Steve Deace Show — "WHAT'S NEXT? The Future Without Charlie Kirk"

Guest: Lucas Miles (TPUSA Faith Head) | Date Recorded: December 2025 | Aired: March 19, 2026
Podcast Network: Blaze Podcast Network

Overview

This special episode marks a pivotal moment for the conservative and evangelical movements: the first America Fest to be held without its founder, Charlie Kirk, following his assassination in September 2025. Host Steve Deace sits down for an in-depth, candid conversation with Lucas Miles, head of TPUSA Faith, exploring both the personal and organizational aftermath, lessons from Charlie's legacy, the fractious state and future direction of the movement, and the urgent challenges facing the American church.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Loss of Charlie Kirk: Grief, Shock, and Transition

• Personal and Organizational Grief
  • Lucas describes lingering pain, likening the emotional state to "turning on the hot and the cold water full blast at the same time. The best of times, worst of times." (05:24)
  • The grief is coupled with the exhilaration of revival: "Churches doubling and tripling in size... Gen Z showing up to church." (05:24)
• Kirk's Assassination—Immediate Aftermath
  • Lucas recalls the moment he learned of Charlie being shot: “I see my phone light up and it's my assistant. And my heart just sank. I knew immediately… I just hear the words 'Charlie's been shot, it's bad. Figure out how to get home.'” (09:11)
  • The organization doubled its church partners overnight (from 4,000 to 8,000), showing an unmistakable hunger for unity and spiritual leadership. (10:43)
  • Charlie's leadership style was to "find and develop gladiators"—his passing left a void, but also a trained team ready to pick up the mission. (12:25)
• Grief and Responsibility
  • Lucas admits there’s been little time to grieve: "No, not the way that I would like to. It’s been almost a continuous state of motion since then.” (09:04)
  • Erica Kirk's public forgiveness of the shooter was described by Lucas as “unimaginable... only by God's grace could someone say that.” (14:42)
  • The senior team’s close-knit, mission-first approach helped weather the tragedy together. (14:42)

2. Charlie Kirk’s Legacy: Witness, Character, and Public Impact

• Shifting Perceptions
  • Steve notes many only fully discovered the depth of Charlie’s faith and character after his murder, especially within the evangelical community (19:17)
  • “He used his political credibility for the... gospel. That he actually used his seat at the table as a pulpit.” — Steve Deace (19:55)
• Testimony of Integrity
  • Despite leading a major organization, “No hint of scandal, none. Not even a rumor... overseeing maybe the largest profligate nonprofit in the MAGA movement. Nothing.” — Steve Deace (21:23)
  • Lucas describes being impressed—and convicted—by the level of work and integrity at TPUSA Faith: “Young people in their 20s... outworking and outpacing the church in their mission to share the gospel... I felt such a conviction about pastors in America.” (25:03)
• Charlie’s Appetite for Growth
  • Anecdotes of Charlie’s intellectual curiosity: “He’d sit at a dinner table with a group of people and just ask questions and learn and think and go back and forth.” (22:29)
  • “He jumped right into these theological ideas and topics.” — Lucas Miles (24:23)

Memorable Moment:

“I don’t want to be in a world where Charlie Kirk isn’t part of it anymore.” — Lucas Miles (26:11)

3. Where Does the Movement Go Now Without Charlie?

• Guarding Against Mission Drift
  • Lucas insists, “TPUSA Faith is not without Charlie Kirk. His vision, his DNA, his blueprint, his roadmap is all over... and I hope that continues for decades to come.” (34:01)
  • The team is more tightly connected than ever, leaning into each other in Kirk’s absence. (34:50)
• On Debate & Dissent
  • Steve raises whether “we are post debate now... post argument?” Lucas rejects this: "We’re having sort of the conservative Council of Nicaea at this very moment in time." (56:24)
  • Charlie’s approach: open, rigorous debate with “bumper lanes” for doctrinal boundaries but wide space for discussion on secondary issues (37:15)
  • “Truth always rises to the top, and that was a value that Charlie had.” — Lucas (39:04)

4. Unity vs. Division: Challenges After Charlie’s Death

• External & Internal Attacks
  • Lucas was sobered, but not shocked, by those seeking to make Charlie’s death about themselves: “There will come major obstacles and attacks on that unity for the purpose of trying to disrupt that, to break apart the body of Christ.” (37:15)
• Dealing with Attacks
  • Despite public controversies, Lucas notes, “Our unity hasn’t changed within... in fact, we’ve doubled churches, widened the denominational reach.” (40:37)
• Organizational Focus
  • TPUSA Faith prioritizes primary doctrine (Apostles, Nicene Creeds), with robust but charitable debate on secondary disagreements (46:57–68:27)

