Super-Duper Novas with Michael Shara

Summary

Episode Summary: "Super-Duper Novas with Michael Shara" on StarTalk Radio

In this engaging episode of StarTalk Radio, host Neil deGrasse Tyson teams up with co-host Chuck Nice and esteemed astrophysicist Michael Shara to delve deep into the explosive lives of stars. Titled "Super-Duper Novas with Michael Shara," the episode offers a comprehensive exploration of novas, supernovas, and their profound impact on the universe.

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1. Introduction of Guest: Dr. Michael Shara (02:24)

The episode kicks off with a warm welcome to Michael Shara, a renowned astrophysicist and a pivotal figure at the Department of Astrophysics. Chuck Nice highlights Shara's longstanding relationship with the Hubble Space Telescope Institute, noting, “[03:07] Michael Shara: I was there more than 40 years ago... the first scientific hire without tenure who got tenure at the Space Telescope Institute.” This establishes Shara's deep roots and expertise in the field of stellar explosions.

---

2. Understanding Novas and Supernovas (03:51 - 05:53)

Shara begins by clarifying the fundamental differences between novas and supernovas. “[04:07] Michael Shara: They are completely different things,” he asserts, emphasizing that despite their similar nomenclature, the phenomena are distinct. He further elaborates on the various types of novas, including micronovas, dwarf novas, and recurrent novas, each with unique characteristics and behaviors.

Neil chimes in humorously, “[04:30] Michael Shara: They’re all,” prompting a light-hearted exchange about the complexities of stellar terminology. The discussion underscores that while both events involve stellar explosions, their underlying mechanisms and outcomes differ significantly.

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3. Binary Star Systems and Novae Explosions (06:35 - 09:05)

A pivotal point in the conversation revolves around the nature of binary star systems in relation to novas. Shara explains, “[06:35] Michael Shara: Every nova is a binary star,” highlighting that these explosive events typically involve two stars in close proximity. Neil probes further, asking if one star feeds another, to which Shara responds, “[06:44] Michael Shara: That’s exactly right. And feeding may not be exactly the right word. You might think of it as a kind of cannibalism. Oh, involuntary.”

This segment delves into the dynamics of mass transfer between stars, illustrating how one star can accrete material from its companion, leading to repeated explosive outbursts characteristic of recurrent novas.

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4. Classification of Supernovas: Type I and Type II (13:57 - 16:57)

The conversation transitions to supernovas, with Shara distinguishing between the two primary types. “[14:01] Michael Shara: It used to be thought that there were two kinds of supernovas,” he begins, confirming Chuck's guess, “[14:02] Chuck Nice: Let me guess. Type one and type two.”

Shara elaborates on the classifications:

• Core Collapse Supernovas (Type II): Result from massive stars (20-100 solar masses) whose cores collapse under gravity, leading to a catastrophic explosion.
• Degenerate Supernovas (Type I): Arise from white dwarf stars in binary systems that accumulate mass beyond their Chandrasekhar limit (~1.4 solar masses), leading to an uncontrollable energy release.

He notes, “[15:54] Michael Shara: So we know that in very, very first, from very first principles, the broadest way of looking at these supernovas are that they're either what we call core collapse supernovae... or singular double degenerate supernovae.”

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5. The Role of Supernovas in Creating Heavy Elements (23:41 - 25:19)

Shara addresses the origin of heavy elements in the universe, explaining, “[23:45] Michael Shara: Probably a combination of them.” He discusses how different types of supernovas contribute to the synthesis of elements like iron, silicon, and nickel. “[24:27] Michael Shara: And then there are things that are 10 to 100 times brighter than that, and those are the hypernovas.”

Neil interjects with enthusiasm, “[23:11] Neil deGrasse Tyson: So I love the idea that I've never heard it put before when you say the Pacific Ocean amount of hydrogen...”

This segment underscores the critical role supernovas play in seeding the cosmos with the elements essential for life and planet formation.

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6. Pre-Supernova Detection and Betelgeuse’s Impending Explosion (20:47 - 54:08)

A highlight of the episode is the discussion on predicting supernovae, particularly focusing on Betelgeuse. “[20:47] Chuck Nice: Yep... Why can't we study this to kind of know what's happening inside of a black hole?”

Shara outlines the challenges and current methodologies in detecting pre-supernova signals:

• Neutrino Detection: “[48:21] Michael Shara: And a gorgeous detector right near Sicily, a huge underwater detector.”
• Gravitational Waves: “[50:07] Michael Shara: We have several detectors, at least three up and operating now, that are going to detect those gravitational waves.”

They discuss the theoretical timeline of Betelgeuse’s supernova, with Shara estimating, “[46:56] Michael Shara: Probably a million years to go, but it might be tomorrow.” The conversation touches on the potential visibility and impact of such an event, assuring listeners that while spectacular, it poses no immediate threat to Earth.

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7. Historical Supernovas and the Star of Bethlehem (54:08 - 59:59)

Shara and the hosts explore historical records of supernovas, referencing the Crab Nebula’s 1054 AD supernova. “[56:07] Michael Shara: So we have the technology, astronomers now have the technology to once and for all answer the question.”

They examine ancient astronomical records from China, Japan, and Korea, seeking correlations with biblical accounts like the Star of Bethlehem. Shara concludes, “[57:55] Michael Shara: And there is no good candidate,” suggesting that the biblical event lacks astronomical evidence as a recorded supernova.

Neil reflects, “[58:51] Michael Shara: So we now have the technology, astronomers now have the technology to once and for all answer the question.”

This dialogue emphasizes the interplay between astronomy, history, and mythology in understanding celestial events.

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8. Type Ia Supernovas as Standard Candles (60:37 - 67:17)

The episode delves into the significance of Type Ia supernovas in measuring cosmic distances. Shara explains, “[60:37] Michael Shara: These are the so called type 1A supernovae.” He describes how these supernovas serve as “standardizable candles” due to their consistent peak luminosity, allowing astronomers to gauge vast intergalactic distances accurately.

Chuck adds, “[66:37] Chuck Nice: They actually calibrate themselves for you. There you go. That's amazing.”

This segment highlights the pivotal role Type Ia supernovas played in the discovery of dark energy and the accelerated expansion of the universe, underscoring their importance in modern cosmology.

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9. Closing Remarks and Future Prospects (69:00 - 70:16)

As the episode wraps up, the panel reflects on the advancements in astrophysics and the exciting possibilities ahead. Shara mentions ongoing research to better understand supernovas and their remnants, while Neil encourages listeners to continue exploring the cosmos.

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Notable Quotes:

• “[04:07] Michael Shara: They are completely different things.”
• “[06:35] Michael Shara: Every nova is a binary star.”
• “[14:01] Michael Shara: It used to be thought that there were two kinds of supernovas.”
• “[23:45] Michael Shara: Probably a combination of them.”
• “[46:56] Michael Shara: Probably a million years to go, but it might be tomorrow.”
• “[60:37] Michael Shara: These are the so called type 1A supernovae.”
• “[66:37] Chuck Nice: They actually calibrate themselves for you. There you go. That's amazing.”

---

This episode of StarTalk Radio masterfully blends scientific rigor with accessible explanations, offering listeners a detailed understanding of the life cycles of stars, the mechanisms behind their explosive deaths, and their indispensable role in shaping the universe. Michael Shara's expertise provides clarity on complex topics, making this episode a must-listen for astronomy enthusiasts and curious minds alike.

Transcript

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[Chuck Nice]

Chuck. It's great to have colleagues who are the world's expert on something. Just arms reach down the hallway.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, I would not know what that.

[Chuck Nice]

Is like in this case. Stars that blow up.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Cool.

[Chuck Nice]

That is so cool. Coming up on StarTalk. Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. Startalking begins right now. This is Star Talk. Neil Degrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist. We're going to do cosmic queries today. Chuck.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Hey, Neil.

