← Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt
The Sin That’s Killing Us with John Elmore
01:20:36
Welcome back to the Dare to be True Series on Stay True Podcast! Today, Madi is joined by John Elmore, Teaching Pastor at Harris Creek Baptist Church and author of “Freedom Starts Today”. This conversation is all about the seriousness of sin: why...
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Sin at some level is enjoyable, pleasurable, or else no one would ever do it right? But it's a false imitation of what God's given us.
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How do we not return back to that bondage of sin and continue in the freedom that Christ offers?
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An idol will give you what you want because it's you that it wants.
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So many of us want God to, you know, save us from hell, but we don't want to be saved from our own self and from our own sin because we want to keep living in sin.
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We are not sinners who saint. We are saints who sin. And it really, really matters.
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How would you define an addiction?
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And then in a moment, everything goes dark and he is in hell and he's like, what? What happened? I didn't go to your side. I was on the fence. Satan said, the fence is mine. Desire gives birth to sin. And sin, when full grown, gives birth to death. I mean, Laura will say to me often, it's not what you said, it's how you said. You can finish the sentence.
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A
What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host, Madison Pruitt Trout, and I am in the podcast studio with one of mine and Grant's dear friends, John Elmore. So good to be with you, John Elmore. You guys, he is an incredible person, pastor, friend, husband, father, um, and he has written a book that has honestly encouraged me and my faith so much, as well as Grant. And it is called Freedom Starts Today, which we're going to be talking a little bit about it today in our conversation. But Grant is actually like leading and discipling some guys right now through your book, which is so cool. And so I'm just literally seeing it change lives, like in real time right here, right now. And so I know that this conversation is going to encourage so many people and I'm really excited to to go there. But as you guys know, we are in a the Dare to be True series because my book is coming out this fall on September 23rd, which I'm so pumped about. And so we have been starting the this series. I guess this is only episode number two. So, you know, maybe this first time joining the series this is what we do. At the start of the Dare to Be True series, we do a little game called Truth or Dare. And don't worry, it's a wholly sanctified truth or dare game.
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Okay.
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And we ask our guests to choose truth or dare. And the reason that we do this is because the heart behind my book, Dare to Be True, is I talk about we have to confront the lies that bind us, and then we have to find the truth that sets us free. But then we have to choose that freedom every day in order to stay free. And so it's not just about believing the truth, but it's faith plus action. And so it takes us not only discovering the truth, but it takes us daring to live the truth. It takes us daring to live free. And so that's why we play Truth or dare. So I'm excited. Okay. This is. We never know, you know, what our guests are gonna choose. And I may or may not have encouraged John to choose one or the other. They don't have to know that. Right? Okay. So truth or dare?
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You know, I've got a flight to catch later, and I know you and Grant, and so I'm not comfortable doing the dare. I've done enough dares in my life. I'm going truth. Let's go truth.
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That's right. And I will be honest with you. This truth is. It's pretty deep. So we're, like, diving in.
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I'm here for it.
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We're jumping in deep real fast, and this conversation is gonn really deep. But I'm so excited about it because I get so many dms of people just opening up about things that are really hard, really serious, and that they're walking through. And so life is hard. And we're going to be talking about that today in the conversation, but yes, we are. We're going there with this truth.
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Let's do it.
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Okay. John, what's something that used to have a grip on you that you have finally moved past?
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Well, I've said to you before, and I'll say it again, others go first or others may never. And so you've got to say what it was, and it allows others to share. And so alcoholism. In a word, alcoholism. I started. I mean, my first drink, I remember a sip of beer on the patio at probably four or five years old.
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A
Wow.
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Always had a fascination and curiosity with it. Started binge drinking in junior high and was dying of alcoholism. Two doctors told me, dying of alcoholism at the age of 30. So it had a grip on me, and I Loved it even as it killed me.
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Wow.
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And I'll say a lot that an idol will give you what you want because it's you that it wants. And so it's like, oh, you want peace, you want confidence, you want. Like, I'll. I'll give you that because I get you. And that's exactly what happened.
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Can you say that one more time? That one. That one took me a second to, like, that one hit. I was like, wait, that's. That's really deep. That's really good.
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B
And an idol. So anything that we worship above God that's displaced the affections of God in our heart. It could be a relationship. It could be anything. Pornography, alcohol, success, control, anything. But an idol will give you what you want because it's you that it wants.
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A
Wow.
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And as you give yourself over to that thing that you worship, you get owned by it. You come up, you become a slave to it. And here's the reality. In First Corinthians 10, not my opinion, speaking of truth, it says, I do not want you to participate at the table of idols or the cup of idols because what's behind the idol? Says an idol is nothing. Like, it's made out of wood, gold, whatever. But what's behind it is a demon.
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Yeah. Wow.
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And that demon wants you.
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Wow. So that was. That was your. Your demon you were fighting was alcohol 100? Yeah. Wow. And that's actually something we get asked a lot about that. I have actually not even done a podcast on. On alcohol, but that is. I've seen it played out in people that I care about. I've seen it played out in even people that, you know, people would follow on social media, celebrity, whoever it may be. I've seen alcohol, the spirit behind alcohol, just numb, take out, distract. Just so many people. And so I think it. This is actually going to be a really helpful conversation to have, and so I want to specifically dive into that. But our. Our overall kind of theme of conversation today, you guys, is actually going to be on the seriousness of sin, the stronghold of addiction, and how. How we can break free from the thing or the things that are breaking us. Like, what. What are the things? What is the thing that is holding you back, keeping you bound, keeping you stuck right now? Like, we have to be able to identify it in order to begin to break free from it. And so we have to be honest with ourself, and that's what we're going to be talking about today. And so grateful for your vulnerability. So grateful for your testimony because we were Praying right before this podcast. But, you know, it says in revelation that we overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony. And so we believe there is all power is in Jesus Christ. But then also it's like, let's testify to how Jesus has rescued us and saved us. And we all have a story. We all have a past. And I'm really excited to. To talk about this and. And just our culture today downplays sin and makes sin seem like it's not that big of a deal or even speaks to the advantages of sin. And I am pumped to dive into that. That conversation. But I'd first love to just get your opinion on how would you define an addiction?
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B
Yeah, I think as people talk about addiction, like, anything that you continue to go back to, despite consequences, despite regret, despite people say, like, I know better. And a lot of times you get somebody that's maybe struggling with, like, pornography, masturbation, eating disorder. And it's like, I keep going back to the thing I don't want to do, which is what Romans 7. Paul writes, yeah. He's like, why do I keep returning to this? Like a dog to its vomit, a pig to the mud. We return to it even though we know that it's hurting us. And the reason why is because it gives us some semblance of pleasure or peace or escape or value. Like, sin at some level is enjoyable, pleasurable, or else no one would ever do it.
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Right.
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But it's a false imitation of what God's given us. And so we do get addicted to it. And so. So in First Corinthians 6:12, it says, Everything's permissible. Like, is it permissible for me to have a drink? Yes. The next part it says, but not everything is beneficial. I'm like, all right, one was never enough for me. I'd say, I'd rather have none than one. Like, if we're going to drink, let's drink. Let's get drunk. Everything's permissible. Not everything's beneficial. And then the last part is, and I will not be mastered by anything. And so if something. You start to orbit around something in your life, it starts to become focused pastime. It's hurting relationships. You can start to know that this is, like, this is becoming an addiction.
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A
Wow. And how would you. How would you define sin? Or how does Scripture define sin? For. I think that's. It's such a. We talk about it all the time as Christians, right? And you go to church and you hear, like, sin is bad. Sin leads to Death. When you hear sin leads to death and you talk about this in your book, it's so profound, but it's like so much. So many of the times when we hear that, we're like, okay, but I'm not actually, like, I'm not dying. Like when I sin, it actually, sometimes it feels good. It's like, it's kind of nice. Everybody's doing it, like, what's the big deal? And so that phrase like sin leads to death as it talks about it so much in scripture. Can you get me into that a little bit more and unpack that maybe for someone who's like, yeah, I've been hearing that so much and I don't even really know what that means and why it's so intense.
