Cosmic Queries – The Deep

Summary

StarTalk Radio – "Cosmic Queries: The Deep"

Host: Neil deGrasse Tyson
Co-host: Chuck Nice
Date: August 29, 2025

---

Overview

On this "Cosmic Queries" episode of StarTalk, Neil deGrasse Tyson and comic co-host Chuck Nice tackle fans’ deepest scientific and philosophical questions about the universe and our place in it. The conversation dives into the frontiers of human understanding, our limitations, and the search for meaning, while blending scientific rigor with their signature humor and wit. Listeners are treated to mind-bending thought experiments, musings on intelligence and the cosmos, and honest reflection on humanity's brightest potentials and darkest impulses.

---

Key Topics & Insights

I. What Boggles the Mind: Endless Time or Space?

[03:27–11:17]

• Listener Question: What boggles your mind more: endless time or endless space?
• Neil’s Response: Both ideas are baffling, but most mind-boggling is whether the human brain can ever fully comprehend itself.
  • “Can the human brain figure out the human mind, if it is the brain that creates the mind?” – Neil deGrasse Tyson [04:14]
• Reference to Carl Sagan:
  • “Humans are the universe’s way to understand itself.” [04:47]
  • Neil questions this human-centric view of intelligence.
• Comparative Intelligence: Neil compares the 1% DNA difference between humans and chimps, raising the idea that a small biological distinction could yield a vast difference in cognitive ability.
  • “Maybe the smartest chimps are to us as our toddlers are to us. So what if there’s a species 1% beyond us in intelligence?” – Neil deGrasse Tyson [08:18]
• Limits of Human Cognition:
  • Neil wonders if certain cosmic truths might be forever inaccessible to our neural capabilities:
    • “The universe may have complexities out of reach of the neurosynapses of the human brain.” [09:34]

Notable Quote:

"We think therefore you are." — Chuck Nice, riffing on Descartes [05:34]

Memorable Exchange:

• Humorous speculation that reality may be a simulation run by an alien kid:
  • "We are all a simulation in an alien kid's basement." – Neil deGrasse Tyson [10:33]
  • "Where the Minecraft of some other Minecraft." – Chuck Nice [10:40]

---

II. Science vs. the Limits of Understanding

[12:51–18:57]

• Listener Question: If the universe is under no obligation to make sense to us, why do science at all?
• Neil’s View: Science is a tool for probing beyond the limits of our natural senses; science enables us to discover truths that our basic biology cannot grasp.
  • “Your senses give you a restricted understanding of what’s actually going on in the universe.” [16:39]
  • The “God works in mysterious ways” view ends inquiry, while science opens it.
• Five Senses Limitation:
  • Difficulty for humans in comprehending concepts like 5-dimensional cubes, or time scales of billions of years.
• Advances of Scientific Tools:
  • Instruments can expand our perception far beyond our basic capabilities.

Notable Quote:

“The methods and tools of science give you a way to understand what is true without it being hinged on whether your senses think it’s true.” – Neil deGrasse Tyson [18:22]

---

III. Human Survival and the "Monkey Brain"

[21:32–29:10]

• Listener Question: How long do you think the human race will survive?
• Neil: Species longevity for mammals averages about 2 million years; humans have been around for a few hundred thousand.
• Self-Destructive Intelligence:
  • “This presumes the species is not smart enough to kill itself.” [22:08]
  • Humans, unlike other animals, have invented multiple methods of self-destruction.
• Cultural Evolution and Violence:
  • Referencing Steven Pinker’s work, Neil charts humanity’s decrease in percentage of deaths due to violence over time.
  • Despite social media turbulence and tribalism, the arc may be toward less violence.
• Social Division and Hope:
  • Skepticism about human nature overcoming arbitrary prejudice and self-destruction.

Notable Quote:

“If white people divide themselves up…two Christian communities killing each other… and they’re both white and Christian, it’s over for everybody else.” – Neil deGrasse Tyson [28:53]

---

IV. The Meaning of Life, According to Neil deGrasse Tyson

[30:49–35:17]

• Listener Question: Based on your experiences, what do you think is the meaning of our human existence?
• Neil’s Answer: Meaning isn’t something to be found; it’s something to be forged.
  • “You have the power to manufacture meaning. Create it within yourself.” [32:33]
  • Neil draws meaning from lessening the suffering of others and learning something new every day.
  • “If after your day is over, the world is worse off, you have subtracted.” [33:03]
  • Emphasis on being a perpetual student and a force for good, rejecting passive search for external meaning.

Notable Quote:

“Lessen the sufferings of others in some way. I also try to learn something every day.” – Neil deGrasse Tyson [33:02]

---

V. The Vacuum of Space and Nothingness

[36:38–43:03]

• Listener Question: How exactly is space a vacuum?
• Neil’s Explanation: A vacuum is not the total absence of matter, but a region with very few particles.
  • It is hard to create a perfect vacuum due to gases embedded in surfaces.
  • Contrary to the proverb, “Nature abhors a vacuum,” in reality, “most of the universe is a vacuum.” [38:35]
  • Intergalactic space contains only a tiny number of particles per cubic meter—practically approaching “nothing nothing.”
• Levels of Vacuum:
  • Air: 10 septillion atoms/m³
  • Best lab vacuums: 10 billion atoms/m³
  • Interstellar: ~500,000 atoms/m³
  • Intergalactic: a few atoms per 10 m³

Notable Quote:

“If you feel obliged to call intergalactic space nothing, then you must invent a word to refer to the region outside of the universe—in this location…there can be no nothing.” – Neil deGrasse Tyson [40:24]

---

VI. The Deep-Lightning Round (Rapid Q&A)

[43:03–51:32]

• Space Exploration Priorities: Neil advocates a modular, “do it all” approach—search for life, threats, and exploration together, letting creativity flourish.
  • “You don’t build a road just from New York to LA…you build roads everywhere.” [44:09]
• Impact of the Moon on Astronomy: Without the moon (which brightens the sky on many nights), astronomy would be more advanced—the “star blocker” reduces observing time for faint objects.
  • “The Moon wreaks havoc on our ability to see the rest of the universe.” [46:07]
• Shape of Space: In the presence of mass or energy, space curves; the observable universe is a sphere centered on any observer.
• Looking Far = Looking Back: Observing distant objects means seeing earlier epochs in the universe’s history, not something “enveloping” us.
  • “You are looking at a younger and younger and younger universe—that’s the whole point of cosmology.” [48:48]
• Higher Dimensions and Dark Matter: Speculation that dark matter/gravity effects could be explained by higher-dimensional matter is plausible; our 3D perceptions might blind us to 4D realities.
  • “All the mysteries in our three dimensions plus time are completely solved by looking at this stuff from a higher [dimension].” [50:55]

Memorable Timing:

• [51:20] Neil and Chuck echo their enthusiasm for cosmic queries, promising more “deep” editions in the future.

