Explosive Science with Kate the Chemist

Summary

StarTalk Radio: Explosive Science with Kate the Chemist

Episode Release Date: April 22, 2025

Hosts:

• Neil deGrasse Tyson – Astrophysicist and Director of New York's Hayden Planetarium
• Chuck Nice – Co-host and comedian

Guest:

• Kate Bieberdorf – Chemist, Author, and Host of NPR's "Seeking a Scientist"

---

Introduction

In this engaging episode of StarTalk Radio, Neil deGrasse Tyson and his co-host Chuck Nice welcome Kate Bieberdorf, affectionately known as "Kate the Chemist." The episode delves into the fascinating world of chemistry, emphasizing the crucial role of science communication and exploring complex chemical concepts in an accessible manner.

---

Guest Introduction and Background

Kate Bieberdorf introduces herself and shares insights into her academic journey and professional endeavors.

• [02:24] Neil deGrasse Tyson: "I think we talked about him on a previous thing. Did you meet at University of Texas?"

• [03:09] Kate Bieberdorf: "Yes. Just took this job. September."

Kate recently joined Notre Dame to help build a science communication minor, aiming to bridge the gap between scientists and the general public. She emphasizes the importance of teaching scientists to communicate effectively across various mediums.

---

The Importance of Science Communication

The conversation underscores the necessity of scientists engaging with the public to foster a deeper understanding and appreciation of scientific endeavors.

• [04:28] Chuck Nice: "So. Good."

• [05:50] Kate Bieberdorf: "Both. That's clutch. Right. We have to do both of these."

Kate explains that her role involves teaching both scientists to become better communicators and journalists to better understand scientific concepts. She highlights the challenges scientists face in translating complex ideas into layman's terms.

• [06:08] Kate Bieberdorf: "It's necessary. We have to teach the scientists how to communicate."

Neil adds that traditional science degrees often neglect training in public communication, further emphasizing Kate's mission to address this gap.

---

Deep Dive into Chemistry: Transition Metals and the Periodic Table

Kate elaborates on the intricacies of transition metals, a topic that often poses challenges in chemistry education.

• [28:10] Kate Bieberdorf: "One of the reasons why transition metals are called transition metals is because they go through different color changes."

She discusses the "band of stability", explaining the neutron-to-proton ratios that make certain atoms more stable. The conversation touches upon the "island of stability", hypothesizing the potential properties of superheavy elements.

• [35:32] Kate Bieberdorf: "The band of stability is all about figuring out what ratio of neutrons to protons makes an atom most stable."

Neil connects this to astrophysics, noting the simplicity of hydrogen in the universe, contrasted with the complex behavior of heavier elements.

---

Applied Chemistry and the Role of AI

The episode transitions to contemporary advancements in chemistry, particularly the integration of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in research.

• [53:12] Kate Bieberdorf: "One of the things I'm really interested in is how we are bonding with AI and we're kind of trying to use it to help us."

She cites an example where AI was tasked to find alternatives to lithium in battery technology, showcasing AI's potential to accelerate scientific discoveries.

• [53:55] Kate Bieberdorf: "It's like the best grad student you could have."

The hosts discuss the symbiotic relationship between human expertise and AI's computational prowess, envisioning a future where AI-driven research becomes commonplace.

---

Fun with Chemistry: Kid-Friendly Experiments

Kate shares exciting and safe chemistry experiments that parents can conduct with their children to spark a lifelong interest in science.

• [49:50] Kate Bieberdorf: "You just need a paint can. Empty, never had paint in it before... And then you mallet it down on the table. You could get hit in the face."

She outlines the Exploding Paint Can Experiment, detailing the materials and safety precautions necessary to execute it successfully. This hands-on activity demonstrates a neutralization reaction, providing both visual excitement and educational value.

• [51:42] Neil deGrasse Tyson: "You can't overstate the need for goggles for all your experiments."

---

Combustion in Space: A Scientific Exploration

The trio explores how combustion reactions behave differently in space due to the absence of gravity and the presence of vacuum conditions.

• [42:20] Neil deGrasse Tyson: "You can't burn a candle in zero g... Unless you have a gentle breeze."

Kate explains that in zero gravity, combustion behaves like a gas-phase reaction because heated gases do not rise, altering the dynamics of how flames sustain.

• [44:09] Neil deGrasse Tyson: "So you can't burn a candle in zero g is the point. Unless you have a gentle breeze."

This segment highlights the interplay between physics and chemistry, demonstrating how environmental factors influence chemical processes.

---

Audience Q&A: Diving into Cosmic Queries

The episode incorporates questions from listeners, providing tailored explanations and demonstrations.

1. Cesium's Reactions:

   • Sean Browning's Question [11:56]: "Why does cesium have such a violent reaction when exposed to oxygen?"
   • Kate explains cesium's placement on the periodic table and its propensity to react violently due to its large atomic structure and electron configuration.

2. Mentos and Diet Coke Phenomenon:

   • Will from Euclid, Ohio [20:19]: "What's the history of the Mentos and Diet Coke reaction?"
   • Kate traces the experiment back to the early 20th century with Winto Green Lifesavers and discusses the science behind nucleation sites that trigger the geyser effect.

3. Electron Configurations in Transition Metals:

   • John from Arkansas [28:10]: "Why are electron configurations in transition metals so convoluted?"
   • Kate delves into the complexities of d-orbitals and electron redistribution, making the topic accessible for both high school and aspiring chemists.

4. Kid-Friendly Experiments for Long-Term Interest:

   • Alyssa Park's Question [49:16]: "What impressive experiment can I do with my young children to foster a lasting interest in science?"
   • Kate reiterates the exploding paint can experiment, emphasizing safety and engagement.

---

Closing Thoughts

Neil deGrasse Tyson reflects on the interconnectedness of physics, chemistry, and biology, advocating for a cosmic perspective that appreciates the fundamental role chemistry plays in our understanding of the universe.

• [57:30] Neil deGrasse Tyson: "There's no understanding of chemistry without physics and there's no understanding of biology without chemistry."

Kate expresses her enthusiasm for continued collaboration and the integration of effective science communication in education.

• [58:43] Neil deGrasse Tyson: "Kate Bieberdorf. Well, thanks for stepping through. Congratulations on your new gig at university in Notre Dame."

The episode concludes with acknowledgments and a mutual appreciation for the conversation, leaving listeners inspired to explore the explosive and dynamic world of chemistry.

---

Notable Quotes

• Kate Bieberdorf [05:50]: "Both. That's clutch. Right. We have to do both of these."

• Neil deGrasse Tyson [28:10]: "We totally knew that."

• Chuck Nice [44:31]: "You cannot be romantic in space."

• Kate Bieberdorf [53:12]: "It's like the best grad student you could have."

---

Stay Curious and Keep Exploring!

For more insightful discussions where science meets pop culture and comedy, subscribe to StarTalk Radio on SiriusXM Podcasts+ or your favorite podcast platform.

Transcript

[Kate Bieberdorf]

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[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Chuck?

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I think that show we just recorded had good chemistry.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes. I especially like the explosions or how to make one.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Coming up on StarTalk. Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now. This is Star Talk. Neil Degrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist. We're doing cosmic queries today. That means Chuck is in the house. Chuck.