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So I, I heard two things when I was a kid because I grew up going to like youth group and like my parents took me to church. I heard two things and I was like, those are lies. So one, I heard sin leads to death. I heard that from a youth pastor and I'm like, that's a scare tactic. Like, nobody's dropping dead because they looked at porn. Cuz they got high because they got drunk because they slept with their girlfriend. That's not true. You're just trying to scare us that somebody's gonna drop dead because they sinned. That's not true. No, that's not the case for anyone. Sin doesn't lead to death. That's not true. Second thing I heard was there is freedom in Christ. I'm like, there's not freedom. He keeps me from doing everything that I want to do. It's anything but freedom. Well, I started drinking at 13, binge drinking, at the age of 32. Doctors tell me I'm dying of alcoholism. It just like had a horrific explosion in a relationship, infidelity. So I like moved out. I'm sleeping on a fraternity brother's couch. I like quit going to work. I was in sales and doing well by the world's standards. And there I am, living on a couch at the age of 30, dying of alcoholism. I put a loaded 12 gauge shotgun to my head. I wanted to die, but I didn't want to cause my family the pain. I was manic, depressed, suicidal. And in that moment I was like, oh, sin leads to death. It just has a really long fuse sometimes. But I let that fuse and it led to emotional death, relational death, physical death, mental death, spiritual death. And it's about to lead to eternal death. I would have died and gone to hell. And then in that Same space. There I am, like, living on a couch, about to walk into my first AA meeting, and I remember freedom in Christ. And it all clicks. I'm like, oh, because I'm a slave to alcoholism. He is the one. He's the only. I've tried quitting. He's the only one that can free me. I didn't want freedom yet as a kid because I didn't realize I was a slave.
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Yeah.
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But there, at the age of 30, fully enslaved to alcoholism, I was like, oh, I need freedom in Christ. And Maddie, he gives it. Like, I'm 19 years sober. He set me free. And what he did for me, he will do for anyone. He's the same yesterday, today, and always. That's what he does. He lives to set us free.
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A
Yeah. Amen. Oh, praise the Lord. Yeah. I think about that verse, and you talk about this in your book, and I. I write about it in mine, the verse of Galatians 5. 1. And it talks about it is for freedom that Christ has set us free. But do not return back to that bondage of slavery, to the yoke of slave. There's probably a lot of people listening. That's like, man, I had that. That one moment with God where I experienced the freedom of Christ, but then I fell back into that sin, and then I went back into that sin, and now I don't know what to do because I had this one moment, and, you know, maybe I was addicted to porn or alcohol or vaping or eating. Whatever. Whatever it was, I was. I was a slave to that thing. But then. But then Christ set me free, but now I find myself back in it again. And then that almost create whole new level of shame, because you're like, but I've already told everybody I was free. Like, I already told everybody I was delivered.
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I'm born again. New life. Yeah.
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Yeah. And now I'm like, back in it again. How. How do we break that cycle of falling back into that sin that once enslaved us? How do we not return back to that bondage of sin and continue in the freedom that Christ offers?
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Yeah. I love the question, and it's so common. And thank you so much for speaking to this, because there's so many people that are born again, they have been saved, and then they're just eking out the spiritual existence this side of eternity. Like, well, I guess my thing is just going to be my thing. I've pled through tears for God to take it away. And I go a week, a month, and then I fall right back into It I go back to the guy, whatever it may be, gambling addiction, and here I am. And the answer is that he did give us freedom. The interesting thing in Galatians is when he says, like, is for freedom, you set you free. Don't go back to Yoke of slavery. He's talking about the law. He's like, the law has no power to sanctify you. Yeah, like, people know they shouldn't look at porn and masturbate. They know they shouldn't get drunk. I know I shouldn't vape or get high. I know I shouldn't sleep with a girl.
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Surprise. I have really exciting news. Stay True Podcast is going live. Mark your calendars for Saturday, November 8, at Rocket Town in Nashville, Tennessee. It is going to be an incredible night, filled with worship. So special guests and yes, a live recording of the Stay True podcast right in the room with you. I have been wanting to do this for so long, and I'm truly so excited to see how the Lord is going to move. This is more than just a podcast event. It is a night to gather, talk about God's truth, worship, be a part of something bigger than yourself, and dive deep into conversations that matter. I cannot wait to see so many of your faces, meet you in person, and experience this night together. So grab your friends and get your tickets with the link in my bio and join me in Nashville on November 8th for Stay True Podcast Live. I'll see you guys there.
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B
It's not a knowledge problem. It's a transformation problem. And he's like, hey, the law is not going to sanctify you. Like the Galatians thought, we'll trust in Jesus for salvation, and then our sanctification becoming like Christ, will be by following the law. He's like, you can't. That's a yoke of slavery. Then he goes on to Galatians 5:16 and gives the answer. And the answer is profound. The There's a command and a promise. The command is. So I say, Paul, he's harkening back to that. So I say, now he's going to give the antidote. Walk by the spirit. The Greek. It's present tense, ongoing. It means all day, every day. Your quiet time is good. It's just not sufficient. So walk by the Spirit all day, and then comes the promise. That's just the instruction. The instruction, command, walk with spirit. Then the promise. Promise of God. And it says, every promise finds its yes and amen in Christ Jesus. Like, this is not like, oh, he might. Yeah, it's a promise. He says, you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. So the answer is to walk with God. Now, we can get into some of the practicalities, because that sometimes can feel ethereal or like. Yeah, but how? Like, I got to go to work, and I, you know, I've got my schedule. How do I do that on a daily basis? And there's some. We can. We can talk about some really practical things, but that's the answer. Like, we. We have a dog at home. Cash Goldendoodle. And when he's with me, he'll lay right beside me. He's not going to end any trouble. He's good. When I leave the house, he'll literally chew a windowsill off of our house. It's like he goes. He comes undone. He does things he doesn't want to do. And so it is with us, like, apart from God, we're just going to go back to the things, even if we know, like, I don't want to do that. Our flesh takes us back there, but in the presence of God, walking with God, he keeps us. It's like me with my. My dog or him with his master.
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Yeah.
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It's like, all right, I'm good. I got you. What else would I want? You're going to keep me from it.
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Man, that's so good. The. The power of the Holy Spirit is what, is what gives us the ability to. To stay free. And we were talking about this before the podcast. You're giving the example of the. Of the. Of the bullet.
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Yeah.
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Can you talk about that and bring everyone into that? Because I thought that was such a profound analogy of thinking through the importance of being empowered and led by the spirit.
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Yeah. So let me start by saying, like, sin, I don't think anyone would argue is a supernatural problem. If it wasn't, we wouldn't even be having the podcast about it, because everybody just wouldn't have a problem with it. They could fix it on their own, but you can't. It's a supernatural problem. Thus, it demands a supernatural answer. And here's what. Before I get to the bullet, John owen, great theologian, 400 years ago, wrote the Mortification of Sin. I'm reading this book, and I come across this phrase that says, the negative work of the Spirit. The negative work of the Holy Spirit. And I'm like, well, that's a typo. Like, that's some kind of old archaic translation. Because nothing God, the Spirit does or ever has done could be negative. Like, he does. No bad or wrong. He's perfect. He's God, the Spirit. And here's what he was writing that we have forgotten gotten as Christians. We talk about Galatians 5, the fruit of the Spirit, the good things that he bears. But he has another job. He has many jobs. The comforter, the counselor. So he bears the fruit of the spirit. But when John Owen talks about the negative work of the Spirit, he. He says, and he kills the fruit of the flesh. So he bears the good fruit of the spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, and. And he kills the fruit of the flesh, the things that I struggle with. Which means he is the one that kills sin.
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A
Wow.
