Why Am I So Lonely? with Jennie Allen

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt – Episode: "Why Am I So Lonely?" with Jennie Allen

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Introduction

In the poignant episode titled "Why Am I So Lonely?" from the podcast Stay True with Madison Prewett Troutt, host Madison Prewett Troutt engages in a heartfelt conversation with Jennie Allen, a renowned author, speaker, and mentor. Released on May 5, 2025, this episode delves deep into the pervasive issue of loneliness, exploring its roots, impacts, and solutions grounded in faith and genuine community.

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The Reality of Loneliness

Jennie Allen opens the discussion by addressing the widespread nature of loneliness, emphasizing that it affects a significant portion of the population.

Jenny Allen [08:42]: "I would imagine post Covid, we just live even in a more disconnected world. And so it's probably 4 and 5."

She highlights the deceptive facade of social media, which often exacerbates feelings of isolation by showcasing curated moments of others' lives.

Jenny Allen [08:42]: "Social media is going to tell that story... it's like the worst, like, middle school lunch table scenario all the time."

Madison shares her personal experience of feeling lonely despite being surrounded by people, underscoring the internal struggle many face.

Madison Pruitt Trout [07:36]: "I feel like I have a lot of people around me. I do life quote unquote with a lot of people, but I'm not really inviting them in. And I feel like they don't really know me."

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Initiating Connections

A central theme of the episode is the importance of taking the first step in building meaningful relationships. Jennie emphasizes that combating loneliness often requires personal initiative, despite the fear of rejection.

Jenny Allen [09:00]: "You have to initiate. And I know that feels like bad news, and I know that feels like a lot of work... The only people on earth that are not lonely are the people that initiate."

She acknowledges the difficulty in initiating connections but reassures listeners that persistence is key.

Jenny Allen [12:53]: "You've got to set those patterns in our life and be the ones that initiate and expect it to be awkward and keep doing it anyway."

Madison concurs, sharing her challenges in reaching out and the vulnerability involved in expressing personal struggles.

Madison Pruitt Trout [14:27]: "What's awkward and hard for me is to say, I need you, or to say, I'm struggling."

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Building a Local Community

Jennie and Madison discuss the significance of being part of a local community, particularly within a church setting, as a foundation for authentic relationships.

Jenny Allen [26:16]: "Your local community is so important... Like, Gospel meets God."

Madison narrates her transformative experience when she moved to Nashville and sought out a local church community, highlighting the immediate benefits of becoming actively involved.

Madison Pruitt Trout [53:02]: "We church hopped for a little bit and then I literally had to... we were like, okay, is it biblically sound teaching and are there people there that we could see ourselves doing life with?"

Jennie reinforces the theological basis for community, citing scriptures that advocate for mutual support and accountability.

Jenny Allen [34:56]: "He reveals his communal nature... God built us to be communal."

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Differentiating Solitude and Loneliness

The conversation distinguishes between purposeful solitude, which can be spiritually enriching, and loneliness, which is distressing and often unintentional.

Madison Pruitt Trout [38:04]: "What is the difference between solitude that is healing and loneliness that is hurtful?"

Jennie explains that solitude can be a deliberate spiritual practice aimed at deepening one's relationship with God, contrasting it with the unintended and often painful experience of loneliness.

Jenny Allen [40:05]: "Solitude is actually a spiritual practice... Just like fasting, just like prayer, just like Bible reading."

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Handling Friendships in Faith

Jennie addresses the complexities of maintaining friendships when one's spiritual journey diverges from that of their friends. She introduces the concept of categorizing friends into those you need and those who need you, advocating for relationships that foster growth and mutual support.

Jenny Allen [56:31]: "There are two types of people you need in your life. The people that you need and the people that need you."

Madison adds that while it's essential to support friends who are open to growth, it's equally important to distance oneself from relationships that hinder spiritual and personal development.

Madison Pruitt Trout [60:58]: "If you're in school, whether you're out of school... you need people that are on your level spiritually, same gender, and... have them hold you accountable."

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Practical Steps to Find Your People

The episode offers actionable advice for listeners seeking to overcome loneliness and build meaningful connections:

1. Embrace Awkwardness: Recognize that initial interactions may be uncomfortable but view them as necessary steps toward forming deeper relationships.

   Jenny Allen [49:01]: "You are going to do it awkwardly. You have to embrace how awkward this is."

2. Initiate Regular Meetings: Establish consistent gatherings, such as joining small groups at church or setting regular dates with friends to ensure ongoing connection.

   Jenny Allen [50:14]: "Regular helps. That's where a small group can come in handy."

3. Serve and Participate: Engage in community activities or volunteer within your local church to meet like-minded individuals and build bonds through shared purpose.

   Madison Pruitt Trout [53:07]: "How can we get connected? How can we get plugged in?"

4. Set Boundaries with Unhealthy Relationships: Be honest and direct in distancing from friendships that are toxic or do not contribute positively to your growth.

   Jenny Allen [64:21]: "I think you just say the truth. I think you say, I love you and I'm gonna always love you. And I'm trying to change my life."

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Personal Stories and Experiences

Madison shares her journey of moving to Dallas and feeling isolated until she connected with Jennie’s small group, which became a pivotal moment in combating her loneliness.

Madison Pruitt Trout [05:06]: "Coming to your living room, meeting you, that was such a big pivotal moment for me."

Jennie recounts a transformative dinner experience where she invited deeper, more personal conversations, leading to lasting connections with her pastor and others.

Jenny Allen [17:18]: "We spent four hours together last night. It makes me think, how would you share what's really going on."

These narratives illustrate the profound impact of intentional community-building and vulnerability in fostering meaningful relationships.

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Key Takeaways

1. You’re Not Alone: Loneliness is a common experience, amplified in today’s disconnected society, but knowing others feel the same can provide comfort.

   Jennie Allen [07:54]: "Do not take it personally. Do not feel a sense of rejection."

2. Initiate and Persist: Taking the first step in reaching out is crucial, even when faced with awkwardness or rejection.

3. Build Local Connections: Engaging with a local community, particularly through church, lays the foundation for strong, supportive relationships.

4. Differentiate Solitude from Loneliness: Purposeful solitude can be spiritually beneficial, while loneliness often requires active steps to overcome.

5. Prioritize Healthy Friendships: Surround yourself with individuals who support your growth and whom you can also support in return.

6. Be Honest and Set Boundaries: Maintain integrity by distancing from toxic relationships and fostering connections that align with your values and faith.

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Conclusion

"Why Am I So Lonely?" is a deeply introspective episode that not only acknowledges the pervasive issue of loneliness but also provides believers with practical strategies rooted in faith to overcome it. Madison and Jennie’s candid dialogue encourages listeners to take proactive steps towards building authentic, supportive communities, emphasizing that staying true to one’s values and seeking genuine connections are paramount in combating loneliness. The episode serves as a reminder that while the path to meaningful relationships may be fraught with challenges, the rewards of belonging and mutual growth are invaluable.

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Notable Quotes

• Jennie Allen [08:42]: "The worst, like, middle school lunch table scenario all the time."
• Jenny Allen [09:00]: "You have to initiate... The only people on earth that are not lonely are the people that initiate."
• Madison Pruitt Trout [14:27]: "What's awkward and hard for me is to say, I need you, or to say, I'm struggling."
• Jenny Allen [26:16]: "Your local community is so important."
• Madison Pruitt Trout [38:04]: "What is the difference between solitude that is healing and loneliness that is hurtful?"
• Jenny Allen [34:56]: "He reveals his communal nature... God built us to be communal."
• Jenny Allen [56:31]: "There are two types of people you need in your life. The people that you need and the people that need you."
• Madison Pruitt Trout [60:58]: "You need people that are on your level spiritually, same gender, and have them hold you accountable."
• Jenny Allen [64:21]: "I think you just say the truth. I think you say, I love you and I'm gonna always love you. And I'm trying to change my life."