[Chuck Nice]

Hey. Hey.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right. You got the queries?

[Chuck Nice]

I do. Right here.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And where they come from?

[Chuck Nice]

They come from our people at Patreon. Nice supporters who give us money. And that is why we like them.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, we like them because they're curious.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, that Right. Yes, that. That's why we like it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So today it's going to be all about chemistry.

[Chuck Nice]

Nice. We love chemistry.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I know a little bit of chemistry, but not enough to do a cosmic queries on it.

[Chuck Nice]

And I know enough to listen.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

We comb the landscape for a chemist and we went to the top shelf.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Top shelf.

[Chuck Nice]

That we found. Kate the chemist. Yes. The McAllen 30.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, it's the 30 year.

[Chuck Nice]

The 30 year old Scotch of chemist, baby. Top shelf.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Top shelf. Chemist Kate the chemist. Welcome back to StarTalk.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Thank you for having me. I love visiting y'all.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, my gosh.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And let me get your full last name in here. Does anyone in the world know this? Bieberdorf.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Mm. Married into that.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Just don't blame me. That's it.

[Chuck Nice]

That is so funny. Married into that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wow.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay. So is your husband a scientist?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

He is a scientist. We met in grad school.

[Chuck Nice]

That makes sense. All right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right. I think we talked about him on a previous thing. Did you meet at University of Texas?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

We did, yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

I remember that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Nice.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I saw.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. I was high.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. That was. Okay. Okay. You are a professor for the public understanding of science.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

We need more of those professorships.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

100%.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes. I know in England they have several of those that were funded by. Who was it one of the Microsoft guys?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Well, the one in Oxford is the Simone one.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Simone. Charles Simone. Yeah. He's a Microsoft billionaire. Yes.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Perfect. My understanding is he also used to date Martha Stewart.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes, he did. He dated her when he went into space.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And had her make the food for.

[Chuck Nice]

Everybody on the space station at the time from prison. She made. Or.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The prison stint was short. It was after that. So, Kate, so you're also an author and you're a host seeking a scientist.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Do you find them after you seek them?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I do, yes. Every time I seek one every time. At least once.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

At least once. And it works every time. Very glad to hear that. So you're at Notre Dame.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yes. Just took this job.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. And. Oh, it's new.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yep. September.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. Well, welcome.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Thank you.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes. Yes. Not welcome. Congratulations.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I'll take it. Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, I was there a few years ago. Gave a public talk. Yes.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

They spoke very highly about it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Very proud institution. Do you teach classes? But there are special classes, so I.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Don'T teach right now, but in a couple years, I'll be teaching science communication courses. So we're gonna build a science communication minor and hopefully turn it into a major.

[Chuck Nice]

So. Good.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It's important right now.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Will this be in collaboration with the communications department?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

A little bit. So it's a part of the journalism department? Yes, that's the arts and letters program. So both of our colleges are gonna come together, and so we'll take their expertise in the actual communication, our expertise with science, and kind of blend it together. And I think it's really beautiful.

[Chuck Nice]

So badly.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Journalism is so bro.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And science might be a way to sort of stitch that. A force to help stitch it back together.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, you know, I'm not even sure if journalism is as broken as we think. I. I believe that people have siloed to an extent where they can't accept whatever journalistic point of view is being put forward because they can't think critically. Critically. So they just go, what the hell, man? That's not cool, what you just said there. Because, you know, I don't agree with you. That becomes the whole.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You need somebody to fix that.

[Chuck Nice]

Right. You know, But I think science is a way of actually bridging the gap, because when people learn how science works as a way of thinking, it changes their entire life 100%.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So if you got the journalism department involved. Very good. And they. So are you teaching scientists to be better communicators or journalists to be better Scientists.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Both. That's clutch. Right. We have to do both of these.

[Chuck Nice]

That's amazing.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

So for the scientists.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Did that word get come into being? That is. I thought it was so fetch, but I'm just getting past fetch.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It's important.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's so clutch. I love it. All right.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It's necessary. We have to teach the scientists how to communicate. Right. And that could be a number of different mediums, of podcasts, books, written, journalism.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Because the science degrees don't care about that. We're not trained in talking to the public in any medium.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

We're really not. We're taught to talk to each other.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

And we're taught to write in passive voice, which I don't know if you've ever read passive voice. It's boring. It's super boring. So if you're trying to connect with the non scientist, passive voice is not the answer.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Chuck Nice]

You know, but both are necessary to be able to talk to scientists, but then be able to translate to the layperson is what's really important. And for some reason, it's. I don't know. How can I put it? I don't want to say that it's. That it's counter to the way scientists are as people. Like, my son is right now studying to become a molecular biologist.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Nice.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

When did that happen? You can tell me that.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, that's what he decided, you know, and he got a full ride.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. You as a father. And he wants to be in molecular biology.

[Chuck Nice]

How'd that happen? That's why he wants to be in it. He looked at my life and was like, oh, no, I need something together. Let me tell you something. Comedy is not the way to go. But I told him. I was like, dude, that's great. You know, with your kind of personality, you would make an excellent communicator for that. And he was like, yeah, I don't want to do that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

I don't want to talk. I don't. I don't want to talk to people about it. I just want to do it. And I think a lot of scientists feel that way.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, I just want to go in the lab.

[Chuck Nice]

I just want to do it. I don't want to talk about it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, shut up and get back to the lab.

[Chuck Nice]

Exactly.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Right. Well, I mean, as scientists, we have three categories. The first thing we do is we ask a question. The little thing we do is we seek the answer. We do our research, and then the last thing is actually sharing it with the public. But that's where we drop the ball. We really don't do it enough. And it takes a skill. My husband is introverted. He's a great chemist, He's a great software engineer. But he would hate to do what I do. And so it takes a certain personality to get out there and put yourself out there. And you also have to have a thick skin. People will come after you for what you say.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So we are here in my office, Hayden Planetarium. What brings you to New York?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Oh, I'm here for a spot on the Today show at the top.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So we're just like. We just squeezed us in.

[Chuck Nice]

I mean, we are a straight up booty call.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

You answered.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, oh, whoa. So if you're on a Today, then you don't need. You're on a Today show, then what do you. What do you.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Well, I like talking to you. Is that the question?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I think that was kind of the question that I.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It's different. Right. So the Today show, you're talking to a certain audience. It's the American public.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

And they're usually people who aren't necessarily signing up for a science lesson. They could be in the doctor.

[Chuck Nice]

That's nice of you. You just called our audience smart.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

They are smart. They're science enthusiasts. Right? Wouldn't you say so?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, no. So no. Very important point here. We already know our audience and it's a science audience, the Today Show. People tune in not expecting science 100%. And then you slip that in and now they can get excited about it.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

That's the goal. That's the goal. So do a little fire, do a little dance, and maybe teach one thing. If I can teach one thing, I consider it a successful segment.

[Chuck Nice]

Which host will you be with on the Today Show?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

So Al Roker, Craig Melvin and Dylan Dreyer.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, cool. You gotta bring in the weatherman. Cause they know science.

