Cards & Climbing (w/ Nelson Dellis)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Staying Alive with Jon Gabrus & Adam Pally
Episode: Cards & Climbing (w/ Nelson Dellis)
Release Date: August 7, 2025

---

Introduction to Nelson Dellis

In this episode of Staying Alive, hosts Jon Gabrus and Adam Pally welcome Nelson Dellis, a six-time memory champion of the United States and a self-proclaimed world champion. Nelson brings a unique blend of expertise in memory techniques and extreme physical challenges, notably his multiple attempts to summit Mount Everest. The conversation delves into Nelson's journey, his motivations, and the intersection of mental and physical health.

Personal Journey and Motivation

Nelson shares the profound personal motivation behind his dedication to memory championships and mountaineering. Inspired by his grandmother's battle with Alzheimer's disease, Nelson founded Climb for Memory, a nonprofit organization aimed at raising awareness and funds for Alzheimer's research.

Nelson Dellis [05:29]: “My grandmother was going through Alzheimer's, losing a lot of her memories and eventually passed away from it. That was a big catalyst for me to study memory.”

His commitment extends beyond mental prowess; Nelson's physical endeavors, like attempting Everest, are intertwined with his mission to support Alzheimer's research.

Memory Techniques and Training

The discussion shifts to Nelson's approach to becoming a memory champion. Contrary to popular belief, Nelson describes his memory as average until he consciously trained it using ancient mnemonic techniques.

Nelson Dellis [05:29]: “I've always had an average memory, but I didn't realize I could harness and train it until I delved into memory competitions.”

He emphasizes the importance of making the mind uncomfortable by constantly seeking new challenges, such as learning new languages or memorizing complex information under constraints. This active mental engagement is crucial for cognitive longevity.

Nelson Dellis [09:08]: “It's about tapping into your senses—not just visualizing, but what something felt like or sounded like. That sensory engagement makes memories more robust.”

Card Counting and Blackjack

Nelson transitions into discussing his expertise in card counting, a skill that complements his memory training. He explains the basics of the Plus/Minus System, where cards are assigned values to determine the statistical advantage in blackjack.

Nelson Dellis [34:13]: “You keep a running count by adding or subtracting values based on the cards that come out. This helps you gauge when the deck is favorable.”

Jon and Adam humorously explore the practicalities of card counting, from maintaining a running count without detection to the psychological aspects of staying inconspicuous at the blackjack table.

Jon Gabrus [34:20]: “So if I was sitting next to you, would I just copy your bets?”

Nelson clarifies that successful card counting isn't just about memorizing cards but also about integrating the technique seamlessly into gameplay without arousing suspicion.

Nelson Dellis [36:34]: “It's not that hard to keep the basic count, but the challenge is maintaining your composure and appearing natural at the table.”

Climbing Everest and Physical Training

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Nelson's mountaineering pursuits. He recounts his four attempts to summit Everest, detailing the physical and mental rigors involved.

Nelson Dellis [43:40]: “Every expedition tests you beyond your limits. It's not just about physical strength but also mental resilience.”

Nelson discusses the specialized training required, including endurance exercises, altitude acclimatization, and the importance of a balanced diet to maintain energy reserves.

Nelson Dellis [47:36]: “I switch my training to longer, slower cardio sessions and focus on strength training for my legs. Muscle mass needs to be optimized for oxygen efficiency at high altitudes.”

He also touches upon the logistical challenges, such as managing waste and the camaraderie among climbers.

Nelson Dellis [53:45]: “At base camp, it's a mix of basic accommodations and essential facilities. The experience fosters a unique bond among the team.”

Charity Work for Alzheimer's

Nelson intertwines his mountaineering with his charitable efforts, leveraging his climbs to support Climb for Memory. Each expedition serves as both a personal challenge and a fundraising initiative, channeling his achievements towards combating Alzheimer's.

Nelson Dellis [51:33]: “My climbs are not just personal milestones but also opportunities to raise awareness and funds for Alzheimer's research.”

Jon and Adam commend Nelson's dedication, recognizing the dual impact of his endeavors on both personal growth and societal benefit.

Adam Pally [52:22]: “You've turned these challenges into a business that supports a noble cause. That's truly inspiring.”

Health and Wellness Tips

Towards the end of the conversation, Nelson outlines the four pillars of health that he adheres to, which have contributed to his mental and physical well-being:

1. Mental Activity: Continuous engagement through memory training and challenging mental exercises.
2. Physical Activity: Regular exercise tailored to support both memory and physical endurance.
3. Balanced Diet: Cutting out processed foods and sugars, maintaining fat reserves for energy during climbs.
4. Social Engagement: Maintaining strong social connections to support mental health and provide a support system.

Nelson Dellis [62:34]: “I’ve narrowed it down to four pillars of health: mental activity, physical activity, diet, and social engagement. These are key to maintaining cognitive and physical health.”

Jon and Adam discuss the practical applications of these pillars, relating them to their own lives and encouraging listeners to adopt similar habits for improved longevity and wellness.

Notable Quotes

• Nelson Dellis [05:29]: “My grandmother was going through Alzheimer's, losing a lot of her memories and eventually passed away from it. That was a big catalyst for me to study memory.”
• Nelson Dellis [09:08]: “It's about tapping into your senses—not just visualizing, but what something felt like or sounded like. That sensory engagement makes memories more robust.”
• Nelson Dellis [34:13]: “You keep a running count by adding or subtracting values based on the cards that come out. This helps you gauge when the deck is favorable.”
• Nelson Dellis [36:34]: “It's not that hard to keep the basic count, but the challenge is maintaining your composure and appearing natural at the table.”
• Nelson Dellis [43:40]: “Every expedition tests you beyond your limits. It's not just about physical strength but also mental resilience.”
• Nelson Dellis [62:34]: “I’ve narrowed it down to four pillars of health: mental activity, physical activity, diet, and social engagement. These are key to maintaining cognitive and physical health.”

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Jon and Adam expressing their admiration for Nelson's multifaceted talents and relentless pursuit of excellence both mentally and physically. They highlight the importance of balancing diverse interests and maintaining a healthy lifestyle as outlined by their guest.

Adam Pally [73:40]: “That conversation with Nelson was awesome. He's a banger party guest for at least an hour.”

Nelson Dellis leaves listeners with actionable insights on enhancing memory, maintaining physical health, and the significance of social connections in overall wellness.

---

Note: All timestamps correspond to the provided transcript and indicate where notable discussions and quotes occur within the episode.

Transcript

[John Gabris]

Smart. Bless me. Sorry. So my sister played, I think it was kickball. Kickball with your wife? Yeah, my sister was. Is an amazing athlete. And like when, when we grew up and she became an adult and like sports were, it's like, you know, that falls away. It really bugged her. It really. And. And so that's what she. So she would do all those things. She would play like kickball, rugby, softball.

[Adam Pally]

And then that's why your wife remembered her because she was an absolute fun.

[John Gabris]

She was a beast.

[Nelson Dulles]

No, the funny thing is, I think is she remembered because you were, I think, starting to. You had. You were an actor. You're an actor.

[John Gabris]

I. I am an actor, yes.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah. So I think that was a conversation.

[Adam Pally]

My brother is a little famous. And kick the ball.

[John Gabris]

Like. Who is he? Pele. Adam Pele.

[Nelson Dulles]

That's right.

[Adam Pally]

That's how Bernard, you put the accent on the wall.

[John Gabris]

We're talking about soccer. We have an a crazy guest today.

[Adam Pally]

I almost forgot to come into this.

[John Gabris]

Then boy, do I have the guest for you.

[Adam Pally]

We do ham fisted setups to act natural even though we're recording these after the episode.

[John Gabris]

Then boy, do I have the guest for you. Nelson Dulles, a six time mem champion of the United States. Also he called himself a world champion. I don't consider you a memory champion of the world unless you beat other countries.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, sorry. Golden State Warriors.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, exactly. You got to beat the other countries. I don't know if there's someone in Kazakhstan's got an amazing.

[Adam Pally]

Philadelphia Eagles are lined up right now against the Japanese national football team to come claim that the Super Bowl. World super bowl champs. It's so mean because like America is the only country that can like field 11 players in football.

[John Gabris]

They don't have enough people. Oh man. Well, this dude is impressive.

[Adam Pally]

He has is nearly summited Everest.

[John Gabris]

Nearly summited Everest. We'll find out what that means. And in doing so, he does it not for profit, but for charity. For his Climb for Memory. Climb for Memory, which focuses. It's a nonprofit that aims to raise awareness and funds for Alzheimer's disease.

[Adam Pally]

Hell yeah. And these are the kind of plugs we are ready to do for our guests.

[John Gabris]

I will plug save us all, please. I don't know what I got coming.

[Adam Pally]

Down website don't do that. Who gives a about that? But let's raise money for Alzheimer's if anything. And. And us.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, please.

[Adam Pally]

Also, I'll donate a small portion of whatever I make to Alzheimer's as well.

[John Gabris]

When do I get to start claiming that I'm raising money for a charity, like, because I have kids.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, you're like, it's. I want to send three specific kids to college. I'm sending kids to college with my money.

[John Gabris]

All I have to do is like get a, put a picture of black and white and then like get some like in the arms of the angels. Like, do you want to help three specific Jewish kids go to private universities?

[Adam Pally]

This is like me with like an AI CGI fake baby that looks like me. It's like my son is. Needs to go to school, like, raise money. If I zoom in, he's got like a little beard.

[John Gabris]

All right, well, you guys, let's talk.

[Adam Pally]

To this giant freak.

[John Gabris]

Nelson Death. Dallas. So Nelson. Nelson, Dallas. We don't, we don't do like intros or anything and like, hi. But we'll do that after you're gone so that you don't listen. Listen to us. So everything has already been recorded.

[Adam Pally]

And don't worry, we'll remember this interview perfectly. We'll get in our memory palaces and wander down the hallway.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, but like straight off the bat, just like memory champion. You're a six time memory champion.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Like what? Take me through how you get to the first one.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

You know, like, and how that happens.

[Adam Pally]

Like, did you find you were. You already had a good memory and then were like, oh, I can harness this and compete? Or was it like you heard about competition? Be like, maybe I'm a good memory guy.

[Nelson Dulles]

Neither. Honestly. I've always had kind of like an average memory. Well, I guess.

[John Gabris]

Well, come on now.

[Nelson Dulles]

No, seriously. Seriously. Yeah, but I, I didn't even know.

[Adam Pally]

I got bit by a spider with a huge brain. And that's what it was about to get.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah. An elephant.

[Adam Pally]

Much better than when we re record that. Make sure I say the elephant joke.

