To Boldly Go Where No StarTalk Has Gone Before with Charles Liu

Summary

StarTalk Radio Episode Summary: "To Boldly Go Where No StarTalk Has Gone Before with Charles Liu"

Release Date: December 10, 2024
Host: Neil deGrasse Tyson
Guest: Charles Liu, Professor at City University of New York and Podcaster of "The Loonaverse"
Co-Host: Chuck Nice

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Introduction

In the December 10, 2024 episode of StarTalk Radio, astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson welcomes his guest, Charles Liu, alongside his comic co-host Chuck Nice. The episode is a special edition focusing entirely on Star Trek, delving into its technological concepts, scientific accuracy, and cultural impact.

Main Discussion Points

Star Trek’s Technological Inspirations and Scientific Basis

The conversation begins with Charles Liu introducing his podcast, The Loonaverse, and briefly touching upon the release of the Handy Answer Book, a series that simplifies complex scientific topics. Neil humorously critiques the book's cover, featuring iconic scientific symbols like Schrödinger's cat and atoms ([04:33]).

Notable Quote:
"The answer book is not designed to sort of reveal the most detailed deep in the weeds research results, but it’s kind of like we all know quantum is there and we wonder about it. So get a little question, got a little answer. There’s a whole bunch." — Charles Liu [05:13]

Liu emphasizes the importance of imagination in scientific advancement, referencing Albert Einstein’s belief that creativity surpasses knowledge ([10:03]). This segues into a discussion on how Star Trek envisioned technologies such as faster-than-light travel, communicators (akin to today’s smartphones), and automatic doors—all ahead of their time ([08:44]).

Warp Drive and Faster-Than-Light Travel

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to understanding the feasibility of Star Trek's iconic warp drive. Charles explains the theoretical underpinnings, referencing Miguel Alcubierre's concept of a warp bubble that contracts space in front of a ship and expands it behind, allowing faster-than-light travel without violating relativity ([30:02]).

Notable Quote:
"Einstein's general theory of relativity shows that while there are mathematical solutions for warping space and time, the energy requirements to move a spaceship using such a method are astronomically high, rendering it currently impossible." — Neil deGrasse Tyson [39:51]

Despite the mathematical possibility, the trio agrees that harnessing such technology remains beyond our current capabilities. They discuss alternative methods like wormholes and the Mycelium Network introduced in Star Trek: Discovery, highlighting how these fictional technologies inspire real scientific inquiry ([24:09]).

Quantum Physics in Biology and Everyday Life

Charles Liu provides insights into how Star Trek incorporates quantum physics into biological processes. He explains that our eyesight relies on quantum reactions when photons activate rod and cone cells in our eyes ([05:35]).

Notable Quote:
"Our eyes work because of quantum. The photons that hit our eyes activate certain cells, and the rods and cones are activated when you have a quantum reaction from a photon and a cell." — Charles Liu [05:35]

This discussion underscores the intricate relationship between quantum mechanics and biological functions, bridging Star Trek's speculative technology with real scientific phenomena.

Cultural Impact and Morality Tales of Star Trek

Neil deGrasse Tyson reflects on the cultural significance of Star Trek, noting its role in shaping future aspirations and ethical considerations in science and technology. He argues that Star Trek not only showcases technological advancements but also serves as a morality tale, emphasizing the need for wisdom and ethical responsibility in wielding scientific power ([54:59]).

Notable Quote:
"Star Trek not only gave us a glimpse into what the future of science and technology might bring, each episode at its best was also a morality tale. What good is the power of science and technology going into the future without the wisdom to harness it, to do right by it, to do right by your neighbor in the presence of such power?" — Neil deGrasse Tyson [54:59]

Audience Q&A Segment

The episode features an engaging Q&A session where listeners pose questions about Star Trek's technologies and their real-world counterparts:

1. Warp Speed and Universe Expansion:
   Question: How does warp speed account for the universe's expansion during long space voyages? ([28:16])
   Answer: Charles Liu explains that within the scale of the Milky Way galaxy, gravitational forces counteract the universe's expansion, making warp speed feasible without major distortions ([28:45]).

2. Antimatter Containment Systems:
   Question: How would an antimatter warp drive containment system function? ([42:09])
   Answer: Neil and Charles discuss the necessity of magnetic bottles to contain antimatter, preventing contact with matter and potential annihilation ([42:37]).

3. Feasibility of Star Trek Technologies by 2260:
   Question: What percentage of Star Trek's technologies could exist by 2260? ([46:23])
   Answer: Charles Liu estimates about 1% of the technologies depicted could be realized, emphasizing that significant breakthroughs in physics are required ([47:24]).

Notable Quotes from Q&A:

• "It’s mathematically possible, but the energetics are way off." — Neil deGrasse Tyson [39:51]
• "Only 1% of all the stuff that was shown out there." — Charles Liu [47:29]

Interactive Trivia Game

The hosts engage in a Star Trek trivia game, testing each other's knowledge. Neil DeGrasse Tyson admits to not knowing all the answers, adding a humorous and relatable touch to the discussion ([53:46]).

Notable Moments:

• Chuck Nice excellently answers questions about Star Trek characters, eliciting both admiration and light-hearted teasing ([52:48] – [54:53]).
• The segment concludes with a playful acknowledgment of their finite knowledge, reinforcing the show's theme of ongoing learning and exploration ([54:53]).

Conclusion

In a heartfelt closing, Neil deGrasse Tyson emphasizes the indispensable role of science fiction like Star Trek in inspiring real scientific innovation and ethical considerations. He advocates for continued dreaming and investment in science and technology to achieve a future better than today.

Notable Quote:
"Without science fiction, would we still be in the caves without somebody thinking about a future and what role science, technology, invention, and innovation could play in our lives? I don’t want to live in that world." — Neil deGrasse Tyson [57:55]

Final Remarks

The episode wraps up with a unified chant from the hosts:

"This has been StarTalk. Keep looking up."
— Neil deGrasse Tyson, Chuck Nice, and Charles Liu [57:31 – 57:38]

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Key Takeaways

• Star Trek serves as a bridge between imaginative science fiction and real-world scientific exploration.
• Concepts like warp drive inspire discussions on the boundaries of physics and the potential for future technological breakthroughs.
• The show highlights the importance of ethics in science, ensuring that advancements benefit humanity responsibly.
• Audience engagement through Q&A and trivia fosters a deeper connection between the hosts and listeners, making complex scientific ideas accessible and entertaining.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "Our eyes work because of quantum." — Charles Liu [05:35]
• "Einstein's general theory of relativity shows that while there are mathematical solutions for warping space and time, the energy requirements to move a spaceship using such a method are astronomically high." — Neil deGrasse Tyson [39:51]
• "Star Trek not only gave us a glimpse into what the future of science and technology might bring, each episode at its best was also a morality tale." — Neil deGrasse Tyson [54:59]
• "Without science fiction, would we still be in the caves without somebody thinking about a future and what role science, technology, invention, and innovation could play in our lives?" — Neil deGrasse Tyson [57:55]

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This episode of StarTalk Radio masterfully intertwines Star Trek lore with scientific discourse, offering listeners both entertainment and enlightenment. Through insightful dialogue and engaging segments, Neil deGrasse Tyson, alongside Charles Liu and Chuck Nice, celebrates the enduring legacy of Star Trek in inspiring generations of scientists, engineers, and dreamers.

