← Stay Paid Podcast
Stay Paid Podcast
The $150M Agent Strategy That Creates Clients for LIFE (Allan Dalton)
00:53:43
Are you stuck chasing the next transaction while your past clients disappear? Industry legend Allan Dalton—former CEO of Realtor.com and SVP at Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices—joins Stay Paid to reveal the exact strategy top agents use to create...
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to the Stay Paid podcast, where we help agents and entrepreneurs master the latest business trends to unlock growth and create a life of freedom. Brought to you by Reminder Media.
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B
Welcome to Stay Paid. I'm Joshua Stike.
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A
And I'm Luke Acree.
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B
And returning to the podcast in the studio in person, Mr. Alan Dalton.
- [00:19]
C
Thanks.
- [00:20]
A
If we had a studio audience, they'd be. Applause.
- [00:24]
C
I'm not so sure, but thank you.
- [00:25]
B
Great to be here, Alan. If you don't know, you haven't seen him before on our podcast. He is a real estate industry legend, former CEO of realtor.com SVP of Berkshire Hathaway. Former CEO. What else am I missing? Real living all over the industry.
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C
By the way, it's Berkshire Hathaway home service service.
- [00:44]
A
Yeah, don't mess that up. Gino will be mad, man.
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B
He is a walking dispenser of golden nuggets, as we like to say here on the podcast. Thank you for joining us again and in person.
- [00:55]
C
My pleasure and my privilege.
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A
Yeah, man. Alan, it is awesome to have you so. So, people, if you haven't watched the episode we did with you, it's a couple months back, right?
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B
Yeah.
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A
You gotta go check out that episode. I got the most compliments I've ever gotten from an episode, from that episode. So it speaks to just one, your wealth of knowledge, but also your delivery. You're incredible from that perspective. We then from that episode, because we had already been talking, had, had you come on. We were introduced to so many brands, brokers have recommended you. And then Daryl, who runs our enterprise sales, you and him go way back, good friends. So I've gotten to get to know you. I consider you a mentor now because you're just a wealth of information. And when you were coming down, because you're doing leading up kind of our R and D and you're doing a lot of, you know, help for us with the organization here at Reminder Media. I said we got to have you back on the show because I want you to share more of your insights. I want to start just diving right in because you've done some work for us. And I'm thinking about. You were telling me about Julie Vanderbilt, your agent, and you first came to know about Reminder Media and what we're doing for keeping, you know, creating clients for life. You came to know about us by being a homeowner. That was your first experience. Maybe you didn't know, obviously it was Reminder Media yet, but you actually experienced us from your agent. So talk to us about the Client for Life concept. The Being a relational agent versus a transactional agent. And how Julie, who is just crushing it out of Connecticut, your agent is doing it so well.
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C
Yes, in fact it's, it's very handy that I have with me some of the examples of what Julie does. And the reason I do is because I work with a number of clients. And one of my clients, Laffey Berkshire Hathaway home services company in Long Island, Brooklyn and Queens. I, I'm doing a several month coaching program for them on double your income. And I have a number of guests and luminaries come in and share what they do because there's nothing like real world, day by day practical experience. And so I'll do a very brief little case study of why does Julie. Why is. I think she's the number one agent in Connecticut. But I do know that last year she did over 150 million of personal sales volume and a team several hundred million in addition. And the great thing about Julie is that she's a giver and she's very generous with what she does. And so she has allowed me to basically share some of her concepts. And I did it like the other day in Long island and I have this in my automobile with me. And this is what's amazing about Julie. The first taste that I have of what Julie can do for her clients is that when my wife and I were looking to move to Connecticut, she brought me to a property. I was out there first because my wife was back in Connecticut and I was doing in California, I was doing some consulting in Connecticut. And this is the home that we bought and the reason we ended up buying it, I wasn't really even that interested because I wanted to live closer to Manhattan.
- [04:01]
A
Okay.
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C
But I brought it home and my wife picked this up out of my briefcase and it's a.
- [04:07]
B
If you're listening to audio only, go to YouTube. Check out the video so you can see what Alan is holding.
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C
Yeah. This is a lifestyle story. Every one of Julie's listings, whether it be 100,000 or $20 million home is like a 20 something page lifestyle story.
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A
It's crazy.
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C
And that it's a. She views the home seller as a co author, a co narrator of the lifestyle story as opposed to a listing presentational victim. Okay. And so within the lifestyle story there's. She's got a program neighbors know best testimony from the neighbors, home improvements. Okay. A profile on the town. Like for example, what percentage of homeowners bring up home improvements. They all do. What percentage of brochures are all the home Improvements listed virtually none. As I mentioned, Story of the town special features, an interview with the homeowners, 20 something pages.
- [05:00]
A
It's crazy. It's literally like a magazine. But it's on the property.
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C
It's a magazine, but she does this on every single listing.
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A
That's crazy.
