Habits That Transform Your Life with Noah Herrin

Summary

Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
Episode Summary: "Habits That Transform Your Life with Noah Herrin"
Release Date: April 7, 2025

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt, host Madison engages in a profound conversation with Noah Herrin, founder and pastor of Way Church in Nashville, Tennessee, and author of the transformative book "Holy Habits." Released on April 7, 2025, the episode delves deep into the power of habits in fostering spiritual growth, maintaining intimacy with Jesus, and living a life rooted in holiness.

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Guest Background and Journey (00:59 - 12:03)

Madison Pruitt Trout introduces Noah Herrin, highlighting his role at Way Church and his impactful book, "Holy Habits." Noah shares his personal journey, growing up in a pastor’s home, grappling with the authenticity of his faith, and eventually distancing himself from organized religion by the age of 15. His "come to Jesus" moment at 21 was transformative, leading him to start a Bible study that rapidly grew to 800 participants. Noah emphasizes that ministry growth wasn't based on strategy but rather on genuine relationships and divine guidance.

Noah Herrin (01:18): "An encounter with Jesus will set you free, but your habits with Jesus are what keep you free."

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The Power of Habits in Spiritual Growth (13:30 - 25:02)

Madison and Noah discuss the critical role of habits in sustaining spiritual freedom. Noah underscores that overcoming sin isn't merely about initial repentance but about continuous spiritual disciplines that deepen one's relationship with Jesus.

Madison Pruitt Trout (20:00): "But we just don't know how to get there. And so this book is going to be so helpful."

Noah elaborates on the distinction between effort and earning, citing Dallas Willard to illustrate that relationships require ongoing effort to foster intimacy, paralleling this with the necessity of habits in spiritual life.

Noah Herrin (22:03): "If you don't put any effort into a relationship, how intimate is that relationship going to be?"

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Practical Holy Habits (41:34 - 48:11)

Noah introduces one of his favorite habits, the "One Minute Prayer," designed to integrate prayer seamlessly into daily life. This method encourages believers to take 60 seconds after every scheduled event to communicate with God, fostering a continuous relationship rather than compartmentalizing prayer into isolated morning sessions.

Noah Herrin (41:34): "Instead of me praying for five minutes in the morning, now I'm praying probably for 20 minutes during the day or something like that."

Madison connects this habit to building intimacy, comparing it to maintaining a healthy marriage through consistent connection.

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Redefining Goals: From Destination to Progress (45:56 - 56:18)

The conversation shifts to goal setting, where Noah critiques the common focus on destination-oriented goals. Drawing inspiration from the book "Atomic Habits," he advocates for identity-based goals that emphasize becoming more Christ-like rather than merely achieving specific tasks.

Noah Herrin (47:20): "Instead of making the goal, I'm not gonna skip reading my Bible every day this year. It's like a way more fulfilling goal would be to go, I'm going to be so much more in love with Jesus at the end of this year."

Madison echoes this sentiment, emphasizing that true transformation stems from a desire to be with Jesus rather than from a checklist of religious obligations.

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Understanding Holiness and Its Benefits (49:38 - 58:26)

Noah defines holiness as an intimacy builder, contrasting it with legalistic or superficial practices. He shares personal anecdotes, including challenges faced while maintaining holiness amidst growing ministry responsibilities. Noah stresses that holiness is not about perfection but about a heartfelt commitment to Jesus, which naturally leads to virtuous habits.

Noah Herrin (53:04): "When the storms come, like, I'm built on the rock. Like my peace doesn't leave my hope doesn't leave my foundation is built on Jesus."

Madison reinforces the idea that holiness is integral to witnessing and transforming lives, drawing parallels with biblical teachings about building one's life on a solid foundation.

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The Role of the Holy Spirit in Building Habits (60:42 - 66:49)

Addressing the balance between personal effort and divine intervention, Noah uses the farmer analogy to illustrate that while believers must cultivate habits (plowing the field and planting seeds), the Holy Spirit is responsible for growing the harvest. He encourages listeners to show up consistently, trusting that God will cultivate spiritual growth through their dedicated habits.

Noah Herrin (61:28): "Show up consistently and let God bring the harvest in your life. Let the Holy Spirit do what only he can do."

Madison concurs, highlighting that habits create an environment for the Holy Spirit to work, reinforcing the notion that believers are called to obediently engage in spiritual disciplines while relying on divine strength.

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Conclusion and Prayer (66:11 - 70:49)

As the episode nears its end, Madison and Noah summarize the transformative power of holy habits in fostering a deep, enduring relationship with Jesus. They emphasize that no matter one's past or current struggles, it's never too late to start cultivating habits that lead to holiness and spiritual intimacy.

Noah closes with a heartfelt prayer, asking God to reach listeners who may be struggling with shame or seeking deeper intimacy, affirming that God welcomes everyone and desires to transform lives through grace.

Noah Herrin (67:42): "We know that God could do that even through a podcast."

Madison reiterates the episode's key message: habitual holiness is not about achieving perfection but about consistent, loving connection with Jesus, enabling believers to withstand life's storms and reflect His presence to the world.

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Key Takeaways

• Habits as Vehicles for Intimacy: Consistent spiritual habits cultivate a deeper relationship with Jesus, moving beyond initial repentance to sustained freedom.

• Identity-Based Goals: Setting goals that focus on becoming more Christ-like fosters meaningful growth compared to destination-oriented objectives.

• Holiness as a Heart Posture: True holiness stems from a transformed heart that seeks Jesus out of love, not obligation or fear.

• Synergy Between Effort and Grace: Personal effort in cultivating habits creates space for the Holy Spirit to work, leading to genuine spiritual transformation.

• Community and Accountability: Engaging with a supportive community enhances the ability to maintain holy habits and resist sin.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Noah Herrin (01:18): "An encounter with Jesus will set you free, but your habits with Jesus are what keep you free."

• Noah Herrin (22:03): "If you don't put any effort into a relationship, how intimate is that relationship going to be?"

• Noah Herrin (47:20): "Instead of making the goal, I'm not gonna skip reading my Bible every day this year. It's like a way more fulfilling goal would be to go, I'm going to be so much more in love with Jesus at the end of this year."

• Noah Herrin (53:04): "When the storms come, like, I'm built on the rock. Like my peace doesn't leave my hope doesn't leave my foundation is built on Jesus."

• Noah Herrin (61:28): "Show up consistently and let God bring the harvest in your life. Let the Holy Spirit do what only he can do."

• Noah Herrin (67:42): "We know that God could do that even through a podcast."

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a powerful guide for believers seeking to cultivate holy habits that lead to a transformative and enduring relationship with Jesus. Through personal stories, theological insights, and practical advice, Noah Herrin and Madison Pruitt Troutt inspire listeners to prioritize intimacy over obligation, embrace consistent spiritual disciplines, and trust in God's grace and power to sustain their journey toward holiness.

For those longing to deepen their spiritual lives and build habits that reflect Christ's love and holiness, "Holy Habits" by Noah Herrin is a must-read companion.

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Transcript

[Noah Heron]

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[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Get Beautiful Anonymous wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Noah Heron]

I think a whole generation of Christians was taught how to say no to sin, but never how to say yes to God. I just think, like, we gotta take back the theology around holiness as something that we are called to and it's not just for the pastor or the speaker. How do you really find freedom in Jesus?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

What keeps us from being able to carry out holy baptism?

[Noah Heron]

Oh man, this is. I love nerding out about this.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

What would be your advice to someone of how to start this journey of creating holy habits?

[Noah Heron]

An encounter with Jesus will set you free, but your habits with Jesus are what keep you free. I'm going to get to heaven one day and be enamored with Jesus. So like, why wait for that to happen when I could just do that now?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

What are some holy habits that just everyone listening can start implementing in their life to start growing in intimacy with Jesus?

[Noah Heron]

You will never overcome sin until you find Jesus more beautiful than the sin.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

What's up guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host, Madison Pruitt Trout, here with one of my friends, Noah Heron in the podcast studio, who lives in Nashville, Tennessee, and he is the founder and pastor of Way Church, which is actually our home church and which is crazy. It's crazy to say that now that we live in Nashville, Tennessee and we say our home church is Way Church. And he's also the author of Holy Habits, which is going to be today's conversation, and I'm really excited about it. So welcome to the podcast.