Transcript

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

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[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So Chuck, we finally did it.

[Chuck Nice]

We did it. We finally did it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We pulled in our Geek in Chief.

[Chuck Nice]

We pulled in in.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We did an entire episode on Star Trek.

[Chuck Nice]

Just Star Trek. It was great.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

A Cosmic Queries. And that's coming right up here in my office at the Hayden Planetarium of the American Museum of Natural History. We'll see you then. Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now. This is StarTalk. Neil DeGrasse Tyson here, your personal astrophysicist. And this is a Cosmic Queries edition, which means we got Chuck Nice in the house.

[Chuck Nice]

That's Right. All right, Chuck, what's happening now?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Your questions today are not random.

[Chuck Nice]

They are not. Indeed.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They are all on one subject.

[Chuck Nice]

That's right. And that subject is the only subject. Star Trek. Star Trek. Star Trek.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We are overdue to have a Star Trek episode.

[Chuck Nice]

That's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

But I could get a little ways on that topic. But we have to go to our deacon Chief.

[Chuck Nice]

We called him and said, make it so.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Charles Liu, welcome back to StarTalk.

[Charles Liu]

Thank you, Neil. Hello, Charles.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Charles Liu, for those of you who don't know, is a friend and colleague. He's a professor at the City University of New York, still at Staten Island. But you're in the graduate center as well. Yes, yes, yes. Which interacts with graduate students and things, right?

[Charles Liu]

Yeah, it's a combination.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. Good, good. And you have your own podcast.

[Charles Liu]

It is called the Loonaverse.

[Chuck Nice]

The Loonaverse.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I see what you did there.

[Chuck Nice]

Very, very cool.

[Charles Liu]

I can't take credit for it. My family told me to use it. I was like, really? And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's good. We'll give them that one. Okay. And I just learned my boy here. I'm so proud of him. Okay. I can say that. Cause I'm 10 years older than him, so I get to say that he just came out. Is this out yet?

[Charles Liu]

It is out.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It is out yet. There's the handy answer book, which is a series.

[Charles Liu]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. And there's the handy. Put in your favorite subject answer book.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. This is one that. Where's it been all our lives? Okay. The handy quantum physics answer book. Oh, my gosh. Everybody who is claiming to invoke quantum physics to explain stuff they don't understand needs this book.

[Chuck Nice]

Absolutely. And there's a little Schrodinger cat right on the bottom.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, you got a cat. Right. And you got the little atom and. Oh, my gosh.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, that's so cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Look at that. Because. So this is. If you've. No, you don't research in quantum physics.

[Charles Liu]

That's right. I use quantum physics.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You use quantum physics every day. So it's a user's guide.

[Charles Liu]

That's really what it is. Yeah. The answer book is not designed to sort of reveal the most detail deep in the weeds, research results. But it's kind of like we all know quantum is there and we wonder about it. So get a little question, got a little answer. There's a whole bunch.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Well, there's a whole biology section here. Okay.

[Charles Liu]

How does quantum work in biology? A lot of Us don't understand that.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, that's fine.

[Charles Liu]

Our eyes work because of quantum.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yes, they do.

[Chuck Nice]

Why?

[Charles Liu]

The photons that come hit our eyes, they have to activate certain cells. And the rods and cones are activated when you have a quantum reaction from a photon and a cell.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So those are molecules that are absorbing the photon. Something happens when the photon gets absorbed.

[Charles Liu]

Yeah, that's.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, it's called sight. Ooh, Got a chapter on quantum entanglement.

[Charles Liu]

Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You've got bios on people who contributed here. And what is the size of the electron? That's my favorite one.

[Chuck Nice]

I love it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

And what is the size of the electron?

[Charles Liu]

It's at most 10 to the minus 18 meter in diameter. But the thing is a T. Right. So it's a billionth of a billion of a meter.

[Chuck Nice]

Why are we putting it in the minus. What. What measurement would it be in? Positive. Like, why you gotta be all negative?

[Charles Liu]

Fair enough. A billionth of a billionth of a meter.

[Chuck Nice]

A billionth of a meter.

[Charles Liu]

A billionth of a billionth.

[Chuck Nice]

A billionth of a billionth.

[Charles Liu]

Yes.

[Chuck Nice]

Now a billionth at most. What is a nano? What's that?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's a billionth.

[Charles Liu]

That's a billion.

[Chuck Nice]

That's just billions.

[Charles Liu]

So this is billions.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Get your ths in there.

[Charles Liu]

Billionth.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Right. And nano is 10 to the minus 9.

[Chuck Nice]

That's 10.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So 10 to minus 9 times 10.

[Charles Liu]

To the minus 9 is 10 to the minus 18.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Charles Liu]

The thing is, though, the electron is so small and it has such a weird profile that its size isn't really determinate.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Charles Liu]

You can it depending on how you try to measure it or try to do things.

[Chuck Nice]

Wait a minute. So if the size is indeterminate, how do you measure it to get that number?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, he didn't say. You weren't listening to him. He didn't say, this is the size of the electron. He said it's smaller than this size because that was the smallest size we are capable of measuring.

[Chuck Nice]

You can't measure anything smaller than that. But it's smaller.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And it might mean that the electron has no size at all.

[Chuck Nice]

Could it be.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

For all we know.

[Chuck Nice]

So could it be that the electron is existing?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's in the book. We gotta get to the show.

[Chuck Nice]

No, that's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

This is what she did, not the show.

[Chuck Nice]

Mess with the quantum, man.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

If you mess with the quantum, you get the horns.

[Charles Liu]

Get the horns, baby.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, my God. Tangled. Those horns are in.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, okay. Star Trek. I'm old enough to say that the first round of Star Trek occurred in my living memory. That's how old I am.

[Chuck Nice]

That's cool.

[Charles Liu]

I didn't see Star Trek until reruns.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, I saw it, of course, and when it came on weekly, I wasn't allowed to watch TV during a school.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, you got some good parents.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Most of the episodes I would ultimately see would be in reruns. But I was around when people were talking about Star Trek and what it meant to the people and to culture.

[Chuck Nice]

I can't believe they got the show where there's a black woman who answers the phone, but she's actually sitting next to all the other white people on the bridge. It's crazy. It's crazy.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Let's spend a minute before we get all racial on it. Let's find out. What about the technologies do you find most intriguing? And remind us, what year is it the original season took place in what year?

[Charles Liu]

The original season supposedly took place around the year 2260.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so that would have been 200 years in the future.