[Chuck Nice]

Did you collect the cosmic queries? I did, and it's not. They're not just random this time.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, they are not.

[Chuck Nice]

They were solicited on the topic of stars that blow up.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh. And by that, we mean those nasty stars that are just mean to all the other stars.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, is that how that works? I haven't checked the sociology of the galaxy lately. There's a friend and longtime friend and colleague of mine who works right down the hall who is one of the world's experts on stars that blow up. Dr. Professor curator Michael Sharra.

[Michael Shara]

Mike, Good afternoon.

[Chuck Nice]

Welcome back to StarTalk.

[Michael Shara]

It's a real pleasure to be here again.

[Chuck Nice]

Did you guys realize he was our first hire when we rebuilt the Rose center?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Really?

[Chuck Nice]

So 25 years ago, the Rose Center's been here 25 years, but we built the Department of Astrophysics to prevent that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

We got Michael and we said, and now we can build Around Michael.

[Chuck Nice]

And you came from the Hubble Space Telescope Institute?

[Michael Shara]

I did.

[Chuck Nice]

So you and Hubble go way back.

[Michael Shara]

I was there more than 40 years ago, and I was, in fact, the first scientific hire without tenure who got tenure at the Space Telescope Institute.

[Chuck Nice]

So you were there prelaunch. That's the origin story of the Hubble Institute.

[Michael Shara]

I was hired there seven and a half, almost eight years before the launch of the telescope.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wow. That's like being on Krypton before Kyle L. Was launched.

[Chuck Nice]

So that's on the campus of Johns Hopkins University. University.

[Michael Shara]

Correct.

[Chuck Nice]

In Baltimore.

[Michael Shara]

That is.

[Chuck Nice]

Right, right, right.

[Michael Shara]

3700 San Martin Drive.

[Chuck Nice]

Whoa. There it is. And we were delighted that you were ready for change and you came to join us here.

[Michael Shara]

It's been 26 fabulous years. The only condition of my hire was that I not blow up like the stars I study. I'm still here, still having.

[Chuck Nice]

Plus, he won tickets, I think. You know, I think that was in the deal that we cut with him.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, that works.

[Chuck Nice]

So, Mike, tell us about stars that blow up. First disentangle. The fact that the word nova and supernova looks like one is just a sort of an extra version of the other. But they're two completely different things in the universe.

[Michael Shara]

They are completely different things. But there's not just novas or novi and supernovas. There are micronovas. There are dwarf novas. There are recurrent novas, okay? Novas, supernovas, sub supernovas, and hypernovas. And they're all.

[Chuck Nice]

Now you sound like you're just making.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Shit up right now. Once you get past supernova, you know.

[Michael Shara]

Well, if you find something that is more energetic and brighter, right. Lasts longer and even more unexpected than a supernova, you got to give it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

A title because you're already titled super to supernova.

[Chuck Nice]

Because at the time you titled that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That was that super.

[Michael Shara]

That was the ultimate. And now we know there are things that are a lot brighter and. And even more, in a sense, explosive than supernova.

[Chuck Nice]

So had I been around at the search for that new term, I would have called it super duper nova. Way more fun.

[Michael Shara]

And when some of me and my explosive star friends are sitting around over a beer, that's what we refer to.

[Chuck Nice]

Super duper nova.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Super duper nova.

[Chuck Nice]

So let's back up. So the stars. Nova, literally, from Latin, means new, right? Yet it's the star at the end of its life, or at end of it's long live the life before it goes nova.

[Michael Shara]

So it's really misnamed long before it Goes supernova. There's a real difference because novas.

[Chuck Nice]

Let's start with novas.

[Michael Shara]

Okay, let's do, in a sense, the simpler thing. Novas are stars that explode but don't die.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Gotcha.

[Michael Shara]

Every nova explodes not just once or twice, but thousands of times.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, it's a Christian Bale star.

[Michael Shara]

These are things that explode over and over again. And there can be years between the explosions of novas. These are called recurrent novas or centuries.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Michael Shara]

Millennia, even a million years. Because something has to be rebuilt. The explosive part has to be rebuilt and then it explodes again because the star's still there, the star, the underlying star. And it turns out that every nova is a binary star. So the stars, plural, are still there after the explosion.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Did you say every nova is a binary system? That's correct. So does that mean that one star is feeding another star?

[Michael Shara]

That's exactly right. And feeding may not be exactly the right word. You might think of it as a kind of cannibalism. Oh, Involuntary.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh my.

[Michael Shara]

Of one star, by the other way. And it's worse.

[Chuck Nice]

Wait, wait. But the. It's worse bulbous star that's handing over the matter, Right? It was asking for it because it was. It's, it's. It's.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's in actually in its space. It's in its space up in the space. Up in the space. And the little star is like, why are you in my grill, man? That's.

[Michael Shara]

That's exactly correct, I'll give you that. It's also worth remembering that there's a kind of zombification going on here because the little star is almost always what we call a compact degenerate object. Either a white dwarf or a neutron star or a black hole.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Hi ho, Listen, I got a gambit problem. What can I say?

[Michael Shara]

So it's not just you have some overbearing, bulbous, hasn't been able to control itself star involved, but it's actually being eaten by this nearby. Very compact, very generous.

[Chuck Nice]

It actually takes two to tango.

[Michael Shara]

Very much so.

[Chuck Nice]

Right. Okay, tell me exactly what's happening. So the secondary star, is that what it's called, the big one?

[Michael Shara]

It's sometimes called the donor, sometimes called the secondary star.

[Chuck Nice]

That star also has to be in a late stage of its own life to become a red giant and swell to become so large to overspill the gravity boundary.

[Michael Shara]

That happens in some cases, but it doesn't actually have to be a red giant. It can be a main sequence star still burning hydrogen, just like the sun. Just like the sun.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Our sun, yeah.

[Michael Shara]

Identical to the sun in every way. And the reason that it's starting to be accreted onto or it's feeding the companion is just that it's so close.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Michael Shara]

That as a little bit of it expands, just a tiny bit of expansion during its evolution, the nearby star has enough gravity to be able to immediately vacuum off, suck off any material that expands beyond a certain radius. So it doesn't have to be close orbiting ones.

[Chuck Nice]

It doesn't have to. Okay, gotcha.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wow. So have we ever taken a look at these systems and seen, like planetary systems around them?

[Michael Shara]

We've looked. It would be an extremely unpleasant environment for any planetary system. Nobody has found one.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Michael Shara]

Even if it was there, it would be extremely hard to find because there's a lot of light being given off by these guys. They're intrinsically, they have hot spots. I see, I see the accretion disk, the doughnut of material around the compact star is quite bright. It flickers like crazy. And any planet would be, of course, thousands of times or hundreds of times less massive than the two stars.

[Chuck Nice]

When you say the disk flickers is that every time a little bit of matter hits it, you get a little bit of bright spot.

[Michael Shara]

You have stuff being sucked off the donor into a donut shaped accretion disk, as it's called, around the compact object. And as that stream of material bangs into the donut, causes flickering continuously on a time scale from minutes to seconds, probably down to milliseconds.

[Chuck Nice]

And the donut is a mechanism to feed the compact object. Okay, so now why doesn't it just explode as soon as stuff hits the surface?

[Michael Shara]

You need to not just get a little bit of hydrogen onto the surface, because if you put a bit of hydrogen on the surface of a white dwarf, it can just sit there. The hydrogen doesn't feel the need to explode until it reaches a certain density and temperature. And that critical density and temperature mean that in the case of a. Let's talk about a white dwarf star. Just for concreteness, that's what most ghost novas are. White dwarf stars. These are guys that are about the mass of the sun, so several hundred thousand times the mass of the Earth, but they're only the size of the Earth. And how much hydrogen do they need to accrete in order to become explosive? Well, because they're the size of the earth, about 8,000 miles across, they need to accrete about a mile of hydrogen, so about a Pacific Ocean's worth of hydrogen onto their surface at that point the density and pressure at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean of hydrogen is about 10,000 grams per cc. So about a thousand times denser than lead. Temperature reaches 40, 50 million degrees. @ that point, the hydrogen becomes highly explosive.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Boom.

