Mice & Vegetables (w/ Dr. Shruti Naik)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Mice & Vegetables (w/ Dr. Shruti Naik)"

Episode Information:

• Title: Mice & Vegetables
• Hosts: Jon Gabrus & Adam Pally
• Guest: Dr. Shruti Nayak, Immunologist
• Release Date: May 29, 2025
• Podcast: Staying Alive with Jon Gabrus & Adam Pally, SmartLess Media

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Introduction to Staying Alive

In this episode of Staying Alive, hosts Jon Gabrus and Adam Pally candidly discuss their personal health routines, reflecting on the need to adopt healthier habits as they navigate their early 40s. The conversation sets the stage for a deeper exploration into health and wellness with their guest, Dr. Shruti Nayak, an immunologist.

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Personal Health Routines and Lifestyle Changes

Jon and Adam begin by sharing their current health regimens:

• Jon mentions consuming multiple supplements daily, including vitamins, fish oil, fiber, and managing various medications such as antidepressants and blood pressure meds. He humorously refers to his supplement intake as "swallowing handfuls of life" (01:54).

• Adam echoes similar practices, taking a variety of vitamins and medications, highlighting their mutual commitment to improving their health (01:32).

Both hosts emphasize the importance of routines like eating breakfast to aid in taking their supplements and express a desire to normalize the conversation around health maintenance, aiming to remove the stigma associated with taking vitamins and medications.

Notable Quote:

Jon Gabrus: "You gotta do what you gotta do to stay alive." (02:28)

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Introducing Dr. Shruti Nayak: An Immunologist’s Perspective

The hosts introduce their guest, Dr. Shruti Nayak, an immunologist whose expertise lies in studying the immune system's role in various diseases and developing new treatments. Dr. Shruti provides an engaging entry into the field of immunology, clarifying misconceptions and demonstrating the interconnectedness of the immune system with overall health.

Notable Quote:

Dr. Shruti Nayak: "Immunology is sort of that unifying field that brings medicine together." (17:35)

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Dietary Adjustments: Reducing Red Meat and Embracing Vegetables

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the hosts' efforts to reduce red meat consumption and incorporate more vegetarian and cruciferous vegetables into their diets. Dr. Shruti shares her personal journey of cutting down red meat intake, noting physiological changes that come with aging and the benefits of a plant-based diet.

Notable Quotes:

Dr. Shruti Nayak: "I've really done, over the past couple of years, just cut down on my red meat intake and eat more vegetarian food." (05:55)

Adam Pally: "It's about finding a balance between enjoying life and making choices that support longevity." (03:00)

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Understanding Immunology and the Role of NIH

Dr. Shruti delves into the basics of immunology, explaining how it encompasses the study of the immune system's interaction with every cell and tissue in the body. She highlights the critical role of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) in funding research that leads to groundbreaking medical discoveries, contrasting this with the profit-driven motives of pharmaceutical companies.

Notable Quote:

Dr. Shruti Nayak: "If you want new drugs for the future, you need the NIH." (12:00)

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Challenges Facing Science Funding and Public Trust

In a follow-up segment, Dr. Shruti discusses the alarming trend of reduced funding for scientific research at the NIH, emphasizing the long-term repercussions on public health and scientific innovation. She underscores the impact of anti-science sentiments exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic, which have eroded public trust in scientific institutions.

Notable Quotes:

Dr. Shruti Nayak: "The pandemic was a huge catalyst for this anti-science sentiment." (51:31)

Jon Gabrus: "It feels like we're driving at a brick wall in a way." (47:02)

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Health Recommendations: Vegetables, Fermented Foods, and Fiber

Returning to practical advice, Dr. Shruti recommends incorporating cruciferous vegetables like broccoli, cauliflower, and spinach, as well as fermented foods such as sauerkraut, kombucha, and yogurt, to support gut health. She explains the significance of these foods in maintaining a balanced gut microbiome, which is crucial for overall immunity.

Notable Quotes:

Dr. Shruti Nayak: "Cruciferous vegetables and fermented foods are really good for you." (33:27)

Jon Gabrus: "I'm trying to up my fiber intake to improve my GI issues." (35:56)

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Balancing Science and Everyday Life

The hosts and Dr. Shruti navigate the delicate balance between scientific recommendations and maintaining a pragmatic approach to health. They discuss the challenges of integrating healthy habits into a busy lifestyle and the importance of not being overly restrictive, promoting a sustainable approach to wellness.

Notable Quote:

Dr. Shruti Nayak: "It's the science prescription, and then there's the pragmatism of your life. You can't be that hard on yourself." (39:28)

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Conclusion and Call to Action

In closing, Dr. Shruti urges listeners to support science funding by contacting congressional representatives to emphasize the importance of sustained investment in scientific research. The hosts express their appreciation for Dr. Shruti's insights and reiterate the significance of community support in advancing health and medical discoveries.

Notable Quotes:

Adam Pally: "The government funding of NIH needs to continue." (41:06)

Dr. Shruti Nayak: "We need to fund science in a way that's not connected to a profit motive." (41:28)

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Key Takeaways:

1. Personal Health Management: Incorporating supplements, reducing red meat, and increasing vegetable intake are crucial steps towards better health.
2. Understanding Immunology: The immune system plays a vital role in overall health, and immunologists work to develop new treatments and understand disease mechanisms.
3. Importance of NIH: Government-funded research at the NIH is essential for medical breakthroughs and should be supported to ensure continued advancements in healthcare.
4. Combatting Anti-Science Sentiments: Efforts must be made to rebuild public trust in science, particularly in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic.
5. Practical Health Advice: Emphasizing the consumption of cruciferous vegetables, fermented foods, and fiber can significantly benefit gut health and immunity.
6. Sustainable Wellness: Balancing scientific advice with practical, everyday habits leads to long-term health improvements without undue stress.

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Final Thoughts: This episode of Staying Alive seamlessly blends humor with serious discussions on health, science, and societal challenges. Through engaging dialogue and expert insights from Dr. Shruti Nayak, listeners are equipped with practical advice and a deeper understanding of the critical importance of supporting scientific research for a healthier future.

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Note: The timestamps referenced in the quotes correspond to moments in the transcript where notable statements were made, providing context and authenticity to the key points discussed.

Transcript

[John Gabris]

Smart, less medium. Hey, everybody.

[Adam Pally]

Sean Hayes here.

[John Gabris]

Listen, this podcast is not intended as a substitute for a physician's medical advice. My pod sons, John and Adam, are not doctors, to say the least. Listen for entertainment, not advice. Good. Okay, good.

[Adam Pally]

Enjoy the show, everybody.

[John Gabris]

And then should we just do a bunch of fake ads for companies we want to work with?

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, probably Spec ads.

[John Gabris]

We want to thank Delta, the official podcast Reebok. We just say it. I want to thank for sponsoring the podcast.

[Adam Pally]

And then you put it in Topo Chico.

[John Gabris]

And this episode is brought to you by.

[Adam Pally]

Hey, everybody. Welcome to Stayin Alive. I'm your host, Adam Pali.

[John Gabris]

I am your host, John Gabris.

[Adam Pally]

And as always, we are going to be talking to anybody and everybody who has a secret or open way that they like to stay alive.

[John Gabris]

Look, we've done a lot of stuff in our careers about partying, about consumption, and we both hit our early 40s, and it's time to maybe consider staying alive. So my question for you, Adam Pally, is what are you doing these days to stay alive?

[Adam Pally]

Well, I take a lot of pills in the morning.

[John Gabris]

Familiar with that game.

[Adam Pally]

From vitamin D to potassium to magnesium, fish oil in there, fiber, a little bit of fish oil, and then my meds. Antidepressant, adhd, reflux, statin, and blood pressure.