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Recommendation

Listeners seeking to deepen their understanding and application of the principles discussed are encouraged to read Jennie Allen's book, Find Your People, which provides further insights and practical guidance on building meaningful relationships.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Stay True masterfully intertwines personal anecdotes with spiritual wisdom, offering a blueprint for those grappling with loneliness to find solace and connection within their communities. Madison and Jennie's collaboration serves as an inspiring testament to the power of vulnerability, intentionality, and faith-based relationships in overcoming the challenges of modern isolation.

Transcript

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[Madison Pruitt Trout]

What would be your advice on how do you fight loneliness?

[Jenny Allen]

This is about to be controversial.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Good.

[Jenny Allen]

This is gonn confrontational to a lot of you.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

What do you do when you're passionate about living life as a Christian but you have friends that would call themselves Christian but they don't live like Christians?

[Jenny Allen]

I really prayed for five friends in five miles. Can we stop gossiping? Can we just draw the line and stop? Do you understand how unsafe, gossipy friendships are?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Oftentimes the right thing is the hard thing and so do the hard thing.

[Jenny Allen]

People that you need and people that need you. And if they're not in one of those categories, I don't have time.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

What's up guys? Welcome back to another episode of Stay True podcast. I'm your host, Madison Pruitt Trout, here with my lovely, lovely friend who's been on the podcast before, Jenny Allen. Author, speaker, writer. All the things she does everything. And she's my mentor and friend.

[Jenny Allen]

And I'm so love you so much. I love hanging out. I'm glad we have an excuse just to talk for an hour.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

She. We're both, like, very busy, but when we have, like, our time together, it's like I can feel the earth shake. Like, I'm like, we are the most. Just passionate, excited.

[Jenny Allen]

I know.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

We just.

[Jenny Allen]

We're a lot alike. I think we are a lot of. Like when the other day we were in the same room and for the first time with Hosanna, which is the baby on planet Earth. Unless you have been with this baby in person, you do not understand. I got butterflies in my stomach. She is so cute. And I'm so in love with her.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

She's so.

[Jenny Allen]

And I don't. I don't love all the babies in the world. You know, this is. This is special for her. But I. I confined you. And then we. There were lots of people and the whole. I didn't tell you this. The whole pregame to unite. I'm just kind of looking for you. And because I was like, I just. I didn't. I just wanted to be with you. And so I'm so glad we are in a room together. Now. All of you are here, too. Yay. But.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

But it kind of feels like you're not. In a way. We forget that there's cameras. It's like, this is just time where we get to hang and talk.

[Jenny Allen]

Hang out.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Which is my favorite. And if you guys didn't see the last episode that Jenny did it with on say True, it was so good. And we've known each other for a while. I mean, it's been three, four years.

[Jenny Allen]

Yeah. Since I came to my living room.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah. Came to your house.

[Jenny Allen]

Did.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I didn't know her. She didn't know me. I got invited to be a part of this small group she was leading at her house and. Which I think is just so cool because Jenny is like, world renowned speaker authority. I mean, just an unbelievable human being. But she's like, hey, I want to gather a small group of ladies in my living room and just pour into them. And I was like, cool. She sounds amazing. Let me come. Like, let me. But I was a little resistant. Not because of her, but just because I had been hurt by church and church leaders and whatever in the past. But I showed up and I was like, this woman is real. Like, she's the real deal. And she's just the most, like, relatable, humble, fiery, passionate, human. You'll Meet. But we've been so close ever since. But I think it was like we spoke each other's language. But one of my favorite qualities about you is just your realness and your vulnerability. I mean it just is like you, you feel it from the moment that people meet you. And it's the same on camera as off camera, which is like the best thing ever because it's not like you're turning it on for an episode and then it's like, wait, where'd it go? It's like you are living that every single day. And I'm so grateful. And today's conversation on the podcast, we're gonna be talking all about loneliness and community, how to find people, how to find your people, which Jenny wrote a book called find your people and I'll be linking it in this episode so you can go and buy it. But I am so glad we're talking about this because when I moved to Dallas.

[Jenny Allen]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And came to your living room, I didn't have my people yet. I didn't have community. And you were such a big, like that small group specifically. But like coming to your living room, meeting you, that was such a big pivotal moment for me. And it, it truly helped me in so many different ways. But like it really did help me fight a lot of lies. I was believing loneliness that I was settling for and cuz I, I am a very, I can figure it out on my own individual. Like let me. You are do my life. Like let me figure it out. And you really helped me be like confess that lie you're believing. Like bring people in, invite the Holy Spirit, but also invite people in. Like, you don't have to do life alone. You don't have to carry that by yourself. And I'm so grateful. And I've seen you do that at even all these UNITE events and across college campuses. If you guys haven't heard of unite, it's this movement of going across college campuses and we're seeing thousands of people come to know Jesus. But Jenny's going on stage and having this message where she's saying like there is sin and weight that you've been carrying that you've been holding to yourself and you haven't let anyone in and you haven't confessed, you haven't said it out loud. And it's so crazy. You guys have chills just thinking about it. It's so crazy seeing so many people literally say the thing that they were like, I'm going to take this to the grave. I'm never going to Say this out loud. And as soon as they say it, you literally physically can see the chains break. Like, you see freedom found in that moment. And I think that's one of the most beautiful designs of godly friendship.

[Jenny Allen]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Godly.

[Jenny Allen]

So good.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Confession.

[Jenny Allen]

Yes.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Is confession. It's like, it's this beautiful partnership of confession and accountability of like, hey, I'm going confess the things. It's really hard to say. But then I need you in my life so that I don't keep falling back into it.

[Jenny Allen]

Right.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I need you to like, hold me accountable. So I'm so excited to dive into this and have lots of questions I asked stay true. You know, what questions you have on friendship.

[Jenny Allen]

So excited.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Community. All the things.

[Jenny Allen]

Yes.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And so for starters, before we get into, you know, friendship, I want to talk about loneliness.

[Jenny Allen]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Because I do think that for a lot of people, whether they admit it or not, that's where they're at. And they would. They feel inside. I feel so alone. I feel so alone in my feelings. I feel so alone in my struggles. I feel so alone in life. I feel like no one understands me. I don't know how to make friends. I don't know how to go deep.

[Jenny Allen]

Yeah. I think that's common.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Or I have a lot of people around me, but I feel like no one really knows me.

[Jenny Allen]

Yes.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And that was my. That was my story, was like, I feel like I have a lot of people around me. I do life quote unquote with a lot of people, but I'm not really inviting them in. And I feel like they don't really know me.

[Jenny Allen]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And so what would be your advice on how do you fight loneliness?

[Jenny Allen]

Yeah. Well, first of all, it is so helpful to know that every single person listening that feels like they're alone is not alone. That three in five. This is pre Covid. The research says three in five people admitted to feeling lonely. And so I would imagine post Covid, we just live even in a more disconnected world. And so it's probably 4 and 5. So when you feel lonely, what you need to remember, what the enemy would want you to feel is that that you are the only one feeling that way. That everybody else has their friends. And of course social media is going to tell that story. I mean, if any of you are on Snapchat, my kids, I look at Snapchat and it makes me want to throw up. And the reason why is that map where you can see where everybody.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I don't have Snapchat. I'm like, wow, they.

[Jenny Allen]

There's A map. And you can see, like, all your friends being at one point. It's like the. The worst, like, middle school lunch table scenario all the time, you know? And so I just. I just have such a heart for this generation that has had this sense. One, they are more disconnected and lonely than anyone before them. But two, they are observing a fake sense of connection that everybody has but them. And so you are not alone. Everybody is feeling this way. I would say even the people that you would think never feel this way. I mean, Maddie, you just admitted to feeling that way. Nobody on earth would think you would ever feel that way. So everybody take a deep breath, and it feels good to know, okay, I'm not alone. And then I would say, I mean, we're going to talk a lot about a lot of different things, but let me. Let me give you just the first thing that will help anyone if you don't listen any further, like, this is going to change your life. You have to initiate. And I know that feels like bad news, and I know that feels like a lot of work. And some of you would say back to me if we were sitting down. I have. I have initiated over and over and over again. I've been rejected. People don't initiate back. And I'm going to say the only people on earth that are not lonely are the people that initiate. So you can complain that you've experienced rejection. You can complain that people don't initiate back, but at the end of the day, you have to decide to keep doing it if you don't want to be lonely. So you go first, you invite, you be the one. And. And that's. You know, we're going to talk about a lot of other things here, but if. If there's one way to stop being lonely, it is make a call, send a text, invite somebody to go to coffee, invite somebody, go on a walk, invite a group of girls over to your house and pour into them. Invite, invite, invite. And it. It's. It's a start. Yeah, it's a start.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah. And I'm glad you said that because that. I was actually gonna ask you that later in this conversation because that was one of the things that a lot of people said was, I've initiated, and it's not reciprocated. And so what do you do with that?