[Michael Shara]

You blow up, and you get to be about 100,000 to a million times as bright as the sun.

[Chuck Nice]

Clarify something. Yep. Hydrogen as a gas is explosive. So that's not what you meant.

[Michael Shara]

Right.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, so be precise there.

[Michael Shara]

It is not the kind of explosion that you're thinking of in the Earth's atmosphere, where hydrogen combines chemically with oxygen.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All the humanity.

[Chuck Nice]

From the Hindenburg. Yes, yes. The last.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Sorry for going dark there, guys. Sorry.

[Chuck Nice]

That's it. The last original ever filled with hydrogen.

[Michael Shara]

We're talking something 100,000 or a million times more energetic because we're talking nuclear reactions. So instead of the hydrogen combining with oxygen, we're talking about protons smashing into each other, overcoming the. The. The charge barrier between them fusing together.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Nice.

[Michael Shara]

Basically a hydrogen bomb.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah.

[Michael Shara]

And. And once you do that, once you become a million times as bright as the sun, we can see you not throughout the Milky Way. Not just throughout the Milky Way, not just in the Andromeda Galaxy. But I've tracked more than 100 Novas in the Virgo cluster of galaxies 50 million light years away.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wow.

[Michael Shara]

So these become really, really bright objects.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So I love the idea that I've never heard it put before when you say the Pacific Ocean amount of hydrogen. Because it's also pressure, Right. That you need, right?

[Michael Shara]

That's exactly right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. So it's like the same way as you get to the bottom of the Pacific, you would be crushed because of the pressure. It's that same pressure that is causing this ignition.

[Michael Shara]

And the pressure, of course, is causing the density to be higher and higher. The higher and higher density pushes the protons closer and closer together, which ordinarily.

[Chuck Nice]

Don'T want to get together because they have the same charge.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Science is amazing.

[Michael Shara]

I'm sorry.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's just so damn cool. It's just so cool, man.

[Chuck Nice]

Let's put a pin in that. And now let's go to supernova, and then we'll go to our Q and A.

[Michael Shara]

It used to be thought that there were two kinds of supernovas.

[Chuck Nice]

Let me guess. Type one and type two.

[Michael Shara]

That's precisely right. And of course, it turns out that the type 1 supernovas are in what we call population 2 galaxies. And the type 2 supernovas, just the opposite.

[Chuck Nice]

One of my early books, there was a chapter titled the Confused Person's Guide to Astronomical Jargon. That was the name of the chapter. It should be, like, required reading, I think.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Michael Shara]

So now, with almost a century's worth of study of these things, we know that in very, very first, from very first principles, the broadest way of looking at these supernovas are that they're either what we call core collapse supernovae, that is, massive stars, where the inner part of the star, which holds itself out against the gravity of the rest of the star, loses that pressure. Somehow that inner part of the star collapses in on itself, and when it does so, the whole star implodes, bounces on the inner part of the star, and then much of the star is blown away. So that's a core collapse supernova. And the other kinds are what are called singular double degenerate supernovae. And these are guys, stars that are mostly white dwarfs that have also lost their source of pressure in their centers, collapse down to become probably neutron stars, in most cases releasing enough energy to blow off the outer envelope. And these two very different kinds of supernovas have very different properties in terms of what we see in their spectra, what we see in the ejecta, the stuff that gets blown off of the two stars. So we know that they're two very different things. And within the core collapse supernovae, they can be anywhere from, oh, 20, 30, 40, up to 100 times the mass of the sun, while the other ones, the degenerate supernovas, are somewhere between about 1.4 and about three times the mass of the Sun. So much lower masses.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And those are the ones that also don't pay child support.

[Michael Shara]

Never. Yeah, but they are the ones that let us discover the dark energy.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Nice. So as I'm hearing you describe this, I can't help but recall to mind, like, neutron stars, because that's basically what you described, if I'm right. Neutron star. And then if it's spinning very fast, it's then a pulsar. Right.

[Michael Shara]

If it's spinning very fast and has a magnetic field.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, okay.

[Michael Shara]

That's an extremely important part of it, which it almost certainly does.

[Chuck Nice]

And the magnetic field can't be aligned with the axis of rotation perfectly.

[Michael Shara]

It's got to be tipped. You get all of those things, you're going to end up with a pulsar for a while.

[Chuck Nice]

For a while.

[Michael Shara]

Maybe 100 million years. Well, listen, that's just a blink.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's a blink in the eye. Astronomer. Wow, look at that.

[Michael Shara]

After some time after that hundred million years or so, it's going to go radio quiet. It's not going to be as interesting. So for every pulsar we see wandering around out there, there are probably 100 quiet or listened to so we can hear the beep beep beep. There's probably 100 quiet ones.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So now here's my last question because.

[Chuck Nice]

I know I don't one that's not your last question.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I know real never is, but I don't want to take up time from the people.

[Chuck Nice]

Are you about to ask a question?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes.

[Chuck Nice]

Where's your Patreon?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, come on now. I'm asking on behalf of. Let's see.

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I just.

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[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I'm Nicholas Costella, and I'm a Proud.

[Michael Shara]

Supporter of StarTalk on Patreon.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

This is StarTalk with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Everything you just said seems to me like the same things in the process of creating a black hole, except you need a lot more mass. And then what happens in the end is that we can't see into it because at some point, the gravity is so great that light can't escape. If that is the case, and this process is the same, just bear with me.

[Chuck Nice]

Yep.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Why can't we study this to kind of know what's happening inside of a black hole?

[Michael Shara]

The answer is a few parted. Okay, so first of all, we only know for sure of one kind of all the core collapse supernovas, because there are different kinds of flavors. Okay? So think of them as ice cream. There's chocolate, vanilla, strawberry, raspberry.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Terry Garcia.

[Michael Shara]

So there's many, many, many different subtypes of the massive star supernovas. We know of the ones that are called the type 2 plateau supernovae, that they have red supergiant progenitors.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay?

[Michael Shara]

That is the stars that make these kinds of supernovas and almost certainly end up as black holes, as modest mass. Black holes are red super, giants.

[Chuck Nice]

But you get it. Supernova with the black hole or not? Or does everything just get sucked in?

[Michael Shara]

Some of the stuff gets blown off?

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Michael Shara]

We think yet. And the reason we think that is we've seen lots of supernovas, and we look at them, we've observed lots of supernovas. And when you look really, really carefully, a century later, two centuries, a thousand years later, we see a supernova remnant. We see a big expanding cloud of gas. The Crab Nebula is maybe the classic example.

[Chuck Nice]

Can you also measure the rate at which the gas is moving away? We can turn the clock back and say 1054 for sure.

[Michael Shara]

Absolutely. So that's how we know we're beyond the shadow of a doubt. And we know that there is a very, very bright, rapidly spinning neutron star in the center of that supernova. There is a beautiful pulsar there, too. So there we have absolute proof, as much as you can prove anything ever in astrophysics, that you had an intermediate mass star, maybe 10 or 15 or 20 solar masses that collapsed down to give you a spinning neutron star and the supernova remnant. But there may be dark supernovas, too. There's a good case to be made for some stars, very, very bright, luminous stars that just go and disappear out of the universe.

[Chuck Nice]

I've seen a video of that. I mean, an animation of it. It's scary, actually. It's like the whole thing gets flushed down its own toilet and there's nothing.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You know, like a snake eating itself.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, yeah, if you will.