---

Notable Quotes

• "We think therefore you are." – Chuck Nice [05:34]
• "The universe may have complexities out of reach of the neurosynapses of the human brain." – Neil deGrasse Tyson [09:34]
• "Your senses give you a restricted understanding of what's actually going on in the universe." – Neil deGrasse Tyson [16:39]
• "We are all a simulation in an alien kid's basement." – Neil deGrasse Tyson [10:33]
• "You have the power to manufacture meaning. Create it within yourself." – Neil deGrasse Tyson [32:33]

---

Tone and Style

The conversation is equal parts profound, playful, and philosophical, with Chuck's comedic timing interplaying with Neil’s scientific clarity. StarTalk maintains its approachable, intellectually curious vibe—never shying from big questions, but always bringing them back to human experience and humility in the face of the cosmos.

---

Useful Timestamps

• 03:27: Limitations of human intelligence
• 05:34: “We think therefore you are.”
• 09:34: The universe may be beyond our comprehension
• 16:39: Senses as limiting factors in understanding reality
• 22:08: Human capacity for self-destruction
• 33:02: Creating meaning through altruism and learning
• 38:35: The vacuum of space explained
• 44:09: Priorities in space exploration
• 46:07: The moon as a blocker for astronomy
• 50:55: Higher dimensions as possible solution to cosmic mysteries

---

This episode is a feast for anyone fascinated by the limits (and possibilities) of knowledge, existence, and curiosity, with a dose of cosmic humility and plenty of laughs.

Transcript

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

How do you make an Airbnb a vrbo? Picture a vacation rental with a host. The host is dragging your family on a tour of the kitchen, the bathroom, the upstairs bathroom, the downstairs bedroom, and the TV room, which, surprise, is where you can watch tv. Now imagine there's no host giving you a tour because there's never any hosts at all, ever. Voila. You've got yourself a vrbo. Want a vacation that's completely and totally host free? Make it a vrbox.

[Chuck Nice]

You ever walked around a neighborhood and wish you could see inside somewhere that was available for rent? Well, let me just give you a tip. Don't climb up on the ledge and look in the window. People will call the cops. Well, maybe you've walked past a place for rent and you wished you could peek inside. Maybe even explore the layout. Envision the natural light streaming through the windows. Or plan where your vinyl record collection would go. Well, at apartments.com you can. With tools like their 3D virtual tours, you can see the exact unit you could be living in at all from the comfort of your couch. And if you end up wanting to see it in person, you can book a tour online without having to speak to a leasing rep. Really envision yourself in your new home with apartments.com the place to find a place.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Hey, Start Talkians. Neal here. You're about to listen to an episode specially drawn from our archives to serve your cosmic curiosities. Check it out. Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now. Today, it's Cosmic Queries. That's one of our favorite forms of this show. Everybody love it.

[Chuck Nice]

Everybody loves it. Everybody love it. Everybody loves it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Everybody love it. And we are, in fact, educated people.

[Chuck Nice]

My mom is spinning in her grave right now, so.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

But this is a cosmic aquarius of a topic we've never solicited before.

[Chuck Nice]

No, we have not.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. What?

[Chuck Nice]

And the topic is the deep, deep space, Deep thoughts, deep questions.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Chuck, you got to give it in your deepest voice.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, here we go.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And by the way, we did this once.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes, we do.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And I think. I think I beat you by a half a tone or something. Yeah, just barely. Let me hear.

[Chuck Nice]

Here we go. Deep thoughts.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Deep thoughts.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, you got me already. See, I gotta drink scotch the night.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Before and smoke a cigar.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, I gotta smoke a cigar and smoke.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Smoke and alcohol. Just fix that right up.

[Chuck Nice]

But then it becomes like a deep voice and like, somewhat Harvey Fierstein raspy. Yeah, deep thoughts thought. Oh, my God.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

If you Put on the accent. Deep.

[Chuck Nice]

Thought. Thought.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Scotch doesn't give you the Harvey Fierstein accent.

[Chuck Nice]

That'd be pretty cool if it did a couple scotches.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Deep. Deep.

[Chuck Nice]

All right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Someone call me an Uber.

[Chuck Nice]

I've had too much to drink. Deep.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right, let's get deep. I like deep thoughts because usually there isn't a right answer. So you just get to sort of play with it and see where it takes you.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. All right, so this is deep questions only.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right, let's do it. So, listening from our fan base.

[Chuck Nice]

It's from our fan base. And here's the question from Jonathan Wax. And Jonathan says, or ask what boggles your mind more than the thought of endless time or the thought of endless space? So it's impossible to truly contemplate endless time because you would spend the rest of your existence doing so.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Well, here's two things boggle me, okay. There's a beautiful frontier of research going on in the field of neuroscience.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, interesting.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So I have two questions related to that that boggle my mind.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay. I'm going to write these down.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Can the human brain figure out the human mind?

[Chuck Nice]

It's a great question.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

If it is the human brain that.

[Chuck Nice]

Actually creates the human mind.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Creates the human mind.

[Chuck Nice]

That's a good question.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's what I'm saying.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Or do you need something outside of that?

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That is greater, smarter, different, so that it can come in and then understand that as its own test. Test kitchen.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Now, Sagan has famously said.

[Chuck Nice]

Go ahead.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That humans are the universe's way to understand itself.

[Chuck Nice]

The universe is understanding itself through human beings, through humans.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Correct. Without humans, there'd be no thoughts to do that. But however, that elevates us higher than I'm prepared to do. So.

[Chuck Nice]

You think so? Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Because who says we are the measure of what is intelligent in this universe?

