How to Ask for and Actually Get Top-Quality Referrals

Summary

Stay Paid Podcast Episode Summary: "How to Ask for and Actually Get Top-Quality Referrals"

Release Date: November 25, 2024
Hosts: Luke Acree and Joshua Steich
Guests: Dan Allison, Cody Smith, and Stephen Akery from Acre Brothers Realty

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Introduction

In this enlightening episode of the Stay Paid Podcast, hosts Luke Acree and Joshua Steich delve into the intricate world of referral marketing with renowned referral expert, Dan Allison. Joined by Cody Smith and Stephen Akery from the Acre Brothers Realty team, the discussion centers on actionable strategies to effectively ask for and secure high-quality referrals. The conversation is rich with insights drawn from Dan's extensive experience across various industries, emphasizing the psychology behind referrals and the importance of strategic execution.

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The Current Landscape of Referral Marketing

Luke Acree opens the discussion by questioning the evolving perception of the term "referral," noting that some consider it a "dirty word" in sales contexts. He asks Dan Allison to shed light on the current state of referral marketing.

Dan Allison counters this notion, asserting, “If you're confident at the end of the day and the value that you provide to people and you truly believe that you're helpful to people, why would it ever feel uncomfortable to talk about providing that help to other people?” (02:07)

He emphasizes that referrals are a natural behavior rooted in trust and value, rather than a manipulative sales tactic. According to Dan, the reluctance often stems from internal mental barriers rather than external client resistance.

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Challenges in Asking for Referrals

The hosts bring up a statistic attributed to Dale Carnegie, suggesting that “90% of your customers, when asked, say they will refer,” yet only about 11% of salespeople actually make the ask. Luke inquires if Dan's research aligns with this and seeks his guidance on improving referral rates.

Dan Allison responds by highlighting his extensive research involving 50,000 participants globally, which revealed that 94% value their experience enough to refer, and 51% have referred someone in the past year. However, 81% of these referrals are passive, merely sharing contact information without facilitating a direct introduction (03:32).

He critiques common referral scripts that place the emphasis on the salesperson, such as “I get paid in two ways,” arguing that these approaches focus too much on the "me" rather than the "you," which diminishes the effectiveness of the referral process.

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Dan Allison's Referral System

Dan introduces his comprehensive referral system, designed to transform passive referrals into active, meaningful connections. He outlines three touchpoints that are pivotal in his strategy:

1. Reactive Approach:

   • When a client mentions they have referred someone, Dan advises responding with appreciation and immediately discussing how to effectively facilitate that referral. For instance, he says, “Can we talk about that for a minute? … Let’s strategize the best way to do that” (06:13).
   • This proactive handling increases the likelihood that the referral will lead to a successful connection, as opposed to simply handing out contact information.

2. Proactive Approach:

   • At the start of a client relationship, acknowledge the value of the client's experience and gently introduce the topic of referrals. Dan suggests, “How comfortable are you with the idea of talking about referrals if you identify people who need help?” (10:05).
   • By addressing potential discomfort upfront, clients feel more at ease and are more likely to engage in meaningful referrals.

3. Post-Service Feedback:

   • After delivering value, such as closing a real estate deal, Dan conducts a debrief with clients to gather honest feedback. He asks questions like, “How could we have been more effective or efficient in our communication?” (13:19).
   • This feedback not only refines his service but also reinforces the client’s perception of value, making them more inclined to refer.

Dan shares a compelling anecdote where a prepared response to a referral led to a significant business opportunity in Asia, illustrating the profound impact of strategic referral management (06:13).

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Practical Steps for Agents and Professionals

Cody Smith adds to the conversation by referencing the book Mindset of a Sales Warrior, emphasizing the importance of a value-based mindset. He contrasts the traditional sales approach of cold calling with a mindset focused on adding value, stating, “Instead of calling about someone selling a house, [agents should think] I know that I can help you find the house that you're looking for” (25:10).

Dan Allison reinforces this by highlighting that business growth is inherently tied to the value provided to clients. He states, “Instead of using I want to grow my business, all you want to do is be helpful to more people” (25:57).

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Mindset and Behavioral Insights

The conversation delves into the psychological aspects of referrals. Dan explains that understanding and influencing behavior is crucial for effective referral marketing. He draws parallels to psychological principles like Pavlov's conditioning, illustrating how positive reinforcement can encourage clients to refer more frequently and confidently (13:19).