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He is the sin killer. We can't kill sin. He does. And so we bring him into the fight. And so I gave you that Civil War bullet because it's. I mean, right there on the coffee table. You held it in your hand, put it in your pocket, and that thing that used to route armies that would send men to an early death, that had them fearing for their lives, you can now hold in your hand. You're like, wow, that's really interesting. There's a little piece of history, a bullet. And right there with Grant in the room, like, I'm gonna hand your wife a bullet. And he's like, oh, thanks for giving her that. It's interesting. But I would say without gunpowder behind it, that's what made it powerful and effective, was the gunpowder. That's what gave it the power. And so I say to people, no powder, no power. We just. We. We don't have any power over sin or in our lives to bear the good or kill the bad, apart from the Holy Spirit. And so no power, no power. We're interesting at best.
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Wow. That's so interesting. And you were saying. You were talking about, too, the. The third.
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You want to hear about that?
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Yeah, I want to hear about that.
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All right, so this is crazy. So we're talking about the Civil War. There's the Union Confederate Army. And what people don't know is that in the Civil War, which killed more soldiers in our nation than any other war, in that war, the third army is the one that killed the most. And a lot of times people are like, what are you talking about? There were the Confederate and the Union and no one else. It was a Civil War. It was brother against brother, father against father. Like, that's. That's what it was. It's not true. Historians would tell you the 3rd army killed more than the others. In fact, the 3rd army was responsible for two thirds of the deaths. And in the Civil War, 660,000. Who's the 3rd Army? The 3rd army is disease and infection from wounds from the cuts of swords that were never dressed or healed. And so you think about that in a spiritual sense. We think like, oh, I'm having a hard time with this relationship. This co worker, my neighbor, my roommate, my mom, my dad, my family of origin. They're the problem. It's like, no, the problem's within. It's the third army. It is the sin within. That is, if it's not exposed in great humility, exposed, pressed, and dressed through confession of sin, repentance of sin, the balm of the Holy Spirit, it will grow an infection that will kill you much more than anything else from a physical, worldly standpoint.
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A
Man, that's so good. You were sharing that earlier. We were like, talking with Grant just on the back portion. I was like, wait, no, you have to share that on the podcast. It's so good. Okay, now I'd love to just kind of shift into the cultural lie and the lie from. From Satan that we hear today or that we feel maybe if we don't, like, actually hear it, it's that sin isn't a big deal and that sin is fun and that there's an advantage to it. Maybe it gives you instant gratification and pleasure. Maybe it can give you power, maybe it can give you followers and status. Maybe it can make you famous. Maybe it can make you successful. Whatever it may be, to compromise, to fall into sin. I'd love to dive into that for a second because I think that there are. And you actually talk about. I want to read this. You talk about this in your book, and it's a quote that you give that I thought was. Was so powerful because so often it says this in the quote, but when we think about God rescuing us, we're thinking about him rescuing us from. From hell.
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Yes.
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A
And this quote is. Is addressing something a little bit different. And this quote says, the nature of Christ's salvation is woefully misrepresented by the present day evangelist. He announces a savior from hell rather than a savior from sin. And that is why so many are fatally deceived. For there are multitudes who wish to escape the lake of fire, who have no desire to be delivered from their own carnal. I don't even know if I'm saying this right. Carnality and worldliness. And I'm like, that is so powerful because so many of us want God to, you know, save us from hell, but we don't want to be Saved from our own self and from our own sin because we want to keep living in sin. But we also, we have this, like, relationship with God and this relationship with sin. But we wonder why we're not satisfied and content in either one. Like, we're not fully satisfied in our sin because we still kind of want God. But then we're not satisfied with God because we're still in a relationship with sin. And we can find ourselves in this, like, lukewarm space where we have a relationship with both. I'd love for you to. To talk about that a little bit more of just, like, the seriousness of sin, why it's so important for God to rescue us and save us from our sin. And, and I'm asking lots of questions, but even tying that into, like, well, let's just start there because I was like, if I asked another question, I don't want to go too far.
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B
Good. Can I tell you a little story?
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A
Yeah, please.
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B
So man has a vision. He sees God on one side, green pastures. He sees pleasures of sin on the other side. There's a fence in between. God says, like, stay with me. This is good. The full, abundant life. Satan says, no, come to my side. I'll give you all these pleasures, everything you desire. The success, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life. Like, I'll give you everything. And he's like, you know what? I'm going to have both. And so he sits on the fence. He's like, I'm going to enjoy God's presence and I'm going to enjoy the pleasure of sin. And then in a moment, everything goes dark and he is in hell. And he's like, what happened? I didn't go to your side. I was on the fence. And Satan said, the fence is mine.
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A
Wow.
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B
And it is the life of compromise. So Romans 6 says, you're no longer slaves to sin, you're slaves to righteousness. It says in First Corinthians 5, A little leaven leavens the whole lump. It's likening sin to. To yeast that spreads through the bread and goes through it all. That's a living organism that spreads. There is no, there's no permissible amount of sin. It doesn't stay self contained. I thought it did. I literally was like, I'm going to have some fun in college, then I'll come back to God. Then I'll. Then I'll get straight, then I'll settle down, then I'll end my career, whatever. Like, you can't do that with sin. And it, it grows gives birth and it results in death. That's what James writes.
- [25:38]
A
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B
It's here's the progression of sin. You desire something and then you entertain it. I'm not going to give myself over to it. I'm just going to entertain. I'm going to try it once. Well, when you try it once, twice, then you grow an appetite for it. Once you grow an appetite for it, you're trapped. And when you're trapped in sin, then you're in this hopeless state of like, now I'm, now I'm addicted. I become a sex addict, a relationship addict. I'm a codependent. I like. I'm hopeless in this state, even though I have Jesus. So that is the progression of sin. Nobody stops at desiring, entertaining, growing an appetite. Well, you know what that spells is death. That's D, E, A, T, H, which is what James says. Desire gives birth to sin and sin when full grown. Like there, there's no stopping it.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So Proverbs 28:13. It says if you conceal your sin, you will not prosper. So you hide it. You're not going to advance in life. Like it's just going to be this. It's an anchor. It's a. It's a pit. It says, but whoever confesses and renounces will find mercy. So there's confession and repentance of sin. So I would just say, like, for those who are, like, it's enjoyable, it's pleasurable, It's. It's just once. It's only on the weekends. It's everything. But it's like, it will kill you. I mean, scripture says it let my life be a testimony to it. I mean, I had a gun to my head and was dying of alcoholism. It just. Like I've heard it said this way. You know, oftentimes we think when we sin, we're breaking God's law. Or the reality is, you didn't break God's law. God's law broke you. Like, we don't break God's law. God's law is unbreakable. But. But when we test God's law and be like, well, maybe I can just toy with sin. We're the ones that end up there in the brokenness.
- [28:45]
A
Yes, so true. And I love that you're speaking to. You know, sin may start small, but it doesn't stay small. Like, it will continue to grow over time if undealt with, not confronted, if not exposed and removed and confessed and repented from. And I've seen that in my own life with addictions I've had in my past, that I've opened up very much with or about on this podcast. And it does. It continues to spiral. And it starts exactly with what you're saying. It starts with an idea. Starts with this. This idea. Then it leads to this desire, and you're like, oh, all of a sudden, now I have this, like, desire. And then it just. It keeps going from there. And then all of a sudden, now you feel like, oh, I'm in too deep. Like, it's got me now. Like, I thought, like, at first it was just fun, but now, like, it's got me, and now I don't know if I can get out. And it creates that, like, hopelessness. It creates that, like, whether. And it's, you know, an addiction for approval. Whether it's an addiction to. To. To alcohol, to porn, to masturbation, to. To overeating under eating. Like, whatever it may be that, like, we. We all have this. There's such an easy tendency for us to fall into an addiction, because it doesn't start as an addiction. It starts with one sip. It starts with one pill. It look. It starts with one website click. And I think that's where we can so Deceive our own selves where we're like, but it's not that big of a deal. It's just this one thing. Or I'm doing this and this is the lesser of evil. Like, I'm doing this, but I'm not doing this. And we like justify our own sin. You know, it's like, oh, I'm, you know, maybe I'm reading a steamy romance novel and I'm. I'm thinking lustful thoughts, but I'm not watching porn. Or I'm not, you know, having sex with this person. Or maybe I'm, you know, having sex with my boyfriend, but I'm not hooking up with a bunch of random people. Or, you know, it's like, we can always find the next thing to justify. And that's where it just, it can get so dangerous. But then we can finally find ourselves at a point where we're like, now I feel hopeless. Now I feel like I can't get free from this.
