📞 LIVE CALL-INS: Is Print Dead? The Marketing Truth Nobody Talks About

Summary

Stay Paid Podcast — LIVE CALL-INS: Is Print Dead? The Marketing Truth Nobody Talks About

Hosts: Josh Stike, Luke Acree, Stephen Acree, Cody Smith
Date: April 6, 2026
Format: Live listener call-ins focusing on marketing trends, real estate, business-building, and actionable strategies for agents and entrepreneurs.

---

Episode Overview

This special call-in episode centers on a hotly debated question: Is Print Dead? With the rise of digital and AI-driven marketing, the team explores the effectiveness of print media, particularly for small businesses, real estate, and insurance professionals. Live callers Dave (business consultant), Denise (insurance and financial services), and Laura (insurance agent) share their experiences and challenges, receiving practical advice on recruitment, retention, brand building, and measuring marketing ROI.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is Print Marketing Still Effective?

Caller: Dave from Ohio — Business Consultant
[01:00–10:35]

• Dave’s Background: Long history in print, transitioned from traditional to commercial and promotional printing. Observed the shift to digital.

• Question: Will print’s resurgence last, or is it just a contrarian blip?

  Luke’s Insights:

  • Print’s Perceived Death: “People have been telling me print’s dead since, you know, 2016.” [02:04]
  • Evidence From Real Estate: The Acre Brothers Realty team proved print’s ROI—35 deals in year 1 to 320 by year 5.
  • Action Over Inaction: “Whenever you have doubt in your life and you’re paralyzed, the key to that is not inaction...the key to that is action.” [03:13]
  • Standing Out in a Digital World: Despite thousands of daily digital ads, physical mail gets near-100% open rates.
  • What’s Actually Dead: “Junk is dead. Lack of value is dead. But if you can have quality in the content and the physical good that you send, then you will not lose.” [04:15]
  • USPS & Temple University Study: Print outperformed digital in both emotional connection and ad recall.
  • Targeted Approach: Quality content to “A-list” contacts and targeted mailings are key for effectiveness.

  Memorable Moment:

  • Dave: “My daughter likes the smell of the ink and the paper.”
    Luke: “That’s a little strange, Dave.” [09:52–09:57]

---

2. Recruiting & Retaining Insurance/Finance Teams

Caller: Denise from Maryland — Building Her Own Brokerage
[11:03–24:52]

• Denise’s Challenge: Wants to build her team from 13 to 50 agents, struggling with both recruitment and retention.

• Background: 20 years in insurance and financial services; previously had 30 team members but slipped due to transitions and insufficient recruiting.

  Advice from Hosts:

  • Identifying Personal Obstacles: Denise acknowledges being more of a “creator” than a “processor.” Needs systems/processes for onboarding and ongoing support.
  • Industry Norms: “20% are going to actually produce, 80% won’t.” [16:03]
  • Building a Recruitment Pipeline:
    • Tap into personal sphere and referrals.
    • Target professionals in related sales industries (real estate agents, lenders, car sales, door-to-door sales).
    • Use LinkedIn to build targeted lists.
    • Message: Emphasize income potential, freedom, and career growth.
  • Consistency & Volume: “People severely underestimate how much activity they have to do to land a recruit, to land a sale.” [23:56]
  • Best Mediums: Seminars, masterminds, and targeted social media outreach foster connections and add value.

  Notable Quote:

  • Luke: “If you want to get rich, you can do it with direct response. If you want to get wealthy, you must build a brand.” [41:14]

---

3. Measuring Marketing ROI & Building Brand in a New Market

Caller: Laura from Tennessee — Insurance Agent
[25:15–45:57]

• Laura’s Challenge: Moved from California to a small Tennessee town, struggling to duplicate networking success and measure the success of her print/digital marketing.

• Barriers: Small, insular local population; difficulty penetrating established circles; self-admitted resistance to certain activities (cold calling).

  Hosts’ Guidance:

  • Consistency in Relationship-Building: Laura had success in CA via partnerships/friend networks—needs time and repeated efforts to do the same locally.
  • Measure What Matters:
    • Distinguish between direct response (tangible leads) and brand-building (organic lead flow, repeat/referral business).
    • Track metrics: open rates (13–14% now, aim for 30–40% with warm list), cost per lead, cost per acquisition, and LTV (lifetime value) of clients.
    • “Start getting a number benchmark of how many organic leads do you get...that will give you a benchmark that you’re looking for.” [40:24, 41:56]
    • Use engagement signals (e.g., email opens) to prioritize follow-up.
  • Mindset Matters: Hosts challenge Laura’s “downer” self-talk and encourage her to focus on what she can control: “What you focus on expands.” [30:04]
  • Brand & Hustle: Direct response might make you rich, but only consistent brand-building leads to real wealth.

  Key Quote:

  • Luke: “There’s no way around it. You have to do it…You know what you need to do, you just don’t really want to have to do it.” [45:35]

---

4. General Takeaways & Closing Remarks

[46:07–47:35]

• Print is Not Dead: It’s about quality, targeting, and integration with your playbook.
• Recruitment & Retention: Focus both on messaging and identifying likely candidates; leverage value-add events and consistent outreach.
• ROI Measurement: Use business benchmarks, cost per acquisition, and client value—not just industry “averages”—to guide strategy.
• Brand & Direct Response: Commit to both “the hustle” and brand-building for long-term growth.
• Mindset: Top producers take action and stay consistent, even when motivation wanes.