[Jenny Allen]

So I would just say this. I would say it is a muscle that you have to train, and most people aren't training it. So the fact that you're the only one, do not take it personally. Do not feel A sense of rejection. People aren't good at this. It's so funny. My son just sent out this invitation for a craw. Crawfish boil. Does that sound right?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I'm like, I haven't been to one, but it's not good.

[Jenny Allen]

It's a guy thing, you know? But he sent it to, like, 150 people. And he told them, on this day is the Kentucky Derby and another holiday, and we're gonna dress up in any of these things. Like, you can wear anything that fits these holidays. And it was just so cute and funny and. And. And he said he got sponsors. I mean, he got. He got, like, sponsors for all the different parts. And he said, listen, everybody, bring your friends. And so after he sends this out, he called me. He was like, mom, you cannot believe the reaction I got. Like, people are so grateful, and they feel like this is so creative and crazy. I whipped this up in two days. What's the deal? Like, why is this such a big deal to people? And I was like, connor, this comes naturally for you. You. You invite, you create experiences for people. This comes naturally for you. Everybody else, it doesn't. And it is special. And that means you need to use it all the more. But all of you, even if you're like, this doesn't come natural to me. Remember, it's a muscle. You have to train it. But do not be offended that nobody does this back. Because he was like, why would more people do this? This isn't that hard. And that was his mindset, because it's easy for him, but it's not for other people. I think we like our robes. I think we like to be in our, you know, watching Netflix.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So much easier to scroll.

[Jenny Allen]

Right? Right. And we choose it. We're lazy. We don't. We don't work at this. And we think it should just be there for us. Like, we don't have to work at it, and it's just gonna be there on a silver platter for us. It isn't like, I. I know I'm disappointing you tragically, but I'm helping you by doing so. Like, it's not gonna come. You have to create it. You have to be the one to do it, and you have to keep creating it. Because now there is a point in all friendship where if they're not reciprocating. This is more often happened to me than it has that I've had to say this. People have said to me, I feel like this is one way, and I have to snap up. And out of it and go, oh, my gosh, you're right. I have not pursued you. I. I'm relying on you pursuing me, and I have to work at it. I'm doing that this week with a friend that told me that last week. So, you know, I'm not a pro at this, but. But those conversations mean something. I'm, like, so grateful she told me so I think those conversations can help. But at the end of the day, the people that aren't lonely are the people that initiate.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

That's so good. Because so often we don't out of fear of rejection, or so often we don't because it's awkward, you know, or we use the excuse that, like, oh, I'm just. I'm anxious. I have social anxiety. So, like, I'm just not going to go. And it's like, there are going to be different things that are natural to you and that aren't. Like, for me, I'm the same as Connor. I'm like, I'm great with. Let me gather a group. I'm extroverted. Let's get everyone together. That's amazing. So much fun. But what's awkward and hard for me is to say, I need you, or to say, I'm struggling.

[Jenny Allen]

Good.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And to invite them into the really hard things. I'm good at that.

[Jenny Allen]

Like, me too.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

The easy, like, I'm good. I'm strong. Or giving me advice like, hey, oh, you're struggling. Let me tell you everything. Scripture says, let me pray for you. Let me help you. But to be the person that says, I need help is really awkward and hard for me.

[Jenny Allen]

I know.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I looked at Jenny one time and I said what I said. I think I said, I'm scared to feel. And I don't know how to say that I need some. Like, I was. I think I was.

[Jenny Allen]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

My relationship with Grant and with friendships, because that's hard for me.

[Jenny Allen]

Yeah. And I related to it in you. Right. Like, I'm the same way. I do the same thing. I protect myself. I mean, this is a whole other level girl. Like, and it is the thing. So you're right. So many of you out there right now are thinking, like, that's me. Like, I actually have lots of people around me, but I don't. I don't have depth, and I don't feel really known. Last night, we went out to eat with Ta and his wife, my pastor. And I just love them so much. And I thought, you know what we tend to do when we sit down together and hang out, which we do Pretty often is we talk about work and kids and all the things you normally talk about. But I was feeling extra vulnerable. Like, I mean, I'd just done unite and I'd just done the Arkansas State prayer breakfast and like pour it out and feeling like I'd had really unique experiences. But I thought, I want to feel, I want to feel known at this meal. I don't want us to just talk surface and I want to know them at this meal. And so I sat down and I mean, this is the awkward stuff we have to do, guys. Okay? If you want this to go deeper, this is the stuff you have to do. Yeah, My, my cute pastor who already thinks I'm completely off the rails, right? I hit the table and I'm like, okay, guys, I have a question for tonight. And they laughed and, and I said, what do we need to know in this meal that helps you feel really known? And the first kind of. They laughed and they were like, I don't know what I'm gonna say. I was like, well, I'll go first. And it totally shifted what I would have shared. I didn't share about the two events that I'd just done. I didn't share about the pressures I have at work right now. I didn't share about what each of my kids is doing. I shared my experience inside of all of that. I shared this. I'll just be really vulnerable here, that sometimes I feel like a little girl that got asked to be a general and I'm in the suit, I'm in the armor, and I'm just like a 12 year old little girl and I'm just doing my best out there and I'm not sure that it's enough. And everybody sees like a general and I'm inside. And so I shared all that with them that night at dinner last night. And we spent four hours together last night.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

The best conversations.

[Jenny Allen]

See, we never answered another question. Each person went. And it took four hours. And I just say that to say there is something underneath what you're sharing right now. Like, and I want you to think about it like the next time you're in a group setting, the next time you're a small enough group, you could share real things and save enough people. You could share real things. I felt safe to say that to him. And then when you, when you do it and you really think, what, what would make me feel known? Because how many times have we all gone out to dinner with people you love and gotten home and gone. Why wasn't that very fulfilling? Or I almost like you come home feeling more lonely than you did when you went.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, more drained.

[Jenny Allen]

Drained. And it's because, again, this is a muscle to go to the thing beneath the thing of what's really going on. But when you do that, at the end of the conversation, I did ask one more question. I said, tell me, like, how we can be better, like, life giving friends for you guys and. Cause he's my pastor and I love him and I want them to feel safe with us. And they were like, you know what I mean? Kat answered and she said, when I get in the car tonight, I'm gonna feel seen. I'm gonna feel like, this was interesting, this was safe. We talked about real things. Like, I am gonna get in the car and my heart is gonna feel full. And I just thought mine too, you know, Like, I. I felt that way too. When I got in the car and we left, I just was smiling and I felt really deeply connected to each of them, including my husband, who shared different things than I would have expected because we're usually talking about what's going on in our day. So I think we've got to be people that look for the. What's really going on. But we have. Again, it's good. This. This whole conversation is going to keep coming back to. You have to go first.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

You have to go first.

[Jenny Allen]

So I asked the question last night, and I'm going to repeat the question because I think it's a good one. I don't know who taught me it, but somebody, I'm sure, told it to me, which is, what do you need to. Or what do you need to share tonight that would make you feel known by us? That's the question. What do you need to share tonight that would help you feel known by us? And so I just would use that question. That's a great way to start. That's helped me a lot.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Your next dinner hang, your next table talk conversation. You guys take that question. It's so true. When you initiate a question like that, it shifts the whole. Like, you're all talking about. You know what? This is the podcast I listen to this week. This is what I wore the other day. This is what I have to do tomorrow. Like, you're talking about the most random things, and then someone asks an intentional question and it makes you. It makes you think, it makes you feel. And then because you're sharing those feelings, you get to empathize with each other and you feel connected to each other and you leave different than if you had just Shown up, done the easy thing, had like a laugh or two, had a good time.

