
What’s the true color of the sun? Neil deGrasse Tyson and comic co-host Chuck Nice discuss things you thought you knew about the color of the Sun, the sound of weather, and why friction is our friend.
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Neil deGrasse Tyson
Hey, everybody. In the start talkiverse, we've got yet another things you thought you knew episode. This time, Chuck and I get into the color of the sun, weather, acoustics and friction. Check it out. Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right. Right now. Welcome to the explainer zone.
Chuck Nice
Yes. The explainer zone.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah, yeah. Not the Twilight Zone.
Chuck Nice
Not the Twilight Zone.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
We are confused at the end. The explainer zone, where you come out knowing more than you give when you know some stuff. Right. And so I. I think there's no end to this, just so you know. Good. I will. I'll be calling you forever. All right, so I want to talk about the sun, the color of the sun. Okay.
Chuck Nice
All right, well, you know me. I don't see color.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You don't see color.
Chuck Nice
Sorry, we're already done here.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So. So. So here's the thing. If you're a school child and you to draw a scene and you want to put the sun in the sky, what crayon do you reach for?
Chuck Nice
Well, I was a very depressed child, so. Black.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Black. Okay. No, you. You knew about black holes back then?
Chuck Nice
Yes, exactly. No. Oh, it's always a big yellow ball.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's always yellow. And this is. This notion has been with us since childhood that the sun is yellow.
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And that's not true. It's not even close to being true. Uh, oh, and so, yeah, I'm sorry, you know, I don't want to. Oh, you said.
Chuck Nice
Are there any kids watching? Please.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You might want to leave the.
Chuck Nice
Room right now because we're not sure if there's a Crayola available for you to draw your little scenes with the house and the grass and the pool.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Here's the thing. The sun in broad daylight is too bright to look at, all right? Without risking damaging your eyes. So, no.
Chuck Nice
Unless, of course, you have perfect eyes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay, so. So you don't do it. All right, so when is the time most people ever find themselves looking directly at the sun? When is that?
Chuck Nice
Well, the only times I've ever done it is sunset and sunrise.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Exactly. Exactly. So not only do we have the yellow crayon in our crayon box from childhood, anytime we actually ever find ourselves looking at the sun, either on purpose or by accident, it's low on the horizon. The sun is rising or setting, and it has a deep yellow color. Sometimes it's so deep, it can be red. Amber into red.
Chuck Nice
Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So. And we know the sun isn't red. Of course it's not red. We know that's.
Chuck Nice
This isn't Krypton.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's not Krypton. Exactly. What? They're red. It had a red sun, so you know intuitively it's not red. But somehow you don't know intuitively that it's also not yellow. Okay, what color is the sun? It is white.
Chuck Nice
Now, come on, man. Why you gotta do that?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
White.
Chuck Nice
See?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
What?
Chuck Nice
Just like everything else all of a.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Sudden, Chuck, not everything. We gotta race commentary.
Chuck Nice
You know what? Seriously, we gotta. Must we whitewash all of history, including the sun?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Really? So, yeah, so it's not yellow.
Chuck Nice
Okay?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's not yellow. Now, I can give you evidence of this if you need evidence, but I'm simply saying that as the sun gets warmer, look at Earth. And there's the atmosphere wrapped around the Earth. If the sun is directly overhead or anywhere near directly overhead, it goes through sort of. Let's call that one thickness of atmosphere, okay? Top to bottom. As the sun gets lower and lower in the sky, the path of light through the atmosphere is longer, okay? Because now you got. There's that angle through it. And the lower the sun gets on the sky, the more and more atmosphere it has to pass through. And in fact, we. You can calculate how many equivalent atmospheres it went through. Okay? And you just need a little bit of trigonometry. It's a simple calculation. And if it's low on the horizon, it goes through 5 6, 10 equivalent atmospheres.
Chuck Nice
Gotcha.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
When it's low on the horizon. So whatever the atmosphere is doing to the sun when it's high up overhead, it's doing it 10 times that and more when it goes lower on the horizon. Okay? Okay. So let's see what the atmosphere is doing when the sun is overhead. In comes white light, okay? And white light is composed of colors, as Isaac Newton demonstrated. All the colors of the rainbow, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, if you must, violet, violet. Okay? So in it comes particles in Earth's atmosphere that happen to be the same size as the wavelength of light of the blue side of the spectrum. The blue, indigo, purple, violet side of the spectrum. Those particles preferentially scatter the blue out of the sunlight. Preferentially scatters it. So it subtracts away a little bit. Just a little bit. All right? The rest of the light makes it all the way to Earth's surface, but some of the blue gets scattered. And that's why we have a blue sky.