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Luke on Doubt & Action:
  “Whenever you have doubt in your life and you’re paralyzed, the key to that is not inaction...the key to that is action.” [03:13]

• On Quality Print:
  “Junk is dead. Lack of value is dead. But if you can have quality in the content and the physical good that you send, then you will not lose.” [04:15]

• Laura on Mindset:
  “Consistency is the name of the game, especially in this little town.” [31:00]

• Cody on Reach-Out Prioritization:
  “Use that [email engagement] as an indicator on who to reach out to…Those are the ones that are really interested and really great clients.” [39:54]

• Luke’s Challenge:
  “There’s no way around it. You have to do it…You know what you need to do, you just don’t really want to have to do it.” [45:35]

• Host Closing Advice:
  “The difference between top producers and mediocre producers is top producers take action. Take action on something you heard today.” [47:35]

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Print vs. Digital & Why Print Isn’t Dead: [01:00–05:45]
• Targeting & Playbook for Print Success: [05:45–08:37]
• Recruitment Strategies for Insurance/Finance: [11:03–24:52]
• Local Networking & Mindset in a New Town: [25:15–30:39]
• Marketing Measurement & KPIs: [33:02–42:42]
• Brand Building vs. Direct Response: [41:14–44:01]
• Motivational Wrap-Up: [45:35–47:35]

---

Summary: Key Takeaways for Listeners

• Print Marketing Is Alive When It’s Done Right: Personalization, high-value content, and targeted lists are essential. “Junk” is dead, but quality print builds emotional connection and ad recall.
• Recruitment & Retention Require Systems and Volume: Leverage your network, target the right industries, host value-driven events, and remember—consistent activity wins in the long run.
• Measure For Your Business: Don’t just rely on industry benchmarks. Know your own numbers: open rates, cost per acquisition, client value, and focus on brand as well as short-term leads.
• Mindset & Consistency: Embrace the grind, track your progress, and acknowledge that building (or rebuilding) real relationships takes time, even if you “know what to do” already.
• Action Is the Differentiator: If you want different results, implement something from today’s episode.

---

For full episode notes and resources: staypaidpodcast.com
To participate in future call-ins: remindermedia.com/ask
Follow on Instagram: @staypaidpodcast

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Today, we are answering your burning questions in real estate, business marketing and more. On these episodes, we take live calls from listeners of Stay Paid. If you want to have your question answered live on the show, make sure to follow us on Instagram @staypay podcast. Send us a message saying you'd like to come on the show, or you can visit remindermedia.com ask and submit your questions there. My name is Josh Dyke, chief marketing officer at Reminder Media, joined as always by Luke Acrey, president of Reminder Media, and from the Acre Brothers Realty team founder and team lead, Stephen Acrey and director of sales, Cody Smith.

[C]

We switched it up, guys. We're on Zoom now.

[B]

Yeah, we're on Zoom.

[C]

Yeah. We got tired of Riverside, although Josh and I forgot today and we were sitting on Riverside for 10 minutes making our our guests. Hey, man, you got to be transparent. You got to let the world know when you mess up just so they can, you know, judge you, too.

[B]

Absolutely. And our most patient caller of the day calling from Ohio, Dave, business consultant in Ohio. Welcome to Stay Paid. How can we help you?

[D]

Hey, just I wanted to touch base on a couple things. I was in the printing business long probably before you guys were even born. That's how old I am. 1984. And I started traditional printing. Envelopes, business cards, letterhead, that kind of stuff. Eventually got into promotional marketing and commercial printing, direct marketing. Back then, we didn't have the Internet, we didn't have email, we didn't have the kinds of social media that we have today. And it was important to get your messaging out through print media. It was essential. And today we've kind of gone the opposite direction, but you're contrarian. So you've taken it to the next level. And I'm wondering if that's a switch that's going to stay. And, you know, people like to have things in their hand.

[C]

I sure hope so. Otherwise I'm going to be working for somebody else soon. So.

[E]

Yeah, you're like, well, they start making on that, you know.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. Well, Prince, you know, people have been telling me, prince dead since, you know, 2016. Actually, funny. Not. Not funny story, but good story is, you know, back in 2016 timeframe, I had a ton of doubt in my mind because people were telling me, prince dead. We at Reminder Media, for those who don't know, our main business is custom magazines, and we do some postcards and stuff like that. And, you know, we had thousands of clients and tons of testimonials, but I was having a lot of doubt and I always share with people doubts. Kind of like that nick in your windshield where if you don't take care of it right away, you're going down the road, you hit the potholes, and it starts to spread, and before you know it, that crack is going across your windshield. You got to get rid of it, right? And you got to replace it all. And so that's kind of where I was mentally. And Steven was working at, you know, financial aid office in Liberty, and he was miserable too. And misery loves company. And so we were talking and Steven said, you know what? I think I'm going to get into real estate. And I was like, oh, ding, ding, ding. That's amazing. Let's, you know, let's do that, get into real estate. Let's actually prove out what we do. And now, you know, long story short, they're the number one midsize team in Virginia. I think your first year, you did 35 deals. By your fifth year did 320. And that removed my doubt because, you know, we don't have a magic solution by any means. It's not a magic formula. You and I always teach people. There's a principle in there that you should realize, that everybody should realize. Whenever you have doubt in your life and you're paralyzed, the key to that is not inaction. The key to that is not just overthinking. The key to that is action. Because in action you get momentum, and in momentum you get learning. And in learning you can iterate right, and get better and better and better and better. And so that's essentially what we found. And so on the real estate side, man, I have so much confidence that print is not dead. And we work in over a hundred different industries at reminder media. And what I found, and you already hit the key point, Dave, is that, you know, in this world of digital and AI and content, it is just so hard to stand out. I mean, what's the average Josh person get a day in ads like they

[B]

see consumer wise or 4,000 ads a day?