He further elaborates that successful businesses treat every action as strategic, ensuring that each interaction with clients is an opportunity to foster trust and encourage referrals.

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Launch of The Exchange

Transitioning to future initiatives, Dan Allison discusses the launch of The Exchange, a platform designed to democratize access to high-quality coaching and business development resources. Partnering with David Desell from Model FA, Dan describes The Exchange as a "Netflix model" for business education, offering a variety of courses and virtual events for a monthly fee of $99 (27:10).

He shares the platform's rapid growth, noting that it surpassed 600 members across six continents within just 45 days of launch, underscoring the global demand for accessible business development tools (30:43).

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Final Thoughts and Action Items

As the podcast concludes, Luke Acree and Joshua Steich summarize Dan’s key strategies:

• Engage Clients Proactively: Initiate conversations about referrals early in the client relationship to set clear expectations.

• Facilitate Introductions: Encourage clients to make direct introductions rather than merely sharing contact information.

• Gather Feedback: Continuously seek and act upon client feedback to enhance service quality and reinforce referral potential.

Luke emphasizes that top producers excel by taking decisive action, urging listeners to implement the discussed strategies immediately: “Pick 10 of your clients this week. Call them up … ask them about their experience” (34:05).

Dan Allison wraps up by promoting The Exchange, inviting listeners to join and benefit from the collective wisdom of seasoned professionals.

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Notable Quotes

• Dan Allison (02:07):
  “If you're confident at the end of the day and the value that you provide to people and you truly believe that you're helpful to people, why would it ever feel uncomfortable to talk about providing that help to other people?”

• Dan Allison (03:33):
  “What are they saying about your brand, your value proposition? Because Dan said it best. That is truly your value prop. That's truly your brand. It's what they're telling the marketplace, not what you think you're telling the marketplace.”

• Cody Smith (25:10):
  “Instead of calling about someone selling a house, [agents should think] I know that I can help you find the house that you're looking for.”

• Dan Allison (25:57):
  “Instead of using I want to grow my business, all you want to do is be helpful to more people.”

• Luke Acree (34:05):
  “Pick 10 of your clients this week. Call them up … ask them about their experience.”

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Conclusion

This episode provides a comprehensive guide to mastering referral marketing through strategic, behavior-driven approaches. Dan Allison's methodologies empower agents and entrepreneurs to transform their referral practices by fostering genuine client relationships, emphasizing value, and implementing structured processes. By internalizing these insights, listeners are equipped to enhance their referral rates, thereby driving sustained business growth and creating a life of freedom.

For those looking to delve deeper, joining The Exchange offers access to a wealth of resources and a supportive community, further amplifying the strategies discussed in this episode.

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Connect with Dan Allison and The Exchange:

• Website: school.exchange
• Instagram: @danallison (for personal updates and insights)

Stay Paid Podcast:

• Email: [e-mail]
• Phone: [phone]
• Website: staypaidpodcast.com

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Transcript

[Luke Acre]

Welcome to the Stay Paid podcast where we help agents and entrepreneurs master the latest business trends to unlock growth and create a life of freedom. Brought to you by Reminder Media.

[Joshua Steich]

Welcome to Stay Paid. My name is Joshua Steich.

[Luke Acre]

And I'm Luke Acre.

[Joshua Steich]

And we have an amazing episode today. Joining us again, as always, Cody Smith and Stephen Akery from the Acre Brothers Realty team, the number one team in Lindsburg, Virginia. I like how you guys have your name. It always makes me say Cody first. That's very clever.

[Dan Allison]

Yeah.

[Cody Smith]

Every time, baby.

[Luke Acre]

Way to go, Cody.

[Joshua Steich]

And joining us us again, return guest Dan Allison. Dan is the founder of the Advisory Development community and the Exchange and is a genius on referrals, having interviewed thousands of clients to better understand the behavior of why clients refer, why they don't refer, and the mistakes made when trying to refer people. He's used this information to develop a system that is followed by financial professionals and real estate agents around the world, leading to a consistent flow of referrals for those implementing his concepts. He's been a featured keynote speaker at hundreds of conferences on six of the seven continents, which we learned Antarctica is still on the list for him to get to and in 49 of the 50 states. Dan, welcome back to Stay Paid.

[Dan Allison]

It is awesome to see you guys. Good. Thanks for having me on, Dan, man.

[Luke Acre]

It'S awesome to have you back. We have referenced your thought leadership so many times because you really are a referral expert.

[Joshua Steich]

Top five. Top five, for sure.