[Charles Liu]

That's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So the 1760s looks to the 1960s surely what the 1960s would look like to 2260s.

[Charles Liu]

Right, right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Surely that's a completely rational thinking there.

[Charles Liu]

Right?

[Chuck Nice]

I mean, it could be.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I mean, however, look, in 76 they have Conestoga wagons. And in the 1960s we're going to the moon. Thank you.

[Chuck Nice]

But I'm just. There's kind of a hockey stick element to.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, no. Yes. You didn't read my recent book. No. You think it's a hockey stick? It's not.

[Chuck Nice]

You think that we are going to have faster than light travel?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I'm saying the hockey stick is deeper than you know. The answer is it's always a hockey stick.

[Chuck Nice]

I like that.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, I'll get to that. What's going to happen? So, Charles, you are an impressionable kid. You are a technologist. Culturally, you're a scientist. What in the science technology of Star Trek really impacted you?

[Charles Liu]

Well, I always feel that I have to think back to Albert Einstein who said that creativity and imagination was more important than knowledge. What you could imagine.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Einstein, you can say that.

[Charles Liu]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

But there's some dumbass people out there.

[Charles Liu]

That don't know once you get to.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

A certain stage, Chuck has been influencing me.

[Charles Liu]

A basic level of knowledge is of course extremely important. But in order to really make advances, you really have to imagine something before it can exist. Right. So what, we need to dream it? Yeah, yeah. So what? We come from Star Trek, we fans of Star Trek. Look at Star Trek and say, wow. They imagined that you could travel hundreds of times the speed of light. They imagined that you could flip your little device in your hand and talk to someone thousands of miles away.

[Chuck Nice]

Hello.

[Charles Liu]

They imagined. Yeah. They imagined you could walk up to a door and it would open. Open without you touching it. So all of that technology, when Star.

[Chuck Nice]

Trek came around, automatic doors weren't. Of course not, no.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Did you hear. I've said it 100 times. I'll say it again. When I saw Star Trek, that was the least believable part of it to me. For the future.

[Chuck Nice]

I remember you said that. Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's why. That's what I'm saying. I said, how does the door know?

[Charles Liu]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. I was good with the photon torpedoes, the phasers, the communicators, the tricorders and I.

[Chuck Nice]

But the automatic door was just.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It was not happening.

[Chuck Nice]

Like, come on, guys.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

The best we had. The best we had were pressure pads.

[Charles Liu]

That's right. Going into, like, supermarkets.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Going into supermarkets because you've got groceries and things, right. You'd step on the pad, but you needed room for the door to swing open.

[Chuck Nice]

The door would swing open.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

There were no pocket doors or anything.

[Charles Liu]

Right, right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So tell me.

[Charles Liu]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Where were you with the technology?

[Charles Liu]

Well, as a kid, I didn't know yet how revolutionary all this stuff was. I just naturally assumed it. It's like, oh, okay, in the future they'll have these phaser things. And it was really cool with the phasers that you could set them on stun. I just really liked the fact that they were designed not to be lethal.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So you were a kid and that's just the future. But they're thinking that future 200 years. I don't know that they're thinking that it's in their near future, in the future of the lifetime of people alive at the time of the show. Because you go down the list, they had tablet computers. We got that checklist. Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

In my hand right now, a tablet.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. We're not getting paid by Apple for him to hold up the logo in front of us.

[Charles Liu]

Okay, Apple call now.

[Chuck Nice]

I gotta read everything like this.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Tablet computers, handheld communicators.

[Charles Liu]

That's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

In fact, we went through flip phones and now. That's old. That's old.

[Charles Liu]

That's old news.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's old. If they try to go back with the. Who's got. The Samsung has the foldy thing, the Z flip. I think they're trying to still feel the flip, but telepresence, so we can.

[Charles Liu]

Zoom with everybody we can meet with everybody at.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And T was already on the heels of that with their video phone. And I don't think people realized at the time that when you call someone, they don't always want you looking at them.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, yeah, we learned that the hard way in the pandemic.

[Charles Liu]

Oh, my goodness. But, you know, in 2001 A Space Odyssey, there was already a video phone. Right, right. The beginning of the movie, somebody is calling their child, and it was at. And T says, you know, your cost is $1.70. Thanks for calling.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Exactly. So. So the 2001 film was shot in 1968.

[Charles Liu]

That's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Which was within just a couple of years of Star Trek.

[Charles Liu]

That's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And so they're imagining video phones not 200 years in the future, just 35 years in the future.

[Charles Liu]

They got it more correct.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, they got it a little more correct.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, clearly everybody got it correct because no matter where you went in the galaxy and no matter what species you encountered, Lieutenant Uhura put on screen. And then the person would come up on screen and they'd be like, yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Charles, where's the camera putting them up on screen?

[Charles Liu]

Exactly.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Where is that?

[Charles Liu]

No, it was a backlit screen. It was probably OLED or something like that. A lot of those technological things were actually done for entertainment storytelling purposes. Right. Not for scientific imagination.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You mean in our world?

[Charles Liu]

Yeah, the transporter was a classic example. They didn't want to spend a lot of time shuttling people back and forth on little boats. And so they just immediately instantaneously brought someone from over here to over there. It was only after that became such a cool feature of the entire show that people started to retcon it and retroactively try to figure out what was the physics behind it. And they ran into all kinds of problems. So they just sort of said, yeah, it just sort of works.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You give them a hall pass on that one. Yeah, yeah, because I heard that the cost. I just heard this once, and I didn't verify it, but it seemed plausible that they costed out what it would take to have a ship land, have people get off the ship, and then get back on a ship and go back and dock.

[Charles Liu]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So there's a cost, given how many times they're going back and forth to planets, to have to stage the landing of a. Of a spacecraft and have a table. So they just pulled this out of an orifice to make it happen. And now like, what's the word you use? Retro.

[Charles Liu]

Retcon. Retroactive. Continuity.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Ooh, that's a thing.

[Charles Liu]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I never heard of that.

[Charles Liu]

It's very common in comic books. Something happens and then you have to go back and say, oh, this is.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

What actually you have to stitch it back together.

[Chuck Nice]

You reverse engineer the science.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's what it is.

[Charles Liu]

Pretty much what it is.

[Chuck Nice]

That's what you're doing. Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. And so what about warp drives? That was it. That's really what blew this open for me, I think.

[Charles Liu]

So we all want.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Because they didn't say, oh, we just go faster than light. No, they didn't do that because they knew that's not allowed.

[Charles Liu]

That's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

This is tipping their hat to Einstein in a very important way.

[Charles Liu]

They call it a warp factor. Whatever.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yes.

[Charles Liu]

Right. And that warp drive eventually became also a significant storytelling thing because then that meant it was a. An engine. And that engine had to be worked with exotic materials. There was a new thing invented called dilithium, dilithium crystals. And the crystals were somehow important in making all of the matter antimatter transaction work properly. Although the terms matter and antimatter weren't used all that much in the original Star Trek.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, they weren't.