[C]

4,000. So, you know, thousands of advertisements that the consumer is seeing. And you go, well, how do you cut through? And where can you get open rates? Where can you get seen? And my opinion is the mailbox still has maybe not 100% open rate, but very close, very close to 100% open rate, because people are going to their mail still to check the mail. And if you do, what I think is dead is what dies in every medium. Junk, junk is dead. Lack of value is dead. But if you can have quality in the content and the physical good that you send, then you will not lose. There was this interesting study done by the US Postal Service and Temple University, and they were trying to judge the effectiveness of digital advertising versus print. And, you know, they're very similar in terms of what they can produce. But where they found that print one was an emotional connection, because you think about it psychologically, it makes sense. It touches more of your senses than just, you know, digital, because you actually get touch and you can actually feel it. But print also won in ad recall. So ad recall is you see an ad and a couple days later, how much of the ad can you remember? And print one, where they showed people a bunch of print ads, they showed them a bunch of digital ads. They had them come back like 48 hours later and they asked them, what do you remember about the ads? And print one every time on ad recall. So I always tell people, if you're thinking print's dead, you're just doing the wrong type of print to the wrong type of audience. And that's what we want to help people with at Reminder Media. So I hope that helps in answering the question. Like, that's a long winded answer because I'm a long winded person, but that's.

[D]

No, it's absolutely correct. Have you found age or demographics matter to the open rate to the effectiveness of the, the media? Because I'm a, I'm a new customer in the third issue of Business in Action, and I'm curious as to whether or not me as an older person still likes to have that thing in hand, you know, but, but that there's

[C]

no doubt that older people appreciate it more. There's definitely no doub.

[B]

Um, there's that stuff that millennials actually resonate more with print than older generations because it's different. Like those numbers, the cuts do the noise and because it cuts to the noise and because it, like, digital is great for awareness, digital is great for attraction, but it doesn't build trust.

[F]

Like, and they say too, it kind of goes back to, you know, they say the best CRM is the CRM that you use. Like, I think a lot of it has to do with your playbook behind what you send. And so, like, the magazine is fantastic because it's quality and gets in front of them. We send out postcards as well through reminder media. And Cody and I were just talking the other day how, you know, we hadn't been getting a bunch of traction on postcards, but we sent out a postcard to someone and then our isa Went through that neighborhood, called them, they remembered the postcard and so we get an appointment. Well then we find out someone on the team actually knows this person. So we have him call that person. Cause he actually knows them. And we get the appointment and we get a listing signed out of it. So it goes back to what's the playbook behind what you're sending to your consumer base?

[C]

That's such a good point. I always tell people the one thing I have found Dave, that whether you're sending our magazine or something else from a print standpoint is who you send to matters tremendously. So for the magazine, we tell people your key relationships like the, the people who like maybe you consider your a list, your sphere, your key contacts that you want to get in front of. We have found that to be the best for the magazine on like a postcard side. Your targeted mailing list matters. Right. So you know, for a real estate agent to carry on Steven's example, you know, you want to target people in the home price that you're interested in selling. You want to target people who have lived there for the average amount of time that people tend to live before they sell or they upgrade. And then you can get even deeper. It's like target absentee owners, target people who recently divorced people. Like they enter in a debt to loan stamp like equity standpoint that it's like, oh, this makes sense for this person to actually sell. So getting more targeted in your list always helps your marketing. So sometimes it's not the marketing piece that's the problem, it's the list that you're sending to is the problem is what I have found.

[D]

Yeah, absolutely. The feedback I've gotten is that the top of mind awareness of the magazine, the quality of the editorial writing, the, the fact that it's personalized for my business. As a small business owner, if you're a big company, you know, and you've got lots of marketing dollars behind you, that's one thing. But a small business that has something like this creatively available to them, it's phenomenal. And, and the centers of influence, whether it's sit, businesses lobby, sitting out, you know, with the other magazines that, that are there, it's unique, it stands out and that's the feedback that I've received. And, and as an author, I'm a recent recently published author and, and people are still picking up books. They're not just going to the audiobook or they're going to the digital media on, on the platform, but they like to have that thing in their hand while they're on the train or on the cruise ship or wherever they're commuting to. They still like to have that printed word. And.

[C]

And so I've incorporated emotionally, it connects you more to the person. It just, I mean, that stats show that and it's because it's the physical.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

My daughter likes the smell of the ink and the, you know, in the, in the paper and.

[C]

Okay, that's a little strange, Dave. That's. What?

[B]

No.

[D]

Well, maybe she got it for me because back in the day, you know, when you went to a printing house, I mean, it's smell. It still does, obviously.

[C]

Yeah, it does. Yeah. No, 100%. No. I mean, I'm with your daughter.

[B]

I love this, man.

[C]

I love it, man. It's the sound of money. Click, click, click, click. The printers clicking. You're like, keep them going, keep them going. Dave, man, so appreciative you coming on. Sorry about the little bit of delays there with Josh and I, but really appreciate you one, appreciate you being a client. Let's connect more. I know we're connected on LinkedIn too, but really appreciate your question and looking forward to helping you grow your business. So appreciate you coming on the show.

[B]

Thanks, Dave.

[D]

Thanks for the support.

[C]

Thanks. All right.

[B]

All right, there you go. You can get your questions answered here on Stay Paid Live if you go to remindermedia.com ask, we'll make sure to reach out to you and get you scheduled here on the show. Next up, we have calling from Maryland, Denise. Denise in insurance and finance. Denise, welcome to Stay Paid. Thanks for being here.

[G]

Good morning.

[C]

Good morning.

[B]

How can we help you?

[G]

Well, I had no idea I was going to be on a call like this, but this I think I sent a request and basically about steps that I could take to actually build my team. So I'm in the process of building a team right now.

[C]

Okay. Can you give us a little background on your business? Like, how long have you been in the insurance industry and financial industry and what does your team look like, like today in even like the size of your business, how much revenue or clients you work with?