[Luke Acre]

Easy. Top five. Reference guests. Because, like, obviously we're in the referral space. Everybody who listens to the show knows we help agents keep in touch with their database through different marketing mediums like our magazine and stuff to help them generate referrals. So referencing you like this is our space is what we. And we reference you as one of the thought leaders on referrals. I'm curious right out of the gate to get your take on the landscape of referral marketing today. Last time you were on the show was, you know, four or five years ago, I guess four years ago now. And, you know, there's a lot of people who say referrals is now considered a sales word. It's more of a dirty word in the sense of don't use it, use connection. I'm just curious, where do you see the referral landscape? And then we can talk about your system that you're teaching advisors and stuff.

[Dan Allison]

Yeah. I can tell you the people who think the word referral is a dirty word, I think they're overthinking it. It's a word people understand. You can come up with fancier words like introduction and stuff. And I think a lot of times we try to change words so much that people don't even know what we're asking. So to me, I think if you're confident at the end of the day and the value that you provide to people and you truly believe that you're helpful to people, why would it ever feel uncomfortable to talk about providing that help to other people? To me, you mentioned we've interviewed thousands of people. My background is clinical psychology, so I study referring as a behavior. It's something we want clients to do on their own. We don't want to push them. But when we interview people, they are very comfortable with the idea of referring if they receive value and they have trust that the people will deliver. I don't think we have to shy away from it. I think the biggest challenge with getting more referrals is in our head. It's a mental thing. We have too much sales training, honestly.

[Luke Acre]

Exactly. It's too much manipulation. I tend to agree. I think it's all in the confidence of delivery. There's a famous stat out there. I hope I don't get it wrong. It's DALE Carnegie says 90% of your customers, when asked, say they will refer. But 11% of salespeople ask, is that true? Have you seen that in your research? Is the problem that people aren't asking? What are you teaching agents and advisors to do to set up the referral?

[Joshua Steich]

Here.

[Dan Allison]

Here's what I'll tell you about that. Carnegie's right. Surprise. We participate and author questions for one of the biggest research studies every year on this topic. So we've got about 50,000 people globally. Take time to complete the survey and it's not like, click, click, you're done. It's pretty extensive. And we actually find that 94% of people report that they value the experience at the financial professional. That could be real estate, that could be advisory. They value the experience enough that they would confidently refer. What is way more interesting to me is 51% report that they have referred somebody in just the past year. But as we dig deeper, what we find is 81% of those people, their method of referring is passively giving out contact information versus making the connection. And Luke, one of the things I'll tell all you guys, a lot of the sales training on referrals, if you look at like the financial advice space, some of the more common scripts are, hey, I get paid in two ways. And one of Those ways is I expect referrals or the greatest compliment you could give me is a referral or don't keep me a secret. All these things that have in common me. But when I interview actual clients about the behavior of referring and the motivation behind doing it, when I say, have you ever referred? And when they tell me yes, I'll ask them, talk to me about the last time you did it. And then I'll ask them, why did you do it? Because it's risky. If something went badly that could reflect negatively on you, why did you take the risk? I've never heard in 21 years of interviewing thousands of clients around the world, I've never had somebody look at me and say, well, my advisor gets paid in two ways and they expect it. Or I wanted to, I wanted to compliment my realtor. Their motivation for referring is to simply be helpful to people they care about. So if we could change this mental paradigm of referrals or uncomfortable to talk about to the right people, they're not uncomfortable at all. In fact, people are trying to refer. Most of the time they're just doing the wrong things. Giving our name out doesn't normally lead to that prospect reaching out to us, whereby if they make a connection, an introduction, the likelihood that we're able to help those people skyrockets. So most of the time it's not an issue of are they willing. Carnegie was right, they are. It's are they capable of executing a referral when they attempt to do it? And that's easy to fix.

[Joshua Steich]

What does that execution look like in terms of how can an agent, financial professional get that information to their client of, hey, here's the best way to do that referral.

