📞 LIVE CALL-INS: Why Waiting on the Market Is Costing Buyers & Sellers THOUSANDS

Summary

Stay Paid Podcast

LIVE CALL-INS: Why Waiting on the Market Is Costing Buyers & Sellers THOUSANDS

Released: February 16, 2026
Hosts: Luke Acree & Josh Stike (ReminderMedia)
Special Guests: Stephen Acree (Acree Brothers Realty), Cody Smith (Director of Sales), Live Callers: Sierra (Baltimore, MD), Lakela (Yorktown, VA)

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Overview

In this live-call-in episode of Stay Paid, hosts Luke and Josh are joined by Stephen Acree and Cody Smith to answer real-world questions from listeners about entrepreneurship, real estate, and business growth. This episode focuses on two main themes:

1. The nuts and bolts of building a product-based business as a new entrepreneur, featuring a luxury shoe designer's journey and challenges.
2. How real estate agents can effectively consult buyers and sellers who are hesitant to act in today’s market, showing why waiting might be a costly mistake.

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Key Discussions & Insights

1. Entrepreneur Spotlight: Taking a Luxury Shoe Brand from Idea to Sales

Guest: Sierra Garling (Baltimore, MD)
Timestamps: 01:16–18:34

Background

• Sierra is a new entrepreneur with a women’s luxury shoe and handbag line, manufactured in Italy, priced at $224–$275 per item (01:16–01:45).
• She's made ~$10,000 in sales in her first year, mainly through 20 clients (04:16–04:31).
• Her challenge: struggling to get her products into physical retail stores or to find interested buyers beyond e-commerce channels (01:45–03:46).

Business Approach Advice

• Focus on Direct-to-Consumer (D2C): Luke and the team urge Sierra not to get distracted by the allure of retail before validating demand at scale online.

  "The margin is in direct to consumer. The business model can be kind of run and developed … you run ads, you tell the story, you drive the ads to your Shopify or whatever storefront." — Luke (06:17)

• Test & Measure: Before committing to inventory-heavy retail, prove out product-market fit online and with small local boutiques (06:17–06:50).
• Content Creation: Use social media (Instagram, especially) to meet and connect with potential buyers. Document her design story and offer style advice, leveraging her passion.

  "You sharing your love for the product and each shoe and what style would fit with what outfit … more posting, more of you." — Luke (09:27)

• Alternative Selling Approaches: Consider pop-up events, private parties, or direct showcases, similar to the "Mary Kay" model (10:25–11:01).

Business Fundamentals for Growth

• Understand Margins & CAC: Know your manufacturing costs and what you can spend to acquire a customer.
  • "Do you know what your margin is? Like your gross profit margin?" — Luke (12:52)
  • Explain CAC (Cost of Acquisition) and LTV (Lifetime Value):

    "If it cost me $100 to acquire a client, but their lifetime value is $400, that’s good." — Luke (15:22)

• Build an Email List: Use email marketing for product launches, holidays, and promotions to past and potential customers (16:16).

Memorable Moments/Quotes

• Sierra’s hustle is praised:

  “Kudos all day long. You have time to do it, keep doing that." — Luke (11:06)

• "Your passion for fashion you do through your content." — Luke (16:16)

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2. Real Estate: How to Advise Clients Not to Wait on the Market

Guest: Lakela, Realtor (Yorktown, VA)
Timestamps: 19:13–35:48

Lakela’s Dilemma

• With 32 years in the business, Lakela sees buyers and sellers paralyzed by market uncertainty (high interest rates, timing fears), often waiting to act, possibly at their financial detriment (19:35–20:15).

Consulting, Not Just Selling

• Luke reframes the agent’s role as that of a true consultant: discover true motivations first, then educate on market realities (21:21).

  "You have to do sales and you have to do marketing. But you’re really consulting people based upon the needs … and their situation economically." — Luke (21:21)

• Dig deep using the “Five Whys” technique to uncover the buyer’s/seller’s emotional drivers (28:26–29:00).

The Logic & Emotion of Real Estate Decisions

• Market Education: Nobody can reliably “time” the real estate market. Long-term, real estate almost always appreciates.

  “If you hold long enough in real estate, are you going to lose money or make money?... Typically, you’re going to make money.” — Luke & Lakela (23:49–23:57)

• Balance Quality of Life vs. Money: Help clients weigh the cost of waiting versus the benefits of moving now, especially seniors.

  “Is that worth your quality of life?... That’s the real question we have to decide, and I’m here to consult you.” — Luke (26:24)

• Use logic (market stats/facts) to reassure, but focus on emotions to motivate action.