[Noah Heron]

Thanks for having me, Maddie. This is an honor.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It's so fun.

[Noah Heron]

Welcome to Nashville.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I know.

[Noah Heron]

You guys are such Nashvillians. It's crazy.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It's. It is wild. And now, like, Noah and Grant have the sweetest bromance. They're best friends. And Maddie has become one of my good friends. His wife's name is Maddie. So we got Maddie squared going on.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And so it's just been, like, so fun. We truly prayed so hard over the church that we were going to get plugged into, and there's so many churches in Nashville, so many great churches in Nashville. And, man, we just, like, felt so much peace. And as soon as we started going to Way, I mean, it was like home. We just felt so at home. And, of course, you and Grant started getting close, and we just were like, this is where we're supposed to be. And it has been the coolest thing. Grant and I say it all the time. And I'm not saying this just to flatter you, but, like, you are such an amazing leader. We are really inspired by the way that you lead and just watching. I mean, one time, Grant, I got there a little bit late, and this is such a good compliment of Way Church, but we were in overflow because it was filled up and we were in overflow, and we were sitting in there because we got there a little bit late. And Noah came in after, and you just were saying you came in after and just were telling everyone, like, hey, we want to thank you for coming to Wade Church. Thank you for sitting in overflow. Overflow. And you just were, like, affirming the room and you were saying, like, hey, I know. You know, you're having to sit in overflow. This isn't the most ideal for you, but, you know, thank you for making room. There are people that were in the main service, and multiple people in there gave their life to Jesus. And we want to thank you guys for making it possible. I mean, I literally just memorized that whole speech.

[Noah Heron]

You said it better than I did.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

No, you said it better. But I was sitting there and I looked at Grant and I was like, that was so well led. Like, you didn't have to come in there and say that. You didn't have to come in there and hang out with overflow. And you do a little bit late.

[Noah Heron]

But have the coffee. You know what I mean?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

You got the coffee. Like, your hair is not fully done. You're kind of like, sweating from running from your car, but, like, you love the Lord and you made it. Yeah. When you sit in overflow, like, you really know you love the Lord.

[Noah Heron]

Absolutely. And I think this is just a great segue of, like, hey, if you live in Nashville and you have a bigger building, we'd love to be your friend.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yes. We've been praying. We've been praying. We want a bigger building for Way Church.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And believing for it. And God's going to come through. We prayed right for this podcast.

[Noah Heron]

Amen.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So, anyways, that was just a little compliment that I wanted to give you. And your wife has also been such a gift to me in this season of Also, like, stepping into motherhood. I think I've text her multiple times, and I'm like, is this normal? Is this normal? Is my baby okay? Am I okay? Am I going to make it? And actually, my first outing with Hosanna was to Wait.

[Noah Heron]

Church, Come on.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Grant was speaking, and it was so. It was so good. I was so nervous. I was like, is Hosanna going to freak out? Is she going to cry? And again, she felt at home.

[Noah Heron]

She sat in the amen corner. I was. I was watching, you know, she did. No offense, Grant. If you're listening to this, she did sleep for part of the service. She was awake, for. I saw her eyes open at one point.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

She was like. And then to back out, she woke up at the very end. She. She made it the whole time without making a peep. And then as soon as he finished, she started screaming, and I had to step out. And I was like, wow. She just knew, like, dad speaking. You listen.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And it was so good. And I was so grateful that that was my first outing. I was like, way Church. Everyone was so kind. And, yeah, it was, like, the best place to introduce Hosanna. Like, I was like, this is your. This is your first church service at Way. Anyways, so if you're in Nashville, come hang out at Way Church. Come meet Noah and Maddie. They're the best. And we are going to be talking, today's conversation, all about holy habits. I'm very excited about it because I've actually talked before. I even read your book. I did a podcast, season one. Let's see. I don't know. It was, like, a few episodes in called how to Develop Healthy and Holy Habits.

[Noah Heron]

Oh, amazing.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And I talked all about how to build habits, because I think that's such a huge question that I get asked by so many people. Like, that struggle with discipline, self discipline. How do I Create these spiritual disciplines in my life to become all that God has called me to be. Like, I have this goal. I have this, you know, place that I want to reach and this person I want to become, but I don't really know how to get there practically. And we talked all about that. And so I. Everyone loved that episode, and they were like, can you do another episode? And recently we put on, say, True's Story, like, what was, you know, some of your favorite episodes? And they said that one. And so I was like, this is gonna be so fun to kind of do round two and talk about it. Because, y'all, this book is so good. I was reading through it, underlining things, put in exclamation marks. I looked at Noah right before this podcast, and I said, can you please make sure to say this quote, because it's so good and you guys gotta check it out. Especially if you find yourself in a season of, like, I wanna grow in deeper intimacy with the Lord. And I don't know what that looks like. Like, what are some. Some disciplines that I can cultivate in my life to get closer to Jesus and to build community and to find freedom. Like, those are things that a lot of us are saying, I want to have and I want to find and I want to build, but we just don't know how to get there. And so this book is going to be so, so helpful, and we're going to talk all about it. And actually, like, as I was thinking about the podcast this morning, because now I have very few moments to, like, now. And being a mother of a newborn, I'm like, find myself, like, feeding Hosanna. And I'm like, ah, finally a moment to think. I'm like, so I'm thinking this morning, and there were even some questions that I was like, I'm actually really excited because I'm curious to ask you about. But first, to start out, tell everyone just a little bit about you and your story, how you became a head pastor of this amazing church in Nashville. It is crazy. I mean, because you're, what, 30?

[Noah Heron]

Yeah, just turned 30.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Hey, it's that verse. Do not let anyone look down on you because you are young.

[Noah Heron]

Timothy. Timothy, speaking to me. Yeah. First of all, this is such an honor. Thank you for having me. All the things you said about Way Church means so much to me. I remember when you guys moved here and we heard you guys were coming. Someone gave us the advice. They were like, hey, never try to convince someone to be a part of Way Church, because if you have to Convince them to come. You have to convince them to stay. And we so badly wanted to be like, hey, you should come to church. You know, but we just were like, hey, like, let's just, you know, they have tons of friends in Nashville. There's tons of great churches here, like you said. And it's just been such a huge blessing, personally, to have you guys there just as our friends. But I also think it's been a huge blessing, like Grant just spoke, like, you mentioned, and just totally knocked it out of the park. Yalls ministry has already made such an impact on the church, so thank you so much. But my story is I grew up in a pastor's home. Without getting too much into it, I saw a lot of things they say that, like, being a pastor's kid is living in a glass house. It definitely was the case for me. And by the time I was in, like, eighth or ninth grade, I had just decided, like, this is not for me. And it had very little to do with Jesus and everything to do with things that I thought were Jesus but were actually just broken people who claimed to. To love Jesus. And many of them did. I just couldn't differentiate the two totally. And I had a lot of bitterness. And so I actually really ran from the Lord from about the time I was 15 until I was 21 years old.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Every PK has to go through that.

[Noah Heron]

You know, some of us it takes six years. Some of us it takes six days. But there is a.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That is church lingo for pastor's kid.

[Noah Heron]

Yes. And I remember I just reached this really low moment in college, and I actually had a roommate in college who had tried to witness to me multiple times just one of the best dudes I've ever met. And he sent me a YouTube video to watch, and it was a sermon. And I fully intended to just watch the beginning of it so that I could say that I. I watched part of it, and 36 and a half minutes later, I'm weeping and I'm repenting and basically rededicating my life to the Lord. And so that was kind of my, like, come to Jesus moment. And within about six months, I had started a Bible study. I honestly, I started it for me. I just needed accountability with other people so that I could stay in the word and practice habits. And that Bible study, God just started breathing on it. Within about a year, we had about 800 college students that were meeting for this Bible study. And so people will ask, like, how'd you get into ministry? Like, what was your strategy? And I Was like, we didn't have one. We just were like, we. I was just trying to, like, read the Bible with friends and people just kept coming. And we moved from my apartment to a lecture hall at Lee University, to a sanctuary of another church. It just was amazing. And that's kind of how ministry started. I was actually a bartender at that time, which is a wild way to get into ministry.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I was like one foot in.

[Noah Heron]

I was making margaritas, inviting people to our college ministry. It was. It was wild.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's hilarious.