[Michael Shara]

Except that it's not gone.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Michael Shara]

The black hole is still there.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Michael Shara]

And if you are a highly adventurous astronaut racing through the universe and you don't have the right sensors, you're going to go right down it, right down the throat of that snake that swallowed itself, and you're not even going to know it. It's just going to take you right down.

[Chuck Nice]

Which of these is responsible primarily for the heavy elements in the universe?

[Michael Shara]

Probably a combination of them.

[Chuck Nice]

Combination. Okay.

[Michael Shara]

So one kind of nova that we didn't mention before are kilonovas. And the reason that they're called kilonovas is because they're about a thousand times more energetic than a novice nova, which is about a million times the brightness of the sun. So these are about a billion times the brightness of the sun and a supernova, which is about a thousand times brighter than a kilonova. So you could call it a mega nova, except we call it a supernova. And then there are things that are 10 to 100 times brighter than that, and those are the hypernovas. And there's different mechanisms, different things that are going on in each case.

[Chuck Nice]

So. Wow. So, but you have that inventory so we can account for the elements in the universe.

[Michael Shara]

Yes, and we have a fear idea just by taking spectra, breaking up the light into all its components and measuring what's coming off in supernova remnants. How much iron, how much silicon, how much nickel is being produced in different kinds of supernovas. So certainly some of the core collapse supernovas are producing certain kinds of elements. Probably the collapse of the degenerate objects is producing much of the iron in the universe. And ordinary novas are probably producing a good fraction of the nitrogen in the universe. So every time you take a breath, you're breathing in some of the excreta. Every breath you take is some of the excreta of a nova.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Well, when you say it like that, not so pleasant. I wasn't going to say thanks, supernova.

[Chuck Nice]

But now I'M like, so what you got here?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right, here we go. Let's jump into it. This is from Dipen. Hello, Dr. Tyson, Dr. Shower, your lordship. First, we're taught that matter and neutron star stars is strange. Then we say that collision of neutron. Neutron stars creates heavy metals like gold and platinum. How are these normal metals created from strange matter?

[Michael Shara]

Great question. The answer is that while the matter inside a neutron star is at not just strange but insane sorts of densities, one with 13 or 14 zeros after it, grams per cubic centimeter. So quadrillions trillions or quadrillions of grams per cubic centimeter. Once the kilonova has exploded, maybe some of it fallen into a black hole, but some of it's been blown off, that expanding matter starts going down in density. And so the free neutrons inside the neutron star start combining with each other. Some of them start decaying into protons. Neutrons and protons combine to make nuclei. And that's how you get ordinary matter. Because you get out of the incredibly dense state inside the neutron star. You've escaped. You're free to become yourself. You're free to become golder.

[Chuck Nice]

Platinum.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's right, dad. Oh, that's very cool, man. Great question. All right. This is Stacy Hughes. Hello, all, this is Stacy Hughes from Nebraska. I have heard somewhere that large stars are going to stop being born before other stars. If that is true, how much sooner than the last stars dying out will the last supernova be? And what types of stars will be born after the last supernova? And will we still be here when that happens? Let me take that last part for you.

[Chuck Nice]

Don't look like it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So go ahead.

[Michael Shara]

Given the rate at which humans have been developing technologies capable of destroying all of us, I'm not sure I'd say we have maybe a 50, 50 chance.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Michael Shara]

Okay. But if we make it through the next century or two, maybe we'll get smart enough or maybe we'll disperse away from the Earth and be able to hang in there. Let me answer your question about the most massive stars. When we look out in the Milky Way galaxy, we see large clouds of gas and dust, including things we call giant molecular clouds. And these are the objects that give birth to new stars. And we see the same kinds of objects in nearby galaxies. And we can image them in great detail with the Hubble Space Telescope or the James Webb Space Telescope. And we see clusters of thousands of stars being born now throughout the Milky Way, throughout nearby galaxies. And there are almost always some really, really luminous, very, very massive stars in These youngest clusters, up to about 100 times the mass of the Sun. Okay, will this eventually stop? Well, we see galaxies where this has stopped, because when galaxies crash into each other and merge, most of the gas, the hydrogen gas, the stuff out of which stars is born, much of it is liberated. It's blown out of those galaxies. We're left behind with an elliptical galaxy that doesn't make many stars anymore. And so at some point, it's possible, in fact likely, that every galaxy in the universe that has hydrogen in it will have lost all or most of that hydrogen. And when that happens, star formation is going to ramp down and eventually stop billions of years into the future, but not right now. Will we be around billions of years in the future? No idea.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Come on.

[Michael Shara]

Can I tell you?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, I can.

[Chuck Nice]

I can tell you.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I can tell you right now.

[Chuck Nice]

You know you got the answer now.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I got the answer right now, Stacey. That's a great question, though. And these gas clouds that you see, are these the same as stellar nurseries? Is that what we.

[Michael Shara]

No, that's exactly right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, okay.

[Michael Shara]

The nearest prominent one, you can see it with the naked eye, is the Orion Nebula. Right underneath the three stars in the belt, there's this lovely glowing cloud.

[Chuck Nice]

And if you're in the Southern hemisphere, they're above the belt.

[Michael Shara]

That is true.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And there's so like us to hit below the belt.

[Michael Shara]

And there's one O star, one of those massive stars that's doing all the ionization, all the excitation. It is the guy that is responsible mostly for the central part of the Orion Nebula looking like it is. If it weren't there, it'd be a much less interesting thing to look at.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wow. That is super cool, man. All right, this is Christopher Peffers, and Christopher says hello. Dr. Shara, Dr. Tyson Lord. Nice. Chris Peppers here from Charleston, Indiana. Dr. Shara, you spent decades studying exploding stars and binary systems, some of the most extreme objects in the universe. For people who might think space is just empty and stupid, still, can you walk us through what happens in a closed binary system where one of the stars steals matter from another, eventually causing a supernova, a nova, or a. Or even a supernova? What does that cosmic drama look like? And should everyday people even care about these distant events? Do they help us understand our own sun? Or even where the elements that make up life on Earth come from? Thank you you for your work, sir. There it is.

[Michael Shara]

Well, first of all, it's my pleasure. I. I appreciate the pat on the back, sort of the verbal pat on the back.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Michael Shara]

I do it. The reason I. I've spent decades doing this is because I love it. Astronomy, in some sense, is my hobby. The fact that someone's willing to pay me to do it and to teach, that's the old about it.

[Chuck Nice]

Take your hobby. Make it a career.

[Michael Shara]

It's.

[Chuck Nice]

And you'll never.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Was it Right? Well, yes. You. You'll never be something. No.

[Chuck Nice]

You'll never work a day. That's it.

[Michael Shara]

And it's been. And in some sense, I haven't worked a day in my life because it's always been fun. It's always been great.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's pretty cool.

[Michael Shara]

I get to work with lots of bright young people doing their masters and PhDs and work with them all the time. So it's a glorious way to spend one's life. Okay, let's zoom in on one of these systems, one of these binary systems. And I'm going to pick a particular system that you're going to be able to see with your naked eye.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh.

[Michael Shara]

Next year or the year after.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Michael Shara]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right. Relatively short period of time.

[Chuck Nice]

I bet he's talking about T corn on Border House.

[Michael Shara]

And Neil is just thrown up.

[Chuck Nice]

Don't tell anybody. But I think.

[Michael Shara]

Exactly.

[Chuck Nice]

Quiet. And when he says it, just.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I will act. Surprise.

[Chuck Nice]

Act, Surprise. Okay. Yeah. So what is it?

[Michael Shara]

So there is a star called T Corona Borealis. Surprise. That is going to get brighter than the North Star, brighter than Polaris.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wow.