[Chuck Nice]

Well, we do. Exactly.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Exactly.

[Chuck Nice]

So that statement, that Carl Sagan statement is kind of like a cosmological Descartes. That's like the universe, the Descartes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, I think therefore I am kind of thing. Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

But it's like, we think therefore you are.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, yeah. Oh, Chuck, Every once in a while, I'll do something.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

We think therefore you are.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Rather than I think therefore I am.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Ooh, Chuck, that was beautiful.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, thanks.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

We should end the show right now because we ain't surpassing that thought. Thank you for watching. Start talks.

[Chuck Nice]

Exactly.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's downhill from. So I wonder whether there is a level of intelligence out there where we are today. What chimpanzees are to us.

[Chuck Nice]

That's interesting.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

For example.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, that's terrible.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wait, wait, wait.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, I hope not.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Well, you can go to a chimpanzee and say. Yeah, and say Tomorrow morning at 8:30, let's go to Starbucks and have a cup of coffee. Nothing in that sentence makes any sense to a chimpanzee, right? Or ever will.

[Chuck Nice]

I'm pretty sure there's a chimp chimp Starbucks. I'm just pretty sure there is a chimp Starbucks somewhere. I'm just saying.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You think Starbucks figured out how to.

[Chuck Nice]

Make a chimp coffee? Starbucks has got to be selling chimps coffee somehow some way.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Is that why they're so hyper at the zoo?

[Chuck Nice]

Exactly. You know what I mean? You go to get your coffee, it's just like Curious George.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Curious George. Decaf latte from Curious.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, sorry.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right, but go ahead. Wait, wait.

[Chuck Nice]

So, so, so.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Here's why I say that. And I've said this many times. I've written it. And I would tell you to your face now.

[Chuck Nice]

All right, good.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So there's about 1% difference in DNA between humans and chimps.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right. Yet we like to think of ourselves as highly superior. Highly superior intellectually to the chimp.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Maybe the difference in our brain power is as small as that 1% indicates. So that pulling termites out of a mound with a stick that was carefully chosen from a branch, from a bush maybe. That is not very far from space travel. The Hubble telescope, right? No, no, wait. Think about it. No, no. I know this sounds crazy.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh my God.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, no. Think about it. Maybe. Maybe.

[Chuck Nice]

Look at those cute little humans in their telescopes. That's what I'm putting up there. Look at that. Is that a small. They settled it. They just. Lots of stuff.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so now watch the smartest chimp that are studied in labs that are brought forward in the chimp societies, right? You bring them forward and what do they do? They'll stack boxes to reach a banana. They might put up an umbrella. They'll do some things. Okay. Have rudimentary sign Lang. Our toddlers can do that.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

But those are the smartest chimps.

[Chuck Nice]

But our toddlers do that same thing with dogs. Dogs have about.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I know. I could do this example for dogs as well. But chimps is simpler because they're closer to us. Even close.

[Chuck Nice]

Gotcha, gotcha. See what you're doing?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You see where I'm going? Okay, so watch. If the smartest chimp equals our toddler and there's only 1% difference in DNA between us.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Let's go 1% beyond us.

[Chuck Nice]

Ooh, that's scary.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's what I'm saying. If we go 1% beyond us in that same vector of intelligence.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. They're traveling at the speed of light. Then they've figured out light travel.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Then the smartest human, they'll roll forward, they'll take Stephen Hawking and they'll say, this human is slightly smarter than the rest because he can do astrophysics calculations in his head, like little Timmy over here who just came home from alien preschool.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The toddler.

[Chuck Nice]

The toddler. Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And he said, oh, you just composed a sonnet. Isn't that cute? Let's put it up on the refrigerator. Oh, you just derived the principles of calculus. Oh, isn't that cute?

[Chuck Nice]

That's funny.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So if. So, if the smartest human does what their toddlers can do, their average people will have thoughts, they will have sentences that will rise above and beyond our most brilliant capacity to understand. And I stay awake at night wondering whether the universe has complexities in it that are out of reach of the neurosynapses of the human brain.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's my answer.

[Chuck Nice]

So there's information out there that we just cannot conceive or perceive.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

We don't even know how to access.

[Chuck Nice]

How to access that about it. To get an answer.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Correct.

[Chuck Nice]

We don't know the answer. We don't know the question. To get an answer.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

To get an answer.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And not that we don't know it because we haven't been told it yet.

[Chuck Nice]

No, we just can't conceive it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Can't conceive it. You go to a chimp and say. Go to a chimp and say, what would it be?

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, something as simple as navigating the stars to get someplace. Just can't do that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Stars. What, navigate what? What spaceship? What rocket fuel? What? None of that. None of it. You can't even have that conversation.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So that's my point.

[Chuck Nice]

Now I'm thinking that this whole thing might be some type of, like, science experiment by some alien kid. Now. Yes, that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Why not?

[Chuck Nice]

Why not?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

We are all a simulation in an alien kid's basement who hasn't moved out of the house yet.

[Chuck Nice]

That's so funny.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Where?

[Chuck Nice]

The Minecraft of some other Minecraft.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow. Wow, that. Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And then when things get too peaceful and stable, they stir the pot.

[Chuck Nice]

Stir the pot.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

They throw in a politician, a war, a crazy person throwing thing, and then. Oh, now it's entertaining. So we're just Entertainment for this is.

[Chuck Nice]

The best video game. Okay. Wow. Wow. That's a. Well, listen, that's a great answer to what boggles your mind. That's a really.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It doesn't much boggle my mind. It upsets my mind.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. I was about to say it's very upsetting.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Are we not.

[Chuck Nice]

I'm mad. I don't even know why.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Here's my one out.

[Chuck Nice]

Go ahead.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Because for humans, our knowledge is cumulative.

[Chuck Nice]

So true.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You don't have to invent calculus. Somebody else did that.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You just have to use it.

[Chuck Nice]

You use it. Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Learn it and use it.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So I have the feeling that we are every next generation that has sort of brilliant people contributing to our understanding of the universe. They're adding a rung to a ladder.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Then we all sort of climb a bed, and then just get that next run and we'll climb that and then the next run.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, with that in mind, I think that the next evolutionary stuff for human beings is that we will create an intelligence greater than our own. That's really the deal.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

This scares the hell out of everyone.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Because that intelligence will say, we don't need you.