[Noah Heron]

So that's how I got into ministry and then did some full time evangelism. My wife Maddie and I got married, felt like we were gonna plant a church, and we just fell in love with Nashville and we thought, let's plant in the city we love the most so that when ministry gets hard, we won't leave. And we started way church a year and a. Exactly.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Noah Heron]

It's just been the best.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It's only been a year and a half.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah, it's been a year and a half.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It's crazy. Wow.

[Noah Heron]

Crazy.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's crazy. What are, like, some of the biggest things you've learned in the last year and a half in launching a church?

[Noah Heron]

I think my biggest insecurity was our age. And so a lot of my biggest fears were just like, why would people want to be a part of this? We don't have the experience to offer that an older pastor would or. Or whatever. And I think the big takeaway from. From that insecurity, but also other areas of the church that we just were like, how's this going to happen? Is if God's grace is on it, like, God is going to build his church. And we knew, like, we had heard that preached we'd amend that before. But now that we're in it, it's like coming to church on a Sunday. The only way to describe what is happening is only God. Like, only God could be doing this. Only God could be bringing these people here. Only God could be transforming people's life. Like, one of the main guys on our safety team was addicted to cocaine a year and a half ago.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Noah Heron]

Like, and now he's leading the safety team. He's in our discipleship group. Like, just radical transformation is happening that nobody can get the credit for except for the Lord. And so, yeah, it's those who, you know, I don't want to labor in vain. And I think, like, the first year and a half has just truly shown us that, like, the Lord is building a house.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And we're so grateful it's so good. And I, I love that you spoke. I honestly feel like a lot of people listening can even relate to, you know, I have these big dreams, these big goals, these big desires, but I feel too young or I feel not qualified.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And, you know, I've talked about it on this podcast, but one of my favorite verses is that verse in, I think it's First Timothy, where it's like, do not let anyone look down on you because you were young.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And that's why I spoke to the leadership that you have and that you walk in and that you give others. And it is such a gift. I mean, I've been memorizing Romans 12 again. I like, don't have. No, that sounds way more spiritual than it is. I don't have a lot of time to have like a quiet time. I'm like, I've thrown out of the, the window, like me sitting down with a nice cup of coffee and like being in the Word for an hour. I'm like, now it's literally on my phone and I'm like, well, I'm just gonna memorize scripture.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And anyways, it's talking about how we all have different gifts and we're all part of the same body. And, you know, if your gift is teach, if your gift is leadership, and I see both of those on your life, and it's been so cool. And you're seriously one of the best communicators. I say it every Sunday, every time I leave. But not only are you this amazing teacher and communicator and leader, but the spirit of the Lord is present at Way Church and people are being transformed. And I feel it every single time that I go and just get so fed and get so filled up and encounter the Lord there, which is so beautiful. So, anyways, thank you for being such a great leader. So, okay, tell me a little bit about holy habits and what led you to write this book. And then I'd love to just dive into like some of the content and just some of the questions that I have about it.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah. First, let me say if you write a book about habits, people just naturally assume that you're like a habit machine. Like, like this has been work for me. So I wrote this book as like self therapy. My lack of habits and, and my desire to have them and really it. It actually all came from a place of heartache. So, you know, prior to us starting the church, my full time job was to travel and, and preach at events just like you and Grant do. And I Spoke at this amazing youth conference down in Sarasota, Florida. Probably honest, it was. It was probably about 5,000 high schoolers and college kids in this room. And I preached this sermon on. On freedom. And I remember I did this. I don't always do this, but I just felt like the response was supposed to be, you need to physically get out of your seat and come down here and repent of your sin. And so, like, I did this, and I. And I'm down in the altar, I'm praying with college students and high school students. And there was this one guy that, like, I. We locked eyes from across the room, and he comes sprinting at me. Like, I'm like, where's the security team? Like, I don't know what he's about to do. And just like, his. He's weeping, and it almost tackles me. And he starts telling me, I've been addicted. I've been addicted to pornography for eight years, and I've never been able to find freedom. And I know that God just set me free. And. And he is just like. Like, he can't even get it out. He's so overjoyed, weeping, but, like, this joyful weeping. It was. It was like one of those moments that really marks you as a minister of the gospel, because sometimes you preach and you're like, I don't know if.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Any of that landed at all.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah. And so it was one of those moments I remember, like, I got on the plane and I was thinking about that guy. And so I got asked to speak at the same event the next year, and I came back, and I was so excited to find him. Like, I just wanted to, like, how has it been? Like. Like, what's your life look like now? You know? Like, are you helping other people go through this? And I didn't see him before the event. I didn't see him during the event. But I'm. I'm literally on my way to my car in the parking lot, and I see him sitting on a bench, and he makes eye contact with me. And immediately I knew that he was still bound to porno. Like, there was just this, like, this completely depressed, broken face. And he looked at me, and he just got up and started walking in the other direction. I was like, not a chance, you know? So I. I take off back running towards him, and I just, like, gave him a hug. Like, that was, like, the first thing that happened. And we had this, you know, short but good, I think, conversation. But I got back on the plane, and I just was like, why is that so many people's story where we can feel like we have this mountaintop moment of. With God and then we go right back to the same sinful patterns instead of new holy patterns. And really, this book was like a journey of exploration because I. I wanted to. I wanted to know, like, how can I preach in a way where this doesn't keep happening? Wow. And basically the conclusion of the book is that an encounter with Jesus will set you free, but your habits with Jesus are what keep you free. And so that, like, really the discovery of that point, it's Is very scriptural. And the whole book is based in. In the Bible. But I really wrote the book because I wanted to help people like that guy who felt like, man, I'm down here, Jesus, just set me free. I'm never going to struggle with lust or I'm never going to struggle with. You fill the. The sin that you habitually go to in the blank. What happens if you do. Like, how do you. How do you really find freedom in Jesus? And I think ultimately a big piece of it is our habits with Jesus.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So that is so good. And what's so crazy. And I actually have not even shared this with my audience yet, but I'm working on a project.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And it's. It is the same thing that God put on my heart. Similar. Not on necessarily habits, but on this idea of, like, what do you do when you get free but you don't know how to stay free? Like, how do you stay free?

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And I love that so much because it is so true. So many people are like, I had this moment. I had this, like, you know, goosebumps. I raised my hand. I said, lord, you. I make you the Lord of my life. I believe in you. But then I go back to reality. Like, there's not the worship music. There's not the band on stage. There's not the pastor who preached this amazing message and the people around me who are all in with me. It's like, now I'm going back to my dorm room. Now I'm going back to my room. And I'm tempted. And there's the same things that tripped me up all around me. Like, what do I do with that? And how do I. Like, the Temptations didn't just die the day I said I. And I think people forget that. I don't think people realize that. I think they have that moment and they genuinely think, okay, like, this is going to be so easy. Like, I love Jesus. So we're good. Right?

[Noah Heron]

Right.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And it's like, you love Jesus, but, like, you still love sin. And so you got to really fight to kill that sin. And I, I totally agree. There. There are habits that there's spiritual disciplines and habits that you have to implement in order to continue to kill off that sin for sure. And I love the verse in Galatians 5:1 that talks about it is, it is for freedom that Christ has set us free. But then it goes on to say, do not return back to that yoke of slavery. Do not return back to that. That bondage. And I love that we're going to talk about that because it's something I'm so passionate about as I've been, like, studying on it. And what, what would you say to the person right now? Like, just as we're, you know, that's kind of like the. The heartbeat of this book. What would you say to the person right now who maybe has had that moment with Jesus? And they're like, I love you, Lord. I want to make you the Lord of my life. Yeah, but I don't know how to get rid of the sin.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah, that's so. Okay. So I think the conver conversation should probably start with, like, what we're talking about is not a salvation thing.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yes.

[Noah Heron]

So like, even the verse that you just said, which is one of my favorite verse verses in Galatians, chapter five, like, Paul, he is really. The book of Galatians is kind of like a spanking in letter format. It really is. And he's saying, like, hey, like, your relationship with Jesus started by grace. Like, stop trying to use works to be saved. Like, that's not how you're saved. Yeah. And so the same thing is true right now. Like, our habits do not save us. Our habits are what cause us and help us to grow in intimacy with Jesus.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's good.