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C
Most agents are doing brochures, three or four panels and it's just basically the copy that's already on the Internet. And there's no way in a million years we would have bought this home if my wife hadn't seen the brochure. She fell in love with it and we bought the property. So that's how she acquired us as a client. Basically the next step. And then she does this for all of her properties. Again, each one is a lifestyle story. But then now we've been in the home for seven years. As we speak today I have one of her electricians putting an electrical panel at a rental property in the next town over. So she has the part of the directory. Now many agents provide list of home service providers. But she's been doing this for 20 years. It's every single category. It's online as well. She created a program called air All Inclusive Real Estate. It's a website and she even has like her vendors paying for all of these ads. So this is how she makes sure she never falls into the trap that hundreds of thousands of realtors done. They actually use this term. I've got to do a better job of keeping in touch with my past clients. Now I've been saying this for 20 years. If you're calling people your past clients, that makes you their past agent. So basically this is the way in which she continues the relationship. I love the new program. You're introducing your client, your lead because I like what homes.com did. You're listing your lead. An agent has to expend so much time, effort and money to secure that listing. Why shouldn't they also benefit from the leads not just for that home? Because in most occasions the buyers aren't going to buy that home. Why shouldn't they be the beneficiary of all of the investment they've made? Well, when people have a sphere of influence, the problem is not all of them are influencing their sphere. So if somebody has this sphere of influence and they've worked arduously for many years and in some cases decades to have that sphere of influence. Now what they're thinking about is what is their sphere of influence share. Now they're not going to have a sphere of influence share. They're not going to convert their sphere into all of their clients unless they're sustaining value over the 10 to 12 years that the average person's staying at home. So this is one of the ways. So I'm showing you. This is a case study on the anatomy of a marketing pro and why she makes over $2 million, I estimate a year.
- [07:40]
A
One thing I want to point out, like in there, that's tied together is she does that Neighbors Knows Best, which is incredible. So like, I want people. I don't want people to miss that is she essentially is interviewing the neighbors of the listing and getting their thoughts. The listing. And then using that in the market area. Right. Which is incredible. Right. Because it brings in lifestyle. And then she's tying the partner program.
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C
Exactly.
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A
And we had Amy Stockburger on, who's a client of ours, sending the magazine. And she does that. Like, I wonder if her and Julie have similar programs because she's doing similar. Where she creates this all inclusive, where she has all the partners, where you can get access to and get discounts, get all these different things. And she has a whole program. I think it's mostly online, where you can get access to electricity, but they pay her to be a part of that.
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C
That's exactly what Julie's been doing. But Julie's been doing this about 15 years.
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A
Yeah. Geez.
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C
And she actually has a name for it. It's a company, Air All Inclusive Real Estate. It's a website. Okay. Because she embodies the whole idea of treating people as a client for life as opposed to a past client. Because words matter and thoughts matter. The second somebody announces that somebody is their past client, they're informing their brain, their algorithms. Now I'm going to treat them as a past client. And you know where they end up? They only end up in a database. Databases aren't enough. I could have the largest database in Pennsylvania next week. I could buy the voter registration rolls for the Republican and Democratic Party and walk around town as proud as a peac. But in a year I might be a feather duster. Because what you've got to do is you've got to upgrade your sphere of influence from your database to your client base. The database gets things that everybody gets. Market updates and awards and so forth and so on. But the client base has to be treated, as you say, as a vip. And that's what she does. And I'm proud that we're in her client base and. And when she stands out, so the. So how does she sustain it? One of the Things is this the. Every single salesperson should ask themselves two questions. In fact, this is from the Harvard Business Review. I didn't go there, but I get the magazine. Okay. The first question is this. What do I do that my competition does? Also does, but I do better. And number two, what do I do that none of my competitors are doing? I send emails. Everybody sends emails. I invite people to a client appreciation. A lot of people do that. I send market updates. A lot of people do that. What, what can you do that no one else is doing? And what can you do that no one else is doing to the most important cadre or real estate retinue, if you will. And those are your. That's your sphere of influence. And so now this is to my home, okay. If I have the address here, it's an American lifestyle. Yeah. So I, we, we've been receiving for years from Julie American lifestyle. Now, how much intellectual capital does it take for an agent to appreciate? And I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it's mind boggling that not everybody has come to this conclusion. Or you're not doing a good enough job of getting people the opportunity to sign onto this.
- [11:01]
A
That might be true.
- [11:01]
C
The point is this. How many agents are ever on the front cover of a magazine that ends up in people's homes? Okay, that's about real estate. A lot of money, usually because they couldn't afford it. But I'll tell. But people talk about front cover. People front cover because if somebody is on the front cover. I did a study. I wrote a book on real estate influence, myself and Chris Stewart. And in my research, there's only two ways that people can influence others. One is through intimidation. But we can't do that. If you don't listen with me, you're not gonna have a house when you get home. We can't use intimidation. The only other way to get influence is through prestige. That's why agents want to say, I've got this certification, I'm a luxury specialist, so forth and so on. I have an mba. So prestige is the only other way that human beings can influence others other than intimidation. The irs, they have influence. They intimidate. Police officers, they can intimidate. A judge can intimidate. They have influence. The only other way research it, Google it, is through prestige. This is a prestigious publication and then Julie is on the front cover of it. So therefore she is influencing us. But would Julie send this to us, as smart as she is? If somebody from another company was sending this to us. No. That's why this is a one agent, one home proposition. And I think I have read in terms of the forensic analysis you've done on your company that the cost is less than a Hallmark. So it's a Hallmark card on steroids that somebody sends out a few years and then they have the front cover. And in the front cover, people should say, dear client, dear client and future client. This is something I'm going to be sent to you seasonally over the years because you've got to start treating people as a client. People have one doctor, one dentist, one attorney, and they've got 10 realtors. Okay, so how do you put it into this real estate roulette? You've got to do things that no one else is doing. And you've got to make the impression with the homeowner inside of their home, not on their cell phone, not on the billboard. Those are great. Still do that. But inside the home, because that's where you want to have real estate influence, inside of their real estate. And she's. And she's doing all of this and it's no secret why she's so successful.
