Stay Paid Podcast Episode Summary
Episode: Stop Setting “SMART” Goals—Why the Best Agents Set Stupid Goals (Featuring Verl Workman)
Release Date: April 7, 2025
Hosts: Luke Acree & Joshua Steich
Guest: Verl Workman, Distinguished Speaker, Author, and CEO of Workman Success Systems

1. Introduction to Verl Workman

The episode kicks off with hosts Luke Acree and Joshua Steich introducing their guest, Verl Workman. Verl is celebrated as a distinguished speaker, author, and the co-founder and CEO of Workman Success Systems. With nearly three decades of experience, he has delivered over 1,000 seminars and keynotes to real estate and sales professionals worldwide, focusing on sales, marketing, management, and technology.

Notable Quote:

Joshua Steich [00:47]: "Verl is a distinguished speaker, author and the co-founder and CEO of Workman Success Systems… delivering remarkable results through his expertise in sales, marketing, management, and technology."

2. Current State of the Real Estate Industry

The conversation swiftly transitions to the evolving landscape of the real estate industry. Luke discusses significant movements, including Keller Williams' substantial investment from Stone Point Capital, Redfin's acquisition for $1.75 billion by Rocket, and Zillow's introduction of the super app aiming to capture a larger user base.

Notable Quotes:

Luke Acree [01:11]: "Zillow flex team, but soon it will be probably a Zillow agent or a Zillow team… just looking for how do I get my brand out there in every way."

Luke Acree [02:45]: "The industry is in a shake-up right now… What's happening with Gary Keller and them."

Verl responds by analyzing Keller Williams' capital infusion as a strategic move to prepare for anticipated market changes. He highlights Zillow and Rocket Mortgage’s efforts to disrupt the traditional agent model by offering direct-to-consumer services, thereby positioning real estate agents more as commodities than trusted professionals.

Notable Quotes:

Verl Workman [02:45]: "If they can eliminate the real estate agent from the transaction… the agent becomes more of a commodity and a door opener rather than a trusted professional."

Verl Workman [04:32]: "I think smart goals are for losers… smart goals are the dumbest thing I've ever heard."

3. Misalignment of Incentives in Real Estate

Luke brings up Charlie Munger's philosophy that all business problems stem from misaligned incentives. He suggests that lowering the barriers to becoming a real estate agent has led to a surplus of underperforming agents, diluting the industry's overall quality.

Notable Quotes:

Luke Acree [04:59]: "The industry could be so much better than it is… misalignment of incentives that has crushed."

Luke Acree [05:03]: "There are 1.5 million members or something like that, there's only 600 something thousand financial advisors…"

Verl agrees, emphasizing that many agents obtain their licenses with minimal training, primarily to save on commission costs during personal transactions. This lack of rigorous training and specialization results in a majority of agents performing poorly, with only the top 10% handling 90% of transactions.

Notable Quotes:

Verl Workman [05:56]: "The best trainer of real estate is the game… you can't be good at it unless you do a lot of transactions."

Verl Workman [06:38]: "Lack of professionalism is a big deal… the consumer has a higher level of expectation."

4. Specialization vs. Generalization in Real Estate Agents

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the importance of specialization in the real estate industry. Verl argues that while other professions have evolved to include specialists (e.g., orthodontists, cosmetic specialists), real estate has remained predominantly generalized. This lack of specialization hampers agents' ability to deliver exceptional value to clients.

Notable Quotes:

Verl Workman [06:41]: "The real estate industry has stayed in generalization… what kind of real estate? I do everything."

Verl Workman [08:05]: "Specialization is the industry gap that we've been missing…"

Verl advocates for building teams where agents focus on specific niches, such as buyers or listings, to enhance expertise and client satisfaction. He points out that specialization leads to a better consumer experience and mitigates price objections by delivering superior value.

Notable Quotes:

Verl Workman [10:08]: "For every listing you generate, you should close 1.5 buy side transactions."

Verl Workman [16:56]: "Greatness is predictable and so is average…"

5. Team Structures and Profit Margins

The conversation delves into effective team structures and the financial health of real estate teams. Verl outlines ideal profit margins, emphasizing the importance of balancing production and operational costs. He recommends striving for a 50% gross profit after the cost of sale and a 20-35% net profit at the end of the year, depending on personal production levels.