[Nelson Dulles]

No. So I had never even heard about a memory competition. I mean, I'm not, I wasn't surprised that there were competitions for people with insane memories, but I was not going to be the guy going to that thing at the time. But my grandmother was going through Alzheimer's, losing a lot of her memories and eventually passed away from it. That was a big catalyst for me to study memory. And I read a bunch of books and learned about this competition. And when you do a little bit of deep diving into who wins these things, you realize that it's just everyday people who train their memories with techniques that are thousands of years old.

[John Gabris]

I just want to let you know that before you said everyday people, you gestured to John and I I also, but there was a moment where everyday people was not going to come out of your mouth. You were like, you could be an absolute idiot. And your hand gesture. We barely met Nelson.

[Adam Pally]

Like, I'm on board.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, but, but I'm, I didn't know that you could read the future too. Because you are right, we are idiots.

[Nelson Dulles]

No, no.

[Adam Pally]

And I'll put you one further. We could not become memories.

[Nelson Dulles]

But that's the thing. I, I, I, I disagree.

[John Gabris]

No, we could not. And maybe we could not. I'm an actor that has to memorize lines for a living. I could not do.

[Adam Pally]

I get paid so much money to memorize lines and I still buy and.

[John Gabris]

I'm horrible at it.

[Nelson Dulles]

But nobody's taught you, right?

[John Gabris]

Well, I mean I, I was, I'm a trained actor.

[Adam Pally]

Sure, but yet you, you don't get trained in memorization. You get trained in acting. Maybe we could come away with some.

[John Gabris]

Maybe they, and maybe they should do that in acting school, honest.

[Nelson Dulles]

But even think in school, like regular school growing up, you're tasked with memorizing all sorts of shit, right? Nobody ever gives you like a one on one, a one on one on how to access your memory or memorize more efficiently.

[John Gabris]

The closest thing I just give it to you. You're right. The closest I remember to that is like being taught mnemonic devices at some age. And I think it was from like.

[Adam Pally]

My dad like pemdas and shit like that.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. Or like that's a star. You know what? No, I think it's from guitar. Edgar Allen does good bitches easily. It was like the.

[Nelson Dulles]

Never heard that one. That was good.

[John Gabris]

I probably had a terrible looking back on it. I had a problematic guitar.

[Adam Pally]

Pretty sure my guitar teacher was a molester.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Here's, here's some crazy memory champion Stu. Aboard, about, above, across, after, against, along, among, around, at, before, behind, below, beneath, beside, between, beyond, by, down, during, except for from, in, into, like. That's like the first 30 of memorizing prepositions from seventh grade that I cannot get out of my head. Wow.

[Nelson Dulles]

How'd you memorize that?

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, I can't get it out of my head and I can remember the first three columns like now. Thirty years.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

Is that amazing though, that there's stuff in your brain from whoever did that to you?

[Adam Pally]

Right.

[Nelson Dulles]

In whatever way.

[Adam Pally]

I get like nearly suicidal when I'm bombing on set and can't memorize lines. But then my brain is like, you know, like rock the town without being seen. Ever seen a turtle get down? Slamming jam into the new sound. Your brain's like, why do you know the secret of the Ooze theme song?

[John Gabris]

I mean, that, that, I mean, that is a question that I don't, I don't expect you to help us answer today. Like, why can I remember the, like, third verse of Hook but not what street I used to live on? You know, Like, I, I, I don't think we'll get to the bottom of that, but, but I think it's still.

[Nelson Dulles]

I can probably shed some light on it, but I don't have the full answer. And I don't know if anybody ne.

[John Gabris]

What would be the light you shed? Like.

[Nelson Dulles]

Well, I mean, as we get deeper, you'll, It'll maybe make more sense, but I don't know, again, who your teacher was when they taught that perhaps there was some kind of song involved. Some.

[Adam Pally]

Yes.

[Nelson Dulles]

Cadence to it. Also being that age and the setting, you know, at that age, a lot more things you haven't experienced much. So it's. Everything seems brand new. Right? So it's a lot more imprintable. Things that we remember are things that are novel and new. And obviously at a younger age, that's almost every day more.

[Adam Pally]

And then I guess, like, in reference to song lyrics, the musicality of it can be, like, in your bones more than just like.

[John Gabris]

So is one of the ways that, I mean, we'll get into this too, but is one of your hacks of memorization like music?

[Nelson Dulles]

It can be, but it's not very practical for a competition, okay. Where you're trying to pull out a.

[Adam Pally]

Synth and you're like, put on a daft punk robot.

[Nelson Dulles]

Everybody's, like, trying to concentrate. Yeah, exactly.

[John Gabris]

But it's above that.

[Nelson Dulles]

I was gonna say, it's, it's maybe not so much the music is very powerful, but it's more about tapping into the senses Instead of just thinking about something as, like, what you see in your mind's eye to remember it. It's like, what it felt like, what it sounded like. If you can tap into those things, that's the hook to make something really memorable.

[Adam Pally]

Interesting. I remember in AP psych class in high school, we learned about sense memory. And it's like, we eventually got our psych, our psych teacher to admit that if you studied drunk for a test for four nights, your best bet would be to be drunk to take the test.

[Nelson Dulles]

I buy that.

[Adam Pally]

She was like, sure. She set it up. We were like, all right, so tell me if this is true.

[John Gabris]

And she was like, all right, Doc Brown.

[Adam Pally]

She's like you have a three in this class.

[Nelson Dulles]

It depends how drunk I think too, right?

[John Gabris]

Exactly.

[Unknown]

We can't gatekeep this any longer. The secret to adding easy, delicious protein to your meals is Gorton Seafood. That's right. America's oldest and most beloved frozen seafood brand is your protein. Go to with so many easy prep fish and shrimp products like their classic fish sticks or their new double Crunch shrimp. If you want to keep protein a part of your routine and enjoy restaurant quality at home, look for Gortons in the freezer aisle. Visit www.gortons.com to learn more, find a store and get recipe inspir.

[John Gabris]

So you become a memory champion and you're doing all this amazing work for Alzheimer's inspired by the death of your grandmother and including climbing Mount Everest to raise money. You're clearly yoked. Die heavens. What?

[Adam Pally]

He never forgets the gym, this guy.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, clearly that's true.

[Nelson Dulles]

It's a non negotiable.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. So what are you doing to stay alive, Nelson? Like what's, what's like a little bit of your everyday kind of secret to living a longer, better life as a memory expert?

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, I mean I think the, the big thing is keeping my brain active and there's many ways to do that. You know, it doesn't have to be just memorized, but that is what I enjoy and that's what I'm good at. But I'm always trying to find ways to make my mind uncomfortable because when it gets comfortable and things are easy on automation, I don't think I'm pushing myself, you know, and I think it's.

[Adam Pally]

Like adding new stimuli.

[Nelson Dulles]

Exactly. Whether it's learning a new skill or putting myself into some situation that's new to me, or memorizing something under a constraint of some sort, new language or whatever, all those things I think are the things that are going to carry me cognitively into a long life, you know.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, well, because that's. There is like some research now that, you know, continuing to learn will help with neuroplasticity and, and prevent some of these onsets, early onsets of dementia or help prevent dementia and, and Alzheimer's and stuff like that. Using your brain, treating like while we're on the health and wellness podcast, treating your brain like a muscle and working it out.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

So just in hearing that, because this is the. Where my brain goes when I hear something like that. What are things that could hurt your brain potentially that you steer clear of? Like what is something, you know, obviously, like, you know, minus. Minus marijuana Use. Because, like, that's obviously not giving that up. Anything. That's not. Yeah, that's not going anywhere. So let's take.

[Adam Pally]

I'd rather forget my low.

[John Gabris]

Let's take that out of the equation and then go from there. What?

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, I mean, there's all sorts of things, and it seems that Alzheimer's is. There's a lot environmentally that can lead to that. So things that we control in our life like diet, sleep, stress, lack of. Of exercise or minimal activity, just give.

[Adam Pally]

You quick four quick ohs in a row.

[Nelson Dulles]

Well, yeah, but I mean, listen, I'm not perfect either, right? I just had Shake Shack on the way over here because I'm like, I don't have that in my town.

[John Gabris]

Is that because you were coming to see us or like. No, no. Were you like, like it, man? I'm. I'm doing this podcast. I might as well say I forgot.

[Adam Pally]

The lunch I packed.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Pally]

I memorized all the state capital.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, no, but, you know, I think in moderation, everything is. Is. Is key there. And if you can balance that. Right. Like so. And again, I don't mean you have to go be a CrossFit athlete or run marathons and stuff for activity, but there were studies shown that if people just walked for 20 minutes, you know, three, four times a week versus those who weren't moving much at all, there was a significant difference in the size of their hippocampus, which is where a lot of the memory stuff happens.

[Adam Pally]

Mnemonic device from biology class. The reason you remember that hippocampus is where memories go is because you say, like, how could you ever forget a hippo on your campus? And then the other one is amygdala, and that's where your emotions are. And, you know, Amy can get emotional. Amy G. Dalla.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Adam Pally]

I like Dolla. Full name. These are all just coming back to me. I'm like a mentad.

[John Gabris]

It truly was. It truly was. That truly was one of your more autistic moments.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, I know.

[John Gabris]

Even the face you made after you did the first one, you looked around like, right? Everybody. It had like this veil of like.

[Adam Pally]

This is like what I'm like at parties too, so it's like a nightmare to be around me. X equals negative B squared minus, you know, it's quadratic equation. So maintaining a healthy lifestyle, because we talk a lot about how your exercise or physical taking care of yourself, nutrition wise, bounces back for mental health. And we're talking about mental health on, like an emotional stability route, but I Guess another way to look at mental health is brain capabilities.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. I mean, there's. There's like. It's a. Mental health is a. Is one of the few things that has, like, a real double meaning in wellness, where it's like mental health. Like your vibes.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

And then. And like, are the vibes good? It's like. Yes. Do you have brain cancer? Different. You know, there's a physical brain in there.

[Nelson Dulles]

In your brain.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, there's a different thing there. You know, so what are. What are some things? And this again, like, forgive us for being rudimentary, but we're not. We'd say it all the time. We're not experts. We don't know what we're talking about. And that's kind of why we're talking, because most. We find most podcasts to be like that. If you're white, they give you one. So what?

[Adam Pally]

To pretend you know everything about Canadian tariffs?

[John Gabris]

They gave us a wellness podcast. You know, it's like, makes sense. No, no joke. It's like giving Theo Von a political talk show.

[Adam Pally]

Wait, he has one in the morning.

[John Gabris]

Oh, forget it.

[Nelson Dulles]

Forget it. What?

[John Gabris]

What? I. I almost forgot what I was going to ask you, but. No, but that my. And forgive me for being rudimentary. What are some things that you do akin to the gym for your mental health? Like.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Do you have exercises? Are there things that. That. That.

