Staying Alive with Jon Gabrus & Adam Pally

Episode: Ayahuasca & Alzheimer’s (w/ Elna Baker)

Date: December 11, 2025 | Podcast Network: SmartLess Media

Episode Overview

In this engaging, comedic, and deeply honest episode, Jon Gabrus and Adam Pally welcome author and storyteller Elna Baker for a candid conversation that weaves together the topics of psychedelics, trauma, personal healing, and wellness. While ostensibly themed around both ayahuasca and Alzheimer’s, the episode is less a medical deep-dive and more a raw, often hilarious journey through Elna’s transformation—from Mormonism and self-critique to self-discovery via psychedelics and therapy. The hosts and Elna open up about their health routines, struggles with food and body image, and the evolving role of drugs in wellness, revealing both the absurdities and breakthroughs of trying to “stay alive.”

Main Discussion Themes

• Elna’s departure from Mormonism & self-discovery
• Psychedelic therapies and their healing potential
• Reconstructive surgery & body image
• EMDR and trauma processing
• The difference between psychedelic substances: Ayahuasca, DMT, MDMA, Ketamine, Mushrooms
• Building new paths to wellness: hot yoga, self-help, therapy

Key Segments and Insights

1. Opening Banter, Eating and Hangovers (00:57–05:00)

• Gabrus and Pally joke about hangovers, eating habits, and the calamity of double Postmates dinners.
• They share how food choices and sleep relate to their sense of wellbeing.

“She put the chicken parm down. It’s like a doormat! Patrick, if we ate two of these, I’d have heartburn for a month.” — Jon Gabrus (01:36)

2. Introducing Elna Baker: From Mormon to Psychedelics (05:32–08:55)

• Hosts reveal that Elna was formerly Mormon and left at 28 to pursue a more authentic (and sexual) life.
• Discusses the oppressive stance of her former church regarding LGBTQ issues and how that played into her exit.

“I left initially to have sex. That was why…I was horny. That’s why I left.” — Elna Baker (07:31)

• Elna and the hosts hilariously recall how adolescent pursuits (sex, comedy) shaped their choices.

3. Falling Down the Wellness ‘Rabbit Hole’ (09:50–14:38)

• Elna recounts reading “150 to 200 self help books” and how wellness routines became a new obsession, self-soothing tool, and sometimes avoidance technique.
• She’s now rooted in daily hot yoga, empowered by trauma research (Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk).

“Self help became a way to avoid my thoughts…as long as I had a self help book on, I was like, I’m doing something with my life.” — Elna Baker (10:10)

• The hosts riff on overcrowded yoga studios and the joy (and awkwardness) of sweating it out among strangers.

4. Trauma, Weight Loss, and EMDR (14:08–22:20)

• Elna discusses dramatic weight loss, reconstructive surgeries, and the unanticipated problem of carrying emotional—and literal—scars.
• Introduces EMDR (trauma therapy using bilateral stimulation), which unearths previously unknown childhood trauma and provides an avenue for healing.

“No one has hurt me more than me…I have this sort of war I’ve been in against myself.” — Elna Baker (44:13)

• The hosts joke about therapy, cults, and the overabundance (and contradiction) of wellness advice.

5. Psychedelic Journeys: Frog Poison, Ayahuasca, DMT (22:07–47:40)

• Elna describes experimenting with many psychedelics to “unlock trauma”—including frog poison “Kambo” (burned into the skin), and the process of purging (vomiting toxins) afterwards.

“They burn…the only way to ingest the poison is to burn it into your flesh.” — Elna Baker (22:54)

• On ayahuasca: She explains the experiences (usually in the form of chocolate rather than tea) and the variety of “trips”—sometimes profound, sometimes uneventful.
• The metaphor of “fresh snow” over neural pathways is used to explain how psychedelics temporarily allow new behavioral patterns.

