The Good-Looking Stranger

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stolen Voices of Dole Valley – Episode 5: The Good-Looking Stranger

Host: Carolyn Osorio
Date: September 9, 2025
Podcast by: Lemonada Media, Pie in the Sky Media, KSL Podcasts

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Overview

In this gripping episode, host Carolyn Osorio continues uncovering the chilling and largely forgotten case of Warren Leslie Forrest, a charismatic yet predatory figure suspected of abducting, assaulting, and killing young women in the Pacific Northwest in the 1970s. Through survivor testimonies, official documents, and interviews with detectives, the episode examines Forrest’s background, his crimes, failings in the justice system, and the unresolved murder of Karen Wiles, who was killed at Western State Hospital while Forrest was committed there. This episode shines light on how overlooked victims and survivors are fighting for justice as authorities revisit leads in long-cold cases.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Survivor Voices and System Failure (00:02 – 03:00)

• Norma Jean Countryman’s ordeal: Norma, abducted and assaulted at 15, gave authorities a detailed description of her attacker and his van but was dismissed and not believed.
• Survivor Guilt and Blame:

  “I blamed myself because I couldn't make him believe me. And now I see it wasn't up to me to make him believe me. It was up to him to investigate.” – Norma (00:35)

• Pattern Ignored: Another young woman was subsequently kidnapped and left for dead, highlighting missed opportunities by authorities that enabled the predator to continue.

2. Warren Forrest’s Background & Psychological Profile (03:37 – 06:45)

• Warren Forrest grew up in Vancouver, Washington, with a stern father and controlling mother—a household described by his first wife Sharon as “Leave it to Beaver” on the surface, but actually tightly controlled.
• Dual Nature:

  “He’s been described as charismatic and easy to talk to. In later interviews... Forrrest described himself as a loner.” – Carolyn Osorio (03:58)

• Forrest claimed to be a slow learner, but school records show he was academically and athletically successful, even earning a track scholarship.
• Enlistment After Accident: After a car accident causing harm to a pregnant woman, Forrest’s family attorney advised him to leave town, leading to his enlistment in the military.

3. Sharon Forrest’s Testimony: Life with a Double Life (04:43 – 08:49)

• Strained Family Dynamics: Sharon, Forrest’s high school sweetheart and first wife, recounted the controlling nature of his mother and feeling powerless.
• Forrest as a Husband and Father: Sharon described Warren as attentive, gentle, and anti-violence—contradicting his monstrous crimes.
• Chilling Juxtaposition:

  “He cleaned out his van, stashed Susan's belongings in his garage, and then tossed a football with the next door neighbor... and ate a TV dinner on the couch with his wife and little girls.” – Carolyn (08:14)

4. Police Investigation and Missed Justice (08:49 – 12:49)

• Police arrested Forrest after discovering a victim’s belongings in his garage.
• Forensic Findings: They found darts, an air pistol, twine, and a parks master key in his van.
• Lineup Fiasco: Due to Norma lacking her prescription glasses (never replaced by authorities), she couldn’t confidently identify Forrest, leading to his not being charged in her case.
• Institutional Apathetics:

  “I was a 15-year-old girl. I didn't know that I could ask them to get me a new pair of glasses... there was no more need for me.” – Norma (12:33, 13:25)

5. Insanity Plea and the Justice System’s Lapse (14:55 – 23:09)

• Forrest pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity, citing a Vietnam “nervous breakdown” and trauma where he allegedly killed a child.
• Medical Opinions: Three defense-hired psychiatrists declared him criminally insane. The prosecution failed to counter with their own experts.

  “No state experts at all. An uncontested insanity acquittal.” – Former Prosecutor Denny Hunter (18:02)

• He was found not guilty by reason of insanity (23 Jan 1975) and committed to Western State Hospital—eligible for release upon doctor approval.

6. Western State Hospital: Lax Security & New Dangers (27:58 – 31:55)

• Western’s loose protocols allowed Forrest significant freedoms: personal vehicle, work unsupervised around the grounds.
• Sharon stayed in contact, visiting with their children, until she discovered Forrest’s affair with a hospital employee.
• Conditions at Western: Staff and patients indistinguishable; lackadaisical security created risk.

  “It was hard to tell the staff from the patients.” – Denny Hunter (27:58)

• Supervision failure: Even after the judge warned Forrest was a substantial danger to society, he enjoyed unfettered privileges.