[G]

Okay, so I've actually been in this business now 20 years. Quite a while.

[C]

Congrats.

[E]

So.

[G]

Well, thank you. It's definitely nowhere near where I want it to be right now. I am in the financial business, not just insurance. Okay. So I do the insurance investments, debt elimination, budgeting, all of those things.

[C]

Are you a financial advisor, like under a broker, dealer?

[G]

I am.

[C]

Okay, awesome.

[G]

Yes, I am. But I actually am building my own Brokerage.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[G]

Right now.

[C]

So you're building an ria Basically, yes.

[G]

That's why I'm looking for teammates.

[B]

Awesome.

[G]

Actually, I've had up to 30 teammates licensed today, though I only have 13.

[C]

Okay.

[G]

So I'm looking to build more and to actually maintain them.

[C]

Okay.

[G]

To retain them. To retain them. To keep them around.

[C]

Yeah. What. What happened to take you from 30 to 13? What happened there?

[G]

What I want to think. I want to just say transition, so people go into other things. People quit. And then, of course, I basically was not recruiting as much as I should, so.

[C]

Okay.

[G]

That's a lot.

[F]

Those people, those 30 that you had, were they producers?

[G]

You know, 20% of them were 20%. So they were licensed. So all were licensed.

[C]

Okay. Licensed insurance agents are licensed. Both financial, like security, just insurance.

[G]

The investment agents are still around.

[C]

Okay, so what is your goal? Like, what are you trying to get to and why?

[G]

Well, my goal is to actually build a team of. Oh, sorry, you're good. Of. Probably what I'm looking at is to build a team of 50.

[C]

Okay.

[G]

Maybe more, but definitely 50 is my goal that I'm working with. Why? Because I built 30, so I know that I can build it to 50. I just. I guess I need a little more direction.

[C]

Yep. Well, what's the. Why is it the income like, that 50 will bring? Have you done the math out?

[G]

Yeah. So that 50, if I had a team of 50, I'd probably be making about. If a team of 50 productive workers. Sure. Put it that way. That were doing some things, and then all of them really wouldn't even have to. You know, the 2080 rule still exists. And you know what? What it did. So if I had 50, that 2080 rule, my income would be around 200,000.

[C]

Oh, wow. Nice. Awesome. Okay, so we need to break down. So you want to recruit. So thank you for the background because it gives us a picture of where you're at. So we need to find the blocker with inside your business right now that's keeping you from getting to the 50s. So can you walk us through why you, like, are not able to get there today? Like, how many recruits do you have in your pipeline? How are you recruiting? What is the struggle for you, for you today to get to the 50?

[G]

I think my struggle is me, first off, and I think that is because I believe totally in what I do. I know that everybody needs these services, and so I believe totally in it. But I'm also a. I'm an entrepreneur, so I'm not a what I want to say I am a creator.

[F]

You're not organizing.

[G]

I have to create the business. I'm not a processor.

[C]

Yeah.

[G]

So I think that in my own mind, finding people that want to be creators and not going to get a job, that's a blockage for me because I don't think that people actually want to do it. I don't think that because I've been in the business so long that I've actually had that rejection. I've overcome it. But it also has come to a point where people do quit. So I think that sort of put a blockage on me as far as talking to people like I really should.

[C]

Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so what I'm hearing, well, good for you for identifying first that it's like, hey, my skill set is not in processes and operations. And so I know, I believe in what I'm doing. I can train people to do it, but. But you haven't processed out how to actually get somebody up and get somebody doing it. So in essence, you're recruiting. They're not having success because they can't replicate what you're doing. And so they quit. And you're in that kind of vicious cycle. Now, insurance, full transparency, for the thousands of insurance agents we've worked with, that's kind of the game, because, you know, it's the 80, 20 rule. 20% are going to actually produce, 80% won't. And for all the IMOs and FMOs and the thousands of insurance clients that we have, that is what we seen. That doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to do better than that, but just gives you a kind of where the industry's at. I would like for you to focus so you have what you want. You have the messaging of what you want to deliver because you believe in what you're doing. So now you got to take that messaging and get it out to the right audience. So the two questions we've got to answer is, where are the recruits that you believe should join your team? Where are they? Where do they hang out? How do you find them? How do you build a list so you can reach out to them? And then two, what is the messaging that you're putting in front of them? And once we defined where they are, the messaging, then we go the distribution. So the distribution is social media, YouTube, email, phone calls, events. Right. So first we've got to start with, where are the recruits, Denise? So where have you recruited the 30 in the past from? Where have you gotten them from?

[G]

Okay, so in the past and even still now they come from people that I prospect that I've reached out to. So that could be people that I actually meet cold on the street. If I'm out and about and I talk to somebody, it could be referrals from people that I know and it can even be referrals from current teammates.

[C]

That's awesome.

[G]

Assisting them to build their team.

[C]

Okay, all right. So then, then the step there is number one would be your database of recruits. So we need to start building that. So you need to start building your database of recruits to get that up. And first place I would go is same as you. I would go to my sphere and I would ask my sphere, are you guys interested in making X amount of income or whatever your pitch is? Right. Because we're going to figure out the messaging and you start now reaching out to your sphere, your referrals from your current clients or current current agents. I should say that you have right, that's part of your sphere. So your agents are in your sphere. And then last but not least then you would go to. Okay, well who else potentially might want to sell insurance that is in sales and there are probably a lot of real estate agents out there, local service based businesses that ancillary they might want to also sell insurance. So like lenders, real estate agents, maybe title companies. I'm just thinking out loud here but I go these people are already in sales already servicing small, you know, our community based clients fits right in naturally. Maybe they would also want to do this. A really popular one for us that might work for you is car sales and door to door sales. So like power home remodeling, Anderson windows, these people have to go out in the cold and in the hot and they have to go knock on doors and they don't want to do that anymore. And but they're used to rejection, they're used to the sales process. So it's like the car salesmen, they make a lot of money, 100k, 200k but they have to scrape the snow off the car. They have to get in the hot car during the summer and get their legs burnt by the leather seats. Like you are able to offer them a better. So like how do you go to LinkedIn and find me all the car salesmen in on LinkedIn that are local to me.