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A
Yeah. She's doing it at such a high level. 150 million is just insane. Of personal production, which is insane. You had mentioned that Julie, like in the letter, Right. She's utilizing. I think you said chat. GPT.
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C
Yeah.
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A
To help write the letter. Because now you've obviously talked to Julie. It's kind of funny how the whole thing came full circle. Have you been getting the magazine not knowing one day you would end up on Luke Acre and Josh's podcast, which then would tie you to Reminder Media. And then it all comes full circle.
- [13:50]
C
It's a small world. Daryl, as you mentioned, lives down the street from me.
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A
Yeah.
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C
Julie's in town. And now here's the other magazine we've been getting for years. But to be home now, if you can really span. I don't think you can't get any closer. That's my home address here.
- [14:05]
A
Yeah.
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C
As you can see, this is a couple of years old here.
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A
Yeah.
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C
So I just happened. Excuse me, I just happened to have this.
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A
But that's some good shelf life right there.
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C
She has her. She has her. She has redefining real estate. Now, who would have thought. And here we're in 2025. Who would have thought in 2025 that redefining real estate would mean also including physical marketing because people are tactile. That's this. This isn't just digital. This is physical.
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A
Right.
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C
This is something that people can hold and feel and the doctor's office, the dentist's office in the home. And. And yet she's using chatgpt on the messaging. And so it's, it's, it's the combination of prop tech and what I call prop touch. I actually own the URL. Prop Touch.com. this is Prop Touch. This is using technology, AI in all of your algorithms. Okay. Because you have a program, I think likely, when people are likely to move.
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A
Yeah, that's.
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C
So you're using AI using out of tissue. But if, but agents have to do more to get these listings because more than ever, listings, it's the old cliche, but it's a true axiom. Listings are the name of the game because increasingly more buyers will go directly to the listing agent because they're going to try to circumvent what they think is having to pay a fee to the buyer agent. And so the great thing about listings is that they're geographically definable. They're defined by a sphere of influence. No one who gives you this fear of influence are listing people who live in Sweden or Germany. It's all within their marketplaces and they're predominantly homeowners. That is gold. That's where your clients have to become your leads. What are you doing to protect your sphere of influence? And this is what this does. And so it's. I'm very excited about it because I believe in it and I've been a recipient and my wife and I, we read this, we go through it and it. But the key is this. Who's on the fun cover? Julie. Who's on the inside cover? Julie, who's on her teams is included as well. A lot of the team members are doing this.
- [16:16]
A
Yeah. So one. Thank you. Because, you know, one thing that encourages me is obviously you've been in the industry for, I don't want to make you say the years, but 30 plus.
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C
Years, I'm assuming 40.
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A
40 at this point. You built a real estate company to 60 offices. Right. Then you went on to be CEO of realtor.com, cEO of a couple, you know, another real estate company. You were the SVP at Berkshire Hathaway. So you have all this experience, but the biggest thing I respect about you is you've told me multiple times, I've had some stupid ideas. So it means that actually means something because when you're praising, hey, the idea of prop touch and prop tech come together, the idea of your client, your lead, I know you're actually Speaking what you really think because you've told me other ideas suck, so. Which is.
- [17:01]
C
Well, I would never say it that way. And by the way, no, he did.
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A
He called me stupid one time. It was great.
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C
No, I didn't. If, listen, if I'm sounding, if I'm sounding too loud or too shrill, I'm coming over the first cold I think I've had in my life here. And I may be compensating coming across here too, a little bit too shrill. But in terms of building a, A company, no, I, I've, I've. I've been very fortunate to be able to do what I. Whatever talents God has given me to provide value to the agents in my own company, to agents who use realtor.com and I believe that a lot of agents, in fact, years ago I did a video say no to real estate tariffs. And I did that with the CEO of our parent company, Home Store. He was the founder of WebMD. And I coined that expression because people. When's the last time you received a referral from a doctor by referring somebody you know? How about an attorney? You don't. But agents have been paying what I call real estate tariffs. They're paying real estate tariffs because some of these companies that are lead gen companies, they're not expanding the buyer pool. In fact, we've had a lot less transactions this year than the other years and lead gen has never been more prominent. Okay, so it doesn't expand the buy a pool, but it's extracting 20, 30% of revenue out of the industry. We're not adding to the amount of transactions. So the. It's too late to put the Taft genie back in the bottle.
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A
Are you referring to. Just so I make sure I'm educated on this, are you Referring to like realtor.com when they send you a lead, they're taking 20%.
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C
No end up paying for these programs. Okay, okay. But the amount of money and some are charging referrals, you know, without getting into the particulars because you're.
- [18:50]
A
I mean, I'm not talking about naming companies, but I'm just saying, like, you're not talking about agents agent referrals. You're talking about companies giving referrals and you have to pay.
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C
What I'm saying is that people have to pay lead gen companies for those leads.
- [19:07]
A
Yes.
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C
Okay. Which can also be euphemistically called a referral.
- [19:13]
A
Okay.
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C
And so years ago, years ago, there weren't people that essentially intercepted traffic and then monetize it by charging people for the traffic they intercepted.
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A
Okay.