[Michael Shara]

Either tonight or tomorrow night or sometime in the next year or two.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, just. I have to jump in here.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

So I don't want to cast shade on how bright it's gonna get, but Polaris ain't that bright.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

Our North Star, which.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I've heard you say this even nine.

[Chuck Nice]

Out of 10 people, you say, what's the brightest north. They'll say North Star. It is not in the top 10. It's not in the top 20. It's not in the top 30. It's not even in the top 40.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, so I just put that out there right now. And the Corbore, what does that reference?

[Michael Shara]

Corona Borealis. Latin for a northern crown. And it is a constellation, a little grouping of stars that looks like a semicircle, a crown. Okay, gotcha.

[Chuck Nice]

Actually, a tiara would be that.

[Michael Shara]

That's a better term.

[Chuck Nice]

It wouldn't be, wouldn't it?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Exactly.

[Michael Shara]

Much better.

[Chuck Nice]

Now, so is there a. A crown in the Southern hemisphere, there is Corona Australis. Okay, good. So that's why you specify the Borealis.

[Michael Shara]

That is correct.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. Okay, so pick it, pick it up from there.

[Michael Shara]

We saw this star last erupt about 79 years ago. And then 80 years before that, we saw it erupt as a nova. And each time it became about second magnitude. And one of my colleagues, Brad Schaefer, has made a pretty good case for it having erupted 80 years before that. And then he even points out some possible evidence for an eruption in the 1200s. So this is a star. This is a recurrent nova.

[Chuck Nice]

Wait, nobody was looking up in the 1200s? They were just trying to not. Whatever.

[Michael Shara]

Not starve to death by dragons or. Not starve to death or die of the bubonic plague. No, no, no. There were people who actually did notice changing stars, things that were wild. And of course, there were no electric lights in those days.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You had a lot more stars to look at.

[Chuck Nice]

There were actually. Sorry. It was the 14th century, which was the only century where the population of the world was lower at the end than it was at the beginning from the bubonic plague and all of this.

[Michael Shara]

Black death will do it every time.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's why I can't stand that they called it the Black Death. Of course, the most deadly of deaths has to be the Black Death. No, go ahead. Okay, I'm being silly. Go ahead.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

No worries.

[Michael Shara]

So this star, this massive white dwarf, is cannibalizing its companion, which is in this case, a red giant star.

[Chuck Nice]

Authentic red giant.

[Michael Shara]

This is an authentic red giant.

[Chuck Nice]

Can you see both stars when you look at them or are they too far away?

[Michael Shara]

You can see neither. It is roughly 13th magnitude in quiescence. So if you look with a terrific pair of binoculars, you still can't see it. It, you need at least, if you want to see it with your naked eye or with your eye, you need at least say an 8 or a 10 inch telescope to be able to see it.

[Chuck Nice]

A really good backyard telescope would catch this.

[Michael Shara]

We'll see it when it's in quiescence and it's going to jump in brightness approximately 100,000 fold to reach roughly the brightness a little bit brighter probably than Polaris for a few hours and then it'll fade away. And then on a time scale of a week or two, you won't see it again. And you won't see it again for another 80 years.

[Chuck Nice]

So when I was in the Pacific Northwest, I took a photo of your star and I don't know if I got to show it to you. Did, I did ever show it to you? I think you might, because, you know, there was a chance it could have blown up while I was looking at it.

[Michael Shara]

Exactly.

[Chuck Nice]

And then I'd be the first to.

[Michael Shara]

Have seen it or at least have recorded it.

[Chuck Nice]

I'd have been the first out of the box on that one.

[Michael Shara]

Yep. Everyone wants to be the one to see it starting on its rise, of course. And so people have little charts and okay, there's T corona Boreal.

[Chuck Nice]

So somebody's watching this thing every night.

[Michael Shara]

Of course, someone is watching it basically every minute, 24 7.

[Chuck Nice]

Because half the world is dark at any given time. And we got people everywhere.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Of course you do.

[Michael Shara]

There are tens of thousands of so called amateur astronomers who are every bit as professional as professional astronomers in that community.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Go ahead.

[Chuck Nice]

It is a badge of honor to say I am an amateur astronomer. If you say that, you can ask them any question about the night sky and they'll have an answer Even some of my colleagues wouldn't know because they know the night sky. They're out there every night as I was when I was, you know, had my backyard telescope. Except my rooftop. There's no backyard in the Bronx. I was hauled to the roof.

[Michael Shara]

So the, the thing for me that is most exciting about T corona Borealis is that as a recurrent nova, it was predicted and there were only 10 recurrent novae known in the whole Milky Way. About a decade ago, it was predicted that boom. You blow off a shell of matter, then 80 years later, boom. You blow off another shell. Another, another, another. The stuff doesn't all come off at the same speed. Some of it comes off at high speed, some at a lower speed. So what that means is when the next shell goes off, someone's gonna overcome.

[Chuck Nice]

It's gonna. The fast stuff is gonna overtake the slow stuff.

[Michael Shara]

Bingo. So you're gonna have shells colliding with each other.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Shells colliding? Jerry, no. That's amazing.

[Michael Shara]

And so it's gonna be a traffic pile up. It's like, you know, one car running into another. And if that's right, that hasn't just been happening for 80 or 160 or 240 or 320 years. It's been going on for thousands or tens of thousands of years. Which means you've got hundreds or thousands of shells piled up on top of each other. That means you should have a super shell, a super remnant surrounding T corona.

[Chuck Nice]

Borealis, where it's all, where the fastest stuff is plowed onto itself, bulldozed its way through.

[Michael Shara]

But that's not all. Wait, wait, there's more. Because as that shell builds up in mass, it's also acting like a snowplow, plowing up all the stuff in the interstellar medium in front of it.

[Chuck Nice]

The stuff that's there anyway as bystanders.

[Michael Shara]

Is going to get mowed over and is going to be incorporated into that super shell. So there should be a super duper shel it. And we've just found it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, he buried the lead.

[Michael Shara]

You heard it here. So we've been using a gorgeous new, not expensive telescope. Oh, the kind of telescope that so called amateurs use, refracting telescopes, six of them bolted together in parallel. And we stared at T Corona borealis for about 100 hours.

[Chuck Nice]

They're not in darkness for 100 hours. I just want to make that clear. They get the dark stuff tonight, they.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Close the hatch and then tomorrow night.

[Chuck Nice]

Pick it up again. Back at it. Okay, back at it. Okay, go.

[Michael Shara]

And so we actually have thousands of images taken over more than 100 nights of T Corona Borealis. And we add up all those images and we took pictures through filters that only transmit the light from hydrogen, only transmit the light that comes from nitrogen ions, sulfur ions and so on. And we found a super shell surrounding T Corona Borealis that's about three times the diameter of the full moon.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's fabulous.

[Michael Shara]

So it is a degree and a half on the sky. And you might then think, well, when T Corona Borealis goes off, it's going to be like a flashbulb going off in the room. In a room full of little mirrors. It's going to be like Christmas lights going off as this flash of light.

[Chuck Nice]

Propagates outwards, echoes off the material.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's super shell.

[Michael Shara]

One would hope that that would be true.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's amazing.

[Michael Shara]

It's probably not.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh no.

[Michael Shara]

So the downer is we published in a paper that just came out a couple of months ago saying there's not going to be fluorescence.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Michael Shara]

So the atoms themselves are not going to light up because they're too far apart. There aren't enough of them that it's not going to be bright enough to detect. Now maybe, just maybe, if there was dust, little grains of silicon and carbon and other what we call refractory elements, high temperature stuff, little grains that were tossed out in the last nova eruption the 180 years ago. Those might reflect enough light for us to see as a light echo. And you know that a day or two or three after this goes off, the Hubble Space Telescope is going to get pointed at, at the James Webb space.

