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- [00:00]
A
Are you marketing to agents now?
- [00:02]
B
The agent is actually choosing what products to buy on behalf of a human. And so you're no longer advertising to the human. You are trying to get the agent to say, pick me, pick me, pick me.
- [00:13]
A
Is SaaS dead?
- [00:15]
B
Our CPTO vibe coded like a meeting recording software. It's a cool proof of concept, but we're not canceling our subscriptions anytime soon to our meeting recording software.
- [00:24]
A
You have a clawed skill that helps you lead.
- [00:26]
B
He calls it his war council. What this skill is, is if you have a particular problem or a decision you're making, you can just say, hey, I want to invoke the war council to like, advise me on this.
- [00:35]
A
Do a screen share. Let's see how you work.
- [00:37]
B
Sure. Okay, here we go.
- [00:39]
A
Wade Foster is the founder of Zapier, the AI automation company. You told me about someone who you hired recently who impressed you, this agent marketing guy. What's agent marketing?
- [00:53]
B
Well, so I think this is a new thing that folks on the cutting edge are paying attention to, which is the agent is actually choosing what products to buy on behalf of a human. And so you're no longer advertising to the human. You are trying to get the agent to say, pick me, pick me, pick me. And that is often a very different skill set than marking to a human. You know, with human, there's all sorts of, like, advertising history around, like consumer psychology and like, how do you position these things? And the way an agent makes a decision is somewhat different than how a human makes this decision. And so, you know, this person is building all sorts of tools to like, track, like, you know, when does ChatGPT recommend this tool or not? When does, like, you know, Claude recommend this or that and why do they recommend it? And then trying to figure out, how do you like, you know, structure your content, structure your API, structure your CLI tools such that more often than not, it's going to say, oh, when I have this problem, I want to go use that vendor versus that other vendor.
- [01:52]
A
You know what, I had that experience. I used cloud code and I said, okay, now how do I publish it? It said, I can just publish it to Vercel. I go, I never heard of Vercel before, but okay, go ahead, if that's what you can do. And I did it. And then a few days later, I was at a cloudflare event and they talked about how they can do the same thing, but better. And I said, wait, I would have preferred all those features, but I, I had no idea you even existed. So what are you finding that is effective for marketing to agents?
- [02:18]
B
Well, so agents care a ton about like clean documentation, like fast web pages. So, you know, if it's like the thing I'm seeing a lot of folks do is serve up a separate version of their webpage that is meant just for the agent. And so that content is like plain text. It's served up like really fast. And it's like written like very. It's like very descriptive, almost like mechanical. Because like, that's what the agent prefers. It's like I want to have just like give me just the facts in like an easy to consume way. Very clear, very direct. And as a result, like, it, you know, it's able to like, understand what you're offering much better. Whereas like, you know, a human cares a ton about the design, like the visual design and things like that agent, it's not so much. Right. So it's a different. You just kind of have to like, figure out like, what is the thing that it's actually optimizing. And I'll be honest, like, a lot of this is, you know, very much like a more art than science right now. Yes. People are building evals and, you know, things like that to kind of track it.
- [03:24]
A
But
- [03:26]
B
yeah, when you ask like, people who are really good at this, their answers are like very hand wavy still.
- [03:34]
A
So what did he say or do that made you think? Okay, he's got this.
- [03:38]
B
Well, I think just the level of experimentation is just much, much more.
- [03:41]
A
He's experimenting so much.
- [03:43]
B
Exactly.
- [03:44]
A
But how do you even figure it out? Wade, you do a test, it takes a while for the agent to even know that you existed, let alone to know that you've made the change. What do you do to test and know quickly?
- [03:54]
B
I mean, they're just like running a bunch of queries. They're having their friends run a bunch of queries. They're trying to pay attention to these things. There's like automated techniques that they're using.
- [04:03]
A
Yeah.
- [04:04]
B
So there's, there's, you know, it's just like a lot of trial and error.
- [04:10]
A
It's a lot of trial and then going in and doing a query and seeing what the response is. And then there are tools that you use to figure that out. We did a. I did an interview, frankly, with people on your team who talked to me about some of the software that you use. We'll have it up on the channel for people to see that. Okay, so it's trial, error. Keep measuring and seeing the results and start to get some clear understanding of how they think. And one of the things that you said is clear, a lot of documentation, clear writing, serve up even a second page just for the agents. What else? What am I missing?