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C
That's a very skillful business model.com Zillow. Okay. They could do something that the industry wasn't doing. They invested billions of dollars to be the first point of contact. They recognize that they got the attention. 95% of consumers go online first. Okay. And then agency in terms of media placement, a referral. Referral fee, or paying for the portion of those leads in that geography is there's a cost of getting business that emanates off of Internet leads. Yeah, but that's different than homeowners. Okay. And so there's two ways of attracting people with content. The referral genie is out of the bottle when it comes to third party portals. And those leads are based on transactional content. When somebody's looking to buy or sell, they're going to go to Zillow, realtor.com quotes.com these are. They provide a great service. They helped elevate the industry so it kept pace with technology. But it's one thing to have to pay a referral or a tariff for somebody that might have come to you 20 years ago at an open house or walked in or called your office. That's one thing. It's another thing to have to pay a referral fee for people who live in your town. So how do you make sure that you don't have to pay a referral fee or a tariff of people who live in your community? You have to have relational content. So the transactional content. No one can compete. No one.
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A
Yeah, you're not going to beat Zillow.
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C
I used to have people come to me when I was CEO realtor.com from SEO company SEO, search engine optimization companies. And the first thing I'd say is this, hey, let's go to my computer and let me go to Google and search leading SEO companies and see where you guys come up. Oh my God. You didn't see everybody.
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B
Very good.
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C
Everybody's an expert on SEO. But no one has enough money to outfox 10,000 Google bots.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Such a great. Okay, so the, this search engine optimization game, no one can win. Put up the money, pay for your referral, you're successful enough to do it. And then it's a form of arbitrage. You pay this, you'll make this much money. That's a good business deal. But it's even a better business deal if you can get listings without having to pay for a referral that comes from your town. And therefore you have to have relational content. And so the whole business model of Zillow realtor.com's.com, is transactionally based. People are buying and selling. Right now, 95% are going to go to the websites and they're going to monetize that by charging referrals. I call taps, whatever. Not in a pejorative way, because I was part of that. I think that's very honorable. They're helping agents do more business. They make agents look better. And I love homes.com, your listing, your lead, but that's part of the business. The other part is that they're people move within 25 miles of where they live. Those are clients. Those are people who are going to sell, buy, but they have to sell before they buy. And if 90% of people aren't going back to their agents, what's happening to them? They're going online and they're going to end up where somebody's going to have to pay for that referral and the person's going online. Maybe the person looked at you sold the home six years ago because you didn't have a way of cultivating and sustaining that and you didn't have a way to do it uniquely and exclusively. Every day they're getting just listed cards, homes updates, they're getting awards. They've developed antibodies to that.
- [23:28]
A
Well, I shared, and I've probably shared this before on the podcast. It's like half of your database right now knows five other agents as well as they know you. So if you have a hundred people in your sphere, 50 of those people know five other real estate agents, half of them. So, like, the question you should ask yourself is, are you sure that they would choose you instead of the four other agents in that database or five other agents that they know? Because 81% of consumers only interview one agent. Because I think the big lie is that people think consumers want to work with the best. In theory, they do. But in practicality, watching what they actually do, they work with the most convenient.
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C
Without a doubt, right?
- [24:11]
A
They go to the one that's the easiest. That's the. Like that, just convenience. I've sold them at an open house. I googled them and saw them right there. I went to Zillow and they're the, the real estate agent that's associated with the listing on Zillow. And the consumer is too lazy to actually go investigate. Is this the right agent? But if I think to myself, did I really investigate the dentist that I'm going to go to for a cleaning in April here, they were just closest. They were closest to the office, right. And they had decent reviews, so. Reviews, right. I didn't really investigate them. You can tell by looking at my teeth. Stop looking at my teeth. Out now. I didn't really investigate them, but that's the same point. It's like Amazon is winning because of convenience, low prices, many options. And that could all be summarized inconvenience in a way, but that's why they're winning at a massive level. And I think that's what agents are missing.
- [25:01]
C
But in a sentence, what you're basically saying is that they're going to go to the agent who's on the top of their mind. So it's top of mind share. But you can't have top of mindshare without top of reminder share. People have to be reminded, okay? It's that simple. It's keeping in touch with people. And in terms of how selective the public is, the public has never been as selective as they are looking for people in other professional disciplines. You'll hear somebody getting divorced. You better get a good attorney. Somebody's in the accident. You better get a good attorney. How often do you think people say we're moving? Well, you better get a good real estate agent. Because real estate, too many people think that essentially all Realtors are the same. That's why you want to be on a front cover. That's why you want to be more prestigious. That's why you want to have something that's exclusive in terms of that. But the other way of looking at it is this. Thank God that Realtors, that consumers think that basically realtors are all the same. And that is also one of the problems that we had the lawsuit because some people thought all realtors charge the same, which was a fallacy. Okay? But if the public thinks that all Realtors are the same, you can use that as a benefit. That means that they may they. That means that they know somebody that is more skillful than me, has sold more homes than me, has a better track record than me, but they're not staying in touch. And I can take advantage of that because it's almost as though with all the skill, all that Realtors do, I think they're underpaid. I think it's next to teachers and doctors, the most important people in society of real estate agents. I've convinced myself that my whole life. But that said, with all the skill, all the training, all the education, what the industry is running is a North American wide popularity contest. Okay? You've got to be known, you've got to be in people's minds. You've got to be. Because they basically think that there's a commoditization of real estate value because they think everybody can do an open house. Even though some realtors do a 10 times better open house. They think that everybody has the mls, everybody has idx, everybody can maybe do a video and so forth and so on. That's why it's smart for people to invest into personal branding. And let me just say this about personal branding. I've been associated with a number of wonderful brands that I'm very proud that they would have me. That said, consumers pick individuals. You see agents who work for brands, XYZ Realty and they'll get listings because it's the agent, it's the personal brand. So somebody's got to say, how am I going to. How am I going to be top of mind share with my personal brand? And that's why@realtor.com I did all the metrics. The agents who made the most amount of money, they did the most branding. In fact, I created a slogan for our website where property and personal promotion meet. It's got to be both. The homeowner wants their property exposed, the agent wants both the property and themselves. And so when you can integrate, when you can integrate property information with professional information and have it done tastefully, that's, that's basically you could at the Harvard Business School they'd agree with that. If you go to ChatGPT, ask, what are the 10 most important things a real estate agent has to do to be successful? It's always at the very top. Personal branding. Personal branding. But personal branding will become even more. Because there's so much wide disrespect and mistrust for institutions these days. Institutions are under attack. Truth is under attack. Attack. It all comes down to being that real estate trusted advisor. I happen to own that URL as well.