  “Remember, people are convinced on logic, but they buy on emotion.” — Luke (29:09)

The Pipeline Principle

• Keep a Full Pipeline: To stay consultative and avoid “commission breath,” always have enough prospects so you can be authentic and client-focused.

  “If you have a full pipeline, you’ll have no fear telling people the truth.” — Luke (34:12)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On D2C vs. Retail (Shoes):

  “You are confusing and conflating two different desires … Your desire to be involved with people and the fashion side … is distracting you from the business that’s in front of you.” (06:17)

• On Product Testing:

  "You’re still at the entrepreneur phase where you’re trying to prove product market fit." (11:01)

• CAC/LTV Primer:

  "The ratio you want in a healthy company is at least usually a 1 to 3 ratio of CAC to LTV." (15:22)

• Agent Consulting:

  "You are really a real estate consultant ... starts with, can you get to the true pain point and the true reason behind them wanting to move?" (21:21)

• On Buyer/Seller Hesitation:

  "What does every major investor tell you? ... You can’t really time the market. That's why the whole term 'date the rate' came." (24:25)

• On Selling With Empathy:

  "People will make decisions based upon the emotional outcome and quality of life they want, but they get so nervous that they're going to make a terrible decision financially." (25:38)

• Pipeline Mindset:

  “You need more leads so you don’t have to feel any commission breath ... just be brass, tax, authentic and truthful.” (34:12)

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Key Timestamps for Segments

• Sierra’s Call (Luxury Shoes D2C): 01:16–18:34
• Lakela’s Call (Real Estate Market Waiters): 19:13–35:48

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Actionable Takeaways

For Entrepreneurs:

• Prove demand online before chasing retail placements.
• Relentlessly document and share your story/content.
• Know your margins, CAC, and LTV for sustainable marketing.
• Build and market to your email list.

For Real Estate Agents:

• Uncover clients’ real motives with probing questions.
• Educate honestly about market realities—can’t time it!
• Tie decisions back to emotional quality of life, not just financials.
• Keep your pipeline robust to stay in the consultant mindset, not the salesperson mindset.

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This episode is rich with practical advice, real-world anecdotes, and motivational encouragement for entrepreneurs and agents alike, blending hard business truths with human-centric coaching.
Recommended for: New business owners, real estate agents, and anyone seeking to build a sustainable, people-focused business.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Today we are answering your burning questions in real estate, business marketing and more. On these episodes, we take live calls from listeners of Stay paid. And if you want to have your question answered live on the show, make sure to follow us on Instagram @staypay podcast. Shoot us a message or you can go to remindermedia.com ask and submit your questions there. My name is Josh Dyke, chief marketing officer at Reminder Media, joined by Luke Acrey, president of Reminder Media and from the Acree Brothers realty team founder and team lead Stephen Acree and director of sales, Cody Smith. We are going to bring on Sierra. Sierra calling from California. Sierra. Welcome, Sierra. Bye.

[C]

Bye.

[A]

And then she's gone.

[C]

She saw Cody.

[A]

She was like, oh God, I'm in the wrong place right now. She's out of California. It's a little early there. You know what I mean? She's back.

[B]

Here we go. Round two. Can you hear us?

[D]

Yes, I can hear you guys. Can you hear me?

[A]

We can hear. We thought you saw our faces, Sierra. And hung up.

[B]

I don't want anything to do with this.

[D]

I'm so excited. Good morning.

[A]

Hey, good morning. We are thankful to have you on the show. What can we help you with? What's your question?

[D]

Okay, so. So first off, my name is Sierra Garling. I'm from Baltimore, Maryland and I recently started a woman's luxury shoe business. Right. So I started off with currently four designs. Right. This is my latest one that I'm releasing this winter. I also have a handbag too as well.

[A]

Right. They look great too. Everybody, if you're listening to the audio of this, check out the YouTube video. She's showing these.

[D]

Listen. Right, so my issue is that I'm having is, is how do I find a placement like a home for these. Currently I am online, online based and my shoes are priced starting at maybe 224 for this one here and I go up to maybe 275 for my boot. I am currently made from Italy. That's where I'm housed at. That's where my shoes are manufactured from. They come in these beautiful boxes here. Yeah, yeah. So that's this one for my handbag and this is for the shoes. They're very amazing. However, I am trying to find a home from them. Like I want to be able to place them in a store, maybe find a buyer. I do want to run online. I enjoy running online but however, I want to have them in a store. Now being a style only been in business for a year, July the third of 2024 was my one year anniversary. So for me, I feel like I want to kind of put them in a store and I don't know how exactly to do that, where to start. I have started by. I created, I use GPT to ask them how or what particular stores are open to, you know, new, new entrepreneurs who are accepting new merchandise and things like that. So, so it gave me a list of 150 people. I emailed all of them. This was on December 27th. I emailed 150 of them. So now I want to go back and call those people to say, hey, you know, I sent you guys an email. But outside of that, no one has responded back to me with the emails I sent. I sent them on. I started on December 22. I gave myself a week to send those emails out, but I haven't even gotten one back in regards to housing them. So my question is, how do I find buyers?