- [04:37]
B
You know, those are, those are kind of the big things that I've heard of right now, Wade, everyone is talking
- [04:44]
A
about whether companies are going to be buying SaaS or are they going to be building everything internally. You told me about someone on your team who built something really cool internally that you could have bought. What is it and who is it?
- [04:53]
B
Well, our cpto, like Vibe coded like a meeting recording, like software, you know, sort of like a, like a fathom or a granola or you know, a grain or something like this. And you know, it's, it's a cool proof of concept, but we're not canceling our subscriptions anytime soon to our meeting recording software.
- [05:12]
A
Why not?
- [05:13]
B
Why not?
- [05:13]
A
You can build it, you can save yourself some money.
- [05:16]
B
You can't, you can't like the maintenance on this stuff, like the tokens you burn, setting it up. Like, you know, at the end of the day, like these products are not that expensive and the teams behind them are just putting so much effort in polishing them, making them better, advancing their capabilities. And those are all things that we would have to staff engineers to keep working on them. And yes, it's gotten so much cheaper to build things, but I think we would rather deploy that engineering power to making our stuff better versus, you know, improving our internal tools.
- [05:47]
A
You know what? I have an example of that. I built myself the ideal calorie counting app. And Wade, it is so perfect. It's like right on my watch, which is the app that I use all the time. And still there's always like an edge case, random thing that comes up that I have to go and handle. It makes me realize, oh, of course that company already thought of that. That's what you're talking about. You don't want to divert your people.
- [06:08]
B
Yeah, exactly. And it's like for, you know, for. I think Vibe coding is fantastic for building tools that you can't buy or these like, like smaller utilities where it's like, hey, this is core to serve like a one off and piece of software that I need to use to solve a particular job. Fantastic. We're seeing so much more of that stuff happen. But for like load bearing infrastructure inside of a company, there's not a lot that we're building and replacing. Like, there's a lot of really good software out there that we're very happy to continue being customers of.
- [06:40]
A
And overall software is. What would you say, what percentage of the business spend?
- [06:45]
B
It's minimal. You know, it's, it's like single digit percentage. It's so small compared to like headcount, essentially.
- [06:53]
A
Really, that is what it comes down to for enterprise. It's one thing for an individual like me to say, I don't want to spend money on a calorie counting app that's going to charge me 20 bucks a month. It's another thing for a company to say, it's, it's just a small price and a big distraction.
- [07:06]
B
Yeah, it's a drop in the bucket of. And another thing to maintain, support, pay attention to, etc. Let another company who cares about that deeply be awesome at that thing.
- [07:17]
A
You know, let me be honest with you, Wade. I'm kind of shot out of a cannon right now. Like, this energy is a lot of high energy and I'm trying to restrain it. But I have to be honest with you, even when I'm off mic, I'm talking like this all the time. I'm like, hey, Olivia, check out what I could just do right now. This is amazing. Look, my Clubbot just did this and that. She's like, I get it. Tone it down a little bit. But I can't. I'm so freaking excited about it that sometimes, and honestly, it clouds my judgment. Before we got started, first of all, do you feel any of this or is it just me?