[Chuck Nice]

You know what? And we'd have to say, you're right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's what happened in the Matrix.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You are a virus on this earth, Mr. Anderson.

[Chuck Nice]

I smell you, Mr. Anderson.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, he was smelling Morpheus.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, that's right. That's right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Get your Matrix. If you could go there in front of me.

[Chuck Nice]

I'm in front of the wrong.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's my favorite movie.

[Chuck Nice]

That's true.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Don't even.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes, he was talking to Morpheus when he was tied up in the chair. Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's the smell.

[Chuck Nice]

You know what? You got to have some really serious BO for a computer to tell you you stink. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. All right, let's.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Let's get through the electronics.

[Chuck Nice]

So this is Alex Greg, 56, from Instagram. And Alex Greg says this. If the universe needs not make any sense to us, then what is the point of doing science? Is science not, in fact, the discipline of trying to grasp what's around us? By the way, is this statement not equal to the old one, which is, God has his reason to make it that way, so just don't ask.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Of course, I never heard that expression. But the shorter version of that is God works in mysterious ways.

[Chuck Nice]

That is so true.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. When you can't explain it.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, God, the Lord works in mysterious ways.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right. And if you can't explain it using God, than You do, right? Oh, God has blessed you. You bless God, you know, Then there's a tsunami, takes out a quarter million people.

[Chuck Nice]

God hates you.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No one says that.

[Chuck Nice]

No one says that. Why don't we say that? We should say that. You know, I want to start saying, you know what? I think God hates you.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Well, the most hateful God in our culture is the one represented on insurance forms.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, that's so true.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Acts of God.

[Chuck Nice]

Acts of God, right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's only very bad things. No one says flowers bloomed in your garden. An act of God, right? No, it's. Tsunami took out your house.

[Chuck Nice]

That's exactly.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Homeless on the street. Act of God.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow, look at that. This moment of God hates you. Bought to you by Farmers Insurance.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

State. Farmers State Farm.

[Chuck Nice]

Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

What's that one? Nationwide is not on your side.

[Chuck Nice]

Nationwide is on your side. God is not. All right, okay, that's enough. So get some hate mail now. You hate God, Chuck? Is that it? Okay, sorry. So the. So is science. In fact, the discipline of trying to grasp what is around us.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so what, he started. He started quoting me where I said, I opened my book, the Astrophysics for people in a Hurry.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

With the quote, the universe is under no obligation to make sense to you.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. What that means is your five traditional senses, which rose up out of the Serengeti, which help us not get eaten by lions. Right? They're very good at that. They're not as good at contemplating infinity. They're not good contemplating timescales much longer than your life expectancy.

[Chuck Nice]

So true.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You don't. You can't intuit billions of years. You can't intuit infinitesimals. There are things that are hard for us, right? There are things that may even be impossible for us. Can you picture a five dimensional cube?

[Chuck Nice]

No, I cannot.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, you cannot. Can you picture a four dimensional cube?

[Chuck Nice]

Probably not.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, no.

[Chuck Nice]

Actually, the. The.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The tesseract is close. Yeah, that's like a. I can.

[Chuck Nice]

I can actually picture that because I've seen a drawing.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I have a tesseract.

[Chuck Nice]

Do you really get out? Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, should I?

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, all right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Well, maybe I'll bring it in.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Another episode.

[Chuck Nice]

Another episode.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It'll be the episode of Higher dimensions.

[Chuck Nice]

Sweet.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Do a whole thing on just higher dimensions.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, I like that. We did that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

We did that already. How come I don't remember? Man, I'm getting old. Did I have my tesseract in my hand?

[Chuck Nice]

Well, now we gotta do it again. Update it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Which I took this from Thanos. So what it means is if you are going to deduce what is or is not true in the universe, right, Your senses are not the most reliable measure of whether it's true.

[Chuck Nice]

So true.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Because the senses give you a restricted understanding of what's actually going on in the universe. Your eyes, you would never trade them for anything. Yet they only expose your. Your mind to a very tiny narrow strip of all the electromagnetic energy that's out there. You can't see. Infrared, you can feel it as heat, but you can't see it.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Ultraviolet, you can't see that either. You can feel that in a delayed sense by getting sunburn and skin cancer. It's not telling you in that instant. It's a time delay, but keep going out. There's infrared, ultraviolet, X ray, gamma rays. Can't see any of that. But the universe is talking to you in that. So are you going to say, my senses give me everything that there is in the universe and therefore it makes sense? No. As long as we detect things that fall outside of our senses, it's a challenge for you to declare that what we say do and discover makes sense. The very statement makes sense means your senses can contemplate it, that your senses have experience. If I let go of a ball and it floats up, you'll say, that doesn't make sense. Because your senses always told you if you let go of a ball, it drops. Right. And in fact, the very statement let it go. Not the frozen, not the frozen version, but just let it go means drop it. They mean the same thing. But that can only be true on Earth with a force of gravity pointing down. In space, in free orbit, you let go. It just floats there.

[Chuck Nice]

Stays right there, Stays right there. So, like, my problems stay right there. Yeah. I must be in space because all my problems, somebody says, drop it. And I say, I did that. They're right, still here.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And you let it go, and it's still there.

[Chuck Nice]

Exactly.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So my point is, the methods and tools of science give you a way to understand what is true without it being hinged on whether your senses think it's true.

[Chuck Nice]

Nice.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So the message, until the science are access to truth, where you can still probe the universe, whereas God works in mysterious ways, kind of ends that conversation. Whereas I say I developed a new instrument that can see in ways humans cannot. Oh, my gosh. That opens entire worlds of investigation, entire branches of science.

[Chuck Nice]

All right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The best business to business marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. Think of the guy on the third floor. Of a ten story apartment block who is pestered with ads for solar panels. He doesn't need them, doesn't want them, and it's a complete waste. LinkedIn though, has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals. And that's where it stands apart from other ad buyers. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, industry, company role, seniority, skills, company revenue, all the professionals you need to reach in one place. Stop wasting budget on the wrong audience and start targeting the right professionals only on LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn will even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. So you can try it yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.com startalk that's LinkedIn.com startalk terms and and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. For years everyone thought Verizon had the best network because they did. But now the best mobile network in the US is T Mobile. T Mobile's network has the most advanced 5G with more towers and their signal reaches further than ever. So you can text an insta talk and say, you won't believe where I am. T Mobile has the best mobile Network in the US based on analysis by Ookla of speed test intelligence data 1H2025C.T.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Mobile.com Network did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending. With real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast.