[Charles Liu]

Yeah. And then later on, the so called photon torpedoes were also revealed to be basically big chunks of antimatter that were in torpedoes that you could fire at people. But the ideas did come from this sense that we got to get from point A to point B and we know they're far away, so we have to find some way to get from here to there. And that takes you somewhere that's not the usual dimensions of space. So that led to all kinds of wonderful stories, numerous episodes where some sort of warp drive failure or some sort of transporter failure would lead to a storyline that you would.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, that's true.

[Charles Liu]

Very good stuff. One of the, one of the most revered episodes is called Mirror Mirror where a transporter accident accidentally brings several members of the bridge crew into a parallel universe. Something that we might think of in the Many Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Exactly.

[Charles Liu]

And in this parallel universe, everyone was evil.

[Chuck Nice]

Evil Spock and evil Kirk.

[Charles Liu]

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[Chuck Nice]

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[Charles Liu]

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[Charles Liu]

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[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

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[Charles Liu]

I'm Aly Khan Hemraj and I support StarTalk on Patreon.

[Chuck Nice]

This is StarTalk with Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And that in the old days it was a white hat and a black hat, but the goatee. Because the devil has a goatee, right?

[Charles Liu]

That's right. So wonderful stories.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Why wouldn't they? So let me I had some issues with things that maybe they could have thought about a little more deeply. Oh, for sure. So for example, the phasers that came out of the ship, if it's a directed energy weapon, like a variant on a laser, of course, phaser you should not be able to see it from the side, correct? Because if properly focused, hit chalkboard erasers to make a cloud for you to see it go through the cloud. It is the vacuum of space.

[Charles Liu]

That's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It should not be visible from the side.

[Charles Liu]

That's right. And that had to be retconned. Also, the idea.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh that.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So they have an idea. Okay.

[Charles Liu]

The idea that phasers and lasers are completely different things was addressed later on in an episode of Star the Next Generation where they showed that lasers were extremely weak compared to phasers. Phasers are a whole different kind of energy beam weapon, and as a result, they could be seen from the side. Furthermore, they dissipated over time. So that if you missed it wouldn't keep going.

[Chuck Nice]

It wouldn't keep going forever.

[Charles Liu]

Actually take out a planet or something by accident.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. Six years later, there's just some ship just that explodes.

[Charles Liu]

Houston, we have a problem.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right, so what you're saying is so powerful, there's some energy leakage sideways that you could then see it. That's what that would mean.

[Chuck Nice]

And you know what's funny? I read a great thing about Gene Roddenberry when they were coming up. They originally were going to call them lasers. But they said, well, lasers are a real technology.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We got to futurize this.

[Chuck Nice]

Right. We got to make sure. Who knows where lasers will be in 10 years and we'll look kind of stupid. That's right. So we got to future proof this.

[Charles Liu]

That's really smart. Because indeed lasers wound up in everything that we use.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes, right, right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

There was a day when Laser Floyd was the big attraction in the evening hours on the weekend at planetariums. All right? And that's the 1970s. By the late 80s, lasers were like impulse items at Kmart. So no longer could you say, let's go see lasers.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It lost the draw.

[Chuck Nice]

The laser light show this Saturday night. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

One last thing. And then we gotta go to Q and A because that's the whole point of this. Okay. It's hard enough having a conversation with somebody on the moon because the light travel time delays like two, two and a half seconds.

[Charles Liu]

Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So you can't have witty repartee. They're talking to people halfway across the galaxy in Star Trek.

[Charles Liu]

That's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I don't know that that was addressed in the original series.

[Charles Liu]

In the original series it really wasn't addressed.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We just accepted the fact.

[Charles Liu]

We just expect. Yeah, you could do it. Okay. Your transponders, your communicators were just instantaneous. In the Next Generation they came up with this idea of subspace communications. It was more properly addressed that the communications did not go through regular space. In fact, it had almost a different dimension or kind of side stepped the dimensions of ordinary space that we went.

[Chuck Nice]

To that kind of communication wormhole that they were able to.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, okay.

[Charles Liu]

This kind of communication was instantaneous. It was way faster than even the fastest starship.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So my sense of the transporter is. Cause I get this question every now and then and they say, how close are we to transporters? And I say, sometimes your goal is solved by a different solution that might be more creative or simpler than the one you think is necessary.

[Charles Liu]

That's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And so I Foresee a day where we do get command of wormholes and you just step through a wormhole.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. You don't need a transformer.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I don't need to disassemble your entire.

[Chuck Nice]

Molecular conduit construct and makeup and put it back together.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And put it back together correctly.

[Charles Liu]

Right. Well, in that sense. Right. You're dependent on the network. Right. The Star Trek Discovery series focuses on something called the Mycelium Network. Right. It's based on biology, like mushrooms almost. Yeah. Right. And of course, mushrooms are now very popular in science fiction. It is the basis for the Last of Us, the zombie apocalypse.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Fungus more broadly.

[Charles Liu]

Yeah, fungus more than mushrooms. But this mycelium thing, independent.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Just to be clear, fungus is a branch of. It is in the kingdom of the tree of life.

[Charles Liu]

Yeah, Right. Fungus as diverse and cool as animals, as plants.

[Chuck Nice]

Correct.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Within the fungus kingdom, you have things like yeast, but you also have mushrooms that we eat and mushrooms that'll kill us, and mushrooms that'll take you in your own subspace trip.

[Charles Liu]

Right. The networks like that are very much like a public transportation network. You can only go to a certain station or certain places you want. Right. Transport allows you go literally anywhere that you want to go, whenever you want to go.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, I'm saying you have a machine that opens up a wormhole like Rick. And Rick and Morty. Like Mr. Magic Guy in. Who's this guy?

[Chuck Nice]

Dr.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Strange. Dr.

[Charles Liu]

Strange.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

He opens a hole wherever he wants and whenever he wants. Don't try to defend transporters on that basis.

[Charles Liu]

Then you're in magic, dude. You're not in science anymore.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, Rick uses real science.

[Charles Liu]

Oh, of course.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, yeah, because obviously.

[Charles Liu]

Yes. Whereas Dr.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Strange, he uses magic. Right. And so we were duly informed that this whole study of the mycelium networks for mushrooms and mushrooms in general, fungus is mycology.

[Charles Liu]

Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Which I think is a pretty cool.

[Charles Liu]

A wonderful area of study out there. I recently heard a scientist described the possibility that the reason that we mammals were able to evolve after the dinosaurs had their terrible extinction. Right. Is because we had a better relationship. We had a better relationship with fungi.

[Chuck Nice]

Really.

[Charles Liu]

Our body temperatures allowed us to resist infections and parasitic relationships with fungi. Whereas, say, reptiles, which are cold blooded. We're not. And so over those 65 million years, the reptiles state, you know, like crocodiles, for example, they're still roughly the same as they used to be. Whereas we are way different from those little tiny reptilian.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Chuck still has a reptilian brain.