- [07:43]
B
Well, I'll tell you one. I built so a guy who runs all our social stuff built a, a skill that's going viral inside the company right now. It's, it's something you've been able to do for a while. So it's not actually new, but it's the, the way in which he deployed it is somewhat novel. And he calls it his war council. And so what this skill is, is it's if you have a particular problem or decision you're making, so say like you're trying to decide on hiring a new person or say you're trying to decide whether you should enter, enter a market or not, or buy a company or not, or, you know, just think of any like, type of decision you might make on a day to day basis, no matter how big or how little. And so, you know, you can give it all the like, you know, research you've done on the decision and then you can just say, hey, I want to invoke the war council to like advise me on this. And so what it does is it spins up sub agents that represent Personas, and they're standing members of the council. So, like, I have the ruthless. The ruthless cfo, the wartime operator, the, like, compassionate, you know, customer support person. And then for each scenario, it will also spin up dynamic Personas. So if you ask it about hiring, it will spin up like a hiring expert. It will spin up a domain expert for the role. If you're asking about, like, a product, you know, experience, it'll spin up a cto. It'll spin up like a, you know, like a Steve Jobs, like, you know, design visionary type person. And then all these, like, sub agents go out and. And, like, debate and critique the problem, and they come back and they give. Each one gives, like, their response to it. And then there's a master agent, like the head of the council, that sort of summarizes it and says, here's what I think it should do. And then it says, if I had $1,000, like, here's what I would bet, you know, that the answer happens to. To be. And again, like, you could. You could have done this, like, you know, any time in the last couple of years. You could have spun it up. But, like, the new skills, like techniques, the ability to launch sub agents, the ability to think for longer makes the experience so much more fun. And so, like, you know, I was, like, telling my wife. I was like, chelsea, like, can I show you my workouts? It's just. It's. It's just. I don't know, like, I feel like a kid playing video games again.
- [09:48]
A
Right, so is this, like, an internal tool that they built using. Using Opus?
- [09:54]
B
Well, so I'll tell you how I built it by the guy that's run social for us. We catch up 15 minutes every other week. And he's always, like, building crazy stuff. And so I'm always asking him, like, tell me what new thing you built? And he's like, wait, I gotta tell you about my war council. And so, you know, he. He explains what it is to me. And I was like, that's incredible. And so here's how I built it. I got off the call, and I have Cursor hooked up to Granola. And so the. The meeting was recorded with Granola. And so I said, hey, Granola, or. Or go. Go fetch that meeting I just had with Ryan. And in it, he describes the war council he built. Build that for me.
- [10:36]
A
And it just did it.
- [10:37]
B
It just did it. Yeah. And, like, you know, I. I popped open the skill and looked at it, and I was like, all right, looks good to me. Like, I didn't I didn't have any other critiques, but it was like, it was perfect. And that's all I had to do is like, I. I never actually saw what he specifically built. I literally just had him describe it to me. And then I just told Cursor. I'm like, hey, can you take the notes and just, just do the same thing, please?
- [11:00]
A
And the way that you do it is you do it as a skill, not as like, just a software.
- [11:06]
B
Yeah, this is a skill, like, which is just a, like a markdown file that, you know, I can call anytime I want to use it. So, like, if I'm going back and forth on a particular decision, I can say, hey, I want the war council to advise me on this. And then the skill fires in and, like, launches all these sub agents and, you know, goes and does the debate,
- [11:24]
A
you know, funny, I'm actually talking to a guy. I can only talk to him at 7pm, 7:30, because he works during the day, but he's been selling Skills online as a subscription. SaaS. Skills, a subscription. I'm wondering, what do you think of that? Do you think that Skills will eventually be anything near the nearly as valuable as software?
- [11:47]
B
I think Skills are the inspiration behind Skills is way more useful. They're not hard to build at all. Like, they're. They're just a document with instructions and guides to them. They kind of remind me of like this. Remember, like, I mean, shoot, this would have been like 15 years ago. There was all these like, WordPress theming businesses, right? Where, you know, you could go find like a skin for your WordPress site and people would sell them for like, you know, buy this one for $10, buy this one for 15. Things like that. I could see Skills kind of having like a business model like that where it's like you could buy, you know, buy one for five bucks, ten bucks, there'll be a bunch of free skills out there. You know, it feels kind of like a very commodity thing at a certain point in time, but there is value in just seeing what other skills people have have built. Because, you know, like, the creativity of these users is. What's so cool is you're like, oh, wow, I like the way you did that. I want to use that too.
- [12:45]
A
What's an example of a question that you took to your war council skill and what's the outcome that you couldn't have gotten to without that was valuable?