- [30:34]
B
Totally. Can I share something on that? Because I think there's, it's a, it's a two sided coin. There's one like, what is it doing to us? And then the other is like, what were we created for? And so I think a lot of people are like, well, but it's not leading to death and therefore it is okay, and. Or that they'll minimize, justify whatever. I mean, I know I always did. So I would say to people, alcohol was not my problem. Alcohol was my solution. It's like, it's what I went to for peace, for pleasure, for fun, for celebration, for sadness, for depression, for loneliness, for anger. It wasn't my problem, it was my solution. I needed a better. A better solution to my problem. I needed a better piece. It was life taking. It was fleeting, it was poisonous and it was ensnaring. I needed a greater peace. I needed that affection, that idol to be displaced by a greater affection. And it's. It's God. It's like I was made for him, by Him. And I'm gonna try in vain to find anything this world will offer me. It will never satisfy me until I'm satisfied in Him. And so that longing was actually just a misguided attempt for God. I was like grasping for peace and I found some semblance of it and alcohol. But really what I was longing for was God. And once I found the peace of Christ, dude, alcohol like dropped. I was like, oh, I don't, I don't need to escape anymore. I'm not insecure anymore. I Don't need to be confident around women anymore. Like, I'm good. Yeah, I can sleep at night without having to be passed out because of a clear conscience. And like, rightly with God. And so we're made by him and for him until we, until we live in him, we're just gonna like, keep searching in vain.
- [32:27]
A
So true. So true. And that's why it, it compares Jesus to living water and the bread of life. Because we have an appetite. We were made with an appetite, we have a hunger. We were made to hunger, but we were made to be filled with the right thing. And we try to fill it with all these things that just leave us more hungry and that leave us more empty and that leave us more thirsty. And it's like, you know, you hear that phrase, like, you're so thirsty. It's like, well, yeah, we, we actually all are so thirsty. But he's the only one that can fully satisfy us. And that's why it talks about in Matthew 5, 6, those who hunger and thirst for righteousness will be filled. We are going to hunger and thirst for something, but we're only going to feel filled and satisfied when it's the righteousness of God, when it's the peace of God, when it's the love of God, and, and, and just the person of God.
- [33:13]
B
Augustine said we will be restless until we find our rest in Him. And I'll tell people when they're like, trying to get free, I'll say only the full, resist the pull. So if you're full, if you're filled up on God, you can say no to, like, like, if I've, if I've already had something to drink or whatever, I'm like, I don't want that sugary coffee, whatever you're drinking there. Like, I don't want to. Like, I'm good.
- [33:37]
A
Yeah.
- [33:38]
B
But if I'm not, if I have, if I have not filled or satiated, satisfied myself on God, then I'm going to be pulled by anything because my, my flesh is going to be craving all this stuff. But if I'm filled up on God, filled up on the Spirit, it's like, then I'm like, no, I'm satisfied. Like, I don't, I don't need it, want it.
- [33:56]
A
Yeah. That's so good. You're always, you're always feeding on something. So what are you, what are you feeding yourself? That's so good. I love that. I, I bet there's some people listening who are even wondering the question whether they're asking this or Feeling this of, how do I know what I'm doing is a sin? Like, how do I know if I'm sinning? And I think, like, I get asked that, that question some, and, you know, in my DMs or from, you know, some high schoolers that I'm discipling, and it's like, okay, is this a sin or not? You know, is. Is this crossing the line? Is this okay? What would you say to the person who's asking, how do I know if I'm sinning? If I. If what I'm doing is a sin? And what is sin? Like, how would you describe that? And how would you encourage that person?
- [34:43]
B
I mean, a lot of times if you're asking the question, you prob. Have your answer. People will say, like, well, how far can I go if my girlfriend, boyfriend's like, you probably. You probably have already answered that if you're asking the question. Yeah, it's too far. Your motives are off. We tell our kids anything you think, say or do that is misaligned with the will or word of God. And so you can hold. You know, James says the word of God is like a mirror, meaning you can look into it and see, like, oh, that's. I've got spinach in my teeth. Like that. That part of my life is out of order with the word of God. The law of God I described, like a. Like a chalk line on a football field. A chalk line on a football field just shows you when you're in or out of bounds. It has no ability to keep the linebacker in bounds. It just shows them like, oh, you've gone out of bounds. So it's. It's an indicator to show us, though it has no power to sanctify us or get us back to us. So the word of God can show you when you're out of bounds of the will of God, the people of God. I mean, we're. We're able to share as brothers and sisters in Christ. You know, if I were to share a harsh word or something or whatever it may be. I mean, I'm sure you and Grant, it's like, marriage is incredibly sanctifying because you're living together and you're like, yeah, that's not right. Like, you're. I mean, Laura will say to me often, it's not what you said, it's how you said it. You can finish the sentence. Yep. And in my mind, I'm like, well, it's right, though. She's like, no, it wasn't loving. And that's that's a different thing. But I'll say, like, truth without love, you're a nuisance. Love without truth, you're negligent. And so that's sin. It is even in my tone. So people of God can help you. The word of God can help you. And the spirit of God, who you're talking about earlier, you know, as he gives us the answer in Galatians 5, the spirit of God, it says, jesus said, the spirit will come and he will convict the world of sin, guilt, and righteousness. Meaning we know our spirit bears conscience. Like, this is wrong. I mean, we've. You know, you wake up the morning after and you're walking out of an apartment that's not yours, or the hangover, the regret, the remorse. People say, I have no regrets. I'm like, that's crazy. I regret every sin I've ever committed. Like, that's what an audacious statement of pride to have no regret. I regret every sin I've ever committed. But he convicts us of sin, convicts us of guilt. It's not just that it's sin. We're guilty before God and then of righteousness, meaning there is a righteous standard and we have not met it, which means, oh, God, I need you like Jesus. I need your forgiveness and spirit. I need your sanctification. And I think we stay in this place, stuck in our sin, even when we realize we have sin. We're like, well, as you said, I'm forgiven. I won't go to hell when I die. And I guess my thing is just going to be my thing. And the Spirit's like, no, I want to free you. I want to sanctify you. I want to shape you into the image of Christ, man.
- [37:50]
A
So good, because I say in my book and on this podcast all the time that there are a lot of forgiven Christians, but not a lot of free Christians.
- [37:57]
B
Yes.
- [37:58]
A
And so there's a lot of us that are walking around with weights and sins that we're not meant to carry.
- [38:04]
B
Yes.
