StarTalk Radio: Cosmic Queries – Living in a Simulation with Nick Bostrom

Host: Neil deGrasse Tyson
Guest: Nick Bostrom (Professor, University of Oxford; Future of Humanity Institute)
Co-Host: Chuck Nice
Release Date: December 19, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores one of contemporary philosophy and science’s most provocative questions: Are we living in a computer simulation? Neil deGrasse Tyson, with co-host Chuck Nice, engages world-renowned philosopher Nick Bostrom—the architect of the simulation argument—about the logic behind the hypothesis, its scientific implications, evidence, ties to consciousness, free will, AI, and cosmic civilization. The conversation is lively, accessible, and invites both scientific rigor and playful speculative thinking.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Simulation Argument Explained

[05:17 – 08:05]

• Bostrom: The simulation argument doesn’t prove we’re in a simulation, but posits that at least one of these is true:

  1. Almost all civilizations at our stage go extinct before reaching technological maturity.
  2. Technologically mature civilizations lose interest in running ancestor simulations.
  3. We are almost certainly living in a computer simulation.

• Logic: If many advanced civilizations exist and retain interest, computational power makes ancestor simulations abundant. Statistically, it’s more probable we are simulated beings rather than originals.

  "If almost all people with our experiences are simulated, we should think we are probably one of the simulated ones rather than one of the rare non simulated ones."
  — Nick Bostrom [07:50]

2. The Nature and Motives for Simulations

[11:15 – 14:10]

• Most simulations could focus on contemporary or even imagined societies, not just ancestors.

• Motivations for running simulations could include research, entertainment, or artistic/moral reasons.

  "I think we know rather little about the psychology and motivations of these hypothetical post human civilizations and why they would make simulations."
  — Nick Bostrom [14:01]

3. Empirical Evidence: Can We Test the Hypothesis?

[14:10 – 18:56]

• Bostrom discusses “empirical premises”:

  • Are ancestor simulations physically/computationally possible?
  • Is simulating consciousness feasible?
  • How much computation is needed for brain and environment simulation?

• Advances or surprises in neuroscience or physics could shift probability estimates.

• The argument is vulnerable: if a universal doomsday means all civilizations self-destruct, we are less likely to be in a simulation.

  "If we discovered...all advanced civilizations destroy themselves, that would be argument against the simulation hypothesis..."
  — Nick Bostrom [16:45]

4. Procedural Generation & the Limits of Simulation

[24:04 – 27:51]

• Tyson and Nice raise the challenge of simulating not only brains but all environmental detail.

• Bostrom explains, as in video games, simulations may only render what a simulated being observes ("procedural content generation"), reducing computational load.

  "All you would need to do is to simulate enough of the parts that we are observing when we're observing them, that to the simulated creatures, it looks real..."
  — Nick Bostrom [26:26]

5. Civilizational Power: The Kardashev Scale

[28:46 – 33:38]

• Tyson introduces the Kardashev Scale, which rates civilizations by energy mastery (planetary, stellar, galactic, universal).

• Advanced simulations would likely require at least galactic-scale (type III) power.

• Only one super-advanced civilization could dominate a galaxy; competition would create cosmic “resource wars.”

  "You can't have a universe filled with high Kardashev level civilization because they would implode rapidly..."
  — Neil deGrasse Tyson [33:03]

6. Consciousness, Substrate Independence, and AI

[34:03 – 38:09]

• Are simulated beings conscious? Bostrom presumes “substrate independence”—conscious experience depends on computation, not biological substrate.

• The boundary of consciousness (e.g., do rocks have it?) is fuzzy; it may diminish rather than cut off sharply.

• Imperfection or memory errors in cognitive processes do not define consciousness, but may affect its features.

  "My default assumption...is that in principle, you could implement consciousness not just on carbon based biological structures, but on any suitable computational structure..."
  — Nick Bostrom [34:30]

7. Free Will, God, and the Programmer

[44:38 – 48:26]

• If we’re in a simulation, do we have free will?

  • Bostrom: The simulation doesn’t eliminate free will (compatibilism).
  • Whether programmers are “God”: They might have godlike powers over the simulation, but are not infinite/omnipotent—more like very advanced beings with local control.

  "I think we would have as much free will in the simulation as we would without the simulation."
  — Nick Bostrom [45:14]

  "They would not be omnipotent. They...would be subject to the physical constraints operating at their level of reality."
  — Nick Bostrom [47:27]

8. Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) – Hardware vs. Software

[48:29 – 51:04]

• Progress in AI is part compute, part algorithm; both are essential.

• Training an AGI is extremely compute-intensive—an AI capable of passing as human needs not only to run but to be “raised.”

  "Even if we had enough compute to run AGI...we might not have enough compute to sort of create it."
  — Nick Bostrom [50:01]

9. The Age of the Universe, Simulation 'Start Points,' and Speed

[52:18 – 54:51]

• The simulation doesn’t have to start at the Big Bang; could be “booted up” with evidence of deep history.

• Simulators could speed up the simulation enormously, processing millennia in minutes.

  "You'd embed the simulation with evidence that that simulation scientist would then interpret as an old universe. Yeah, but it's all just fake."
  — Neil deGrasse Tyson [52:51]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Bias of Human Understanding:

  "If you look at all humans who have ever been alive...they were all very wrong about some big thing... It seems more likely that if people a thousand years from now look back at 2021, they will probably also see big...things we were fundamentally confused about."
  — Nick Bostrom [18:02]

• On Forgetfulness and Simulation Glitches:

  "Every time you and I forget something, the alien's hard drive messed up."
  — Neil deGrasse Tyson [37:31]

  "It's a read, write, error. An I. O. Error in a programmer's disk."
  — Neil deGrasse Tyson [37:51]

• On Entertainment as a Motive:

  "All of the troubles we have in the world is evidence that the programmers need entertainment."
  — Neil deGrasse Tyson [58:23]

Detailed Timestamps for Main Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Question | |-----------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | [05:17 – 08:05] | Bostrom’s simulation argument—a trilemma explanation | | [10:22 – 12:56] | Are ancestor simulations the only possible kind? | | [14:10 – 18:56] | Empirical factors: can the simulation hypothesis be tested or disproved? | | [24:04 – 27:51] | Procedural content generation—why the sim need not render all details | | [28:46 – 33:38] | Kardashev scale and cosmic energy exploitation | | [34:03 – 38:09] | Consciousness, substrate independence, and panpsychism | | [44:38 – 48:26] | Free will, God, and whether programmers = deities | | [48:29 – 51:04] | AI, compute, training, and the limits of hardware | | [52:18 – 54:51] | Why simulate billions of years? Simulations can be “spun up” quickly | | [55:58 – 57:02] | Can a universe fully simulate itself? Logical paradoxes in simulation detail | | [58:23] | “Glitches” and simulated catastrophes as possible hints of programmers’ games |

Conclusion

Nick Bostrom’s simulation argument remains one of modern philosophy’s greatest thought experiments, and this episode offers both an accessible and profound tour of its logic, assumptions, and cosmic implications. Whether the audience is convinced or not, they’ll walk away appreciating the delicate balance between physics, computation, and philosophy—and maybe questioning the reality around them just a little bit more.

Recommended further reading:

• Bostrom’s original paper: "Are You Living in a Computer Simulation?"
• Bostrom’s book: "Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies"

Closing Thought:
"Keep looking up." — Neil deGrasse Tyson