[Chuck Nice]

And Al's great. He's an actual science enthusiast.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yes, he is, as is Dylan. They're both meteorologists, so they have that science background. And it's very fun to do stuff with them because they ask the questions too. They're interested and they have that science background. So they want to push it just a little bit, which I love. Right. You need. You need the buddy.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So I probably. We probably did this the last time you came through because I want to get to the questions we asked because we have a million questions that our audience wants to ask.

[Chuck Nice]

And they all know you.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, they all know you. So. Yeah. So just a couple of fast ones here. When you were a kid, did you like Burn holes in the carpet and. And explode the kitchen science. Mommy, what kind of. Were you like, girl nerd? Where this is. I gotta do this.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yes and no. So I was more of an athlete. I was a soccer player. So that was the true love.

[Chuck Nice]

All right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Very nice.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I was a very one who asked a lot of questions. So my parents would count the number of questions I would ask in a car ride. Cause it would drive them nuts. My mom was more a helicopter mom. So there was no blowtorch anywhere near me. There's no chance I would have ever been able to set something on fire.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. But I could see this in a sitcom. The over curious kid. Just, hey, mommy, daddy, have my daddy. And then the car and then the next scene, you're just out on the street. Just leave you.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I'm sure they thought about that. I am positive.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

More and more kindly, they drop you at a museum somewhere and then they keep driving on.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yes, that's perfect.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. But so how did. If she's a helicopter mom, what freedoms were. Did you still have to express yourself?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Okay, so this is where I really appreciate what she did when I was younger. So she made one bathroom safe. Like there were no chemicals. Like, you know, like cleaning chemicals, I should say. But there was food coloring. There was shampoo, bath, soap, bubble bath.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Stuff that can't kill you.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Stuff that can't kill you. Put it in this. She had this big green plastic bowl and it was like, go to town. I will say the food coloring was removed after the first time.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Were you green at the end of that?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I think so.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Food coloring doesn't come off very easily.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah, well, I've. If you look at my Instagram, I'll show you. I had. My face was just covered in green food coloring. Very recently, I had something go wrong.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I just made that up. You're saying that actually happened?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Oh, it happens all the time. I do this one experience experiment where I intentionally cover myself in soapy green bubbles and it comes right off in the shower. Just two face washes. You're good.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. All right. I ain't doing that.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I am.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, you are.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I'm willing to.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's why you are Kate the chemist.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yes, that's right. I like it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So, Chuck, give us. Give us some of our cosmic curiosity.

[Chuck Nice]

Let's get right to it then, shall we? This is Sean Browning, and he says. Hello, this is Sean Browning. I'm coming from Hood River, Oregon.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Hood River? Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Why does cesium have such a violent reaction when exposed to oxygen? And what Are some of its practical uses that the average person would not know about.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Okay. In the periodic table. The periodic table is kind of shaped like a U. And so cesium is in the bottom left hand corner. And so the bottom left hand corner is where your biggest atoms are. And so cesium is really big. And what that means is it has a very, very positively charged core, its nucleus, but its electrons are very. So it can barely reach the electrons. And so because it's so big and their charges are so separated. Oxygen, which likes to take electrons from a neighbor. It is. Exactly. Yes.

[Chuck Nice]

Loves to steal electrons.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It will steal the electrons.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's a book title. The Electron.

[Chuck Nice]

The Electron Thief.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I want that. That's your next book. Okay.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

We'll write together. All right. But, yeah. So it's so big, and so that's. Oxygen can come in, grab the electrons, and the electrons gladly jump to oxygen. Cause it's much, much smaller, and it can.

[Chuck Nice]

Stacey and Light. See you later. Yes. You don't deserv. I can do bad all by myself. Oxygen over there. Been courting me forever. Oxygen. I'm coming, honey.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I can see it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There it is. There it is. Okay, so now it reaches for oxygen. What is the result of that chemical reaction? Is it exothermic?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Endothermic, probably exothermic would be my guess. It really depends on the situation and where their energy levels are. It will form an ionic salt, and so either form cesium oxide or cesium superoxide. So just either two cesiums and one oxygen or two oxygens and one cesium, and it forms these two. Two products, and they're. That in itself is quite stable. The oxides usually are.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, so what does it look. What does this. Because he said violent. What does this violent reaction look like?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

So my guess is he's thinking about when you throw these Group 1 metals into water. So we've seen this with sodium before.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

If you've googled that, love me some sodium and water.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Right?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, my gosh. Sodium. You can cut it with a knife. It's a metal. Cut it with a knife. Tulsa. Water basically blows up in a sense.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah, Definitely exothermic.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

But that's reacting with water.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It is.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Or is it the dissolved oxygen that it's reacting with?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It's the same process happening. It's the electrons being pulled from the group one metal.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Got it. All right.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah. And then it's an exothermic process like you said. So that will ignite when you throw it in water. The other part of the questions you asked about, like, what are some things that people might not know about cesium? And so cesium 133, I think, is used for an atomic clock. And so what happens is you basically disturb these atoms. They give off a frequency, and you can use that, that frequency to measure time.

[Chuck Nice]

And how are you exciting the atoms?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It's a disturbance. So usually it's like a push. You want to get it to vibrate, and so you just have to move it a little bit. And that frequency is then mapped out to keep track of time. And it's so.

[Chuck Nice]

So is it so consistent that it's. You can easily use it. You can set a clock by it.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Exactly.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

In fact, the duration of the second is defined by how many cycles of the cesium atom.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay. So how many vibrations do you get in a second?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

With cesium, it's like nine decimal places. I'm sorry.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, so it's that. That's why it's an atomic clock, and.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That'S why it's very precise.

[Chuck Nice]

Right. Because if you got nine decibel places in one second, that's pretty damn accurate.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I got you. Yes.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, you're good for all time, but no pun intended. What? Chuck, stop it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

He's on a roll. He's on a roll. You want to know how precise this is for that vibration?

[Chuck Nice]

For the vibration that the chemist tells.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

About it is 9,192,631,770 cycles of that vibration. So that vibration is the exact definition of a second?

[Chuck Nice]

Of a second, yes. There you go.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

That's cool.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And if I can add to that, please, if I may. Until that was defined with that precision, the second was a predefined fraction of the year 1900.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And so that involved Earth's rotation around thing. The rotation of the Earth was built into the definition of the second. Why wouldn't it be right? Because of 60 seconds. We use that as 60 seconds in a minute to make 24 hours. Okay. Why wouldn't it be right?

[Chuck Nice]

Why wouldn't it?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

But that meant if Earth were slowing down or speeding up.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

There'd be no way to know that.

[Chuck Nice]

Exactly.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Because the mechanism that's giving you the second is changing. So you offload it onto your cesium atom. Now we say, yo, Earth.

[Chuck Nice]

What?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

What? And so since we don't need you, Earth, we totally don't need you.

[Chuck Nice]

We don't need you.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Not only that, you're acting up.

[Chuck Nice]

So since 1972, plus you're slowing down anyway.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Since 1972, we've had to add 25, 7 leap seconds, right, just to account for Earth slowing down. It's all because of your cesium atom.

[Chuck Nice]

Look at that.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

My cesium.

[Chuck Nice]

I love it. I love it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I don't know any other uses though, is there?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Not really. I mean, I'm sure there's other ones.