[John Gabris]

Okay. Yeah. I'm familiar with the pill game. I have now had to make sure I eat breakfast so I can swallow my handful of, like, life. And I got fish oil, fiber, multi C D, got two different blood pressure meds.

[Adam Pally]

Okay.

[John Gabris]

Statin incoming. Allegedly. I gotta follow up with my cardiologist to find out, but we're almost twinsies.

[Adam Pally]

We're twinsies. Yeah. And you know what I also have learned is that even though a lot of men especially don't like to admit it, a lot of men our age and women are on a similar concoction.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. You gotta do what you gotta do to stay alive.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. That's our thing. I'd like to take the stigma out of it. And instead of us all hiding our. Our little vitamin packs and our. Our.

[John Gabris]

I just got really into walking.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Like, if you're a celebrity drinking a lot of water, the classic celebrity answer. Like, oh, my God, you lost 80 pounds in six weeks. How'd you do it?

[Adam Pally]

Let's talk about our Manjaro, and let's. Let's get it all out on the table and see if it really does help you stay alive. Because so much of life is the fun that we have that limits our time here.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. We're in a very special place because we want to stay alive longer so we could do more things that shorten our lives. So we're, like, playing at it from both sides in an interesting way. Like, because I want to live longer, to do have more.

[Adam Pally]

But that's what life is, right? Isn't life a balance? So, like, you, you want to do the things that make you happy in moderation because too much of them will hurt you.

[John Gabris]

Right. And because it would make you happy to be around longer for loved ones, see more.

[Adam Pally]

And so it's about.

[John Gabris]

See where this, like, future VR porn goes.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. Cause we're close, man. I saw that robot.

[John Gabris]

I don't want to die until I can get a Fleshlight that looks like. Never mind. Whatever name said they were going to.

[Adam Pally]

Give me, whatever sponsor, honestly, will be sponsored by anyone. So whatever Fleshlight company.

[John Gabris]

Back to Sibian presents Staying Alive. We're riding.

[Adam Pally]

You're truly, like, from 1998.

[John Gabris]

I've been watching Howard for way too long, Simeon. We're going to have Chris Gethered in here, right in the city.

[Adam Pally]

We should introduce our guest today.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. I'm sure the listeners are tired of talking to us.

[Adam Pally]

Well, it's always the worst. It's like when you tune into a podcast, and then. And then you have to, like, listen to the host for the first three minutes. It's like, come on, let's.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, I'm on hour six of talking about my guitars and cats. Nobody wants that. So an immunologist.

[Adam Pally]

An immunologist. Which is. I don't know what that is. So I'm hoping to learn.

[John Gabris]

Well, hopefully they know. So let's hear what Dr. Shruti Nayak has to say.

[Adam Pally]

One, two, three. You crushed that. You've never done a podcast.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Not this kind of podcast.

[John Gabris]

What kind of a kind?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Like, I do science podcast.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. Okay. Well, we're about to get pretty serious.

[Adam Pally]

We want to know the truth here.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

But it's not, as, you know, it's not as well produced. Like, there's one mic for everyone.

[Adam Pally]

Oh, really?

[John Gabris]

There's plenty of lab coats for one mic.

[Adam Pally]

A science podcast is like when fish does freebird acapella gathered around a mic. I'm glad you got that reference. I feel like we'll be friends anyway. Welcome back to Staying Alive. I'm Adam Pally. With me is John Gabris, and we have our guest Today, the incredible Dr. Shruti Nayak.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Hi, guys. Thanks for having me.

[John Gabris]

Of course. Thanks for coming on. You are an immunologist. But before we get into what that means because we didn't have time, because.

[Adam Pally]

I have no idea. I vaguely have a recognition.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. We have producers who have told us, but we were all zoned out thinking about coffee the whole time. But before we get started, we ask all our guests this. Dr. Shruti, what do you do to stay alive?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Hmm. It's a tough question. Cause I work a lot, so it needs to be minimal effort. I think the thing I probably do and I've done, I just turned 40. So that was a big, like, preach to it waking up moment where you're like, I can't just put garbage in my body and let it be. Okay. So the thing I've really done over the past couple years, just cut down on my red meat intake and eat more vegetarian food.

[Adam Pally]

Like plant based or vegetarian food.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Like vegetarian. I'm not full vegetarian.

[Adam Pally]

Right.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Like, I still eat meat.

[Adam Pally]

Right.

[John Gabris]

But the frequency has gone down.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

The frequency has gone down significantly.

[Adam Pally]

Now, that's interesting because, you know, there's a whole obviously, like, group of people who. From Atkins on. Who have sworn by, like, meat protein.

[John Gabris]

The carnivore diet's a big thing. Especially because I'm sure you're watching this on YouTube and you've just watched eight other wellness podcasts with guys who are the color of hot dogs saying, we've done nothing but eat red meat for years.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. And so, like, so there is clearly like a discrepancy there. So, like, tell. Tell us why. Why that or what?

[John Gabris]

How it makes you feel that you've done that. You feel. Do you feel better? Because my wife's the same way. She just cut out red meat and she says she feels so much better.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

You know, it's very funny because I used to, like, love red meat. Like, there was a summer when was your jam, like, anything like, ste. Bison on it?

[Adam Pally]

Bison.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah. Oh, I love bison.

[Adam Pally]

Damn.

[John Gabris]

Damn.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah. Like, so there was a summer when I decided I was gonna give up red meat. And I went to two places where, like, you can't not eat red meat. I went to Kobe, Japan and Montana and like, I was just like, this is the worst I ever.

[Adam Pally]

That's where the bison probably was, right?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah. Yeah. And like, those are my two favorite places. But I look back at that summer and now I can't imagine eating that much red meat in a summer. It just. I think your physiology changes. Right? Your body, like, aging is a real thing, of course. And that hits you like a rock.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, for me, I call it like, I went through a thickening. You Know what I mean?

[John Gabris]

Like, blood thickening, blood thickening away. Thickening.

[Adam Pally]

Everything just got thick. My skull, my skull. Like I was a. Not. Not a liver, not a. I was neither way nor. Nor chunky, nor skinny. But then you hit this age where you're just like, wow, I'm thick. Like, it takes a lot to get from one side of me to the other, you know?

[John Gabris]

Well, you're even saying something like, I'm sure a lot of people, as they get a little older, can imagine, like, where people are. Like, I can't drink like I used to. I can't run like I used to. I need to get seven and a half hours sleep or else I'm a zombie, right? But now, you know, you're getting to a certain age when you're like, oh, I can't eat that. I'll be laid up like, I used to eat Taco Bell like three days a week if I have it now, once I have to call out sick for a month.

[Adam Pally]

Oh, yeah. Oh, a sandwich could kill me.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah, the fire.

[Adam Pally]

If I eat it too fast, if I eat it regular sandwich too fast, it could be the end.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

But science tells us this, right? Like, so what we've realized is that we age into sort of spurts. Spurts. One is around your 40s and then one is around your mid-60s.

[Adam Pally]

Okay, those are way too close together.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

I know, I know.

[John Gabris]

Because once you're we. I had that 40s one and I am at the top of a hill and I see 65 down at 60.

[Adam Pally]

Being like, that's where I'm going to change again. Let's push that back a little bit. I mean, that's terrifying.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Enjoy your 40s.

[John Gabris]

Yes. That's. Oh, I enjoyed my 20s and 30s. I'm trying to lock up in my.

[Adam Pally]

Oh, my God. The way you looked at me right there, you were just like, enjoy your 40s because your 50s are going to be hell. Could it turn that fast? I mean, when am I going to have a heart attack?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Oh, my God.

[Adam Pally]

I mean, look at. Look at me.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

You're like, quarter. Yeah, look at me. Hopefully never, right?

[Adam Pally]

You didn't say that at first. Your response was, oh, my God, am I going to have to tell this guy when he's going to have a heart attack? At rxbar, they believe in simple nutrition without the bs. That's why they said no to artificial.