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A
Do you really own real estate? Trusted advisor?
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C
Real estate tries great URL. I've had that for years.
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B
How many URLs do you.
- [29:15]
C
Yeah, quite a few. And I've had that one for.
- [29:17]
A
You gotta do something with it. What did Thomas Edison say? He said something like ideas without execution is a hallucination or something that's.
- [29:24]
C
Well, exactly hallucinating.
- [29:26]
A
I want to do some rapid fire because I mean you're so wealth of. Of knowledge there. But it's like the key point of personal branding or why I think personal branding is so big when I think about it, is because ultimately you're going for influence. Influence is a form of trust. Like, you're trying to influence trust with people because people buy for people they trust. And if you think about it in terms of personal brand, well, who do you trust in life? Well, we tend to trust people who teach us things. Pastors, you tend to trust. Teachers, coaches like you, authority that. But what are they doing? They're educating you. They're sharing with you knowledge that you don't have that advances your life. So if you think, how do I build a personal brand? Well, how are you educating people? Like a teacher would educate. Like a coach would educate, Like a pastor would educate. Second way, you build trust. Who do you tend to trust? You trust your friends. They might not be teaching yours. I have a lot of friends. Some of them teach me things. I guess every one of them teach me things. But some of them, I'm not. They're not the best. But the point being is, why do you trust them? Because you know them personally, you've lived a life with them. And this is probably the highest form of trust, because it's like your family. You're like the people that are really close to you because you've gotten to know them personally. So if you want to build a personal brand, you got to share your personal story, your personal life. Go ahead, you're going to say something on it.
- [30:50]
C
I don't mean to interrupt you. Good.
- [30:51]
A
No, no. And then I was just going to say the third one in my mind is we tend to trust people. I see it, I call it accolades. But people who have success that we a track record that we want, they are like, if we're in point A and they're in point B, we want to get to point B. We see that they've accomplished that, and so we look up to them for that because they' accomplish things that are impressive. So if I think about building a personal brand, when I break it down to practicality, I break it down well. How do you do that? Tangibly. Well, how do you educate people? Like a teacher? How do you get to know people personally and let them get to know you? And then how do you showcase to people your track?
- [31:29]
B
That's really well done.
- [31:30]
C
There you go. That's very well done.
- [31:33]
B
Come up with that.
- [31:34]
A
I get one every once in a while. You know what I mean?
- [31:37]
C
There's. There's another thing, another dimension that I'd like to add to for the people watching this or listening to this, and that is, I think not enough realtors think macro, they think micro. Because, like, when I first got my real estate license In Boston, it said licensed salesperson. It didn't say licensed marketing person. Yep, 40, 50 years ago, the real estate industry was all about selling. There wasn't the Internet, there wasn't video, there wasn't social media, there wasn't publications. And so a lot of the emphasis was on what I thought was like polygames. If somebody leans forward, you lean forward, mirroring behavior. If they fold their arms, you fold your arms. If they're visual, how does this look to you? If they're audio, how does it sound to you? That went on for about 50 years. But the most successful agents think macro. They think of Steve Jobs said it best. The biggest mistake most companies make is they focus on market segmentation versus desegmentation. They should look for the largest swath of commonality. IPhone would be an example. McDonald's. You look at the top Fortune 500 companies, they all deal with the macro issues. People at McDonald's. Okay, and so like Julia, again is a great example. During COVID you know what, she created the urban to suburban division because people were moving out of Manhattan into the suburbs. Now, she didn't create it by saying, oh, this is a program. If you're a D, if you're an I, if you're an S, if you're a C, if you're audio, if you're visual, that's micro. That's at the bottom of the sales funnel. You first have to be. It's not just the psychology of sales, it's the sociology of marketing. See, reminded media is a sociology of marketing. It begins with the name American. American lifestyle. The only way we have access to people is through their concerns. If you were to start an airline in America and you only had one airplane, and if you could pick any name, what name would you pick?
- [33:40]
B
American Airlines.
- [33:41]
C
American Airlines. Before COVID it had this number one level of passengers in the world. Now let's say you were going to start an airline in Canada. What would you call that?
- [33:51]
B
Canadian airline.
- [33:51]
C
Oh, Canada. How about in France?
- [33:54]
B
Air France.
- [33:55]
C
Air France. How about in, you know, your airlines, Josh? How about in England?
- [34:00]
B
UK Air?
- [34:01]
C
No, no. British Air.
- [34:03]
A
British Air.
- [34:03]
C
How about.
- [34:04]
B
That was an easy one.
- [34:05]
C
How about Hawaii?
- [34:07]
B
Hawaiian Air.