[Chuck Nice]

I mean, let's be honest. That's enough.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

What more could you add?

[Chuck Nice]

I mean, seriously, measuring time down to a billionth of a second? Come on, that's pretty damn good.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. All right.

[Chuck Nice]

This year, when 1,000 national park employees were illegally fired, the Sierra Club sued to protect parks and their workers. For over 130 years, the Sierra Club has defended national parks and public lands. Now, with federal funding cuts and a White House beholden to corporate polluters, they're at greater risk than ever. You can help protect these iconic places. This Earth Month, all gifts are matched for a limited time. For double the impact, protect our public lands. Donate now@sierra club.org SiriusXM Make Every Celebration feel uniquely you. Your dog's birthday coming up. Throw a pepperoni pizza party. Or maybe you're planning a game night. Make it a silent disco and charades night. From inspo to all the items you need, Amazon can help you create a truly custom celebration. From birthdays to holidays, Amazon offers convenient one stop shopping for any party. Shop everything for every party on Amazon. We all know about the science behind the golf swing. But now it's time to take it to the next level. PXG has developed the Black Ops driver so golfers don't have to sacrifice distance for forgiveness. And the science proves it. The PGX Black Ops driver is a game changing breakthrough in golf engineering. They're adjustable to deliver a combined MOI of 10,000 for unreal forgiveness. So you don't have to square the ball perfectly for it to go straight and get distance. Add PXG's advanced material face technology and you get incredible ball speed that pushes distance to the absolute limits. More forgiveness, more distance. No sacrifices. PXG Black Ops driver. Hit your tee shot straighter and farther. The proof is in the science and for a limited time, you could save up to 20% on your entire order. Head over to pxg.com startalk that's pxg.com startalk to save up to 20% on your entire Order. Pxg.com startalk restrictions apply. See site for details. Hello, I'm Vicky Baruch Allen and I support StarTalk on Patreon. This is StarTalk with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. This is Will, and Will says Dr. Bieber, Dr. Tyson. And dear Lord, Nice. Thanks, Will, for including a title for me which is not real. Will from Euclid, Ohio. Here. Euclid, Euclid.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

There's a town called Euclid.

[Chuck Nice]

There's a Euclid, Ohio. I've never heard of it until just now, but guess what? I'm glad to know that it's there. Yeah. He says, most gracious thanks for using my question. You probably had this question a bazillion times, but I've never heard an answer to it. So here it is. We've all heard by now that the Mentos and Diet Coke thing. Okay, cool. One, what's the history? And who thought of that? And two, what causes the chemical reaction that everybody puts on YouTube to make the video? Yes.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

The soda geyser. Okay, so that went back to about 1910. It was originally done with those Winto Green Lifesavers, which I was about to say.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

We didn't have Mentos in 1920.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

We didn't? No, we didn't. So it was originally done with the Winto Green Lifesavers. Winto green.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I remember that. Oh, Apostrophe green Lightsabers are that old.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

They are. Yeah, they are. And so they go into the soda like a soda pop. Right. And so it had that little hole in the center, and so it would make this really neat geyser, and it would come out, but then it threw.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The hole in the middle of the. Of the Lifesaver.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yep. But then in the 1990s, the Lifesaver company changed the size of the Lifesaver. The science teachers were upset, and they said, all right, throw this experiment to the students. Let's figure out how to replicate this now that the Lifesaver doesn't fit in there. They did a scientist.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

This is a committed chemist right here.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I'll tell you, I can totally see high school teachers just grabbing their students and grabbing all the candy, all the soda, and say, all right, figure out what it is. Experiment. Exactly.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So what's special about the surface of a Mentos? Because it doesn't have a hole in it. Right. And if I remember correctly, they're solid candies. Right.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It's solid candy, but it has these nucleation sites, these, like, little divots, and they attract on the surface. On the surface. And so it attracts the carbon dioxide in the soda. The carbon dioxide slams into each other, builds up pressure, and it just shoots out the top. And then they found that Diet Coke has the best reaction because it has the highest carbonation.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. I thought, however, that that's not why they use Diet Coke.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Oh, please tell me then if it's otherwise okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I didn't think that was why there's part.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

So one part is that it doesn't have the sugar, that's why. And so it's not as big of a mess for people, but it's a mess. Yeah, right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Diet Coke, you just hose that. But sugar, then the Coke evaporates and everything is gummed up. I thought that was the main reason.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It is one of the main reasons. But if you are on a flight, I don't know if you fly commercial still, but if you are on a flight, excuse me, I don't know, subway to get here. Okay, perfect. Okay, for the rest of us, when we have a flight attendant go down in a plane, watch them. When somebody orders Diet Coke, just watch how they pour it. It takes way longer for all that carbonation to sink and for them to top it off. So you can actually watch it happen Right. On a plane ride compared to a non diet like a, like a Mountain Dew or a Coke or anything. It just has.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

At the lower pressure in a plane, there's less to press down on the CO2 anyway.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Also true.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So that there's more bubbling action regardless.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I will check that out.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Okay, please do. Please do.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right, so that means if I have a soda maker, machine, a carbonator, whatever those machines are called, if I. Because I have, I do own one, but I have. There are three settings. There's low, medium and high. If I go to high and then repeat that three times, that's the liquid you want probably for your experiment.

[Chuck Nice]

I'm also going to blow apart your kitchen. You just made a bomb.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Thank you for saying that.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, next, Andy here. From thousands and oaks, I've heard the human nose is an incredible chemical sensor that not only detect very faint traces of a molecule, but also tens of thousands of types of molecules. My question is, do you use this fact in the science of chemistry to aid in your work in any way or do you generally avoid smelling experiments due to unknown noxious effects?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I love that. Remind me, because chemistry for me was a long time ago. You don't actually stick your nostril on top of the test tube 100%, but there is this thing. So that can dilute it to a level that you can know whether you should get closer.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Exactly so the rule number one is do not eat anything or smell anything or drink anything and laugh. Lab rule number two is, okay, we know you're gonna smell it, so let me teach you how to do it safely. Yep, it's wafting. You're pushing the molecules towards you.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Some of the molecules, yeah.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

A small portion of them. But I think part of the question is asking, like, do you ever do this? And do you ever use your nose? I did something just recently where I had to do this, where people helped me by bringing two beakers out to my. My performance stage, basically my stage table. And they weren't labeled. One had water, one had vinegar. And I immediately just stuck my nose right in there, because we can tell the difference between it. And then I was able to do the experiment without. Without any doubt or anything. But you use it. You use your nose to protect yourself. It's a way for us to know whether or not chicken is bad or good or anything like that. So it is a tool that you can use if you're safe about it in the chemistry lab.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Is there anything that smells good that will also kill you?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Ooh, I'm sure.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Or has that gene pool been removed from our species long ago?

[Chuck Nice]

Hilarious.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's a fair question.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It is a fair question, right? Yeah. I am sure there is something that smells good that will kill us. I can't think of anything off the top of my head right now. Do you have one in mind?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, but I have the opposite, which is we know that hydrogen sulfide is especially deadly at some level well below the level that we can detect it. So when you smell it, you say, this is nasty. I'm going the opposite direction. It was still far from killing you, but anyone who's. But you know what hydrogen sulfide is like rotten eggs.