[John Gabris]

Ingredients and yes to deliver intentional transparent nutrition.

[Adam Pally]

Try their original 12 gram protein bar, the nut butter and oat bar, or Minis RXBar. The proud sponsor of no BS. Use code RXBar on RXBar.com for 25% off, subject to full terms and conditions and to change. Valid until September 30, 2025, and may not be combined with other offers. See rxbar.com for full details and limitations. So you're not eating red meat and you've gone through your. Let's not call it a thickening. Let's call it like your awakening, right? You hit 40, that death is that the things that you're doing could affect when you die. Essentially, right now, immunologically, you're not thinking.

[John Gabris]

About that in your 20s, right?

[Adam Pally]

No. In your 20s and your 30s, you're thinking, just like, what is fun? What is good? What is life? How do I stave off depressed?

[John Gabris]

I couldn't even picture 40 when I was 28. When I was 28, people who were 40 were so old to me. And now that I'm 42, I'm like, get this fucking 20.

[Adam Pally]

You ever hear the Jimmy Buffett song, A pirate looks at 40? It's really. I mean, I'm not a parrot head or anything. I'm just saying it's a good way to.

[John Gabris]

Anyway, you mentioned fish and Jimmy muffins. So far, you are practically 65.

[Adam Pally]

Anyway, what I was going to ask you as an immunologist is how much of that is genetic? You know, like, how screwed are we off the bat?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah. So should I explain what immunology is before.

[Adam Pally]

Oh, that'd be great. We forgot to do that.

[John Gabris]

I'm assuming the listeners might already know, but we at least don't. So we have to hear it.

[Adam Pally]

It means something about doctors, right?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yes. I'm a mouse doctor, by the way.

[Adam Pally]

What does that mean?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

So I don't cure humans. I cure mice. I'm a research scientist.

[John Gabris]

Thank God we were running low on mice.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yes, I know, I. But. So essentially, my job. Let's take a step back. Like, where do your medicines come from?

[John Gabris]

Cvs.

[Adam Pally]

Oh, I just heard about this. Mostly Puerto Rico.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

But who discovers them? Who tests them?

[John Gabris]

Oh, that's a good question.

[Adam Pally]

Pfizer or the big, big, big, big Pharma.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

So, actually, the people who discover them are people like me. They're research scientists, and they're funded by the nih, and we make these discoveries that are really unencumbered by a profit motive.

[Adam Pally]

What is the nih?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

So the National Institutes of Health, America's laboratory is government funded. Government funded.

[John Gabris]

For now.

[Adam Pally]

For now? I was gonna say, let's soon to be Amazon's nih Mark Cuban's gonna run it. The Dallas Maverick nih.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

But you know, that's really scary.

[Adam Pally]

Oh yeah, it's terrifying.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

People always think that all of the new drugs in the world come from pharma. Right. And the truth is pharma is great at scaling up drugs. They don't make new discoveries. If you want new drugs for the future, if you want to live forever, if you want to even understand what are the things that you can do in a scientific way, not like, I'm a billionaire and this worked for me in a really controlled, carefully studied way. You need the nih. So I'm an NIH funded scientist and my job is to really test different interventions or try to understand disease, things like aging, things like chronic inflammation and come up with new treatments that don't exist. So it's basically the future of medicine, right?

[John Gabris]

You are trying to find new medicine.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Exactly, exactly.

[John Gabris]

That's awesome.

[Adam Pally]

That's like.

[John Gabris]

I mean, I want to take a moment to thank all the mice that went into making adenotope.

[Adam Pally]

In a lot of ways, we've been not properly showering the mice with their flowers. Yeah, let's give the mice, let's have a moment for those mouse. In a lot, a lot of ways, they're first responders, those mice.

[John Gabris]

Some would say the choices of mice and men oft go a glay.

[Adam Pally]

One particular writer would say that. Yeah, I think so. It's so interesting, Dr. Naik, and really helpful. And so I'll go back to my question again because I'm interested in this part of it as well, because it feels like genetically people are always battling. Right. Like people are saying, well, I don't metabolize that way, or this is just the way I'm built, or be happy with my body however it is.

[John Gabris]

Or like everyone in my family has heart disease.

[Adam Pally]

Exactly. Whatever it is, like there's a genetic. You know, again, are you screwed from the jump?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah. So genetics does account for part of it. Right. There are some diseases that are truly genetic. Like you can inherit certain types of genes that predispose you to cancer, and that's going to be a big no. No. But your environment, your lifestyle, all of these things also play a big role. So.

[John Gabris]

And arguably your environment and your lifestyle could be quasi inherited as well.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yes.

[John Gabris]

Like nature versus nurture.

[Adam Pally]

Like, you know, if my how predisposed you to alcoholism.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Am I predisposed to alcoholism because I have the same brain as my dad, the same liver as my dad, or because I lived in the house that he Was an alcoholic in.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Right.

[John Gabris]

And so that is. So I guess I want to say I thought immunology was solely, like, the study of the immune system. I just want to come out there and say, well, how wrong I was in my head.

[Adam Pally]

Well, I guess it's. It's way more, like, ethically involved than that. Right. Because in a lot of ways, it's the study of one's immune system versus what they intake and what they. Right. Like, it's like the battle of. Of one's genetic immune system versus what they can do to elongate their life, essentially.

[John Gabris]

I don't know why, but right now, in my head, I have an image of a mouse with a sword and a shield and, like, a bunch of germs flying.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, yeah. Like.

[John Gabris]

Like a frontline warrior for health.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. Like, I have an image of a mouse. It was like. Like in the rubble of 911 in, like, a fire. You know what I mean? Like, standing amongst the rubble of 9 11.

[John Gabris]

Wait, all right, this is a complete aside, and I'm sorry.

[Adam Pally]

Wait, would 911 had happened. Would 911 have happened if Mouse Wahlberg was there?

[John Gabris]

Say hello to your cat for me. The.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

I want to hire you to brand my, Like, I mean, the idea of a frontline mouse defender. Right?

[Adam Pally]

I mean, honestly, I'm looking for work.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

All right? I don't think I can afford you, but, you know, you'd be surprised.

[Adam Pally]

You'd be surprised.

[John Gabris]

Seriously, I'm a movie star.

[Adam Pally]

I am a legit movie star. They're like, you think I'm happy about this? I like five people who can get a movie made. I'm one of them. And here. This is what I'm doing.

[John Gabris]

I don't have anything better to do, but I'm here. Wait, quick aside about. You said rubble and mouse. There are trained rats that have little backpacks with GPS on them that they can train to chase down people inside. Building collapses, and they show up, and then their GPS pings when they get there, and they run back for a treat, and they're able to, like, track the person. But imagine you are, like, pinned under the rubble and a little rat with a backpack, and you're like, oh, my.

[Adam Pally]

God, is there a little school in here? Little rat school.

[John Gabris]

He drives away on a motorcycle.

[Adam Pally]

Then one of the rats in the backpack walks up to, like, one of the other ones with glasses and knocks the black and nerd.

[John Gabris]

Oh, man, it's a bummer. It's happening in every stage of society. Did you always know you wanted to study immunology in this way. Was this, like, a little kid thing? Was this a. Is this an inherited trait? Is this a. Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

What's your origin story? Did you get sick and you were like, the doctors missed it. And you're like, I'll never let that happen again.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Oh, it's actually none of the above.

[John Gabris]

Oh.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

It's actually very atypical for scientists.

[Adam Pally]

Oh, okay.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Oh, wait. I just want to clarify one thing. Immunology is the study of the immune system.

[Adam Pally]

Oh. So you were right, Gabris.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

And it's. And the immune system is. The reason I make new medicines is because the immune system is in every tissue of your body. Everywhere. Every cell in your body has at one point touched an immune cell, and so it's part of every disease. And so.