[G]

Right.

[C]

How do I go find all the power home remodeling Anderson window salespeople? And your goal is what to build a list. Right. And your, your whole ultimate goal in every business is to build your ideal target audience and then what you do is you figure out what's my message to them. So your message for these people is obviously the potential of income, the potential of freedom and the potential of like career. Yeah, exactly. And so then you go to distribution. And distribution is like marketing in essence. And I always tell. Go ahead.

[F]

Yeah, yeah. Can I ask a clarifying question too? Because I think I heard you right earlier, Denise, when you said the 13 that stayed, they're also in financial services as well as insurance. They're both in. And the ones that you lost mainly were just. And insurance. Is that right?

[G]

Yes. And all of them that stayed is. Doesn't have both licenses, but some of them are new too.

[F]

Got was just a curiosity question more because if that is A. If 13 stayed because they're in both fields.

[C]

Right.

[F]

So there's. There's an opportunity for them to get more income. And that's where your retention line. I mean that's a huge value proposition from your point. And then it goes back to Luke, what you said is going to these other industries. I mean you can go to the financial service industry and find plenty of people that aren't doing insurance and go, hey, I have a better opportunity for you to do both. And that's a great.

[C]

Best recruiting thing I've seen from a medium standpoint is seminars like masterminds seminars. Come learn how you can make extra income. I don't know if you have an office space that you could host a seminar in. And that's what you invite. That's what you invite the car salesman to the power home remodeling salesman to the real estate agent to. You might have to attract them there with other topics like marketing is a great topic that they all need. Come learn how to use social media. And then you also are there too. So it's like you lead with value and then you're there to share with them also a career opportunity for them. So that's a medium for you. Obviously, like this is more intense than just one combo. But for you, what I would idea and you, Denise, is that you're just not doing enough activity because you don't know where to put the activity. And so you need to step back and go basically, hey, don't get paralysis by analysis. This is pretty simple. I want to reach people who do. I want to reach who's most likely to be able to sell my product. Boom, we've id'd that. What do I offer to them? Freedom, quality of life, income. Perfect. That's my message. Go to AI ChatGPT Gemini, put those things in there of what you offer and have it create messaging for you. And then third would be your outreach. So you could offer a mastermind to invite them to so they come so you can meet them, you can reach out to them on LinkedIn. You could post content on your social. You could send them, try to get their email addresses, send them an email. Of course, you could try to call them. You could send them direct mail. I think for you, I would focus on connecting on LinkedIn and social, inviting them to a mastermind where you're providing value in that invite, you're getting their email address that then drips them on a monthly or weekly email newsletter. And that cycle now you just go one to, let's say, 5% convert. So you got to get 100 people to try to get five. Right. So you can see the scale that you need and volume of people. And that's kind of your action item. If you do that, Denise, I think you will crush it. Just remember, people severely underestimate how much activity they have to do to land a recruit, to land a sale. You've been in this business a long time, so you understand the rejection. Just apply that to recruiting. It's like, hey, you're going to have to do a ton of activity to get 30 recruits. But the best people who have thousands of agents now, that's what they did. They didn't. It was no magic sauce. That's what they did.

[E]

And I would add to the end of that too, is that it won't come overnight.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

Like you're gonna have to do that same activity, the. The abundance activity for at least six months to have any results.

[C]

Yeah, great.

[E]

So it doesn't mean you're doing something wrong when you're doing it in two months and you're like, I still don't have any recruits. This isn't working. It just means you haven't done it long enough because it. We know it works and you seem very talented, so it doesn't seem like it's a skill set. Doesn't seem like a knowledge base or offering. So then it's more of like just time. Time on task.

[C]

Yep. That's great, Denise. Appreciate you. Thank you for coming on the show. Let's connect on social, but really, really appreciate you. Go get them.

[B]

Thanks.

[G]

Thank you.

[B]

Take care.

[C]

Bye.

[G]

All right. Bye. Bye.

[B]

All right, there you go. Make sure to get your questions answered live here on Stay paid. Go to remindermedia.com ask and we will get you scheduled here on the show next up we have Laura. Laura calling from Tennessee, also in the insurance industry. Laura, welcome to Stay paid.

[A]

Hey, how are you guys? Good to see you.

[C]

Yeah, it's good to see you too, Laura. How are you?

[A]

Well, the word of the day is allergies, but other than that, the sun is shining here where I'm at in Tennessee. So I'm, I'm grateful.

[C]

How is business for you?

[A]

Business is good. It is. It's good. I, I, Most of my business actually comes out of California, and it's picking up, believe it or not.

[C]

So great to hear. So what, what's your big pain point right now? Like, what's the struggle that you're facing that we can help you with?

[A]

You know, my biggest struggle is actually being out here in Tennessee and getting to the areas that basically are target markets. And, you know, I live out here in East Tennessee. I'm way out here, and it's an hour drive to Knoxville. So your typical financial insurance person's idea of places to go an hour in California is like nothing. Freeways are flat. You know, you get there. Well, you supposedly get there, but, you know, we all know where there's traffic. But here you're dealing with weather, you know, geographics and that kind of stuff. So getting an impact is, you know, getting known.

[C]

I mean, I don't know, East Tennessee, is there just, like, no population there? You can't sell enough, right, in your local area?