Chuck Nice
Nice.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
The blue sky is stolen sunlight that would have otherwise passed straight through.
Chuck Nice
Look at that. Right? Because the sky is really clear.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Right? Okay, so now watch.
Chuck Nice
How beautiful is that?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Now let's have the sun get a little lower in the sky. Well, there'll be more of this going on. Okay? More of the sky. That's why on cloudless days, into sunset, the sun gets deeper and deeper and deeper. Blue, the bluest sky. That's why sky blue is light blue.
Chuck Nice
Right?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
All right, you want to talk about Sirius? Right? Home to Mama. Blue is the blue sky that surrounds the twilight curtain of a sunset. Now you're talking blue, right? Okay. So so much blue is taken out that we now, Roy G. Biv. Red, orange, yellow, green, blue. You took out blue, indigo, violet, what's left? Red, orange, yellow, green. Okay? If you add those colors together, you're going to get an amber sun. And depending on how many particles there are, you'll get a red sun or you'll get a simple yellow sun on the horizon. And so you now look and say, oh, we have a yellow star. Look, it's yellow. No, the atmosphere made it yellow, okay? It's lying to you. And if you. So here's what you do. Broad daylight, if there's thin cirrus clouds, okay? So it's safer to look up to the sun. Look up to the sun in the middle of the day. Is it yellow?
Chuck Nice
No.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
No, it is white.
Chuck Nice
This is very disturbing.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's white.
Chuck Nice
This is very, very disturbing.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Because the clouds themselves don't change the color of the sun. It just dims it. So you look at a slightly dimmer sun behind the thin clouds as they pass. It's not yellow. It's not yellow. Not only that, consider the following. All right, now, this takes a little extra thinking. Put your thinking cap on.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And in another explainer, we address this. But now there's a different reason for it. If I have a sheet of paper and it's white, that means light reflected from it is an even mixture. An equal mixture of red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet. All those colors together in optics makes white. Don't tell this to an artist.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It doesn't work on the ease.
Chuck Nice
No, it's just the opposite in art. Just the opposite.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You don't get black, but you'll get, like, sludge.
Chuck Nice
You'll get sludge. Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
All right, so. So the fact that the page is white means all of those colors of light are hitting that page. Correct. So that when they reflect up, you see white. Okay. So a white light illuminating a white piece of paper shows up to you as a white piece of paper.
Chuck Nice
There you go.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. Now white reflects all colors. Let me put a red gel in front of the light. Now look at the paper. What color is it?
Chuck Nice
It's red.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's red.
Chuck Nice
Kind of pinkish, but.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah, that's right. So it reflects all colors, but now it's only getting red. It's going to reflect the red. It reflects all colors. The page is red.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Your eye. Let's put a blue gel. What happens to the page? The page is blue.
Chuck Nice
Same thing. Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay, so if the sun were yellow, then snow would be yellow.
Chuck Nice
Which, by the way, sometimes snow is yellow and it's not from the sun. And whatever you do, whatever you do, stay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Don't eat the yellow snow.
Chuck Nice
Stay away from that snow.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
The fact that snow looks white.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Is evidence that it's being illuminated by white light. Wow. That white light is either sunlight or a moonlight. That's right.
Chuck Nice
Which is also a reflection of sunlight.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's just reflected sunlight. There you go.
Chuck Nice
This is so disturbing. So disturbing.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So I'm just trying to be honest. I'm just trying to put it out there and just. And by the way, let me take. You want to go up a notch? Are you ready to go up a notch on this?
Chuck Nice
I don't know if I'm ready to go up a notch.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I don't think you're ready. Okay. So white is the sun.
Chuck Nice
Hate where this is going already.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Relative to incandescent bulbs.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. Your Kids will have no memory of incandescent bulbs. But old timers, if you're over 25, you're an old timer, you remember bulbs that would get hot when you put them in.
Chuck Nice
It was a bulb with a little piece of wire in it. Okay, that wire used to light up.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That sounds like a Ken Burns special. The other guy on the porch, Right.
Chuck Nice
I remember the days when it had a bulb with a little piece of wire in it. Now, that wire would light up and get hot.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
We pulled a switch.
Chuck Nice
We pulled the switch and it gave off light. Now, first, it looked like magic.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay, we gotta put you on the list of the next Ken Burns special. Origin of the light bulb. So. All right, so where was. And I forgot what.