[Chuck Nice]

Fart.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Fart, Fart. Okay, yeah, I was gonna say rotten eggs, but fine.

[Chuck Nice]

Everybody knows fart.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You're a comedian. You can do a fart joke.

[Chuck Nice]

Listen, that's the first time I got in trouble in elementary school, right? We made. We made. We had hydrogen sulfide, and we. And I took it and put it in an eyedropper and went around and putting it on people so they would smell like farts. You did not. Yes, I did.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The teacher said, you should be a comedian.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Did you?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You should be a comedian. Yes, that's what they said.

[Chuck Nice]

And I wouldn't have gotten in trouble for it if I had just kept it to the doggone students. But I had to get aggressive anyway.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. So there's a suspicion in our evolutionary past that there's an idea that hydrogen sulfide can build up in the bottom of the ocean. If the ocean oxygen cycle stops, then you have anaerobic life forms, and hydrogen sulfide is one of the byproducts of them. And if it builds up to a big enough bubble, it'll come up. And if you're on the shore when that happened and you liked the smell of farts, you would go to it and just die. And if you sort of didn't care, you died. If you didn't like it, you went to the hills. And so the argument is this happened with some frequency in the history of our species. Interesting that it was built into us.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

That's interesting. I hadn't heard that before.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's interesting.

[Chuck Nice]

So all the uncles that said, pull my finger ended up dead.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Somehow. We still do that evolution.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's never the ant that does, it's just the uncle. So it's the guy gene that carried it forward. All right, all right, give me some more.

[Chuck Nice]

This is John. He says hello. Dr. Tyson, Dr. Kate Lord. Nice. John here from Arkansas. I used to teach high school chemistry, but I still teach you. All right, teacher. APPLAUSE But I still struggle with electron configurations, especially in the transition metals. What is it about that section of periodic table that makes it so doggone convoluted?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. And why they call transition metals? Because the edges we. The pretty clean. Clean. We can understand them. You got the gases, the noble gases, and you got the. You know, and you go into the middle and their representation on the table is different.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right. And you have. And these others that are a series, then they pull those out. What's up with that?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

What's up with that? So one of the reasons.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Can we make that cleaner for the rest of us so we can learn it?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I can try. So one of the reasons why transition metals are called transition metals is because they go through different color changes. And so you can actually see them transition through their oxidation stage. And so maybe they're a plus two or a plus three.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You can see the color change across the table. Okay.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah. So you could just sit there and watch your reaction go from, I'll just make up some colors, some blue to green to red. And you're watching it go through different oxidation states, so you can actually monitor it. So inorganic chemists, which is what I do, we usually like color changes. And that's one of the reasons why we're drawn to that field, is because we work with transition metals in high school. And also what I taught which is general chemistry. So the first year of. Of college chemistry, we do general trends. And so we say if something is like this, it'll operate like this. We just try to identify trends. And so the S block and the P block, so the outside areas of the periodic table, they really follow these trends. But the middle, the D block, the transition metals, don't really follow the trends.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You sound like prison. Are you in D block? What are you getting out?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

And so that's what's hard about teaching it, especially in high school, because there are no, like, typical trends you can go by.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Gotcha. No general rules.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

So there are general trends that you can go by, and there are certain ones that all always break rules, like your jewelry, metals. So copper, silver, and gold will always. They're supp. I'm going to nerd out on you. But they're usually D9. But because of the way the electrons fall, they go to D10. And so they can just redistribute their electrons.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I cannot get as excited about.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I'm sorry, but it's an explanation of why.

[Chuck Nice]

Sounds like a boy band.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, it does.

[Chuck Nice]

I used to be in D9, but now I'm in D10.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It's the inorganic flaring. We talk about our D orbitals and where our electrons are. And so I just love that. That part. And it's just. Where are your electrons sitting? They move around to be stable. If you have. Let's say you have five orbitals. There's 5D orbitals if you have two electrons in each one.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

We all knew that.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

You all knew it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we totally knew that.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

If you have two electrons in each one, that provides stability. But if you have 2, 2, 2, 2, and then 1, it's less stable. And so what it does is it takes another electron and move it over here to provide stability. And so these specific atoms, like copper and silver and gold will do that just naturally. And that's why it can be confusing for high school students, because you don't usually teach these excep.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And for grownups.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

And for grownups. Yeah, for everybody. True. But he's a high school teacher.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, yeah, yeah. There it is.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

To pull it back.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, there it is. Okay, cool. Cause in astrophysics, nine out of ten atoms in the universe is hydrogen. And there's nothing easier than the hydrogen energy levels.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And we don't even have to think about orbitals. There's just a layer. There's just levels. And the electron moves back and forth. But when you have all of these electron Clouds. It gets way more realistically described but complicated. Yeah, it's.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It's really hard because you have to figure out how the orbitals are actually going to overlap. Are they going to be complementary? Will it be bonding? Non binding, anti bonding. There's all these different categories.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

They're all molecules in space and we have to. But they. Then they're sort of astrochemists at that level.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I. I can, I can do most of my astrophysics completely ignoring that, it turns out.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Well, that's kind of interesting.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. Not to not touch. To say that.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

To leave right now.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That was not meant as. As. Yeah. Okay, Chuck, what else you have?

[Chuck Nice]

All right. This is M date, I think M says this. Hey, Kate, Neil, Chuck. There are books on complex topics like quantum physics for babies. How effective do you think these books are? Should graduate level science topics be introduced formally at the elementary level in an engaging and understandable way? The cool experiments seen in provide momentary excitement, but they don't leave a lasting impact. Books, however, might. By high school age, the kids ship has already sailed. Grab their attention while you can, I say.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So wait, tell us about your books first.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Okay. I have seven children's books. Five of them are about little Kate the chemist. She's 10 years old. Run around her neighborhood in eastern science.

[Chuck Nice]

Was this a shill?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

No.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No.

[Chuck Nice]

Was this a plant? No.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Who didn't? But I do hear that's her mother.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Her mother. Mom. Thanks.

[Chuck Nice]

So go ahead.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I have five fiction books, I have two non fiction books and I have one for adults. It's called it's elemental. So I just write to try to share science with the general public and try to make it fun.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So are the kids books doing what you want them to do?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Because the two nonfiction books each have 25 experiments that you can do at home with materials you probably already have in your craft drawer. And so what I want them to do is for parents to pick up that book and use it over spring break and do science experiments with their kids.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, that's cool. That works.

[Chuck Nice]

I love that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so. And it seems to me, yes, I think an experiment can be lasting, not contrary to the claim of the question. An experiment, yes, it comes and goes, but it can trigger curiosity.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That whether or not you fully understood the chemical reactions that made it happen, you just don't forget it. And then. And so. So I think educators overvalue the lesson plan relative to the inspiration.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I think so too. And research actually supports what you're saying too. But it also is that you can have a connection with the scientists. So if you show up one time and do an explosion, okay, fine, maybe you'll spark the interest. But if you keep going back and you form a connection with the students and you form that bond, that's when you can actually make a difference. And so showing up really does have value. Yes, but can I push back on the quantum. What is it quantum physics for babies?