[Jenny Allen]

It makes me think though, right now I should ask you that.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Okay, wait, what's the question again?

[Jenny Allen]

The question is, the question is for you to feel known by me. It's not pretend all these people are here, but, you know, let's be aware of them. What. How would you, what would you share that would help you feel known?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I'm running on no sleep. I. Wow, I'm about to cry. This is what she does, you know? I want to be a really good mom. And I'm wanting to balance walking in my purpose, doing what I feel like God's called me to do, while also loving my little girl so well. And so that has been my biggest prayer is like, I don't want one. I don't want her to see a mom who's constantly rushed and stressed. I want her to see a mom who kneels before Jesus and just worships. And I want her to see a mom who doesn't revolve her world around her, but prioritizes the right things and she feels seen and loved by me. And I'm trying my best to do that, but, you know, it's like, it's such a vulnerable thing, stepping into motherhood for the first time.

[Jenny Allen]

It's like so vulnerable.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I don't know what the heck I'm doing, you know, And I, I like knowing what I'm doing. I like being really good at what I'm doing and stepping into something like motherhood strips you of all that because you're like, it just, I mean, it does what it's supposed to do, like what all things God calls us to do, which is to be really dependent on him and to say, I actually can't do this without you, God. And that's what it's done for me. And so there's just been a lot of moments of. I'm so used to kind of like, I laugh with Grant, of how I'm so used to like, being in my bag is how I'd like to say it. Like feeling so, like, good and on top of. And, And I'm just like, man, I'm. I'm a little bit more exhausted. I'm a little bit more, you know, not as sharp. I can't remember things as well.

[Jenny Allen]

Yes, yes.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I feel, I feel a little more all over the place, but yet more simple minded, like more in tune with the most important things. It's. It's such an interesting season of life. And I would say to Go back to. My answer is just. I just want to do it well. And I want the Lord to be pleased with me. I want the Lord to be like you are. You haven't missed. You haven't been distracted by the many things you ha. You haven't missed the most important thing like you. Your eyes are on me. You're focused on what's most important. And you're just being faithful with what I've given you. And so I want to do motherhood well. I want to. I want the Lord to be pleased with me. And you know, sometimes I fear I miss the mark. And other days I'm like, I really gave it. I gave it my all. And I trust God is pleased with that.

[Jenny Allen]

I mean, girl, I'm having to hold back a lot right now because, you know, you. Part of you knows you're crushing this thing. Like you delight over that kid. And I'm so proud of you. And I love knowing that. I love knowing that insecurity. I feel like so loved that you just shared that with me. And I know everybody is just so grateful to hear that. And I feel. I just feel so grateful for just your power and strength and your weakness and fear and the things that all of us feel. I. I mean, I had that feeling. It makes me just flashback to a thousand trillion thoughts I had like that when my kids were young of just. I don't know if I'm doing this right, you know, And I bet your mom had felt the same way. And look at the three of you.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Totally.

[Jenny Allen]

You know, and it's.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It's what you're saying of you feel. You can feel so alone in your feelings, but then as soon as you say it out loud, you realize everyone else.

[Jenny Allen]

I felt it the whole time. And I would love like the. The thing I'm holding back right now that I genuinely am just like damning up because I don't think it's what God wants for this moment is. Is the reality of what it. How good you are at this and how. How God is going to use all of it together to build her. But I'm not going to go into that because I really don't think I'm supposed to. But what. What is beautiful? There's no. Nobody could have told me. Nobody could have taken those fears and insecurities away. But those fears and insecurities are there because you love her so much.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

You love her so much, so much. It's an insane love for.

[Jenny Allen]

You love God so much and you want to please him, which that's it. If you want to boil it all down, like, do those things, right, like, love your people, love God. That's. He said, let me boil it all down for you.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Totally.

[Jenny Allen]

And you're doing that, you know, you're knocking that out of the park, right?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And it's like when you just focus on Matthew 6:33 and you seek him first, it really is true that all other things will be added unto you. Like, everything else will fall in into place. If you just fix your eyes on Jesus, it's like, just run after him with all of your heart. And from there you'll learn how to love your daughter. From there you'll learn how to love your spouse. From there you'll learn how to love your people, you know, and love your friends and figure out work. And it's like it all just falls into place. And I think so often we get so fixated on, I got to find friends, I got to make friends, I got to love my spouse, I got to do this. And then we get our eyes off of Jesus. And because we've made, we've made the secondary things, the main thing, then it all gets jumbled and confused and messy and hard, then harder than it needs to be.

[Jenny Allen]

Well, it's one of the things I wrote about was you feel like you need to add this to your life, but the reality is this is in your life. Like, you just have to look around at who you're seeing. Anyway, that's the best community is the people that you're doing life with right beside you. As Hosanna gets older, you're going to have soccer or ballet, depending on her preference. I'm going to guess basketball.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I'm like, already started. Like, this is a basketball your daddy played.

[Jenny Allen]

Your mommy and I know she probably has four pairs of dunks that. Yes. So, you know, I think this is, you know, this is going to come even more with, with Hosanna. But you, everybody's around people. Your neighbors, your apartment complex, your workplace, your college campus. Like, everybody's around people. It's looking for and being intentional with the relationships that are already in your life. But I want to just real quickly, before we go into this deeper, just say theologically that you are created out of community.

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[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Of $45 for three month plan equivalent.

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[Madison Pruitt Trout]

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[Jenny Allen]

See full [e-mail] that father, son, Holy Spirit created man. It says, we let us create man in our image. He reveals his communal nature. His, his trinitarian form from Genesis where you see him creating mankind. And he built us to be communal. And we know this because the very first word spoken over Adam after he was created, it is not good for man to be alone. He literally said this is not good until there was a woman. And yes, of course that is preached over and over again about marriage. But at the end of the day, it's just not good for us to be alone like that. That is, that is a statement of humanity. And yet we are a generation who chooses to be alone. And so you are not adding something to your life, you're looking for it within your life. And you're also recognizing, I don't need community. I am communal. Even the introverts, even the people that are unlike you and I that, that think, no, no, no, not me. You are communal. Your way of doing community is maybe in a smaller setting, it's in a corner with one person rather than a hundred. But every introvert I interviewed for this and talked to about this all said the same thing. I need People, I just need them in the right environment and in the right way. So I do believe that that's great. That I think in some ways that's better. So you think there's going to be a village around you. 150 people that you see throughout your a month. You know that you just run into a church that you run into in your neighborhood. And that village within that village should be deeper relationships and friendships. A circle of that. That might be around 40, 50. These are the people that you might take a meal to if you found out they got really bad news or lost a loved one. And then in that, you really only have capacity for about two to three daily friends. People that keep up with everything.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Jenny Allen]

So that circle is small. Oftentimes people will try to make that circle. 5, 6, 7, 8 people. Oftentimes people try to make that circle. One person, and that always breaks apart. You've got to have two to three people in that circle. And candidly, that circle is going to possibly change. Even that inner circle with the 40, 30 people on the outside of that, that might come in at different points and become better friends for different reasons.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Right.

[Jenny Allen]

And that's okay. You know, it's okay. But you do need those two to three, I would say three people in that inner circle.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And should that be in person? Should that be in the same city?