[John Gabris]

Oh, wow.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Immunology is sort of that unifying field that brings medicine together.

[John Gabris]

Oh, cool. I'm so happy to be right once.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

No, you were totally spot on.

[John Gabris]

It's the last time. Let's just print it.

[Adam Pally]

But me just like a man went right in and corrected you.

[John Gabris]

Actually, I believe.

[Adam Pally]

I went to the university of know nothing.

[John Gabris]

And anyway, two of the loudest, most obnoxious guys interviewing doctors is going to be tough. Over 40 episodes, it's going to be tough.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Anyway, I think it's fun, guys.

[Adam Pally]

Are you having a good time?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah. You're so fun. I mean, you're doing your job. You're funny.

[Adam Pally]

Oh, thanks. Well, so.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. What's your immunology?

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. What's your immunologist origin story? Did disease kill your father?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

No, no, disease did not kill my father. I think his crazy wife did, but that's a different story.

[Adam Pally]

We'll get into that in a second.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

That's a different story.

[Adam Pally]

We'll get into that in a second.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

So I actually really want it to be a standup comic.

[Adam Pally]

Get out of here. You have a really good. I will say. And you chose wisely. I hate to take the words out of your mouth, but you do have a good presence about you. I could see you being really easy to watch.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Oh, yeah.

[John Gabris]

And you have a great voice.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Like literal voice.

[Adam Pally]

Maybe you should think about it.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, if you want to take a 95 pay cut, and I'm sure immunologists aren't the rich kind of doctors, but I'll tell you what, comedy, unless you're ready to, you know, have right wing politicians on your podcast, you're never.

[Adam Pally]

You're never gonna make it. But. But I will shout out all of you. I will say that once Once your government funded operation gets shut down, you might want to think about doing a five minute set at the Cellar.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Okay.

[Adam Pally]

Why not move to Austin, Texas?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah. And this was like high school. I was like in the improv team. Whatever.

[Adam Pally]

Cool.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Never took a science class. I was not very good at school and I was a little stoned. And just something on PBS came on that had to do with glow in the Dark bacteria. And this woman who I now know, she's amazing, she's at Princeton. This woman named Bonnie Baxler was looking at how bacteria function. So we always think of bacteria as like doing their own thing, right? Every bacteria does its own thing. It's not a multicellular organism like us. But Bonnie had figured, or Dr. Bachelor had figured out, since we're being so proper.

[John Gabris]

She's Bonnie to us.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

She's Bonnie.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, keep going, Dr. Nyak.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

She's so cool. Oh my God, please call me Shruti. Like, now that I've done the first shru.

[John Gabris]

My gals, I have no idea. Met you once. We're talking about you at parties. Well, my buddy Bonnie, she ducks radioactive bacteria.

[Adam Pally]

She's an immunologist, but she's funny.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Thank you for that. Oh my God. I feel so validated right now that when there were many bacteria, they could sense their density and started glowing in the dark, Right? And it's this thing called quorum sensing. They can sense when they're a quorum and they literally glow in the dark. And you know when you're high and you're like. You're just like, oh my God. Freaking glow in the dark bacteria.

[Adam Pally]

Sing it to my.

[John Gabris]

Dammit, why did I get high and put on pornhub when I got high? Put on pbs.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

You should become a doctor.

[John Gabris]

You should have been watching.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Exactly. You should have been watching pbs.

[Adam Pally]

And so it sparked something.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah. And so I just, you know. And so from bacteria, I became really interested in how our bodies interact with microbes because. Okay, trigger warning for germaphobes. We're like covered in bacteria. They're in and on us. They're everywhere.

[Adam Pally]

You never get rid of them all. Look like a motel room investigation with the lights on. Right?

[John Gabris]

Don't shine a black light for germs.

[Adam Pally]

Over here or anything. I'm covered and stuff.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

But the thing is, it's actually good for you to an extent, Right? So people that are. There's this idea out there called a hygiene hypothesis, where if you're too clean, you're like more prone to allergies, Right?

[Adam Pally]

Right. Now this now, like I've heard of this even, like, I remember when I had children, they were like, do you want to clean their eyes out when they're first born? You know? And I'm like, ye. And they're like, you sure? And I was like, yes. And they're like, because sometimes parents. I was like, you know, just do it. You know, but, you know, there's.

[John Gabris]

Save the eye gunk, please, so I can put it in a jar. This is my firstborn's eye.

[Adam Pally]

There is a lot of that, you know, especially in young parenting and stuff. So my right, I guess, like, that is a question of, like, how you don't want to be too clean.

[John Gabris]

My mom is a nurse, and she claims the reason why me and my brothers don't have allergies or anything is because she was coming home from the hospital every day to us, and, like, she was being exposed to so many germs and then bringing the home. And we, you know, not to be that guy who's like, I'm an elder, a millennial, but, like, we were feral children, more or less. Just, like, hard rolling around.

[Adam Pally]

Like, however, I will poise this. And now we're getting into a touchy subject. How does immunization affect that? Because, you know, we haven't decided if.

[John Gabris]

We'Re pro Vax or anti Vax is a pod. We're waiting to see who wants to advertise.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. Like, honestly, I. I'll say this right now, like, I'm that question to the gills.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, I'm boosted. I'm boosted.

[Adam Pally]

I'm vaxxed. I'm. I'm all of them. But if someone would like to pay me to tell people not to vax.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Oh, no, I'll do it in a heartbeat.

[Adam Pally]

I'll do it like that. Call me Theo Vaughn, because I'm ready to spout it.

[John Gabris]

Welcome back. We are saying bald eagle meat is the only way to fight.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, no joke.

[John Gabris]

Get your bald eagle meat at promo code. Staying alive.

[Adam Pally]

Best you can do is shoot one out of the sky. No, but. But for real, like, how much of immunization does affect that, you know, especially as a child who is immunized to the gills. And I'm assuming your mother was a nurse, was immunized. Yeah, everybody got immunized at that age.

[John Gabris]

So I don't know anybody with polio.

[Adam Pally]

Right, exactly. So. But I do know some people with kids with measles. So, like, how does that all translate, you know?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah. So there's a little bit of a difference. Right. What do we know? About like what dirt is good, right? I think the kind of dirt, like running around in your backyard. There's a lot of evidence that kids that grow up on farms or have dogs have lower levels of allergy. Like just epidemiological data. Right. So that kind of thing.

[John Gabris]

Dogs make sense too.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

I mean, my kids are constantly licking my dog. Usually it's the other way around.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

As a doctor, can you look down.

[John Gabris]

The barrel and say, I recommend you lick your dog?

[Adam Pally]

Usually it's the other way around, but my kids love licking my dog.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah, I mean, you know, I know.

[John Gabris]

At my house we put peanut butter on my dog's balls. Sorry, Trina.

[Adam Pally]

I don't know how else to get my son to lick it.

[John Gabris]

He's trained so well trained now.

[Adam Pally]

As soon as the peanut butter comes out.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

How old are your kids? Are they old enough to 31?

[John Gabris]

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[John Gabris]

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[Adam Pally]

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[John Gabris]

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[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

But your question about vaccination is a really good one. Right. Because that's another way of activating your immune system. But what vaccination does it. It activates it very specifically. So that's why you have to get a different vaccine to smallpox and a different vaccine to measles.

[Adam Pally]

So it's giving you a little of it right inside your body and then you're fighting it off.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

And now you're immune. It give. Well, it's not just that you're fighting it off, but you're remembering that vaccine so your immune system can remember.

[John Gabris]

Poster for where it's like, don't let this in. You're.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. But for some reason, Covid is like an old timey villain in my body that like gets in there and lays a woman down on the train tracks every few months.