7. Murder of Karen Wiles – A New Suspected Victim (32:01 – 46:29)

• Karen Wiles, a fellow patient at Western, was found murdered near Tacoma's tidal flats, showing signs of ligature strangulation and sexual assault—MO consistent with Forrest.
• Evidence Mishandled or Lost: Crucial biological evidence (swabs, hose) were lost; DNA remains inconclusive.
• Police Blocked:

  “Investigators were extremely suspicious... stymied by the staff at Western at every turn.” – Chief W.W. Parrott case summary (36:32–39:01)

• Victim Dehumanized: Wiles, a marginalized woman without family advocates, became an afterthought, her unsolved case gathering dust.

8. DNA Hopes and Investigative Frustrations (39:35 – 51:28)

• Retired detective Lindsey Wade sought new DNA testing on Wiles’ clothing and twine—results were inconclusive.
• Forrest’s Access: Worked closely with Karen in hospital kitchen; despite restriction, could have left hospital.
• Thin Line Between Patient and Predator:

  “You were found not guilty by reason of insanity for attempted murder, murder, and rape... but you can bring your car.” – Lindsey Wade (47:25)

9. Institutional Corruption and Blocking (48:04 – 49:44)

• Hospital staff failed to cooperate, hampering the original investigation.

  “My thought is, when you have some sort of corruption... why are you not releasing that information?” – Det. Julie Deer (48:32)

10. Modern Investigation & Unsolved Questions (51:28 – 53:45)

• Recent attempts to re-interview Forrest about Karen’s murder have failed.
• While circumstantial evidence aligns, physical proof is lacking, leaving the case officially unsolved.

  “There are similarities that one can’t ignore... but we have to have evidence.” – Det. Julie Deer (53:04)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On missed justice: "We found the girl's possessions out in the garage... I don't remember anything after that." – Sharon (09:41)
• On the clean getaway and keeping trophies: "They keep a trophy because they can re-fantasize and relive the event by looking at her ID, her clothing, whatever it might be." – Ret. Det. Bob Songer (10:12)
• On the insanity plea’s failings: “It was a judicial acquittal because it was uncontested... very unusual that you wouldn't refer an insanity defense to Western State for a forensic examination.” – Denny Hunter (22:10)
• On systemic apathy: “In my mind the steps that it would have taken for the suspect to transport this woman and brought her up into a county park... would have shown to me a state of mind that obviously had the intent... I was astounded.” – Ret. Sgt. Slider (23:31)
• On institutional unaccountability: "It was hard to tell the staff from the patients." – Denny Hunter (27:58)
• On the Karen Wiles investigation: “You were found not guilty by reason of insanity... but you can bring your car.” – Lindsey Wade (47:25)
• On evidence loss: "Unfortunately, this hose has been lost somewhere." – Det. Julie Deer (42:36); "The swabs... they were lost somewhere. The ME’s office never submitted them into evidence." (42:56)

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Timeline of Critical Segments

• 00:02–03:00: Norma’s story recapped; survivor voices and early police failures
• 03:37–06:45: Warren Forrest’s background, high school, family, marriage
• 08:49–10:44: Forensic investigation, van search, and trophy-keeping
• 12:33–13:25: Norma’s inability to identify Forrest without glasses
• 14:55–23:09: Forrest’s insanity plea, psychiatric evaluations, judicial handling
• 27:58–31:55: Western State Hospital conditions; Forrest’s privileges and Sharon’s discovery of infidelity
• 32:01–34:39: Karen Wiles’ murder discovered, scene described, suspicion raised
• 39:35–46:29: DNA testing disappointments, discussion of missed opportunities and forensic frustrations
• 46:29–49:44: Discussion of Forrest’s access within Western, institutional corruption
• 51:28–53:45: Modern investigation updates, lack of forensic evidence tying Forrest to Karen’s murder

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Conclusion

This episode reveals how systemic failures, from careless evidence handling to a lack of prosecutorial rigor and institutional obfuscation, allowed a possibly prolific predator to evade justice for decades. Through deeply personal survivor accounts and dogged investigative journalism, “The Good-Looking Stranger” highlights both the horror of what was lost and the undying persistence of those seeking closure.

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Next Episode Preview

Another body is found near the site of Norma’s abduction—the past continues to haunt, as Warren Forrest’s potential release looms:

“He’s about to get out at Western State Mental Hospital. He said, it is now or never. You guys need to put this case together so we can prosecute it, or he’s going to walk.” – Ret. Detective (54:26)

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If you have information about these cases, contact the Clark County Sheriff's Office tip line: 564-397-2847.

Transcript

[A]

Lemonade. This series contains descriptions of sexual and physical violence throughout. Listener discretion is advised. Previously on Stolen Voices of Dole Valley, 15 year old Norma Jean Countryman was kidnapped and assaulted. She gave an incredible description of her assailant and his blue van. And yet she wasn't believed.

[B]

I blamed myself because I couldn't make him believe me. And now I see it wasn't up to me to make him believe me. It was up to him to investigate.