[Jenny Allen]

That is a great question. I would say those. You need the two to three in the same city for the purpose that. There are times I say one. One goal I have when I moved to Dallas was five friends in five miles. Now you know me. I mean, you're one of my favorite humans on Earth. And we are going to stay in each other's lives for the rest of our lives and we will feel like family for the rest of our lives. I have those people on Earth that are that way. To me, they're a priority. To me. It doesn't matter that we live in the same town. You're going to have that too. But what I needed when I moved here, because I had. I had lots of people and I had lots of people I was close to and I had lots of people that knew me well and I shared my life with and I felt known by them. But when I got to Dallas, I was basically starting over with friendship. And so I really prayed for five friends in five miles. And I'm so glad I did because I could have. I travel so much, we see each other. I could have depended on all the relationships I have out there, because I do see Them, it's, it's. While we're not in the same town, we do see each other.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Jenny Allen]

But what I didn't even know completely that I needed was I need to call my best friends Lindsay and Ashley at 3pm and say, can y'all get together tonight? Can I see you in three hours? I'm reeling. I got news today. Not even big news, just. I mean I'm anxious and I, I need to talk through this. I just found out this is happening and it's. It throwing me for a curveball or this pressure is I'm not sleeping right now. Could y'all get together that 911 last minute, all our kids are taken care of for a minute. We find an hour that has been life changing.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It's so true.

[Jenny Allen]

And I think you've got to work for that.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Your local community is so important. I mean, I just couldn't agree more with what you're saying of. I have so many friends in so many different places and I'm so grateful for those friendships. But when I'm struggling and when I'm going through it and when I'm up at 3am and my baby won't go to sleep and I'm like spiraling and I'm having thoughts that I shouldn't be having about my life and everything, it's like I gotta have a friend that is there that I can be like, can we meet up tomorrow and let, can I confess to you and have you pray over me? Like we, we gotta have those local people. Because even though I love my friends that are states away, it's like I gotta, we gotta do some face to face and, and it's that local, through the local church and also local community is so, so important.

[Jenny Allen]

Well, let me read to you. I mean, let me just, let's throw some Bible in here because I, I do think this vision that the scriptures give us for the way we do life, it. It kind of has to be in person. So the way he he many, many writers throughout Scripture. But God lays out all of this is through many statements that say one another. And so let me just read you some. These are Colossians, Mark, Ephesians, these are all, all from different books, but admonish one another, be at peace with one another, forgive one another, be of the same mind toward one another, give preference to one another, bear one another's burdens, be subject to one another, love one another, confess your sins to one another. This is something most all of this is happening in person. Not that it can't but I wanna. I rewrote these because I think they sound lovely and I think they sound poetic.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I love when you do this, but I. I really.

[Jenny Allen]

I think we've missed that. This is really messy and hard and. So what do those verses look like? I just rewrote each of them of how it actually plays out. Look at your friend and tell them what they are doing wrong. Admonish one another. Fun love. So completely you're willing to be rejected by someone.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Jenny Allen]

When someone hurts you, let it go. When you mess up and feel so ashamed you want to hide, go instead and say it out loud to someone that might use it against you. Because that's always a risk. When someone is selfish and horrible to you, give them preferential treatment. When you feel misunderstood, don't run. And when your person is crying on the bathroom floor, get on the floor and cry with them. And I think that's one of the hardest ones for me and you, that crying with someone. Letting call. This is what I called it in the book. Calling someone mid cry, that's hard.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, I'm.

[Jenny Allen]

I was not good at that. I. I'm still not. It doesn't come naturally, but I've seen the value in it.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yes.

[Jenny Allen]

So I would normally break down, and then the next day, or maybe even a week later, I would tell my.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Friends, this is so me. And I've talked about it on the podcast.

[Jenny Allen]

And then I would clean it up, and I would say, like, I was walking through something hard. And as you can imagine, was my.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Was.

[Jenny Allen]

My good friends wanted to strangle my neck. And they. You know, I was thinking, I'm not. I'm not gonna burden them with this. Like, I don't wanna take up all the oxygen in the room. I was thinking noble thoughts about it. They felt unloved. They felt like I didn't trust them. Um, and I was trying to navigate something alone. And it is not good for us to be alone. And so in the moments I most needed people, I was waiting till I was okay to bring them in.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I love that you said, like, we were not made to do life alone. We should not be navigating things alone. Because I do. I think so often we almost trust ourselves too much to, like, make big decisions or to navigate things on our own. And we should trust ourselves the least, especially in the face of big decisions.

[Jenny Allen]

Anxiety, right? Because sadness. Because you're so attached to it. Yes.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And you can't see your own blind spots. And so we need to have people that in any decision or with anything we're feet like we can have. And. And I love that you said two to three people, because it's not relying on one person to be everything for you.

[Jenny Allen]

That's right.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And it's also not opening up to 20 different people and getting 20 different opinions. It's find your two to three people that are on the same level as you, spiritually, same gender, and. And confess to those people, have them hold you accountable, say the hard things. That's so, so important. One thing I want to touch on that when I look back on my life and a question that I feel like is relatable to a lot of people, especially for those who would call themselves, you know, Christians, is what is the difference between solitude that is healing.

[Jenny Allen]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And loneliness that is hurtful? Because I do think that there's a difference between the two. When sometimes there's a season where God will kind of start removing some people from our life, and it can feel. It can feel lonely, but it's really a season of solitude for the Lord to say, hey, your. Your eyes are in many places. You're listening to many voices, and I need you to be. I need your eyes to be back on me. I need you to listen to my voice. It doesn't mean we cut out everyone in our life, but he'll bring us to this place of solitude to hear from him, to be with him, versus staying there and allowing ourselves to, like, stay in this place of, like, loneliness that then goes on to really hurt us.

[Jenny Allen]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Because I've had that season in my life where I. I look back and I feel that the Lord took me to a season of solitude to really, like, figure out who I was, to, like, really figure out what I believed about Him. And I. I needed that season to not. I really cared about what a lot of other people thought, especially my mom. My mom was, for me, like a very sounding voice of wisdom and in a way, a huge tool that the Holy Spirit used in my life to show me what I should do and where I should go and who I should include in my life and what decisions I should make. And I had to get to a place where I was like, man, I need to know the Holy Spirit for myself. You know, I need to figure out who I am with the Lord by myself. But I couldn't stay there. It was like, okay, but now what you're saying, I'm not made to do life alone. So now that I figured this, you know, not figured it out with the Lord, but, like, I know who God is To me. So now I need to go and join a small group at my church, and I need to go and invite other people into my. My life and into the things that I'm feeling. And so, yeah, what would. What would you say about solitude and longing to the difference?

[Jenny Allen]

That's a great question. And I don't think enough people ask that or think about it because they just think of solitude either as watching Netflix or they don't think of it as a spiritual practice. Solitude is actually a spiritual practice. You could read a book that I read years ago by Richard Foster called Spiritual Disciplines, and you would see that he lays out meditation and solitude and silence. These are each individually spiritual practices. Just like fasting, just like prayer, just like Bible reading. These, you know, and I loved reading that when I was younger because I was like, oh, nobody taught me these, you know, and so I like to view it that way, that when you see it as a spiritual practice, then that's. That's a choice, and that's a productive choice that you're making. You're saying, you know, I hear two different things, though, that you're saying, and I think they're both important. One is I want to hear from God. And to do that, we often do that alone.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Jenny Allen]

And I, with our Bibles, in prayer, often I hear the Lord's voice best in the middle of the night, you know, when, unfortunately, when no one, there's no noise. And. And so, yeah, to me, I think what you're speaking of in that moment is solitude as a spiritual practice. And I think we have to choose that. That has to involve, you know, shoving our phone long enough to let our nervous system rest, long enough to let our brains rest. ADD is the diagnosis of the world right now because of our phones. And so to be able to hear from God, to be able to take scripture into that is that all is a practice that you have to practice to get good at, you know, so that's why I like calling them spiritual practices. I think they take practice.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, totally.

