Startup Stories - Mixergy

Episode #2287: AI made a "no code" founder into a coder
Host: Andrew Warner
Guest: Ben Tossell (Head of Developer Relations, Factory; Founder of MakerPad)
Date: December 8, 2025

Overview

This episode features Ben Tossell, renowned founder of MakerPad—a leading no-code community acquired by Zapier. Now Head of Developer Relations at Factory, Ben discusses his journey from a non-technical founder to someone empowered by AI to "code" without coding, the realities of post-exit founder life, the evolution of no-code, and how AI is changing both the developer experience and business landscape.

1. Ben’s Journey: From No-Code Founder to AI-Enabled "Coder"

• Selling MakerPad & the Founder’s Dilemma

  • Ben created the number one no-code builders community, sold to Zapier, then questioned his next move.
  • Discusses the emotional aftermath post-acquisition: "You had this community...and then all of a sudden they just don't need you anymore or you don't need them." (02:00)
  • Post-sale, Ben felt adrift—a typical founder story: "There's some sort of loss of self or loss of something…" (01:44)

• On Not Rushing into Another Startup

  • Ben assessed what he really wanted, rejecting service business models, recurring content "treadmills," or heavily managed teams.
  • "I had a list of like 20 ideas that I hadn't done anything with, which to me is a signal to myself that I'm not interested enough." (03:59)

2. The Hard Reality vs. Hype of Startup and No-Code

• Startup Myths and Chores
  • Andrew draws analogies to needing to be janitor, marketer, everything in a startup, not just “founder” (04:44).
  • Ben notes no-code and AI haven’t eliminated founder pain or uncertainty—in fact, they create more to manage.
  • "It's all those different context switching between all these different things all of the time…you can work on even more stuff now." (06:26)

3. No-Code’s Promise and Limitations

• Why MakerPad?

  • Ben: "The whole reason I started it was I couldn't code. I still can't code. Traditionally. Everyone told me if you wanted to be CEO...you have to learn to code." (07:22)
  • He built dozens of projects with visual tools—none sold, but people kept asking how he did it, inspiring MakerPad's educational focus.

• No-Code is Still Programming

  • Ben reflects that using no-code is still about logic, debugging, and system thinking:
  • "I'm still teaching programming but in a different format. The tools just look different...your Zapier connection didn't work and you got to debug that…" (09:15)

• No-Code isn’t ‘For Everyone’

  • "My mum still won't build an app, even with these tools...you've got to want to do the building bit." (10:10)

4. The Evolving Role of AI: Becoming a “Coding” Bridge

• Ben Embraces Coding—With an Asterisk

  • After no-code and time at Zapier, Ben wants more technical control and understanding, now uses AI to bridge his knowledge gap.
  • "I couldn't sit down and write lines of code. I would have no idea where to start…But I feel the original thesis of MakerPad was right, you don't need to learn to code. But, it might help." (12:00)

• AI as Translator & Reasoning Partner

  • Andrew summarizes Ben’s workflow: "You created these AI tools for yourself that allows you to communicate with developers by having it translate what developers are doing and tell you in English and having you tell software in English what you want and have it converted to developer talk." (13:14)
  • Ben confirms: "Yes, very fair." (14:05)

• AI Lowers Barriers, But Motivation Still Matters

  • "AI is making people more technically able...and also more curious...I was not interested in learning until I could start building stuff." (14:46)

5. AI in Action: Factory’s Coding Agent Systems

(Screen Share Demo @15:42–24:20)

• Managing Teams and Coding via AI

  • Ben built an agent system that monitors work in project management (Linear), codebase, and docs, providing a true "source of truth."
  • Uses Factory's Droid CLI—a chat-like Terminal tool—to ask questions about project status, shipped features, and discrepancies.
  • "This, like the summary here, is showing me what did I ask and then gives me a quick summary of...what's tracked in Linear that isn't yet shipped..." (17:59)

• AI Reduces Tedious Cross-App Research

  • Details a system that cross-checks project tickets, code status, and documentation, all assembled by AI on command.
  • Ben: “There's no actual code written for this. This is just one big instruction manual.” (21:07)

• Importance of AI Instructions

  • Shows his prompt document for Droid, teaching it to scan various systems and summarize status.
  • "Provide a one or two sentence answer that states what's shipped, what's in progress, and any caveats." (25:00)
  • Prompt engineering loop: Ben iterates with AI until he gets a great answer, then asks AI to generate its own prompt for future use. (27:36, 28:59)