[Chuck Nice]

I'm Alikon Hemraj and I support StarTalk on Patreon.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

This is StarTalk with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Okay, here we go.

[Chuck Nice]

So. So this is from probably asleep.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's the name of the person.

[Chuck Nice]

The name of the person.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. I like your mama. Didn't like you.

[Chuck Nice]

How long do you think the human race will actually survive? Wow. I mean, there's precedent for that. Right?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Well, so you can look at what is the average life expectancy of mammals. Mammal species.

[Chuck Nice]

Exactly.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And last I checked it was around 2 million years, something like that. And so we've been around long way to go. We have a long way to go. We've been around, you know, a couple hundred thousand years in our, in our current anatomical form. CRO Magnon form.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And so that means we have a Long way to go. But this presumes that the species is not smart enough to kill itself.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, then it's over. It was nice knowing you guys.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. We have invented multiple ways to kill ourselves.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And I don't think the elephants did or, you know, nobody else did this, Right? The mice? No, they're not killing themselves.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Humans. Yes.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. Maybe cockroaches invented human beings.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Why?

[Chuck Nice]

Because when everything's gone, they're going to be the only ones left and it's.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Like, no, no, then they don't have to invent us in the first place. What kind of reasoning are you using here?

[Chuck Nice]

They want everything else gone.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, they need us to build the structures that they then move into.

[Chuck Nice]

Right. They move in. Yeah, I don't mind it. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Yeah, we are. Yeah. But so I think what he's really asking is, in your estimation, from your sage opinion, I give us. How long do you think we will last?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I give us 20 years.

[Chuck Nice]

That's funny.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, I think we're good. This is why many people want to become a two planet species. Terraform Mars, send some humans there. So if something bad happens on Earth, you still have humans somewhere else.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow, that is not encouraging at all.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Not for half the people who aren't on the planet. So if an asteroid comes, if a killer virus, if AI gets out of hand.

[Chuck Nice]

So I understand seeding something with a remnant for survival of the species, that's extraneous. I mean, that's something that's outside of our own destruction. Even though we could stop an asteroid from hitting us if we put.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

We know how. Ain't nobody doing it.

[Chuck Nice]

That's what I'm saying. If we put the resources into it, we could stop. Stop even that from happening.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So what's the example you're giving?

[Chuck Nice]

So what do you mean? To stop the asteroid?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, no.

[Chuck Nice]

So what I'm saying is, will we ever get to a place where, as the Buddhist monks call it, the so called monkey brain that causes us to do so much destructive work to each other and to the planet, Will we ever get to a place where we overcome that? Or we're able to train those who come behind us to overcome that? Now, it does happen in some people.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I get it first. I've never heard a Buddhist monk say the phrase monkey brain.

[Chuck Nice]

Really?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I never heard that. Is this a thing? Okay, fine.

[Chuck Nice]

That is a thing.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I go to 10 more monasteries. You feeling monkey brain today?

[Chuck Nice]

All right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Delicious. I've heard of reptilian brain, but not monkey brain.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. So, so the reptilian brain is referenced. Something primal, right. That goes on within you. So if we follow the reasoning by Steven Pinker in his book the Better Angels of Our Nature, he studied the likelihood of you dying before maturity or dying before adulthood, or just dying from at the hands of another human. From early days of tribal warfare to modern days of state sanctioned global warfare. And what he found is that the likelihood of you dying in that way has been dropping ever since. Okay, so tribal warfare, you could, you would kill maybe a third or half of the other tribe or the entire tribe, and then you win and you get their land. That doesn't happen today.

[Chuck Nice]

True.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The state surrenders before that happened. True. Saving the lives of the rest of the population. If you look at, I did this just recently. If you look at what countries had the greatest percent of their population die in the Second World War? Was it Belarus? One of them is very high. It's like a third. All right, I forgot the exact numbers, but they're high, but they're not a half. And you keep going down and you get to even combat. Germany, even ones that were heavily bombed. Germany, Japan, a fraction of the total population. That is not how it used to end in tribal warfare. So now consider that even so, during the Second World War, between 1939 and 1945, 1,000 humans were killed by other humans per hour for every hour from 1939 to 1945. Wow. Is that going on today? No, no, no.

[Chuck Nice]

We're really slipping.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, no, stop.

[Chuck Nice]

So we really got to pick up.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Our game just so we can bet.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So the point is, often that era is called the greatest generation, right? Well, because they fought, you know, evil forces and, you know, this sort of thing. Although my father fought in a segregated army, so he's not thinking that was the greatest generation. He has other outlook, other perspectives on that period.

[Chuck Nice]

It's the second greatest generation.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

My point is, is the greatest generation the one where the fewest fraction of everyone dies out of hate? We might have a lot of hate, but if the number of people who die from it is lower than ever before?

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Then this arc that you were hinting at, that maybe a next generation learns from the previous one, maybe that's going to work. Europe, with all of their turbulence and turmoil, they actually haven't been at war with each other for 70 years.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Is there another 70 year period in the history of Europe where nobody was fighting anybody? I don't think so.

[Chuck Nice]

Not if Twitter has anything to do with that moment.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

What you're saying Is imagine if Twitter existed back then. Back then.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, my God. Let me tell you something. The war wouldn't have stopped until everybody was dead. It would have taken like, people would have said, I surrender. A tweet would have gone out and be like, I take it back. Let's keep fighting. Let's keep fighting. I don't care.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I hate you more.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So maybe we are getting kindlier, kinder and gentler. Time still needs to bear that out on a level that would please everyone. But I still worry that this primal brain will always segregate us all by some arbitrary factor and thereby justify doing harm to other groups.

[Chuck Nice]

Interesting. That's. I think you're right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Who was the comedian? Was it Franklin Ajay? One of these guys from the 70s.

[Chuck Nice]

Back in the day.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

In the day, in the day, he was talking about who hates who in the world, right?