Chuck Nice
Okay, he's saying incandescent bulbs.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay, Incandescent bulbs. Incandescent bulbs. When you turn them on, the temperature of the filament is not as high as the temperature of the surface of the sun. And so the higher the temperature, the more full that spectrum becomes. So if you looked at the spectrum of a bulb in your house, an incandescent bulb, it's very weak in the blue section. There's some blue there, which is why blue still looks blue under that light. But the blue is very weak under an incandescent light bulb. Okay? So if you bring out film that needs the full complement of blue, and you take a picture under incandescent lights, everything is going to be red. That film, if it needed the blue, is called daylight film. This is why there was a difference. Again, I'm only talking to old timers here. There was indoor film and outdoor film, tungsten film and outdoor film. And the outdoor film was color balanced to get the entire spectrum of the sunlight. If you took indoor film and put it outside, that indoor film is too sensitive to blue because it's making up for the feeble blue coming out of a bulb. And it goes out, and it's getting all the blue it ever wanted. If you have indoor film, took a picture outside, everything looks blue because it was hypersensitive to blue, and the sun has plenty of it. Okay? So to a photographer, sunlight is blue. It's highly blue. And they have to correct for that. If they're going from indoors to outdoors, they have to redo the color balance on a white sheet of paper to account for the difference between indoor lighting and outdoor lighting. Now, here's where they all got it wrong. But they're not going to change it because they're deep into it. You ready? Now we have the blending of science and Technology with art. You ready? Here it is. If an artist draws an arctic scene, what color is prevalent? White. And what color?
Chuck Nice
Blue. Blue, Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
If an artist draws Dante's hell, what color is prevalent?
Chuck Nice
Red and orange.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Red and orange. Okay, so emotional. We think of blue as cold and red as hot. Photographers will tell you we need to reduce the temperature of the light, which means make it colder emotionally. But the only way to do that is to get more blue in it, which means upping the temperature of the tungsten that they have shining on you. Or to put more blue into it. And in the old days that meant a hotter light bulb. So they said we need a cooler scene, they had to have a hotter bulb. We need a warmer scene. They had to have a colder bulb to do that.
Chuck Nice
Wow.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And that language is still embedded in that entire profession.
Chuck Nice
Yep, that is true.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
The opposites. And they meet in the middle and they deal with it. Opposites of art and technology and science and the physics of light.
Chuck Nice
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Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Chuck Nice
I'm Alikon Hemraj, and I support StarTalk on Patreon. This is StarTalk with Neil DeGrasse Tyson.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So I got one for you. How about acoustic effects in climactic phenomenon?
Chuck Nice
Really?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah. Yeah, I just thought. Just thought about that.
Chuck Nice
Okay. It sounds like something that if somebody said to me at a cocktail party, I'd be like, I gotta get a drink. I'll be right back.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
But they will come back because it's intriguing enough, but they got to pray first.
Chuck Nice
They got to get prepped.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Chemically prepped for it.
Chuck Nice
Exactly.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
All right, so let's start out with thunder and lightning, for example. So lightning, in its path between the ground and the clouds or between a cloud and a cloud, never goes in a straight line because it's finding the path of least resistance. The entire time unknown to you, this is what it's doing. And then when you see the lightning strike, it is already a predetermined path between one point and another. All right? Now, it turns out the sound of lightning is simply the shock wave of rapidly heated air by the bolt of electricity moving through the air, which is extremely hot.
Chuck Nice
Right?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. It's thousands of degrees. But what matters is that the air is some other temperature, and then it is instantaneously made extremely hot. This creates an expanding shockwave that we hear as thunder. Okay. Now, because the path of the lightning is not straight, there are kinks in the root. So each segment of that kinky lightning has its own generated shockwave. Okay, Right. So now you have multiple kinks generating their shockwaves, and you can have constructive and destructive interference of competing shockwaves.
Chuck Nice
That makes so much sense, which is. Oh, go ahead.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. Okay.
Chuck Nice
Oh, this is good.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. So our researchers have found the lightning 50,000 degrees degrees Fahrenheit. Okay, that's hot. Okay. All right, so now watch. So with these different segments, that's why a single lightning bolt. And by the way, the lightning bolt is not all the same distance from you. Okay. The parts that are a little closer that are on the ground, if it's cloud to cloud, the part directly above you is closer than farther away. So the sound will hit you at different times, but it's ungenerated event. Right. So that's why the lightning can go snap, crackle, pop. Okay. That's why it's not just one acoustic experience. It is a highly. I love your thunder. Okay. You like my thunder?
Chuck Nice
We have to isolate.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
No.
Chuck Nice
What Just happened.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
If I see that on a meme, I will cold kick your.