[Dan Allison]

Yeah. So great question. To me, there's a proactive and a reactive way to handle it. I've owned a mental health company. When I was in my 20s, I started that. I had about 600 employees within five years. We sold that, I bought a real estate and mortgage banking company, had that for about five years, had an exit, and now I have a consulting and coaching firm in the financial advice space. And I have deployed the exact same strategy in every single industry. And that is, number one, when somebody says, I gave your name to somebody the other day, right? Everybody who's in sales has heard somebody, hey, by the way, I gave your name to someone. The majority of people respond to that by saying, hey, thanks a lot, I appreciate that. But they know I'm pretty unlikely to hear from that person. And so there's a reactive way when somebody Tells you, I gave your name out. And I say the same thing every time. What I say is, I appreciate that. Can we talk about that for a minute? And they always say, sure. I say, I'm assuming that you did that because you thought that person might benefit from some help or some guidance. Is that accurate? I always ask, is that correct? Is that accurate? Which they always affirm. And then I say, the problem with that is because they don't know and trust us in the way that you do, they rarely reach out unless there's real urgency with what's going on with them. And as a result, they rarely get the help and the guidance that you intended to provide to them, which is bad. So now that we've talked about that, is there a comfortable way to at least tee up an introduction? It could be as simple as an email, depending on your relationship. But let's increase the likelihood that they actually get the help that they need if they need it. I have found the majority of times if you simply say that, it will turn into a conversation and a brainstorming session about an actionable introduction instead of, I gave your name out. And by the way, when somebody says that, I will promise you they have given your name out several times that you didn't even know about. They didn't bump into you and tell you. So if we could correct that one behavior, I think everything would take care of itself for business development so reactively. In fact, Luke, you had mentioned speaking around the world 13 years ago. I was referred to a global company, and the CEO of the company that referred me, he said, hey, I love your stuff. I'm close friends with the leadership of this global firm. I'm going to send him your information and tell them to reach out to you, right? So I knew he was about to give my name out. I use the exact language. And this guy had just sat through four hours of training with me, and I kept waiting for the moment that he'd be like, ah, I see. Never even happened, man. It blew right by him. He called the CEO on his cell phone. Ten minutes, I captured his attention. Thirteen years later, I'll bet I've done at least 500 events around the world in Europe and Asia, Australia, New Zealand from that one moment. And I always think about, like, what if I would have said, hey, thanks, I appreciate that. Like, I just got back from Europe or Australia, New Zealand and Singapore with that company. That would never have happened if I was not prepared for that moment.

[Luke Acre]

That is crazy.

[Joshua Steich]

What about the group that, Sorry, but what about the group that isn't telling you. What about those people that aren't saying, oh, by the way, I referred you.

[Dan Allison]

Good question. So I proactively, so reactively, I've got to be prepared. But proactively, if you're working with a client, a matter of fact, I bought a house two weeks ago. So my realtor represented me in the negotiation of that. The lake house I'm in right now, she's going to prep for sale. You know, I had a great experience. We negotiate a great deal on a property. When the client experiences some form of value, like, man, that was super helpful. All you have to do is say, hey, I appreciate. I'm glad you experienced that. We love to help people in the way that we helped you. Now, there might be a time in the future that somebody you care about needs some kind of help or guidance, like what we just provided to you. And I want to talk about if that happens, what do we do? Because what happens is a lot of times our clients are trying to be helpful, so they give out our contact information. But because those people don't know or trust us, they rarely reach out. So what I'm doing is proactively conditioning that client to not exhibit the behavior that 81% of people do, which is give the contact. Because what will happen now is that client's going to call me and say, hey, I've got somebody I need to introduce you to. We can strategize the best way to do that. And now I've got a real effective referral. Instead of a bunch of people throwing my name out there.

[Luke Acre]

It is truly the. What you're doing is bringing to awareness, like the pain point and the need. And that is what I think people underestimate so much. We try to teach our clients that with the magazine that they're sending. The key to the magazine is, yes, it makes you look great. Yes, it brings you top of mind. But the key is it gives you a reason to call and then have that type of conversation with your database. And what I try to tell people is you might have the conversation where you're sharing with people, hey, referrals, and that you love referrals, you want to help more people, all that good stuff. And they might not refer you at all, but what you did is you brought it to their awareness. You planted the seed. Now, every touch point that you send from this point forward waters that seed. What people tend to do when they market, and they do it poorly is they just market, but the context for the consumer, they have no context of your marketing. And so the key is when you're doing referral based marketing is to set the context for Dan the client and going, hey Dan, this is, I'm here to help you in buying, selling, investing, whatever. What can I do to help you? Give, give, give. But then now, every touch point I sent to you, you now know what Luke Acre needs and what he's looking for. And it is so powerful. I've seen it time and time again over the last decade. If you plant the seed with the client of how they can give you a referral and how it should work, you'll get way more referrals than the people who do not plant those seeds. And there's a huge lie out there that you don't have to ask for referrals, that you don't have to plant those seeds, that you can just do great service and people refer you. And I don't know if you run into this Dan, or not. Is like people think that they don't or shouldn't ask, they should just do great service and create an environment. And I tell people great service is a bare minimum. You can't get referrals without great service. But there is no separator there. What are your thoughts on that?