[Jenny Allen]

I used to think I. I needed to be good at these things. And I'm like, no, nobody's good at these things. These are. You have to. You have to learn them. But then you mentioned something else about your mom. And I think it's so important because I've been on the other side of that. Me, you know, me and my girls really, really close to. And so I remember Kate saying to me, like, hey, I need to find my own voice, and I need to hear from God on my own. And I just always come to you because it's easier. And so I. I lived on the other side of that.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Jenny Allen]

And I would just say, what wisdom on my daughter's part, on your part, to know I. I can't rely only on other humans for my relationship with God. I just think that that borders, you know, And I think we're quick to say words like codependency. We're quick to say. And I don't think we fully understand what that means. And then we get guarded with relationships that are actually for our good. So, you know, I. I've watched my daughter have, similar to the spiritual practice, have to practice not coming to me with every little thing now, going more to her husband, but also sometimes not going to him, but going to the Lord. Yeah, I'm watching her navigate all of that. But I also want you to imagine, I want you to lift up and see God watching you and your mother, who I love like family as well. And I respect so much these two women that he gave to each other that love God so much. And I want you to imagine that he would ever be disappointed that you run to your mom and ask her for something. I don't think he would be. I also think we quickly put a label on something that is for our good. And so again, do we have to navigate when we get married, like depending more on a husband, do we have to navigate this idea of how do we go to God first and not to everybody? Yeah. But I think he also delights in these relationships and their gifts from Him. And if you look back historically, which I did for this book, I looked back at every generation just so I wasn't saying something that wasn't true. And there is a document I could never show online or put in a graph. I could never. It is so physically long, but it is. All of the generations of people like that they know about.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Jenny Allen]

And you go back and you look at this huge, huge triangle that's just getting bigger and bigger. Right. You know, and through the years, bigger than more population than there's ever been today. And you see these people groups, okay. All throughout all of history since creation. And every one of them depended on each other in. Because to live, to survive. And throughout all of history, until the industrial revolution and until the technological revolution.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Jenny Allen]

So you're looking at every people group that's ever lived. You never moved further than 20 miles from your. Where you were born.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So crazy.

[Jenny Allen]

You never visited more than 20 miles from where you were born. This is all mankind we have really messed up. Our view of family, our view of friendship, our view of adventure. Let's go. Move here and move here. We were meant, we were built to live with people forever. Known, loved, cared for in our death, cared for in our child rearing together. Like in biblical times, you know, Peter's mother in law was in the house like this is, this is how it's done. Like you. So I guess I want to say don't be too hard on yourself and remember this. Family, friends that love God, these aren't something to build walls between. And again, I just think we're such a boundary.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah. Oh, totally.

[Jenny Allen]

Culture. And I'm not saying they're not needed. We are not talking about toxic stuff, right. We're talking about healthy godly relationships, toxic needs, a different talk. And maybe we need to go there. But I just, I. I think we, we get scared of codependency. We get scared of. I don't know. And I think we overprotect sometimes when we really need each other and we have less of each other in our lives than any generations have had so wild before. In that wild.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It's so wild, it may. It makes complete sense because of just what especially technology does and social media does and all the things. But it is really crazy when you think about it like that.

[Jenny Allen]

Well, every culture before us, and Even today in 80% of the world depends on each other for agriculture. You have to, you have to work together to survive. You have to grow your food, you have to, you know, cook together. You've got a fire in the middle of the huts with, with no doors. Like that's how mo a lot of the world today lives. And so, you know, we, we really have are missing out. I remember when my pastor friend from Rwanda came to visit and he said, I feel sorry for you all. The more money you have, the bigger walls you build, the more money you have, the less you need each other.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Jenny Allen]

And he said that's even true in Africa. He said, in Rwanda, the rich people have walls and guard dogs like the rest of us are living in villages around fires. I mean, we're missing something.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So that's so good. I feel sorry for y'all. That's so good.

[Jenny Allen]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Because I think so often we're like, we're so chasing after the very thing that makes us feel so isolated, lonely and unsatisfied.

[Jenny Allen]

It's the truth. Like, if we can just all stop and realize the greatest gift in your life are the people. It is a relationship with God and a relationship with Other people. However, if you think of the most hurtful things in your life and the most difficult things in your life, it's people, people.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Amen.

[Jenny Allen]

So we have. We have a conundrum.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Jenny Allen]

And so we avoid the hard, but we're also avoiding the best parts of life.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Jenny Allen]

Name a time that your life changed, that your life was the happiest you've ever been, that your life was just your favorite moments and you're reliving up and you are alone. It didn't happen. It's the moment that you had a baby and Grant's beside you and your parents run in and scream and your sisters are there. It's the moments that you're together. It's the moments that you're building memories together. And instead of doing that, we're scrolling and looking at other people live their lives with each other. We're watching shows that make us feel good, like Gilmore Girls and Friends and all these shows. And what is it about? It's about community.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

We're watching people do this, and we're wanting it and we're envious of it, but we don't do anything about it.

[Jenny Allen]

And watch a show about it.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Right. Right. Okay, so good, because now I want to get practical. So for those who are listening and they're like, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Jenny Allen]

How.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

How do I do it? So what would you say to. How do you find your people? How do you find. How do you make friends in 2025 in an individualistic, socially connected world? But yet we're so isolated, lonely, and we desire a deep connection that we don't know how to find.

[Jenny Allen]

So let me tell you, you are going to do it awkwardly. You have to embrace how awkward this is. I can promise you, when my son sent out that invitation, right before he pushed Sin, he felt a little awkward. You know, he's asking people to dress up. It's just. He just felt a little awkward. When I asked that question last night at the dinner table, I felt a little awkward. Like, I. I think we have to do this. When you invite someone and they can't do it and you. Do I invite him again? Yeah, you invite them again and they can't do it. Then, yeah, you invite him again. Like, it's just the whole process of it is awkward. And so when you accept that and you go, okay, this isn't especially awkward for me. I. Maybe, maybe a few of you out there do have social challenges or disorders and those names have been given it. But I would say, I know. I know several people in my life that I would say it's the hardest for, but they have just worked harder at it than everybody else, and they're better at it for it. And so it just. Some of you might have to work harder. Your muscle may not be as strong as other people. You gotta. The way you grow a muscle is you work it out.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

You.

[Jenny Allen]

You do it. And so I think that I would just say do it awkwardly. Go first, text someone right now. Like, don't wait till later today. Pull over if you're driving and say, I need to hang out with you. I miss you. I need to share what's going on in my life. Like, send the vulnerable text and get it on the calendar. The other thing I would say is regular helps. So that's where a small group can come in handy. If you aren't a part of a church, go. Go to a local church. Don't watch church online, guys. Go to a local church. Walk up to somebody in a booth somewhere, walk up to somebody that looks like they've been there a minute and say, I need community. Do y'all have small groups? Do you have Sunday school? How can I get to know people here and then serve? Like, go sign up for nursery duty. Sign up to do. To be a part of the church, to actually be in it. And. And then I would just say, you know, you need something regular. My friends and I now are so good at this that. That we. We do see each other regularly, but we do have set every. Almost every week, every other week for couples, every other week for girls. And so it's just ends up almost every week that we see each other. And so even if all of us get busy, even if we are, you know, out of town, whatever that's on the calendar, we don't have to work to plan it. The problem so often you spend a month trying to get together and make a date work, right?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

So true.

[Jenny Allen]

And then you get to it and you can't do it for some reason.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I'll see you in a couple months. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jenny Allen]

So I said, that's why I like something regular. Even if it doesn't happen every week, it's on the calendar. I have another girlfriend that she met at Denny's, of all places. I was like, surely you can do better than Denny's. But. But anyway. But it was open, and it was open really early at like 5:30 in the morning. And that was what they have young kids. That was what worked for them. And so they were like the Denny's club. And every single Week on Tuesday at 5:30am they were there. And it's hard to find something that is a conflict at 5:30 except sleep. So, you know, you don't have an excuse. So I think we just. We've got to set those patterns in our life and be the ones that initiate and expect it to be awkward and. And keep doing it anyway.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah, it's so good. You have to put yourself out there and knowing that rejection could come, will come and will come, and you do it anyway. And, and, and then I also say, and then to go off of what you're saying that I so agree with is find a local church, get plugged in, join a small group. That is literally what changed my life. People look at my life and they're like, how do you have so many amazing friends? How do you do. I am a part of a local church.

[Jenny Allen]

How long did it take you? You just moved to Nashville? How long till you joined or until you. Like, this is my church. A month.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

We church hopped for a little bit and then I, I literally had to.