[Adam Pally]

Are you a crossword sudoku? Make sure you do blank every day or something like that?

[Nelson Dulles]

That. Yes, a little bit. You know, I. I trained for, or I have trained for memory competition. So that was my daily sudoku or whatever. I would sit down and do these mental drills that mimicked what would be a memory competition. Right. Because I wanted to be ready for the day of, like, an athlete might be training whatever movements and skills that they need for their sport, but that was my mental training. I do different drills, yada, yada, yada. But that's not necessarily what I would recommend for everybody, because it's that a could be boring and.

[Adam Pally]

Right. And if you're not competing at the end, it is a little crazy to be like, look, I can memorize up to 300 women's games.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

They're like, okay, Dexter.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

That being said, I. I do love doing crosswords. I don't really care much for Sudoku. I have done them, but not a big deal for me. I do a lot of the New York Times little games, you know.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

And there's other things I like to do, you know, if I'm I have a tip to calculate. You know, I try to do it in my head. Not that I'm great at it, but I. I try to do these things that are challenging. Instead of.

[Adam Pally]

That's like. That's like the brain version of taking the stairs, right? Like, instead of taking the albaridy, take the stairs. But instead of using my phone to calculate, I do it in my head.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, yeah. Or when somebody gives me a name or their. Even their phone number I won't put into my phone, I'll be like, tell it to me. And they're usually like, wait, what do you mean? Like, you're gonna. He's like, yeah, yeah. Even if they don't know, I'm a memory champion. It's weird, right?

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

So that's usually. Really.

[John Gabris]

You're the waiter?

[Adam Pally]

I. Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

Oh, yeah.

[John Gabris]

You're the waiter. I hate. No, I got it. I got it.

[Nelson Dulles]

No, that bothers me, too.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

Even.

[Adam Pally]

Do we tell him he forgot the blue cheese?

[John Gabris]

Yeah. It's like, maybe he knows. Maybe he knows, and they're, like, making it in the back, and he said he had it.

[Adam Pally]

This is in Quick aside. In the first episode of our travel show, we go to Denver. The waiter comes over without a pan, and Adam goes, you're. You don't write stuff down. The guy's like, no. He's like, I hate that. And the guy's. And we kind of, like, bust his balls a little bit. Then the guy takes our order, leaves, and before the food comes, goes back, he goes, wait, did you guys say devil's on horseback? We're like, oh. He's like, absolutely vindicated in the moment.

[John Gabris]

It's just so simple. It's just like. It's. It's like a basketball player being like, I don't play with the ball. Well, it's also like, you know, like, the waiter's job they give you. It's not like it makes you feel.

[Adam Pally]

Better as a customer.

[John Gabris]

It's part of the. It's like a. It's like a scientist not looking in a microscope. It's like, no, I do. I do it. Bird's eye. Well, I judge it for boom. Cancer.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

That waiter thinks they're a memory champ. They like.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

They're like Caesar salad, chicken on the side. He's like, no, sir.

[John Gabris]

Anything but food.

[Nelson Dulles]

But in the. For example, with the numbers, like, there's not much. Like, yes, you could forget the number, But I think in the moment when you're exchanging the number, like, you can make something out of it. You Know, like, talk about the area code or be like, wait, I didn't get those last four digits. Is that, like a hard one to remember for you? Like, did you. Wow, how interesting. Or something, you know? And that in itself is a helpful exercise to help you remember the number. And again, if you don't, what I do is I'll remember it just enough until I get home, and then I'll put it in my phone or something like that. But it's just that little extra step to give my mind.

[Adam Pally]

You're speaking to something here. Because now I'm sure listeners or younger people are like, I've never memorized a phone number because I've always had a contact book in my hand. But. But all the phone numbers I can pull from my head are phone numbers I needed to know when I was 16. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, I know, like, my grandma's number, my best friend's number, my mom's work. My mom's old work number. I know all these numbers by heart, which now serve no purpose. No one even has those anymore.

[John Gabris]

Which. Which takes me to. I want to go through some of your records, okay. Because they're. They're really impressive, especially out of context.

[Adam Pally]

Not knowing what memory championship. This list is bananas.

[John Gabris]

This list is amazing. It's. So you memorize the Most names in 15 minutes. 235 names in 15 minutes.

[Nelson Dulles]

Correct.

[John Gabris]

You memorized the most words in 15. 255 words. Now, why are the words and names so close together? Like, is there a sequential order to those words? Or is it just like. How does that.

[Nelson Dulles]

What do you mean? Why are they so close together?

[John Gabris]

The count. Yeah. Because, like, it seems to me, like if I was just like, rattling off names, like, I could probably, you know, get.

[Nelson Dulles]

Do you know what I mean?

[Adam Pally]

Like, it seems like names would be harder because, like, with words, you can get like, some visuals of, like, oh, if Apple is next to something, I could, like, build a story in my head.

[John Gabris]

So. So 255. Like, that seems low to me. Is that not low? Like, why am I think of a.

[Nelson Dulles]

Grocery list item of 255?

[John Gabris]

Okay, never mind. I was thinking about it wrong.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, okay, right.

[Adam Pally]

Because if it was. If it was like a story of 255 words.

[John Gabris]

Because I think of it as an actor, right? And like, I've given. I've given monologues way longer than 255 words. Words. Yeah. You know, and so, like, in. In one piece and then given another one right after, like. Right, That's Nothing but the way you're describing it with no context. Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Pally]

It's just like, series of words.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

Random words, and they can be nouns, verbs, some. You don't even know what. You've never seen that word.

[John Gabris]

That's the list they give you. They give you a word that literally looks like. Like a. Like a dictionary. Like, it's like.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah. I mean, there are rules to how I think. It has to be, like, 60 nouns, 25 verbs, and stuff like that. So is there money in this competition?

[John Gabris]

Do you win money?

[Nelson Dulles]

Not really.

[John Gabris]

What do you mean, not really?

[Nelson Dulles]

Well, because I haven't won much from the competition, but.

[John Gabris]

What are you talking about?

[Nelson Dulles]

Let's see. I think the. The most I ever earned was a Monte Grappa pen, fountain pen.

[John Gabris]

Okay.

[Nelson Dulles]

Which I sold, which is worth five.

[John Gabris]

Grand for a pen, but I only.

[Nelson Dulles]

Got, like, 3,500 for it, so.

[Adam Pally]

Get them as a sponsor.

[John Gabris]

We love those pens. What are they called?

[Nelson Dulles]

It was basically like a Mont Blanc, but like a Fancy Brain Edition 1 Worthless to me.

[Adam Pally]

You're like, I don't write anything down. I memorize everything.

[John Gabris]

Give this to the waiter.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, here's your tip, pal.

[Adam Pally]

35 hundred pen. Start writing.

[Nelson Dulles]

You sell that. What else, though? I think of the world championships, I may have gotten a grand or something. There were bigger prices.

[John Gabris]

It's funny that this is what you.

[Adam Pally]

Can'T remember it sitting across from, like, a guy who wins all the championships, and he has, like, a Dale Earnhardt Earnhardt level sponsorship. And it says, like, ginkgo bilobo on one sleeve and, like, on the other. He's got all these, like, sponsors and PEDs that he's on. Do you take PEDs for memory chain?

[Nelson Dulles]

No.

[John Gabris]

No, you can't. What's P. What's a PD for memory loss.

[Nelson Dulles]

I don't think that's clear. Or, no, I think, like, maybe Adderall or something, but.

[John Gabris]

But, you know, Adderall and cocaine are not that different.

[Adam Pally]

That's why I've been. My experience.

[Nelson Dulles]

I've never experimented. But maybe other. There's no rules.

[John Gabris]

Oh, I'll tell you, I'm on both right now.

[Adam Pally]

I'm fucking focused, Nelson. Right?

[John Gabris]

As soon as you got that barbell out there. Can I get some cranks in?

[Unknown]

They say if you want to go fast, go alone. But if you want to go far, go together at Amica. And we know what matters most to.

[John Gabris]

You.

[Unknown]

And we work even harder to protect it together. As a mutual insurance company, we're built for our customers and prioritize your needs, Amica. Empathy is our best policy. Call 877-41-America for a free coverage review.

[Nelson Dulles]

Amazon Pharmacy presents Painful Thoughts. 20 more minutes to kill in the pharmacy before my prescription is ready. Maybe I'll grab some deeply discounted out of season Halloween candy. I never had a chocolate pumpkin with raisins before. Those were raisins, right? Next time use Amazon Pharmacy.

[John Gabris]

We deliver.

[Nelson Dulles]

And no, those were not raisins. Amazon Pharmacy Healthcare just got less painful.

[John Gabris]

Morning.

[Adam Pally]

One sausage McMuffin with egg, please.

[Unknown]

Okay, your total is.

[Nelson Dulles]

Wait.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Adam Pally]

Let's negotiate. How's about you throw in hash browns for a dollar?

[Unknown]

Well, yes, sir. That price is already a dollar.

[Adam Pally]

Take it or leave it.

[Unknown]

Take it, I guess. Buy one, add one for a dollar on sausage McMuffin with egg, hash browns and more with McValue. Most locations open 5am or earlier. Price and participation may vary. Limited time only. Valid for item of equal or lesser value.

[John Gabris]

You memorize the most digits in 30 minutes? 907 digits. How do you tell one digit? I mean, it's just fingers, right?

[Adam Pally]

Well, that's Ralph's index. Marty's middle. Dennis's pointer. Trisha's pinky. Trisha's pinky again. Gary's thumb.

[Nelson Dulles]

We need a. We need a math lesson here. Right. So that digits. Right. It counts as zero through nine.

[John Gabris]

Oh, okay. That. Well, the. To be fair, digits have two meanings.

[Nelson Dulles]

That's true.

[Adam Pally]

97. 97 digits is an insanely long number.

[John Gabris]

Different sequential. So it's like PI.

[Nelson Dulles]

I mean, PI keeps going, but yeah, it's a random number, essentially.

[Adam Pally]

So it's just a random series of digits. And then on a page. How does it work? You sit down with a page and everyone in the competition is three.

[Nelson Dulles]

One. Flip it over. You study it. You got five minutes. Oh, that one was 30 minutes. Sorry. 30 minutes, they take it away, you get a blank sheet, and then you have like an hour.

[John Gabris]

Remember any of them now?

[Nelson Dulles]

Oh, that one.

[John Gabris]

No.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, that was in 2000.

[John Gabris]

That's an interesting question because again, as an actor, it's so crazy to me that we both work with memory and. Well, you work with memory and I'm supposed to. You know what I mean? I can't remember anything.

[Adam Pally]

Can you remember, like, lines from.

[John Gabris]

No.

[Adam Pally]

No. Yeah.