[Dan Allison]

I tell you what, the difference to me between the people who make a decent living and the people who are rock stars and build enterprise is they understand that everything that they do is strategic and there's a process behind it. You don't. I think the people that say I don't want to ask for referrals, what they're really saying is I don't like the feeling of being rejected and I don't want this client to feel uncomfortable. And there are ways where you can intentionally and strategically do the right things. So you may not have to ask for referrals, they're just going to happen. But if you're uncomfortable having the conversation, it's because you have a fear of the unknown. You don't know how this client's gonna respond. So I wanna give your listeners a strategy that I have used. And again, I have had companies in multiple industries. So think about this. I built a mental health company and had an eight figure exit from then, from there. And I did not have a license in psychology, I did not get my doctorate. I bought a real estate mortgage banking firm, had an exit, did not have a real estate license. And then I bought an insurance firm, sold it three, three years later for a multiple of 10 of what I bought it for, did not have and still don't have a life insurance license. So what. What did I do to do that? I followed the exact same process. And there. There are three touch points that I focus on. Number one, when I am referred to a prospect, when I'm meeting with that prospect, we all know whether or not the meeting's going well. Kind of that initial meeting. At the end of that, what I'll do is say, can I ask, was this a good use of your time? Are you glad that you spent this time here today? And when they say, yeah, this was super helpful, we appreciate it, all I do is say, you know, Luke, who referred you, he took a big risk when he did that. You're important to him. And if this was a complete waste of your time, that could reflect badly on him, would you mind reaching out to him and just let him know it was worth your time? Now, why am I doing that? If anybody remembers psychology 101, Pavlov's dog, positive reinforcement versus negative reinforcement. What I've done is now the prospect, who that referral source really cares about is the one calling the referral source, saying, hey, I met your guy, Dan. Thanks so much. What they just learned is that risky behavior of referring is actually not only not risky, I get positive reinforcement. When I do it, I look good. The likelihood of a future referral from that person will skyrocket. So Realtors, if it's a mortgage banking firm, a title company, do not miss the opportunity. When a circle of influence takes that risk, ensure that that person goes back and provides that positive reinforcement. So that's touch point number one. Touch point number two. Now, they actually are a client of mine, right? And what I do at the beginning of that relationship is I tell them I have a couple of goals for the people that I help. My first goal is I want your experience to be so good with us that you would never consider using somebody else for what we do. Now, the problem with that is everybody defines a valuable experience differently. So one of the things I do for everybody I help is I block a little bit of time to get honest feedback from you. I'm going to ask you the things that you valued, the things that I did well, the things I could have improved on. Because I want to make sure, on a scale of 1 to 10, if you're at a 7, we have to have the kind of relationship where you tell me what 8, 9, and 10 are so I can improve. Are you comfortable with that? Of course, they all say yes, but I tell them my second goal. I want the experience to be so good that not only do you not want to use other people, you want people you care about to get our help. And I know talking about referrals can be uncomfortable for people, and I respect that. On one hand, I could pound you over the head about referrals every time I see you, which I don't do. But on the other hand, if I don't talk to my own clients about it, you may know somebody who needs help, and your perception might be that I'm too busy, I'm at capacity, I don't have time. Would I even help somebody like that? That's bad, because then people who need help don't get it. I simply ask, how comfortable are you with the idea of talking about referrals if you identify people who need help? So what I'm doing is I'm identifying that there might be an elephant in the room, and I want to either confirm that it's here or I want to remove it. And when you hear your own client say, now talk to me about it. Like, what kind of people are you trying to help? Now that fear of asking is gone. The problem, I think, with the one size fits all approach to referrals, say this one script to everybody. There's risk, and that's why people aren't doing it. Let your people tell you, I'm behaviorally the kind of person who likes to be helpful to other people, and you can talk to me about that fear is gone. Or let them say, you know, this part of my life's kind of private, or I'm not the kind of person who really gets involved in other people's business. Perfectly fine. That's why I asked the question. I don't want to be talking about something that's important or uncomfortable for you, so I'll stay focused on giving you such a great experience, you don't want to use somebody else in the future. So that's touch point number two, new client. A lot of people think you have to deliver all this value before you can earn a referral. And it couldn't be further from the truth. The time that people are most likely to refer is at the initiation of the relationship. The example I give for any of you out there who are married, when was your spouse most likely to tell her girlfriends what an amazing guy you are right at the beginning, right. 20 years in, they're not sitting there bragging. I could go from oh, my God, he's a speaker and he speaks all over the world, to I can't believe People pay you to talk like you know what I'm saying? So. So don't miss that chance when they're a new client. And then finally, the third touch point is after I've delivered on my value. And I'll tell you, real estate agents, I rarely meet a real estate agent who has any kind of process that is meaningful. After the house is sold, the deal is closed. I represented the buyer, the seller, doesn't matter where. I ask for a half an hour of time or an hour of time, and I learn from them about the journey I took them on. I want to learn from you. How'd you feel about this? How could we have been more effective or efficient in our communication? What did you value the most about what we did for you? When you learn that stuff, you're learning your real value proposition. Not what you think it is. It's what your clients say to the, to the marketplace about you. And in that process, when somebody's raving to you about that experience, why on earth would it be awkward to say I want to do that for more people? It's not so. Those three touch points I have followed in every single company I've ever owned. And it works. I took a 45 year old company that was stagnant and grew it 400% and sold it for 10x my investment by executing that. That's all I did. We didn't increase marketing spend. I took the people who already liked us and executed on that process and had a great sale.