- [38:04]
A
And Hebrews 12 tells us, throw, go off the weight and the sin that entangles and run the race that I've set before you with your eyes fixed on Jesus. And. And so that shows us, like, we live in a world that's constantly trying to throw on us weights and sins, and it's very easily entangling. Yes. And so we have to intentionally throw it off in order to run the race that he has for us. And. And so there is a responsibility now. We can't set ourselves free. We can't even keep ourselves free because we've been, you know, like we've talked about. It's the blood of Jesus that sets us free and it's, it's a spirit that keeps us free. But there's still a role and responsibility on our end of choosing to walk by the spirit, of choosing to stay in relationship with God and choosing to stay in the word of God. You know, it talks about in the Psalms, like I think it's Psalm 51, but I could be so off. But it talks about in the Psalms that I think it's David that's saying, I've hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you. Like we have to put his word on our heart. We have to have it, you know, so in our brain, so in our hearts in order to not choose sin. Like that's so important to be in the word of God and to understand. Like you're even talking about the law of God. That doesn't save us, but it does show us the will of God and the way that honors God. And I think that that's such an important thing for us to address. We were talking about this too earlier and I think this is really, really good because this is a huge thing that I think a lot of people deal with. When your head hits the pillow at night, it's not always easy to quiet your mind between your to do list, tomorrow's schedule, or just the busyness of life. That's why the sheets you sleep on matter so much. Bolen Branch creates bedding that helps you truly unwind. Their signature sheets are crafted from the finest 100% organic cotton, completely toxin free and ethically made by artisans who are paid fair wages. When I climb in these sheets, I can totally feel the difference. The first time I got into bed with these sheets, I literally noticed how soft they felt. It's like your whole body can finally relax. What surprised me is how they actually get softer after every wash. I didn't even know sheets could do that. These sheets come with a 30 night worry free guarantee so you can try them out and see how much better your mornings feel when your nights are truly restful. Feel the difference an extraordinary night's sleep can make with bowl and branch. Get 15% off plus free shipping on your first set of sheets@bowlandbranch.com staytrue that's bowl and branch B O L L a n d branch.com stay true to save 15% and unlock free shipping exclusions apply. So for a lot of people I think they use the grace of God as an excuse to sin. God's grace covers it. God forgives me. God loves me. So it doesn't really matter if I sin because God's grace, there's grace. I'll ask for forgiveness later. I'm gonna do this tonight because God will forgive me tomorrow. A lot of people have that viewpoint. I was reading this morning in Titus 2:11, 13, and it was saying how the grace of God teaches us to say no to ungodliness. And so the grace of God is not an excuse to sin. It actually is the very thing that keeps us from sinning. If we have a full revelation of the grace of God, then we will have an understanding that it's actually by God's grace and his grace alone that we can resist and refuse to be mastered by sin. Yes, and we were talking about that because so many people have bought the lie from the enemy, that God's God's grace is just an excuse and that we can use it as an excuse to sin. How do we resist that temptation to believe that lie from the enemy? And what encouragement would you give to the person who has been using God's grace as an excuse to sin?
- [41:52]
B
Yeah. So good. Maddie, I love what you said first, where you're like, there's a bunch of people that are forgiven and they're not free. And that's the reality. But it is not. It doesn't have to be the end of it. And God's given us so many promises that are available to everyone through faith. And so it's huge to that end, I think that John 17:17, Sanctify them by truth. Your word is truth. And yet you see these people that are like, well, I'm just going to live. We've over indexed. Let me say it this way. We've taken out of balance. We've over indexed. God is full of grace and mercy, and he is. He is gracious to the Nth. He is merciful to the Nth, like full perfection in those qualities of God to the neglect of others, that he is also just to the nth. And he disciplines those whom he loves as a Father. And ultimately, and I think this is the fount from where, where every other attribute of God flows. He's holy. So you have an Isaiah, holy, holy, holy as the seraphim, the burning ones, because they're in the presence of God, around God. In revelation, it's repeated the refrain, holy, holy, holy. When the Spirit was to have an attribute or adjective with his name, it wasn't the loving spirit, it wasn't the comforting spirit, though those are things he does. It is the holy, he is the Holy Spirit. And I think we neglect that. Peter writes and he says, God says, be holy as I am holy. And so there is a call upon our life for holiness. And it's not because God wants to keep us from fun. It's not because he wants us to be stale or just like drab. Like that is the full, abundant life. He's the designer of it. He's the author of life. And so as we live according to his word, with His Spirit, we're going to have fullness of life that is not found in all those other things. And so I mean, here's what I would say. You said, what would you say to the person who's over indexed or living in that abusing grace? I would say, if you want to be forgiven, confess your sins to Jesus. That's first John 1:9. If you want to be free, if you want to be healed, Scripture says, confess to each other in James 5:16, confess your sins to one another and pray for each other. Not so that you may be shamed or shunned or embarrassed, so you may be healed. So you want to be forgiven, confess to Jesus. He's faithful and just to forgive us of our sins, cleanse us from all unrighteousness. But if you want to be healed, God gives us a different approach. He says that comes through confession. And so for the person that's like, man, I'm just kind of like living in this, like I'm riding the fence of sin and grace, I don't want to turn from it. I would say like confess that to another person. Like let another brother or sister, I would recommend same gender, confess that to them, let them pray for you. Because God promises, promises healing from it.
- [45:06]
A
Yeah. So good. And the, and the cool thing is is when you find those godly friends that you confess to and they pray for you and you experience that healing and that freedom, they then get to now take on the role as an accountability. And so then that helps you resist sin. Like that helps you resist sin because you confess it, you experience healing, but you don't just like use that person as a, like know I'm going to keep coming back to you, like just like, like almost like abusing them as.
- [45:37]
B
A, it's like confession without repentance.
- [45:38]
A
Yeah, it's like you got to follow that with, I'm going to actually turn from my sin. I'm going to turn to God and I need you to help me. Like, I need you to hold me accountable in that. Not to say that we're never going to fall back into it again, but that that person is. Is so crucial, those people are so crucial in order to keep us, that godly community, to keep us running after Jesus. And I love that you pointed that out. I, I'd love to ask the question too, and I just kind of hinted at this, but the difference between falling into sin and practicing sin, living in habitual sin. Let's talk about that for a second. Because I. I think that for some people, there's not a full understanding that there's a difference. And it's like, oh, we're all sinners. You know, like, I'm. I'm a sinner. Like, that's just the reality. I'm a sinner. He's the Savior. Like, I'm. Well, if I'm sinner, then I'm gonna sin. Like, that's what sinners do.
- [46:32]
B
That's your identity.
- [46:32]
A
Yeah. And so what would you say to the person that is maybe confused on the difference between falling into sin and choosing to live and practice sin?
- [46:43]
B
Yeah, I tell people that we are not sinners who saint. We are saints who sin. And it really, really matters. The word saint is hagios. It's holy ones. Paul wrote that to the Corinthian Church. He called them saints. And yet at the same time, in First Corinthians 6, he says, do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Neither the male prostitutes, homosexual offenders, thieves, greedy drunkards, swindlers, slanderers. He gives this. It's not exhaustive, but he gives a wide swath of sin. He says, they won't inherit the kingdom of God. He says, but such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified. And so there's this. There's this reality that we have to live in, that we. If you've trusted in Jesus, you're not a sinner. You sin, but you're not a sinner. Your identity has completely changed. You're now a holy one of God. You're a saint who sins. And so the difference, you know, Proverbs says the righteous fall seven times and rises again. So there's a difference between sinning and having. Giving yourself over to a sin. There is a. Oh, I used a harsh tone with Laura versus no, I'm a harsh tone person. And I scream at my kids and I scream at Laura, and that's what I do. And I'm not grieved by it. That's how I roll. You know, I just. That's. That's who I am.
- [48:14]
A
That's my personality.
- [48:15]
B
Yeah. When you have this, like, acceptable either amount or position with sin, you're like, that's just what I. You know, I like girls, so I look at porn. It's like you've given yourself over to it and it's got a death grip on you. So there's a difference between falling and remaining. And being like, this is just part of who I am.
- [48:35]
A
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- [49:48]
B
Let me ask you this. When you got married, did it change your life when you said to Grant, with this ring, I thee wed. Like I do. I covenant myself to you. I mean, did that have implications for you?
- [50:00]
A
Oh, absolutely. Changed everything.