[Chuck Nice]

Without a doubt.

[Charles Liu]

We all still have reptilians, without a doubt. Some of us are just bigger and some of us just smaller.

[Chuck Nice]

I also like to sound on a rock, so. Oh, me too. With your belly shot.

[Charles Liu]

Yes, exactly. Mouth wide open.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I forgot.

[Chuck Nice]

They flew over their mouths, don't they?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So if you look at the Tree of Life, what impresses me most, intrigues me most, is that the common ancestor between animals and fungus, between mushrooms and humans, split later in the Tree of Life than its common ancestor split with green plants, which means humans and mushrooms are more genetically related. Either of us are two green plants.

[Chuck Nice]

Two green plants.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Ain't that some stuff?

[Chuck Nice]

Ain't that something? Okay.

[Charles Liu]

Pretty amazing.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And that's why.

[Chuck Nice]

Maybe that's why I love shiitakes so much.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's what I'm saying. And that's why no one has ever accused kale of tasting meaty.

[Chuck Nice]

That's so true.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

People have used the word with mushrooms.

[Chuck Nice]

And nobody ever had a kale burger. But people have had portobello burgers.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They had portobello burgers. And the umami that's been described is common in not only meats, but in mushrooms.

[Chuck Nice]

Mushrooms.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

The umami flavor.

[Chuck Nice]

That's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

When you eat it and you go, umami, is that where that came from? That's.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, that's in Japan, the first umami, because they came up with that one, I think it was Japanese, right?

[Chuck Nice]

Yes, absolute Japanese. Aaron Jackson says hello, Dr. Tyson, Star Lord, and Dr. Loonaverse.

[Charles Liu]

Ooh, thank you.

[Chuck Nice]

Aaron from Lake Balboa, California, here. My question has to do with the space time travel. At warp speed A, planet A is 100 light years from planet B. It would take the Starship Voyager 100 years to arrive at warp speed 101. Now, my question is, doesn't it get closer or farther away from planet A over that duration of 100 years, depending on the respective trajectories? In other words, the expansion of the universe, does it take warp speed? Does that take into account the expansion of the universe itself?

[Charles Liu]

I presume that it must. Right. It's not hard to make that calculation. Right. But, Charles, what we're talking about, the.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Universe is not expanding that far in the time it takes them to do it during the TV commercial.

[Charles Liu]

What we should keep in mind is that most of the travel, in fact, almost all the travel of Star Trek happens within our Milky Way galaxy. Within the Milky Way and within that space, the expansion of the universe is completely counteracted by the gravitational pull that's of the objects in the galaxy.

[Chuck Nice]

So just to make sure I got it clear, we're Experiencing the expansion of the universe, but because we are coalesced by the gravity of our own galaxy, we're not experiencing it like we were outside of the galaxy. We're kind of all in it together.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Moving together to make a stronger point that the forces that keep your body together, the molecular forces, the gravity, our proximity to Earth and Earth's proximity to the sun and the sun's proximity to the center of the galaxy, that is tighter than any expansion of the universe would manifest on that scale.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, I got you.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So we win.

[Chuck Nice]

Right? The expansion of the universe is never going to pull us apart until you get to that place called the Big Rip. Oh, Jesus Christ. Oh, God. Anyway, so go ahead.

[Charles Liu]

That's a different.

[Chuck Nice]

That's a whole nother show.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That was an explainer in another episode.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes, right.

[Charles Liu]

And so I wouldn't worry about that motion. It's something that we can compensate for.

[Chuck Nice]

Easily with no problem.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And you're showing. He's not asking the question that in their. In Star Trek's version of the warp drive.

[Charles Liu]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Aren't they pulling the object that's in front of you closer to you and then expanding the space behind you so that you're effectively moving fast? That's not what he's asking.

[Chuck Nice]

That's the warp shell bubble.

[Charles Liu]

Yeah. That's the thing that Miguel Alcubierre suggested in his calculations.

[Chuck Nice]

Up with you, man. You are out of this world. I'm telling you right now. It's like we just mentioned warp driving. You're like, Michel Incubiere. I'm like, where do you come up with that?

[Charles Liu]

I didn't come up with it.

[Chuck Nice]

Michelle Ecubieri.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, no. He's a guy. There's a lot written about that idea. Enabling. Okay. That paper would have been intriguing and interesting just by itself in the scientific community, but sci fi people took it.

[Chuck Nice]

And ran with it. Ran with it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh my gosh.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, you just opened up a whole new world for me.

[Charles Liu]

Well, enjoy it. It's kind of fun.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And by the way you pronounced it in a French way. But he's Spanish or Mexican.

[Charles Liu]

Mexican.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

He's Mexican.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, really?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, so it's just like. Michelle, what's up?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Wato.

[Charles Liu]

Miguel.

[Chuck Nice]

Miguel.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Miguel.

[Chuck Nice]

Miguel.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Miguel.

[Chuck Nice]

Miguel.

[Charles Liu]

Right. So yes, it is true that you pull space backward and forward, but in the continuity of Star Trek, the idea is after you've done the pulling, it snaps back into place and you haven't noticed any change because it happened so fast. So you don't have to worry about space, time and distances distorting on a long term basis. It just happens so quickly because you're traveling through space. Bubble, kind of.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, yeah.

[Charles Liu]

Treat space and traveling through space like that.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

Amazing. All right, let's go.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Keep going.

[Chuck Nice]

Here we go. This is. Oh, my goodness. I don't know how to say this.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You never know how to say anybody's name, so don't. Isn't that some exception to it?

[Chuck Nice]

I'm gonna call you Joe. This is Joe Samuel Lopez. He says hello, StarTalk Enterprise. Oh, I see what you did there. Joe J. Lo here from Portugal. Here's my simple question. What Star Trek characters do you identify with the most? And thank you. What a good race question.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I totally have an answer to that.

[Chuck Nice]

You have one too?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay.

[Charles Liu]

My answer is kind of a cop out. But actually the reason I like Star Trek is because I don't affiliate with any individual character. I like the stories separate from me.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's a cop out.

[Charles Liu]

That's what I told you.

[Chuck Nice]

Next.

[Charles Liu]

That's what I told you. No, no, no. What's yours?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, no, Chuck.

[Charles Liu]

Okay. Oh, Chuck.

[Chuck Nice]

So the one I like the most is Mr. Spock because I loved how logical he was and I thought it would be so great to live your life without emotion and never be affected by things. Just be able to assess them and analyze. But the one I truly identify with the most is Scotty because he's always freaking the hell out, you know, I can't do it. I'm sorry. She's got a blue cap and I can't do it. He like, he's. And he always did it, which is more like who I am. He always said he can't do it, but then he always. So it would be Scotty for real.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So for me, it's James Tiberius Kirk.