[Chuck Nice]

Very good about that. Something happens, everybody comes together. We are the Most. We are the most come together.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Always about a collabo. Always.

[Chuck Nice]

Especially since not every telescope will observe it in the same way.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

So you get a different kinds of data coming together.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I always say the only people to collaborate more than rappers are astrophysicists.

[Chuck Nice]

So, Mike, on my iPhone, I controlled a digital telescope when I was in the Pacific Northwest. Didn't even leave the comforts of the living room when I did this. See, he, he's, he's old school. He's like, what, you didn't like, ascend the mountain?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You. You did not suffer for that image.

[Michael Shara]

I've been up in the prime focus cage of telescopes for nights at a time.

[Chuck Nice]

Tell me about. On your rocking chair. Exactly. Right, right, right. So this image, I found it, but it was behind a very mottled tree. And so the digital telescope tracks it, but so the tree ends up blurred as it's tracking the actual object. So it looks. It's a very undistinguished dot on my picture.

[Michael Shara]

Had you caught it near its maximum, you would basically have saturated the image.

[Chuck Nice]

Image. Yeah.

[Michael Shara]

All of the image would be just one bright point of light.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wow.

[Chuck Nice]

But there's no saturation anymore because this knows what it's doing. It takes 10 second images.

[Michael Shara]

Yes.

[Chuck Nice]

And then stacks them.

[Michael Shara]

Right?

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. In the old days.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Overexposed. Yeah. Right now you don't have that problem. You're getting all separate images and add.

[Chuck Nice]

Them and you get it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Keep going.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right. Keep going, man. This is really cool stuff.

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[Kristen Bell]

Hi, I'm Kristen Bell and if you know my husband Dax, then you also know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car, not so much.

[Michael Shara]

We're really doing this, huh?

[Kristen Bell]

Thankfully, Carvana makes it easy. Answer a few questions, put in your van or license, and done. We sold ours in minutes this morning and they'll come pick it up and pay us this afternoon.

[Michael Shara]

Goodbye, Truckee.

[Kristen Bell]

Of course, we kept the favorite.

[Michael Shara]

Hello, other truckee.

[Kristen Bell]

Sell your car with Carvana today. Terms and conditions apply.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

This is Joel Bradley and Joel says greeting Dr. Tyson, Dr. Shower Lord. Nice. Joel here from Geelong, Australia, and I have a question regarding our favorite pre supernova star, Beetlejuice. Whilst I understand that life of a star is extremely long from our perspective, how is the time frame for Beetlejuice going to supernova between now and 100,000 years? Is there any sign that will warn us of it happening in our lifetime? Or will, will we just look up one night and go, oh, wow, look.

[Michael Shara]

At that, There it was. There it is.

[Chuck Nice]

What's the life expectancy of Betelgeuse from birth to death?

[Michael Shara]

Something like, well, the star itself, you consider the main sequence lifetime probably a few million years.

[Chuck Nice]

Got it.

[Michael Shara]

Okay, so it was hydrogen burning for a good fraction of its lifetime. Maybe a million years, maybe 2, 3 million years.

[Chuck Nice]

When it's astrophysicists speaking. Means hydrogen fusion, right?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Of course.

[Michael Shara]

So Beetlejuice was initially as a very massive star, fusing hydrogen into helium. Then it left the main sequence, ascended the red, and then the red supergiant branches.

[Chuck Nice]

Ran out of hydrogen.

[Michael Shara]

Ran out of hydrogen, needed to do something else, needed a new source of energy, otherwise it was going to collapse. The core got dense enough and hot enough for helium to start fusing into carbon.

[Chuck Nice]

And helium has two protons in its nucleus. Oh, now you gotta get two protons connected. Two protons. You gotta be hotter than whatever you were for hydrogen.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Look at that.

[Michael Shara]

Typically you've gotta be in the hundred million degree range instead of the 20 million degree range in order for that to happen. Okay, so it is really hot down there in the core of Betelgeuse. Betelgeuse has only got, probably in the best case, 100,000 years to go, but it might be tomorrow.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, that's a really bad prediction. Listen, can you do better than that?

[Michael Shara]

Fifty years ago, the prediction would have been, we don't know why it's a red supergiant.

[Chuck Nice]

So.

[Michael Shara]

So we have gotten a lot better. Okay, yes, we would love to do better. And the answer is if you should.

[Chuck Nice]

We should appreciate how far we've come.

[Michael Shara]

If you.

[Chuck Nice]

Even in our ignorance.

[Michael Shara]

If you give me enough money, I will build a detector that will tell you several days in advance when it's going to go off.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Nice.

[Michael Shara]

And what is that detector going to be? Well, it's going to be the biggest, baddest neutrino detector that's ever been. Been built on Earth. Right. Now, we've been super clever. We, meaning physicists collectively, not me, have built enormous detectors using cubic miles of seawater or, or ice. The Ice Cube detector, for example, in Antarctica. In Antarctica. And a gorgeous detector right near Sicily, a huge underwater detector.

[Chuck Nice]

And the rapper Ice Cube goes down there and performs for the scientists. Not.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Not.

[Michael Shara]

But if we could build a detector that was, say, oh, a thousand times the volume. So instead of a mile by a mile by a mile, we'd love to build something that was 10 miles by 10 miles by, by a, by a few miles at least. We'd have a thousand times the sensitivity. Now, why do I care about neutrinos? Well, as the star is right near the end of its lifetime and just about to flash off, it's not just going to burn.

[Chuck Nice]

Do you see the light?

[Michael Shara]

Do you see the light?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah.

[Michael Shara]

It's going to burn the carbon into magnesium, the magnesium into heavier elements, all the way up to iron. And you're going to get a great flux of neutrinos coming out of the core of the star in the last few hours, maybe days of the life of the star, certainly in the last couple of minutes. And then during the implosion, you're going to get another blast of neutrinos. So these will come out of the star before anything else.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, but they're not going the speed of light.

[Michael Shara]

They're not. Doesn't matter. And the reason it doesn't matter is that Betelgeuse isn't that far away. We're talking hundreds of light years. We're not Talking millions or billions of light years away. And as a result, the difference between the speed of the neutrinos, which is very fast, which is very 99.9 many nines the percent, the speed of light, the difference in speed between the neutrinos and the gravitational radiation, okay, that will be.

[Chuck Nice]

And that's called the speed of light.

[Michael Shara]

That is moving exactly at the same time.

[Chuck Nice]

And we have something that could detect that if it happens.

[Michael Shara]

We have several detectors, at least three up and operating now, that are going to detect those gravitational waves.

[Chuck Nice]

Are they all collectively ligo, or is it just the American ones called ligo?

[Michael Shara]

They're collectively called the ligo, and each one of them has its own name. For example, the Italian one is referred to as Virgo. But the ligo, if you will, the LIGO assembly is the three telescopes.

[Chuck Nice]

We get the gravitational waves and they will come at the same speed as the explosive light.

[Michael Shara]

I presume they're going to precede the light.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, because you have the collapse.

[Michael Shara]

You have the collapse, and then you got to expand again to get big enough to have a photosphere, a radiating surface big enough. So it's going to be tens of minutes to tens of hours before you see it in the optical.

[Chuck Nice]

This is going to be a amazing. You'll see them right one, right after another, each of these, the sequence of events.

[Michael Shara]

So we're going to see the gravitational radiation and the neutrinos arriving almost simultaneously. We may get lucky and see a few of the early neutrinos coming a few seconds or minutes early. That would be just in the last gasps of, oh, I'm, I'm just, I'm finished my carbon burning. I'm going to do my magnesium burning. That didn't help me. I'm gonna do my, my silicon burn. That helped me even less. I'm gonna do my iron burning. So you get more and more frantic.

[Chuck Nice]

I've never seen you imitate a star before. That was good. That was pretty good.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That was a dying star right there.