Notable Quotes:

Verl Workman [13:06]: "We want our teams to run at a 50% gross profit after the cost of sale…"

Luke Acree [14:11]: "We’re around 20%. We feel we're not doing maybe a little higher because Stephen's gotten a lot more into production."

Verl also shares insights on agent compensation structures, advocating for performance-based lead distribution as a reward rather than an entitlement. He stresses the necessity of agents contributing to lead generation activities to qualify for leads.

Notable Quotes:

Verl Workman [15:26]: "Providing leads is a qualification… every agent is responsible for putting 25 new leads in the database every month."

Verl Workman [15:48]: "Lead distribution is a reward, not an entitlement."

6. Critique of SMART Goals and Advocacy for "Stupid Goals"

A pivotal segment of the episode features Verl’s strong critique of traditional SMART (Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant, Time-bound) goals. He argues that SMART goals are inherently limiting and prevent individuals and organizations from reaching their full potential.

Notable Quotes:

Verl Workman [16:56]: "Smart goals are for losers… smart goals are the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard."

Verl Workman [19:21]: "Who crushes the dreams of children by telling them they need to have realistic goals? That’s what a smart goal is."

Instead, Verl promotes the concept of “stupid goals,” which are ambitious, strategic, transformational, purpose-driven, innovative, dynamic, and continuously evolving. These goals push individuals beyond their comfort zones, fostering growth and adaptability.

Notable Quotes:

Verl Workman [17:47]: "Stupid goals are goals that are so stupid you're afraid to say them out loud…"

Luke Acree [29:20]: "Innovative and dynamic…"

Verl shares personal anecdotes, including his high school experience where his unrealistic goals were discouraged, leading him to disengage from the conventional educational system. He underscores the importance of setting goals that challenge and inspire, even if they seem unattainable.

Notable Quotes:

Verl Workman [20:03]: "I pulled my kid out of the class… who crushes the dreams of children by telling them they need to have realistic goals."

Verl Workman [22:57]: "We have to change our culture to… We’re doing better than we’ve ever done before. We still haven’t hit our goals."

7. Insights from "Raving Referrals"

Towards the end of the episode, Verl introduces his book, "Raving Referrals for Real Estate." He elaborates on its core premise, which revolves around his 8651 program designed to help agents close 86 deals a year by working with 50 people and dedicating just one hour a day.

Notable Quotes:

Verl Workman [26:37]: "The premise is this. We wrote a program called 8651, how to close 86 deals a year, working with 50 people, one hour a day."

Verl Workman [26:56]: "We teach the art of the ask, how to activate communities…"

Verl emphasizes the tactical approach of his book, focusing on actionable strategies rather than mere concepts. He champions the idea of activating one's database and generating a robust referral business without incurring significant lead generation costs.

Notable Quotes:

Verl Workman [27:11]: "I'm tactical… Here's the how to, here's the story of someone doing it, here's the tool or the resource."

Verl Workman [27:51]: "The book is filled with just the hows…"

8. Conclusion and Action Items

As the episode wraps up, Verl encourages listeners to embrace "stupid goals" to drive substantial growth and transformation in their businesses. Luke and Joshua reiterate the importance of setting ambitious objectives, urging agents and entrepreneurs to break free from conventional constraints.

Notable Quotes:

Luke Acree [29:18]: "Stop setting smart goals. Start being a little stupid in your business."

Luke Acree [29:47]: "Remember the difference between a top producer, mediocre producer. In every business, it's top producers take action."

The hosts conclude by highlighting how goal-setting philosophies differentiate top producers from their peers, emphasizing relentless action and unwavering commitment to ambitious targets.

Key Takeaways

• Market Evolution: The real estate industry is undergoing significant changes with major investments and technological advancements from companies like Zillow and Redfin.

• Importance of Specialization: Specializing in specific niches within real estate enhances expertise and client satisfaction, distinguishing top-performing agents from the rest.

• Rethinking Goals: Traditional SMART goals may limit potential. Embracing "stupid goals" can lead to transformative growth and innovation.

• Effective Team Structures: Balancing production and operational costs is crucial for profitable and sustainable real estate teams.

• Actionable Strategies: Implementing tactical approaches, such as Verl’s 8651 program, can significantly boost referral-based business without excessive lead generation costs.

Connect with Verl Workman

• Book: Raving Referrals for Real Estate – Available on Amazon
• LinkedIn & Instagram: @earlworkman
• Contact: Private message on social platforms or through his book's resources

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