Chuck Nice
My God. I. Absolutely.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So I'm going kick that ass. That is so going to be a meme. So here's the lightning. And it's because of the acoustical configuration of the lightning bolt itself.
Chuck Nice
That is wonderful. I'm serious. That is so great. Because one of my favorite things in the world is to hear lightning, to hear thunder, but not the rumbling thunder. The thunder that sounds as if it is tearing the sky.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah, because. Okay, I'm getting there. That's my next point. Okay, so I'm just simply accounting for, oh, by the way, constructive and destructive interference, if you're not familiar with that. So sound travels in waves. So it crests and troughs. And this is a pressure wave through the air. It hits your eardrum, your eardrum vibrates. We interpret that as sound. Sound. So does your body too, by the way. There are certain frequencies of sound that are longer. Sorry. There's certain wavelengths of sound that are longer than what will fit in your eardrum. So your eardrum will have a hard time communicating it to your brain. But the length of the wavelength is about the size of your chest cavity. That's the low frequency, long wavelength. And so there are some sounds that you. You feel more than you hear. That's the rhythm section of the beat. What do they call the beat? The beatboppers or what do they call the beatboxers?
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if I heard lightning starting to do that, it was like, whoa, there is a God. A God. God is a dj. So here's what happens. The lightning sound is a huge cacophony of frequencies of sound energy. Okay, High frequency, low frequency. But here's the problem. High frequency doesn't travel very far. It's easily disrupted. It can easily lose its energy relative to the energy that it started with. And if you high frequency sound loses its energy, it becomes lower frequency sounds. So the farther away you are from a lightning strike, the lower is the total cacophony of frequencies that reach you. Aha. So lightning on the horizon is okay. If you have a pet dog, they'll. They hear that and they notice that, and they might start trembling, and you don't even know why, because that frequency is below what you can hear. The dogs hear it all right? As the storm gets closer and closer, the higher frequencies become more and more part of what you hear. And if you hear a lightning strike where that sounds like it's ripping the fabric of the space time continuum, it Meant it hits your house. All right, so that's what's going on there. Sound moves through air at about 700 miles an hour, plus or minus. Depends on the density of the air. But I like easy math. So let's just declare that the sound is moving at 600 miles an hour. Okay. 600 miles an hour is the speed of sound in air. How far does sound go in a minute?
Chuck Nice
600 divided by 60.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That's how far?
Chuck Nice
I don't know.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You just set up the verbal math problem. Did not compute it? No, that's not allowed. I don't know.
Chuck Nice
120 miles.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So if it's 600 miles an hour and you divide by 60 minutes, then sound will move 10 miles an hour. 10 miles in a minute.
Chuck Nice
In a minute.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay, so if sound moves 10 miles in a minute, how many seconds does it take the sound to move one mile?
Chuck Nice
10 seconds or six?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Six seconds. Right.
Chuck Nice
Six seconds.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So it moves a mile every six seconds so that after a minute, it moves 10 miles, and after an hour, it moves 600 miles. Right. So. So basically, if you want to know how far away the rain is from you, time. Get the time difference between when you see a lightning strike and when you hear it.
Chuck Nice
So you see the flash, and then you count 1,101 down.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Mississippi, 2003. So if it's five seconds, let's say that's almost six seconds. So the storm's about a mile away. A mile away? Yeah, about a mile away. And the real number is 700 miles an hour. So it's, you know, you make a small adjustment, but you get the basic idea, okay? Sound moves a mile every six seconds. And so just for your habits, and if you hear the thunder and it never gets closer than that, the rain is not headed towards you. Don't worry about it. Go home. Go back to sleep.
Chuck Nice
Nice.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
If that time delay keeps getting shorter and shorter and shorter, watch out. Watch out. Yep. Yeah. Hid you. You're about to lose your house. Yeah.
Chuck Nice
Dorothy, you're not in Kansas anym. There you go.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Nice. So, a couple of other acoustic things. So, for example, a snowflake is highly variegated. It's got six sides, it's got a lot of texture. And if you have snow that's descending and it's just softly landing on blankets on a surface. Okay. Now you have sound. Generally, when you hear someone from a distance, you are relying on the fact that the sound is bouncing off, off the pavement, off the walls. We don't think often about this, but reflected sound Is a big part of how we interact with our world around us. All right. If you have snow everywhere, the surface of the snow is not rigid. It's not highly reflective. In fact, it's highly absorbent. So particularly for city people, know this. If all of a sudden the city gets quiet and you don't hear anything, look out the window, chances are it's snowing nice. Because the sound of the cars and all the normal sounds that reach you by reflecting off of steel and glass and concrete and cement is no longer reflecting. It's all muffled.