[A]

I am super impressed and congrats on taking action in building the business. You said you're a year and built literally in retail. You know, shoes I'm assuming are extremely competitive. So you know, well, well done. Like taking action, getting your idea to life. It's amazing. Oh, I love you have the magazine.

[D]

Even better even than a book.

[A]

Yeah, there you go. Yeah. So you're a hustler. You're out there grinding. Tell us about your revenue. How much have you sold of the shoes in the year?

[D]

So maybe I've done maybe about 10,000 in sales, which I don't know if that's great or not. So for me, how many shoes, how.

[A]

Many, how many pairs of shoes would that be?

[D]

I've done maybe about 20.

[A]

Okay, so about 20 clients. Yeah, maybe about 200 and something. Dollar price range. Is that high end? Is that considered high end? I just don't know Shoes I figured was, yes, it's more than what I pay for shoes. But I don't know. My wife Megan, maybe she.

[D]

Yes, it's considered like a women's. A woman's luxury shoe based off of the print and materials.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Like this is like zebra hair, guys. Like this is hair here, you know.

[A]

So let me ask you this. Since here, why go to retail? Why do you want to go to retail? What's motivating that?

[D]

Well, because I want to be able to actually meet the people like online. I can't connect with the people. I can't, you know, tell them so much about the shoe. Now I do do.

[A]

Why do you want to do that? Like why do you want to meet the connected I want to meet the people.

[D]

I want to show my product. I want it to be in a storefront. I want people to be able to pick it up and pick their options. For example, like online, I have several different styles. Like let's say you're like, hey, Sierra, I'm not a heel girl, but I have these, right? So in the store you'll be able to try them on. For example, let's say you say, hey, Sierra, I like kills. I want something a little bit more comfortable. I would want you to be able to have the experience of being able to touch them, feel them and try them on vice versa. Online, you don't get the option of it and being as though it's a price point. It's like when spend your money, you want to make sure that you're spending for exactly what you want. So I felt like if I had them in a store, it will open me up to more customers, I would say, and also get people to feel it, touch it and see the product, try it on things of that nature.

[A]

Okay, so awesome, awesome question. And it's really about how do you drive, you know, engagement and how do you drive awareness and ultimately purchases? I can only answer it the way I would answer the questions here at Reminder Media. In us growing our business and the multiple businesses we've grown over the years, I think you are confusing and conflating two different desires and that's a problem and that's going to hurt you. So you have the desire of being the fashion designer and meeting the client and the love for your product and the proud. And this is amazing, right, because you are truly an innovator entrepreneur. So awesome. Kudos to you. But then you're like you're mixing that with the business and you haven't proven out yet the business side. And the easiest way to prove that out is direct to consumer through E commerce and get feedback on the product and actually get sales. I think you are going to hurt yourself going trying to go into retail one from the inventory standpoint and the money it's going to cost you to have the actual inventory in the stores. The only caveat I would make there is if you maybe find some local boutique stores that you can put it in just to test the feel because it feels like a boutique item, but the margin is in direct to consumer. The business model can be kind of run and developed in the sense of you run ads, you tell the story through ads, you drive the ads to your Shopify or whatever storefront you're using and See if you can sell them. Otherwise you're in for a really hard road of pound the pavement, get it into retail, and you're next to God knows how many other shoes. I would rather you prove the concept out B2C, make some money and then maybe go into the retail side. But I think your. Your desire to be involved with the people and the fashion side of it and the feedback from the client and the proud of the. Seeing your shoe in the store is. Is distracting you from the business that's in front of you. You need to be asking yourself the question of why are my shoes not selling online right now? Well, they're not selling online because I'm not getting in front of the right people with the right time. And so how do I reach the right people at the right time? And there's great platforms like Google and Facebook that.

[B]

Instagram.

[A]

Instagram.

[B]

You advertise on Instagram now?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. Perfect.

[A]

Are you in. Are you posting content? Cause that's how you could fulfill that side of your business. Let me look up your Instagram. What's. What's your Instagram?