- [50:01]
B
Yeah. Like, I mean, changed your name, changed your address, changed who you associate with. When you said yes to Grant, you said no to every other male walking this Earth. All 8 billion people became an instant no with a yes to him. And so it is like that was an identity shift and a reality and a covenant. And so it is with all of us. Like when we. It's the new covenant. Jesus said when he last supper, he said, this is the new covenant poured out in my blood. We are now in covenant. We are the. He's the bridegroom, we're the bride of Christ, the church. We're in covenant with him. It has changed our identity. People say, well, I'm. I'm. I'm a sinner. And I'm like, you're not. If you're in Jesus, you are a saint. Sinner is not your identity. It's not your occupation. But if, but if you think it is, then you're going to live that out. If that's on the business card of your life. John Elmore, Sinner, well, guess what I'm probably going to do. But if it says John Elmore, Saint, Holy One, I'm like, that's. I'm. You know. 2nd Corinthians 5. The old is gone, the new has come. Yeah, all this is from Christ. It's like the slave to sin of alcoholism and women and status and money and porn and weed and pills and cutting and suicidal ideation. He's dead and gone. I have a self portrait in my office that I just, like, sketched that has me crucified on a cross, which is kind of dark. You know, at first glance, people like, oh, got some nice art. It's like business guy in a suit with a briefcase and money and a fifth of scotch in one hand. And I'm crucified in a suit. A little pen, sketch, and then on the other side, you see like a crown of thorns. And people like, what is that? And I'm like, that's my reminder that the old me is dead. He was crucified with Christ. It's no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. Augustine, that same person we talked about earlier, his mistress was walking down the street. He passed her by from his old life. He had trusted in Christ, passed her by on the street. She called to him, chokes me up. Augustine. Augustine. He kept walking. He's like, I'm not stopping. Augustine. Tis I. His response was, yes, but it is not I. He's like, who you think you just saw. He's dead and gone. I'm new. I'm not better. I'm new.
- [52:36]
A
Wow, that's so powerful. And it's such a good reminder that the power of God, it does not take bad people, make them good. It takes dead people and makes them alive. We literally go from death to life.
- [52:54]
B
Life, yes.
- [52:55]
A
And we can experience that right here on earth. Like that's the goodness of God that we don't have to just, we're going to experience it in fullness and in eternity for those who believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus. But we also here on earth get to experience the freedom that Christ offers. And we don't have to just sit around and say, well one, one day. It's like, no, if you. Today, today, freedom starts today. That's what you wrote about. And that's the hope that we can. And now there's going to be a day when we're in heaven and there are no, there's no more tears, there's no more sadness, there's no more pain, there's no more suffering, there's no more temptation, there's no more. And praise God for that. I can't wait for that day. And we can have hope here right now. And we can choose to experience freedom through Jesus Christ and by the power of his spirit, we can choose to live that out today. And I would love to just get practical for a second. And how can we, for the person that's like, all of that sounds amazing, John. I want that. I want the freedom. I wanna break free from the thing that's breaking me. I want that for my life. And they're like, bud, how truly. And here's what I love about this book and really I'm gonna include this link for you guys to be able to go and buy it. Because here's what I love about this book so much that I've not honestly seen done. Maybe other people have done it. I've not seen this done in other books. This is what I love about this book is that it's this like 24 hour focus rule and at the end of each chapter you, you provide this opportunity to sign it. And it's just like this commitment of today I am committing to, to pursue the spirit of God and the things of God today. Like I, I'm not worried about tomorrow, I'm not worried about two weeks from now. I'm not worried about what's gonna happen. Like today I'm choosing Jesus and I, and therefore I am choosing freedom. And I love that about, about this book because I've just, I've seen it. I've literally seen it in and that Grant has been walking the book with them through it and I am watching them who are struggling with, with certain things and it's just this like every day they'll text each other 24 hours with a green check Mark. And it's. There's. It's just, like, accountability of, like, hey, I don't have to worry about tomorrow, but today, 24 hours check mark. Like, you know, and it's just been so powerful. So, anyways, I love that your. Your book is just a focus on, like, today, right now. And so I'd love for you to talk about that a little bit and then just some practical steps of how do I live and walk in freedom today?
- [55:32]
B
Yep. So, Maddie, I. When my family. There's family intervention, 30 years old, dying of alcoholism. You're hurting us. You're hurting yourself. We're not going to let you go through. Walk into an AA meeting. And I'm like, all right, I'm an alcoholic. Like, I couldn't conceive. I drank from 13 to 30. Like, what do you do on Friday night? What do you do on vacation? What do you do at New Year's? What do you do at your buddy's wedding? What do you do at Christmas? What do you do at Saturday at noon? What do you do when you hungover? What do you do after work with your clients? Like, what do you. I didn't have a category for life without alcohol, so the prospect of, could you quit for the rest of your life? I'm like, no. Like, I'm dead in the water. Like, there's no feasible way. And even if I could, it sounds so miserable, because as a mom, what you've done is you just took away my pacifier, and now I'm just screaming and crying. You take away my alcohol. Like, and you don't replace that with anything. Like, I'm miserable. And so I go to this first AA meeting, and aa, you know, let me. Let me say this. It's like they'll pray to the God of the tornob, the God of the Coke machine, God of your own understanding. There's one true God. AA will help you get sober. It will not lead you to salvation. It will not give you a new life. You may stop that sin, but you're going to swap to another sin. Like, you need. You need to be made, born again, new. But there I am in aa, so I'm not. I'm not prescribing, and I'm explaining it. And they said, do you want to quit drinking? I was like, no, I don't want to quit drinking. Like, you get. That's. That's the only semblance of peace I have. Like, they said, would anyone commit to staying sober for the. For 24 hours? And it was like, The Holy Spirit was pushing me out of my seat. I mean, here I'm surrounded by total strangers. I'm like, what have I done with my life that I'm sitting in an AA meeting? Like, I was dealt a pretty good hand. Good parents, good school, I mean, good grades, good job. Like, what am I doing? And it was like God was pushing me up. I go to the front, I'm standing there in front of all these people I've never met. Like, horrible, horrible. Felt so ashamed. And the guy says, do you want to quit drinking? And I'm like, that's not what you ask. You ask, would you be willing to quit for 24 hours? And I was like, no, I don't want to quit. And he kind of looked at me shocked. And I was like, but I know I'm sitting on a time bomb if I don't. He's like, alright, well, nevermind that. Will you commit to staying sober for 24 hours? And honestly, Matty, I thought it was the stupidest question in the world. And I, in my mind in that second, I was like, like, I don't know what this place is, but I'm never coming back. Like, if that's what they have to offer me. Will you quit for 24 hours? I need a lifetime of help. I don't need a day of help. Like I can go a day. This is worthless. And I start walking out and this guy stops me and he said, hey, I saw you said you'd commit to 24 hours. If you're going to do this, you'd need some help. And I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. Like, just get me out of here. I want to go drink, like whatever. And he's like, will you commit to not drink alcohol for the next 24 hours? I'm like, were you here? Did you hear what I said? Yes, I said I'd go a day. He's like, well, take down my number and I want you to call me tomorrow and let me know if you stayed sober. That changed everything. That went from like my own personal commitment to now. Now I had accountability now. I was making a proactive decision to not drink. And somebody was gonna follow up with me the next day to ask me if I did. And now I had a friend in the fight, Charlie Parker. He's at home with the Lord now. And so I called Charlie and I still think this is really stupid. And I'm like, call him. The next day I didn't drink. I went some 24 hour diner and just sat there, drank coffee. Call him the next day, 6 o'. Clock. He's like, hey, how'd you do? I was like, stayed sober, didn't drink. He's like, okay, you want to go another 24 hours? I was like, hey, I know you mean well. Thank you for your help. But I need real help. I need serious help. Two doctors have told me I'm dying. I need help. I don't need a day. I don't need 48 hours. Need help. He goes, yeah, will you go 24 hours? And I was like. And then he said something else. By God's strength, change things too. Now it's not just my own commitment, it's God helping me. He said, I want you to go get on your knees and ask God to keep you sober for 24 hours. And then I want you to call me tomorrow at 6 o' clock and let me know how you did. Two days became three, three became four, four became a week, A week became a month, month became a year. And here I am, 19 years sober. I still got on my knees every single day not to keep sober from alcohol anymore. Now I'm like, keep me from raising my voice at my kids. Keep me from a harsh tone with my wife. Keep me from, you know, pride or insecurity or people pleasing. It's like there's different things I'm asking God to put to death every day to keep me from. But what I know is that he sets people free. He not only saves you, he keeps you safe. And a lifetime of freedom, at least in my case, 19 days of. Of 19 years of freedom is not 19 years. It's made up of singular days where God gave me the strength to not drink. He took away the craving for a piece of alcohol because he gave me supernatural, eternal peace of Christ, which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. He gave me the Spirit's peace. And so I didn't need the piece of a fifth of scotch. It's like, I got something better.