- [34:08]
C
Hawaiian Air. These are marketing geniuses. They have marketing consultants. They understand that the only way you have access to others is through their concerned. Okay, how about. So American Airlines, how did they get away with using for the name of their company the name of the country? They get away with that. They have the name of the country as the name of their company. How did you People get away with this American lifestyle because where do the homes reside where the agents are sending this to. Oh my God. You mean the homes. I see the American flags. You mean. You mean the. Why every president ends up with God bless America. Okay. And if it was.
- [34:55]
A
It really was a genius name. Josh, I have to give you.
- [34:58]
C
Let's see. But not all ages are thinking macro.
- [35:01]
A
Yeah. See, kind of makes me think we should go see if American media.
- [35:05]
C
Yes. Is taken my. At my company, my media, we call it Metro Media. That was. We didn't have an ad we had in house. Metro Media. The thing is. So here's Julie. Julie's brand. This is subconscious is associated with. Julie's brand is connected with the name of the country. It's American lifestyle. It's not Germany lifestyle. It's not Italy lifestyle. It's not island lifestyle.
- [35:30]
A
Because I haven't really thought of. You've mentioned that. I haven't really seen it that way. But when you spell it out, it's so.
- [35:38]
C
But not only that, but the people who receive this, they can't receive this from anybody else.
- [35:43]
A
Yeah.
- [35:44]
C
Only from Julie. And this cost a little bit less than a Hallmark greeting card. Yeah. See, we'll think about it. This is macro because the only way you have access to people is through their concerns and the beliefs. And by the way, the country's divided 100%. But the one thing.
- [36:01]
A
50.
- [36:01]
C
50. But no, but where it's not divided is on America.
- [36:06]
B
Yeah.
- [36:06]
C
Americans are divided, but they're not divided about America. Yeah, okay. People love the country.
- [36:12]
A
Yeah, agree.
- [36:13]
C
Okay. And. And especially people that, that have been blessed enough by God that could. They can own a home and all of the great suburbs, we in the cities. This is genius marketing. But not everybody gets it because they. They think that their personal brand has to be separate from another brand. And the reason they think that is because. Wait a minute. I don't want to build up my brand too much because there's 700. There's 700 other agents in the market for my own company brand. So I've got a this for my company brand. But that's not the case with this brand because to their sphere of influence, they're the only ones who can carry the American lifestyle brand.
- [36:58]
A
It is interesting because I was going to ask basically, like I've never. I know now through your coaching and stuff like that, I'm like you that it really is genius. We always love the name and we always would say to people, you know, it's American lifestyle, everybody loves America type Idea but really connecting the dots that yeah, everybody loves America and everybody cares about their lifestyle and you get to associate your brand with that as genius. It's awesome. But it makes me wonder because we've thought tech wise, what we're trying to move to the. Is the ability to do more niche customization. So we've thought about giving the agent the ability to change the title. Where they would essentially they could choose American lifestyle or they could call it, I don't know where Julie's out of. Right. Or like your hometown. But you could call it your hometown's lifestyle, your hometown's name. What do you think of that? You think that's a dumb idea or you think that's.
- [37:50]
C
I think you dilute it because, because you're painting on a larger canvas, but it's customized. And here's the thing. You have, you, you give, you have transferred all the power of reminded media to the agent.
- [38:02]
A
Yeah, agree.
- [38:03]
C
Where's the name? Reminder media here.
- [38:05]
A
It's not there.
- [38:05]
C
It's like it's, you know, you're hidden here. You're in the witness protection program. Okay. And so this, this at first blush looks as though Julie's the publisher.
- [38:15]
A
That's the point.
- [38:16]
C
So Julie's the publisher, but they know she's a local icon. Okay. In terms of that, I, I believe, I believe now I, I created a website called Town Advisor. Town Advisor. Because I saw people go to TripAdvisor for hotels. They go to. They go to Home Advisor. Home Improvement.
- [38:32]
A
That's another One of the URLs, ladies and gentlemen.
- [38:35]
C
Where do they go? Where do they go for decide which town in the suburbs here in Philly. Okay, I gotta ask you, but this, this, this, I'll tell you now you. I can't imagine any agent saying that this is not a great title.
- [38:48]
A
Oh no, agents love it.
- [38:49]
C
Yeah, it's just people local it even more.
- [38:52]
A
Well, local content resonates. Local content is just so hard to do at scale and it's hard for agents to do consistently. So we've been studying and trying to figure out ways to do more and more local and we're still on that path. But I just wondered what you meant or what you would think of that concept of changing the title because the brand is so powerful. American lifestyle is so powerful of a brand.
- [39:14]
C
Now see, the, the best thing you have is this look at American lifestyle like McDonald's. Okay, here's what the agents. I'm going to speak directly to the agents who are right now with your clients. The best Thing you can do is to refer your friends around the country to enroll the good producers because people, God bless them who are new, they don't have spheres of influence and they don't even have money for a Hallmark greeting card. Okay? But you do. You should be calling your friends around the country telling them to do it because it's exclusive to their spheres of influence. You make sure that the public is only dealing with the cream of the crop so the industry doesn't get weakened. Okay? Because, because they're meeting people that, that aren't accomplished and not dedicated like you are or you wouldn't be watching this. Okay? And here's the thing. And then what you do, you build up the brand equity of American lifestyle and you become the exclusive distributor for your sphere of influence. Okay? They can only get it through you with your sphere of influence. And so that's why you build up the equity in this. You help the industry only have the top agents getting listings and, and, and maybe you can work on something that they get.
- [40:24]
A
I'm liking, I'm liking that.
- [40:25]
C
That's.
- [40:25]
A
Yes, all of you.