- [12:52]
B
Well, I love using them for hiring decisions because it is very critical. And so, you know, I find that humans, when you go through hiring processes have all sorts of, like, biases built into them. I think one, you find this. It's hard for humans to say no to, like, candidates that are good. It gets harder to say no as the interview goes along. So, like, two people before you said yes. Now are you going to be the person that says no? So you get more of that. And also, humans, I find, are not often as, like, critical. And so, you know, they'll ask, like, a surface level question and then kind of move on to the next thing. And they don't necessarily dig as much to be like, is this person really, really good? And so as a result, when you score against the rubric, I find that human graders, on average, tend to be a little softer. Now, that's not generally. That's not universally true. I've seen, like, human evaluators be, like, very, very strict, too. But, yeah, I think the. The War Council is, like, it. It plays its role, and it tells you exactly what it sees. It's not influenced by, you know, these other things. It just. It just calls it like it sees it. And as a result, I find it to be a really helpful tool at keeping the panel honest, keeping me honest on a decision where I can find myself sort of, like, feeling one way or the other. And then you. You talk to it, and it, like, really grounds the decision. And you're like, then you have to think about it. Like, if it disagrees with you, you're like, why does it disagree with me?
- [14:25]
A
What's another decision that you took to it?
- [14:29]
B
Let's see. I've. I've got. What was a recent one that I was working with it on? I had. Oh, I was. I was reviewing a bunch of sales data, and I was trying to figure out, like. Like, some of the stuff was good, Some of the stuff we were doing wasn't so good. And I was, like, trying to figure out what kind of feedback I needed to give. And so I first, like, went back and forth with it without invoking the skill, just, like, pulling in a bunch of context, loading in a bunch of data. And then finally I was like, okay, I want the War Council to advise on this. Like, what is. Like, where are we winning and where are we losing all this? Like, what do. What do you see and, like, what kind of feedback, you know, needs to be given? And so it, like, quickly summarized. It was like, here's the three things that are, like, most important. You're killing the first two. The third is like a bloodbath. You need to fix it. And so you're like, oh, okay, like that. It, like it put language to a thing I was maybe feeling but couldn't quite articulate yet.
- [15:34]
A
Can we give people your skill?
- [15:36]
B
Sure.
- [15:37]
A
Okay. I would love, by the way, at some point to see how you set up cursor because you're essentially using it the way that some people use ChatGPT, but with invoking different skills and different context. I guess you're kind of using it the way that Claude wants people to use. Claude Cowork. When can we see that?
- [15:54]
B
Yeah, it's. I mean, I use it as like a second brain. And so, you know, as part of this I have a bunch of context and inside a thing I call my copilot. And the copilot has the company strategy, it has our product strategy, it has
- [16:08]
A
show us without even. I know you've got some things that are open or private. Can you just show us the layout, the setup and how you, how you use it?
- [16:17]
B
Sure. So look, I like, you know, there's a lot of these tools. I like using cursor because you can switch between a bunch of different models. So you can see here I have like Clopus, Claude 4, 6, but I can switch into, you know, 5.3, Codex, Gemini 3, etc. Like very fast, which I find to be pretty useful. And you know, you just have this like chat tool here where you, before
- [16:38]
A
you do what, what are you finding that's more useful in one versus the other?
- [16:42]
B
So I think the. I find switching is really useful when you're working on a problem and you want to get again different perspectives. So like I'll have it critique its work. One thing I've found is that like Opus is like more enjoyable to just like talk to and go back to it. Like sort of is it an easier conversationalist but like when I'm having it work on hard problems, it sometimes just like bugs out and doesn't do as good of a job. And so oftentimes for those I'll switch over to Codex5.3, which is the OpenAI model. And that again, it's not as good conversationally, but it is just like much, much better. And so like I was dealing with this like annoying bug with the. I had to build this like old MCP server for a tool that I was using and Claude was just like, it just, just like kept. I just kept going and going and just couldn't seem to get it right. And so I toggled over to GPT5.3 Codex and I said, hey, critique the prior agent's entire work and tell me where it's getting stuff wrong and then go fix it. And it was like, it's making this dumb mistake. I've got you.
- [17:50]
A
Oh, that's such a great idea. You know what? Even when I with my little programs, they're t times when it's just stuck and it can't solve it to be able to go say, hey, go critique. Figure out what it's missing. Okay, brilliant. Okay, so now I see your setup here. I see the beginning of it. What else? How else do you get context into it?