[A]

Because Norma's story was dismissed, another young woman was kidnapped and left for dead at a Clark county park. A few months later, I met with.

[C]

The Lacamas Lake victim. She, well, literally crawled out of her grave. It was just a miracle that she survived.

[A]

But this time the case would be investigated.

[C]

She was taken inside the park in the van and assaulted. So they looked at the gate and there was the padlock and it was still flat. It was not unlatched. It was not tampered with. And if what the witness told me was true, someone must have had a key to that gate.

[D]

There's a guy that drives a blue van and he has keys to that gate. His name was Warren Leslie Forrest.

[A]

I'm your host, Carolyn Osorio. You're listening to Stolen Voices of Dole Valley, Episode 5 the good looking Stranger. According to police reports and court documents, Warren Leslie Forrest was born on June 29, 1949 to parents Dolores and Harold in Vancouver, Washington. He was the youngest of three brothers. Growing up, his mother worked at a cannery and later in retail. During the day, his father worked at the Veterans Administration and at night he was employed at a cold storage plant. During his interview with a psychiatrist, Forrest described his father as stern. But just as for his mother, he said she was overbearing and controlling. I want to pause here for a moment to discuss what appears to me, based on my research, is Warren force dual nature? He's been described as charismatic and easy to talk to. However, in later interviews with a psychiatrist, Warren described himself as a loner. In one of these sessions, he told the psychiatrist that his mother teased him about a piece of wood she referred to as one of his good friends. It was a 4x4 post that he talked to when he was little. He also claimed he was a slow learner and had difficulty with spelling, reading and writing. But the truth that conflicts with Forrest's assessment of himself. Between 1963 and 67, he attended Fort Vancouver High School where he was a good student and a star athlete on the track and cross country teams. He was even voted captain of the track team by his peers. He graduated with honors in 1967 and was offered a track scholarship from Washington State University. Forrest told the psychiatrist he joined the army after high school because he didn't think he was smart enough to do well in college. However, according to the documents I've read, Warren joined the military because of a car accident while Forrest was in high school. He blamed bad brakes for blowing through a stop sign and slamming into another car. The driver was pregnant, and the injuries she suffered from the crash led to complications with her pregnancy. Shortly after Forrest graduated, the woman filed a lawsuit. His parents hired an attorney who advised that he enlist in the army, saying it would be in his best interest if he left town. The sooner the better, which he did in September of 1967.

[E]

And I'm speaking with Sharon and I really appreciate you meeting with us. And like I said earlier, it's been many years.

[A]

That's Detective Lindsay Arnold. She's speaking to Sharon Warren, Forrest's high school sweetheart, who later became his first wife and the mother of their two children.

[E]

Could you tell me your relationship with Warren's mother?

[F]

I guess it was. It was a strained relationship.

[A]

These clips come from a December 2017 interview. At the time, former detective Lindsey Arnold and retired prosecutor Denny Hunter were both working for the Clark County Sheriff's Office Cold case task force.

[F]

Warren and I met when we were sophomores in high school, so we were 14. And, you know, I was a part of that family and it. I came from a very dysfunctional family. So their family seemed like Leave it to Beaver, you know, I didn't know. But now looking back, she was very controlling. She ran the show. Now I think, I wonder how much did that play in Warren's perception of Women.

[A]

After two years in the military, which included a two and a half month deployment in Vietnam, Warren returned to Fort Bliss in Texas in 1969. He took a short leave, traveled to Vancouver and asked Sharon to marry him.

[F]

He got back, I met him. He said, I want to get married now because I'm going to Fort Bliss. And I said, but that's like three weeks from now. So we got married in the small chapel and we packed up the car and drove to Fort Bliss, Texas.

[A]

After they were married, Sharon was with Warren for the rest of his stateside deployments. He was honorably discharged in September of 1971 after their first child was born. The couple then moved back to Washington State, where they lived in the basement of his childhood home with their daughter, who was a month old at the time.

[F]

We went to live with them. And there was nothing I could do, right?

[A]

Forrest's mother wanted to dictate how to raise the child.

[F]

And I go, please talk to your mom. He goes, it won't do any good. I said, this is not working. We gotta get out of here.

[A]

What would be discovered much later was that Warren's parents lived roughly a mile from the farmhouse in Minnehaha where Jamie Grissom and her sister Star lived, and that Warren Forrest was back in town just two months before Jamie left for school on a snowy morning and was never seen again. By 1974, Warren and Sharon had a second child and had bought a house of their own. Sharon explained that during their marriage, Warren was often gone, but when she asked him where he was, he always had a good reason.