- [61:18]
A
Yeah.
- [61:18]
B
And so that came one day at a time. That was the journey. You want me to walk you through? Like, simple. The simple. How someone can walk that out.
- [61:27]
A
Yeah, I'd love to jump into. Yeah. Like, practicals of someone who finds themselves in an addiction. Like, what are some even practical steps of how to break free from an addiction?
- [61:38]
B
Yeah. So here it is. Very simply, I'd say if you find yourself stuck, you need to act. If you're stuck in sin, an addiction or a struggle, you need to act. This could be for anything. The a is ask. Ask God for help. It says in Romans 8:13, if you live according to the flesh, you do what you want to do, you will die. Sin leads to death, but God never leaves us there. But if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the flesh, you'll live well right there. He tells them, us that the spirit's the sin killer. He's the one that can kill the struggle that you're struggling with or your addiction. It says, by the spirit, he's the means. If by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the flesh, you'll live. And so you simply ask him. He's waiting for us to ask. And so I get on my knees every day. I tell people to do so if they can not. Because there's anything magical about getting on your knees. Honestly, it's more for me than I think it is. Even as for God. But you do see it in the Scriptures. People getting on their knees, raising their hands. For me, it's a position of humility before my sovereign, before my Lord, to say, I'm a really bad master of my life. You're master of my life. I'm not a good lord of my life. You're the good Lord. And so I get on my knees, surrender my day to God. I ask him, God, in this case, will you keep me sober for the next 24 hours? Now, he lives to do that. That's his job. He is the sin killer. And then the C is commit. So that would be you with another sister in Christ, me with another guy in Christ. Like, grant to say to them, I commit for the next 24 hours to not drink, to not look at porn, to not stay over my girlfriends, to not under, eat, overeat, gamble, whatever it may be. I commit to you by God's strength. There's the A, the C. Commit for the next 24 hours. I tell people, like, because for me, I couldn't imagine a lifetime without alcohol. And I'll say to someone who's struggling with porn, hey, could you quit porn for the rest of your life? They're like, well, I'd like to, but history would show otherwise. I'm like, yeah, I get it. Could you go a day? And they're like, yeah, I could go a day. I'm like, great. That's all that. That's all God asks. You know, it says, seek first his kingdom and his righteousness today, don't worry about tomorrow. Tomorrow's got enough worries of its own. God's just saying, seek me and my kingdom, my Righteousness today, don't worry about tomorrow's gonna crush you. Thinking about quitting for a lifetime will crush you. Will you walk with me today? Walk with the spirit. You won't gratify the desires of the flesh. And Jesus says, you know, give us today our daily bread. That's our prayer. Not monthly bread, not annual bread, certainly not lifetime bread. Because I think if he gave me lifetime bread, he'd see me once in my lifetime. And I think God wants to keep me really close. And he's like, here's enough for today. See you tomorrow. Here's enough for today. See you tomorrow. And he keeps us close and dependent upon him. So the sea is commit for 24 hours by God's strength to another brother or sister. For that I would say it's Hebrews 3:13. It says, encourage one another daily so that you will not be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. So it's a team sport. Christianity, there's no individual like me and Jesus. All of scripture are the one another's. And so this commitment and they would do it to you because everybody's got something they're dealing with. Maybe, maybe I'm struggling with porn and he's struggling with impurity or lying at work or I don't know what burning doom scrolling on Instagram. It's like, okay, what are you struggling with? And we go to war together. And in that sense we're helping each other. We're doing that. Hebrews 3:13, that commitment to 24 hours and then the T is talk or text in 24 hours. That's what you said Grant's doing. He gets a little green check mark like in for another 24. This is us walking together daily. And to that I'd go Back to James 5:16. Confess your sins to one another and pray for each other so that you may be healed. And that's not a once in a lifetime thing. That's like an everyday thing. We're just praying for each other. And God promises healing. And so. So if you're stuck in sin a ask c commit t talk or text within every 24 hours, set an alarm on your phone. Checking in with each other. God's going to set you free. That's not because I came up with act. That's because that's who God is. He does it. He delivers people from sin so good.
- [66:09]
A
And there is so much hope for every single one of you listening that you don't have to stay bound. You don't have to stay stuck. There is is God has so much more for your life. And freedom is available. Freedom is possible. I think so many times we just think it's not. I think so many times we just settle for feeling bound and feeling stuck. And like you mentioned, it just is what it is. This is just my thing. This is my crutch. This is my. And it doesn't have to be. You can actually live free. And it is so much better than the quote, unquote freedom that the world offers us because the enemy is, is so sneaky and deceiving to make us feel and think and believe that there is freedom found in freedom of expression or freedom found in doing whatever the heck you want to do, whenever you want to do it, however you want to do it. And the truth is that the world's version of freedom binds you, but the freedom that God offers sets you free here and forevermore. And that is what we get to have access to. And it's the gift. It's the gift of God. It's not anything that we do, it's not anything that we work for. And the wages of sin is death. But God's grace is a gift and we get to accept that and receive that. It doesn't matter how you're raised. It doesn't matter. And, and you know what's so interesting, and I'd love to, to go here before we close is I think sometimes the way we're raised, I think sometimes what we're exposed to, it, it can be passed down or it can be something that we just don't even maybe know that there's another way. Like we don't even know that there's another option because maybe we were raised in alcoholic home, maybe we were raised in a home where, you know, our parents are angry and screaming at each other all the time and dysfunction is, is normal. You know, maybe we're raised in a home where, you know, a parent struggles with eating or idolizes body image, whatever, whatever the sin struggle may be growing up in our home or growing up with friends that struggle with something or pass down generational sin is a very real thing. And I think for some people, you know, it can be something that you don't, you don't know how to break free because maybe it didn't even start with you. And the truth is it didn't start with. It actually didn't start with any of us. Started with Adam and Eve, actually started with Satan. But I, I just, I think that that is, that would be something that would be helpful to, to talk about. Because yeah, what if, what if it wasn't even your original sin struggle and it's something you've been exposed to and how do you, like, how do you get free from. Let's just tackle this. How do you get free from like a generational sin and a generational sin struggle that you've seen? Your parents have struggled with this, your parents. Parents have struggled with this, your parents, you know, and. Because I look at a lot of people who struggle with alcohol and it's like, oh, my mom was an alcoholic and then my, my mom's dad was an alcoholic. And then. And you see it kind of traced. How can we break that, that generational sin curse and, and choose freedom for ourselves and the people who are going to come behind us?