[Chuck Nice]

Is it quantum physics for babies?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

There's another one. There's astrophysics for babies. Yeah, There's a series of these books.

[Chuck Nice]

What do they mean by babies? They're not talking about actual babies.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

They're board books that you can flip through. And so they're really small. But I think those are primarily for the parents who can't read another book about the cow goes moo. And so it's intellectually stimulating for the parents. They can be better parents. But at the end of the day, exposing kids to all this vocabulary is just good. So that when they get to the science class, they've been exposed, they're not hearing the word molecule. Molecule for the first time. They already have a general understanding of what it is. Maybe. Maybe.

[Chuck Nice]

Hunter here from Columbus, Georgia. We saw Neil a few weeks ago.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I was just there, gave a public talk in Columbus, Georgia.

[Chuck Nice]

I wanted to ask Kate a question about the periodic table. If the island of stability is real, what kind of properties do you think we might be able to expect from Adams in it?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Oh, okay.

[Chuck Nice]

So were you talking about the island of stability, Neil, or. Or they just wanted to point out that they saw you a couple weeks ago.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

So this is something that I think is really interesting, because as a chemist, I'm familiar with the band of stability, but the island of stability is a little bit outside of my reach. So can I do band and then I throw to you for island? Sure.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Unless they're the same thing and we just call them something different. What's your band of stability?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

So the band of stability, basically, which.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Is another boy band name, the band.

[Chuck Nice]

Of Stability, actually, that would be Coldplay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. All right.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Okay, Kate.

[Chuck Nice]

Got it.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

The band. The band, Band of stability is all about figuring out what ratio of neutrons to protons makes an atom most stable. And so if you have 20 protons or fewer, the ratio is one to one. If you have more than 20 protons, that number alters a little bit. And so for chemistry, specifically atoms, you have 1.5 neutrons to every one proton. That gives you your most stable atom. So that's how I think about it. Where does the island of stability. Come in. Is that an extension?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, yeah. So, okay, so I can only tell you how I have come to learn it. And we can maybe dovetail with what you described above. A certain atomic number, the nucleus is so large, and every one of them are unstable. You can ask, well, what makes a stable element? Is it stable forever or just for a few years or a few minutes? Right. So there might be some practical definition of what we call stable, but for our purposes, all those big atoms do not live for long. And the ones we're discovering, you know, 101, 102, 103, which is the limit of the table. When I was in school, 103 was lawrencium. I think it was. Or still is.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Still is.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Still is.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Thank you.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It turns out that the calculations for the stability of the nucleus, when you go beyond the ones we're currently discovering, into the 120s, 130s. Somewhere in there, and I forgot the exact range, somewhere in there is an island of stable, very heavy elements. And so you have to get past the unstable ones. Typically you make another element by cramming protons and. Or neutrons into a pre existing californium.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

You slam californium into a different other one.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, exactly. You're slamming unstable elements into other unstable elements. See if another unstable element shows up and some of them live for thousandths of a second.

[Chuck Nice]

So if you. If you slam californium into alabamium, you definitely gonna come up with something unstable. God damn. I tell you, I can't believe they came over here like they did alabamium.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Oh, you got me with that one.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, that's.

[Chuck Nice]

Liberals.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I tell you, it'll be the color purple, though. See, that's how you get out of that. So. So this has been described in physics as an island of stability, which we are all just. Our appetite is whetted for it. Because if you have a new element that is stable, what are you going to do with it? What properties does it have? And that all happens on the chemical side, not the physics side.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

So with the island of stability, then, are we saying that it's because I know, like organisium or whatever lasts for less than a second? Right? So are we saying.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So that's the 118.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

118. That's the highest one we know about.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The highest numbered one.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

So I guess what I'm curious about is then would these atoms then stay around for. Are we talking seconds? Are we talking years?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

What do we think? Again, my understanding is that they're permanently stable. But what it would mean is your rules either have a new manifestation in those heavier nuclei or somehow that rule shows up again. But we're all, I can't wait till we get there.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Right. I'm really intrigued by that because I'm curious if it's just like relative stability where it lasts maybe a second still.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Or instead of a thousandth of a second. Yeah. You couldn't still have a wad of it in your hand.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

That's what I'm curious about.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right. As am I. As am I.

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[Kate Bieberdorf]

It'S me, Paige Desorbo, and I'm so excited to share my new shoe collection at dsw filled with my favorite styles and trends for spring. Because if you know me, you know I'm kind of obsessed with shoes. And by kind of obsessed, I mean head over heels. You're going to love these shoes. So snag super cute styles like cute flats, fun heels and cool sneakers from the Paige to Sorbo collection right now at your DSW store or DSW.com.

[Chuck Nice]

This is Jessica. Hello. Dr. Tyson. Lord. Nice. And Dr. Kate. This is Jess from Toronto and Dubai. Well, la di da, Jessica. Anyway.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

She says people show off where they been.

[Chuck Nice]

Let them listen. You got. Got it. I haven't been to Dubai, so I'm going to give it to you.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right.

[Chuck Nice]

I'm probably the only person here who.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Hasn'T been to D. I haven't been to Dubai.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay. Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I've been several times.

[Chuck Nice]

So in space, where there's no oxygen and gravity is minimal, how do chemical reactions, especially combustion, change at the atomic level? Could studying these reactions in a vacuum reveal new insights into quantum effects like wave function, behavior in molecule bound bonding or energy transfer? And quantum mechanics says everything is probabilistic. Is there a tiny chance my candle would light just to mess with me? Thank you, Neil and I love you. And by the way, that's the different kind of probabilistic. So go ahead.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So we should separate that into two areas. There's. What are you doing with no air? But you have two molecules that might perhaps know about each other's existence quantum mechanically through entanglement. Maybe that was a little bit in there. The other one is just in zero. Cheating in zero G. Combustion is fun. Tell us about that.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Well, what's interesting about in zero G is that all of our reactions behave like gas phase reactions because we don't have gravity. Right. And so we are, we get to kind of do stuff that we couldn't do on Earth. We can do it up in space because you can move things around, they expand more. Like a pencil would never float around here on Earth. It would stay at the bottom of a beaker. Right, Same thing. Whereas if you're trying to.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

What are you putting pencils in beakers?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Well, I'm just, I'm just trying to give a solid because if I give just a random molecule, people might not know. But you could visualize a pencil in a beaker. Right?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Pencil molecul.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

A tensor molecule. Yes. It's staying at the bottom of a beaker. We know where it's going to sit. It's going to be at the bottom. It will have interactions.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The whole time.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah, the whole time. But when we go to space now, it moves around. So we have solids that essentially get to behave like a gas. And so the chemistry is just different and you get to look at it. My question is, do we have combustion reactions outside of Earth and outside of the International Space Station? I mean, do we, we have to have oxygen to have combustion?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. So I guess what I, I was really referring to, which was accurately portrayed in the movie Gravity. Okay. There was a small fire that began and they just let it go and it extinguished itself. Because normally on Earth where there's one G, the heated gas rises, bringing fresh oxygen in to continue the combustion. But here it's just. It ate up the oxygen. No more oxygen in town. And these, the, the CO2, whatever the byproducts, can't feed the flame and it's snuffed it out.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So you can't burn a candle in zero g is the point. Unless you have a gentle breeze.