“You take these psychedelics and what happens is like a fresh sheet of snow has fallen over the whole thing…and that lasts for about six weeks.” — Elna Baker (45:01)

6. Danger of Overdoing, and Integration (40:00–49:20)

• Elna warns about the dangers of doing psychedelics too frequently; becoming “unfunny” and “abstract.”
• Stresses importance of integration—that is, making intentional life changes in the weeks following trips, rather than seeking constant “hits” of transformation.
• Describes her most recent, powerful DMT trip (non-visual, highly emotional), which felt like a physical exorcism of shame and cultural “poison.”

“Only the body. Never the mind, only the body. And my body just like…I just started like writhing and then I like started making myself vomit. And then I let out this like insane…most beautiful sound…and this black trail of soot flew out of my mouth.” — Elna Baker (54:03)

7. Therapy, Safety, Picking Substances (56:22–59:22)

• MDMA and ketamine are discussed as useful, accessible starting points for therapeutic psychedelic journeys.
• Elna’s personal ranking for therapeutic help: DMT, then MDMA.
• Pally and Gabrus reflect on how Elna’s attitude reframes the “escape” narrative around drugs—as instead being an “entry” into real healing.

“You’re not using the chemicals as an escape…you’re using it as an entry. And I feel like that’s really brave.” — Adam Pally (59:04)

8. Comic Relief: “The Sandwich Story” and Personal Anecdotes (60:25–65:16)

• Gabrus closes with a classic story about drunkenly making and then wearing a Dagwood sandwich, aided by Elna for This American Life.
• The story highlights generational differences, family quirks, and body-based shame—winding the episode back to its themes of food, family, and learning to treat oneself kinder (and funnier).

“On my chest, spackled to me with mayo and mustard, is a fucking enormous like Dagwood sandwich with one bite taken out of it.” — Jon Gabrus (63:01)

Notable Quotes

• “I think I left initially to have sex. That was why…I was horny. That’s why I left.” — Elna Baker (07:31)
• "Self help became a way to avoid my thoughts…as long as I had a self help book on, I was like, I’m doing something with my life.” — Elna Baker (10:10)
• “No one has hurt me more than me…I have this sort of war I’ve been in against myself.” — Elna Baker (44:13)
• “You take these psychedelics and what happens is like a fresh sheet of snow has fallen over the whole thing…and that lasts for about six weeks.” — Elna Baker (45:01)
• “Only the body. Never the mind, only the body.” — Elna Baker, DMT revelation (54:03)
• “You’re not using the chemicals as an escape…you’re using it as an entry. And I feel like that’s really brave.” — Adam Pally (59:04)

Memorable & Impactful Moments

• Heartfelt Vulnerability: Elna’s honest self-assessment of chasing happiness through weight loss, surgery, and self-help books, only to realize trauma was at the root.
• Psychedelic Storytelling: Detailed, visceral accounts of both frog poison and ayahuasca journeys, blending humor and awe.
• Comic Chemistry: Hosts’ irreverent asides on cults, cafes, and bodily mishaps keep the tone mischievous and accessible.
• Therapy Reframed: Elna’s use of metaphors (“fresh snow”; “the war ends now”) brings home the deep healing possible with psychedelics—when combined with intention and integration.

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Leaving Mormonism & Identity: 06:05 – 08:55
• Self-Help Book Frenzy & Yoga: 09:50 – 11:25
• Weight Loss, Surgeries, & Trauma: 14:08 – 15:14
• Experiencing EMDR: 15:14 – 22:20
• Frog Poison / Kambo: 22:29 – 26:39
• Ayahuasca Experiences: 32:37 – 47:09
• DMT Trip & Exorcism-like Release: 52:27 – 54:34
• MDMA/Ketamine & Best Psychedelics for Therapy: 56:22 – 58:51
• The Iconic Sandwich Story: 60:25 – 64:17

Conclusion

This episode is a standout for its honesty, humor, and fearless discussion of unconventional healing. Elna Baker’s journey is as inspirational as it is relatable—framed by the comedic and searching perspectives of Gabrus and Pally. Listeners leave with a fresh understanding of psychedelic therapy’s potential, the limits of self-help, and the ongoing quest to treat oneself with more curiosity and kindness.

No medical advice is dispensed—always consult a physician before exploring psychedelics or intensive wellness practices. For those seeking more, Elna’s upcoming book promises an even deeper dive into these themes.