[Chuck Nice]

Really?

[Charles Liu]

Really.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Because I've been in leadership positions and you can lead in many different ways, all right? One of them is you can just lead by example. Another one is you can just follow what everyone wants you to do. So you're the leader because you're actually following them. All right? That's technically what our elected officials are supposed to do. Okay, then you manage rather than. Okay, so there are different ways to do that. For me, Kirk would get into his own fights. Jean Luc Picard, did he ever go into fisticuffs with anybody?

[Charles Liu]

Oh, yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

As much as Captain Kirk did.

[Charles Liu]

He didn't have to.

[Chuck Nice]

There was always a flashback, though there were certain times.

[Charles Liu]

Oh, you're referring to Tapestry. Yes, the episode where he gets stabbed through the heart by an angry nausicondo over a pool fight. Well, Dom jock, technically, but it ends.

[Chuck Nice]

Up ends up being the defining and pivotal moment of his life that allows him to be the dynamic decision, definitive person that he is, but sort of.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. I like the fact that Spock could not beat Kirk in a game of chess because Kirk made decisions that were not illogical, not always logical. Right. And that means he was more human. And being human and fully experiencing everything that makes you human means the emotions have to flow through you in some way that you can manage and control. Perhaps, but certainly express.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And so the fact that he would fight his own fights, he could outsmart computers. I always wanted that power. Okay. You know, the computer says, this is the prime director, we must do this. But wait a minute. You are yourself a contamination on the. We must.

[Chuck Nice]

Error, error, error, error.

[Charles Liu]

Sterilize.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's right, the sterilized episode. So he would put it into a do loop and the computer couldn't get out of it and the smoke would come out of the computer.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, but I think that that's really something that William Shatner had the writers put in more.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, he's laughing.

[Chuck Nice]

I just got a feeling that William Shatner was like, I am not going to be dumber than a computer and I certainly am not gonna be dumber than Nimoy. So you're gonna make me win at chess and beat the computer.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Like that is a little weird to come after the fact and beat the guy at chess.

[Charles Liu]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Who. Okay. So I identified immensely with his character.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow. Right along.

[Charles Liu]

That's cool.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, that's cool. I love. Yeah, that's cool. There's so many of them now. Like it's hard. That's a. You know, because.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, by the way, was it Sotheby's? Christie's had a Star Trek memorabilia auction.

[Charles Liu]

Yes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. And so I attended. It was a multi day thing. It was big and I attended. And one of the things they. This is obscure fact. One of the things they sold, they auctioned were foam phasers. It is the phaser on the hip of the stunt doubles in those scenes.

[Chuck Nice]

That makes sense. Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So that they don't get hurt.

[Chuck Nice]

So they don't get hurt by that.

[Charles Liu]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Chuck Nice]

Or break the phases because, you know, like they only had six of them.

[Charles Liu]

That's right.

[Chuck Nice]

Let's be honest.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So I just know it's cool. They thought of everything.

[Charles Liu]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

When you're filming, you got to do it. Very cool.

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[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

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[Chuck Nice]

All right, here we go. This is Bryant and Bryant says, how close are we developing a warp drive engine so that humans can have the ability to travel faster than light? So first of all, is faster than light travel, is it possible? I mean period?

[Charles Liu]

We were just talking about Miguel Cubieres warp drive idea, right? Where you can warp space. No object can travel through space faster than light. It's a straightforward rule.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Object as distinct from energy photons.

[Charles Liu]

If you have other things right, then they might be able to travel faster than that.

[Chuck Nice]

Now what about the whole idea of warping space, bending it so you're not traveling through the medium of space faster than the speed of light. What you're doing is you're bringing points of space together and then unfolding it so that you have traveled faster than the speed of light, but you have not broken the speed limit itself. What about that?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Aren't you effectively moving through a wormhole to connect Those two points, though, we're still in wormhole world here.

[Charles Liu]

What people are talking about when they're traveling faster than light is about moving from point A to point B at a speed faster than 186,202 miles per hour per second. Excuse me. It's that kind of thing. So what you were describing is. Exactly. Neil described some sort of passageway that makes a difference. Can we actually move from point A to point B at those speed? Still no. But can we make space allow us to get from a point A in space to point B in space faster than light would have taken us to get there? That is still mathematically possible. The energetics of it, though, are way off.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's mathematically possible.

[Charles Liu]

Well, Einstein's general theory of relativity, right. Shows the Einstein field equations, like the.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Way he says, dude, Einstein showed this.

[Charles Liu]

That's true.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I have to explain this.

[Charles Liu]

Okay, I didn't mean it that way, Chuck. I'm sorry. Just change that. With Einstein's general theory of relativity, his field equations, basically, only at this moment, even 100 years after they've been written, only have a few solutions that we understand. You can manipulate the mathematics of it in many, many different ways, most of which are nonsensical physically, but some of which might actually show that there is a possible way of moving through space and time with that sort of faster than light warping technique. But in order to do it with enough energy to move and motion and kinetic stuff, that's the part you get stuck. Because the math shows you ways you can warp space and time to make it happen. But actually getting a piece of mass like you and me or a spaceship from that point to that other point.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Requires a piece of ass or a piece of mass. What could you. Piece of ass like you and me. I swear that's what he said.

[Chuck Nice]

Well, both statements compliment no matter what. Okay, both statements are true.

[Charles Liu]

But. Both statements are true.

[Chuck Nice]

But he's referring to the mass I question, not Charles taste.

[Charles Liu]

Thank you.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Chuck Nice]

Here we go.

[Charles Liu]

Yeah. So that's how it works. You can move space and time, but moving a piece of material from one point in space and time to another point in space and time, that requires a lot more than just having the mathematical.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Well, let's settle that here. So it's not a matter of new physics. It's a matter of technology working within a solution to that already known physics.

[Charles Liu]

That's right.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow.

[Charles Liu]

And I think we're very, very far away from it.

[Chuck Nice]

Far away.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah. But possible is what I heard it.

[Charles Liu]

Has not been ruled out completely.

[Chuck Nice]

I love it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

All right.

[Chuck Nice]

Okay, here we go.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We'll get a few more minutes, see how many we can see.

[Chuck Nice]

Opal Lehman, space nerd. Opal Lehman, space nerd, says hi, my name is Opal Lehman. For Chuck. That's layman. Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

God.

[Chuck Nice]

I'm a 14 year old. Really? 14 too. Hey man, I'm a 14 year old Atlanta Georgian and I was wondering how the antimatter warp drive containment system works. I read somewhere in the Space Chronicles book that they would need to hold the antimatter in a chamber made of antimatter so it wouldn't have to interact with the matter. But I was wondering how the antimatter containment system would be held. Would it be suspended in a field of magnets or what?

[Charles Liu]

That is correct. And by the way, I love that a 14 year old is thinking about this.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's cool.

[Charles Liu]

Yeah, this is just a wonderful thing.