Chuck Nice
Yeah.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And so the song, the Christmas song, Silent night, Holy night, whatever other reasons you want to think of it as a silent night, if it has just snowed, guaranteed to be more silent than it otherwise would have ever been.
Chuck Nice
Snow is nature soundproofing.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Nature soundproofing. Now, when you're walking on snow, okay.
Chuck Nice
As opposed to walking on sunshine, okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So it's just snowed and you're walking on it. Okay. And that will normally be a silent exercise. Okay. Because you're just pressing down snowflakes because they landed softly and now you're just sort of compressing them. Fine. If it's colder, I forgot the temperatures. If it's colder than like 25 degrees, low 20s. If it's definitely. If it's in the teens or lower. If you then step on the snow, okay? The snow says, I will not yield under your boot print. I'm going to hold my shape because it is cold enough that we are all solid and rigid. And what happens? The snow crunches. Yeah. Then you crunch on snow. So if you're filming a movie or if you're observing a scene and you hear people crunching on the snow, guarantee the temperatures in the low 20s are in the teens.
Chuck Nice
Or there's a guy in a booth with some cornflakes and he's just matching the sound to the people walking.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
The sound studios have all those. The sound effects, Right. So that's why snow crunches at cold temperatures and does not crunch at warmer temperatures. By the way, at the warmer temperatures, your pressure is enough to melt the snow to bring it immediately below the freezing point. That's a whole other startalk explainers that we've done. What ice will do under pressure. Under pressure. Yeah. So these are some interesting sort of sound things to look out for when this happens. Now, it has been rumored that Aurora. That you can hear Aurora, and I'm not convinced of that. Really? Yeah, yeah. Because it happens, you know, it happens 50,000ft up, you know, 10 miles away. And farther up in the atmosphere, where the atmosphere is really thin. Right. It is electrical, so it could be that it's creating other electrical phenomenon in your environment. But to say that you heard sound that comes from that high, I'm not convinced of that. I don't believe. But people say it, so it's worth the I've essay.
Chuck Nice
It sings.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's worth investigating.
Chuck Nice
I think so.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yeah. Yeah. And so let me think. Any other sounds you heard in weather that you wonder about?
Chuck Nice
I mean, you know, aside from the fact that my uncle used to like to make his own sounds and then blame it on me while we were walking in the cold. Other than that.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And here's another one. You know the sound of hail hitting? Right. These are basically. These are like marbles falling out of the sky.
Chuck Nice
I know what that sound is. That is the sound of a call to the insurance adjustment.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yes. So people say, you know, when do you get hail most? You get it in the summertime. That's weird. Ice falling out of the sky in the summertime. Well, it's a reminder that the sun is not heating the air. The air is transparent to sunlight. That's why you can see the sun from Earth's surface through the air. And so this happened in Los Angeles. Los Angeles and Beijing and Mexico City. Right. So those are inversion layers that. So they're climactically susceptible to trapping smog. Both those three areas, you notice, they're all in basins. All Santiago, Chile as well. So here's what happens. The sun heats the ground, the ground heats the air. All right. But if you go high above the ground, it gets very, very cold very, very quickly, no matter the time of year. All right? But in the summertime, you have the most ground heating, and so you have the most unstable air columns. So the biggest, thickest, juiciest cumulonimbus clouds, which we all learned about in elementary school, the big puffy ones, you find those in the summer turf and you look at them and you think the cloud is just sitting there. But if you look for long enough, you will see that it is roiling. And in the roiling, there is very highly unstable air rising within it. The more unstable the air is in the upwardly rising columns, the harder it is for whatever is hanging out in there to fall out of the cloud.
Chuck Nice
Wow.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Because it's kept buoyant by these upwardly moving air columns. Right. So you first nucleate a little droplet of ice. It wants to fall. I say, no, you're not. And it Comes back out and it nuclear nucleates with more moisture. Because what is a cloud? It's a big pocket of moisture droplets. Droplets, Water drops would gather more moisture and ah, no, you're not. And it keeps doing this. It keeps doing this until the frozen ball says, you ain't holding me this time. And that's why all of hail is about the same size, because it had to get to that size to overcome the highly unstable air columns that were supporting it. And so the more turbulent is the air, the louder they will be when they hit the ground. And then there it is. And we always reference the size of hail to some other object, which I find interesting. No one says it was softball sized hail. It was baseball sized hail. I've never seen anybody talk about hail sized golf balls. Right. Maybe it's obvious why, but I don't know. But anyhow, so, Chuck, that's a little bit of the sound of weather.