[D]

I have Ms. Sierra, Ms. C I E R R A. That's my personal page. And then I have Society shoes by Sierra. So I run them on both. Like most times I do business, though my personal page has more of a following. I will post more of my content on there. And then on Society shoes by Sierra, I'll put more of my official campaigns, more things like that. Now the. Also another reason why I was considering going into a store is because I got invited to do New York Fashion Week. So I was. Maybe if I did New York Fashion Week, I could, you know, kind of have them in the store to be purchased as well, you know? But I also understand what you're saying as far as, like I said, the Fashion Week.

[A]

Yeah. Push the people to your online store. Yeah, yeah. You're. You're. And you are. You're going to be awesome on content.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

You sharing your love for the product and each shoe and what style would fit with what outfit. And also for comfortability, like you sharing with me.

[D]

Get ready with me and things like that. Like dressing the shoes.

[A]

Yes. 100. Yeah. And. And then you drive people. I'm just looking at your Instagram here now. And you know, your. Your designs are awesome. But yeah, I would just be doing a lot more from a content perspective.

[D]

So more posting.

[A]

Yeah. Around what you're doing and then. And then your journey. Like you as the. The designer, you being invited to this fashion Week. Yeah, you, you being here on Stay Paid, like more of you to get to know you, the designer and then the style guiding and stuff like that also. I mean you could, I just think that you haven't tested the waters at all on E Commerce.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So yeah, why not take the like.

[C]

Mary Kay almost approach to this. Like, because you can still meet people face to face and you can still get people. You don't even have to have a, you know, business front, but just like go get together to show your product and sell it to them in person. You know, instead of having the expense and overhead of leasing something and the risk that's there, go prove your product and then that's a super proven product. People are buying it right off the bat without you having to pitch them so hard. Then you've got something good for. Maybe retail would be my thought, but I'm, you know, take it with a grain of salt.

[A]

You're still at the entrepreneur phase where you're trying to prove product market fit.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

And the only way like to prove product market fit is through pounding the pavement. So it's not that what you're doing is wrong. I, I think you did in the list of 150 and emailing them and then calling them and go door knocking. Kudos all day long. You have time to do it, keep doing that. But where the business model is probably for you is in this B2C sorry, direct to consumer off of E Commerce. And so I just would encourage you that now maybe you don't have the money to test ads. That might be the issue for you is you don't have the money.

[D]

That's another thing I have been trying to apply for grants. Maybe, maybe like in December I maybe apply for maybe about 10 grants. And of course I didn't get approved for any of those. So that's another thing I was trying to do in regards to trying to find grants and things of that nature to maybe help a little bit. But also the inventory head and things of that nature. I do understand what you're saying in regards to that because it would be no point in me purchasing all of this inventory if I'm not able to sell it.

[E]

Is that correct?

[A]

Yeah. The problem is when you go to retail is you have to have inventory. So who's gonna buy that inventory? Well, the store's not buying it. They make you buy it and put it in on their store. And so that costs money. And that cash flow, cash flow is the killer of all businesses, is the poor management of Cash flow. And so you're going to be in a cash flow crunch where what you've got to do is figure out a model where you can sell and get money in the door. And you, I'm assuming you probably have good margin on your product because it's a 220. Do you know what your margin is? Like your gross profit margin?

[D]

Not off a hand, No.

[A]

I guess so you want to know that. So it's like how much you sell the shoe for versus the cogs of how much it costs you to create the shoe. So you know your, your gross profit is going to be your revenue minus.

[B]

Your call landed cost.

[A]

And then you'll have your op, you know, expenses, you know, type idea that you flow. But you at least need to know how much it costs you to make the shoe. Do you know how much it costs you to make it?

[D]

Oh, yes, I know how much it costs me to make the shoe. It depends on different designs, but yes, I do.

[A]

Okay, because then that tells you your margin ultimately after you know, everything and then that, then that tells you what you can spend on marketing. Right. You don't want to be, you know, like, how much can you spend to acquire a shoe client on Instagram? That's the question. Right? It's like, so if it costs, if I sell it for 200 bucks and it cost me a hundred to make it, so I have a hundred dollars that I'm going to profit. So that $100. Well, some of that's going to go to my rent for the business. Some of that's going to go to my electricity, my phones, my Internet. Right. And some of that's going to go to the marketing.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's the piece that you need to map out that goes, okay, how do I get to a 20%, you know, profit margin where I'm netting 20% after all COGS, all cost of goods and all expenses are paid. I'm bringing home at least 20% in, in the business. And so that's where you know, from a marketing standpoint, when you go out and try to test, let's say Instagram ads, you need to track how much did I spend to how many customers I got. And that's. So if you spend a hundred dollars, you get one customer. Your cost of acquisition was $100.