[Chuck Nice]

And so, because what he's doing is the star's trying to not die, right? And so it's finding, just finding everything.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It can do that it can do.

[Chuck Nice]

And if it can't, if it's not enough, it's gonna collapse on down.

[Michael Shara]

And so maybe in that last minute we'll start seeing a neutrino here, another one, another one, another one, and then tens of thousands of them arriving. And that's going to be the harbinger that's going to tell us supernova coming, supernovas coming from there, that direction. If we have all three detectors, you.

[Chuck Nice]

Can triangulate back on that.

[Michael Shara]

We can triangulate to about plus or minus a degree, you know, a little bit more than the area of the full moon on the sky.

[Chuck Nice]

But how many supernova progenitors are in the area of a full moon on the sky?

[Michael Shara]

We typically get, you know, I mean, in a, in a square degree, We've got millions and millions of stars. You don't know which one it is. But if you triangulate back to that one square degree where Beetlejuice is.

[Chuck Nice]

Beetlejuice in the middle of the thing.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Chuck Nice]

That's pretty much.

[Michael Shara]

Turn on your alarms.

[Chuck Nice]

How bright will Beetlejuice get? Cause it's already bright. It's like, what is it? It's 0th magnitude or something. What is it?

[Michael Shara]

Maybe minus, minus 1, maybe something like that? It's certainly one of the 15, 20 brightest stars in the sky.

[Chuck Nice]

Way brighter than the North Star once again.

[Michael Shara]

Right. So right now, currently, it's maybe a million times. Yes, the luminosity of the sun, but it's going to go to at least 10 billion times. It's going to get at least 10,000 times brighter.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wow.

[Chuck Nice]

Which means 15 magnitudes be visible in the daytime.

[Michael Shara]

It's. Oh, it's, it's certainly going to be a daytime thing.

[Chuck Nice]

It's going to compete with the full moon for brightness. Probably cast your shadow. Oh, my gosh, Joel.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

There you have it, my friend. If you have a neutrino detector, you will know exactly when this is going. You'll know first if you get the neutrinos and you get the gravitational waves at the same time. Just know. Elizabeth, I'm coming to join you, honey. Betelgeuse is about to kick the bucket and you can watch it.

[Michael Shara]

So that's one good piece of news. I mean, you. You're headed in absolutely the right direction. I don't want you scaring anyone, though, okay? You don't need to go down to your basement or your sub basement, because even though there are going to be lots of high energy neutrinos coming and whacking you, none of them's going to hurt you. There aren't going to be enough gamma rays to fry our ozone layer or.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Make you the whole, or make you.

[Michael Shara]

The Hulk or give you a sunburn. So don't worry about that kind of stuff. It's just going to be something ultra cool that you can walk out and see something that really nobody has seen since the 1600s. We had two supernovas, almost Kepler had one.

[Chuck Nice]

Was that how bright was Kepler's supernova?

[Michael Shara]

It was also the same kind of brightness, maybe not quite as bright as.

[Chuck Nice]

That in the daytime.

[Michael Shara]

It was seen in the daytime, probably for a month or two, but I gotta go check that out.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So let me ask you both of this then. The most famous star in the night sky and also reportedly shown during the day, the star of Bethlehem. Do we have any real record of what that was?

[Chuck Nice]

Go and ask the Jewish man about the star of Bethlehem.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Go ahead.

[Michael Shara]

So my forefathers did not draw a diagram or a map of where it was. In fact, this only appears in the New Testament, right. As a star in the east.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Star in the east.

[Michael Shara]

You know, that's a little too vague.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Huh? You think? A little too vague, huh?

[Chuck Nice]

A little, yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Gotcha.

[Michael Shara]

And so what can we do that is maybe better? Well, we can go back to the people, that's all.

[Chuck Nice]

That's the best info available.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's it.

[Michael Shara]

Well, we can try and cross correlate it. Because while the astronomers in the ancient holy land were not quite up to the task, there were three sets of astronomers who were up to the task and really were doing their jobs on a night by night basis. And these are the images. Imperial astrologers of China, Japan and Korea.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Michael Shara]

Who were looking at the sky every night as harbingers.

[Chuck Nice]

Either anything good or bad. Yeah.

[Michael Shara]

Good or evil.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Michael Shara]

Because clearly the gods were up there and the emperor was a demigod. So whatever was happening to the gods was affecting the emperor. So we'd better watch out really carefully and write down what was going on. And so from about 300 BC, but certainly from 0 BC onwards, there are pretty good nightly records in all three kingdoms. And the star of 1054, the what's today, the Crab Supernova, is the Crab Nebula. The Crab Nebula is detailed in great detail, wonderful detail in all three kingdoms records.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wow.

[Michael Shara]

So we know all about it.

[Chuck Nice]

So we know that it took place on July 4th AD 1054. And astrophysicists to this day celebrate with fireworks. I just want you to see us launching fireworks. That's what, that's what's going down.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's so funny.

[Michael Shara]

So you'd like to look for a.

[Chuck Nice]

So they would have had records for.

[Michael Shara]

Sure if there had been a really bright supernova or a really bright nova, anything.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, sure.

[Michael Shara]

A bright nova. A nova that's only say 100 light years away. And there are stars that are capable of becoming Novas only 100 light years away. That is an easy star that can become brighter than Venus. So not quite a middle of the day scary, a half to death brightness, but still pretty bright. So you gotta go look really carefully at the Chinese, Japanese and Korean records from say minus 10 to plus 10, you know, AD. And there is no good candidate.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And there's no good candidate. Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. Wow. By the way, planetariums historically always had a Christmas show of the star of Bethlehem. And was it a planetary alignment? Was it Venus, Was it this, was it that? But it really wasn't any of those. Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And that's kind of a disappointing ending to a planetarium show.

[Chuck Nice]

But we got so sick of the show. I mean, it was just not. There was no science in it.

[Michael Shara]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

And so in the. In the parlance of planta, you know what we call it?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The war on Christmas.

[Chuck Nice]

No, no, it was tradition. People come to see that and they go to the Rockettes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Chuck Nice]

And that was. That would be the holiday thing.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That makes sense.

[Chuck Nice]

No, but it became the SOB show.

[Michael Shara]

Standing for Star Bethlehem.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

There you go.

[Michael Shara]

So we now have the technology, astronomers now have the technology to once and for all answer the question.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Michael Shara]

And I'm going to tell you how you heard it here first.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right.

[Michael Shara]

Using the kind of telescope I described, the one that found the star.

[Chuck Nice]

Which question are we answering now?

[Michael Shara]

Was there a star?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Bet?

[Michael Shara]

Was there a transient? Was there a bright nova or supernova?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Michael Shara]

Within, say, 10 years of 0ad?

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Michael Shara]

And we can actually answer that question now quite definitively. And within five to 10 years. Certainly within 10 years, we're going to be able to give you that answer quite definitively, because you could, because you.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Are looking right now, because you're going to.

[Chuck Nice]

If it was something that exploded, you'd be able to see the remnant that's 2,000 years old.

[Michael Shara]

And we're going to be able to track the expansion.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes.

[Michael Shara]

And then track the expansion backwards.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Michael Shara]

To see when it's.

[Chuck Nice]

You will know.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You will know for a fact.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, my gosh.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And see, this is the cool thing about astrophysics because it comes with receipts. You know what I mean? You cannot. This is Cicero Artif. What a cool name, Cicero.

[Chuck Nice]

We've had Cicero before.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

We've had him before.