[Luke Acre]

That is ridiculous. That has been the piece of advice that you gave years ago that has stuck with me the most.

[Joshua Steich]

Interview your clients.

[Luke Acre]

Yeah, that most people will hire consultants and pay them tens of thousands of dollars. And your best consultant is your current client and you're not even asking them what they think about you. And it's like, I'm like, oh, that is stuck with me.

[Dan Allison]

I got to tell you a funny story real quick, Luke. So my son is 21 years old and he goes to college in Arizona. And he was home over the summer. And like any kid, he has no interest in what his dad does for a living. He just knows I fly all over the world and talk and stuff like that. But this summer he said, hey, me and my buddies, the other night we were at home and we watched you on a podcast. And I said, oh, you did what? What podcast? He said, I don't remember the name of it, but on YouTube it was like 60,000 or 70,000 views. It was a stay paid podcast that we did. So he, he had watched my pod. And then I took him to Boston this summer to. To see me speak for the first time at a convention. And afterwards, we were sitting down having dinner and he said. I said, what'd you think? And he said, well, he said it was good. It was great how you knew how to make people laugh. Like that many people at one time. Like, it was good. But he said, the thing I don't understand is it felt like all you did is tell them if you want to know how to be valuable to people, like, ask them how and they'll tell you and then just do that. And I was like, yeah, that's how dad makes a living, pretty much. Yeah. But it's true. Everybody complicates.

[Luke Acre]

Yeah, everybody complicates success. Everybody makes it harder than it needs to be. And it's not until you get somebody that is outside your industry, not affected by, doesn't need the commissions, not trying to close the deal, whatever it is, that can just look at it practically and go, wait. It just seems like you're just asking people tell me what you want and then you deliver what they want.

[Dan Allison]

It's. It's all psychology, man. It's all behavior. And if you want to manipulate and change behavior, you have to understand why does it happen the way it happens today, or you're not able to effectively motivate or curtail any kind of behavior. So you're really.

[Luke Acre]

I mean, go ahead, Cody. But you're really a business expert is what you are. I mean, you weren't a licensed psychologist, you weren't a licensed real estate agent or mortgage person. You weren't a license. You're really a business expert. You could almost classify you as private equity man. Like, you just come in business better and flip it.

[Dan Allison]

Well, what I look for is relationship driven businesses. I'm not interested in product and inventory and stuff like that. But when you have a relationship driven business, I think there's a terrible lack of training on psychology of behavior. I really do. And it's like, I can't tell you how many firms hire me to come in and coach them. And they'll be like, if it's a real estate company, well, we want to get more referrals from our COIs, the mortgage lender, or if it's a financial advisor, it's, hey, we want lawyers and CPAs to refer us to more people. And I always ask, can you look me in the eyes and tell me that you have actually maximized your clients and getting referrals from them? And every Time they're like, well, probably not. It's like, then why are we worried about anybody else right now? Those people said yes to you. They gave you money. That is the. If you're delivering a good experience for those people, COIs are just ancillary additional business. But why would you not have a strategy and intentionality around your existing client base? It's a big problem. So what I, like a lot of people will buy a company and add products or services to increase revenues. I find that if you buy the right company, all the revenue you're ever going to need is already inside of it. If they're good at what they do and it's putting systems and processes around, how do we engage our existing advocates in a way that is more effective as they try to get our help to people they care about? That's all you got to do.