[Noah Heron]

So, like, Dallas Willard, who's one of my favorite authors, he passed away about a decade ago, but he's written some of the most rich theological books. He has this quote where he says that effort is not the same thing as earning. And a lot of people think that, like, I accept Jesus now. I don't have to put any effort into my relationship with him. If you don't put any effort into a relationship, how intimate is that relationship going to be?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So true.

[Noah Heron]

You know, like when, when, when my Maddie and I got married, I remember she got really frustrated with me about two weeks in because I was not doing any of the laundry. Like, we're two weeks in. I didn't do a single load of Laundry. And, yeah, it was bad and migrant too. Yeah, she, like, gave me the. You know, she gave me a stern talking to, and I needed it. And so she left the house. And I was like, I am gonna do some laundry. And I did laundry that didn't even need to be done. And then not only did I do the laundry, I folded it in the way that she liked it to be folded. She follows this, like, social media girl who shows you how to fold different things. So I, like, watch the videos. I left it all on the bed because I wanted her to see it. Yeah. I didn't put it away. I wanted her to see it. When she came in to the house that day, she, like, started trying to kiss me. Like, she was so in love with me. I was like, what? You need vacuum. It's like, you want me to vacuum? Like, I'll vac. Like, what else you want me to do? You know? But, like, it just taught me in our, you know, romantic relationship that when I put forth effort, it leads to intimacy.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's good.

[Noah Heron]

And the same thing is true with our relationship with Jesus. Like, yes, you are saved by grace through your faith in Jesus Christ, but it is through your effort in spending time with God that you get a new heart. And really, when we're talking about overcoming sin, you will never overcome sin until you find Jesus more beautiful than the sin, which sounds very, like, straightforward, but it is really hard to convince your heart that Jesus is more beautiful than that sin. And so I've just found that the most effective way for me to find Jesus beautiful is to spend time with him, which really like every habit that we could talk about today. Ultimately, the purpose is not the habit. It's to fall more in love with Jesus. The habit just helps us. It's like the vehicle to do that.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So there's so many things running through my head because that was so good. And I hope you guys are really, like, taking notes and listening to what we're talking about, because what you said about you will never. How did you say that you will never overcome sin until Jesus is more.

[Noah Heron]

Beautiful than your sin.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Oh, man, that's so good. Because I. I do. I think we can get so caught up on. Don't do, don't do, don't do.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And what I love about the Scriptures is there's. There's so many moments where it's like, yeah, flee from this. Hey, flee from it. Throw it off. Run from it. Don't do this. But then it says, but pursue for sure. Flee from sexual immorality. But pursue righteousness, flee from this, but pursue. And it's like, that's it.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It's not just like, flee from all the bad, pursue all the good. And it's in that falling in love with Jesus that it makes that fleeing way more easy.

[Noah Heron]

Absolutely.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Possible.

[Noah Heron]

Absolutely.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And I love that you spoke to that, because it is so easy. And I do, I think so often we. We were taught. I think there was a generation in the church world where it was very much focused on, like, don't, don't, don't, don't.

[Noah Heron]

Get away.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah. Like, get away. Cut it off. And I. And I think that's necessary. You do have to talk about that. But at the same time, when we're only focusing on that, that's where religion is born, because we're only focused on the earning. Like, if I don't do this, then God will. And I had the same mindset. I grew up Assemblies of God. I was like, Pentecostal, but also legalistic. I don't even know if that's possible. But that's. That was my life. And it was like, okay, if I save myself for marriage, then I'm gonna have not only, like, the best sex life ever, but like, all God's gonna bless me and give me this and reward me with this. And then I realized, like, that's not how it works. And not only was. In choosing to flee from those things was I, you know, it's not about, like, getting this, like, blessing from God.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It's like God is the gift.

[Noah Heron]

Absolutely.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Like, his presence is the gift.

[Noah Heron]

Amen.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And, and, and being in his presence is what gives me the strength to continue to resist.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So I love that you spoke to that. I love that you also pointed out. And I kind of want to dive into this just a little bit more before we get practical.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

But I love that you pointed out the difference between effort and earning, because I do think so many people get that confused. And they're trying to earn God's love, they're trying to earn God's blessing, they're trying to earn God's forgiveness.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And so what would you say to the person who is stuck because they're in this striving cycle, they're in this trying to earn God's love and forgiveness, and they just can't get out of that.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah, I, I think, like, I would say, I mean, just like you mentioned, like, that's where you were. I think that's kind of a natural cycle for most believers is you give your Life to Jesus. You have this radical encounter with grace, and then you're like, at some point, is there still grace for me? And it took me to actually believe that Ephesians chapter three says that the grace of God is boundless. And that word boundless means, like, you could look for its depth and its height the rest of your life. You'd never scratch the surface of. Took me reading the book of Galatians and reminding myself, like, man, there was not a single thing that I did for God's grace when I accepted him. There's not a single thing that I could do for God's grace today. That's. You know, some people will hear that. And, like, as a license to sin, I hear that as even more of a reason to find Jesus beautiful. It's like. So I. I think, like, if you're. If you're in that place. No, you're not the first person. There's been lots of us. I just think the most productive thing that you could do is, like, quiet your soul for a second and let Jesus love you. I remember actually talk about this in the book, but I interned at this church in Seattle, Washington, back in, like, 2015, and there was this guy who would come to church in a free hug T shirt. And the problem was, like, no one wanted to hug him because he was kind of sweaty.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Oh, no.

[Noah Heron]

And I just remember one time he came up to me to give me a hug as he was walking into church, and I was, like, trying to avoid him, you know, I'm like, oh, no, here he comes. And I'm trying to walk away, and he just grabs me. He's like, six, five, like, massive, dude. He just grabs me. And I just, like, kind of went limp, you know? And he, like, shook me like a rag doll. And I just was like, let me down. And for whatever reason, like, that image has stuck in my head when it comes to my relationship with the Lord, because I think a lot of us, like, we want to please God so much, and we're just like, put me down. Let me go do what I'm supposed to be doing. And I think what we really need to learn as followers of Jesus is just to hug back. Like, I am loved. Like, Jesus didn't make a mistake dying on the cross for me. Like, he knew what he was doing. Like, he knew that I was gonna fail. And he looked that version of me in the eyes and was like, that's who I want to die for. Like, just, like, sitting in that. That's where the beauty of Christ Starts. Yeah, it's like, and I love what you said about staying away, because I think a whole generation of Christians was taught how to say no to sin, but never how to say yes to God. I even, I'm. I'm reading the Gospel of John right now because we're going to be headed in that direction at way church soon. And I'm reading John 1, and it's like the Word is, like, speaking to me so much because I think of John the Baptist, like John 1. John the Baptist is just. He's baptizing people and he's telling them to repent. And a lot of times we think about John the Baptist as this guy who just yelled at people to repent. But every time he said to repent, he always paired it with the phrase behold. It's like he's telling them, repent of your sin. And then Jesus walks up and he says, behold the Lamb of God. And so if you only focus on repenting of your sin, which matters, you'll just keep repenting of the same sin because there's not someone who's more beautiful than your sin. But if you repent and immediately behold the Lamb of God who comes to take away the sins of the world, it's like my heart is being exchanged in that moment for something that's way more powerful than strategy, willpower, self help. I'm. I'm being transformed by the grace that Jesus gave me. Does that make sense?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So beautiful. I had chills when you were saying that. It is so true. Just keeping your eyes fixed on the Lord and it talks about in Proverbs, fearing the Lord is, is what keeps us from sinning. And so having this. When you hear the word fear, the Lord, we, we think of fear in terms of like, I'm so scared.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And it's. That's not what it's saying. And it is in this, like, adoration, this love, this, but also this, like, trembling, like, you are holy, you are worthy, you are sovereign.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And it's this beautiful, like, combination of both this, like, love and I don't even know the word of just like this, like, magnitude of greatness that we can't even fathom of what we see in the Lord that keeps us from sinning. And it takes that. Beholding, it cakes, it takes that, like, keeping our eyes on Jesus in order to do that. You can't do it without it. You can't do it by your own. Like you said, you know, strength and mustering up everything you got at some point, you know, you're either. I talked about this one time when I was speaking and sharing my own story of struggling with. With different sins and sexual sin and. And pride and all these different things of, you know, if I was trying to muster it up in my own strength, like, I was either going to turn to, you know, lawlessness and become a rebel.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Or I was gonna, you know, fall into legalism and fall into religion. And so it was like it was going to be one of the two when I did it on my own. But when I behold Jesus and I allow his spirit to transform me and move through me, that was when I could have that relationship, the relationship that transformed my life. And. And we're not perfect, and we're talking about sanctification, again, not salvation, because it's in this sanctifying process that, you know, we're not going to wake up one day and just have no sin until he takes us home. But there is. There are habits that we can develop in our life that keep us in this pursuit of righteousness and especially when we have. And. And I want to jump into this, too. But when we have accountability around us, when we have community, that's how we can keep those disciplines going. Because for me, when I was alone, like, I don't know if this is your story, but I'm like, when I was alone, like, I. I hated sin. I hated falling into my sin, and I didn't want to do it. I love Jesus. I love Jesus so much. And I was like, oh, I'm the worst. I'm so sorry, Lord. I'm so sorry. And I was like, okay, I know what I need to do. I know what I need to do. And then I'd wake up and I would do the wrong thing, right? And I'm like, dang it. Like, why is this so hard? And it wasn't until, yes, I repented. Yes, I beheld. But honestly, even, like, confessing.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And then finding accountability, that I was able to create, like, consistency around it, you know, and I was able to continue to. To walk in that, like, staying free. And so what was that moment for you? Like, like, what was the moment that you. You were like, okay, I know. Like, I'm going all in with Jesus. You started leading, you know, this 800 people through a Bible study at your school. But what was the moment for you that you were able to start, like, creating these habits? What did that look like? And what would be your advice to someone of how to start this journey of creating holy habits?