[John Gabris]

I can't remember. And. And like, like, seriously, like, done. I've done a play with only two characters, two hours, and can't remember one line of it. Can't remember.

[Adam Pally]

You did it for like six months. Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Can't remember one line of it. But at the time, I could go out to dinner, not remember one. Like sit at dinner with you, not remember one line, not know anything. But once I walked into the theater and the dressing room, I knew exactly what to do and where everybody was. But now I can't remember a thing. Interesting.

[Adam Pally]

I wonder if you walked into. If someone walked made the set and maybe on the stage you might hit someone.

[John Gabris]

That sounds like I've had that nightmare.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. And the audience is all naked and it's just me, obviously. Hard.

[John Gabris]

No, I mean that's a different nightmare.

[Adam Pally]

Like bring out clubski.

[Nelson Dulles]

Where's my girl?

[Adam Pally]

Vita Salt and fuss. Get the bees out of there. And Thomas. John. He can't see without his glasses. I'm gonna fucking cry just remembering the movie.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, she loved it when people did that to her. What?

[Adam Pally]

That's why I did it to you.

[John Gabris]

So then you memorizing the most decks of playing cards in 30 minutes. What does that mean? The most decks? Like, take me through that.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah. So you have individual packs of cards that are shuffled just like your standard 52 cards. Like you can imagine a desk filled with separate decks and how many you can cram in your brain.

[John Gabris]

Okay, I'm boring. Do you play blackjack? I was just about to Do. You do.

[Nelson Dulles]

It's an independent thing.

[John Gabris]

But no, no, we'll talk about that now. Okay. You do play blackjack?

[Nelson Dulles]

Check. I do. Yeah. On. On a team.

[John Gabris]

Do they know On a team. What the is that?

[Nelson Dulles]

Well, it's like a card counting team.

[John Gabris]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. We found one.

[Adam Pally]

We're gambling into addicts. We are Vegas freaks, cuz. And we. We've invited two.

[John Gabris]

Let us into your club, man.

[Adam Pally]

No, we'd be the problem. That's big. You need us as like distractions.

[John Gabris]

No, you need distractions.

[Adam Pally]

You need.

[John Gabris]

You need flashers. You need people that go to the table. No, no, no. You need me to get naked and run through the blast.

[Nelson Dulles]

We need people like you. Because we would count the cards and we could just signal to you. Loud ass, obnoxious dudes who look like they have no idea what they're doing, but they're winning.

[John Gabris]

That's us. That's awesome, dude.

[Adam Pally]

This is what I'm talking about. I see this list, Memorize digits, words. I don't give a card about that. Okay, Cards.

[John Gabris]

Okay, so what do you play? One deck or six? Like what do you like the machine or you go to one machine? No machine. So two decks.

[Nelson Dulles]

Decks. You could do two decks, single deck. But then it gets hot pretty fast.

[John Gabris]

What do you mean by hot?

[Adam Pally]

Do you get caught faster? Because that's cold.

[Nelson Dulles]

No, no, no. I mean hot like. Or you get a lot of heat. Like. Like you'll get the.

[John Gabris]

The swings are so heat swings are rapid. Okay, got.

[Nelson Dulles]

And you would get. I mean, you can win or lose a shitload very fast. You can win a shitload and then they tell you.

[John Gabris]

Single deck is like. I've had the experience in single deck where I've gotten hot on the. On the multi. Gotten like on a six deck and gotten like. Like, boom. I've, like, now I'm cruising and I've gone and sat that at a single deck because I'm like, let's get some double ups. You know, let's start and lose everything in three hands.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, that's the problem. So we usually play like six, eight decks just because it's more of a slow burn. It's also more inconspicuous. You can, of course, kind of.

[John Gabris]

You ever walk in and they kick you out?

[Nelson Dulles]

Not yet. Not yet.

[John Gabris]

I'm surprised to blur your face and do the voice for this. Do you want us to. We.

[Adam Pally]

No, no.

[Nelson Dulles]

I don't care. I don't care.

[Adam Pally]

I'm part of her team.

[John Gabris]

I'm part of a block truck team, actually. I'm Nelson Dellis.

[Nelson Dulles]

I. I've never been to Everest. Different memory champion, actually.

[John Gabris]

I don't even remember how many times I've been to Everest, so it can't be me.

[Adam Pally]

This whole time, we knew we were talking to a memory expert, and we didn't even think about that.

[John Gabris]

That's how dumb we are.

[Adam Pally]

When it said car, when it said. I was like, oh, dude, you know what you should do for us is Cal. And he's like, I'm actually. I literally steps ahead.

[John Gabris]

I literally said, I'm bored in the middle of these ants. I was like. Once I. I realized. Okay, wait, so. Okay, so first of all, do you split on.

[Nelson Dulles]

Blackjack? Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. I mean, or other games too. Honestly, like, we're. We're crab heads. Like, because we like a commun. Obvious. We. We like a communal. There's nothing. There's nothing better than like an off hour hot run where the entire table is filled with random misfits and everybody's made money. And then it ends like, you know, that final thing ends after an hour, and everyone's like, everyone's a memory champ.

[Adam Pally]

But we fake throw dice very well.

[John Gabris]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Pally]

No, I've got to learn. Trust me, I practice.

[John Gabris]

No, I mean, dice throwing is something that I can't even. Because like the physical aspects of it, there's no way I'm ever going to get that. But, but I do think that I could learn how to remember or, or feel a groove, I guess. Like how does it work? Like.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, that's one of the. I was going to say this is common misconception. You know, they think I memorize cards really fast, that I should be a card counter. But no, in fact you just do.

[Adam Pally]

Like the plus or minus 10.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, you don't really need to memorize. Memorizing the actual details of the card isn't important now. Well, there are certain techniques that are a bit more advanced. If you memorize say the sequence of like if aces came out, you could remember where they roughly came out. Then in certain games when they're reshuffled, you can actually have an idea when they will come out again and bet accordingly. But that's.

[John Gabris]

How do you do. Do you time. Do you time the amount that the thing gets shuffled? Because like how do you know you.

[Nelson Dulles]

Have to find the right game, the right dealer who shuffles a certain way. So if, if you, when you have six decks, it takes a long time to shuffle. Unless they put it in the little thing, the auto shuffle. Yeah. And then it comes up with a new one. But there are some casinos where they hand shuffle it and it takes time. So some casinos don't like that because time is where you're going to like binions. We have to. There are some, some places off the.

[John Gabris]

Strip and the Orleans.

[Nelson Dulles]

No, he's not gonna.

[Adam Pally]

We can't, we can't. We can't get this guy busted.

[Nelson Dulles]

We need him.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, you're right. But anyway, so when blur the face again.

[Adam Pally]

Blur our faces. Leave his ass.

[John Gabris]

All of a sudden our voice changed in his. Is it like fire? Yeah, I don't. We don't want to bust you but. But it's. But, but, but the, the intricacies of it is so I'm just like endlessly for my whole life will be obsessed with.

[Adam Pally]

So it's kind of like cuz I read 21 or what the Kevin bring.

[John Gabris]

Down the house with the book.

[Adam Pally]

Then they made the movie.

[John Gabris]

The movie didn't cover it the way I wanted. I got more enjoyment out of the books. Gambler, gambling stuff, you know.

[Adam Pally]

And they do like that. You can tell like you rate the deck plus one or minus one depending on like the, the amount of 10 point cards.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah. You're doing a plus or minus one for each car that comes out and keeping A tally, essentially. And there's some other things you have to do to some little math in your head. It's. It's really not that hard, that part.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Nelson Dulles]

What's hard is putting it all together and being normal at the table and not looking, just being like, you know, you have to.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. I mean, that's acting, you know, like, you know, you're in bad shape when you. When you're in a scene and the other actor is going. And you're like, oh, boy. Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Sitting at a table and I'm just not. Another club soda. Ten easy.

[Nelson Dulles]

Exactly.

[John Gabris]

Just.

[Adam Pally]

No, no beer for me.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Ten. Four, six, seven. Seven, seven, four, four, seven.

[John Gabris]

So my, My. The other side of card counting is, is you don't car count. The other side of. Of blackjack and gambling is. And is. Is betting. And like, that is something that I really want to learn. How the mathematical. Like that.

[Adam Pally]

That's the time. Now's the time to triple up.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. That's when I get caught. Because that's how you make money. Right? Like there, There are. It's very hard to make money betting the same amount every hand for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours. So, like, you. You notice that aces have come out and you're like, oh, middle of the deck, three people playing a dealer has aces. I know. I'm like, I know kind of where I'm going to those aces are going to be. And I know also now that two aces are out of the thing, so there's less blackjack options in this deck. So it's like bets go down or bets go up accordingly. How do you do that with. With. With memorizing all that stuff?

[Nelson Dulles]

The, the ace sequencing, what you're talking about is, Is quite complicated. I've never been able to master that just because there's very few people who do it well. But in theory it is possible. But I think we should stay on the topic of actual car counting because I think that's the easiest to do and get the most bang for your buck. Like, if I were to actually go and try to do the ace sequencing thing, I'd spend so much time training it. It for minimal extra reward, you know.

[Adam Pally]

But this. The basic count carding. Card count carding. Oh, stroke. Anyone else smell toast? The basic card counting is like, okay, a six comes out in your head. That's a minus one or a plus one. Yeah, minus one, minus one. Then like so. And then a 10 comes out. That's a plus one.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Pally]

So the lower the number is in your head. The.

[John Gabris]

That's what.

[Nelson Dulles]

Sorry, sorry, we have it flipped around. It's the other way around.

[Adam Pally]

That's why I.

[Nelson Dulles]

Number is high.

[Adam Pally]

What, what. What you're hoping for for the layman is for the, for the rest of the deck to have a lot of tens and face cards in there. So that's what benefits a player. Yeah, it busts a dealer and benefits.

[Nelson Dulles]

And your number would be high. So if there's like +25 or something, you know, you'd say, okay, well, I've seen a lot of little cards, small cards that there's more at the rest of the deck, big cards that you could win potential blackjack or 20 or something like that. But you also have to take into account how many, many decks have been played. Right. Because if, if you're playing a six deck shoe and you've just started right, there's six decks left, essentially. So it runs a count really high. You know, it's.

[John Gabris]

It's harder.

[Nelson Dulles]

It's harder. Well, because there's a lot more to go so that it's a little more diluted, that high count.

[Adam Pally]

So if you have a high. If you have a high number and they're halfway through the deck and you're like, oh, this, this is a stopped pond now. I got this fish in a barrel.

[Nelson Dulles]

So you have. Yeah. So you have this running count which is just counting the cards plus 1, minus 1 0.

[Adam Pally]

I truly think I could do this.

[John Gabris]

I think you could too.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Think I could sit next to you.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. And just copy my.