- [40:27]
C
If I, if I had the power to help, this is how you'd all benefit. That's what they should do.
- [40:31]
A
Yeah, I love it. Well, thank you for that. Seriously. Okay, Rapid fire questions though, just because, you know, I want to pick your brain on this. Do you believe so industry wide? You know, we, let's say there's 1.5 million real estate agents. Is NAR going away in your mind, are people going to leave the industry in droves because of the where we're at market wise? Where do you see that going?
- [40:53]
C
Well, unlike some industry leaders and good friends of mine, I believe the greatest thing that's ever happened to the industry is the national association of Realtors. Okay. And I say that because without that and Amway is a great product. But we could have been Amway. Okay, Is it Amway?
- [41:12]
A
You mean the multi level market?
- [41:14]
C
Everybody out there doing nothing?
- [41:16]
A
Yeah.
- [41:17]
C
This industry is based upon cooperation and collaboration. Just because there was the attack and assault that suggested, and you could say even prove with the jury, but I don't agree with the jury that there was people conspiring on fees. In fact, I was caught up in to that and completely taken out of context.
- [41:37]
A
But you don't believe it's going away?
- [41:38]
C
Sorry, I just want to get to these other questions. It provides an valuable service of organizing the fact that it's a global market. People are moving all over the country. There has to be faith in terms of people getting paid referrals, transactions, local collaboration. Do you believe we're going to go code of ethics? I don't think it is and I hope it doesn't.
- [41:59]
A
Do you believe we're going to go from like 1.5 million real real estate agents to 700,000?
- [42:05]
C
Yes, I think there'll be a diminish of the population. And, and I think.
- [42:10]
A
Is that because of the buyers change in commission and everything that's happening there?
- [42:15]
C
I think that will, I think that will contribute to it.
- [42:18]
A
Okay.
- [42:18]
C
And I also think that Realtors and teams are getting more sophisticated and if you will, the maldistribution of productivity is even more acute because Top. Why? Because of macro. See, there's only so much one person can do individually, but now with their teams and their marketing and they're. They're going to have more consolidation.
- [42:41]
A
Yeah, it's harder for the individual agents.
- [42:44]
C
It's tougher for the people. I can't even find a magazine not.
- [42:47]
A
To be will Zillow step.
- [42:48]
C
They're not going to stay in the business. I can't afford to buy a leaf of Zillow. I can't go to a convention. I can't buy a pay for a coach.
- [42:55]
A
Do you believe Zillow will step into the real estate market in a bigger way, almost acting like a houser or a Redfin where they will have agents that show houses and you can buy houses straight online from Zillow. Do you think that's where they're.
- [43:10]
C
You know, it's always a balancing act. Okay. Because Zillow's power comes from agents and brokers is getting listings.
- [43:19]
A
Right.
- [43:19]
C
And if they ever do something that is so egregiously competitive, then that, that puts in jeopardy their source of income, of data and of listings in terms of. So they're, they've done a great job with a balancing act in terms of that. And so I, I would, I would be very, I would be very doubtful. Okay. And although as one who's only going to be another year or so in the industry, I feel very comfortable making predictions here. Yeah, yeah, I won't be around.
- [43:49]
A
I just. You're just a wealth of knowledge. I mean, you've been in it for so many years. You've had so much experience like getting your, your take on where you think things are headed. I mean, my personal opinion is I think eventually, whether it's Zillow or another company, homes will transact through portals because. But a real estate agent will help advise you through that transaction of the clicks and and the signing of documents, essentially what they're doing now. But it will be so convenient that it will allow, you know, with agents from AI and stuff like that, it will allow the companies like Zillow to essentially Capture, let's say, 5%, 10%, 20% of the market share. So it will look a lot like financial advising in the sense of you have the big wirehouses, Morgan Stanley's, the UBS's, the bank of Americas, and they own a lot of the industry within financial advising. But there still is the independent financial advisor who can start their own RIA, the LPLs of the world that allow independent financial advisors kind of do their thing. And so I think there's going to be a similar outcome for real estate where you're going to have big wirehouses like the Zillows, but you're going to also still have this massive teams who are their own, essentially the comparables RIA and these independent brokerages that allow people to do their thing. That's how I see it.
- [45:08]
C
Well, that's, that's a complicated and comprehensive landscape. I would say this to simplify it from my mind and I'll go back to something I introduced in 1990. In 1990, I introduced a concept called the real estate financial planning system. And the basis of this was as follows. What percentage of consumers at some time in their life regret not owning enough real estate? Essentially everybody.
- [45:33]
A
Yeah.