[John Gabris]

I will say I'm. I'm. I'm boosted to the gills. And I've been fighting. I've been fighting strong with travel. I mean, I'm. I'm mask on planes now.

[Adam Pally]

Me too. I'm so.

[John Gabris]

I can't look. Is this your life? I see someone cough and I see like the blue mist from like science projection. Yeah, yeah. I see like someone coughs on the plane and I just see like the blue dots in the air. And since COVID and I never thought about this beforehand, now when, like, I'm like, this person is disgusting. They're not covering their mouth. I'm like so overwhelmed by it now.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. I mean, so how do you, how do you walk around knowing that, you know what I mean? All the time, like, do you take the train?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

I take the train. I work at a hospital. Yeah. I mean, in the winter, I definitely.

[Adam Pally]

You mask up.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah, I want to mask up. Because it's not just Covid. Like, a lot of things go around. Influenza, rsv, Los Angeles. Yeah, exactly. Air quality. So, you know, I mask up.

[John Gabris]

And also if you mask up on the subway, when you get that empty subway car that you don't realize is because there's a shit.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

There's shit in there.

[John Gabris]

Now you have a mask, you can sit.

[Adam Pally]

You can sit right in the shit.

[John Gabris]

You wouldn't even know. Wear full ppe and you can sit wherever the hell you want.

[Adam Pally]

That's Why I always walk on the train and outbreak Hazmat.

[John Gabris]

See, you got one of those showers put in front of your house where you get like, get misted as you.

[Adam Pally]

Every time I come home, it's like silo.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

I mean, but a New Yorker would never walk in an empty car. No, you know, you kind of.

[John Gabris]

It's either the air conditioning's broken or someone has used, or there's two people having sex in there, or one person having sex.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

One person.

[Adam Pally]

Probably more like one. And a mouse with a shield. I thought the car was empty.

[John Gabris]

Why did they trade me for. This is.

[Adam Pally]

So you talked a little bit about smoking weed. And that's a. A pastime of ours. A daily hobby, however you want to phrase it. A pastime. I'm trying to. We're both actively trying to.

[John Gabris]

We're reducing our.

[Adam Pally]

Reducing our consumption so that we can enjoy it more and also not be dependent on it. All those things that you, you know, seek to do to better your life. But clearly, as someone who openly has smoked marijuana in the past, you know, like, what. What's like a cheat day for you? Like, and when you do it, like, when you have a glass of wine, are you instantly like, oh, I shouldn't have done that, or do you have the same human response that anyone does where it's like, well, it's a night out and I'll recover. Like, how does it work for someone.

[John Gabris]

Who take a hit of weed? I'm ordering a 76 ounce porterhouse. Fuck this red meat shit.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

We're going to Keens. Yeah, like that. My biggest problem with weed is the munchies. Like, it's not the weed because you just end up eating. You're like, I want everything.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. I become almost indestructible. I wish, I wish I had smoke activated cabinets that like, lock down. Like a bad guy palace, like, unrolls whenever I take a hit.

[Adam Pally]

I always was envious of the stoners who were. Who were like, oh, it helps me concentrate better.

[John Gabris]

Like, or the ones who are like, whenever I get high, I just want.

[Adam Pally]

To hike or go, yeah, I can get stuff done. I'm always like, really? Like, can you get high and come over and put my IKEA desk together?

[John Gabris]

Like, when I get high, I just want to ask my wife if she hates me.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, that's true. Because I got to get it out in the open. So I'm not paranoid, you see, I'm not paranoid. Anyway, so, like, what are. What's like an example of a cheat for you? Like a. Like a Where you. Not like a crazy weekend, but, like, what's something that you indulge in and you enjoy?

[John Gabris]

Because this is another line we want to talk to our guests about is we know what is healthy. Sorry. We know what is healthy for us, but sometimes we just have to make the choice that is for happiness. Or, like, it's worth. You know, I'm doing. It's worth the. Jesus. I'm too Italian for this podcast.

[Adam Pally]

You're too Italian to be on a podcast. It's self care. You know, it's like, one of the things that everybody says is, like, you gotta take care of yourself. And for me, like, that means an omakase with a paired sake and beer. How does. Like, what's that for you? You know, like.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah, definitely down for the omakase.

[Adam Pally]

You live in New York City?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yes.

[Adam Pally]

Where do you go?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Joji.

[Adam Pally]

Where's Joji?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Oh, my God.

[John Gabris]

Let's go tonight.

[Adam Pally]

Let's go.

[John Gabris]

Where is tomorrow night?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Your life is about to change.

[Adam Pally]

Tell me.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

You're welcome.

[Adam Pally]

Change. I love that my life's about to change. From the immunologist when she gives me a better omakaze. Not like the immunologist.

[John Gabris]

Honestly, the most important takeaway from this conversation is going to be that I try this. I don't do any of the health shit.

[Adam Pally]

I do try the omakaze.

[John Gabris]

Dr. Shruti's a genius.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

No, it's amazing. So this guy used to be a sous chef at Masa, which I'm not a fan of. Masa. That's okay. Just putting it. So it's two blocks away. It's in one Vanderbilt belt.

[Adam Pally]

Oh, so this is, like, major sushi. Because this is, like, business sushi. We're into the business sushi dish.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

No, it's actually really amazing, though.

[Adam Pally]

Really?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

So it's omakase, but this guy uses all these amazing techniques. Like, you know how normally in sushi places, when they char the sushi, they, like, just use a little burner? This guy pulls out a sword that's, like, heated and then puts, like, a heat gun.

[Adam Pally]

I like that. Cause, you know, I don't like the flame gun. Because it tastes like butane.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah, exactly. The swart. Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Tastes like a dab.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

So good.

[Adam Pally]

And I'm already dabbed up. I'll give you a place. I don't know where you live in New York.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

I live 10 blocks away.

[Adam Pally]

Okay. So you can get there. My. I. I don't live 10 blocks away, but my daughter has volleyball on the Upper east side quite frequently, so I Found myself there for long periods of time waiting for her to get out of volleyball. And I found this place. Sushi nas.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Oh yes. I love it in the 70s. Oh yeah. Down here place is good.

[Adam Pally]

And you can stand. They have two omakases. They have the one which is like the sit down dinner or what I do is you can get the hand roll omakase where you stand and they pour you sake and beer. You're just standing. It goes a lot.

[John Gabris]

Your dad should be here any minute. You just show up with like mercury poisoning to get your daughter up. Sorry, honey crab in my beard. You have like a to go cup of roe to row cup.

[Adam Pally]

I'm banging lines of it.

[John Gabris]

Can I get go to row?

[Adam Pally]

That's so funny. So as an immunologist, like, what are the things that you would prescribe as, like, here's a quick way to feel better. You know, people walk around, I feel like a lot in both a mental haze due to their phone and. And then a physical haze due to the amount of microplastics in our test. And you know, I, Robert Kenny, will fix it. But like, what do you.

[John Gabris]

What's like, get the microplastics out of your balls.

[Adam Pally]

When you listen how good my voice is now. When you, when you first encounter someone at a party, like we do, and they're like, tell us a joke and. And you just want to give them a quick thing, they're like, here's what I would say to feel better. What's like your, your. Your hip shot advice?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah. I mean, I hate to say this, but like Christopher's vegetables. Really good for you. And Christopher's vegetables. And does that mean like leafy greens? Yeah, like, like broccolis, spinach, cauliflower. Anything that's like kale? No, like anything that's the things that aren't it. Yeah, those are leafy vegetables.

[John Gabris]

Okay.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Cruciferous is like anything that's tree vegetable. Yeah, like that. It looks like a cauliflower. Yeah, like cauliflower.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Things that are fermented are really good for you. Sauerkraut, kombucha, kimchi. Yeah, Kombucha. Yeah. Yogurt. Really good thing.