[Chuck Nice]

And.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

He says reading the papers and what? In Northern Ireland, the Protestants and the Catholics are fighting each other and they're both white. He said, you know, I don't have a chance cause I'm black.

[Chuck Nice]

That's funny. That's true.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right? If white people divide themselves up in that way. Two Christian communities killing each other, right?

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And they're both white and they're both Christian and the both.

[Chuck Nice]

It's over for you, brother.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's over for everybody else. If people can kill each other for those reasons, it's almost no hope in this world. So, yeah, I don't know.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. So I'm sorry, I don't have a good answer.

[Chuck Nice]

That was a pretty good answer. The answer is we're not gonna make it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I'd like to think we go thousands of years into the future and possibly outlive the sun.

[Chuck Nice]

All right, that'd be great.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

By star hopping to other planetary systems.

[Chuck Nice]

You know, I'm just gonna say that's the way it's gonna end because I won't be here. So that's great.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Maybe it has been said that the first person who will never die is now alive. What?

[Chuck Nice]

That's a.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Well, no, this is how you do it.

[Chuck Nice]

I know what you're saying.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So they get some new thing that makes you live an extra 50 years. So now you live to 150 instead of 100. And then somewhere in there, there's another thing we get. Now you live another 200 years. So the 150 goes to 350 now you can live 500 years. Now you go to a thousand. You can live 5,000 years now. So as we progress in our understanding of what ages you. If we can reverse that or prevent it from ever advancing the person. There's someone alive today who will benefit from that.

[Chuck Nice]

That's pretty cool. I like it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So if that happens, you better find another planet.

[Chuck Nice]

This is true. Yeah. That's the premise of a show called Altered Carbon, where people actually take their consciousness and put it into what they call a sleeve, which is the body.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I think I voiceovered the opening sequence to that show.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, my God. I think we had that conversation once where you told me that. Because I told you I was a.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I don't remember if it was with the pilot or the other shows, but I did. I. I lent my voice to the cause.

[Chuck Nice]

Nice. Wow. All right, well, let's go to Joey 24. Joey Jr. 24. He says this personal question, Based on all your experiences and knowledge thus far.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Personal for me or for you?

[Chuck Nice]

Personal for you.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

Nobody asking me anything. He says, based on all of your experiences and knowledge thus far, what do you think the meaning of our human existence is? He just asked you, what is the meaning of life according to Neil degrasse Tyson?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so I. In my next book.

[Chuck Nice]

Uh.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, yeah. I don't. You never hear me. Plug my stuff.

[Chuck Nice]

I was gonna say, here's the meaning of life right now.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Plug your book when you get a chance. The next book is called Letters from an Astrophysicist.

[Chuck Nice]

You know what? Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Correspondence I've had with people who've had similar angst.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

About their existence.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, that's not just the book. It's not about that. No.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, it's about all different kinds of letters.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All kinds of letters. But a very recurring theme is that people want to know the meaning of life and their significance of their life in this world.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And some of them come from religious angles, Some are secular, but everybody's got this burning issue.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So here's how I have dealt with it. Others will do it other ways. Okay. But here's how I deal with it.

[Chuck Nice]

I'm interested.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Now, many people are in search of the meaning of life as though it's behind a tree, Right.

[Chuck Nice]

Under a rock. Right. Everybody knows it's in a drawer in the back. Exactly.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Near the paperclip.

[Chuck Nice]

It's in that drunk drawer, too. It's not like a underwear drawer or something? You know that drawer where you go to look for stamps and stuff?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah, that drawer. That drawer. The junk drawer. Everybody's got a junk drawer. Everybody got a junk drawer near the kitchen somewhere.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So if you are looking for meaning you may never find it.

[Chuck Nice]

Ooh.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So instead, recognize that you have the power to manufacture meaning. Create it within yourself. That's what I do. My meaning for life is derived by several simple principles. Have I lessened the sufferings of others? Today, that brings meaning to me because that means the world is a little better off because I was in it today.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

If after your day is over, the world is worse off, you have subtracted.

[Chuck Nice]

Meaning I should kill myself. Cause at the end of every day, somebody is like that mother. But go ahead.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So lessen the suffering of others in some way.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Doesn't mean redirect your whole life, mind, body, and soul. But if you can help someone across the street, help an aging person. Do you know, make a little child laugh. Just put a little bit of joy in the world to lessen the suffering. I also try to learn something every day. All right, Now, I like being a perpetual student. Most people hated being students. This saddens me. School's finished, and what do you do? You run down the steps. School is out forever. School out for the summer. That attitude captured in that song is as though you don't want to be in school. And what's your only job in school?

[Chuck Nice]

It's to learn.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

To learn. And somehow that's a chore.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I don't blame you for feeling that way. I blame the school system for not instilling within us eternal curiosity, knowing that you'll spend more years of your life not in school than in school. And so if you have curiosity, you can be a lifelong learner.

[Chuck Nice]

That's right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And so I want to lessen the sufferings of others and make sure I learn something more about the world today than I did yesterday.

[Chuck Nice]

Nice.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And who's to say whether that extra increment of learning can help me be better at lessening the sufferings of others?

[Chuck Nice]

Ooh.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So that is how I make meaning in life. And as a result, I own thousands of books. Thousands. And I read a little bit. You know, I have a little stash near my bed, and I cycle them out. And every day I try to help. It's harder now because I get recognized, but I try to help people every day. Total stranger.

[Chuck Nice]

That's nice.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. So you can make meaning for yourself. Don't look for it, because you may never find it.

[Chuck Nice]

You know, I'm gonna say, as a philosophy, that is. That's a. That's. That's. That's admirable.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's in the book. I wrote that in the book.

[Chuck Nice]

Nice.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Thank.

[Chuck Nice]

You.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Introducing family Freedom from T Mobile. We'll pay off four phones up to 3, 200 and give you four free phones, all on America's largest 5G network. Visit t mobile.com familyfreedom up to 800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phone via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement. Example Apple iPhone 16128 gigs $829.99 Eligible trade in example iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel contact us.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money. With guardrails in place, sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast.

[Chuck Nice]

Sometimes an identity threat is a ring of professional hackers, and sometimes it's an overworked accountant who forgot to encrypt their connection while sending bank details.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I need a coffee.