[D]

Got you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So if you ever watch Shark Tank and they want to know your cost of acquisition.

[D]

Okay, right.

[A]

It's like that your cost of acquisition then tells you, do you have a model to where you can just spend a Dollar and make two. I can spend a dollar, make two and then what? You're not even counting, which is even better. And this is the LTV lifetime value. You might have. Stephen, go buy a pair of shoes. You'd look pretty good in those shoes. Steven. No, you might have to go buy a pair of shoes for Lissa. And he lists them. I love the shoes. And they come back and reorder another pair. So now they were $200, but the. The average client orders two pairs over the course of their lifetime with you. So your average lifetime value is 400 bucks.

[D]

Gotcha.

[A]

And so in the ratio you want in a healthy company is at least usually a 1 to 3 ratio of CAC to LTV. Obviously, the best businesses, you know, are way more than that. But that means for every, you know, it cost you, you know, a dollar to make the or to get the client, you make $3 from the client. So that ratio, like, that's a minimum that you want to hit. Most people want to see this one to four ratio. But businesses, I think, like Starbucks and stuff like that, they have like a 1 to 14 ratio type idea. So, you know, the better business is obviously you make more per client, but you need at least like a 1 to 3 type ratio for a really, you know, a healthy business that can sustain.

[D]

Gotcha. I appreciate all of this information, you guys.

[A]

You're amazing. The shoe designs truly are awesome. I'm gonna have Megan check them out.

[D]

Thank you so much.

[A]

I think your takeaways from this is get on content and your love for meeting the people and your passion for fashion. Well, look what I just did there, people. Hashtag your passion for fashion. You do through your content of your social media. And then you need to start building the metrics of the ads to purchasing the E Commerce size side of your business. Emails, right? And we didn't even talk about emails. But the email list that you need to start building from, you know, the people you meet so you can send out promotions right before the holidays, so you can send out, you know, right before Mother's Day, tell all the people on your email list, get these shoes. So you got to build the email list. You got to start advertising on Instagram, Facebook, and start measuring your spend to your buying how. What was that? CAC? What was that?

[D]

Cost of acquisition, 1 to 3%.

[A]

One to three ratio is the minimum you're trying to look for.

[D]

That's correct. Was the dad answered correctly?

[A]

No. Well, what I'm saying is, like, you spend a dollar, you make three. Think of It.

[D]

Okay, got you.

[A]

It's cac. So cost. How much did it cost me to acquire a client versus ltv? What do I make off of this client Now? LTV stands for lifetime value. The problem with lifetime value is you might find lifetime value over 10 years because a client might reorder from you in that time span. So it's like impossible to run the business totally off LTV. So I usually tell people, set your LTV at like 12 months, 24 months. It's not true. LTV, but, you know, in a situation, economically, I. I get a client for a hundred bucks over the course of 24 months. My LTV, my lifetime value of 24 months is X. And I want to see a one to three type ratio there or more.

[D]

Gotcha. Okay.

[A]

Love it. You're amazing. I already, already followed you, but great stuff and congrats.

[D]

Thank you so much. I appreciate you giving me all of this information. I'm going to definitely put it in place.

[B]

Let us know how Fashion Week goes.

[D]

Yeah, I will. Am I able to get back on here again?

[A]

Yeah, we'll have to bring you back and give us an update. So we want an update after Fashion Week and we want to see what you took action on because I can tell you're an action taker. You're a hustler. So I love it.

[D]

Thank you guys so much.

[A]

Yep. Have a great one. Thank you.

[D]

Bye.

[A]

She had great designs. That was phenomenal. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Great designs.

[B]

Make sure to get your questions answered here live on Stay Paid. You can go to remindermedia.com ask and we will reach out and get you scheduled here on the show. All right, there you go. Make sure you get your questions answered live here on Stay Paid. You can go to remindermedia.com ask. Submit your questions there. We'll get you scheduled here in the show. Our next caller, Lacala calling from Virginia. How are you? Welcome to Stay Paid.

[E]

Hi, how is everyone doing? It's Lakela. Yep. I'm down in Yorktown, Virginia.

[A]

Yorktown. Well, Lakela, thank you for. Yeah, we can hear you. Can you hear us?

[E]

Yes.