[Chuck Nice]

Unless there's more than one Cicero out there, but I doubt it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

There ain't no shouldn't be Cicero, Artif, that's for sure. Hi, Dr. Tyson. Dr. Shower. Lord. Nice. Cicero. Artifon here from the cold lands of Toronto, Canada. We use these incredibly bright supernovae as standard candles. To figure out how far away galaxies are. But it feels a bit counterintuitive, doesn't it? How can something so incredibly distant, and that happened so long ago, act as a reliable measuring tape for the cosmos? What's the ingenious method that allows us to use these far off stellar explosions to gauge such immense distances?

[Michael Shara]

That's a terrific question. These are the so called type 1A supernovae.

[Chuck Nice]

You weren't happy with just two types of supernova, were you?

[Michael Shara]

We had to subtype and subType the type 1As are the magical supernovae that give us astronomers a yardstick. We want to know how far away something is so that we don't just see how bright it is, but how energetic it is. We can turn brightness into energy, into physical units.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Michael Shara]

And the type 1A's are something that we call standard candles, or equivalently standard hundred watt light bulbs.

[Chuck Nice]

Their candles were quite honored that we use them in this reference.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes, they did.

[Chuck Nice]

And they, it's very classical. Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Since they really suck as a light source, they should be honored. But go ahead.

[Michael Shara]

Well, the, the standard candle was made out of whale blubber.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Whale blubber.

[Michael Shara]

Certain size.

[Chuck Nice]

The oil lamps.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, I take it back then because believe it or not, those actually burn pretty evenly in.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, if you have a big enough wick.

[Michael Shara]

That was the point. The beautiful thing about type 1A supernovas is not that they are really all exactly the same intrinsic luminosity, but because we're able to measure the distances to some galaxies with, with other tools that we believe in very firmly, especially the Cepheid variable stars. And now the so called tip of the red giant branch stars. We have a few hundred galaxies whose distances we know with great accuracy nearby. Nearby. Out to perhaps 50 million light years.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, that's nearby. Okay, 50 million light years.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Let's go there tomorrow.

[Michael Shara]

And we see type 1A supernovas going off there. And we can measure their light curves, their brightness as a function of time, very precisely. And then we put them on the same graph and we see that the brighter ones also last longer. But when we collapse them down to the same width, in other words, if we just shrink them digitally, both in brightness and in width, they all lie right on top of each other. So they are standardizable candles. Standardizable 100 watt light bulbs, that makes that great. So the thing we can measure easily is how long they take to fade. And then we use that how long they take to fade information to crunch down the light curve onto the standard light curve and Then we can look at supernovas that are 10 or 20 times further away than the furthest Cepheid. And that's how we can step way outside our backyard.

[Chuck Nice]

So it relies on the nearby calibrations basically to trust what the extrapolation is going to be.

[Michael Shara]

And then you get far enough out to say good grief. We thought the Hubble constant meant that the universe was always expanding at the same rate. Everything is cool, it ain't so, right? We have a change, we have an acceleration in the expansion of the universe. Where did that come from? Who ordered it? The so called dark energy, right. We have no idea what it is, why it's there, etc, etc, but it seems to be there. And that's because of the type 1A.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Supernatural because, you know, because of your standardized candle system that it works all the way out to here. It's just that when you got to that point beyond that, that's when things change. Well, something had to change because everything else going coming from this point forward to us still works.

[Michael Shara]

Everything still works. The physics is.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Physics works.

[Chuck Nice]

But it allows us to implicate the universe and not just standard candle.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's the point. Yeah, that's amazing.

[Michael Shara]

And to answer the second part of the question, how did the universe figure out to do something like this? It turns out to be these wonderful white dwarfs. These collapsed objects actually have a maximum possible mass. They can't get more than about 1.4 times the mass of the Sun. If they do, then the gravitational forces within cannot be resisted by any pressure force without. And so there is a magic number.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

They actually calibrate themselves for you. There you go. That's amazing.

[Chuck Nice]

There you go.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh my God. Size is so crazy.

[Chuck Nice]

No, no, no, think about it. Because if the white dwarf would blow its blow up at different masses, right?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You don't know, you don't know what you're looking at.

[Chuck Nice]

But everybody blowing up at the same.

[Michael Shara]

Mass, it's just a little bit more complicated than that. But here's the one caveat I was.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Proud for a second.

[Michael Shara]

Because you can have two white dwarfs, a binary white dwarf merge, and then you can be anywhere between 1.4 and 2.8 times the mass.

[Chuck Nice]

So that would still count as a.

[Michael Shara]

1A supernova, that'll still count as a 1A. And that's why you have brighter ones and fainter ones and shorter decay times and longer decay times because you have the little guys at the one a 1.4 and the bright bright guy is a 2.8.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, okay.

[Michael Shara]

And we've learned how to calibrate for that.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

Little extra composition like since I've been in graduate school. I don't think we knew that back in my day. Nope. Right now. So my little contribution to this.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Go ahead.

[Chuck Nice]

I am last author on a paper.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

Last but not least last author on a paper. The first author was Brian Schmidt.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Michael Shara]

Nobel prize winner.

[Chuck Nice]

Nobel prize winner for co discovering the dark energy with supernova type 1. As I'm on one of his supernova papers where very proud of this. It is a supernova whose light curve does not fit the light curve of other supernova that it's supposed to until you invoke the expanding universe time dilation on its light curve.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

There you go.

[Chuck Nice]

And then when you de. Then when you mathematically remove the time dilation of the light curve, it falls right back on cue.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Super cool.

[Chuck Nice]

So you get its distance and its speed with which it's receding and that rate stretches out the light curve. And so it was the first paper to demonstrate that that. And now it's a routine correction that you make. So.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So let me just see if I got this right. The stretching of space.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Is really what makes the difference.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes. And the stretching of space also stretches the time. The. The time frame. That's correct.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's why you smart man.

[Chuck Nice]

15 other authors on it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Michael Shara]

They were all brave because the first time you publish something, something wildly different from what anyone else has ever seen, there's always this little nagging voice in the back of your mind. Did I screw up somewhere? Am I going to be a lack.

[Chuck Nice]

Of this interesting result of me screwing up? Right, right. Right. Because if it matched other results, you all couldn't have screwed up in the same way. Right. So just to be clear about the timing. So if you are receding and you're sending one pulse per second, let's say. But you're receding, the next pulse will not get to you after a second. It's a little longer.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Exactly.

[Chuck Nice]

Because you're now farther than when you hit sent the first pulse. And so that in a timed light curve will stretch out the light curve. That's all.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No.

[Chuck Nice]

And so this got corrected for. And there.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I mean you say it like it's nothing but I mean that's pretty elegant if you think about it.

[Chuck Nice]

I mean, and he went on and got a bunch of these and got the Nobel Prize. That was it.

[Michael Shara]

Deservedly so.

[Chuck Nice]

I didn't get an invitation to the number.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, well, listen, it's in the mail.

[Chuck Nice]

Michael. I think we have to quit it there.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wow, that was great, man.

[Chuck Nice]

I mean, you, You. You're such a good talker. We didn't get to as many questions as we might.

[Michael Shara]

Sorry about that.

[Chuck Nice]

But they were good questions.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, they were great questions and great, great answers, and I learned a lot, so. Well, this is. This is. I. I don't. I can. I can. Actually, tonight when I take my edible, I can think about all of this. I can think about all of this. And really just, like, marinate.

[Michael Shara]

Just before you do, though, I want you to check whether t core borer has exploded.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I'll do that before you look out your window because I'll check my neutrino detector.

[Michael Shara]

Otherwise, you may see three or four T core bores.

[Chuck Nice]

All right, thanks. Friend and colleague, Michael Shara.

[Michael Shara]

Great pleasure. Thank you, Chuck.

[Chuck Nice]

Good to have you, man.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Always a pleasure.

[Chuck Nice]

All right. This has been yet another episode of Stark Cosmic Queries, the Exploding stars edition. Oh, yeah. Neil degrasse Tyson, bidding you, as always, to keep looking up.

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