[Noah Heron]

Yeah, I think in the Beginning, honestly, like, even when I was forming the habits, I don't think I, I, I think I definitely started forming the habits with the wrong motives. So, like, because the ministry was growing, I just started feeling this pressure of, like, I need to, I need to be in the Bible so I can preach.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Like, I've been there.

[Noah Heron]

They're coming. Like, I gotta tell them something. I gotta give them something. You know, it. I think the place that I should have started was what you talked about earlier. It's like, Jesus is my prize. Like, this is the goal. Like, I'm not gonna get to heaven one day and be just enamored with all the things I need to do. I'm gonna get to heaven one day and be enamored with Jesus. So, like, why wait, why, why wait for that to happen when I could just do that now? So I kind of started it out of an unhealthy place. I think when the shift happened was actually several years later when I just got to this point where I think I was. I think I was falling in love and making idols out of ministry. And I realized that the gifts God had given me became my God. So, like, there's. Everybody knows the story of Jesus multiplying the fish sticks and the Texas toast and feeding, like, thousands of people.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

People are like, wait, is that what the Bible says? He's joking.

[Noah Heron]

Everyone knows that story. But, like, what happens, like, right after that has spoken to me so many times and, and it really relates to what you're saying. But, like, these, these people that ate that meal, they run to the other side of the lake. They. So Jesus gets on a boat, he goes to the other side of the lake. They run around and they're like, hey, you fed us yesterday. Like, give us some more bread. And they didn't go to the other side of the lake because Jesus, they went to the other side of the lake because of the gifts. And I think, like, the tragedy of our human nature is that we turn the gifts that God has given us into our gods. And they're standing in front of a God who a couple months later is going to turn himself into the gift for all human. Like, that portion of Scripture convicted me so much of, like, I've got to stop pursuing habits because I think I need to go work for God and I've got to start pursuing habits because I want to be with God. Like, that is the big differentiator, I think, in, like, if you really want intimacy with Jesus, if you can fight your flesh and say, if I don't get a social media post out of my quiet time. If I don't get a, you know, a deep revelation out of my quiet time, but I get the presence of God, that's the win.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

You know, I'm so glad you said that because that is probably the number one thing I see be a struggle not only for myself, but for this generation of believers is wanting, having this obsession with purpose, having this obsession with doing for God instead of just being with God.

[Noah Heron]

God for sure.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And I love that you spoke to that because I would love for you to even share more practically how you fight that daily, because I do think that's such a big wrestle of. But I. But I want to, like, use the gifts God's given me and I want to like, walk out my purpose. Like, he put me on a plate on this planet for a reason and for such a time as this. And it's like, yes, absolutely, 100. And I'm the biggest. Like, I believe in, hey, chase your God dreams. Hey, God has put gifts on your life for a reason. There's a reason you have breath in your lungs. Absolutely. But there is nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. Jesus said to Martha and Mary, he said, Mary chose the better portion because she sat at my feet. She just wanted to be with me. While Martha was going about doing all of these things, good things, doing good things. And he's like, but she's missed it because she's missed me. And I think we can also find ourselves doing so much for God that we totally miss God. It's like we're doing all these big things and in the name of God, but most of the time they're really just benefiting ourselves and we're missing God in the midst of it. And so what would be your advice to someone who is getting caught up in that.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And who is so focused on doing for God instead of spending time with God. And how did you. How do you. Because I know it's a continual fight. Continual fight for me, for sure. How do you fight that?

[Noah Heron]

It's a daily fight. And I think sometimes I win the fight and sometimes I lose the fight. I think that if you don't have something that is totally off limits to the outside world. Right. Like, some people would call it their secret place, some people would call it their prayer closet. You know, there's lots of different word words for it, but it, it is only the Lord that's allowed to enter that place with you. I think it's gotta start with that. So for a while, like, I would do My quiet time. And then I would immediately, you know, go post, like, what God spoke to me. I don't think that, like, God was upset with that, but. But I. I've just reached this place where I'm like, I'm gonna protect something where it's just the Lord's so good. It's not for a post, it's not for a sermon. It's not for, like, I just need this place. I think that that would be, like, what I would advise someone. Yeah. Because, like, the truth is, like, God. God wants to use you. My wife and I, we have this saying that if you fall in love with the one who called you, you'll never miss your calling. And so, like, that place for us keeps us in love with the one who called us. One of my favorite scriptures also comes from First Timothy. It's chapter four, verse seven. It says, train yourself or discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness. And it's like your discipline to be in God's presence is going to make you a more effective minister of the gospel. Like. Like, I think one of the greatest compliments that anyone could ever give you is, like, you leave the room and they're like, man, like, that person's been with Jesus. You know what I mean?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Totally.

[Noah Heron]

And, like, no one says that because of what you post or because of your gifting or if you write a blog or whatever. There's like, a million things that, like, God could call you to do. People say that because they can tell that you've been with Jesus, you know? So, like, I. I guess that was a long way of saying, like, do you have something that no one else can have except for the Lord? And if you don't, that's a great place to start.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's so true. Because you can find someone who's so gifted, charismatic, and their gifting is apparent. You're like, you have a gift.

[Noah Heron]

Totally.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And every. Like, I. I've. I've even listened to certain sermons and preachers that I'm like, I am in. I think every word you said, like, every word you said was so fire and so heat. But what's crazy is I'll leave and, like, not feel necessarily closer to Jesus or, like, not having even, like, encounter. And I'm not even saying that was on them. Maybe that was on me. I don't know. But I do think that there. There is such a difference between gifting and anointing and someone just operating to kind of get those amens or to kind of get the attention or get the Likes the repost, the retweets, whatever, versus someone who is in the presence of the Lord. And whenever you're in their presence, you enter God's presence because they're carriers of God's presence. You're like, you have been with Jesus, and sometimes it's like, it's not the person on stage, it's not the per. You know, and you're just like, there's something different about you totally. Like, you have. You have a joy. You have a piece that I can't like, it's special. And you've, like, been with Jesus. And not just to be with Jesus, to get something from Jesus. Like, you've just, like, sat with him, and it's. It is the most beautiful. And I hope that you guys are being challenged by this to just sit with Jesus. Silence the noise, silence the world. Silence your own thoughts, and just sit with Jesus.

[Noah Heron]

Amen.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That, man, that was so good. I'm fired up and I'm like, I don't even know. I have so many questions that I don't even know. Okay, let's. Let's get to some practice.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So talking about habits and talking about how people can start creating. What are some of these holy habits? Yeah, you know, what are some holy habits that just everyone listening can start implementing in their life to start growing in intimacy with Jesus.