[A]

No, and I don't want to say anything negative, but it is. It's been a little difficult getting to be known. Okay, now what's the population?

[C]

Give me an idea of the population.

[A]

So I live in a little town called Lafollette, and during the winter, there's 5,000 people.

[C]

Yeah, it's pretty small.

[A]

And we're right there next to Lake Norris. And so it grows to about 12 or 14,000 during the summer. And they're all coming from Ohio and other places, let's put it that way.

[C]

Travel tourists, kind of destination, pretty small.

[E]

Quick question. How do you. So you moved from California, is that correct?

[G]

To Tennessee. All right.

[E]

How'd you build your business in California?

[A]

So before I left California, I had a fantastic network of professionals that I worked with. We're all great friends. We all stay in touch with each other. And it is literally a handoff, a phone call, introduction type thing. And I, you know, I spent years working on that, because the cold calling and that, it's just not my, that's not my thing.

[G]

Sure.

[C]

Have you tried?

[A]

I don't. What's that?

[C]

You tried to replicate the connecting to partnerships.

[A]

Yeah, a little bit. Although the avenues here are. It's just different. I mean, I don't. Yeah, I. It would take an hour to go through all the different things that are so different between one state and the other.

[C]

Well, what's the. So how many have you tried to connect with? How many partners?

[A]

How many partners?

[C]

Yeah, how many. How many local businesses relationships have you tried to connect with?

[A]

Well, okay, so I have walked and knocked on doors in the little town of LaFollette. Now there's a couple of towns, Clinton, and I've hit all the libraries and there's a couple of chambers of commerce. And. And you know, a lot of these people. I have neighbors that have never left the town. They never gone any more than Knoxville. So. And like I said not to throw. There's no disparage on anybody here, but they know what they know and they know. And so breaking into that has been a little different. So I've. Like I said, the chambers of commerce are always there. There's a couple of. There's a coffee shop that I really enjoy. There's a little shop that is.

[C]

All of them have told you no? All of them have told you no when you've asked.

[A]

It's not that they've told me no, it's just. It's a matter of. Of. It's a matter of math. How many times do you go in there? When do you make the connection? How do you work that connection? Do they. Are they receptive to the idea of creating a friendship? Of.

[C]

Yeah, because you're. You're spot on there. It seems like you have a good train of thought there of, like, how activity and stuff. But what can we help you with then? Because what I'm hearing from you, and this is just obviously to build you up, like coach you up, not coach you down, is. I'm hearing a lot of negative thought processes of no population. It's just different here. I have to. So when you focus, what you focus on expands. Right. So if you. And you know this as well as I do, so what I want to try to do is break for you and just. I'm just a sounding board, right? It's just. I want a break for you and go, hey, Laura, what I'm hearing from you is you had a successful business in California, came from relationships, you know, it took years. You've moved to East Tennessee, which was your choice. You have started to build it, and you're saying, well, it's going to take time. It's the number of touches.

[A]

Like.

[C]

Yeah, that exactly. It took you.

[A]

It is in California.

[C]

But your, your language is more of a downer type language than an upper language. So I would point that out and then number two would be, okay, so where you're at today, what do you need to do? Right? So you have. Because you're saying all the right things. What you're. So you know exactly what to do. So what's keeping you? Are you trying to decide, should I go to another zone? Did I move to the wrong place? Like, what are. What are you trying to decide?

[A]

No, I am not. I don't want to leave at all. In fact, the consist. Consistency is the name of the game, especially in this little town. There's no doubt about it. I've watched that with other professionals, the ones that are here, that were already here, that lived here. It's consistency. So that's the answer for me.

[C]

So how do you then grow the business today? Because that's going to take time, which you're committed to, which I love. What's the other avenues? You're thinking to grow the business today and maybe we can help you there.

[A]

So the other avenues is. Well, I am taking a new fascination with not just the magazine that I do, I do use, and that goes to the people that I've created those relationships with. And I've literally called them and said, okay, I'm giving you this magazine because one, I know you're gonna like it, you're gonna love it. But two, when you're done with it, move it on.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

You know, and those postcards. Oh, those are gonna be so much fun, those postcards. The, the recipes. I'm actually, I'm gonna start going on camera with those recipes and do them.

[C]

That's great.

[A]

Yeah, I haven't done it yet. And you can ask me, well, what's stopping you in the back? Well, I can give you a thousand. My weight. There's a whole bunch of things. But I really want to do that because I do like to cook in my.

[C]

Or. You just called into the show to get abused. You just wanted us to tell you

[A]

so. Yeah, no, I totally, I totally want to do that. It's a fascination. But the one that I know that I'm going to act on right now is the email, though. The, the email magazine.

[C]

Yeah, email. So sending your digital version of your

[A]

magazine out that digital version. So here's, here's the question that I have for you on that is when I look at the digital version that's being Opened up by my clients that I already have on the drip. I see, you know, highly, highly engaged, somewhat engaged, you know, not engaged at all or whatever. You know, that's mostly highly engaged. It's all positive. But so the question I have is what am I measuring that engagement to? What is, what is that goal post that I'm looking for? Different industries are different and you know, we all know it's a numbers game. So let's do.

[C]

What is your open rate? Do you know your open rate offhand?

[A]

Last time I looked it was like at 13, 14%.

[C]

Okay, so not bad.

[A]

Yeah. And I mean I've had open rates as high as, you know, in the 30s with current clients. People who know me.

[C]

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Usually your sphere or your people who know you, you're going to be upwards to 30, 40%. But if it's kind of a spread out list, 13 to 14, anywhere between really, you know, 10 and 20 is where people tend to land in these industries, is where they tend to.