[Chuck Nice]

Right. You have to have something moving more oxygen molecules that way into it. That's so cool.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right, right. So. So that means.

[Chuck Nice]

I did not know that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So you didn't know that I loved it.

[Chuck Nice]

Which way? That is. You cannot be romantic in space.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So anything that combusts, it assumes that it's just moving through the material to burn the whole thing. Right. A piece of paper burns the whole thing and we take it for granted. It's relying on hotter gases being less dense and rising.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right. So do you ever try to think about those experiments?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I have not really thought about it. Cause all of my chemistry happens on Earth and I'm terrified of leaving Earth, and so that's usually where I stop.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I just love that chemistry. I do. Is on Earth. Okay. No, but if we needed you for.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Space to consult, I'd say call someone else. It's not happening.

[Chuck Nice]

There you go.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I don't do that. That scares me.

[Chuck Nice]

Wouldn't go to space.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

No, No. I don't know why. That's my line. It just scares me. I don't want to. I don't want to.

[Chuck Nice]

When you're flying in a plane, you're.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Like, oh, halfway, you're strapped to a rocket. I don't. I don't know.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, no. But in plane you still have one.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. All right.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

What I think about, though, is how you could do different experiments in space. Like you can do the experiments of a womb because you can kind of replicate that and how the baby moves around with not zero gravity, but they have that vibe. Right. They're able to float around. So you can do those type of experiments in space. That's what I think about.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right. Okay. And so there's some reactions. What's a reaction that could only happen in zero g?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I'm curious. Well, not only, but there's certain ways you could do it. Because I could think about taking two different, like, solutions and have the drops come and collide with each other that you wouldn't be able to do and.

[Chuck Nice]

Create these mini reactions right there.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

As they're floating.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

That's amazing.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And just what have. What have that unfold in front of you?

[Chuck Nice]

So solid rockets. Could you do it inside? Like, what. What's in the solid rockets?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's solid fuel.

[Chuck Nice]

No, no, it isn't.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes, it is.

[Chuck Nice]

It's a combination of.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, no. The solid rocket boosters. Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You can go in there and like, bang on the fuel. It's solid. That's why it's called solid rockets.

[Chuck Nice]

That's why they're called solid rockets.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, but generally there's another tank that can be.

[Chuck Nice]

That's what I'm talking about. That.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, okay, that tank. Yes. That has hydrogen and oxygen.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So liquefied, which is way denser than air. Okay. And then you take the hydrogen, oxygen, and so now take us from there. I got a tank twice as big holding liquid hydrogen and half that size holding liquid oxygen. And you gotta keep it really cold. Cause they're liquefied.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And that's why. Have you ever seen the launch. You ever see Slo mo rocket launches from Florida? You see this chunks of ice falling.

[Chuck Nice]

Off, falling off the rocket when they take off?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Florida is a moist environment, and the rocket is cold, and it just. All the moisture gathers on it. If you do that in the desert, you're not gonna have condensation, freezing on it.

[Chuck Nice]

Cool.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so tell me what's happening when you combine. Because in the subject of space, you have liquid hydrogen, liquid oxygen. And I just wave my hands and say, yes, it makes water and there's energy. But take me into that.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

So a traditional combustion reaction. Traditional, not what you're talking about. Has a source of fuel that has carbon associated with it. You treat it with oxygen and you produce water and carbon dioxide. What's really neat about that?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That would give you energy.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah. And it releases energy. It's exothermic.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's anything that burns, basically.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Anything that burns.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Anything organic that burns. Yes, but that's why it turns black when it's done. Because it lays bare the carbon. Yes, yes.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Okay, perfect. But when you remove the carbon, you can have a combustion reaction that's much cleaner. And so that's when you. What you're talking about. So you have hydrogen plus oxygen will give us water.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It'll still be combustion.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Still be combustion.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

But, but, but that, that more cleaner kind. So that the exhaust of that rocket is Water. Water.

[Chuck Nice]

There you go.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

There you go.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

We did it.

[Chuck Nice]

That's awesome. Awesome.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It's very neat.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So do you think in quantum physics two molecules can see each other before they make contact?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

See each other in a way that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

They say, I want to get a little closer to you.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I mean, I always.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The music.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

In my mind, all chemistry is driven around the rearranging of atoms. And that's all driven by electrons, either electron repulsion or attraction. So that's how I think about interactions, is where are the electrons, are they attracted to each other?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

What would be cool is, is if two entangled particles made an entangled molecule.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Wouldn't that be weird? Whoa.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It would be wild.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So that would be weird. One quantum molecule with its bits separated.

[Chuck Nice]

Right?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

That'd be so weird.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That would be weird. But they have to be identical. So maybe hydrogen makes a molecule H2, a lot of oxygen, nitrogen. We breathe O2 and N2, so they're quantum entangled to make one molecule. That's a sci fi story, right there it is. Wow.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Really weird.

[Chuck Nice]

Super cool.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

All right, here we go. This is Alyssa Park.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

But you're Kate, the earth chemist.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So that's not a future book coming at you.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Thank you. All right.

[Chuck Nice]

Alyssa Feldhous says this. Hello, Alyssa from Rocket City, Huntston, Alabama. My daughters Amelia and Olivia just love you. My question is, what is the biggest, most impressive kid friendly experiment I can do with a 4 and 8 year old that will keep them interested in science for years to come? We love a good bang and aren't afraid of getting dirty. Ooh, wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, that's full carte blanche there.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

That's a loaded one. Because 4 year olds getting with a bang, it makes me nervous. But I think if you have adults involved, you could do the exploding paint can experiment, which is really fun.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That sounds good.

[Chuck Nice]

With a four year old or an adult. Why? She said some paint.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wait, wait. The way she said it? Yeah. Everybody knows the exploding paint can, man.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I picture it, that they could help you set it up and then the adult would actually trigger the reaction. So it's very simple. You just need a paint can. Empty, never had paint in it before. Put about an inch of baking soda at the bottom. Take a cup, plastic cup, fill it with vinegar, food coloring, if that's your flavor, and then nestle the cup into the baking soda.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Food coloring into the vinegar.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Into the vinegar? Yep, in the liquid. And then you can put the cup of vinegar into the baking soda. So, like nestle it in like a sandcastle.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Then you're going to put the lid on the paint can. Use a mallet to hammer it shut. You want it completely shut. No place for gas to escape. Now get the kids out of there. They can go far away. Put their safety goggles on. Then adults also with safety goggles on.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Always. Safety goggles.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah. Shake it up, but keep your head back because what will happen is a neutralization reaction. You'll release carbon dioxide. Just like we were talking about earlier with the Mentos and Diet Coke. Yep. Exactly. And then the lid flies up. It's really colorful. It's cute.