[Jenny Allen]

Be something like that.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I had a breakdown. I'm in tears with Grant and I was like, I can't do this. Like, I literally feel. I was feeling the weight of like, we're not connected. We're not connected. And every Sunday we're going to a different church and no one there knows us. And I'm feeling so drained by it and so unknown. Because in Waco, we were a part of Harris Creek and we knew everyone in Harris Creek. We were very plugged in. We were part of a community. We're very involved. And so when we moved to Nashville, I was like, we've got to find a local church.

[Jenny Allen]

So let me, let me just play out what just happened, what you just said. You said a month. Like, that was so long. Do you know there are people listening right now that their excuses. I just haven't found the right church yet. And it's been three years, right? So guys, you just pick one.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Pick.

[Jenny Allen]

You pick one.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

You do your best because no church is perfect. No, you're not perfect and people aren't perfect.

[Jenny Allen]

Right?

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

You just pick. You. You pick with biblically sound and then people that you think you can connect with. Yeah, it's like those were the literally the two things that for us, we were like, okay, is. Is it biblically sound teaching and are there people there that we could see ourselves doing life with? And that. That was the thing for us. And so we landed on way church and we, I mean, immediately we were like, Noah and Maddie, who were the head, we're like, hey, how can we, how can we get connected? Like, how can we get plugged in? How can we use the gifts God's given us to serve this church? And I think that's, that's what it's about. You're not just going to consume. You're going to get connected, actually connected, but then you're also going to serve. And I think so often we're just like waiting for people to connect with us and we're waiting for people to serve us, and then we're left discontent and we're left isolated and lonely. And you have to, like you're saying you have to be willing to initiate.

[Jenny Allen]

You had every excuse, though you had plenty of friends there. You were pregnant. You weren't in a house at first, you were an apartment. Like, you had every reason to wait a year or more.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah.

[Jenny Allen]

And you didn't. And I just respect it. I think, I think people need to hear that story because it's really rare, Maddie, just to be that committed to finding that church and jumping in. But guys, it is life changing.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

It's so life changing. I mean, that's, that's truly what changed my life in college, where you are surrounded by so many people.

[Jenny Allen]

Yeah.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And it, even though I was surrounded by so many people that I. I mean, college is like such a unique time because you're like, oh, you have roommates, you have people go at your class, you have all these things. But even with all of that that I had access to, I still felt so alone. And it wasn't until I got plugged into a small group, truly, that my life changed. And it was people finding people that were like minded, people that were spiritually like on the same page as me. And we could run the same. We could run the race together and like, we could hold each other up when the other person was down and weary. And that is what is so important. And one of the biggest things that people ask that I'm so intrigued to hear your answer is because this happens a lot. Whether you're in school, whether you're out of school. It doesn't matter what the season of life that you're in, honestly is, what do you do when you are walking with Jesus and you are chasing after the Lord in the purpose that he has for your life? What do you do when you're strong in your faith but your friends aren't? Or what do you do when you're passionate about living life as a Christian but you have friends that would call themselves Christian, but they don't live like Christians.

[Jenny Allen]

This is about to be controversial.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Good.

[Jenny Allen]

This is going to be confrontational to a lot of you. There are two types of people you need in your life. The people that you need and the people that need you. Most people do not fall in that cat those two categories.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Jenny Allen]

The people you need are the people that are going to help you grow. The people that challenge you, the people that are there for you, the people that make you better, and then the people that need you. And there's a lot of people around most of us that are not in either of those categories. And what that looks like is they may actually need your faith. They may act, but they don't act like it. And they're not going to grow. And they're stuck and they're not changing. And they're talking about the same problems today that they were talking about 10 years ago. And they are stuck and they don't want to change. And you got to be really honest. I don't need them. They're not helping me get better, and I'm not helping them get better. I don't know that this is a place I needed to be spending a lot of my time.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Right.

[Jenny Allen]

And that, I mean, I do believe in being honest with people. I'm pretty direct person. Like, I'll say anything pretty clearly. And at some point, I think you just say to those friends, like, listen, I'm not getting better. I'm not growing. I don't think you're growing either. I think you need to find people that help make you better. And I need to find people that help make me better. And you just say it, or you give it a chance and say, listen, can we stop gossiping? Can we just draw the line and stop? I mean, that is. Do you understand how unsafe gossipy friendships are? Let me just lay it out. You are tearing down your view of other people that have no chance to defend themselves, number one. Number two, you have to wonder every time you walk away from that person or that group what they're saying about you.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Exactly.

[Jenny Allen]

You will never feel safe. So gossip is so toxic. It's funny. In my office, it is like my top, top, top. I will fire you. Like, yeah, do not gossip. Because we will not have an environment that everybody feels unsafe. If gossip is the thing you think it's bonding. You think like, ah, we're just talking about them, that we would never. We are so loyal to each other. We would never talk about. But the reality is, yes, you would until, until you make them mad, until they hurt you. So I, I remember being in middle school, my mom would say, like, just tell them you're not going to do it. And I mean, I know this is, this is so childlike, but it's no different today. It's like, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to talk about them or go. What I say a lot of times is go tell them that. Go, go. They would receive that. Now, I don't know if they would or not, but, but that's the right thing to do. Like if you're wounded, if you're hurt, if you think they're in sin, if you think they're wrong, go tell them.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Right?

[Jenny Allen]

That's what I say. That's my way of interrupting it because they don't want to do that. And, and then it shuts it down. So that's, that's something we gotta work on. But people that you need and people that need you, and if they're not in one of those categories, I don't have time. Yeah, I just don't have time. I am on a mission. I want everyone to know and love Jesus.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And what do you mean by people that need you?

[Jenny Allen]

People that need me. I can help make them better. I can invest in them. I can.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Like they're hungry.

[Jenny Allen]

Let's go to our relationship. I knew right away, our first time sitting down, you wanted to grow, you wanted to be honest, you wanted to share what was really going on. You wanted me to speak into it. I could see like this was a good use of time. But if all my time was taken gossiping with other moms about who knows what, I don't have time to sit down with you. I don't have time to invest in anybody because all my margin is sucked up and it's not even giving me life and I walk away. So it's not people I need because I'm, I walk away depleted, I walk away discouraged. I walk away feeling insecure. And they don't need me, they don't want to grow. They're not, they're not sitting there open hearted and eager to, to think about how could I spend my life. Well, you know, so I think that's, that had that, that real clarified for me.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Right? And I think what's so important is to differentiate. Like if someone is not on the same level with you spiritually, then maybe that is an opportunity for you to pour into them and encourage them. As long as you're saying, like as long as they're hungry and open and willing to grow. But not viewing those people as like your go to people that you're asking advice and you're doing day to day life with. Absolutely. That had to be very clear.

[Jenny Allen]

Yes.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

And I think a lot of people are confused about that because it's like, oh, well, aren't we, you know, like Jesus hung around sinners, like, aren't we made to like be on mission? Aren't we made to like help people? And it's like, yes, but Jesus, his 12 disciples were like doing ministry with him. And also Jesus is Jesus. So it's kind of hard to even like compare us to Jes. We're not Jesus, but he cho like he chose people who were on min mission and doing ministry with him. And so I think for us, like we have to have people that are like minded on mission, that we're doing life, that we're confiding in, that we're turning to counsel to and asking for their advice, letting them speak into us. But then you of course should have people in your life that don't really know Jesus and that you're pouring into and that you're encouraging. But they're not your people. They're not like you're full.

[Jenny Allen]

Because I just know so many people and the reason I, I talk about gossip, I just know so many people that do not become better. They don't. They, they, they become you. Honestly, there's a saying and I do not know who wrote it. Everywhere I look it says Anonymous. But I do, I do share it all the time. So someone else, it originates with someone else named Anonymous. I don't know. But they say this quote says 5 years from now you will be a direct result of the books you read and the people you spend time with.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Wow.