Chuck Nice
I love it. So, so very cool.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Oh, and one other thing, one last thing. You ever been driving a car and it's raining and it's raining, you know, the whole time you're driving and then you come under an overpass and it's silent?
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. Just silent. That's an interesting phenomenon because what your brain had done was create the sound of rain as the normal. So that when you go under the underpass, it's the absence of rain that you take notice of.
Chuck Nice
See? And that happens in my everyday life where the normal sound is a house.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Full of annoying children running around. And when you step out the house, you say, what was that? That's nice. When you step out into silence, you wonder, you look around.
Chuck Nice
So silent out here. What's relevant? What happened? And oh my God, did we move to the country?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So there's a word I've seen and it hasn't caught on, but I think it should. It's the sound of the absence of rain under an overpass. Okay. And it's called a down pause. Oh.
Chuck Nice
Instead of a downpour, a down pause.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Down pause. Oh, that's lovely. I will leave you with that.
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Neil deGrasse Tyson
Friction.
Chuck Nice
Oh, my goodness. Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Friction. Friction. Now friction. Usually when people talk about friction, it's bad. All right? You could bring out the WD40. It's squeaking. It's friction and friction burn. Friction burn. Right, right, right. But let me tell you, without friction, life as we know it would not be possible. Hmm. Friction is your friend.
Chuck Nice
See, I have lots of missing skin on my knees with that to differ.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So friction. I mean, just think about it. If you just sort of put your elbow on the table, right? And you just rest it there.
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And then you want to listen to me. If there was no friction, you would just slide off the table. There'd be nothing keeping your elbow there.
Chuck Nice
That's why I stopped wearing silk shirts.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And let's say you wanted to drive your car. You need the friction between your tires and the road so that you will move forward. If there were zero friction between your car and the road, the wheels would just spin and nothing would happen.
Chuck Nice
Okay?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You would go nowhere. You wouldn't be able to start the car, to move the car, slow down the car, stop the car, or even steer the car. All of that Requires friction.
Chuck Nice
To walk.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
To walk, you put a foot down. There is friction there. You press back, and your next foot moves forward in advance of it. That required friction. This is why on slippery ice, where there is no friction, you can't walk, you can't run, and you say, this is bad. Put me back on regular ground. What you're really pleading for is give me some friction. Right. You don't say that, because friction has a bad name. And what do you do when it's cold out and you're not wearing gloves? What do you do? Hands get hot.
Chuck Nice
I just realized it's cold in my house.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Okay. So you do that. Okay. Friction is your friend. Oh, that's nice. So we'll do a whole other thing on friction. Becoming heat. That's a whole other explainer that needs its own time for that. Oh, but friction can help get you warm. All right. So the only thing that really does not use friction is rockets. All other transportation requires friction. Oh, Bicycles, trains.
Chuck Nice
Okay.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Planes, in order to take off. Okay.
Chuck Nice
Oh, my goodness.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That's right. All of this requires friction to take the planes needed to take off. So with a rocket, however, by the way, it's why rockets work in space, where there's no air, there's nothing rubbing against anything else. It sends material out the back, and it recoils forward.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So all rockets that are accelerating are losing mass in order to do it in a recoil. Whereas you don't have to lose mass to do it. You just have to press against the. The Earth.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Well, Newton told us, for every action is an equal and opposite reaction. So if you are standstill and you start moving forward, actually, something has to start moving backwards. And it's communicated that way through friction. So what happens? You move forward with a certain momentum. What are you pushing against the ground? The ground. The ground has to move backwards. And it does. So the entire Earth is responding to the fact that you moved in one direction. Okay.
Chuck Nice
Oh, man. Could we all get together, every human being, just in one group, and start running in one direction?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Will we speed up the Earth? Yes. Or slow it down, depending on which direction. And it has to be due east or due west. Correct?
Chuck Nice
Due eastward.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Yes.
Chuck Nice
What?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So if everyone lined up okay and started running due east. Okay. So that will sort of spin which way we turn it? We're turning this way. So you have to run and run due west. And if everybody does that with their scurrying feet, you will speed up the rotation of the Earth.
Chuck Nice
What?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That is the response of the Earth to you propelling yourself forward by way of friction connecting you to the Earth itself. It's true with cars. It's true with everything. Now, I once did a calculation, and I said, let's get our most powerful rocket engines, bench mount them at the equator, where you have sort of maximum torque on the Earth. And can we use that to either speed up or slow down the Earth? Then I did the math on that, and it's hopeless.