6. Getting Comfortable with "Developer" Tools

• Overcoming Terminal Anxiety

  • Ben got comfortable with the command line through tools like Warp (AI-powered terminal) and CLI-based AI chat tools:
  • "I can type in, 'hey, can you create a folder?'...it will translate that. I can just talk to it like a normal person..." (31:19)

• What AI+CLI Unlocks

  • Now uses Terminal for all sorts of automation—setting up projects, manipulating files, running agents, etc.
  • "In a sentence or two, I could have that done and handled and all done correctly and set up." (33:36)

7. Business Building Tactics: MakerPad’s Growth Playbook

• Audience First, Product Second

  • Ben built a mailing list by sharing his projects, then pre-sold tutorial access via Typeform for $15. Even 15 buyers was enough to launch (35:57–36:32).
  • Early growth was simple: free content on Twitter, collecting emails, then upselling full tutorials.

• Community Building

  • Slack was for paid members; Ben actively led by example, posting, replying, and creating a safe, accessible space.
  • "If you're not in there talking, no one else is gonna be in there talking...you're gonna lead by example." (37:40)

• Social Growth Hacks

  • Commented quickly under posts by tech leaders (e.g., Sam Altman, Sundar Pichai) to ensure visibility—driving newsletter signups. (41:17)

• Community Content Creation

  • Hired community members as tutorial creators, guided them via simple structures, but allowed for authentic voices. (42:42–44:33)
  • Consistency in tutorial style made MakerPad seem larger and more professional.

8. Money and Motivation Post-Exit

• Despite a life-changing exit ("I can't say" the exact amount), Ben confesses: "I spent a lot of money, so I do need to work now..." (46:42)
• The real lesson is not that money eliminates the need to work but that creative work is personally fulfilling: "I only care about working. Like, I actually need to work. There's a creative part of me that's essential." (46:56)

9. Investment and the Next Chapter

• Ben started investing (Ben’s Bytes Fund), often backing founders from his newsletter audience network. Factory (current employer) was one such investment.
• He sees more opportunity for non-technical people using AI: "There's a new way of what things look like now and we can figure this out together." (49:19)

10. The (Un)realistic Promise of Solo AI "Superfounders"

• Ben is skeptical of the "one-person $10 billion company" meme, noting it's lonely and collaboration is human nature—even if agents help.
  • "We'll see how that truly plays out and when. And if it does..." (51:09)
• Andrew sees hope in the direction: "If her vision was the Internet will do everything...she got a lot closer because she kept that North Star." (51:13)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Deflating the AI/No-Code “Everything is Easy” Dream:
  "It feels like you can work on even more stuff now...people are going to get worse off feeling like they should be really productive..." — Ben (06:36)

• On AI’s Real Impact:
  "AI is making people more technically able...and also making people more curious." — Ben (14:37)

• On Solo Foundership via AI:
  "We'll see how that truly plays out and when. And if it does, you know." — Ben (51:09)

• On Work After Wealth:
  "There's a creative part of me that like, is essential. Otherwise I'm just sitting here and wasting away." — Ben (46:56)

• Prompt Engineering Inspiration, via Gary Tan:
  "Kept going back and forth and saying, look, here's the finished product. I want you to create something like this...Then give me a prompt that will get to that…" — Andrew (28:26)

Highlighted Timestamps

• Ben’s Post-Exit Experience: 01:40–02:22
• No-Code = Programming: 09:15–10:10
• AI as Translator/Agent: 13:14–14:08
• Factory CLI Demo: 15:42–24:20
• How MakerPad Bootstrapped: 35:57–36:53
• Social Growth Hack Example: 41:17
• MakerPad Community Dynamics: 37:40
• Prompt Engineering Process: 27:36–28:59
• Creative Work Essential After Exit: 46:56

Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is forthright, honest, and practical—eschewing hype for grounded realities. Ben is self-deprecating but innovative, candid about the highs and lows of entrepreneurship, and excited about how AI augments, but doesn’t wholly replace, technical and creative skills. The message is clear: AI can empower non-developers, but curiosity, community, and creative drive are the enduring assets for making things that matter.

Listen to this episode for deep, unvarnished insights into how today’s founders navigate work, identity, technology, and community in an age where AI blurs old boundaries.