- [18:06]
B
Well, so, you know, basically you point cursor at a fi. At a file system which, you know, the file system is just like files on your machine. And you know, I usually keep the file system closed, but, you know, you can see here all the like, context that I've got into this thing. And so, you know, I have all my like daily. I have it create a daily brief and a daily review for me. So you can see a whole bunch of stuff there. You know, I've got a bunch of strategy stuff in there. You know, I've got. Oh, gosh, this is. I can't show you this because it
- [18:39]
A
has all your meeting notes.
- [18:40]
B
Well, it's just like some of the file names are just like. Like a giveaway on certain stuff as well too. But you can see I've got like strategy decisions, leadership people, meetings, initiatives. All this doesn't have.
- [18:51]
A
It doesn't look at all of those, does it? To consider any one question. It just has the ability to. And you it with an at symbol.
- [19:00]
B
Well, so here's the thing. I have. It does all this stuff is in the context because it's pointed at my co pilot. So it can go like crawl the system and find it on its own. But I can also say, you know, hey, like, you know, let's see, what's it. What's an interesting example.
- [19:19]
A
I'm trying to decide whether to continue this interview with Andrew.
- [19:22]
B
Yeah, I want to figure out if the I should keep working with Andrew or not, remember? So like, I could just ask it like this and it will, you know, sift through all of the context that I have shared. But I can also say remember to keep in mind the, you know, company strategy. Right. Something like that. So if I really want it to like, hey, like really index on this, I can do something like that.
- [19:52]
A
Okay. And do you do multiple skills at once? Like would you or sorry, would you say company strategy and use this skill? Or are you just picking so the
- [20:01]
B
one skills you can skills usually just have, like, keywords that you can evoke that invoke them on? So I can say, you know, you know, should I work with Andrew or not? Whoops. It probably doesn't know. We'll see the wrong Andrew. There are multiple Andrews. So should I work with Andrea or not? And then please invoke the war council. So, like, that I didn't have to do anything fancy. It just knows that I have a skill in here somewhere that is the war council. And I actually don't know where it is in this system, but it's in here somewhere. And, you know, the reason, you know, like, there's sort of like. Like, the fancy thing about, like, that I see a lot of people doing is, you know, a lot of people will get caught up on, like, the file system. They're like, how am I supposed to organize all that stuff? What is that all over there? It's, like, very confusing, honestly. It doesn't matter. Just, like, ask the agent to, like, build all that stuff for you. And so, you know, if I'm building out a skill, I'll just say, like, hey, make me a skill for this and put it in the skills. Like, put it where you think it goes. And so it just organized. It keeps everything organized for me. And when I. When I built out this whole structure, the way I built it out was I said, hey, I want to build out a system that makes me amazing as a CEO. Like, help me build out, like, create you to be an amazing copilot. Amazing, like chief of staff for me, as a. As a system, and build out a whole set of, like, markdown files and files and systems and all that stuff that, like, helps you help me, and you should get better as we work together more. And that's all I told it. And so it organized that entire file system for me. I don't really look at it all that often. It just. It's just there.
- [21:45]
A
You know, my one frustration with all this is that it's not in the cloud. And I know that that's a benefit too, but sometimes I'm on a different device or I want to be in. I want to be on my phone. Okay. One other thing that I'm wondering about with your setup is do you use mcp, like, Zapier's mcp to be able to, for example, draft an email? So once you come to a conclusion, you will. How do you invoke that? How do you say, use the Zapier MCP and draft an email for me?
- [22:12]
B
So you. You just can turn on like a bunch of. You can create your Zapier MCP server and then you add tools to it. So you could add like Slack Gmail calendar, you name it. And then you don't. Usually you don't have to like, again, you don't have to do any fancy stuff. You can just say, draft me an email. Please add, add this to my calendar event. Now, if you do say, use Zapier MCP to draft a email inside of Gmail for you. You will find that it, like, definitely gets it right. Sometimes if you don't like, if you're not that like, verbose with it, it will forget that it has access to use those tools. And you'll have to remind it and say, like, hey, remember you have access to these tools.
- [22:53]
A
Where do you give it to tools?
- [22:55]
B
Where?
- [22:55]
A
Yeah, where?
- [22:57]
B
So you can go to mcp.zapier.com and, and just start turning on tools.