Chuck Nice
Okay?
Neil deGrasse Tyson
It's like a gnat flying full speed into the side of an elephant and believing the elephant even took notice. Okay, so.
Chuck Nice
Very confident gnat.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Very confident.
Chuck Nice
It's a very confident gnat.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
In fact, it's less than that. So. But.
Chuck Nice
But take that, dumbo.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
What I'm saying is the momentum that we all gave each other by putting ourselves into motion, you can write down that number. Momentum is your mass times your velocity that you gave yourself. Okay? Earth's rotation increase or decrease will have changed by exactly that same amount of momentum, so that they both cancel because you started out both not moving relative to each other. So if one thing starts moving, the other thing has to recoil the other way so that they balance out. That's Physics 101. So if you go forward, Earth goes backwards by the exact same total momentum. But Earth has so much mass relative to all the mass of the humans that your momentum, which is mass times velocity, that's the only quantity that has to be the same. All right? So all we humans run forward and add up all our mass and get all our velocities, add it all up, and we got this hunkering Earth with this really large mass, and it gets a teeny little bitty velocity to balance us out, so you don't notice it, but you can calculate what that effect is. And it is real.
Chuck Nice
It is real.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Wow. Excellent. And the friction, it's all friction. So I just want you to think of friction as a good thing. It's more good than bad. One thing friction does is it slows down things that were put into motion. And Aristotle not really understanding friction. Aristotle got most of his physics wrong, by the way. He's not a champ. He's no hero in physics and astrophysics.
Chuck Nice
Thank God he had philosophy philosophers like.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Him, and he did important things. But there's stuff he could have really checked and he didn't. And so it's before experimental philosophy kicked in, as opposed to thinking philosophy. And so the experimental philosophers. Bacon had a whole book just on experiments that he said he conducted. But there's like a thousand experiments in it, and that's all he'd be doing every day for the rest of his life. So I don't think he did them all. But it's a book. We collected them. And so Galileo, do the experiment. If you have an idea, okay?
Chuck Nice
Because otherwise, and no disrespect, Aristotle, you're just bullshitting.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You're just thinking stuff up that you think should be true because it makes sense to you. We can all do that in the armchair. So he said, things in motion to tend to come to rest. Okay, so that's true, right? All right. But Galileo said, wait a minute. If I wax the track, you know, I have a thing. I roll it down the hill and it stops like here. Now I make it smoother, it stops a little farther away. Make it even smoother, it starts even farther away. And he said, wait a minute. What would happen if there was no friction on this track? Where will it stop? And he concluded that things in motion will tend to stay in. He fed Newton's Things in motion tend to stay in motion. It's the opposite of Aristotle, unless acted on by an outside force.
Chuck Nice
Ah, look at that.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And so Galileo was the bridge between Aristotle and Newton. And doing the experiments by waxing the track, making it ever more smooth, reducing the friction coming. That enabled him to establish a fundamental truth about nature going beyond just what your life experience is.
Chuck Nice
So look at that Galileo, the Mr. Miyagi of physics, who knew.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Wax off, wax off, wax off. So I just want you to appreciate.
Chuck Nice
Friction, you know, I will not. I. No. I still can't get my head around liking friction. But it is necessary.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Without friction, everything would just be floating, would be gliding, sliding around, sliding around. You sit on a couch, the couch would just slide back. By the way, you could push very heavy things. If there's a freight train, I don't care what it weighed. If it's on frictionless tracks, let's say it's a Magleb frictionless track and you have a little handle. Just take it and start pulling. So you can put a force on it. And yes, it's way more mass than you are. So the velocity will be small, but it'll have some velocity. So you can just start pushing it. And this is why those strong men in competitions, okay, where they pull with. In the old days, they pull the train with their teeth, okay? It's because trains are on steel rolling wheels on steel tracks, which has very low friction, okay? If you took it off the tracks and let it sit there in the mud, and then haven't tried to Tug the train. That ain't happening.
Chuck Nice
That's, that's kind of funny though.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You could pull things that have wheels on them because wheels have very low friction in the transmission of the movement of that object to the ground. Because you're not dragging it on the ground.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
But the wheel itself still needs a little bit of friction in order to not spin, spin out. That's all.
Chuck Nice
That's so cool. Oh, you know, I have to say, I will never think of friction in the same way.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
One last thing, One last thing. When astronauts reenter the atmosphere and they have that, you know, the burning phase, you know?