[Chuck Nice]

And you need Lifelock because your info is in endless places. It only takes one mistake to expose you to identity theft. Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second. If your identity is stolen, we'll fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year at lifelock.com Specialoffer terms apply from Ninja Janit Whatever. No, Jamit, I don't know. Said I keep hearing the phrase the vacuum of space. How exactly is it a vacuum?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right. Okay, so when I was a kid, a vacuum was a physical object.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes, it was.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

When I heard physicists speak of the vacuum of space, I just imagine all these Hoovers in the sky, Right? So I didn't know that a vacuum was a thing. Was. It was an. It was a concept. And then you make a machine that duplicates that thing. I just didn't know that until I learned. Okay, so a vacuum is where there's basically no air. Okay, you can have objects there, but when we think of a vacuum, it's not a place where there isn't anything. It's a place where there's no air molecules moving. Typically. All right, generally you can have some. And we would still classify it as a vacuum because you have to distinguish, like a regular old vacuum or a perfect vacuum.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Now you know what happens if there's an object and you Take away all the air molecules, the object outgasses. They're air molecules embedded in the surface of that object, and they start coming out. It's fast. Then if you heat it, it sends out more. So it's very hard to make a perfect vacuum. Very hard. So here's an old saying. Nature abhors. Abhors a vacuum. These are people who've never been into space. Most of the universe is a vacuum. Nature loves a vacuum.

[Chuck Nice]

Nice.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Was I trumpy in there? No, love.

[Chuck Nice]

Nature loves a vacuum.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

A vacuum so perfect.

[Chuck Nice]

Preferably trump vacuums. Trump trump, ban trump, ram vacuums. We suck the best.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

There's another. There's another saying. There's no such thing as gravity. Earth sucks. You ever hear that? Oh, okay, okay. So the point is, when there's a source of gravity, all the air wants to go to that source of gravity, and it leaves a vacuum everywhere else. So a vacuum is simply where there's no air, and it's not anything deep. The odd thing in the universe is that you have places where gas molecules collect.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Those are the unusual places in the universe, and they're called stars and gaseous planets and the atmospheres of rocky planets.

[Chuck Nice]

Nice.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. So they have a vacuum. So, Chuck, I want to put some closure on this vacuum question, okay? Okay. This is the second, My third book I ever published.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's called Just Visiting this Planet.

[Chuck Nice]

All right?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And it's a collection of Q and A. I had a column with a pen named Merlin. People would ask fun, really playful questions.

[Chuck Nice]

That's cool.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And it collected. This is, like, decades old, but there's some timeless content in here. Somebody asked about the vacuum. Can I wait?

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, go ahead, please. Well, you can't read otherwise.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, here we go. The best vacuum you will find anywhere. Wrote this 30 years ago.

[Chuck Nice]

That's cool.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The best vacuum you will find anywhere, according to four out of five vacuum retailers and five out of five astronomers, is the void of intergalactic space. But we can then ask, is intergalactic space nothing?

[Chuck Nice]

Hmm.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, it still contains space. If you feel obliged to call intergalactic space nothing, then you must invent a word to refer to the region outside of the universe. In this location, where we presume there to be no space, there can be no nothing.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Let's call it. We're left with no choice.

[Chuck Nice]

Nothing, Nothing, nothing, Nothing.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

A place where there's not even nothing.

[Chuck Nice]

It's the nothing nothing. Wow. Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I'm just saying.

[Chuck Nice]

I like that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I'm just saying. So, Chuck, you want some More vacuum talk.

[Chuck Nice]

Of course. I feel like you just showed up at my door and dumped some dirt on my carpet.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

More vacuum talk.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay. Vacuum talk.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So in Death by black hole.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. I don't remember what number book this is, so in the chapter on being.

[Chuck Nice]

Dense, okay, Something I know a great deal about.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The range of measured densities within our universe is staggeringly large. We find the highest densities within pulsars, where neutrons are so tightly packed that one symbol for would weigh about as much as a herd of 50 million elephants.

[Chuck Nice]

50 million.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And then a rabbit disappears into thin air at a magic show. Nobody tells you that thin air already contains over 10 septillion atoms per cubic meter.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Thin air.

[Chuck Nice]

Thin air, Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. The best laboratory vacuum changers can pump down to as few as 10 billion atoms per cubic meter. Best vacuums.

[Chuck Nice]

That's the best vacuum in a cubic meter.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

10 billion air molecules are still walking around.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Interplanetary space gets down to about 10 million atoms per cubic meter, while interstellar space is as low as a half a million atoms per cubic meter.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow. That is nothing.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That is.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow. That ain't nothing. 500,000 atoms.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The award for nothingness, however, must be given to the space between the galaxies, intergalactic space, where it is difficult to find more than a few atoms for every 10 cubic meters.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That wins.

[Chuck Nice]

That's almost. That's almost nothing. Nothing. That's almost nothing. Nothing.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right, we're gonna go into a de lightning round. Really?

[Chuck Nice]

We only have five minutes left.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, let's go.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, here we go. This is JA Saldana. Says right now, what should be the priority in the field of space exploration? Searching for life. Searching for potential threats of another kind of search? Or is there just no hurry at this matter at all? Greetings from Mexico.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Mexico. Thank you.

[Chuck Nice]

So what is it? Is it. Are we looking for life?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

He wants my opinion. I got an opinion.

[Chuck Nice]

Exploration life. Go ahead.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I got an opinion.

[Chuck Nice]

All right, go ahead.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I want to do it all.

[Chuck Nice]

Why not do it all? And all of the above.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All of the above. Because the moment you do this and not that, they say, why are you doing that? Not that. Oh, because we voted that way. But maybe you don't know why you should do that. And you want to do that. Some people want to do that. Here's what you do. You don't build a road just from New York to la. You build roads everywhere. So that. Yeah, I want to visit that forest. I want to visit this rocky monument. I want to do things that are not prescribed by you, I'm going to.

[Chuck Nice]

See the biggest ball of yarn ever.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Exactly. Right, Right. So what you do is you make a spaceship that is modular, strap on different combinations of rockets.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

This combination gets you to an asteroid to mine it. This gets you to the backside of the Moon. This gets you to Mars. So you don't prescribe what it is you're gonna do next in space. You let the creativity and imagination of all those who've ever looked up say, this is what I want to do. And you say, here you go. Two rockets from aisle B, a booster from aisle C. You're on your way.