- [69:14]
B
Yeah. So the reality is, is Jesus died for our sins, washes us clean, makes us new. And at the same time, there are those family of origin, generational sin, nature versus nurture, proclivity versus for me, like always, that fascination with alcohol. For some, it may be a man, I've always like, had the same sex attraction for others. And I don't know that we will ever this side of eternity, like, know fully. But I do believe with all my heart we can be fully free. And so it's not an information thing as much as it's a transformation thing. So I think sometimes people can go like, scouring back trying to figure out maybe from a curiosity thing or like, and, and what I would say is to focus on Christ, to bring others into that, to be prayed over. I mean, James 5, it says if someone is sick for them to be anointed with oil. It says if someone has sinned for the elders to pray hands and, and they will, you know, be free, healed prayers of the righteous. And, and I do think, I think there's, I think we can err on either side of the pendulum where it's like, oh, Satan doesn't exist at all. He's. He's busy doing something else or I don't know what. And like, oh, he's everywhere doing everything. And he made my car battery die and made me smell my coffee. And I think, I think we neglect because of that. But I think there's a real reality. I think there's much greater reality of the spiritual realm than we ever realize. And I do think he is a part of, part of some of that generational cursing and some of the sins that are, that are passed down. And so I think a new life in Christ. But then there can be those things that remain and Having people come and pray over you saying, in the name of Jesus. Any, like, hereditary generational curses. Legal grounds are broken by the blood in the name of Jesus. And that doesn't have to be sensational and screaming and voice raised. I used to have really. And by used to, I mean like within the last calendar year. Demonic dreams. Always have since I was a little kid. Not nightmares. People like, oh, you have nightmares? I'm like, no, demonic. Like evil, palpable demonic, where Laura has to wake me up because I'm screaming in my sleep. And I went to this deliverance ministry, super calm. Three guys weren't even on staff with the church. Lay leaders sat in a room, they read from a binder. They weren't screaming. They were just like, in the name of Jesus Christ, by the blood of Jesus Christ. John Andrew Elmore is free from any generational curse of alcoholism. John Andrew Elmore is free from anything that happened because of any sexual abuse or connection that has happened through his life. John Andrew Elmore. And we're just like, speak this over me, Maddie. The dream, the nightmares are gone. Not nightmares, demonic dreams gone. Like, gone gone. And so there's a reality there. And I think it's important for people to, if they're finding stuck in attempts towards repentance, bring others into that, lay hands on them, anoint them with oil, pray over them, claim the blood in name of Jesus and pray fast. We haven't talked about fasting. Like, fasting is so powerful. It breaks the cravings of the flesh. It subdues the flesh and gives us a real spiritual acuity to the voice of God. And so you're teaching your body. I don't answer to you. You, the cravings for men, women, lust, pleasure drinking, drug, whatever. You're like, I don't answer to those cravings. I answer to God. So fasting is really a powerful way to break off sin by the spirit of God.
- [73:21]
A
Man, I got chills and had tears just as you were talking about just having that deliverance meeting and, and bringing other people into it. And just the prayers that were prayed over. You. And I honestly would love to end this conversation with you praying over those who are, who are listening and watching. And I, and I want all of you to also hear that this, this conversation and this podcast, this is, this is awesome. But you also need people in your own personal life to, to, to walk with and you need to have that accountability and like, John's gonna pray over you, but also, like, take the next step too of, you know, go, go find A mentor and an accountability partner and a local church. Like, that's so important in order to experience the freedom that God has for you. And I love that you're talking about prayer and fasting. I get asked about this a lot, actually, and I've not done a whole podcast on this, but I. I love it. I love it so much. Because as you're talking about it, it's like prayer is that. It's that input, it's that feeding of your spirit, and then fasting is this, like, starving of your flesh. It's saying, hey, I'm denying myself the. The gratifying thing, things that this world can give me, and I'm feeding myself instead, the things that God can give me. And that's so important when we're talking about freedom, because it's a both and it's a resisting and it's a pursuing. It's a pursuit of righteousness, and it's a resisting from sin and the things that are not of God. And so when you. When you ask yourself, like, what is sin? It's just to miss the mark. It's just to, like. It's just to, like, not. It's not to choose righteousness. It's to choose, you know, your own cravings, your own passionate, lustful desires. And you know, how one way you can really help fight that is prayer and fasting. It talks about this story in the Bible of this, and it sounds so crazy when we're talking about, like, demons and demonic things. And it's like, man, it's real. It's real. And I don't know, there's a lot of opinions, but I'm like, I've. There are believers that I know that have gotten delivered from demons. And so I'm just like, that is. That is a real thing. That. Whether it's consequences of sin from past, whether it's generational things that have been passed down, that is a real thing. And Jesus is explaining to his disciples, hey, like, this kind of demon, this kind of struggle that this man is wrestling with can only come out through prayer and fasting. And there's so much just, like, power in that. And. And so even just thinking through how do I resist sin, how do I overcome sin? The struggle of sin feels so real. Feels so like there's no way out. Actually, First Corinthians talks about, like, there is. There is no temptation that you cannot. Like, God will always provide a way out, which means that overcoming sin is possible. It means you are not a. You don't have to Be a slave to sin. You can actually choose to be a slave to righteousness. That can be your story, even if it hasn't been. You can choose today. As we've been talking about John's book, Freedom Starts Today. You can choose today, even if freedom hasn't been your story up until this point. And you want to be free. You've made the statement, I just want to be free. That can be your story today. And I talk about a lot of practicals, too, in my chapter in my book on. On sin, because there's a lot of sin struggles I've had that have had a grip on me, and I didn't know how to break free, and I didn't know if it was possible. And so I. I wrote about that, just how it. How it spread, how you have to be intense and intentional with sin. It won't go away on its own. And the things that helped me cut it off and cut it out of my life. So I'm going to include John's book. I'm going to include my new book for you guys in this episode. But I would love to just close in prayer, if you don't mind just praying over. Yeah, whatever. Whatever God lays on your heart for those who are. Who are wrestling and struggling with sin.
- [77:08]
B
Yeah, for sure. Thank you, Maddie. Father, God, thank you so much for the truths that you have put in your word, your eternal word that Maddie and I have been able to talk about and share today and encourage one another and everyone who's listening. We don't have any wisdom to share apart from that. Nor do we have anyone to proclaim other than Jesus Christ, our Lord and the Holy Spirit, whom you have sent. Jesus said, it's better for you that I go, because if I do, we will send the paraclete, the Holy Spirit, the counselor, the comforter, the one who kills sin. And so, Lord, I pray for every listener right now, anyone who would ever hear this message. And you can just. You can. I mean, I would encourage you to lift up your hands, open your hands, get on your knees, if you're able, in a position of humility, just to receive and for today to be the first day of your freedom, that Jesus not only saved you, but he today will keep you safe as you walk by the Spirit and are able to be set free from the desires of the flesh. So with your hands open, I'm a prayer for my brothers and sisters. Lord, I pray that you'd set your people free. Moses was a type of Christ. He was a foreshadowing and he went to the king of the land and said, let my people go. I pray that over these who may be enslaved to sin by Satan, that they would be freed, that they would go into the promised land that is Christ, that they would find the fullness and freedom, that the restlessness they would find their rest. In you, Spirit, I pray that you would break chains in the name of Jesus, that all over the nation and world chains would be breaking of every sin under the sun that has entangled your sons and daughters. Just as I would run to my kids to free them from anything they were physically entangled in. Would you run to those who were there in this place and set them free from that which they can't? It is. It is a more powerful foe than they are able. But you are able is your job in part. You live to do it. You say in First Peter 1 that we've been adopted by the Father, washed by the blood, and sanctified by the Spirit. And so would you do this work of sanctification. And I pray there would be just a great number of people having heard today that would begin a journey of repentance and holiness as saints. So, Lord, do what only you can do. In the mighty name of Jesus, amen.
- [79:54]
A
Amen. Oh, thank you so much for coming on this podcast. I've been encouraged by this conversation. And I know all those who have listened and tuned into this podcast were just encouraged by the way you just speak the truth and it's so readily available on your tongue because you spend time in God's word and it's evident that you spend time in God's presence. Presence. And so really grateful. Grateful for you and Laura, grateful for Harris Creek Church. If you guys haven't made the connection, John is a pastor at Harris Creek Church, and that is where Grant was also the young adult pastor at Harris Creek before we moved to Nashville. And so all of the intertwining things, but we, we just. We love you guys and super grateful for y'. All. I, like I said, will include the link to John Book. So you guys need to go and check it out. Let us know how this encouraged you. Let us know how we can pray for you. And as always, guys, be sure to stay you and stay true. We love you.
- [80:57]
C
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