[John Gabris]

And copy your bets.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Like if I'm there or some of my guys are there, we could just have signal signals.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

To increase your bet.

[John Gabris]

Because like I know how to play blackjack. So that, that's really. Like once the hand is there, I know what to do.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

You know, like there, you know, I know all the things in the book. I know when to be aggressive. I know when not to be aggressive. Like it's really just about like what the. What where the cards are coming, going in what order.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. Now you're just like, now's the time. Because you could still potentially lose with this. Yeah, sure. You're.

[Nelson Dulles]

You're hoping.

[Adam Pally]

Now that I'm betting 4x my regular bet, I'm hoping that I hit.

[John Gabris]

You know, you almost want, you almost want the dealer to get a blackjack on your lowest bet.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

You know, because then it's got. Because then there goes a blackjack, right?

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

There's eats and ace.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

But what I was going to say is, so once you have your running count, you divide by how many decks are left. So you have to do a little bit of math there, but you can train this. It's not that hard. And you get what's called a true count, which is a much more accurate count based on what's left and what the running count is. With that number, you have your basic strategy. So, like the table that they give you, that you study that says, hey, hit this on this situation, split on this, blah, blah, blah. There are certain thresholds. Like, say if the true count is plus four, and you have this situation means you do a different deviation from that basic strategy, which is more optimal given how hot the deck is becoming.

[John Gabris]

Right?

[Adam Pally]

Right.

[Nelson Dulles]

And then based on that true count as well, before every hand, that tells you basically how many times you amplify your. Your. Your betting unit. Right. So if I'm playing. Playing 100 minimum table or something. So my minimum Rockefeller.

[Adam Pally]

All right. It's a nice TV, guys.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Okay.

[Nelson Dulles]

Should we do the $1?

[John Gabris]

No, no, we can do five. $25 hand. Yeah, we'll do 20. Serious. We'll do 25. At Head Gum, we'd be doing five, believe me. Yeah, believe me, we've started. We'd be doing five.

[Nelson Dulles]

I don't know what head Gum is.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Another smaller podcast.

[John Gabris]

It used to be a podcast company.

[Adam Pally]

Now it's just an empty office space in Silver Lake.

[John Gabris]

But, like. But we're on serious. So we could do 25 hands.

[Nelson Dulles]

Perfect. Okay, so let's say that's what your unit is. You define that as, you know, you play the base just one unit every round, and then as that true count creeps up, up, maybe. And you have to have an upper limit, too. Some people don't. But it's good to have a good spread between the lowest and highest bet. You'll do. But let's say it's plus five, five units, right. So when your true count is plus five or even plus six, seven, you're. You got five chips there. Five 25s out.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

You know, and that's how you fluctuate or know what to bet. Keep it simple like that.

[John Gabris]

How often are you going to Vegas?

[Nelson Dulles]

I wish I could do it more. I'd maybe do it once a quarter just because I have a family and it's. It's less easier for me to. To go out.

[Adam Pally]

You're preaching to the choir, brother. I don't even have a family.

[Nelson Dulles]

But the team is out there quite often.

[John Gabris]

The team is out there a lot.

[Adam Pally]

Dude, we gotta get on.

[John Gabris]

I gotta get on. Yes. Do you guys have. You guys have merch?

[Nelson Dulles]

We don't have merch.

[Adam Pally]

Card counters.

[Nelson Dulles]

We're like a team.

[Adam Pally]

We be counting with a JBL speaker.

[John Gabris]

I just, I just imagine you all dress like Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman and Rain Man.

[Nelson Dulles]

Dude, now we are so, so schlub. Like it's, you know, smart.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

Especially me. I'm tall and I think people know can see me like coming, you know. So I have to just look very inconspicuous. And you do that.

[Adam Pally]

You put your shoes on your knees and kind of door. Yeah, I don't even know.

[John Gabris]

I'm just trying to make some money to.

[Adam Pally]

I'm just a 5 foot 4 guy.

[John Gabris]

With huge traps and a massive sense of risk.

[Nelson Dulles]

Seems to be working.

[Adam Pally]

Did I tell you I climbed up ever $700.

[John Gabris]

These days you've got two choices. Buying a new car or making the.

[Nelson Dulles]

One you've got run like new.

[John Gabris]

That's why we have thousands of ASE.

[Nelson Dulles]

Certified technicians to help you get more.

[John Gabris]

Out of your car.

[Nelson Dulles]

Firestone Complete Auto Care book [e-mail] if.

[Unknown]

You'Re looking to help your child catch up, stay sharp or get a head start this school year without the start, IXL is the answer. Its interactive lessons keep kids engaged with content tailored to their level pace and learning style. IXL is the award winning platform proven to boost grades in math, science, social studies and more. One subscription works for all your kids, saving your family time and money. Visit ixl.com 20 to get the most effective learning program out there with an exclusive 20% off. Moms Ready to make back to school healthy and stress free. Thrive market's got you. They restrict over 1000 sketchy ingredients so you can shop worry free. Grab high protein dinners and low sugar lunchbox faves. From lesser evil popcorn to partake cookie snack packs. They have the best kid approved swaps. And don't forget about yourself. Grab a cures hydrogel eye mask for the perfect end of day reset. Their big back to school sale makes it the perfect time to stock up now. Go to thrivemarket.com podcast for 30% off your first order and a free $60 gift.

[Adam Pally]

We briefly mentioned a couple of times and and we should just talk about go off memory for a second. So you've. You've hiked Everest more than once?

[Nelson Dulles]

Yes, I've attempted it four times.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, attempt. You said one summit ever.

[Nelson Dulles]

No. Very close.

[John Gabris]

What?

[Adam Pally]

Appreciate your. Yeah yeah.

[John Gabris]

What Happened. Someone die?

[Nelson Dulles]

There's always somebody who died. Not. Not. Is that true?

[Adam Pally]

Really?

[John Gabris]

Cuz you said that very casually.

[Adam Pally]

There's like, multiple frozen corpses a year.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd say at least 1 to 2% of people climbing a year become permanent fixtures on that thing.

[John Gabris]

So did you go buy any?

[Nelson Dulles]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What? Well, there's, you know, there's some that have been there for decades.

[Adam Pally]

They're, like, famous, like, people. People are like, we're passing this, like, legendary.

[Nelson Dulles]

He lies here.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah. And in certain seasons, there's too much snow, so you don't see it. Others, you just see, like, a leg. Sometimes you see the whole damn thing.

[John Gabris]

If you look really close, you can see Thomas Middleditch, former star of Silicon Valley, frozen. Frozen into the mountain.

[Nelson Dulles]

Do you know Thomas, by the way? Yeah, he's a good friend of mine. Is he? We brought him on a Kilimanjaro track recently. 100.

[Adam Pally]

That's. Well, that's why we use.

[John Gabris]

That's why I use him as a reference.

[Adam Pally]

We saw on his Instagram that he did.

[Nelson Dulles]

That was my. My company.

[John Gabris]

Oh, you were in that with Thomas?

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah. And Everest Base Camp.

[John Gabris]

We.

[Nelson Dulles]

We just did that last.

[John Gabris]

Cool. What else are you into?

[Nelson Dulles]

That's it. Are you part of the lifestyle? I'm just kidding.

[John Gabris]

I'm just kidding. I love you, Tommy.

[Adam Pally]

So. Because a buddy of mine did Kilimanjaro, and he said if it wasn't for the people with him, he had such bad altitude sickness. He got to take a photo, and, like, he was just at the summit, and he was just sitting there like, do you want a photo? And he's like, what?

[Nelson Dulles]

Huh?

[Adam Pally]

And they were like, oh, they got it. And they got him back down. And he was okay, but he. He. He's a little bit of an athlete. And I was like, this is something I want to do. And he's like, brother, you have to be prepared. And. And. And you can't even, like, actually train for, like, some of the.

[Nelson Dulles]

That you're doing, because where do you emulate the summit of, you know, a continent? You know, it's like, of course there's ways to train, but altitude sickness and feeling that altitude is such a. It's hard to explain. Like, it. You up it. Even if you are the best athlete, you know, your mind can.

[John Gabris]

With your memory, it can.

[Nelson Dulles]

And just. You can be. You can feel like you're not even there or like you're drunk or high or something. It's. It pushes your body beyond anything you've ever.

[Adam Pally]

Are you gonna go for a fifth run?

[Nelson Dulles]

I kind of have to.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

It's like this long term goal I set for myself. I started attempting it in 201111 and it's like, it's annoying now that I have to say, you know, you guys have this on paper, he's climbed Everest four times. I have to be like, well, asterisk. You know, I got very close. It's still. I hate that saying that, you know, in that moment.

[John Gabris]

Honestly, dude, you didn't have to say that. Like I would have still been impressed. Like truly. That's like Bradley Cooper training for 10 years for the Maestro movie. It's like you could have done it in two weeks. Would not have known what.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, pretty good.

[John Gabris]

Great performance. Did not know that that took exactly. So it's like what you could have said. Oh yeah. It's actually only three. I would have been like, damn, dude. Like you don't need to go another round.

[Adam Pally]

Just go attempting it. Is the. Is the fucking big leap. Like just trying it. Yeah, yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

And getting close, I think. You know, I had a real good shot. I was 50 meters from the top. That was my. And closest.

[Adam Pally]

Holy shit. And that's how fucking hard it hits you is that you can't even just like.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, I mean it's.

[Adam Pally]

Someone can't drag you 50 more meters. @ that point you're could.

[Nelson Dulles]

But you remember I got to come down too. So that's the whole thing. You got to.

[John Gabris]

Is it really steep at the top?

[Nelson Dulles]

There are certain section there's like this Hillary Step which is quite technical, but then it's kind of a.

[John Gabris]

Kind of. Yeah, I was gonna say. Yeah, I thought.

[Adam Pally]

But it's emails.

[John Gabris]

I was gonna say. I thought, I thought that Hillary Stepp was in Benghazi.

[Nelson Dulles]

Oh, I see what you're saying.

[Adam Pally]

It's the Hillary Step. People hate it for some reason.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, I'm sure they'd like it the step if it was a man.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

But it's actually named for Edmund Hillary, correct?

[John Gabris]

Yes.

[Adam Pally]

Who is a man.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Adam Pally]

But thank God now we're on board.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Adam Pally]

And he's our Democratic nominee in 2028. The fifth corpse to be president.

[John Gabris]

So.

[Adam Pally]

Well, I want to talk about the idea of being 50 meters. Like that feels like the title of a self help book. Like 50 meters from the Summit, you know, and it's. It's like. Cause that would. That would be something that like would be an instigating incident for a character in a movie. You know what I mean? Like this would. This Is like where then you'd have a picture of Everest in front of a stair machine in your house or some shit.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, that's like cuts from old Robert Redford to young Brad Pitt.