[A]

All right. Love it. Thank you for joining us. Stay Paid. We're excited to have you on the show. How can we help you grow your business? Like, what is the question you have or thing that maybe is holding you back that we can help you with?

[E]

Yeah. So something that I'm definitely have been having a lot of conversations with other professionals and one that we find is kind of common, and I've kind of come up with a way that I Wanted to ask it. So hopefully it'll be clear when it comes to buyers and sellers who are unsure about the market and unsure about the timing. And because there's this level of uncertainty, they feel waiting is the safest thing to do. So I'm always just wondering, what can I do? Or what's the role of the agent? Like, what can we do that will help people make better decisions? Because waiting is not always most beneficial to them. In fact, it can actually cost them.

[A]

Yeah, great question. Yeah, really good question. And a struggle I think everybody has been facing lately, especially with mortgage rates where they are. And the majority of the nation is sitting on what, less than a 4%. Like 4% or less is what the majority of the nation has been sitting on, which is crazy. Can you give me a little background of your business? How long you've been in real estate? Kind of. What's your volume? A level from a transaction side that you do short.

[E]

So this year actually marks me being licensed for 32 years. I am originally from Virginia, but I started my real estate career in Georgia. So I got licensed in Georgia in 94. I was in the Atlanta market at the time. When I started out, I did a lot of relocation, so worked with buyers and sellers, relocated back to Virginia in 2013 because my parents were aging. And I have found myself primarily in the niche working with seniors. My volume is usually around about 4 million or so a year, doing roughly about 12 to 15 units per year, but always looking to grow, always looking to develop. Myself.

[A]

Yeah, well done. You are a solid producer. And congrats on that's okay. I was saying well done. You are a solid producer with many, many years of experience. My gut tells me you pretty much already know the answer to the question in this regard of you are really a real estate consultant, right? So part of your business, you have to do sales and you have to do marketing. You have to attract people in, but you're really consulting people based upon the needs that they have and the desire that they want and their situation economically. And so when I think about your question of how do I guide people the right way, you know, when I think about, you know, the sales process and the real estate consulting process, it really starts with, can you get to the true pain point and the true reason behind them wanting to move? And you really have to get that, like, what is the motivation? Is it a job? Is it that they need more room because they just had a kid? Like, what is that driving motivation? And then that plays into, of course, their urgency and that plays into you being able to consult them the right way. Because when you put pressure on them to try to educate them of, no, you shouldn't wait, you should be moving. Sometimes people will move. It doesn't have to be the best economical situation because their desired outcome is different than that. Like, they maybe don't totally care. Because I know we do a lot of investing. There's a lot of investment deals we've gotten where it's like a great deal for us, the investor. And you would be thinking that this homeowner is like, well, you're losing out on 50 grand in, in equity. You could take it to market instead of selling to us for cash. But that's not what they ultimately want. They want a speedy transaction. They want cash in hand right away. They don't want to have to deal with it. And so not everybody is driven by the same things, is the point I'm making. And I would encourage you that it starts with, are you in your appointment getting the true reason of motivation? And then if you are and you feel like you're getting that, then it moves to, how do you convince people that they should be moving even though they're thinking I should wait? Because the market might change or, you know, interest rates might go down or whatever. You can't control the market, but you can educate them on what the market traditionally does. Right. And do home values go up or down? Lakela, do home values go up or down? Do they appreciate both?

[E]

So because they're. We operate in cycles.

[A]

Yep. So if you hold long enough in real estate, are you going to lose money? Are you going to make money?

[E]

Typically, you're going to make money if you hold it long enough. You're going to make it.

[A]

You're going to make money. Exactly. So what I get into with people, it's like, hey, if I know and understand your outcome and your goal that you want. We know real estate is an appreciating asset that if you hold long enough, you will win in this business. And ultimately, prices go up. They don't usually come down. So is there a chance that they could time. Try to time the market in terms of, like, when a mortgage rate is going to dip or when house prices are going down? Sure, they could try, but what do. What does every major investor tell you? What does everybody know in this. In this business, you can't really time the market. And that's why the whole term date, the rate came right. Came in. So I would just encourage you that I think, you know that there isn't really a great value add that you can wow them with besides the actual facts. And it really comes down to what is their desired outcome. And that's what I'm going to push on. I'm going to push on the emotional desired outcome. And then I'm going to confidently explain to them that, hey, you can hold and wait to time the market. But traditionally, and what I've seen over my 32 years of experience is it's almost impossible to time the market. So what you are better off doing is going off of the things that we know to be true, that real estate appreciates usually 4% a year. And if you hold, if you're not going to sell this house in two years, you're probably going to do well, if you hold long enough. And I want to drive you back to the real reason why you're moving. The real reason why you want to list the home is because whatever that reason was, you don't want to know. You no longer want to walk upstairs anymore because of the potential falling because you said you were working with seniors, like, what's the reason they want to downsize. You don't want to have to take care of this property anymore and that quality of life. And so, yes, I want to make sure I protect you from an economic standpoint, but I also want to make sure I guide you the correct way of your quality of life and the reasons why you should actually move. Now, that's where I've seen it work with Acre Brothers, is that people will make decisions based upon the emotional outcome and quality of life they want, but they get so nervous that they're going to make a terrible decision financially. So it's your job to assure them, well, financially, here's what the market does, here's the difference in money and that you might save, let's say, if rates went down by a, you know, half a percentage point, or what you might save if the market turned by 10 grand. But is that worth your quality of life? Is that worth what you're living through right now? That's the real question. We have to decide, and I'm here to consult you in this and give you the best opportunity. That's where I would go with it. Does that make sense to you?