[Chuck Nice]

I love that a 14 year old.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Just dissed me or thought ahead of you to know that you.

[Chuck Nice]

I would need help there.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So what we're saying here is matter antimatter, of course, annihilates when they touch contact. But if it's contained within a magnetic vessel, a magnetic bottle of some kind, then it would basically bounce off the sides of the bottle without ever touching the matter that's exterior to it.

[Charles Liu]

You would need to make sure that your antimatter is charged either positively or negatively. And then you would create the bottle with that same kind of charge and it would be contained inside this so called bottle. But it's not actually a physical bottle, it's not a physical matter.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And by the way, the charges, the.

[Chuck Nice]

Field is the bottle.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I'm getting the charges interact with the magnetic field. And why do they do that? Because it is one force, the electromagnetic force. They go together.

[Chuck Nice]

That's really cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's why they're not just separate entities.

[Chuck Nice]

That is so cool.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's why they can talk to each other.

[Chuck Nice]

That's amazing. And then because they're like charged, it's kind of bouncing off of it.

[Charles Liu]

That's right.

[Chuck Nice]

Dude, that's amazing.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Exactly.

[Chuck Nice]

I love it. God, even science fiction is awesome as science. That's so great. All right, all right, here we go. This is Brian Lacy. Brian says hi guys, from Baltimore. Brian from Baltimore here. As our technological needs increase, so does our need for a strong and reliable power grid. In Star Trek, they're powering giant ships and even bigger space stations. I know fusion is always 20 years away, but in the far future, what are they using. Also how are they powering similar smaller devices like phasers.

[Charles Liu]

That's right.

[Chuck Nice]

That's amazing because a phaser is very small but a huge power source.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Right. So where's all the power come from? And don't just say dilithium crystals because.

[Chuck Nice]

I don't have enough, Captain. I don't have enough. Okay.

[Charles Liu]

It is a question that hasn't been satisfactorily answered. The idea must be that they have some sort of amazing battery. Right. Some sort of power supply that they can store enough power in like a phase.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You don't see them refueling anymore.

[Charles Liu]

That's right. You can. You can wipe out entire buildings with something that's just in the palm of your hand.

[Chuck Nice]

And that makes sense because they can actually set phasers to overload, which I don't know why you would ever include overlap.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

What happens in overload?

[Charles Liu]

They blow up.

[Chuck Nice]

They blow bombs.

[Charles Liu]

You can use them as a bomb devices, right?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, yeah. Well, that's that sound it makes that.

[Charles Liu]

Just so you know it's about to blow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, right.

[Charles Liu]

Yeah. So the. The way that you draw power out of something like that must be through some sort of a battery or a capacitor or something like that. But it has never been properly described just how that could be put into something.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Just quickly tell everyone what a capacitor is.

[Charles Liu]

Capacitor is basically two plates of conducting things like metal.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Typically.

[Charles Liu]

Yeah. And you can store charge on one, waiting to jump onto the other. Basically, it's something that can work like a battery, but transfer a huge amount of electricity very quickly. So for example, defibrillators have a capacitor in them. You have the battery charged with capacitor. And then when the defibrillator goes off, the capacitor sends thousands of volts in a fraction of a second.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And that's how that from one contact to the other.

[Charles Liu]

Correct.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And it goes through the heart, ideally.

[Charles Liu]

To pump it into, reset it. Unfortunately, the power sources of these devices have never been properly described in any of the episodes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

How convenient.

[Charles Liu]

You just have to assume that some battery or some capacity ambassador has incredible power.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so Chuck, I don't know how much we got time for like one more question, really.

[Chuck Nice]

Aw, man. Dog going in.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Here we go.

[Chuck Nice]

This is Steph. And Steph says, Captain's log 2024 Alpha Omega. Greetings Dr. Tyson, Lou and Lord Chuck. Nice. And that's enough of that from me. He says, as we reflect on the world of Star Trek, which is set around the year 2260, I wonder about the Feasibility of achieving the advanced technology depicted in the series by that time. Considering how Back to the Future 2 envisioned the technological landscape of the early 2000s and how closely it aligned with our actual progress, Aside from the absence of flying cars, what are the prospects of realizing similar advancements as portrayed in Star Trek by the year 2260? So, you know, what are we looking at? Are we really looking at. Okay, I'll put it to you this way to call this down. What percentage of these technological wonders that we see in Star Trek will actually.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Exist by the year or within 200 years?

[Charles Liu]

Within 200 years. My prediction, 1%.

[Chuck Nice]

D. That is so disappointing.

[Charles Liu]

Not at all. 1% of all the stuff that was shown out there.

[Chuck Nice]

That's true.

[Charles Liu]

That's a lot of great stuff. Think of what's already happening. Happened, Right. Communicators, video calls. We were talking about this.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, we're talking about that.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Charles Liu]

There's a lot that's already existed. We've basically hit the point in Star Trek technology where we are doing stuff that our regular.

[Chuck Nice]

Break that up. Treknology, because that's really cool.

[Charles Liu]

It's a long, long. No, Treknology is a long oft used phrase. Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Technology.

[Charles Liu]

Where have I been? No credit for it. That's great.

[Chuck Nice]

Go ahead.

[Charles Liu]

Anyway, yeah, so we've reached the point where the stuff we don't know how it works yet basically needs physics we don't understand yet. So if 1 out of 100 of the physics we don't understand is resolved, I'm happy. I'm psyched.

[Chuck Nice]

All right, gotcha. But yes, I see what you're doing there. So you're relating it back to the actual science, the discoveries that we may make that will allow these technological advances to come true.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's why I made the point earlier. Are we missing physics or are we missing technology?

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And one has to come that generally one doesn't occur without the other. In a scenario where you've got technology doing amazing, fun things, right, you need the attendant physics to go with it.

[Charles Liu]

I think that's where we are now. And I'm excited because we are doing amazing things in our discoveries, in our studies. And once we break through that physics level, what is dark matter? What is dark energy?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Just to start with, dark energy is opposite gravity. Everything it does is what gravity does not want it to do. And so if we can harness that.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, my God. Yeah, exactly. You're talking about an entirely new realm of physics opening up.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Realm of physics.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Charles Liu]

That's just.

[Chuck Nice]

Wow. Now I'm excited.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Think about it realm of physics.

[Charles Liu]

It's a good thing.

[Chuck Nice]

That's a really exciting way to look at it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Other realms of physics in 1900 and a little early were the first hints of something unusual going on inside of atoms. And we are now in the centennial decade of the development and discovery of quantum physics.

[Chuck Nice]

Interesting.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That enables computers absolutely no storage creation, storage or retrieval of information, digital information without an exploitation of the quantum quantum physics.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh my gosh.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

What a segue that was.

[Chuck Nice]

Right back to the handy handy answer book.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah.

[Chuck Nice]

That's really cool, man.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Now here's something that clearly will never come true because it hasn't come true yet.