[Jenny Allen]

So be careful. So I would say yes, we got to be missional. We don't need to be held up in our little small groups and never taking the love of Jesus to people. But I would say the best way to do that is with a couple people that are like minded. So, so we do this. One of my girlfriends, she will invite like our whole neighborhood over to her backyard and we'll do it together. Like we'll, we'll engage and invite people in together. And so it's not just turning into something that is hurtful or gossipy or destructive. It's like we're all there to guard it and to be missional with it and to love people well. And ultimately we're not being weird about it. We're just friends. We're just having people over. But. But we're. We know we're on mission together. And that shift helps us be intentional and loving in a different way.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Because I've seen in my own life and my sisters and my husband, whenever we decided to go all in with our. With Jesus, we had to start distancing ourselves from certain friends. Absolutely would cause us to fall back into sin. That wasn't pushing our relationship with Jesus to greater heights and greater depths. And it was really hard. And it was really hard on the people too. Like, it. They had a really hard time with it. And I know for at least conversations I've had with my sisters and conversations that I've had with, with Grant, those friends can become bitter and say, like, oh, do you think you're holier than me? You think you're better than me? Like, oh, you don't now need me in your life anymore. And so what advice would you give to the person that is really scared to start distancing themselves from those certain friends that aren't pushing them closer to Jesus or that have already done that and they're reaping the just. They're getting the lashing out from the friends that they've started distancing themselves from.

[Jenny Allen]

I think you just say the truth. I think you say, I love you and I'm gonna always love you. And I. I'm trying to change my life. I mean, if you were an addict and for some of you, this is real. If you are an addict and all the people that you get drunk with all the time you're trying to change, hanging out with them every night and just trying not to drink, that's not gonna go well.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Right? So true.

[Jenny Allen]

And I think people get that on some level. And so I think the more direct you are and say, listen, I need some space. I have a friend that just had to do this with a group of people, and I need some space to reset my life and to get on a better track. I think most people, even if they don't have a relationship with Jesus, even if they don't have. It feels like the same convictions that you're having. They know on some level that what they're doing, even if it's as simple as gossip, isn't good. Like, they. There's some knowledge of, like, I'm not being a good influence. This isn't. This isn't a good environment. Like, I think they get it. And so I think you'd be super candid and call it out. I think people, they may be so angry. They may, you know, again. But Jesus said, like, in this world, you're gonna have trouble. They rejected me. They're gonna reject you. Like, there is. There is a little bit of just owning, like, if I'm gonna follow Jesus, I might lose friends, but I know when you've loved people. I've watched so many communities, whole communities change because one or two people became Christians and they distanced themselves. They changed their lives, and they came back and they were the best missionary to that group. So I do not think you write them off. I do not think you say forever. But if you need. I do think space is needed.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah. That's so good. That's so good. And I. That is a very practical. Like, some of you are listening and you're like, that's me. But I don't want to do it. I know God's tugging on your heart right now for a reason. Your heart is racing right now for a reason. You need to do it. And oftentimes the right thing is the hard thing, and so do the hard thing. But the Lord will bless you for it, even if it's just you feeling closure, even if it's just you receiving that peace you've been longing for. And in order for you to find those types of friends that are going to actually be able to push you in your faith. And I. What I've seen so often is that one of two things happens. Either when you have that really honest conversation, which I think we should all have, I think that's a beautiful answer. Because when you are just truthful, one of two things are going to happen. They're either going to be inspired by that, and they're going to check their hearts and they're going to say, you know what? Maybe, like, you went first. And so now I feel like I can go now I feel like I. Maybe I want to, you know, give this thing up. Maybe I want to get my life right. Maybe I want to try this Jesus thing out. And they become inspired by that step of faith or intimidation of. That's not where they're at. So then they feel a little, maybe judged or hurt or turned off by it, and they can lash out or they can, you know, make you feel bad for making that decision for yourself. And I think you knowing that going into the conversation is very helpful, knowing that it's probably going to be one of those two scenarios, but doing it anyways, because like you said, you know, if it happened to Jesus, it's gonna happen to you at some point, and at the same time, you never know that that honest conversation and then you choosing to live your life in holiness and on fire for Jesus could change someone else's eternity forever.

[Jenny Allen]

You know what I'm thinking right now as you're saying all this? This is you. You are so bold. You are so direct. And I imagine all of you that are listening are here because Maddie is living this resolute life that feels different. It feels unique to the world. It's. It's how this platform grew was because you stood up to the way everybody was doing things. And so if you're listening and you're like, I am so drawn to Maddie, and I don't know what it is, let me be clear. It is her deep love and trust in Jesus as her Lord and savior and how that has transformed her life and set her free from all of these things that typically entangle us in life. She's really free. Like, you're not. You're perceiving something that's true. And the way she got there is a million little decisions that were hard, that cost something, that were going upstream, that. That didn't feel like the easy way. And so I just. I mean, I just want to honor you, my friend, in front of everyone. And I also want to explain what you're experiencing with Maddie, because I think everybody sees something on you, something different. And that is the million little decisions that nobody saw. To break up with that boy. I loved him, y'all.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Jenny said, break up that relationship.

[Jenny Allen]

End it. I mean, I. I've been the voice of many hard things. Your mama, I know, has been the voice of many hard things, so. But you've done them. Like, where? And that again, back to finding your people, guys. Be that kind of person. Be teachable, be open hearted. Do. Do it. Don't just hear what you should do. Then go do it. Like, go do it. And that's what you did over and over again, Maddie. And so I think everybody listening probably has one hard thing that they should do today. Whether it's the brave thing to invite somebody just to go to coffee or on a walk and just trust again and open your heart up again. Or whether it's. I need to set a boundary with a friendship that is not good for me. I bet everybody here, all of us, could do something brave today.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Totally. Or confess that thing that you've been feeling or thinking that you haven't told anyone. And it's a consistent daily practice. Everything Jenny and I are talking about, like this just cuz she wrote a book on it. She's still practicing it.

[Jenny Allen]

Like, I did it this week.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

She literally just is talking about how yesterday you had to ask the awkward question at dinner that then went on to like, you walked away and you felt so much more connected. You felt seen, you felt loved. And so it's a daily practice. And that's what I've seen with really everything under this umbrella of faith and, and walking with Jesus is that it's a daily step, a walk with Jesus. You're moving forward and it takes continual steps. It's like you're never stagnant, you're never still, you're never walking back. It's like you're taking steps forward and it, and it's continual. And so it's a daily thing. Like I've been doing this thing all in with Jesus for, I don't know, 9, 10, 11 years, but I've known him my whole life. And it still is so hard for me sometimes to, to confess things that I'm feeling or thinking or being really honest with a friend or sending out the invitation and fearing I might get rejected. And I know a lot of you feel that way and a lot of you feel like you've, you know, you're the person in the friend group that's been, that's always left out or that's, you know, not always included. And I really do encourage you guys, like, if this is something that you've struggled with, you feel lonely, you struggle in friendships, you desire to get, to break free from this surface level friendship, to get deep, intimate community. I do encourage you to read this book, Find your People by Jenny, because she didn't just write this because she's great at writing books, she is great at writing books, but she's living it out. Like she believes this message and it's changed my life and so I know it'll change your life. So I'm gonna include the link for you guys to go and check it out. But I hope this, I know this conversation has helped a lot of people because, man, it's just what you're saying, it's God's design. Like, this is how God's designed it from the beginning. You turn to the very first book of the Bible and what you're saying is like, in the Garden of Eden, this was God's design for community. And we were made from community for community. It's so needed, it's so necessary, and it's who you are. And I love that that's what you brought it back to and ended and challenged everyone with. And also be it like don't just like hope for it for yourself but like go be that friend that's real. Be that friend for people and don't just wait for someone to be that friend for you. You go and be that for others. I'm so encouraged by you.

[Jenny Allen]

I love you.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

I love you so much. I'm so grateful and thank you for just your kind words. And yeah, and also like I love that you always ask me the hard questions, brought me to tears on my heart. You guys have probably seen me cry twice like since what in both times is in this season one in talking about my birth and this.

[Jenny Allen]

Wow.

[Madison Pruitt Trout]

Yeah. So clearly I need to work on that, you guys. But no, I am so grateful for you. I love you. Stay true is better because of you. I'm better because of you. And so as always, guys, be sure to stay you. Stay true. We love you.

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