[Luke Acre]

I love it.

[Cody Smith]

Value based. So I don't know if you guys read the book Mindset of a sales Warrior and they go through like an example of just having the right mindset. So when you think about a salesperson, often people have this negative emotion of cold calling and asking for. But if you're going through the mindset of adding value, which is what you've been talking about, it's a completely different feeling for the call. So instead of calling about someone selling a house, but actually, hey, I know that I can help you find the house that you're looking for is much different than me just trying to sell and get a commission check. So that whole mindset changes the whole conversation and wanting to ask for the referral. Why do you want to ask for a referral? Because I can impact your friend's life just like I did yours. It's like a completely different feel and why you would do it.

[Dan Allison]

Yeah, everybody talks about growing our business, growing our revenue, and what I have to remind them is that doesn't happen until you have helped somebody. So instead of using I want to grow my business, all you want to do is be helpful to more people. And who on earth could fault you for that if you're in a service industry? The greatest thing I had in the mental health industry and all the families that I helped, you know, these families had kids with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder. It was a tough, tough situation. But the greatest asset I had was a lack of sales training. It never occurred to me I was a sales guy. I never got trained to say, hey, I printed out your LinkedIn profile. Any of these people have a mental health issue? Like, we just, we wanted to help as many families as we could help. That's why we were in the business. And I think the more you can internalize, am I valuable? Am I helpful to people? If you believe that everything else is easy because the motivation for a referral is they want to be helpful to people. And that's what you're supposed to do for a living. So why would it be awkward to.

[Luke Acre]

Talk about what's next for you? Can you talk a little bit about the school community you just launched with the Exchange, I think you're calling it?

[Dan Allison]

Yeah, yeah, we're really pumped up about that, man. So, you know, last 21 years, I've had my consulting firm, so I do, you know, a lot of keynote speaking at conventions, and then I do private workshops for firms that can afford to bring me in to spend the day with them and put them through the process. But it always bothered me if I'm on stage in front of a thousand people that, you know, 960 of them can't afford to do that. But I'm not a technology guy. That's never been my skill set. I'm more just relationship. And I always wanted to build a platform that was affordable for people to get the intellectual capital that I've been able to build over the time that I've been in the industries that I've been in. So what I did, I partnered with another firm called the Model fa. David Desell. You actually know Love David. He introduced us. Referral. That's why I'm on the pod right now.

[Luke Acre]

And I. David, thank you for the referral. I like Dan better than you. No, I'm just kidding.

[Dan Allison]

Everybody does. It's okay. He knows that.

[Luke Acre]

Exactly.

[Joshua Steich]

Yeah.

[Dan Allison]

He's better looking and more manicured than I am. But I got him the likability factor. He's from Boston. He's your Boston dude. No. So what we did is we decided to partner on a platform called the Exchange. The Exchange. My dream was what if we were able to pull high quality coaches together that don't coach in the same area, but complement each other philosophically, how they engage, they have quality courses and content. And we could create almost a Netflix model where people come in for 99 bucks a month, cancel anytime that you want to cancel. They get access to all the different courses which cover everything from cold prospecting all the way through to referrals, video marketing, social media use, efficiency, technology. And they could do that. And then monthly, we're able to do virtual events just for our members. And then the community aspect, which is incredible. It allows them to support each other because you guys know if you're part of a company, you're not always vulnerable with all your colleagues talking about your challenges and your struggles. We wanted to create a community where a kid in North Dakota who's a year into the finance industry could get advice from a 25 year veteran who's the CEO of a multibillion dollar company in Hong Kong. True story. Just happened a couple of days ago because successful people love to give back, guys. That's why we're doing this podcast. It's cool that we get a lot of views and we're able to build our business, but there's other ways to do that. You like to give value to people. So we launched that platform 45 days ago. Yesterday we crossed our 600th member six continents. So we're globally connecting people who are talking all things business development, efficiency, prospecting for 99 bucks a month. And so I feel like for me, it allows my speaking engagements to be more meaningful. It's gotten me off any of the social media stuff because now my life, I'm inside that community giving advice to all the people in there. We couldn't be more pumped about it.