[A]

I guess the question that I have, and I don't know if this really puts it into an area where you can't answer right now, this minute, but where do those numbers come from? How do I know those numbers pertain to what I do? And then when do I make that decision? Hey, this is good, but it needs to be better. And when do I determine to make those changes or to stop? And the question stems from last year. I took your program actually, and I only did a hundred, but I really honed in on who it was that I was sending the postcards to. Now at the end of a full year, I wasn't completely satisfied. And I know that 100 is a very, very small number. So I understand that I probably should have kept going, but I just chose not to because I didn't have anything to measure against.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Are up to. And that's the question I have. But let's pretend, let's put it to that digital magazine. If I have 15,000 nurses in California that I can send this to. Yes, I have the list that I can send this to. How long until I know you know what this isn't working? Or how or what do I measure?

[C]

You're trying to measure like so you're talking almost. There's two different veins here within marketing that you always got to think in. One is there's a direct response type marketing, which is a, you know, you're looking at the number of leads you got or the number of responses and then there's brand building marketing, and the goal is to do both simultaneously. Because brand building marketing is like, why does the McDonald's run the TV commercial on the TV? They do it not because they expect immediately hamburger sales, like you saw the commercial and you bought a hamburger. They do it because they know they're implanting their brand into your brain. And so your digital magazine, your print magazine, that is your billboard, that you are delivering an item of value to the person that's building the brand. And then what you do is you step back at your whole business and you look at what's called organic lead flow. So how many people are coming to us? How often do I have referrals? How often do people find my website and come to me and am I seeing a growth in my organic lead flow? And if I am, then I know my marketing is working. If I'm not, then I know, okay, my marketing is not driving people organically to what I do. And that's kind of your. Your measurement. So you need your benchmark of like, well, how many organic leads do I get every year from referrals from repeat business and from just calls, website visits, where I haven't sent out a direct response piece and gotten a direct response back. And then you have your campaign, direct response driven marketing, where it's like, we'll run a Facebook ad, for instance, for Acre Brothers, and we have an ad running and we can see, well, how many people click the ad, filled out the form, and that's more direct response. And that you can tell instantaneously, usually over a couple weeks, whether or not the, the ad is working or not. But this, like, we'll run an ad for direct response and we'll run an ad for branding. The branding one is just showing us views and impressions. That one's so much harder to judge. So what you need to look at is your open rate. You have a decent open rate could be better, but you have a decent open rate there with the 13% or what, you know, what you mentioned. And then you just gotta go, well, how many organic leads do you generate a year? Referrals, repeat business, and then website visits, stuff like that. And that will tell you if you're doing enough to your list. I'm not sure if you would know off the top of your head how many organic leads you get a year, but I would start tracking that. Okay, if I'm you, that's what we do at Reminder Media, like Reminder Media, we do this podcast. I don't know if this podcast is generating direct Leads, Right? I mean, we spend an hour to two hours every week, and that's not including editing and all that stuff. That's just our time putting out content to the ecosystem that we send to people. And we post on blogs. We write a blog. We don't get a ton of leads from our blog. I mean, we get some, but not a ton.

[B]

Nothing like paid outreach, but we get, yeah, you'll get organic leads from bloggers.

[C]

But here was. My point is, like, we're not posting blogs and going, oh, that blog was a banger because it got five leads. Technically. We're consistently posting blogs. We're consistently doing the podcast. We go to these. I literally had this conversation just with my CRO. Should we go to these conferences or not? We're sitting there at the booth for a couple days. The conference cost us 20 grand a sponsor. It's like, what's the brand equity of our name being out there in the industry events? And it's like, we have to step back and go, what's our overall cost per enrollment as a company? And what's our organic lead flow? And are we seeing organic lead flow go up or are we seeing it go down? And you should start tracking your cost of enrollment. So how would you track that? Well, reminder media you're spending. Let's say, you know, I don't know your account, but let's say it's 79.99amonth that you're spending for the digital package. So over the course of a year, you're close to $1,000 you're spending. So now you go, okay, all my organic leads or clients that I gain, referrals, all that stuff, I now have to go, well, however many I got, I got to divide that by the thousand and go, that's my cost per lead, because I'm putting that in. Now you're doing more than just the email stuff, right? So you have to add that in, and you look at your cost per acquisition, and then you go, how much do I make? What's my ltv? My lifetime value of this client? And if that ratio is usually four to one, you're usually, okay. Now, the great businesses have a more or bigger than 4 to 1, but if that ratio is 4 to 1, then you keep going. If that ratio is not, then you. Then you change up.

[A]

Cool. Okay.

[E]

Yeah. One thing to add to for the emails, use it as an indicator on who to reach out to. So, like, when you're seeing who's opening those emails, like, use that as, like, all right. That's my focus point. We started doing that with our leads that came in and who actually, like, opened up an email that we sent. Those are the ones that are actually, like, really interested and really great clients. And gives you a pinpoint of, like, instead of calling the 1500 nurses, which I'm not, you know, against doing either, but that actually the open rate will tell you who's really, really interested.