[Adam Pally]

I want to get kombucha back in my diet.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Like, those are all things that sort of feed your gut bacteria.

[Adam Pally]

So the gut bacteria craze is real.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah, yeah. No, that's legit. Like, I mean, so if you take a mouse and put it on a hamburger diet, you see it's bacteria change in like, like three days. And then you see its Metabolism just go down.

[John Gabris]

Whoa.

[Adam Pally]

So what's good for the mouse?

[John Gabris]

What's good for the mouse is good for the man.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Cruciferous vegetables. So all the things I said, actually.

[Adam Pally]

And why do they want cheese so bad?

[John Gabris]

I gotta start putting broccoli in a trap.

[Adam Pally]

I gotta put broccoli in my trap because the mouse that I'm chasing is swole.

[John Gabris]

I keep putting little bear bell protein bars down there. Promo code. Staying alive. No idea if they're sponsors doing spec ads.

[Adam Pally]

I'm trying to get this mouse out of the walls I built in a tiny gym.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. Oh. So of course vegetables are good for you, right?

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, I guess it's just, like, the specific kinds because, like, I'll go into a juice press. You know what I mean? And there's, like, different kinds of green drinks or whatever. And. And I always go for, like, the spinach kale. I always thought that was the most collard greens. Like, I thought that was the one that was healthy, but now I know it's really the ones of the flowering.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

I mean, those are also healthy.

[Adam Pally]

But what's better for your gut?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Probably the cruciferous ones.

[John Gabris]

But you don't see a lot of broccoli juices at juice bars. Cause I don't think it juices as well as the.

[Adam Pally]

Why doesn't it juice as well? Cause of the tops, I think.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. Who knows?

[Adam Pally]

Can't you juice any? Like, why couldn't you Broccoli juice?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

I mean, I'm sure you could. They just have more fiber than fluid.

[Adam Pally]

Right. So you really want to get that roughage.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

You want the fiber?

[John Gabris]

Yeah. Like, that's something I'm trying to add in 2025 is. I'm trying to up my. A friend of mine who's a bit of a nutritionist was like. He's like, if you. Before you even try cutting stuff out of your diet, add X amount of servings of vegetables a day, and you'll have to cut other stuff out to make room for all the extra vegetables. And he's like. And it'll do wonders because I have, like, some GI issues. Like, anyone who's overweight and consumes whatever they want whenever they want.

[Adam Pally]

I mean, I take. I take metamorphosis musil. I'm an open metamucilium.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

I just started. I love it.

[Adam Pally]

I love it.

[John Gabris]

Psyllium whole husk guy. Which I believe is like, a very similar.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah, that's so hard to swallow.

[John Gabris]

Like, it's like, I'm a bro.

[Adam Pally]

But the metamucil. But the Amount of Metamucil. If you look at the back, it's interesting how much they tell you to take. It's like more than you think. It's like four tablets in the morning and four at night. I'm somewhere in the middle of that. But like, I. I like Metamucil a lot. I think it's like the key, the secret. Like, if someone were to ask me how to stay alive, I would say Metamucil is like a really quick hack back to feel better.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Actually, that's a really good point. Maybe I should switch my answer to that look at daddy. Yeah, it's a lot easier than you.

[John Gabris]

Just take my answer for this one.

[Adam Pally]

Look at the man.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, that's. I wanted to ask one. One more question before we let you get out of here. And we're not actually gonna let you go anywhere. You're gonna stay and help us turn our lives around.

[Adam Pally]

We're not clients.

[John Gabris]

We wanna be mice.

[Adam Pally]

How do I get this job of a mice being fed hamburgers?

[John Gabris]

Want the little backpack and fill me up with beef?

[Adam Pally]

Do they put the little hamburgers in the mice's backpack?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

No, they don't. Unfortunately, we don't have little mousy backpacks.

[Adam Pally]

Moober. How do you call Moober?

[John Gabris]

Is there any behavior or things that you no longer do that you cut out that was something of your 20s?

[Adam Pally]

That either, like, besides red meat?

[John Gabris]

Yeah, besides red meat. That either that old age is set or that learning what you've learned over the years of like. Well, now I do blank is just like, not necessarily advice for people, but a way you've made a change based on what you've learned or. Or over the years.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah, I would say I sleep a lot more. It's so good for you.

[Adam Pally]

Genuine's into the sleeping.

[John Gabris]

That is one of my. That's a big one for me.

[Adam Pally]

Are you wearing an aura ring?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

No. No. I have mixed feelings about it.

[Adam Pally]

Why? What are your mixed feelings about the aura ring?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Well, so it's really great for you tracking your data, but it's also really great for other people tracking your data. Oh, yeah. I mean, whatever. I guess privacy's a farce.

[John Gabris]

But there's also the element of everyone's.

[Adam Pally]

Got their own way. Weird.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Some people get too obsessed with the numbers. Like, I can't do it because I'd be too in my head.

[Adam Pally]

Anxiety.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, I'd be like, I only got 89. Well, there's no point cancel the day.

[Adam Pally]

You know, the anxiety of it would bother me too. Especially, like, I've. My kids are just old enough now where I can, like, sleep full nights and stuff. And I find my sleep affected so much by alcohol. So it's like the number one thing that affects my sleep that I. The anxiety that I would have wearing an aura ring, knowing that I've taken a drink. Drink would throw me. I would just be a mess.

[John Gabris]

That's one of the biggest things I've noticed since I've cut back. My drinking has been. My sleep is so much better.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Like, I wake up, like, feeling rested. I had my old powerlifting coach said that sleep is the second most anabolic thing you could do for your body besides anabolic steroids. But second to get a Marvel movie. Yeah. Second to getting kitted out at Balco in the 90s. The second best thing you could do is sleep well.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

I mean, but I think it's also. There's, like, this is the science prescription, and then there's the pragmatism of your life. Right. You can't be that hard on yourself.

[John Gabris]

I think getting that.

[Adam Pally]

That's a hard thing to balance. I mean, do you. Do you in. In. In the work you do with the mice, do the mice ever say to you, like, God, I feel bad that I didn't get the eight hours of sleep? Or, like, you know what I mean?

[John Gabris]

Like, sorry I didn't find the. Sorry I didn't solve that maze fast enough. I'm just grabbing myself.

[Adam Pally]

I haven't had my coffee yet. I haven't had my coffee yet.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

I will say, like, our mice are the most well cared for. They get more. More medical and personal attention than like, I have my entire life. So that's never gonna happen.

[Adam Pally]

I am so narcissistic and vain. I just found myself being jealous of a test mouse. When you're like, there's.

[John Gabris]

I can really center myself in almost any conversation. I was like, that mouse.

[Adam Pally]

Like, when you said, they're cared for, I was like, that must be. That must be really nice.

[John Gabris]

Well, doctor, I can stop calling you Dr. Shudy. Thank you so much for coming on Staying Alive and helping Adam and I.

[Adam Pally]

Stay alive listeners.

[John Gabris]

Stay alive.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. And I hope I. Again, we will say, like, this is not advice. This is just how you stay alive. And similarly, like, if you. If you were at a party full of mice and one came up to you and was like, how do I stay alive? This is what you tell that mouth.

[John Gabris]

You say, well, don't go hang out with her. She's doing tests already. Yeah, go away from this is more of a question for when we have comedian guests on. But is there anything that you'd like to plug any organization that you work with or any like, you know, I don't even know what that would mean. Or like, check out my. Do you have a twitch channel?

[Adam Pally]

Let's say this to. Also to the American people.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yes.

[Adam Pally]

Before you go, I'll say it on your behalf and then you can do whatever you want with it. But like the government funding of NIH needs to continue.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

It seems important, guys.