[Luke Acre]

Yeah. And I mean, you told us you already have, like, you just launched. You already have like 600 plus members. It's amazing.

[Dan Allison]

Yeah, I can't believe that. Yeah, well, God, I tell you what, man. You know what? It's like, I've seen some videos of you at big conferences for 20 years. I've had people saying after they hired me to speak, like, hey, do you want the list of all the attendees and their emails and all that? I'm like, no. I mean, why? What am I gonna do with that? Dude, I've spoken in front of 15,000 people. It's like, why would I want 15,000 emails? I wish I could have that back.

[Luke Acre]

I was gonna say, what the heck, Dan? You needed me in your life at that time.

[Dan Allison]

Oh, my God, tell me. I'm so jealous of the way you utilize social media. But to me, it was hypocritical because if I'm up there talking about being a referral expert and then I'm hitting you up with this marketing, that's kind of contradictory. But what I've learned is the marketing now is to be able to get the knowledge and the implementation skills at scale. And when I had that kind of aha moment, I was like, if I'm on stage and there's a bunch of people in the audience wanting to implement what I'M talking about, I'm doing a disservice by not having a platform that's affordable for them to be able to execute on that. So we launched it. It's only been a soft launch so far, so we haven't really put it out there. We were hoping to get 50 to 100 members and we crossed 500 in the first 10 days and we were like, holy crap, we're onto something here.

[Luke Acre]

That is just ridiculous, man.

[Joshua Steich]

How do people sign up or learn more?

[Dan Allison]

Yeah, yeah. If they wanna check it out, they can go just to school, which is s k o l.com exchange and I'll tell you, Luke, we do this. I know David loves you and he had said that if I wanted to throw it out there, anybody that checks it out, number one, you get a seven day free trial. So you're not even charged for a week. So if you don't like it, you click a button and you're out. We won't bug you about that. But if you get in there, if you become a member and you DM me inside of there and just put stay paid in there, what we'll do is we'll get you a link to add another member at no cost. So you can. I know a lot of people have support staff or maybe they have a business partner. So just put that keyword. So we know that you came from here for that and we'll get people in there.

[Luke Acre]

That's awesome, man.

[Joshua Steich]

Dan, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast, sharing your knowledge and all of your wisdom. Before we close out though, how can people connect with you other than maybe school's play?

[Dan Allison]

This is, this is where people are. People like Luke are going to get disgusted by me. Go to school. I live inside of there. It's like having a digital retainer with all the coaches that are inside there. But if you go to my Instagram, if you're curious, like what kind of meals I had in New Zealand, you can go to my Instagram. I promise you at some point I need to hire a firm to create a good social media presence for me. That's, that's kind of my next phase of this.

[Joshua Steich]

Love it. Thank you. Dan, Cody, Stephen, thank you for joining us. How can people connect with you?

[Luke Acre]

Absolutely. Yeah. So you can email [e-mail] I get a lot of people call me from the podcast actually, so feel free to reach out via phone. Call 434-216-5306.

[Joshua Steich]

That's awesome.

[Luke Acre]

Awesome.

[Joshua Steich]

Thanks. Guys and thank you all so much for listening. You can get the show notes as well as all of those links and contact information that we mentioned over @stay paid podcast.com if you like this episode, head on over to Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Drop us a five star review along with a comment. We'll make sure to read it here on the show. And the best way to support the show is to share this episode with someone that you know. If you want to get a hold of me or Luke, you can email us at podcast reminder media.com and of course you can follow us on social media as well. We are at Stay Paid Podcast for this episode of Stay Paid. I'm Joshua Psych.

[Luke Acre]

I'm Luke Acre. Dan, thank you so much man. You never disappoint. You truly are one of the best thought leaders when it comes to referrals. So everybody go check them out. Go look what he ate for breakfast or lunch in New Zealand. Follow him on Instagram. Your action item from this though, so valuable. Pick 10 of your clients this week. Call them up and especially your your ones you just worked with. Ask them about their experience. Where do they see their experience with you? What are they saying about your brand, your value proposition? Because Dan said it best. That is truly your value prop. That's truly your brand. It's what they're telling the marketplace, not what you think you're telling the marketplace. It's what your clients and advocates are telling the marketplace. Do the work. Call them up, get that consulting done where they can share with you what they love about you. And then maybe they'll even share with you the things you can improve, which are the really golden nuggets. Remember, the difference between top producers and mediocre producers in every business is top producers take action. Take action on that today.