[Chuck Nice]

Can I put that on a credit card?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, that's where I got it.

[Chuck Nice]

Here we go. All right, Adam in the airwaves wants to know this from Instagram. How far behind do you think astronomy would be if the Earth didn't have a moon? Oh, wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. So it's not how far behind we'd be, it's how far advanced we'd be.

[Chuck Nice]

Ooh, wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so let me split this out.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I tweeted during Space Week, the 50th anniversary of the Apollo landing, there's a saying that's common in the space circles. It's if God wanted us to explore space, he would have given us a moon.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so that's a good thing. That's a good saying.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

But that exploration is not astrophysicists exploration. That one is people going into space.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You build a rocket to go where you don't have a moon to visit.

[Chuck Nice]

All right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

If you're talking about astrophysics, do you know how many stars the naked eye can see at night?

[Chuck Nice]

More than I can count.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, it's not. It's about three to 4,000.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, really?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Unaided? Yeah. Binoculars, it's 100 times that.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Telescopes, it's a billion times that. But eyes, three to 4,000 stars.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

When it's a full moon out 300 stars.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The Moon wreaks havoc on our ability to see the rest of the universe. So our observing schedules with huge telescopes are split according to dark time or bright time. And if you look at. If you have bright time observations, it's. The Moon is up, and you can only look at bright objects in the night sky.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The deep universe only comes to us when the Moon is not up. So the Moon is basically a pain in the ass.

[Chuck Nice]

It's a star blocker. Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes. Star blocker.

[Chuck Nice]

Look at that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's what it is. So astronomy would be probably half again more advanced because we Would have had these greatest telescopes in the world looking at the night sky twice as often.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

In the darkest parts of the night sky. There you go.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Next.

[Chuck Nice]

That's a damn good answer. Okay, this is ever citipore. I don't know what his. Who cares? I'm sorry.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Whoever that is cares.

[Chuck Nice]

Let me tell you something.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

This is the last time he's going to be asking you a question.

[Chuck Nice]

All right, well, you know what your name is. I'm going to call you George. All right, so George wants to know this. What is the shape of space itself? Ooh, that's a good question.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Well, space can be curved in the presence of matter or energy, as prescribed by Einstein's general theory of relativity. And there's the oft repeated saying, matter tells space how to curve, space tells matter how to move. So space has curvature in the presence of matter and energy. It curves in towards it with the ultimate expression of that a black hole, where it curves in and it never curves back out.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right. If you want to ask what is the shape of all of space? That's like saying, what's the shape of the universe, the observable universe? It's basically a perfect sphere.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right. Because it's your horizon.

[Chuck Nice]

Right. Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's a perfect sphere. The way when you're at sea, your horizon is a perfect circle.

[Chuck Nice]

That's right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The same distance in every direction.

[Chuck Nice]

That's right. If you're just out and there's nothing but water around.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And so what is the three dimensional version of a circle?

[Chuck Nice]

A sphere.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

A sphere. So in space you can see to your horizon in every direction, every direction, all at once. It makes us think we're at the center of a sphere. But that's no different from you thinking you're in the center of the ocean. Right. Just because you're in the center of your horizon.

[Chuck Nice]

Ah, that's next. Ah, that's great. That's good stuff right there. Here we go. This is Chen Yuan who says if we look. If we were to look in all directions billions of light years away, will we see younger universe in all directions enveloping our bigger one? Now.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I have to rephrase that, because as you look out, you see things not as they are, but as they were.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So you are looking at a younger and younger and younger universe. That's the whole point of cosmology. The fact that it takes light time to reach us allows us to see what the universe was doing in the past.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

If light traveled at infinite speeds, you see the whole universe as it is now with no evidence of what it was once doing. But because it takes light time to move, you look out, you see a younger and younger and younger and younger universe until you see the Big Bang itself. And that is 14 billion light years time away from us in every direction. Okay. Or 20 billion years ago.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. And if you calculate that distance through that changing time, it's 14 billion light years to that horizon. Okay. So by the way, that horizon is much farther away today.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Because the universe has been expanding ever since. But you don't see it as it is today. You see it as it was. Right. All right, So I don't know what to say after that.

[Chuck Nice]

I say, yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

One last question. If I do a quickie, go.

[Chuck Nice]

All right. I got to find one that you could do really quick.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You don't know how quick. I can answer questions.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, Then I'm just going to judge that. I'm going to give you one. Here we go. This is. What did I spell? This is Basant. Okay. I don't care what this is. I'm sorry.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

At least try, Chuck.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay. Basant. Basanti. Basanting. Okay, forget it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I'm gonna read the name here.

[Chuck Nice]

Here's the name right there. What's that say? What's that? You're right. That's what it is. Yeah. Okay. Okay. What if all the matter that we see in the universe is just three dimensional part of some four dimensional matter and the dark gravity is just the gravity from the 4D part that we cannot see.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I love it. We are so blind to a higher dimensions.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It could be that all the mysteries in our three dimensions plus time are completely solved by looking at this stuff from a higher.

[Chuck Nice]

From a higher dimension. Right, right, right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Just if you lived in just a flat surface, there'd be stuff going on. You had no idea.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And we say, look.

[Chuck Nice]

Can't you just see?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Just look up. What is up.

[Chuck Nice]

What is that giant graphite thing? Making, making.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Making.

[Chuck Nice]

Creating stuff.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right. On that flat surface.

[Chuck Nice]

On that flat surface.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

What is artist? Where is he? He's mysterious. It just shows up.

[Chuck Nice]

Right, right, right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So I love it. That's the kind of universe I want it to be. Because then when we figure out how to see higher dimensions, boom.

[Chuck Nice]

We figured everything out.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Bada Bing.

[Chuck Nice]

There you go.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All that. Chuck, we gotta run. All right, I enjoyed that. We should do more. Cosmic Craze, the NEAT edition.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet greenlight. The debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending. With real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save, and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money. With guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I've never felt like this before.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

It's like you just get me. I feel like my true self with you. Does that sound crazy? And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, that's it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I'm taking you home with me.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

I mean, you can't find shoes this good just anywhere. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at your DSW store or dsw dot com.