Chuck Nice
Yes.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
The flames and the thing. All right. We say, oh my gosh, will they survive? This is bad. How could. No, you need that. The astronauts coming out of orbit are going 17,000 miles an hour and they didn't bring fuel to break. Oh, okay. Because all they would have to do. All they would have to do. We don't do this. But what they could do is bring enough fuel while you're in orbit at 17,000 miles an hour, because that's orbital speed, turn their ship around and fire it backwards.
Chuck Nice
Right.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
That will slow you down. And you keep doing that until you like have zero velocity and then you just drop out of the sky. If you drop out of the sky, you're not going to be burning up because what's burning up is the kinetic energy of having gone 17,000 miles an hour in the first place. I saw a movie, I think it was one of these Mars movies, one of the earlier ones that came and went, where there's something happening on a platform and the guy falls off the platform, but it's a stable platform up there above the ground. And as he falls, we see him just burn up. It's like, no, no. The act of falling through the atmosphere alone is not what burns you up. It's the fact that you are going from 17,000 miles an hour to zero. And where does all that kinetic energy go? There is friction between you and the air molecules passing across your surface. There's also shock waves that communicate. As you're going faster than the speed of sound, shockwaves take all this energy that you have and converted into heat. And then the heat dissipates and then you fall down out of the sky alive because you have special heat shields that protect you. Uh huh.
Chuck Nice
There you go.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And before we perfected the tiles that we used on the shuttle, you know what the heat shield was? Astronauts, they weren't really shields. A shield is something that protects you. We call Them shields. But that's not what they were. You know what they were? They're like onion layers of burnable material.
Chuck Nice
Oh, so they just burned off.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Exactly.
Chuck Nice
But you had to go through enough of them to get to the crispy center.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Where the astronauts are.
Chuck Nice
Where the astronauts are.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
So it turns out coming out of orbit, you need more of these layers than when you come back from the moon. So coming back from the moon, you just make that layer thicker and then it ablates and it heats, it burns off and goes out. That takes the heat away and each as these layers go. So it's a very blunt, effective heat shield, but it's really a shield that dissolves away in the heat. All of that, the friction, the shock waves. And that allows you to not have to take fuel in order to slow down using fuel. Because you're basically aerobraking. Sweet. That's what reentry is. It's a form of aerobraking.
Chuck Nice
That is fascinating.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Friction is your friend. That's what I'm trying to tell you, Chuck.
Chuck Nice
Every astronaut loves friction. Otherwise they can't come home.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
You can't come home. Or you need fuel to slow down. That's all I'm saying. You want to exploit what you got, and so you should say, great, they're burning up their heat shields. That's a good thing.
Chuck Nice
Sweet. All right. I'm liking it, Chuck.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Friction's your friend.
Chuck Nice
All right, I got a new friend.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Today.
Chuck Nice
That makes one.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
All right, Mix one. One, One French Chuck and his one friend.
Chuck Nice
I got my one friend phrases.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
All right, Neil Degrasse Tyson here, your personal astrophysicist. Keep looking up.
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Host: Neil deGrasse Tyson
Co-host: Chuck Nice
Air Date: December 30, 2025
In this enlightening and energetic installment of StarTalk Radio's "Things You Thought You Knew," Neil deGrasse Tyson and comedian Chuck Nice tackle persistent science misconceptions and everyday mysteries. This episode delves into topics ranging from the true color of the sun, the physics of weather acoustics, and the reality of friction. With humor, clear explanations, and memorable analogies, the hosts dispel scientific myths and tie complex phenomena to daily life.
Childhood Misconceptions
Why We Perceive the Sun as Yellow or Red
What Color Is the Sun Really?
White Light and Artistic Misconceptions
Cultural and Artistic Associations
Thunder and Lightning (17:50–25:38)
Snow and Silence (26:19–29:28)
Other Weather Sounds
Friction in Daily Life
Physics of Friction
Friction and Planetary Movement
Friction in Science History
Friction and Spacecraft Reentry
| Segment | Topic | Approx. Timestamps | |----------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------|-----------------------| | Welcome & Theme | Episode premise/introduction | 01:00–01:57 | | The Color of the Sun | Childhood myths; light scattering; optics | 01:57–15:38 | | Weather Acoustics | Thunder & lightning; snow’s silence; hail, etc. | 17:50–34:55 | | Friction | Everyday and cosmic examples; physics history | 37:19–51:49 | | Closing Remarks | Key takeaways, humor, credits | 51:49–52:08 |
Dynamic, witty, and down-to-earth, the hosts combine rigorous science with relatable humor. Tyson’s explanations are detailed but accessible, and Chuck’s comic timing keeps things fresh and engaging.
Keep looking up!