[Noah Heron]

Great. One of. One of my favorite ones is, I call it the one minute prayer in the book. And the most intimidating scripture in the Bible for me for a long time was pray without ceasing. Because I was like, how do you do that?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

How do you stay pray?

[Noah Heron]

I was like, what? Like this. We're supposed to do this, you know? And I remember one time I. I went to my secret place with a stopwatch, and I was like, I'm going to see how long I can pray. And I called down heaven. And when I looked at that stopwatch and I was done, it was like three minutes. And I was like, I don't know how to do this. So I. I started this habit, call it the one minute prayer. And it's like, if you struggle with prayer, you could try this. It's really helped me. But basically, like, after every event on my calendar during the day, I just take 60 seconds to talk to God. So, like, right before I got here, I pulled up in your driveway, and I just sat there and just talked to God for 60 seconds. I just was like, God, thank you so much that I get to have a convo with my friend Maddie. I pray you would Bless it. You know, very similar to the prayer that you prayed over. This conversation, I just had it in my car. And when this is done, I'm gonna go have a meeting, and before I walk into that meeting, I'm gonna just pray for that meeting for 60 seconds. And sometimes it's like a very specific prayer, like God use our conversation on the Stay True podcast. And other times it's like, God, I'm so grateful that it's not 40 degrees today in Nashville, Tennessee. Thank you so much. But it's just been a way to include God in the day. I used to pray every morning. Like, that was. That was how the habit started in prayer. But then I wouldn't talk to God till the next morning, you know, and so true. This has helped me a lot to, like, because, like, things happen during the day, and I. I want to know. And there's just been so many times when I've taken 60 seconds to talk to God before a conversation, and the Holy Spirit has just put a thought in my mind, or I was gonna do something one way, and I was like, maybe I'm not supposed to do that. And I've learned to realize those are not coincidences. Like, that's the Lord speaking, and you just have to give him room to speak, you know? So that's. That's one habit that's really changed my life. I would say, instead of me praying for five minutes in the morning, now I'm praying probably for 20 minutes during the day or something like that, but it's throughout the day, and it's more like a conversation than it is just me, like, spouting my prayers to the Lord so that I like to start there.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I love that. Because that's so relational, if we think about it. It's like if in our marriage, we literally only spent, like, 10 minutes with our spouse, you know, in the morning, and then it's like, bye, see you tomorrow. It's like, you wouldn't have a relationship be so awkward. Yeah, there'd be no depth. There'd be no intimacy. But what builds intimacy is staying continually connected, you know, which is why it talks about in John 15, like, abide in me. Stay connected to me. And I love that you're speaking to that. It's. It's even convicting to me because it is so easy to. To have this cute little coffee time and quiet time with the Lord. You. You fix your cup of coffee, you sit down with your Bible, you pull out your. Your journal with your cute pins, and you're like, okay, God gonna spend time with you, and then you go throughout the rest of your day, and you don't even think about God. You don't talk to God. You don't, you know, and that I've been guilty of that. I have totally fallen into that category more often than I'd like to admit. And it is convicting of man. It's. It is a. It's a continual connection. And that's what I love about praying without ceasing. Never stop praying. It talks about it so much in Scripture, like, pray continually. It talks about it again and again and again because there's so much, not only power in prayer, but intimacy and prayer. It's like that's what is keeping that relationship so intimate. So I love that habit. And in thinking about this podcast, I was thinking about the fact that so many of us, when we think about, you know, habits, we kind of think about goals and New Year's resolutions and all of those things. And I think you've talked about this, and I've heard it too, of, like, research, you know, shows us that. What is it, like, 9%, something crazy research says that 9% of us actually carry through our New Year's resolutions to the end of the year. 9%. That's insane and convicting. And I've been a part of the, you know, what is that? 91% that did not same. And it is convicting. But there's. There's. There's something to be said about that, because why is it that so often we have these really high hopes of who we want to be, who we want to become, what we want to do, but then we never can carry it through. Like, what. What keeps us from being able to.

[Noah Heron]

Carry out whole man, this is like, I love nerding out about this because I'm very much like a. Like, I love progress. Like, I can tell you and Grant are the same. Like, you like building. God's wired you that way, you know? And I think that one of the reasons why people stop building is because we buy into the lie of arrival. So, like, we think we set a goal that's based off of a destination versus off of, like, progress. Like, Paul says that Jesus is faithful to finish the process that he started. And you're talking about sanctification. And so it's like, if your goal is to arrive in Christ, meaning, like, one day I'm just. Just gonna be there and I'm not gonna struggle. Like, you're gonna just give up. But if your goal is to become like Christ, like little by little, like, I just want to be with Jesus. I just want to become like Jesus. You're gonna fall in love with the actions, not the destination. So like, there's all these studies I read a. One of the most best selling books is called Atomic Habits. And like one of the. It's a secular book on building habits. And one of the most popular chapters in there is like, you need to create goals that are based off of actions that are attached to like an identity. So like, if you want to be fit, it's not enough to say I'm gonna lose £20 this year. Like, that's just like an uninspiring goal.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Which is like always, like mine are always so generic like that.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah, well, it's like, it's hard because it's like, it's inspiring on 1-1-1, but then 3-2-15 Chick Fil A's more inspired.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Totally. You're like, Krispy Kreme is calling my name.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah, it is. So like with, with that goal, he would say a much more inspiring goal would be I'm going to be a healthy dad. Like, I like get specific with it. Like, I'm gonna be that healthy dad at 40 who is playing soccer at the park with his kids. And like that is much more inspiring. And so it's like instead of making the goal, I'm not gonna skip reading my Bible every day this year. It's like a way more fulfilling goal would be to go, I'm going to be so much more in love with Jesus at the end of this year. And a part of that, the way I'm going to do that is I'm going to read my Bible and look for Jesus in it.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Noah Heron]

You know, like, I just think like the destination fallacy is it really hurts our goals. It doesn't help.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Totally. Like flip the mindset.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Oh, so good. And I love that you were even speaking to the beginning of that, just becoming more like Jesus. Which I think is what sets apart when we're talking about habits and in your book on this too is we're not just talking about the world's way of goal setting and you know, going after, you know, all these things to build this kingdom for yourself and to build this name for yourself. But more than anything, we're saying, hey, the goal of life is to be with Jesus and look like Jesus and to one day be face to face with Jesus for the rest of the rest.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And that is, that is the goal. And so I think we can get so sometimes focused on, you know, finding our own goals and, and reaching our own goals to build all of these things for ourselves, for sure. And I want to be clear that what we're talking about is anything that we have that is good was given to us by God.

[Noah Heron]

Amen.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And it is for God, and we are doing it to one day be face to face with God, to hear the words, good job, my good and faithful servant. That is why we do what we do. And so I want to talk for a second about holiness because we've talked a lot about habits. And so what would you say is holiness and what are some of the benefits of holiness?

[Noah Heron]

Yeah, so the quote that you mentioned earlier about intimacy having to do with holiness is that sin is an intimacy killer, habits are an intimacy. Or, sorry, grace is an intimacy saver, but holiness is an intimacy builder. And so again, I always feel like I have to preface this because some people can hear these conversations and they're like, I've got to go do better. And you'll do better for a couple days and then you'll struggle and you'll beat yourself up. And it's just this cycle. I think a much better strategy for holiness is to fall in love with Jesus. Yeah, like, like if, if you could just make your focus fall more in love with Jesus, you'll naturally do what he does and say what he says, which is, which is holiness. But I think the benefits of, of holiness are not talked about enough. You know, like, I'm a, I'm a storyteller and I just always go to this story. But I, I signed up for CrossFit. This was a couple years ago.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

You didn't expect this coming.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah, I know you.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I'm like, tell me about holiness. And he's like, I know you can CrossFit.