[C]

Yeah, it's a great point. So if I was kind of breaking down for you, Laura, like, action items. Okay, Luke, what. What can I do from this? The first thing I would do is start getting a number benchmark of how many organic leads do you get? And that way. And then what do I spend every year on my marketing that's more branding. Like, you know, Reminder Media's digital magazine going out or whatever else you do. You know, cups of coffee with people, stuff like that. It's like, okay, what do I spend? And then that will tell you your cost of acquisition. Then you look at, well, what does a client make me when I close this referral? What do I make? Over 12 months, 24 months, however long you average keep a client. Then you look at your lifetime value and your cost of acquisition, and you really try to get to, you know, four to one is what you try to get to. I spend a dollar. I make four. So it costs me this much. I make this much. And that will give you a benchmark that you're looking for. Then you go to your mediums of like, hey, I'm sending this email. What's my open rate? It's 13%. Well, industry standard. You know, if it's a really good list, you know, you want to be closer to 30% for that really good list. So you go, okay, how do I clean this list who's not engaged? And then apply Cody's tactics, which is like, hey, let me actually reach out to these people. Let me send them a text message via their phone. Let me give them a call, see if I can get them back engaged in the loop. And now you have an activity you can do every day. And so that's really what I would do if I were you, is get those benchmarks to know if you're doing a good job by your lead flow, by tracking your lead flow is what I would do. That's what we do here at Reminder Media. In essence, it's just like we do so much marketing. Millions of dollars spent every year on marketing. And so often we're having the same question as you. Is it working? Is it not Working. And most people die because they only think in terms of direct response leads. Yeah. If you want to get rich, you can do it with direct response. If you want to get wealthy, you must build a brand. You have to build a brand. And brand building sucks because it's like, I don't know if doing this podcast for eight years every week is worth it, but you go, I think it is. I'm pretty sure I hear it enough. And it's just like, in my cost of acquisition, it's not hurting me. And that's kind of how you make the business. Okay. If that makes.

[A]

That's. That's good, because what you're. What I heard is I really am measuring against my own numbers, which is something that I can get. It's not determined on some guru somewhere out there in La La Land that usually.

[C]

That usually is not doing it. They're just talking about it. They're not doing it. They're just talking about. And no notice. Like, you're. It's judged on your own numbers, and then it's backed up by what the only thing that ultimately matters. Profit.

[A]

My own results.

[C]

Yeah, profit meaning, like, if I spend a dollar, how many dollars do I make? And that then becomes a real way to run a business. And, you know, because we've done this scenario before, and it's so funny, we'll be looking at these campaigns and like, holy cow, we're spending $700 to acquire a client there. We only make 1200 bucks off of this.

[F]

We are.

[C]

We got to stop that campaign. Because when you do it, you go, oh, I see what I need to do here. I see what I need to adjust and adapt and just know the difference between direct response and brand building. And most people don't. And you always do both. That's the key, is you're always doing the hustle and the brand. It's like that. The hustle to close deals every day. The phone calls, you know, I know you don't do as much phone calls, but for you, it'd be the partnerships going out and door knocking, getting those. Those partnerships and then build the brand.

[A]

Yeah, that's. The partnerships is my comfort zone. And the. The. The calling and stuff, it's a secondary, which, you know, like most people, whatever. Secondary is the one that you decide to go do your laundry instead of.

[B]

Well said.

[C]

No. Well said. I'll throw out one last challenge, and we'll let you go. The last challenge to you is you are starting over. And I think you are coming to terms with, oh, I'm gonna have to go build it all again. And you're not sure if you want to, meaning you do want to, and you may need to, but that's really a deeper thing that if I'm. You get around some people, that will motivate you. Get around some people, get a. Get a big why going again. Because that's what I'm reading in you is. I'm reading, I had it in California, and now I moved to East Tennessee, and I love this place, but I don't know if I want to go through this pain again.

[A]

And it's true. And being from California, you know, there's a little. I'm not saying there's an extra hurdle, but there's a little bit of a bump that you have to get over before you really start conversations with people. And. And that's just. I think that's just natural. If I had Arizona, it probably would have been the same.

[C]

Exactly. And you're just. You just know. I can read it in your eyes. You know what you need to do. You just don't really want to have to do it. And I'm telling you, you have to do it. Like, there's no. There's no way around it. There. There really is no way around it.

[A]

No, that's okay. It's all right. It's good to hear. What I know is still the right thing.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

That's what it is. Until robots replace us, Laura. Until the robots come. That's what it's going to take. Go get. Appreciate you coming on the show. Appreciate you as a client. And, hey, you got this. You know what to do, so. So go get it. Yep. Thank you.

[B]

Take care.

[A]

See you guys later. Bye.

[B]

All right, there you go. Make sure to get your questions answered live here on Stay Paid. You can go to reminder media.com.

[C]

yeah, she was great. It's just so hard when you know what to do, but you really don't want to do it. And. And you just, you know, at that point, it's like. And then you're like. It gets really hard because I'm spending money, so. Right. She's spending money. And then you go, is it really worth spending this money? It's not. If you have one foot in and one foot out, it's not worth it.

[E]

Right.

[C]

It's worth it if you go all in. And so that's what people have to understand. And it's like. But she knows what to do. She's great. I remember she came on a mastermind. That's why you recognize her. She came on a mastermind. Was it six months, eight months ago?

[B]

It's like an office hours mastermind.

[C]

Yeah. Like for us. I think you might have been on that mastermind, Stephen. We were talking about Facebook ads at the time or something like that or I can't remember exactly, but it was a mastermind with our clients. That's why we recognized her. But she's awesome. Yeah.

[B]

Thank you so much for listening. Thanks to everyone who called in to dive deeper into this episode. Get all the resources and and notes that we mentioned. You can go to staypaidpodcast.com if you enjoy this episode. I want to show your support. Go to YouTube.com remindermedia Cody, I like how your video keep like zooming in and out.

[E]

I know it goes in and out close up.

[B]

You can see that on the YouTube video. If you go to YouTube.com remindermedia make sure you subscribe to the channel. Give this episode a thumbs up. Best way to help out the show is to simply share this with somebody that you know. If you want to get hold of me or Luke, email us podcastremindermedia.com Please follow us on social media. We're at Stay Paid podcast for this episode of Stay paid. I'm Josh Dyke.

[C]

Guys, I'm Luke Acre. Hey. The difference between top producers and mediocre producers is top producers take action. Take action on something you heard today.