5. Discipleship, Tradition, and Intellectual Humility

• Need for Tradition
  • Steve and Lucas emphasize that Protestantism lacks “small t” tradition, leading to shallow, ahistorical debates: “Christianity is a religion of nuance... If you don’t understand the broader context... [you’ll] be led to believe in a Christianity that is simple—not in the profound way, but a naive way.” — Steve (59:30)
• Pastoral Approach
  • Lucas: “My role... is to uphold primary doctrine and give room for conversation across secondary and tertiary issues... to make room for the Reformed and the Charismatic, for the Baptist and the Presbyterian.” (68:14)
• Guardrails of Orthodoxy
  • “There are certain things that are ‘without question’—Trinity, heaven and hell, depravity, virgin birth, return of Christ... If you don’t believe those, you’re not a Christian.” (63:19)
• On Debates (Israel, Catholic/Protestant)
  • Amfest featured debates on “Israel—dispensationalism vs. replacement theology... and Catholic vs. Protestant unity.” (53:36)

6. The Young Men’s Revolution and Its Dangers

• Crisis Among Young Men
  • Steve: “We are going to have a revolution among our young men…. Will it be Jacobins or Colonials?” (68:27)
  • Lucas: “The same issues that have created the transgender ideology and cult... have also been creating this, what I would call an ethnostate bro radicalism.” (71:05)
• Solution: Biblical Manhood and Discipleship
  • Young men’s crisis is both a symptom and a catalyst: “Liberty is different than freedom... and that purpose is that life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness... that should be glorifying to God.” (73:04)
  • “When Charlie was stolen... God raised up millions of Charlie Kirks. I am hopeful.” (74:44)

7. Greatest Threats to the American Church

• Distraction vs. the Real Enemy
  • “It’s like having a giant grizzly bear chasing after you... but you also walked into a beehive and you’re focused on the bees... about to be lights out by the bear.” — Lucas (76:17)
  • The beehive: endless distractions, petty controversies.
  • The bear: “The rise of Islam in America.... Paganism... an attempt to supplant the Christian worldview.”
  • "Liberty only works for a Christian populace.... We have to keep this nation rooted in biblical truth if we want the American experiment to continue." (78:00)

Notable Quotes & Time Stamps

• On Grief and Motion:
  “It’s been almost a continuous state of motion since then... but God’s faithful and he gives us the grace for today.” — Lucas Miles (09:04)

• On Charity and Unity:
  “We have cried together, we've laughed together, we have stood side by side and fought the battle together... There’s no amount of attack from the outside that can overcome bonds that are forged in that way.” — Lucas Miles (14:42)

• On Persevering Mission:
  “The mission is growing greater than the sum of its individual parts... Charlie trained all of us to be the kind of people that no matter what happens, you get back up and you go to work the next day and you keep going.” — Lucas Miles (12:25)

• On Kirk’s Witness:
  “Charlie used his political credibility for the... gospel.” — Steve Deace (19:55)

• On Discipleship and Tradition:
  “Christianity is a religion of nuance... If you don’t understand the broader context... you’ll be led to believe in a Christianity that is simple—not in the profound way, but a naive way.” — Steve Deace (59:30)

• On the Importance of Orthodoxy:
  “There are primary doctrines… if you don't believe Jesus is returning, then you're not a Christian. It’s a categorical assumption within Christianity that you hold to that position.” — Lucas Miles (63:19)

• On the Young Men’s Revolution:
  “When Charlie was stolen from this earth, I think God raised up millions of Charlie Kirks... I am hopeful.” — Lucas Miles (74:44)

• On Threats to the Church:
  “We have to keep this nation rooted in biblical truth if we want the American experiment to continue to flourish the way that I think we all truly desire.” — Lucas Miles (78:40)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |:----------------:|:-----------------------------------------------------------| | 04:50 - 09:04 | Lucas reflects on his grief, the events of Charlie’s death | | 10:43 - 12:25 | How organization doubled and pressed on after the shock | | 14:42 - 19:17 | Erica Kirk’s forgiveness, team unity and resilience | | 19:17 - 25:03 | Explaining Charlie’s legacy and behind-the-scenes integrity| | 34:01 - 39:04 | Discussion of debate in movement, protecting Kirk’s vision | | 40:37 - 43:10 | Addressing unity amid public controversies and attacks | | 46:57 - 59:30 | The challenge of theological debate & Protestant tradition | | 68:27 - 74:44 | The crisis and opportunity among young men post-Charlie | | 76:17 - 78:45 | Lucas outlines the greatest threat to American Church |

Tone & Language

• Open, honest, personal: Frequent vulnerability regarding grief, stress, and calling.
• Encouraging, purposeful: Despite pain, Lucas’ language is resolute: "I'm optimistic," "God is faithful," "We have a mission."
• Intellectually charitable: Emphasizes robust debate, but within clear boundaries of Christian orthodoxy.
• Pastoral and principled: Focus on service to the church, upholding doctrine, and modeling Christlike leadership.

Summary

This episode masterfully combines honest personal reflection with strategic conversation about the fate of an entire movement navigating tragedy, division, and opportunity. Listeners will find a deep exploration of what set Charlie Kirk apart, the challenges of leading in a divided age, the critical importance of tradition and orthodoxy in a post-Christian nation, and a sobering yet hopeful view of how the next generation—if properly discipled—can determine whether liberty and gospel influence will endure. The conversation is a reminder that in times of loss, the real test is not just who steps up, but whether we remain anchored to truth and mission—and whether we pass it on.