[Adam Pally]

Right? Exactly like, and I'll do this mountain someday. Because that's fucking crazy. And then what kind of training goes into that for you? Because you seem like you're an in shape guy. Based on. I was like feeling your muscles before we started recording. They're like touching your body.

[John Gabris]

That's just how Gabriel greets people.

[Adam Pally]

I say I'm blind and I'm like, hold on. This will help me remember you. I just feel you up. We're not allowed to have female guests anymore.

[John Gabris]

Thanks for signing that waiver.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, I shouldn't have.

[Adam Pally]

We made people sign an NDA about a podcast.

[John Gabris]

This is coming out, but you can't talk about what went on.

[Adam Pally]

No cancellation. Anything that happened off mic. So what kind of training are you doing to prepare yourself for Everest?

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, for that one. And I've changed it over the years to try to figure out what's the matter. I think a big part of it is actually my physiology being so tall. It's it, I think it, the blood's.

[Adam Pally]

Got to go a long way and.

[John Gabris]

You'Re already altitude, you're already up there.

[Adam Pally]

Right. You have extra, extra foot. More altitude sickness than anyone else standing.

[Nelson Dulles]

Exactly.

[John Gabris]

You were really pissed when that short king went right by you.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, well, that's what I hear from a lot of the people who've done these big hikes. Is that like the Sherpas? We the be like, you'll look over and there'll be like a 4 foot 11 guy with a cigarette in his mouth and all your bags on his head and he just cruises.

[John Gabris]

It's Runyon Canyon.

[Nelson Dulles]

Exaggeration. It's. They are such strong people and genetically engineered for.

[Adam Pally]

Right. They're like living at the summit at the base of it. So they're already got the height in there. It's crazy.

[Nelson Dulles]

But in terms of training, you know, I, I, I, I do CrossFit. That's like my favorite kind of working out to do. But that doesn't really help you in the mountains.

[Adam Pally]

What's your Fran time?

[Nelson Dulles]

Oh, my Fran time's bad. It's like five, ten. You guys CrossFit?

[Adam Pally]

I did CrossFit for a while.

[John Gabris]

He's a CrossFit guy.

[Adam Pally]

No, I went from CrossFit to powerlifting to a sedentary lifestyle. My doctor said, why don't you do nothing? No, he didn't I?

[John Gabris]

And you're. You have Michael Jackson.

[Adam Pally]

Dr. Conrad Murray said, why don't you lay down, breathe this in and take a fucking.

[John Gabris]

You know what you need a nap.

[Adam Pally]

Hit me, doc.

[John Gabris]

No, my fitness is like my, my fitness has always been like, like basic, basic fit. Like, like fitness classes. Like I used to do like a bunch of like spin classes and then I got a peloton and then, you know, it's like I never, I never actually like CrossFit.

[Adam Pally]

Because you like, I know you like those like hour long boxing classes.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, you like that?

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

You don't like competing.

[Nelson Dulles]

You don't have to.

[Adam Pally]

You only compete with yourself. If you imagine you're only competing with yourself.

[John Gabris]

Don't even like competing with myself.

[Adam Pally]

I mean either. Yeah, that was the thing that got. But I did like the. What's the word I'm looking for here? You, you, me, like you memorize, you keep track of all your scores.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Adam Pally]

So when you come back to a workout, you can like mark true progress.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, it's like peloton.

[Adam Pally]

Does that let you do that too? So you're doing CrossFit, obviously being able to do 95 pound hang power cleans. Not going to save your ass on the side.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, exactly. So then I have to switch like before an expedition to more, longer, longer, slower, not so intense cardio. Just long burns, like hour long StairMaster with a pack on. Also strength training like with my legs and stuff. Because that's what you're using.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

My arms don't matter.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Nelson Dulles]

And actually having a lot of muscle mass. I think that part might be part of the reason why I didn't do so great in my first expeditions because I was just like very crossfit muscular. I'm less so now, but the, that needs oxygen, you know, so. So you'll find a lot of the people who summit and do really well are leaner, smaller.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. Are you, are you hiking like Bear Mountain or whatever stuff, whatever's around in upstate? Or you're like, I got. Because you.

[John Gabris]

That's.

[Adam Pally]

Get as much altitude as you can try to up there.

[Nelson Dulles]

Well, well, here's the fun thing is I just moved there two years ago. I used to live in Miami. I grew up in Miami. So we have bridges, you know, so that, that's, that was it.

[John Gabris]

Right. And yeah, but Miami has a. But, but Miami has a real communal fitness. Like you grew up in Miami. You're into fitness. Everybody's outside, everybody's outside, looking good, running, rollerblading or if they're not they're like going to some class. There's like, you know, Miami was like the beginning of all those, like, aerobic.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

You know, studios and boot camps. Yes. It's like, I feel like that culture leans itself to exercise. Do you change your diet?

[Nelson Dulles]

I actually try to bulk up, so usually just eat a ton of. So I have fat reserves, you know.

[Adam Pally]

For warmth and for burning off.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah. And the, the actual summit push, we're not really eating much. And at high altitude, you don't have much appetite, so you waste away so quickly.

[Adam Pally]

I think I am ready to hike Everest.

[Nelson Dulles]

It's a great weight loss program. I don't know how safe it is, but I lost 35 pounds, was the most I ever lost in a expedition.

[John Gabris]

Dang.

[Adam Pally]

How long, how long is an expedition? Like the one where you got to 50 meters out? How many days of what were you on the side?

[Nelson Dulles]

Well, that whole trip, I think, was eight weeks on the mountain. And then at that point we were probably six weeks in or so.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, eight weeks. Because, because you have to kind of like table it every once in a while. Right. And adjust.

[John Gabris]

So are you independently wealthy? Family money? Like, how do you make money?

[Adam Pally]

I think we know.

[Nelson Dulles]

I wasn't doing, I wasn't doing that then quarterly. I work hard to pay for that trip. And I went on like a super budget. I went with a budget company, which was fine. You can pay a lot of money to climb Everest. It's, I'm not saying it's cheap. It's, it's always expensive, but, but you.

[John Gabris]

Can do it at a cost.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah. And I also, I, I wrapped it around kind of my, I had a cause for it, so I got sponsors. It was my Climb for Memory kind of initiative to. And I raised money for the charity and stuff and made a whole to do out of it. That helped kind of.

[John Gabris]

But that must take a lot of.

[Adam Pally]

Climb for Memory is the name of the charity.

[John Gabris]

That must take a lot out of too, because now you're like, to climb Everest, not only you training and changing your diet and, and doing all this, but at the same time, you're working every day to get enough money to do it.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Gabris]

It's like that's a, and get it publicly. That's a huge undertaking. So. No, but see why you wouldn't want to do it.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, I, I, I, I took on that challenge. I was, I wanted to do it. It was all part of it, you.

[Adam Pally]

Know, that, this, the victory. You know, I've been trying to get in a good headspace about this, but the. The fact that you even been, like, attempted it is enough of a victory.

[John Gabris]

That's what I mean. Like, I don't care about those 50ft, man. You climbed Everest four times. Like, as far as I'm concerned, you're Everest climber.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Now, my friend Thomas Middleditch, on the other hand, I will never consider him. I will never. Until he touches the top.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, he's.

[John Gabris]

He's a good.

[Nelson Dulles]

He's strong.

[Adam Pally]

You can. You can climb.

[John Gabris]

No, he's not.

[Adam Pally]

You can nearly summon Everest 10 times, but you suck one dick, you're a cocksucker for life. That's. My dad used to. To say, paint a thousand paintings, never be considered a painter. Suck one dick, cocksucker for life. Oh, Jesus.

[John Gabris]

I don't know why my dad was about.

[Adam Pally]

He hated my paintings.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Talk me through it just a little bit. I'm so curious about this. What. What are those weeks on the side of the mountain like? You're like, go up a little bit.

[John Gabris]

What Gabris is getting at is like, where are you shitting? Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Are you shitting in, like, Tupperware on Everest?

[John Gabris]

Because you're not supposed to bring it back on Everest. Like.

[Nelson Dulles]

No, no, no. Like on that expedition.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

Cause it's kind of different on some other. Other ones. Some kind of hole. Yeah, yeah. But on Everest at. You first trek in, there's depending on what side you climb, but if it's on the Nepalese side, I gotta climb.

[John Gabris]

The side they let Jews on.

[Nelson Dulles]

Oh, it's both.

[John Gabris]

Oh, it is, yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

As of now, I don't know. Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Who knows things?

[John Gabris]

Have they read the news?

[Adam Pally]

Mount America.

[John Gabris]

So, all right, so we're climbing all the way together. Not segregated, usually. Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

All together. Nobody's being judged for their. Their background. But we hiked to base camp, takes about a week. You go through the valley. It's super beautiful. That's the thing I did with.

[John Gabris]

And where are you. Where are you sleeping?

[Nelson Dulles]

Then there's lodges, like tea houses owned by Sherpas and stuff throughout very culturally. Culturally.

[John Gabris]

So this is.

[Nelson Dulles]

No, no, no, no. It's like wooden frames.

[John Gabris]

So that's really where you're pooping in a hole. The ground there.

[Nelson Dulles]

Some of them have bathrooms or makeshift bathrooms, but effectively it's just a hole in the ground. Some are literally just a hole. Some have, like, a little chair with a hole cut out of it. Some have actual little toilets, you know, that don't really flush. But your phone work. Yeah, yeah. Well, in 2011, not so much but nowadays, we were just there in October. It's everywhere.

[John Gabris]

It works.

[Nelson Dulles]

WI fi is good.

[John Gabris]

So you cranking it, watching porn up.

[Adam Pally]

You're supposed to keep the come in you all the way to the top. That's the thing.

[John Gabris]

And then bust it out, dude.

[Adam Pally]

Some people got an edge. It's called edging up the mountain.

[Nelson Dulles]

Some people take Viagra on summit day because it's good for the heart.

[Adam Pally]

Oh, yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

Okay. The original purpose.

[John Gabris]

Right, right.

[Nelson Dulles]

That was the side effect.

[Adam Pally]

I take them on record days.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. And I take them on my off days.

[Adam Pally]

My wife puts in my coffee every morning.

[Nelson Dulles]

What was your question? Oh, if I crank it on the mountain, dude, after eight weeks, what do you think?

[John Gabris]

Yeah, of course, I wouldn't want to be sleeping in the. In the hammock below you.

[Adam Pally]

8,000. It's 50 more meters. I'll be right up.

[John Gabris]

Oh, I'm.

[Nelson Dulles]

It's the reason I didn't make it, guys.

[John Gabris]

Okay, someone's out here.