[Adam Pally]

It seems important, right? Like, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah. You want to find cures for the disease that you have, that your children have, that your aging parents are confronting as our population ages. We need to fund science and we need to do it in a way that's not connected to a profit motive.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. Almost like we should get private business out of human health.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yes. It's not about, you know, it's not about which, you know, if you're an elephant or a donkey and what you. It's about human health.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. No, agreed. And I think that, I hope that the American people realize that as we go forward into this next four years.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah. Thank you so much for pitching that.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on here and having a grown up. This is one of the most grown up conversations I think Adam and I.

[Adam Pally]

Have ever had in my life.

[John Gabris]

Don't worry, as soon as you leave, we will go back to child minds and just keep talking about who's. Who has better pot.

[Adam Pally]

No. I'm glad. No. And you know what? And it's. We could have talked to you. I could talk to you for hours about stuff like stem cell research and pro life versus pro. And there's so much, so much controversial shit. So much controversial shit I could get into. But I truly feel like that we'll have you on again. I want to. I wanted the immediate. You know how they say, like, fix your village before you fix the world? Like, I, I think it's so important just for everybody to like realize, oh, if I cut out red meat, maybe it could just be a my energy.

[John Gabris]

You know, and for, for any of you crazy absolutists out there that are like, I'll never give up red meat. Eat it one less day a week.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

You don't have to give it up.

[John Gabris]

See if you feel any better, eat it too. I've. I've gotten it. It's now a treat food. It's not part of my.

[Adam Pally]

So to Wrap it up. Let's cut down on our red meat. Let's add cruciferous vegetables.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Metamucil. No, we're changing it to Metamucil.

[Adam Pally]

To Metamucil. Or psyllium wholehouse.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Or fiber.

[Adam Pally]

Or fiber of some sort. And a. And a. Chris, how do you pronounce it?

[John Gabris]

Cruciferous. Crucifix.

[Adam Pally]

Cruciferous vegetable.

[John Gabris]

When you get into it, that's one that has Jesus on it. Like this.

[Adam Pally]

You get them in Rio. Well, it's been a pleasure, doc. Thank you so much.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Thank you for having me, guys. It was so much fun.

[John Gabris]

All right, listeners, do us a favor and stay alive.

[Adam Pally]

Is that what we're doing?

[John Gabris]

Nope. Because I actually want the opposite for our listeners. Yeah, see you in hell.

[Adam Pally]

See you in hell, you pieces of.

[John Gabris]

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[John Gabris]

Location the lab. Quentin only has 24 hours to sell his car. Is that even possible? He goes to Carvana.com.

[Adam Pally]

What is this, a movie trailer?

[John Gabris]

He ignores the doubters, enters his license plate.

[Adam Pally]

Wow, that's a great offer.

[John Gabris]

The car is sold, but will Carvana pick it up in time?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

They'll literally pick pick it up tomorrow morning. Done with the dramatics.

[John Gabris]

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[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Save your time.

[Adam Pally]

Go to Carvana.com and sell your car today. Pickup fees may apply.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

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[John Gabris]

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[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

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[John Gabris]

Hello, listeners. Okay, so our interview with Shruti was one of the first things we recorded way back in January. And when we talked, it was only a few days after the inauguration. But now that These episodes are coming, coming out. We want to check back to see how she's doing, how the NIH is doing, and how the future of immunology looks in this current climate. We also just like talking to her. So here's a quick catch up with Dr. Shruti Naik. Things have changed in the government science world. And Shruti, we wanted to have you back on the podcast to get an update how things are looking at the nih.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

What's happening over there at the nih, if anything anymore more.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah. Thanks for having me back, guys. I think things have changed. I think all over the world, we're feeling it. And I think science is, is no different. But, but I, you know, I guess I'm just here to sort of highlight that we won't feel the effects of what's happening at the NIH or the CDC or the FDA overnight, but losing our disease monitoring for new, new viruses, for new pandemics, losing essentially, you know, research into vaccines, research into viruses, because apparently there's no more Covid. But what about the next Covid, Right?

[Adam Pally]

Like, yeah, it's funny because I have Covid right now.

[John Gabris]

That's good to know.

[Adam Pally]

100.

[John Gabris]

This is so. This is so upsetting. This is like in the movies when they're like, what do you mean? We have no research on that. It's like, sir, you're the one who stopped the research. And now we're dealing with it, and it just feels like we're driving at a brick wall in a way. And how much money are they really saving? Like, poor Shruti's rats? Let them, you know, let them eat cheese.

[Adam Pally]

And your poor rats, are they okay? What has happened with them?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

The mice are okay. I will say mice, Gabriel.

[John Gabris]

Casual, casual, casual. Correction there.

[Adam Pally]

Microaggression.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, my mice are fine. Not all mice are rats, Pals. What did I tell you? Your mind?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

No, but you know what is really scary is the cutting funding isn't just around viruses. You know, Alzheimer's research is getting cut, cancer research is getting cut. And what that means is that people, future generations of scientists, are being affected. We're already seeing that. Scientists coming into graduate school, coming into research, are deciding, are thinking about if this is the right career for them.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, they're all going into cryptocurrency instead.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Exactly. Actually, dogecoin is winning. You know.

[John Gabris]

This is disheartening. It's disheartening. It's terrifying. And it feels like I don't even see, like, the positive side of, like, what anyone's like, oh cool, we have like another 800 in an account in like a government account somewhere. Well, it's gonna, we're gonna blow it all when swine flu hits. Swine flu 2, electric boost, boogaloo.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

It's not even that you're saving money because we know that every dollar that goes into NIH funding comes back threefold, right? 97 billion in economic growth. People, jobs are at risk. And this is not just federal jobs. Jobs across the country at universities and institutions. Biotech and pharma rely on these discoveries. So the biomedical research enterprise is actually a huge economic engine in this country. Jesus. So we're not, you know, any.

[Adam Pally]

Is there any hope that a private entity could come in and.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, it feels like Big Pharma would want to protect. You guys would want to protect that and be like, we can keep. Or they want to just bring their.

[Adam Pally]

Research or are the insurance companies so over, like they're done insuring people? It's like, well, let's just get rid of all of that.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

You know, it's. This is such a good point. When we think about what private industry funds, right? Pharma, biotech, they care about return on investment. They're making drugs because they're making money. The government. And this was the vision behind the NIH, this is the vision behind the NSF, which was actually right after World War II. The government thought we need to do research more broadly. Not just on certain diseases or certain factors, but just more broadly. And this curiosity driven research is actually what underlies 99% of drugs on the market today. It's not. These are not discoveries made by pharma. These are discoveries made by the American government funding American scientists to do curiosity driven research.

[Adam Pally]

And where in. And I know it's not in your place to like pick out the villain, but where, where do you think exactly it went wrong between patriotism and science? Is it all religion based? Is it all, you know, like, because I remember this debate around stem cell and it's always been around abortion and it's. You know what I mean? But now, now we've gone out into a place where it is literally about breathing the air.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

So where did, where did it go wrong?

[John Gabris]

Yeah. Is it anti intellectualism run rampant? Is it anti. We don't want to hear the bad news.

[Adam Pally]

Like what is it?

[John Gabris]

Is it like, like why, why is science so on the chopping block in America?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah, I think it's d. All of the above. Right. And, and, and it's not just one thing. I think the pandemic was a huge catalyst for this anti science sentiment. I think people, and rightfully so, were really frustrated with the distancing and the masking measures, the economic downturn of the pandemic and, and also how communication was handled and, and by scientists. And this idea that we were still learning in this new pathogen or this new virus that had emerged about it and there was no concrete answers, right? So all of these things sort of collided in this catastrophe where now folks don't trust science and we have to work hard as scientists to rebuild that trust. And I see that, that, but it.

