universe, I'm not ready for that.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Right.
Chuck Nice
All right, so this is Ben Canty. He says cabinet maker here in Sussex in the UK and a new Patreon subscriber.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Cabinet maker?
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Jesus made cabinets. Oh, carpenter.
Chuck Nice
Yes, he did.
He says, do you think an artificial Einstein Rosen Bridge could be opened without the brute force of using exotic matter? I wonder if there could be a workaround. What if we use laser pulsed resonance harmonics to manipulate the quantum vacuum directly and gently? Could we create a massive Casimir like effect using the localized vacuum pressure on
both sides to hold the opening apart,
rather than relying on negative mass? Now, let me just tell you this. Let me tell you this, Ben. Don't you call into this show, right into this show showing off like that. You start off with, I'm a cabinet maker. And then you going to throw in the use of the Casimir effect like that. Like we don't know that. You more than a cat. What museum do you work for? I know you working for some planetarium somewhere. Yeah. Anyway, I mean, he's out there. I like, I love what he's doing.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I like where he's going.
Chuck Nice
I like what he's doing. He is out there, man.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Except the problem is the Casimir effect brings them together, right.
Chuck Nice
It doesn't push them apart.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It doesn't push them apart.
Chuck Nice
It actually attracts them.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
The Casimir effect, it's a quantum phenomenon where two plates, if it's evacuated inside. They're close enough that I think the explanation is they end up sharing the same wave pattern. And then that itself creates a force that brings them together. So I don't see how that could pry it apart.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And he's got some laser.
Chuck Nice
Dual laser, laser pulse, quantum laser, pulsed resonant harmonics.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah. So I'm. So just let me make it clear. We can make a wormhole, but without negative gravity stuff. It's unstable.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And so we pry it open. Okay. Step in. And then the thing collapses. You're gone.
Chuck Nice
Goodbye.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Who knows what happened to you.
Chuck Nice
Exactly.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
If a wormhole collapses on your ass. Oh, man. Okay, don't smile.
Chuck Nice
That would be. So. I mean, I don't want to find out, but it'd be cool to find out.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You don't want to be.
Chuck Nice
I don't want to be the guinea pig experiment, but yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
All right. So. I don't know. I don't think the Casimir effect gets you out of this.
Chuck Nice
Yeah, exactly.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And the laser pulsing on the vacuum energy. See, the vacuum energy is an energy source in the vacuum of space.
Chuck Nice
Exactly.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You can't think of the vacuum as
Chuck Nice
a thing like in a tube.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
In a tube. Right, right.
Chuck Nice
That's not how it works.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Exactly, exactly. You know, we think of vacuums as. A vacuum is a place where there's no air pressure.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That's all it is.
Chuck Nice
That's all it is.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's not a thing unto itself.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Where. Oh, here's some vacuum. Do stuff with it. No, that's not how that vacuum works out.
Chuck Nice
Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So we happen to have a word for where there is no air pressure and we call it a vacuum.
Chuck Nice
Vacuum.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Right. But if you. The vacuum. It said.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You know.
Chuck Nice
Yeah. And it's just like they're the nothing of space. Is something. You know what I mean?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Right, right.
Chuck Nice
So, yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So anyhow, I mean, listen, I like where he's going.
Chuck Nice
This dude is making some beautiful cabinets and smoking some great weed while he's doing it.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
His cabinet in the back might have a wormhole.
Chuck Nice
That would be so cool.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Ooh, yeah.
Chuck Nice
All right. This is Jay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I think that's one last one. I'll give a two word answer to it. Go. Oh, that's all we have time for. Go.
Chuck Nice
Jay Valiano. How close does the constellation Andromeda need to be to the Milky Way for us to be able to reach it? Are we then able to colonize in theory, or is it moving too fast towards us for us to be able to find a habitable planet? If this is not possible, can we use a wormhole to reach Andromeda and tell it to change course for his final kamikaze? This is Jay Valiano from Holland.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
He didn't know that it's not the constellation Andromeda that we have issues with.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Constellations are stars in our night sky. Way beyond those stars, there's another galaxy called 2 1/2 million light years away called the Andromeda Galaxy.