[Charles Liu]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Every sci fi movie in the future everyone's wearing the same clothes.

[Charles Liu]

Ah.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Have you noticed that everybody got these shoulder things and they're all wearing the same.

[Chuck Nice]

I am gleep.

[Charles Liu]

Right, Right. Exactly right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We have resisted that to this day.

[Charles Liu]

And I think that's because it's one of the easiest things to resist. We want to make things uniform, we want to make things predictable. But we want to keep ourselves unpredictable as individuals.

[Chuck Nice]

As individuals.

[Charles Liu]

And what's the easiest way to easiest.

[Chuck Nice]

Way of self expression is to what you. What you put on your body.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's good. I like that.

[Chuck Nice]

Or not.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

As anybody who has a young child knows they will go to through a phase where they're like I'm going to be naked. And this is just how I am.

[Charles Liu]

You know, I remember those. They were very freeing.

[Chuck Nice]

Yes. And he's just like we're at a restaurant. You can't do it right now. He's just like I don't care about your food. I want to be naked.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Is that how your children speak? I had a 16 year old high school girl in this office. In fact that chair who was not even part of the original invite of who came to my office. It was her boyfriend who was a big astrophysics fan and he just dragged her. Only would I learn. Because I like engaging everyone who comes into my office. Because there were four of them in there. Because it was the kid, his sister, both their parents and the guy's girlfriend.

[Charles Liu]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And she was just sitting there and I just tried to engage everybody and I'd say what are you into? And I forgot what she said. But she said she really likes Star Trek.

[Charles Liu]

Hey.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And I said she's 16. I said whoa. Like by how much do you like Star Trek? She said I brought you a gift. I don't know how she got it. This is the Federation Trivia book.

[Charles Liu]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Mission one and mission two.

[Charles Liu]

Whoa.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

This is back when this was like, type. You know, typewriter, typeface. So I'm gonna. Let's see if Charles can maintain.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, he's gonna.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

His geek and she's gonna blow this.

[Chuck Nice]

He's gonna blow it away.

[Charles Liu]

I'm not sure, Guy. I'll play along with this.

[Chuck Nice]

Fine.

[Charles Liu]

But I'm not that good. This sort of stuff.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

This is 50 pages. Here it is.

[Charles Liu]

I'm not that good at this sort of stuff.

[Chuck Nice]

All right, here we go.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Here we go. Revised second edition, 1976.

[Charles Liu]

Oh, my gosh. I don't know.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Who is D.C. fontana?

[Charles Liu]

Oh, she's a very famous science fiction writer who wrote a number of beautiful episodes of Star Trek.

[Chuck Nice]

Look, what'd I tell you?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, okay, okay, okay. What is Spock's last name?

[Charles Liu]

You couldn't pronounce it.

[Chuck Nice]

Good answer. Well played.

[Charles Liu]

Well played.

[Chuck Nice]

Well played.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Well played. Okay, what is Sulu's first name?

[Charles Liu]

Hikaru.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Damn.

[Chuck Nice]

Look at you, man, killing this.

[Charles Liu]

Just getting lucky, guys.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

In what year was Flint born?

[Charles Liu]

I do not know.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Who's Flint?

[Charles Liu]

I don't remember Flint.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

What happened to Scotty in the Changeling?

[Charles Liu]

I should know this, but I don't. He got changed, I guess, into a ling.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. Name the woman Kirk cannot help loving.

[Charles Liu]

Is that Joan Collins?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No. Isn't it the nurse. Nurse Chapel.

[Chuck Nice]

Oh, that's right. No, but it's not Nurse Chapel. They made him love her.

[Charles Liu]

Well, there was one where when he touched the tears of a particular alien woman, you would have to fall in love with this woman.

[Chuck Nice]

Right.

[Charles Liu]

But unfortunately, they actually broke that spell because his one true love was the Enterprise. I remember that.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, see, I wanna be Kirk.

[Charles Liu]

I'm Kirk.

[Chuck Nice]

He loves his children.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

A couple more. Just a couple more.

[Chuck Nice]

I think that's because he had, you know, sex with so many aliens. He. You know.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I know, right, right.

[Chuck Nice]

It was like, whatever.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Right. Who is JoJo Cracko? Charles.

[Charles Liu]

I. Sorry. You know, I'm not that JoJo Cracko. Oh, he sounds like someone from the piece of the action. But I don't remember the exact names.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, that was one of my least favorite episodes.

[Charles Liu]

Really?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, totally. Okay.

[Chuck Nice]

Worst gangster name ever.

[Charles Liu]

Well, that was the point they were trying to make.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, see, I'm JoJo Cracko.

[Charles Liu]

See?

[Chuck Nice]

Nah, that's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, what was the planet in the Man Trap?

[Chuck Nice]

It was the planet. Hey.

[Charles Liu]

I'm sorry, I'm drawing a blank. I don't know that one, alas.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so you're not infallible. Absolutely. That was the evidence. That's what we needed here.

[Charles Liu]

Oh, please.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Our geek in chief has some blind spots.

[Chuck Nice]

Yeah, the blind spots that you would have to be a writer of Star.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Trek not to have.

[Chuck Nice]

You have to be one of the writers to know these things.

[Charles Liu]

I am happy to not know everything. I want to learn more, I want to gain more. Okay, so now that's the thing we do.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Here's what we're gonna do. When I think of science fiction and storytelling embedded within it, often it's not just allegory for the challenges that we face in everyday life. At its best, it's that, yes, but for me, they also represent dream states of a future that if we try hard enough that we can make happen, and we know it's not going to happen without our collective investments, without our collective sense of what we want to be there waiting for us in the future. But I ask myself, without science fiction, would we still be in the caves without somebody thinking about a future and what role science, technology, invention and innovation, without what role those could play in our lives? I don't want to live in that world. I want to always live not just believing, but knowing that we will all be living differently tomorrow than we are today. And not just differently, living better. Star Trek not only gave us a glimpse into what the future of science and technology might bring, each episode at its best was also a morality tale. Because what good is the power of science and technology going into the future without the wisdom to harness it, to do right by it, to do right by your neighbor in the presence of such power? So if there's a world without science fiction, I don't want to live in it. Keep it coming so that we can all dream about a tomorrow that's better than today. That is a cosmic perspective. The two of you, professionally, in your lives, have served as radio announcers, correct?

[Charles Liu]

That is true.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so I have not, but I've pretended I was at times. I want you in sequence to give me your smoothest radio voice saying, this has been startalk. Keep looking up. Okay, Your smoothest radio voice. We're gonna come down the line there and the audience is gonna get it three times. Okay? Go, Charles.

[Charles Liu]

This has been startalk. Keep looking up.

[Chuck Nice]

This has been startalk. Keep looking up.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

This has been startalk. Keep looking up.

[Unknown]

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[Chuck Nice]

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[Charles Liu]

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[Chuck Nice]

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