[John Gabris]

Feels weird that it feels, it feels very weird and intentional that corporations and rich people really benefit from the distrust of science where it's like, well what about hey guys, stop fracking global warming. And everyone's like, well, do we really trust scientists? It's like, hey everyone, scientists say we should work from home to help prevent the spread. It's like, well, I'm a real estate developer and I want people in the office. Like, it feels like it so specifically butts up against private industry, private equity, making money, which is always like at.

[Adam Pally]

The same time it does feel inherently American, especially over the last 20 years to, I mean, even on a micro level, like measles is back and you know what I mean, like people have decided that, you know, vaccinations cause autism and like, you know, and it's, it's, it's not fact based, right?

[John Gabris]

Well, there's this whole, there's the people who say do your own research, right? And then people who are professionally doing research, they're like, no, not, not like that. We mean, listen to podcasts. No, don't actually do experiments on mice and learn and bring that and a scientific controlled environment and explain, use this to explain. We don't mean that when we say do your own research. We mean watch this YouTube video from Graham Hancock and learn about the ancient alien civilization.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, but is that in your mind? Like did you ever, did you see it at work? Did you see a tipping point at work? Work Shruti.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah, I mean I completely agree with you in that people rely more on their lived experience, right? Like I felt this way or you know, celebrity X felt this way and they talked about it on their podcast, so that must be true. The, the, the problem with that, what we call n equals 1, right? It's a one test, test subject study is that that's not how populations respond to disease. That's not how we understand how drugs work. You, you know, something may work in one person, but make things kill everybody else. And that's not a drug you want to bring to market, so. Right.

[John Gabris]

Like it worked for Dax Shepard. It should work for everyone.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Exactly.

[John Gabris]

Dr. Shruti, question for you before we let you get out of here. Is there anything, anyone who's listening to this right now and feels frustration as well. Yeah. Or scared. Is there anything they can do to help, you know, steer the ship in America towards science or can they call their a representative and talk about the disbanding of the Niagara? You know, is there stuff like that we could do to help you?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Absolutely. I think that call your congressional representatives, call your senators and just emphasize how much funding for scientific research matters. This supports clinical trials, this supports next generation drug development. It supports disease monitoring, pandemic monitoring. These are really, really important, important services that the government is providing for people that no private company will. And you don't want a private company to. Because you don't want these services to be for profit. You want them to be public.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Adam Pally]

Will there be any public service left after four years?

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

I don't. I don't know. I don't know. Like that is such a depressing question.

[John Gabris]

I know I'm knocking on wood. Like that's going to stop the will.

[Adam Pally]

There'S be like buses and trains.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Yeah. Street lights.

[Adam Pally]

Like will there be street lights? Like will there be or is everything is just going to be Deadwood Crazy.

[John Gabris]

Even in Deadwood there was like guys who got to own their own property and stuff.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

But like Blackrock didn't take over apparently.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. Like will we be allowed to own our property?

[John Gabris]

That's terrifying.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. Thanks for checking back in. Sh.

[John Gabris]

Oh. Always eye opening and always heartening.

[Adam Pally]

But for real, I would like to offer my services. Trudy, if there was anything that you ever wanted to do for fundraising for science, specifically in your department for immunology, for those mice, I do not want to let them die in vain. If there was anything comedically that we could do, like a live show or a live cast, anything.

[John Gabris]

We have so few skills. But if we, if we can help you in any way, please don't hesitate to reach out. Yeah.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Thank you so much, guys. And also just for spreading the word, I think we need to talk about, you know, what science is as people. And you know, we're not elusive weirdos. We're just everyday people with the same problems that everybody else has.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

So scientists like their edibles and their omakaze.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Exactly. Oh my God, you better have gotten to Joji.

[Adam Pally]

I haven't gotten to Joji yet, but I haven't had the time.

[John Gabris]

We gotta go to Joji.

[Adam Pally]

We gotta go to Joji. I'm gonna go to Joji.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

It's like I'm Joe Studio.

[John Gabris]

I'm gonna go to Joe.

[Adam Pally]

I gotta go to Joe's. Yeah, gotta go to Joe's.

[John Gabris]

Joji. That's in my head too. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Street, for coming back. This was a real treat. Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

And we missed you.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Oh, well, anytime.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, well, we'll have you back. We'll. I can't wait to see where you end up. Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Next time we talk to you.

[John Gabris]

It looks like designing weapons for the.

[Adam Pally]

Next time we talk to you. Looks like the loud of us.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

You're like, make it to the mission. It's down by the old football field.

[John Gabris]

All right, guys, thanks again. Bye. Sh.

[Adam Pally]

Great to check in. I really like. I know that that was dark to hear how bad it's going, but I love sh. And it was so fun to see her. And she was on the zoom. I was like, oh, shooty.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, she does make me feel better.

[Adam Pally]

She's like, oh, my God, we're gonna all gonna die. But Shruti, how are you doing? Doing.

[John Gabris]

And yes, a bummer. But I do think our listeners, could you stand to hear that that's the kind of that's happening.

[Adam Pally]

Our listeners are grown up enough to understand that we're being gutted from the inside. And all of our.

[John Gabris]

It's. Yeah, we're selling the copper wire from inside every building.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Profit.

[Adam Pally]

And what's going to end up being is just a husk. And hopefully our. Our listeners don't die.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, Fingers crossed. Yeah. That had me upset. But luckily we made an off camera off pod deal with Shruti. We are going to move into cages in her lab. And we're the new mice. We're going to be her new mice.

[Adam Pally]

I just had to change my name to Oscar.

[John Gabris]

She wants me to call my Stuart Big.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. Apparently I'm now Oscar Wellington and I have to wear a top hat and a monocle.

[John Gabris]

Oh, she wants us to be jaunty mice. I had no idea.

[Adam Pally]

She gave me a harmonica.

[John Gabris]

She says I have to lose my eyesight to be one of three. I don't know. But hey, if. If you need me, Dr. Shruti, I'm on board.

[Adam Pally]

I walk through a maze for you.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, I got you. I love cheese. And she refuses to call me a guinea pig. I've been begging to be called them.

[Adam Pally]

Well, take the. Take the costume off.

[John Gabris]

Good luck. I'm going to Richard Gere's house right now.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Whoa.

[Adam Pally]

What a ball.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, pull out.

[Adam Pally]

You couldn't couldn't find him anyway. Trudy did not deserve that.

[John Gabris]

No, she deserve much deserves a much better outro.

[Adam Pally]

She's doing the Lord's work.

[John Gabris]

Also, our sign off right now feels even harder to say after that conversation.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, cuz it seems like it's not going to happen.

[John Gabris]

But stay alive and try my best.

[Adam Pally]

Stay alive brother.

[John Gabris]

You have been listening to Staying Alive with John Gabris and Adam Pally a Smartless Media Production in association association with.

[Adam Pally]

Sirius XM Produced by Devin Tory Bryant and Anne Harris Engineered and edited by Devin Tory Bryant who also wrote the music.

[John Gabris]

Associate producer and video producer is Matty McCann social media producer Tommy Galgano assistant engineer Kyle McGraw.

[Adam Pally]

Special thanks to Jared O' Connell at Sirius XM.

[John Gabris]

Executive producers are John Gabris. Ooh me. Adam Pally. Ooh you Will Arnett, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, Richard Corson and Bernie Kaminski. Do us a favor, just rate and review the podcast. It actually helps.

[Adam Pally]

Just so everyone knows, we do not have a discord. Don't reach out to us, see us on the street, walk the other way or you'll catch hands.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

And also just like be nicer to yourselves. I feel like you guys are really hard on yourselves.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, we get that a lot. We kind of thread the needle of narcissism and self deprecation. That is like a very special breath.

[Adam Pally]

Good note. Really good note. Good note.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Smart. At Strayer University we help students like you go from will to why not?

[Adam Pally]

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[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

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[Adam Pally]

Edu to learn more.

[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Strayer University is certified to operate in.

[John Gabris]

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[Dr. Shruti Nayak]

Including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.