- [23:02]
A
And then how do you tell Opus 4:6 in this case, or. Or Codex, how do you tell them that you've got that they have access to it?
- [23:11]
B
So they will know because you authenticate your client with Zapier mcp.
- [23:16]
A
So you press the button, you connect it into Claude. It now has it forever.
- [23:21]
B
Exactly. Just like if you were connecting like you're, you know, authenticating your Gmail account to a tool or your Twitter account to a tool or whatever, it's like big window pops up and says, I grant access and then boop, it sort of can go work with it.
- [23:33]
A
Honestly, I found it's so much easier. We can stop sharing soon. I found it so much easier to connect it to Claude than I did to connect it to. To chatgpt. Like the other day, I just said to Claude, do you have access to this? Can you do it? He goes, yeah, you gave it to me and I gave it to. Gave it via Zapier MCP chat. GPT is kind of frustrating that way. All right.
- [23:52]
B
Yeah, they're all kind of at different, like, parts in their journey on how good they are at working with connectors right now.
- [23:59]
A
You told me a few months ago, I'm not a developer, but I'm getting really into cloud code. You've gotten into it now. You've got a team of how many people working at Zapier?
- [24:07]
B
There's 800 people at Zapier.
- [24:09]
A
How do you get them to feel this level of. It's not me, but I'm gonna try it. And ideally, the level that where you are, where you want to go, say to Chelsea, you Gotta find out. You gotta see what I'm doing. How do you get them to that?
- [24:22]
B
So, you know, at Zapier, we have this value. Don't be a robot, build the robot. So like, I think we have a culture where the employee base is probably more leaned in on this stuff than probably most. Even still, we try and have a like, very vibrant culture of show and tell. And so we had a big summit last a couple of weeks ago where everyone came to la. At the summit, we did all sorts of workshops. And so at the workshops, people were showing off. Here's my chief of staff, like, and you know, those, those workshops were like standing room only because people are like, how do I want to learn how to do this stuff? We had hackathons where people are sitting around learning from each other. Training notes on this, you know. This week now, we are rolling out company wide. We're getting everybody in every function, not just engineering. So like marketing, sales, accounting, hr, all set up on either cursor, cloud code, or codex, one of the three. It's like you need to be using a tool like this as a daily driver of your work. Because the power of these tools is just so. It's so incredible. And especially when you hook them up to something like Zapier MCP and give it access to your tools and your data, the types of things you can do. It's just like jaw dropping.
- [25:32]
A
Like, what? So now I'm understanding what you're doing. I wouldn't have thought of it two
- [25:36]
B
years ago, but go ahead, I'll give you an example. So that analysis I did, I had the war council help me out with, on analyzing our sales data. What that was, was I had four different spreadsheets. Those, each spreadsheet had like 10 or 12 tabs in it. They all had like hundreds of rows of data in it. And so I don't know about you, but like, I don't consider like a spreadsheet my natural habitat. And so I'm looking at all this stuff and I can like, I can start to like, poke out some interesting things going on in there, but I'm like, it's hard for me to spot it all. And so I just fed all four of those spreadsheets into my AI system and I said, help me review first. I said, just like, help me review this stuff. Like, walk me through what's in, in these, these spreadsheets. Because I don't, I'm not exactly sure how to go through them. And so as it's going through, it's like, pointing out different things to me. I always like to start here, too, because I don't want to assume. I don't want to try and. One shot, the dang thing. Like, I like to. I like to check its work. And if I say, like, hey, help me review it, like, step by step, I can sort of get a feel for the files in the same way that it has a feel for the finals. But then eventually, when I get to the end, I'll just say, like, analyze all the themes that you see in here that you think are important for me as the CEO to know. And then it just loops over all this stuff, and it says, you know, here's your top performing reps. Here's reps that haven't closed a deal in the last six months. You know, here's where your lead handoffs are failing. You know, here's all this stuff. And I say, okay, great. Where in the. Like. Which. Which sheet tells you that? And so then I go in and look and look. It's not perfect. So, like, you know, the. For example, it came back. One of its feedback was like, you have five reps that haven't closed a deal. Now, of course, like, for me, I'm like, whoa, five people that have not closed a single deal. Like, I'm immediately like, that. That's not acceptable. Right? And so I'm like, okay, give me the names. And so then I went and looked and checked all five names. Turns out one was on maternity leave the last three months. Okay. Like, it's freaking out, but that's. That makes sense. Of course she's not closing deals. Turns out two of the other people had joined. One had joined less than a month ago, and the other had joined less than two months ago. And so I was like, okay, like, that's tolerable. Like that. That. That sort of makes sense based on sales rep signs. And then there was two that had joined seven months ago. And so those were the two where I was like, okay, what's going on here? And so, you know, it was freaking out over five. It should have been freaking out of two. But, like, I would have. The time it would have taken me to get to that answer would have been, I don't know. Like, I don't know if I would have even gotten to it in. In this. I went back and forth with it for, like, 15 minutes and immediately had, like, you know, not just one example like, that. I probably had, like, three or four, like, very critical things sitting on my desk where I was like, okay, I need to go figure out how to solve these problems next. And that's the kind of stuff that you can do with these tools.