Chuck Nice
That's right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
In a day. Called the Andromeda Nebula. Before we knew it was a galaxy. In fact, it was the very first galaxy discovered.
Chuck Nice
Look at that.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
We found a star in this nebula. Wait a minute. That star. We know how bright that part's supposed to be. And it's way dimmer. This must be far outside the Milky Way. And Edwin Hubble discovered galaxies by figuring out what happened with the Andromeda Nebula. Woo. Okay, cool. Then we find out we're colliding towards each other.
Chuck Nice
Yes, but collision with galaxies doesn't mean collision like a car collision.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It'll look like a train wreck. But it's way more peaceful than that. Stars will just pass through each other. Space is mostly empty.
Chuck Nice
Empty.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
All right, so how close would it have to be to find an exoplanet? The point is, we have hundreds of billions of stars in our own galaxy.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why are you trying to look for some other galaxy? For a planet.
Chuck Nice
Yes, exactly.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Stick with your own kind.
Chuck Nice
Right. Your partner's sunbathing in the backyard and you got your binoculars looking across the street. You don't have to do that. That look at your partner. It's right in the background right here.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You got all the action you need.
Chuck Nice
All the action you need.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Right here. Right here. So in 10, I forgot the latest calcul. 12 billion years will collide.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
But it's not a. It's not a smash. Again. We'll just pass through.
Chuck Nice
It's a pass through.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It'll be fun to watch.
Chuck Nice
It looks like. Wait, because. Wait, you showed me the picture of. I forget the galaxies that actually were colliding. And they look like starlings when they.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah, yeah. The gravity is changing for every single star. Some get cast hither and yon other wind up in orbits around others. And if a star comes too close to another star that has planets, it could be a flyby looting of planets.
Chuck Nice
Oh, and the planet. And it's just like, come on over here.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That's it. The gravitational forces are, you know.
Chuck Nice
And then the other star is left. Left. It's like. That's a Pimp star. That's what they call that. That's the pimp star. The pimp star rolls by and takes all the planets from the other star.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Fly by, fly by. Looting the planet.
Chuck Nice
Nice.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So anyhow, that's all time we have.
Chuck Nice
All right. Gotta love the doggone, Gotta love the doggone. Cosmic Queries grabbed. There it is.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
All right, Chuck. Always good to have you.
Chuck Nice
Always a pleasure.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Neil DeGrasse Tyson in another Cosmic Queries edition. Edition. As always, keep looking up.
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Host: Neil deGrasse Tyson
Co-Host: Chuck Nice
This "Cosmic Queries: Grab Bag" edition brings together astrophysics, pop culture, and comedy as Neil deGrasse Tyson and Chuck Nice tackle a random assortment of listener questions. The conversation ranges from the experience of gravity and the potential for making wine on other planets, to telescope engineering, AI controversy, the possibility of alien humor, the existence of universal constants, the physics of wormholes, and the collision course of the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies. With Tyson’s trademark clarity and wit—and plenty of Chuck’s laughs—this episode offers a humorous and thoughtful exploration of the universe (and what might be in your cabinets).
(03:23 – 04:32)
(04:42 – 10:28)
(11:13 – 16:08)
(16:26 – 22:07)
(26:47 – 41:37)
(46:07 – 52:21)
(52:42 – 55:15)
(55:28 – 58:58)
(59:11 – 62:07)
The tone of the episode is playful, improvisational, and peppered with in-jokes, banter, and digressions that ultimately circle back to scientific insight. Neil and Chuck riff with friendly rivalry, often making fun of themselves, the French, and even the roaches Neil once “bred” for scientific curiosity.
As always: Keep looking up.