Stay True Podcast: Episode Summary Title: Spiritual Manipulation and Discernment with Lisa Harper
Host: Madison Pruitt Trout
Guest: Lisa Harper
Release Date: August 4, 2025

Introduction

In this impactful episode of Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt, host Madison engages in a deeply meaningful conversation with renowned speaker and author Lisa Harper. The episode delves into sensitive and crucial topics such as spiritual manipulation, discernment, and healing from church-related hurts. Throughout their discussion, Madison and Lisa provide listeners with valuable insights, personal testimonies, and practical advice on navigating the complexities of faith and community.

Understanding Church Hurt and Spiritual Manipulation

The conversation opens with Madison addressing a pressing issue many believers face: being hurt by the church or Christian leaders. Lisa Harper empathetically responds, emphasizing the inherent risks in relationships:

[01:04] Lisa Harper: "Relationships, man, they are the most glorious thing, but they're risky and wounds come with relationships."

She acknowledges that while relationships can lead to pain, they are also opportunities for growth and experiencing God's love. Madison further explores the dilemma of submitting to leadership that may not align with God's teachings:

[01:10] Madison Pruitt Trout: "What do you do in a situation where you know, you are called to submit to leadership but you know, maybe they're not submitted to the leadership of God?"

Lisa advises discernment and caution, highlighting the importance of not elevating leaders above Christ:

[01:35] Lisa Harper: "Do not put leaders on a pedestal. Find Christian leaders who follow Jesus, who are shaped like Jesus."

Personal Testimonies and Healing

Madison shares her personal journey of distancing herself from the church due to hurtful experiences. Lisa responds with compassion, encouraging listeners to find safe spaces within the Christian community to grieve and heal:

[07:51] Lisa Harper: "Find a safe place to grieve that is biblical. Over half of the most often asked questions in the Bible is how much longer it's, it's, how long."

Madison reflects on the duality of her experiences—being both hurt by the church and healed by it:

[40:18] Madison Pruitt Trout: "I have heard of a lot of people who have, and I've actually had my own personal experiences with this, but have experienced, you know, church hurt and spiritual manipulation, deconstruction of the faith."

Spiritual Discernment and Maturity

A significant portion of the episode focuses on developing spiritual discernment to navigate misleading teachings and manipulative leadership. Lisa emphasizes the necessity of a personal relationship with God and the study of Scripture as foundational for discernment:

[50:22] Lisa Harper: "You have to study the life of Christ in order to discern whether something is shaped like Jesus or not."

Madison shares her experiences of feeling led by God to make unconventional decisions, such as adopting her daughter later in life, and how seeking wise counsel and remaining steadfast in faith helped her align with God's will:

[61:39] Lisa Harper: "Sometimes we call wise counsel living our lives by poll or popularity. So wise counsel is not throwing a question out on social media and getting 200 responses."

Practical Steps for Growth and Community Engagement

Madison and Lisa offer practical advice for listeners seeking to grow in their faith and discernment:

1. Engage in Community:

   • Join a local church and participate in small groups or Bible studies.
   • Build relationships with fellow believers for mutual support and accountability.

2. Study Scripture Thoughtfully:

   • Understand the historical and cultural context of Biblical texts.
   • Avoid superficial reading; immerse yourself deeply to grasp the underlying messages.

3. Seek Wise Counsel:

   • Connect with mentors and leaders who embody Christ-like qualities.
   • Utilize Christian counseling when needed to navigate personal struggles.

4. Cultivate a Personal Relationship with God:

   • Prioritize prayer and meditation on God's Word.
   • Listen for the Holy Spirit’s guidance in everyday decisions.

Notable Quotes

• Lisa Harper at [04:23]: "The Bible is a redemptive history from the very beginning."
• Madison Pruitt Trout at [09:51]: "I pray that at the end of my life that I can say I have kept the faith."
• Lisa Harper at [50:11]: "You have to study the life of Christ in order to discern whether something is shaped like Jesus or not."
• Madison Pruitt Trout at [68:16]: "Be quick to say you're sorry, be slow to take offense."

Conclusion and Final Prayer

The episode wraps up with a heartfelt prayer led by Lisa, encapsulating the themes of seeking God's truth, embracing grace, and fostering a deeper relationship with Jesus. Madison expresses gratitude for the enlightening conversation, encouraging listeners to engage with their faith authentically and remain connected to their Christian community despite past hurts.

[74:00] Lisa Harper: "Be honest in your pursuit of God and your pursuit of godly company."

[78:16] Madison Pruitt Trout: "Know that you are prayed for like she just prayed for you. And so as always, guys, be sure to stay true. We love you."

Key Takeaways

• Authentic Relationships: Embrace relationships despite their risks, as they are avenues for experiencing God's love and growth.
• Discernment: Develop spiritual maturity through consistent Bible study, prayer, and seeking wise counsel to navigate spiritual manipulation.
• Community Importance: Stay connected to a supportive Christian community to foster accountability, support, and communal growth.
• Personal Testimony: Recognize the transformative power of personal experiences and testimonies in strengthening faith and overcoming church-related hurts.

This episode serves as a beacon for those grappling with hurts within their faith communities, offering a path towards healing, discernment, and a more profound relationship with God. Madison and Lisa's candid dialogue provides both comfort and actionable steps for listeners striving to Stay True in their spiritual journeys.