[Adam Pally]

Hey, someone's coming in this hole right now. So a week week in there.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, that's the cushiest part. But it's not that cushy. And then you get to base camp and depending on the services that the company that you hired provides, you know, you may just have a tent. You know, that's your base. You sleep in the center. Can be cozy. I like that. I like camping like that. Other ones have. Have tents with beds in them now. It's crazy. Somebody does, I guess. Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Like you just like you can. Money can just get you to a bougier and Bougier spot version of it.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. Is there a VIP section at the. At the base?

[Nelson Dulles]

I'm sure some Companies have Keshes DJing the VIP section.

[John Gabris]

Welcome to the Ray Ban base.

[Nelson Dulles]

I wouldn't be surprised.

[Adam Pally]

Nowadays, the Arc Teryx VIP coffee lounge at a Everest.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, there used to be a bakery and you know, bakery, it's really just a dome tent with some rudimentary oven, you know, that somebody's making. Right. Which is. It's still awesome to have that stuff up there. But it may not be the bakery that you imagine. In terms of toilets, though, at base camp, you now have a tent around basically a barrel, like a 40 gallon barrel that's maybe got like a plastic seat on it, you know. And it's. There's everywhere, but it gets emptied. The helicopters take it away every once in a while. And then higher up, you're effectively just pooping in a bag.

[John Gabris]

Where do those helicopters fly over? Like the village?

[Nelson Dulles]

I think they Avoid the villages, but I don't know where their drop offs are.

[Adam Pally]

Beautiful day out, isn't it?

[John Gabris]

I'd come inside now.

[Nelson Dulles]

Oh, you know what? It also the yaks carried out. It's not always helicopters. It's probably more yaks on the back of yak. Yaks in containers.

[John Gabris]

So back feels like.

[Adam Pally]

Don't talk back.

[John Gabris]

That sounds like. I was gonna say that sounds like.

[Adam Pally]

A take out the poop.

[John Gabris]

The lyric of a Paul Simon song. Spending the poop's coming out from the yak outback.

[Nelson Dulles]

All right.

[Adam Pally]

And so then you're on the side of the mountain for the next five weeks. Just going up a little. Going up a decent amount. Posting up there, acclimating. Acclimating. And then doing.

[Nelson Dulles]

Come back down, back to base camp, check, chill. Then go up maybe another camp, sleep there, come back down.

[Adam Pally]

Whoa.

[Nelson Dulles]

Do you cycle through the mountain?

[Adam Pally]

So that's what makes it extra difficult.

[Nelson Dulles]

Is that long?

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

Right. Yeah.

[John Gabris]

So you can't do that with your dad now, right?

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah. Four.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, four.

[Nelson Dulles]

Four little kids.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, four little kids.

[Nelson Dulles]

Little ones, yeah. What are their ages? Six, four, three and a half and. Well, four and a half. Three and a half and one. Now you really religious? No, just careless.

[Adam Pally]

I just hate condoms. I keep forgetting condoms.

[Nelson Dulles]

We are very fertile. I guess. Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Touch her on the shoulder and apparently I have three. I. I don't know why I'm talking like crazy.

[Adam Pally]

You have three kids.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, we just did it one more.

[Nelson Dulles]

Time than you did.

[John Gabris]

I know, but it's like four seems so insane. Three is insane. Not three to four.

[Nelson Dulles]

There's no difference.

[John Gabris]

Come on. Everyone says that.

[Nelson Dulles]

Insanity.

[John Gabris]

I'm already in a zone. I don't want to go to a box one. You know, it's like that's. You're really in trouble. Like the.

[Adam Pally]

The.

[John Gabris]

But so you can't leave that long. You gotta.

[Nelson Dulles]

You're exactly.

[John Gabris]

You're are on your daily. When you're doing all. All this stuff to like get ready. You're also taking care of a huge family, correct?

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah. So it's been hard, obviously. My first time, 2011, I was not with my current wife and my wife and was there a wife? No, no, no. That sounded like I had many.

[Adam Pally]

Imagine you called your wife your current wife to her face. She's like, what do you mean? What are you planning?

[John Gabris]

I say this is. I'd. My current wife.

[Adam Pally]

She's my wife for now.

[Nelson Dulles]

She is my current wife. She still is.

[John Gabris]

She will be. Yeah, she will be. That's not current. Current means now.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah. It's the one now. And just now now.

[Adam Pally]

And parents loved berries. It's my goji wife.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah. But I was with an ex girlfriend. That's what I meant. We didn't have kids and it wasn't that serious, so I didn't have to worry about that. Even the second attempt, I still was essentially single. But then the last two, as far as those Sherpas.

[John Gabris]

New. Yeah, exactly.

[Nelson Dulles]

But the last two, you know, I had a growing family. And even the last time we were, my wife was pregnant with her third, which wasn't the ideal time to go, but it was kind of like I got to get out of my system. Unfortunately, I didn't summit, so it's still kind of on the table for me.

[John Gabris]

That must have been a tough conversation at home.

[Nelson Dulles]

Oh, it's not easy at all.

[John Gabris]

Come back and she's like, so you ready to come back?

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[John Gabris]

Be the full time dad that you want to be now.

[Adam Pally]

You got to wait till the old list is old enough to do it with you and be like, it's actually, I'll take one off your hands.

[John Gabris]

Have you talked. Have you talked about doing it with your kids?

[Nelson Dulles]

I would love. I don't know about Everest, maybe one day, but definitely Kilimanjaro. Or take them to base camp. My six year old. I'd love to.

[John Gabris]

Wow. You can do that at six.

[Nelson Dulles]

I wouldn't do it now, but maybe in a couple years. I think you'd be ready.

[Adam Pally]

Is. Is Kilimanjaro. I'm using air quotes here for listeners. Easier than Everest.

[Nelson Dulles]

Definitely. Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

It's still an intense challenge, but the altitude is way less. Technically, there's not much technical to it. It's a hike.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Is that still like a five week adventure?

[Nelson Dulles]

No. And that's shorter. It's one week. You can even do it in five days. Some people push that, but I think the proper way is to do it in seven days.

[Adam Pally]

I need to get back and record an episode of Staying Alive. So I gotta bang out Killy in five days.

[John Gabris]

I hate to ask you this. I hope it doesn't sound negative, but as a memory expert who's climbed Kilimanjaro four times.

[Nelson Dulles]

Five.

[John Gabris]

Five times.

[Nelson Dulles]

Times.

[John Gabris]

Don't you kind of remember it? Like, do you need to keep going back?

[Nelson Dulles]

The reason I go is because as I mentioned before, it's. I turn it into a business. So I organize trips and bring other people there and give.

[Adam Pally]

Did you know you accidentally has completely sold me on climbing one of these mounds at the End of it.

[Nelson Dulles]

Perfect.

[Adam Pally]

As a matter of fact, I can. Would you see yourself in a beautiful 20k, baby?

[John Gabris]

How much does it cost to go.

[Nelson Dulles]

To go on a trip on. On Killy? Yeah, we charge about 3, 500.

[John Gabris]

That's all in way less than I thought you were going to say. Yeah, yeah, that's. And. And that's like food and lodging and not flight.

[Nelson Dulles]

But not flight.

[John Gabris]

And where do you fly into Kilimanjaro?

[Nelson Dulles]

There's an airport called Kilimanjaro Airport.

[John Gabris]

Like straight JFK to Kilimanjaro.

[Nelson Dulles]

It goes through Doha. There's no direct stop in Doha. Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Layover in Doha.

[Adam Pally]

I lay over in Doha from LAX to here. I got to save a couple of bucks on this flight.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. You're also directed by the U.S. air Traffic Control recently. So. But I have another question, if you don't mind it, because you are, like you said, you raise money for Alzheimer's while you do this. And Alzheimer's is something that is just terrifying to me and heartbreaking and seeing.

[Adam Pally]

Like, my friends, parents, or family members deal with that. It's a difficult condition to deal with.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

How do you find that you are advising people when they tell you, like, oh, I don't want to get that.

[Nelson Dulles]

Or.

[John Gabris]

Or am I going to get that? You know, like, what do you say to people? As rudimentary again, as that question may be. Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

And listeners know that no one on this pod is an expert or. You know what I mean? Like.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, yeah. No, so don't. Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

It's my. What I've read and. Yeah. Learned through the years of. Of talking about this.

[John Gabris]

Dude, you're a white man. You can give advice. Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

It's a podcast with white guys.

[John Gabris]

You're allowed. This is like what you're supposed to be doing.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, yeah, right. I'm destined for this. Um, no. So there's. There's really. I've narrowed it down to four, like, pillars of. Of. Of health that I try to touch on every day. One is the mental kind of activity. So doing something. For me, it's the memory training or even just little things like memorizing people's names instead of, you know, forgetting them or using.

[Adam Pally]

Use it or lose it.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Challenge your mind. Right. In some way, make your brain uncomfortable. So the mental exercise.

[Adam Pally]

I hide Adam's breakfast at the end of a maze every morning so he can tire himself out, use his brain again.

[John Gabris]

Thank God. Otherwise I wouldn't eat and I'd be brain dead.

[Nelson Dulles]

Then physical activity. So keeping Yourself, active diet, eating the right foods. And again, it doesn't have to be like the cleanest of diets, but.

[John Gabris]

So it's like a clean diet to you.

[Nelson Dulles]

Well, I will say that before competition, part of the training is cutting out a lot of processed food foods, less or no sugar or processed sugars. And. And no alcohol or minimal alcohol. Keeps me in immensely sharper than I would have been otherwise. Of course. Kind of like mental fog. Clears.

[John Gabris]

You drink on the daily. Anyway. Like, are you a drink?

[Nelson Dulles]

I'm not a big drinker, so that's not a big deal for me. But the sugar thing is I love.

[Adam Pally]

To eat something sweet and with four kids that you might have some sweets.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah, yeah. Halloween, Christmas, Christmas, Easter, they always get these baskets of that. I. Yeah.

[John Gabris]

And it takes forever for them. Forever to finish because, like, I have.

[Nelson Dulles]

To throw some out always.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Oh, wait, so was that the. That was three pillars.

[Nelson Dulles]

The fourth one, I think is like social engagement with other people. And I think this one became even more apparent during COVID where people didn't get to see each other. And you realize how that actually affected your. Your brain health.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

I described it as like my brain crusting over a little. Yeah, yeah.

[John Gabris]

That's when Al Pacino got the Shrek for phone cover during Company.

[Nelson Dulles]

Is it?

[John Gabris]

Yeah. Everyone went a little crazy.

[Adam Pally]

I totally forgot about COVID but I totally remembered that Alino Shrek we had.

[Nelson Dulles]

The five year anniversary just a couple days ago.

[John Gabris]

The phone cover.

[Nelson Dulles]

Well, I don't know the date of that.

[Adam Pally]

Everyone celebrates it differently.