- [45:34]
C
What percentage have ever developed a real estate plan for life? Essentially none. And so the insurance industry, what they did is they had to evolve. Years ago, insurance used to sell burial insurance, then they sold death insurance, then they sold life insurance. And then when Ralph Nader came out in the 90s and said that you shouldn't buy cash value life insurance, the entire life insurance industry became eviscerated as we knew it. And they all evolved to financial planners. The real estate industry taking the first little step over the last several years. I'm a real estate trusted advisor. Okay. Is a recognition that there's not enough perceived value parenthetically within a real estate transaction. So, so the industry has been a straight commission transaction to transaction driven industry. The question will be real estate, can real estate, can the real estate industry replicate what the life insurance industry did and actually get people involved as a client for life doing real estate planning for them. And if they're in the home for 10 years, when to upgrade, how to put in a new kitchen, when to merchandise, where to buy, where to sell, where to invest, and will that be a service that they'll charge for? But at the very least, they'll establish a relationship that will prevent consumers going out into the wilderness to try to find a realtor and maybe somebody who's not as qualified. We all agree that we have to add value to the transaction. So for example, a buyer agent being able to say to their buyer clients, I'll not only help you look at properties on the market for properties off the market, everyone's heard that before, but also I'll do it, do a proposal on any home you might want to buy as to how you might be able to invest and exponentially increase the value. See, that's real value because people throw around the term value added, but are they adding any value? Okay, but you can add value if people see you as somebody who can better manage your property, increase its value. Buy at the right time, sell at the right time. And a real estate transaction is a protracted process. And ironically, one of the reasons why the real estate industry has remained so viable as ironically, is because many homes begin being overpriced. People say, well, if the homes are priced, let's price to sell. If homes were priced to sell, the industry wouldn't be as we know it, because if you sold a million dollars worth of stock right now, as a stockbroker, your commission would be about $50. How many agents would sell a million dollar property for 50 bucks? None. Why do they deserve more? Because real estate's not the same type of commodity. Because a stockbroker doesn't stage, doesn't negotiate, doesn't network, doesn't market and the price is set. But the fact that people have to negotiate so agents are compensated because they have to nurture the delusions of home sellers over a protracted period of time and cajole buys to come up. And in certain markets that takes weeks and months of, of hand holding, dealing with people, being a psychologist, let alone years of experience, of experience to know what we got to go. And the other thing is this. I think realtors, if anything, the good ones are underpaid. And I'll say this, and I think that we've done a horrible job in how we position compensation. And I'll be direct when I say this. Over the last 30 or 40 years, I have not seen one listing agreement, purchase and sales, contractor, sales contract that has ever had under the, under the category of compensation where they put the fee, contingency, fee. All I ever have seen is commission and fee. And to me it makes the industry look like the confederation of dunces. Case in point, the only reason there was class action Lawsuits that were able to go through and succeed is two words. Contingency fee. Because if there weren't contingency fees, the plaintiff's attorneys would not be. The plaintiffs would not have been able to afford. Okay. If they definitely had to pay. And so the plaintiffs were told, you only pay if there's a judgment or recovery. And everybody can accept that. People should be saying to buy. What's your fee? Whatever it is, fees are negotiable. It's this. It's a. This blank contingency fee. Do you know what I mean by a contingency fee? That means if I work with you for three months, and if you don't find the home, guess what you pay me? 0. If you find the home, but you can't agree on the terms, what do you pay me? Zero. Okay. If the seller pays the compensation to the buyer agent, guess how much you pay me? It's zero. That's why we call it a contingency fee. Now, this isn't rocket science, but the continuous. It's more of a contingency fee in real estate because the buyer controls and the seller controls the acceptance. In a plaintiff's case, the settlement, the judge of the jury decides upon it. The attorneys seem to be smarter than realtors when it comes to positioning their value proposition. And so. And then we should also. Realtors should also not be compensated, just parenthetically for the. For the thing. Seven years ago, I donated my kidney to my wife. It was hundreds of thousand dollars for that. They did it like in an hour. But the thing is this. But it wasn't for an hour is because of 20 years of experience, right?
- [51:20]
A
Exactly.
- [51:20]
C
Seven years of medical school.
- [51:21]
A
Exactly.
- [51:22]
C
We can't have people think that realtors should only be compensated.
- [51:26]
A
But you change that. I know we got to go. But you change that by upping the way. What it takes to become a real estate agent. That's how you change it. All right, Alan, tell them. Yeah, they can find you.
- [51:38]
B
Thank you so much again for joining us in person. Yeah. Where can people connect with you?
- [51:42]
C
You can connect with me. I'll even give you my cell phone. 805-338-196. You can text me.
- [51:49]
A
That's very generous.
- [51:49]
C
And then my. My email is Allen A L L A N Dalton. D A L to N Consulting mail dot com.
- [51:58]
A
Yeah.
- [51:58]
B
Awesome. Thank you. And thank you all so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and want to show your support, head on over to Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Drop us a review along with a comment we will read it here on the show. Best way to support the show is to simply share this episode with somebody that you know. If you want to get hold of me, Luke, you can email us@podcastemindermedia.com and you can follow us on social media. We are at Stay Paid podcast for this episode. I feel like I'm forgetting a part.
- [52:23]
A
But did I miss Share with a friend.
- [52:25]
B
Share with a friend. Best way to help out the episode.
- [52:27]
C
Yeah.
- [52:27]
A
Share this episode Referrals, baby. Go influence your sphere.
- [52:31]
B
Yeah. For this episode of Stay Paid, I'm Joshua Steich.
- [52:33]
A
And I'm Luke Acre. I can't wait to pick your brain more. I mean, you really are. Yeah. We haven't even talked about his AI Book. I mean, this guy is just unbelievable. I've been talking to him. We've spent a couple hours today and just I've learned so much already. And so if you guys rewind this, listen to this episode, you're gonna see just so many golden nuggets throughout. My challenge to everybody is, you know, Alan has spent his career, 40 years, trying to teach agents to not be transactional, to be relational, to not save past clients. Because you don't want to be a past agent. The question you should ask yourself is, how are you influencing your sphere? You have a sphere of influence, but how are you influencing them? And go and look at the ways you are trying to build prestige and trust and go back and ask yourself, am I educating? Am I presenting relationship content? And am I showcasing to people my accolades, my accomplishments? And I believe if you do those things, you will grow your business. Remember the difference between top producers, mediocre producers in every business. Stop producers. Take action. Take action on that today.