[Noah Heron]

I think it'll make more sense. But I, I don't do it anymore. As. Yeah, so, but, but I, I signed up and when I went into CrossFit, I, I got, I went with a friend. He was like, go work out with me one time at this CrossFit gym. You'll love it. So I walk in, and when I walked in, the guy immediately started to pitch me on why I should join the gym. But he did not mention why I shouldn't. It was only why I should. So he wasn't like, you shouldn't because you're going to be fat. You shouldn't because you're going to be lazy. You shouldn't because it's going to cause health problems when you're 80. Years old. He was like, hey, if you do CrossFit, you're going to have more energy for that kid that you're about to have. If you do CrossFit, this is what you're going to look like. And he looked like Hercules. He's, you know, if. If you do cross. And he was telling me all the benefits. And I think, like, as Christians, we've gotta be louder about the benefits of holiness. So, like, this is what sin does. Sin comes, and it's like, if you choose me, this will be easy and fun right now, and it will be destructive over the long haul. What holiness is oftentimes it's choose the hard thing right now and watch the benefits over time. So, like, a most classic example, I think for young people, I know a lot of young people watch your podcast. It's like an easy thing right now would be to let me just go hook up with people. Like, that's going to bring instant pleasure. It's going to be a lot of fun. And 10 years from now, it's going to bring so much destruction to your life. A much harder option would be to go, you know what? I am going to save myself for marriage. You know what? I'm not going to text like that. You know what? I'm not going to put my body out there like that. But 10 years from now, I'm going to be able to look my spouse in the eyes and go, I saved this for you. And that is going to be a massive benefit of the holiness you chose today. So good, you know, and so, like, there's all these different areas of holiness. I think that the biggest thing that it does is, I think, like, as a minister of the gospel and whatever calling that you have it, it makes you more effective. There's an anointing that comes through holiness. But I think the benefits are this. This weekend at church, I'm preaching on the two builders, the two houses in Matthew 7. And it's like in the sunshine, both houses look the same, but when the storms come, only one house remains.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Oh, so good.

[Noah Heron]

And that to me, it sums up the benefits of holiness. It's like when the storms come, like, I'm built on the rock. Like my. My peace doesn't leave my hope, doesn't leave my. My foundation is built on Jesus. And that holiness helps me through those seasons. That. That nothing else would help me through.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's so good. And what that story is also pointing to is that. Or that passage of Scripture is pointing to in Matthew 7 is that no matter what Storms will come. Storms came to both houses.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

But it was the house that was built on the rock that lasted and that endured, and it was the house that was built on the sand that crumbled. And so, yeah. What are you building your life on? It's like, when you build your life on Jesus, you're going to be able to make it. You're going to be able to last. You're going to be able to make it to the end. And it's like we ask, you know, why. Why holiness? Why is it that big of a deal? And the reason is, is that it talks about. In first Peter, he says, be holy because I am holy. You know, and. And Peter's talking, quoting Jesus, but saying, be holy because I am holy. He is holy. So therefore we are to be holy. It says in Ephesians one that he created us in him to be holy and blameless. Like, it's not just something that we. We strive to do or strive to be. It's. It's who we are. Like, we were created for holiness. We were created to be holy. It's our identity as believers, and we do it because he is holy. And I think about how in. In heaven, you know, they just cry out day and night, holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty. That. That is the word they choose to use to worship. And so that is something that means so much to the Lord. And it says in Hebrews, without holiness, no one will see the Lord. And so why do we pursue holiness? Well, I want to see the Lord, you know, like, I want to see the lord. And Matthew 5 says, you know, blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. And so it talks about it multiple times throughout Scripture, the importance of holiness and purity. It's not just, like. I describe it like this. Like, purity is so much more than just the physical stuff. Yeah, It's. It's a posture of the heart. It's like, man, when I. I saved myself for marriage and I wasn't, and I did that to check off a box. Honestly, I wasn't. You know, I didn't have the purest motives a lot of the times. And, you know, what I realized was that, Maddie, it's not just about, like, one day being like, here you go. Here's my. Here's my body, husband. But it's also like, every single day leading up to that, I'm saying, here you go, God. Here's my body. I'm offering my body as a living sacrifice. As it talks about in. In Romans 12.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And it says, offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God. It's like, that is. That is our worship to him, is. Is giving him our life, is giving him our body and. And pursuing that holiness. And so I love that this is called Holy habits because it's not just about forming, you know, healthy habits. It's not just about becoming this, like, healthiest version of yourself. It's about pursuing holiness. And in pursuing holiness, you're becoming more like Jesus, and you're reflecting Jesus to this lost and broken world. And so not only is it something that benefits you, it. It helps those around you.

[Noah Heron]

Totally.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And habits do that. Like, when you operate in that.

[Noah Heron]

Isn't it so crazy, though? Like, everything that you just said is like, you should just. If you don't have a sermon on that, you should write one, because that would be fire. But everything you just said, like, people try to twist. Like, I just, you know, we're both on social media, and I just. I read comments on different posts about holiness.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I get ripped up all the time.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah. And it's like, they'll take that and they'll be like, well, that's what the Pharisees did. And it's like, actually, that's not like. Like, we're called to holiness. And what Jesus rebuked in the Pharisees was not that they were pursuing holiness. It's that they were practicing their holiness before others. They were using their works to judge other people's lack of works. And that's when Jesus rebukes them in. In. At the beginning of Matthew 7. And he basically says that he's going to judge them based off of their works, which is terrifying because we know that our. Our righteousness is as filthy rags before the Lord. And so, like, there's only one work that we're judged by, if you know Jesus, and it's the finished work of Christ. But that. That inspires me to be holy. It doesn't push me away from holiness. Like, there's such a. A false theology out there that's like, hey, like, Jesus Christ saved you, and a relationship's greater than religion. So, like, why would you do those things that Maddie just talked about? Why would you pursue holiness? Like, it's not up to you. It's like, I'm not doing this.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Noah Heron]

So that I can be saved. I'm doing this because this is what God's called me to. As you said, like, be holy as I'm holy. I just think, like. Like, we got to take back the theology around Holiness as something that we are called to. And it's not just for the pastor or the, the speaker. It's for all of us. Like our personal holiness to the Lord is, is the foundation of our testimony. So.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow. That's powerful. Yeah. And, and I love it because that's that verse in Matthew 5 when Jesus is saying on the Sermon on the Mount, which we just went through at Way Church, when he says, blessed are the pure in heart, for they will seek God. I love that he's heart.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

He didn't say, blessed are the pure in body. It's not about what other people are seeing on the outside. It's not about what you look like to other people. It's not about what people see. It's. It's the heart. And when the heart is transformed, when the heart is pure, when the heart is holy, that bleeds into everything else. Like you. You want to cut off sin out of your life. You want to, you want to build holy habits. It's like get your heart right with the Lord. And I've been, I've been reading in first Kings, second Kings, kind of reading about the, the Kings back in the day. And what was so crazy is there's only a few that finished well. And what. How the Lord used to describe them and what's described of them in these books of the Bible is that the ones that finished well were the ones that. It said that they loved the Lord wholeheartedly, like their heart was fully His. Their heart were fully committed to Him. And when our heart is fully committed to him and our heart is set on pleasing him and we let him purify our heart, like that bleeds into everything else that we do.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

As it talks about in Proverbs, like out of the overflow of the heart, like it's. Everything is from the heart. And so I love that you've talked about that so much of adoring him and beholding him, because that is what it is. When we get our heart set on him, that'll flow into everything else. I have one last question. And then we need to wrap up because I could do this literally all day. I'm like getting, I'm getting so fired up. I'm like, I have actually a thousand more questions. But what I would love to kind of wrap up with that you were alluding to and what you were saying is like, what. What would be the difference? I guess for someone who's, who's listening and they're like, okay, so what's my role versus the Holy Spirit's. When it comes to building holy habits, you know, what, what do I need to own and, and do? And then what is like, this is the Holy Spirit. So. Because I think so often that's a great question. You know, we're like, hey, I don't have to do anything. Like, if it's up to God, and if it's like, you know, I can only do what I can do by the Holy Spirit, then I don't really need to do anything. And I think that that is a lot of people's mindset. And so what would you say of kind of that mindset of like, to the person who thinks either that they don't need to do anything or to the person who's like, trying to do it all in their own strength?

[Noah Heron]

That's so good. Okay. The illustration that I always think of as a farmer. So a farmer doesn't grow strawberries because he sat on his couch and he's like, I hope that the strawberries grow. So, like, we're not gonna hope that we become more holy just by happenstance. We're not just gonna sit on the couch and be like, God, do what only you can do. I'm just gonna do nothing. Right? Like, we're not gonna do that. What a farmer does on the, on the other side of that, though, a farmer, they can't make the plants grow. They can just create the environment that allows for growth. So, like, in the illustration, we're the farmer, God is the Son, you know, and so, like, we're gonna, we're gonna plow the field. We're gonna, like, create everything. I'm like, trying to give you farming terminology. I know nothing about farming.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It's really good. I'm, I'm in, I'm investing.