[Chuck Nice]

Now, wait a minute. Why doesn't you have to sit it down afterwards? Right. You can't hold that thing.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah, you should put it down. Yeah, good point.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Well, how do you know when it's about to blow up?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It happens very fast. So what I do is I go shake, shake, shake, and I slam it down on the table. And then I step back and then I move on to my next one. And while I'm shaking, my second one, the first one goes off.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wow. Okay, so why doesn't. So I thought paint can live were stronger than that. You know, I think paint can lids are tight, especially if you mallet it shut. But apparently not.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Not enough.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's no match for CO2.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Exactly. Because it's not secured, it's not locked in. And so you. It's not clamped. Exactly. So if you have all those CO2 molecules coming in, going bop, bop, bop in that lid, it will shoot it straight up in the air. It's very fun. Wow, I love that one.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And that happens in seconds.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And the only reason why you put in a small plastic cup is to keep it separate long enough to hit the lid.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Exactly.

[Chuck Nice]

Because otherwise is you. It will escape. All the expanding gas will escape before you. Before you have to mallet it down.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Exactly.

[Chuck Nice]

So when you nestle it in like that, you keep everything separate. You mallet it down. Now you mix it. Bang.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

And you throw it up first so the liquid's gonna go up and then it all slams down at one time. And so when you shake it, it actually really nicely distributes the vinegar all over it grabs that baking soda and then you get the cool acid based neutralization reaction. All right, Very fun. Keep your head back. Keep your head back because you could get hit in the face.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, see, I'm gonna let my kid do that.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

How old's your kid?

[Chuck Nice]

This is the money maker. I don't care how old the kid is. It don't matter. Can't have a paint can blowing up in this. Like, sorry, baby. This is what pays. This is what pays the mortgage. So you shake that can and put it down as quickly as possible.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

But you can't over state the need for goggles for all your. All of your experiments.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah, I usually wear goggles, a lab coat and gloves. It is a little overkill sometimes, but I like to set a good example. It would break my heart if a kid got injured doing something. They watched me.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Gotcha. Gotcha. All right.

[Chuck Nice]

Hello, Dr. Tyson and Dr. Bieber. Dorf and Lord. Nice. James from Denmark here. What would you say are the most promising developments in applied chemistry today?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Oh, man.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Do you claim material scientists in your community?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Ooh, I do, yeah. Because that's chemistry.

[Chuck Nice]

It's all chemistry.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's all chemistry.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

And it's usually a branch of inorganic chemistry as well. So I.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Which is your bailiwick?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yes, that's my.

[Chuck Nice]

Those guys are awesome.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So what's on the horizon there?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Oh, there's so many different things right now. One of the things I'm really interested in is how we are bonding with AI and we're kind of trying to use it to help us. And so one thing that I just read is that they asked Microsoft, AI what could we do to replace lithium in our lithium ion batteries.

[Chuck Nice]

Good problem.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It took a week, but it came up with an answer. And so now we are able to.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Hamsters and a hamster wheel. Thank you, AI for that brilliance.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Exactly. But so now we have an answer. We can use it and go troubleshoot and see if that will work. And so what I'm really interested right now is how those two worlds are kind of merging together and how we can use that to do better research, more effective research. And so that's what's happening right now. And I am really excited about that.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, that's what AI is best at.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yes. I think it's fascinating.

[Chuck Nice]

Looking at molecules is easy for AI it's like, you know.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Well, it has a lot of information.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That I can pull together everything.

[Chuck Nice]

And it can think in terms of. I use the term think. It can think in terms of future combinations that we could never even get to. We would not have time to get to it because it can calculate them all at once.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Aren't there books that have all the chemicals, chemical potentials of all reactions?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Oh, are you talking about the crc?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes, crt.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I have one. It's a huge book. What is that? Oh, what does that stand for? Something.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Cambridge Rubber Company. I mean, a consolidated rubber company.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Is that true?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So there are these compilations of all these properties that have been discovered piecemeal and assembled into these volumes. Any scientist. We have a CRC on our shelves. Whoever that company was, they decided to compile all the information you could ever want in science. There you go. Okay. You know what I did? I found at auction a CRC from my birth year. So I bought it. So that is a slice in time of what we knew about the chemistry, the physics, the bio. It is all science in there, including math. Okay, so here's the point. It's a thousand pages. It would take me a lifetime to read through it. But AI could ingest it and come.

[Chuck Nice]

Up with 2 minutes chemicals.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Why couldn't it?

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Right. It's the best of both worlds.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Because you list is the word chemical potential. What is the likelihood that two atoms will come together? What's the.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Well, atoms or electrons, because potentially your outer electrons. Sure, yeah. Usually potential, when we're talking about that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, activation potentials or whatever.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Activation energies.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So. Energies. So they know. So the book has it. But you're not gonna sit there and read thousands of things and come up with a new molecule.

[Chuck Nice]

Let it do it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

But let it do it. While you out on the beach sipping a pina colada.

[Chuck Nice]

And then you get a notification on your phone. I found that new you've been looking for.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And then you say, AI write the paper, publish it.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It's like the best grad student you could have.

[Chuck Nice]

It's so funny.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right. It's been said, primarily because it's basically true, that there's no understanding of chemistry without physics and there's no understanding of biology without chemistry. And so I come to the table as a physicist. So when I look at the world, I see the interaction of matter, motion and energy. The biologist sees the interaction of all life. Yet the chemist is situated between those two, because to go from inorganic molecules to self replicating life, there's some complex chemistry involved. In fact, biology is the most complex form of chemistry we know. But it's not only that. It's everything around us. Everything is made of atoms and molecules. And we take it so much for granted that somebody at some point in our past thought, thought about that, what those atoms would do when they were brought together to make a solid object, to make a liquid object, to make rocket fuel, to make those. Those ice packs that you shake and put on your injury. One of them turns cold, the other turns hot. A chemist was in the middle of that. So I don't think we spent enough time paused in reflection of what role chemistry, history, and the chemists who are behind it all have done for civilization. And that's a cosmic perspective. I think that's all the time you.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Got to come back more often. Thank you for having me. I love.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

So, so.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And your podcast is Seeking a Scientist. Seeking a Scientist. And that's with npr.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

It's with npr, yeah. Out of kcr. It's out of Kansas City.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Excellent. And. And you interview other scientists and you engage them with their Expertise. And you bring your chemistry patina to it, perhaps.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yes. I definitely try to bring the science communicator out of the people I interview.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Because not all of them would necessarily be communicators.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Yeah. And do kind of like what you and I do where we feed off each other and kind of fact check a little bit.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah. Fact checking is fun.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Have the same kind of conversation. And so it's just, it's really nice to feature scientists that might not normally get featured. And I love that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

There you go. Right. Kate Bieberdorf. Well, thanks for stepping through. Congratulations on your new gig at university in Notre Dame. Yeah. Defining Irish.

[Chuck Nice]

Fighting Irish.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. There it is. All right, we'll look to and try to come back some more often.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

I will. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. It's always fun talking to you guys.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right. Chuck, always good to have you, man.

[Chuck Nice]

Always a pleasure.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

This has been Star Talk, Cosmic Queries, the Chemist's edition. Until next time. As always, ways keep looking up.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Three distinct all electric Cadillacs.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Some drive them for the performance, others drive them for the range. And some drive them because it's the.

[Chuck Nice]

Only way to make an entry.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Three different ways to turn every drive into an occasion.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

Whatever your reason, there's never been a.

[Chuck Nice]

Better time to say let's take the Cadillac. The all electric Cadillac family of vehicles. Escalade, iq, Optic and Lyriq.

[Kate Bieberdorf]

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