[E]

Oh, Luke. And I totally agree with you. And I also think during. There are sometimes when motivation may change, like it may. It may adjust. And so I said, as I'm listening to you, it's like, that's all great if they would get back on the phone, you know, I have a few will have that conversation. Not open to conversations. So you can't do that. If they're not, they think they know and now they're not answering your calls, your follow up calls.

[A]

That's such a great point. It's why on your first call, one of the main things you have to do in your first conversations is you try your hardest. And it's, you know, it's a difficult thing, but you try your hardest to get to the real motivation, the real reason of wanting to buy or sell. You've got to push extremely hard. It's like I'll give you comparable with reminder media. When we sell, right. Our magazines to people to send or our, you know, marketing products. I tell our sales team the first objection that you get is not real. Not because it's not important to that person, but nine times out of 10, most people, it's like you walk into a retail store, the person asks you, can I help you find something? And the initial gut reaction is no. And it's not because that person is not interested in buying something in that retail store. It's just a, it's just how human nature is. It's just you throw up a guard because I'm going to have to make a decision. I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to reveal something that's vulnerable that they could maybe use against me. And so your job as the professional is to push through what you know to be surface level. And it's not that they're not telling you their total real motivation, but they're telling you maybe the surface level of their motivation and this is why they're. Have you ever heard of the five whys?

[E]

Yes.

[A]

Have you ever heard of that?

[E]

I've heard of the five.

[A]

So the five wise, for those who are listening. Well, I don't. We'll have to ask you what the five Ds are after this.

[B]

But the reason people move.

[A]

It's the reason people move. Yeah, divorce, death, you know, stuff like that. But the five wise, or it's, it's essentially a thought process of getting to the true reason. So if Lakela says, you know, I'm wanting to move and I want to move over because I want to be in a different area. Well, why do you want to be in a different area? Well, I'm really looking for, you know, more acreage. Why are you looking for more acreage? And you go five wise deep because then you'll find out they want more acreage because they have young kids. And they want their kids to be able to be outside. Oh, awesome. You know, and you get to that deeper why, which is the emotional poll. And remember, people are convinced on logic, but they buy on emotion. And this is, like, proven in psychology. The way we make decisions is through the emotional part of our brain. And if I was smarter, I would know the different parts of the brain, but it's the emotional part of the brain. And that's why it's like, people will say, it doesn't feel right in my gut. What does that even mean? You know what I mean? Like 2. 2 plus 2 is 4. It's not 5, it's not 6. 2 plus 2 is 4. So what do you mean it doesn't feel right in my gut. It's because people make decisions emotionally, so they got to be convinced on logic. Well, the convincing on logic is you rightfully explaining and consulting to them. What does the real estate market do? What would the difference be if they held? What would the, the chances of them being able to time the market be? All these. Are you as a professional guiding them and saying, hey, look, these are the facts. This is the logic. But the reason why I share this logic with you is because I want to get back to the main reason why you want to actually sell your home and get to the new home. And then you give that emotional. And what is that peace of mind worth to you? What is that emotional quality of life worth to you? And when you get people thinking that way, they'll be like, you're right. You know, I could maybe time the market and save ten grand. But, you know, historically, even the great investor Warren Buffett says, don't try to time the market.

[E]

Yes. So you meant, you meant W H, y, not the letter Y. So it's like.

[A]

Oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. But it is a. It's a way for you to try to get deeper with people is like, ask five whys. Like, you might not always make it to the fifth why, but it's why. And why do you say that? And why do you say that? And you got to be careful because it might come across as a. As a terror interrogation. So you got to frame it appropriately. But that's what you want to do. But great question. Because everybody is struggling with it.