- [28:44]
A
I see. And so if I'm thinking about even your assistant Michal, she'd be able to use this to analyze a spreadsheet or to analyze something that was sent over to her.
- [28:53]
B
Yeah, you could just, like, you can kind of like. You don't like. The thing I'm. I'm finding is you still need to have some level of like. Like, if you've never used a spreadsheet before, if you have no, like, data fluency at all, you're probably gonna make mistakes with these tools. But, like, if you're like, just, okay. And I consider myself like, an amateur, like, you know, data analyst. I don't spend all day, every day inside of spreadsheets. But, like, I kind of, like, sniff out BS when I see it. I find that now with these tools, I'm. It's like putting, like a rocket booster on my back where I'm like, oh, my gosh, I can work so much more effectively with this stuff because it does all the things that I would want to do but just can't because I don't spend all my day doing this stuff. And so I'm just slow and, you know, not as. Like, my intuition isn't as strong.
- [29:46]
A
All right, I'm going to ask you for software that you're excited about recently, and then I'm going to close it out with a quick personal question. But I'll tell you one of mine. I just tried something called Wide Frame. I got early access to it. It's a Wide Combinator company that does vibe video editing. I essentially throw a bunch of video at it. And then in the chat box, I say, I want you to do this. It analyzes the video. It says, okay, I see he's got this. I see he's got that. I'm going to put it in this order. I think the hook should be that. And I didn't even tell it. It's going to be a social post. It just found what the opening was. It was fantastic. It's 50% there. Little quirks have to be worked out. But, boy, it's so beautiful. And largely, I don't want it for work. I want it for all the family videos that I have. Like, here's family vacation, 30 hours. Go do something. Anything that you're especially excited about.
- [30:31]
B
I mean, I am. Like, it's. I don't know that I have anything beyond just, like, I am using cursor and the models and all these MCP servers to do just, like, more and more stuff. And so I find that, like, these CLI tools, these MCP servers are where I am getting more and more valuable, which is. Which is odd for me as a non developer to say, like, those are the tools that I'm finding really, really great.
- [30:56]
A
I do, too. All right, the final personal question is, why do you have a hat behind you that says no?
- [31:02]
B
So that was a gift from, uh, Brian Halligan. So Brian Halligan is the founder and former CEO of HubSpot. And one of the things he was coaching me on is he said, you know, HubSpot, we would go through these periods where we do all our planning, we come out with our priorities, and, you know, the. The new year would hit, and immediately, you know, we would have new ideas, and we'd start to get distracted with all sorts of other stuff. And so he said, I started wearing a no hat just as a way to remind people, like, we know what we got to go do. Stay focused, like, go execute on the stuff that we said was important. And so he gave me a no hat because I have that exact same problem. I just get too excited about the new thing, and I need to remember to be like, stop. Like, that's a cool idea, but we have cool ideas. Let's go execute on those.
- [31:56]
A
It does fit really well in the frame here in the video. All right, Wade. Hell, yeah. Thanks for doing this, and I'm going to hit you up for that skill.
- [32:03]
B
All right, I love it, Andrew.
- [32:04]
A
Bye, everyone.
- [32:05]
B
Bye.