[John Gabris]

I'm sorry. I know. I'm just saying, like at. At that time, everyone went a little crazy.

[Nelson Dulles]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Gabris]

Oh, yeah. So. So you start in the pandemic feeling everyone's going crazy and seeing. And seeing signs of like dementia in.

[Nelson Dulles]

Well, no, no, I don't. I had always thought that that fourth pillar should be some kind of social. Maintaining some kind of social connection, whether that be, you know, having conversations with other people, because that might stimulate your brain more. You know, if you're doing this by yourself, you don't interact with anybody. You know, it's. It's a quiet world. Right. Like, how are you challenging your mind? Also building a network of people around you that if. That you do get Alzheimer's one day, that you can have the support system.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. Or someone who else could pick up on it for you too.

[John Gabris]

I so badly wanted to like, be like Robin Williams and Dead Poet Society and be like. Nietzsche is challenging your mind. The greats are challenging your mind.

[Adam Pally]

Stand on your desk and release your barbaric yelp from the rooftops. Oh, Captain, my Captain.

[John Gabris]

Shakespeare has challenged your mind.

[Adam Pally]

Before we get you out of here, you have some former records listed here, and this is the one I'm very curious about. Fastest to recall a memorized deck of cards underwater.

[Nelson Dulles]

I still have that record.

[John Gabris]

2 minutes of 25 decks.

[Adam Pally]

Current Guinness world record. Sorry, I read it wrong now. Are you memorizing it underwater? Are you in a scuba mask?

[Nelson Dulles]

No, I'm holding my breath.

[John Gabris]

You held your breath for 2 minutes, 22 seconds?

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Damn, girl.

[Nelson Dulles]

That part wasn't the hard part. Well.

[Adam Pally]

How'D your husband die? He drowned. Memorizing cards?

[John Gabris]

Well, yeah, but you would never say that right away would be like, how'd your husband die? Be like, unfortunately, he drowned. You're like, oh, my God, that's so sorry.

[Adam Pally]

Was he like a ship captain on a boat?

[John Gabris]

Was he like. Is he like, the perfect storm? Is he collecting fish? No, actually, he was totally fit. He climbed Everest four, five times. Never touched the summit, though. Well, how'd he die?

[Adam Pally]

The goddamn Jack of clubs. Gilded.

[John Gabris]

I couldn't remember the Jack of clubs underwater in a contest.

[Adam Pally]

That's so crazy for a pen. You're down there with water.

[John Gabris]

The reward was a pen.

[Nelson Dulles]

Waterproof cards. I did have a scuba belt, like, with weights to keep me down so I wouldn't, like, float up to the surface.

[John Gabris]

That's the worst part about doing underwater scenes when you have to just see it in a movie. Underwater, water.

[Nelson Dulles]

Oh, yeah. They weigh you down.

[John Gabris]

It's panic inducing.

[Nelson Dulles]

Oh, sure, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I. I'm scuba certified, and I would be flip.

[John Gabris]

I flip when I have to panic. Yeah. So you go underwater, and then they. They give you the deck.

[Nelson Dulles]

So I had them. That one. Yeah, I was underwater. They give me the decks. Yeah, they were waterproof ones. Because you'd be surprised how quickly bicycle deck just, like, disintegrates.

[John Gabris]

No, I drink around cards.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, familiar.

[Nelson Dulles]

Um, so the record. I. I should correct you. It wasn't how long it took me underwater. Uh, it was how fast I put it back together after memorizing it. I came out, out of the water. I was underwater, memorizing. I didn't come up until I was done that. I don't remember how long that took. That wasn't part of the record.

[John Gabris]

It says 2 minutes and 20 seconds.

[Nelson Dulles]

Well, no, the 222 was coming on. On. On water and putting it back in order.

[John Gabris]

So you. You weren't underwater that long.

[Nelson Dulles]

I Was probably. I think I was maybe a little longer. Three point minutes. Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

So you're like as long as I need. So it's like, it's like there. The. The difficulty of this is like you're memorizing under an intense situation without oxygen.

[John Gabris]

I also, I got to tell you, hypoxic. I also, I got to tell you, it's just like for a memory champion, you don't remember so much.

[Nelson Dulles]

It's true.

[John Gabris]

It's why I basically remember nothing.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah. I remember what happens in front of me on a piece of paper at a competition.

[John Gabris]

Literally every question we've asked you has been like, geez, I don't know, like, to the point of like, what did you eat? Were like, I guess I had Shake Shack. Like, dude, remember something?

[Adam Pally]

We challenged. We challenged him to come up with 235 girl names and we had to edit it out because he only got to 229.

[John Gabris]

I'm sorry. And Billy is both.

[Adam Pally]

We've been arguing for hours.

[John Gabris]

Billy. Dylan. Dude, you're so fun, man.

[Adam Pally]

We really appreciate. And guess what? You might be getting an email at.

[Nelson Dulles]

I would love to.

[John Gabris]

Thank you, Nelson. And you're the man.

[Nelson Dulles]

Thank you. Thanks for having.

[John Gabris]

Oh, is there anything you want to plug?

[Nelson Dulles]

Oh, yeah, any.

[John Gabris]

Take it.

[Nelson Dulles]

If anybody wants to learn about how to do any of the stuff that I teach my website, Nelson Dell.com has a bunch of tools there. I have a memory course that goes live once a year in the summer called Everest Memory Masterclass.

[Adam Pally]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

Summit. The definitely pinnacle of your mind.

[Adam Pally]

Now you have to hit the summit. You're naming a business.

[Nelson Dulles]

Exactly.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. Before I didn't have a problem with it, but now I feel like it's a little Stolen valor.

[Nelson Dulles]

Sorry.

[Adam Pally]

Down Arizona. All I got was this dumb hat.

[John Gabris]

And you didn't climb it.

[Nelson Dulles]

I know. I'm living alive.

[John Gabris]

You were there.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yep.

[Adam Pally]

And your company that you take people.

[Nelson Dulles]

On mountains with you, that's called Axventures. It's really a side thing that I like to do just to justify to my wife that I. Hell yeah, can go climb and. And make a few bucks, you know? Thanks guys. That was great.

[Adam Pally]

Appreciate you.

[Nelson Dulles]

That was cool. So much fun.

[Adam Pally]

Man. That was talking to a memory champ and then being able to downshift to card counting and then upshift to hiking Everest is like that. That. That guy's probably a banger party guest for at least an hour.

[John Gabris]

Oh yeah. I love people like that. Like people who like, have or have so many interests.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

You know, like multifaceted people are, so. I'm not that at all. You know, I mean, like, I talk.

[Adam Pally]

You are, though, you think?

[John Gabris]

I guess everyone is. And they think they're not because everyone has more than one thing they're interested in. I mean, you're super multifaceted.

[Adam Pally]

I'm like. I'm polymathic that way. I like a lot of different.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. And you're into it.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. I feel like I. I like, I. Maybe I'm into the same. Maybe what I. What I. Is. I don't grow that much. Like, never got into art. Never got into, like.

[Adam Pally]

But arguably you are because, like, you're a music aficionado, a clothing aficionado, and. And you watch movies and tv. Those are all art.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

But it's all the same. It's all the same art that I've consumed since I was a kid. Like.

[Adam Pally]

Right.

[John Gabris]

I feel like I. Maybe I'm not great growing as. At a rate that I should be.

[Adam Pally]

We should go to, like, a museum or something together.

[John Gabris]

I went to the Chicago Museum of Art last time I was there. It was. It was. I was there for, like, six hours.

[Adam Pally]

Oh, that's awesome.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

I just. I went to the National Portrait Gallery and the Smithsonian in. In When I was in D.C. it was awesome.

[John Gabris]

We should get Dr. Rad to come with us to the art museum.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. Get him up. Get us academy up.

[John Gabris]

Academy. Dump.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. That conversation with Nelson was awesome.

[John Gabris]

Awesome, awesome.

[Adam Pally]

I am. I'm ready to, like. I'm more excited about hiking Everest than I am about memorizing. Playing. Memorizing numbers by memorizing. Playing cards and playing a little.

[John Gabris]

I think that was. He also explained it patiently in a way that. One of the first times I've tried to learn that theory so much.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

But I feel like that was one of the first times I understood how to take the plus theory.

[Nelson Dulles]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

And use it with my best.

[Adam Pally]

Right. It was.

[John Gabris]

It.

[Adam Pally]

I will make him write that equation down and email it to us.

[John Gabris]

For sure. Yeah. Because I, like, I was very. I was wrapped.

[Adam Pally]

I hope some real fitness freak is like, oh, finally another wellness podcast. And just listens to us talk about how we can scam casinos for, like, two hours.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. I don't know what wellness we're doing.

[Adam Pally]

Hey, I'm just trying to make my life a little weller.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, well, stay well one well at a time. Yeah. I'm just trying to get out of a well, baby.

[Adam Pally]

Jessica, I thought a dingo ate you.

[John Gabris]

You know, I don't even think that there was a baby Jessica in the well, I think that was all made up.

[Adam Pally]

Oh, fuck. You think that was AI.

[John Gabris]

Goodbye.

[Adam Pally]

Stay alive. You have been listening to Staying Alive with John Gabris and Adam Pali. A Smartless Media production in association with Sirius xm.

[John Gabris]

Produced by Devin Tory Bryant and Anne Harris. Engineered and edited by Devin Tory Bryant, who also wrote the music.

[Adam Pally]

Associate producer and video producer is Matty McCann. Social media producer Tommy Galgano.

[John Gabris]

Assistant engineer Kyle McGraw. Special thanks to Jared O' Connell at SiriusXM.

[Adam Pally]

Executive producers are John Gabris. Ooh me. Adam Pally. Ooh, you Will Arnett, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, Richard Corson and Bernie Kaminski. Do us a favor. Just rate and review the podcast. It actually helps.

[John Gabris]

Just so everyone knows we do not have a discord.

[Adam Pally]

Don't reach out to us.

[John Gabris]

See us on the street. Walk the other way or you'll catch hands.

[Adam Pally]

Dude, thank you so much, man.

[Nelson Dulles]

Appreciate it.

[Adam Pally]

Later, bud. Nice meeting you. Thank you. Thank you again.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, thanks. Is it okay I spilled water over the wires?

[Adam Pally]

Oh, that's the wet wires. Yeah, you're right.

[John Gabris]

Okay, cool. Smart. Bless media. Riley Herbst from 2311 Racing checking in. Got a break in between team meetings. Sounds like the perfect time for some fast paced fun at Chumba Casino. No waiting, just instant action to keep you going. So next time you need a pick me up, fire it up and take a spin. Play [e-mail] let's Chumba.

[Adam Pally]

No purchase necessary VGW Group void. We're prohibited by law. CTNC's 21+ sponsored by Chumba Casino.