[E]

Well, my mother would say I should be good at that because I did that well as a kid.

[A]

Yeah, I read you, Lakela. I mean, you're a really good producer. Solid. Been in the industry. You could be coaching me. Been in the industry for 30 plus years. You're struggling with the same thing all of us are, is people are sitting on low interest rates, prices are super high. Buyers and sellers are thinking, is this the right time to sell? Because we just came through one of the greatest markets ever and now we're in the worst market ever. And they're wondering, should I hold? And the, the, the answer to that is, well, what do you want out of life? Are you holding just for money? Are you holding for a quality of life? Like, what do you want? Like, I got to get to that before I consult you on the investing side. Like, what does it mean for your economics? Because, you know, everybody wants to feel like they're, they're getting a great deal, right? When they're moving, when they're buying and selling, they're. They're either getting what they want for their property or they're buying a great deal. Everybody wants to feel that way. And so your goal is to guide them through. Is it a great deal? Are they going to win in the end? And how do you showcase that them to them through logic and then tie it back to their main reason for moving? And you focus on seniors. So you have such a great. You know why you do? Because, and this sounds maybe bad, I mean this respectfully. Do they have a long time to live? Is, is money, is money important to them? Like the ultimate importance to them and.

[E]

It'S money and not nearly as much as a younger person.

[A]

Exactly. That's my point. It's like, I mean it respectfully of like, yeah, I hope they live. But they are way more mature of going, hey, my quality of life means more to me now than having an extra five grand, ten grand in my bank account. And I still believe they will actually do well even if you convince them over the right logic to, to move. So that's amazing. And then also you think about what's the reason why they want to move. It's usually downsizing so they don't have to do as much work, the landscaping work. They don't have to walk upstairs anymore. It's usually those pain point reasons that are true quality of life things. They might want to be closer to their grandbabies. Right. And so you have such emotional connections that you can drive for quality of life to get to them to move. But you're going to have to do that on the first call because your problem is you're getting some calls and appointments, but then they're ghosting you is what saying I'm hearing?

[E]

Yep, some.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Or they'll go out with Buyers, they'll go out and see things, and then they get discouraged because maybe their budget can't get them what they want. So I'm not getting ghosted right away, but it is happening.

[A]

Yeah. Well, the other thing I would add to all of this discussion that's kind of a different angle on this, same problem is you do not have a probably sales problem from a client perspective of helping these people, because you want to make the best decision for them. And maybe the best decision is they should not move. You need a bigger pipeline.

[E]

That's right.

[A]

So you need more. Yeah, you need more leads so you don't have to feel any commission breath. Not saying you do, but we all feel that pressure. You don't feel any commission breath to close this deal with this senior because you have such a full pipeline of people to help that you can be so truthful with everybody you talk to. Like, you can just be brass, tax, authentic and truthful and go, hey, I believe you're making a mistake because you're wanting to time the market. And here's why I say that. And I just mean that because I. You know, some agents won't tell you that because they're just interested in getting a deal done. My job is to consult you here and tell you the facts. And that's why I've been in business for 32 years. And I would love to help you, but I just want to make sure you are armed up with the best facts possible to help you and your family and what you're trying to do. And if you have a full pipeline, you'll have no fear telling people the truth. You have no fear telling people, this is what it is. Take it or leave it. I'm here to help. I want to serve. And there's a lot of people I'm trying to serve right now, and I would love for you to be one of them. But if not, man, I'll keep in touch with you. Whether you buy today or in four years, I want to be your person, and you'll always get the truth from me. And, dude, that's gonna. That's gonna make people feel like, oh, I want to work with Lakela.

[E]

Oh, what? Yeah. Yeah. So that's the. That's the answer, and that's the answer. I keep coming back to a bigger pipeline.

[A]

A bigger pipeline. I love it. Kayla, thank you so much for coming on the show, because I know. I hope this was helpful to you, but I know this will be helpful to so many agents out there that are struggling with the same thing, but really appreciate you being a listener coming on the show. Let's connect on Instagram, and we'd love to hear how it goes for you. And if you need help building your pipeline, let's connect, because I. I can help you do that, whether it's through paid advertising or, you know, marketing to your referrals like you're doing. And we can step it up a notch. There's awesome.

[B]

Thank you, Lakela.

[A]

Good luck.

[E]

All right. Thanks so much, Luke. All right, you and Josh, have a great day. Bye.

[B]

You, too. Bye.

[A]

Sam.