[Noah Heron]

I think you plow the field, I think you plant seeds. And so it's like our habits are, are creating the environment for the Holy Spirit to show up.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Noah Heron]

So, like, there are mornings, like, you know, I'm a pastor, like, like it's my full time job to seek the Lord and, and to share the gospel with other people. But there are lots of mornings where I open up the Bible and I read it and it's like, okay, I know that was good for me. I, I know that I, I should be doing this, but, like, honestly, I didn't feel a whole lot. Like my emotions weren't super stirred. You know, there was no piano player behind me that was helping me. Like, I just, I read it. Okay, I'm gonna keep going. And the Lie of the enemy would be. That was pointless. No, it was just planting a seed. You know what I mean? And like, little by little, day by day, Paul talks about, you can feed the flesh or you can feed the spirit. Our habits are feeding our spirit. And over time, we'll see fruit from that. Galatians, chapter 6, verse 1. Don't go weary and doing good, for at the proper time you'll reap a harvest if you don't give up. What I love about that scripture is we have one job. It's to keep showing up. Like, the harvest is on the Lord. Our job is just to keep showing up. And so I think, like, like what I would say is, show up consistently and let God bring the harvest in your life. Let the Holy Spirit do what only he can do. There'll be some mornings when it's like, wow, I don't want to leave this moment. God is speaking to me so much. There's going to be other moments where it feels more like work, but over time, the more you fall in love with Jesus. What used to feel like a duty turns into delight. I. I, like, have seen that happen time and time again where, like, in the mornings, like, I'm not saying this to make anyone feel bad if, if you don't feel this, but, like, there used to be a time when I would wake up and I'd be like, I gotta go read my Bible. And I would just kind of feel like, let me go do this. You know, I'll get through it. Like, when I wake up now, I am so excited to go make my little pour over and open up the Bible. Like, I'm genuinely, like, this is my favorite part of my day. That didn't happen immediately. It was just showing up, letting the Holy Spirit do his thing, and me just creating an environment for him to do it.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

The habits create the environment for the Holy Spirit to show up. Yeah, you said something like that, and it was so good, which is so true. That's what spiritual disciplines and habits do. Holy habits do is you're not the Holy Spirit and you can't do it on your own and you can't do it in your own strength. But by creating those habits, you're inviting the Holy Spirit to intervene and to show up and do what you can't do for sure. And I also love that you spoke to the power of, like, we're just called to be obedient. Obedience is our job, outcome is God's. So we. We're just called to get out there and like, you Said, plant the seeds, we water, we do what we got to do. And it says in the word, like, God's the one who makes it grow. And so we're just called to get out there and do our work, not sit back and, like, God, do what you do. It's like. Like, no, you do the natural and let God do the supernatural. You. You do your job and let God do his job. And I think that was just so, so powerful. And I'm so glad that you spoke to that. I don't want this conversation to end, but this is getting long, and honestly, I think we need a part two. Like, let me know if you guys think we need a part two, because I honestly have more questions that I wanted to get to that I even wanted to ask about, like, how to build habits within the home and within, you know, the family unit. So, you know, part two later. Come on. Because I think that that is also something that is so. It's like, in singleness, you build all these, like, habits and routines, and then you get married, and you're like, where did they go? Then you have kids, and you're like, I have more. And I'm like, I don't know how to build them. And you feel like you're starting over, but you guys are doing amazing.

[Noah Heron]

You're doing amazing.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's for another conversation. But I am so grateful for this. I really am. I mean, and. And we were talking about earlier, like, you can tell when someone's been in the presence of the Lord. I can tell that you've been in the presence of the Lord. I can tell that you spend time with Jesus, how the word just flows out of you, how passionate, how convicted you are. And I'm very grateful for that. I'm grateful that we get to be friends and that we get to be a part of Way Church. And so I'm very thankful. Stay True is very thankful for you. And this podcast is better because you're on it. So thanks for coming and being a part of this. And like I said earlier, you guys need to go and check out Holy Habits. This book is going to. Gonna help you guys so much again, not to just, like, have this perfect life. You start following Jesus, life gets perfect. It's like, no, it doesn't. Like we talked about in Matthew 7, storms are still gonna come. And. And Jesus says, hey, troubles are gonna come, but take heart. I've overcome the world. Like, when you're built on me, I give you the strength that you need to stand firm. I give you what you need to hold true.

[Noah Heron]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And that's what this book is gonna help you with and. And to grow in intimacy with the Lord and. And to grow in holiness. And I also want to say, too, because we. We talked a little bit about specifically purity and saving yourself for marriage. And I also want to say that in both holiness and in habits and what we've talked about, no matter where you are and if you've royally messed up and everything we talked about has not looked like what your life has been, I just want to say you can start today.

[Noah Heron]

Absolutely.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's the beautiful part of the good news. That is the beautiful part of the good news is no matter where you're at, he welcomes you as you are, but he doesn't leave you there.

[Noah Heron]

Amen.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

When you step into his presence, his presence begins to do things that you never thought it could do. You know, he begins to transform you and change you and clean you and purify you and put gifts in you and call you higher and all these beautiful things that you can't do on your own, but don't feel disqualified or like you can't get into his presence or that you can't start this journey of holiness or in building holy habits. And in reading this book, you will know that, like, no matter where you're at, God wants to meet you there and take you places you never imagined you could go. And so I just want to say that for the person who maybe is feeling a little bit of whatever, of like, oh, that's so great for you guys, but I can't do that. That's not true. And I would love for you to just close us out in prayer and pray for maybe the person who feels that or the person who's like, I love everything you guys are saying, and I want to grow in holy habits and holiness and in my discipline so that I can get closer to Jesus.

[Noah Heron]

Absolutely. God, thank you so much for just this conversation. Thank you for Maddie and Grant. I thank you for every person that is listening to this God. I thank you that you're the God of new beginnings, that there is no past that intimidates or scares you, that you're not afraid of our mess, but you actually loved us enough to step into our mess. I'm so grateful that your grace literally knows no bounds, that you looked at us in our lowest moment and you loved us enough to die for us. So I just pray that if someone's listening right now and they're full of shame, that you would just meet them at that point and replace it with your word, says Romans 8:1. Therefore, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. So I pray right now, if there's someone who's not in Christ, that they would accept you right now, that they would call on your name, that they would just. Just repent of their sin and put their faith in you so that that would be true of their life, that there would now be no condemnation, that all of your righteousness would get to be exchanged for their sinfulness right in this very moment. We know that you could do that even through a podcast. And so, God, I pray that you would just prompt our hearts if that's the decision we need to make. I also just pray if we're still wrestling with that shame, that the. The voice of the enemy would just be quieted in our life, that we would be reminded of your truth and your word that says that we are children of God, that you would just remind us of that, that we're not our mistakes, we're not even the sin that so easily entangles us. But God, we're sons and we're daughters of yours, and that that's the place that we can operate in these habits from. We're not trying to earn that title. You've already given us that title. God, I pray even as we're pursuing these habits, as we're pursuing holiness on the days where maybe we don't do the best job of that, that I pray that that wouldn't discourage us and stop us, but God, that we would just look to you, the author, the finisher, the perfecter of our faith, that if we want to finish this race, it's going to happen the same way we started this race. And that's by your grace and by your love and power. God, we love you. Thank you so much for the Stay True podcast in Jesus name. Amen.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Amen. So good. So good. Thank you so much for coming on this podcast. And the link will be included for you guys to go and check out the book and also Noah's handle, Maddie's handle. She wasn't on here, but she's.

[Noah Heron]

Oh, she's the best spirit of this household.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I love her so much. And so she'll be included, too. But thank you guys for listening and tuning in. Let us know how this podcast impacted you if you made the decision to follow Jesus. If you have any questions, be sure to dms. We want to hear from you. We want to hear what you want to hear about next. And if you want a part 2 go ahead and start sending in some questions. But we love you guys and as always, be sure to stay you and stay true. We love you.

[Noah Heron]

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