[F]

I said, where were you? He said, I hit a female dog. I gotta go bury it. I gotta get a shovel. And I went, oh, I mean, that's just the kind of guy that he was. He wouldn't even go hunting because he didn't want to kill animals. Sweet as gentlest man.

[A]

Sharon shared that Warren was in love, loving and attentive father.

[F]

He always changed diapers and took care of the kids. And he was a good father, a really good father, A good husband. Made meals. He cleaned the kitchen.

[A]

Sharon is talking about Warren Forrest, the same man who had left Susan for dead in a shallow grave at Lacamas Lake Park. The same man who afterwards drove home, cleaned out his van, stashed Susan's belongings in his garage, and then tossed a football with the next door neighbor. After which he went inside the house and ate a TV dinner on the couch with his wife and little girls who were 1 and 3 years old. Then he went to bed at 10pm but early the next morning, everything would change.

[F]

They searched the house the morning that they arrested him, and they woke the babies up and went through everything.

[A]

As Warren was handcuffed, he didn't say a word to his wife. He locked eyes with Sharon for a moment before he was escorted out of the house and into the squad car. Warren had been booked into jail. When investigators came back a short time later to perform a second search at the house.

[F]

Warren and his folks were there. My mom was there, my minister was there. They were there for, I don't know, 45 minutes, an hour or something. And this one guy comes in, he goes, well, desert, we're. We're done. He goes, we found the girl's possessions out in the garage.

[A]

Can you tell me about when he said that to you? What you Tell me about that. I guess what you're thinking.

[F]

Even I heard those words.

[D]

I.

[F]

We found the girl's possession. Yeah. It was one of those moments. And did. And, you know, I just. I don't remember anything after that.

[A]

Here's former Clark County Sheriff's Detective Bob Songer, who was with the team that served the arrest and search warrants. The morning of October 2nd. Do you remember having a feeling as to why he would keep these things? Was he just so confident that he was sure that she was dead and that he would deal with it later?

[D]

The experience I've had over the years, over 50 years in this business, is that these guys oftentimes keep a trophy because they can re. Fantasize and relive the event by looking at her id, her clothing, whatever it might be. So I think a lot of times it's for that purpose. But I think he felt he'd gotten away clean with it. He had nothing to worry about in his thinking. Nobody seen him do it. Over time, he got very confident in what he was doing.

[A]

Inside Forrest's blue van, they found feather darts and the Marksman repeater air pistol Susan said he'd used to fire darts into her chest. They also forensically vacuumed the van for evidence and collected pieces of twine and a Clark County Parks and Rec master key. A short time after Warren's arrest, Sharon visited her husband in jail. This was the first time they'd spoken after he was arrested.

[F]

I remember asking him. It was at the old jail, the courthouse, in Vanda's cage, where the inmates could go. This was like when he was first arrested. And I said, things, you do it. He looked at me and he goes, I don't know.

[A]

His response, I don't know. Sharon is curious and worth keeping in mind as you learn more about Warren Forest's defense. The day after Warren Forrest was arrested, a lineup took place for Susan and Norma to have the opportunity to identify their abductor. Susan positively identified him, and he would be charged with rape, assault, and robbery in the first degree. Now you might be thinking, at last Norma will finally get some justice because she could now identify Warren Forrest. If you'll recall, Norma's abductor had taken her heavy prescription glasses, and by the time of the lineup, three months after her assault, she still hadn't gotten a replacement pair. Okay, so my understanding of it, they said that you didn't have your glasses with you or something like that for the lineup. Walk me through why they didn't just get you a pair of glasses. I have no idea.

[B]

I was a 15 year old girl. I didn't know that I could ask them to get me a new pair of glasses. I just knew that I lost my glasses and my mother didn't have the money to replace them because I have quite an expensive prescription and my father was no help. He wasn't even paying child support.

[A]

So they were just like, I'll go to the lineup, but I don't have my glasses.

[B]

I'm not sure I can see well enough. Well, just do the best that you can. I even told mom normal, I'm not going to be able to see. She said the same thing, just, you're going to have to just do the best that you can.

[A]

They conducted a lineup and Norma pointed to Warren Forrest as the man she believed abducted her, but told investigators that without her glasses she couldn't be sure. Because Norma wasn't able to pick out Warren Forrest with 100% certainty. He wasn't charged for his crimes against her.

[B]

I couldn't identify him, but they had the other woman who did identify him and he was arrested and incarcerated from that. So there was no more need for me.

[G]

Well, I'm Denny Hunter. I'm a former prosecutor and a volunteer cold case and this is for Clark County.

[A]

Although Denny wasn't involved in the prosecution of Warren Forrest in Susan's case, he breaks down the chain of events after his arrest.

[G]

The Lacamas Lake victim was Oct. 1 of 74 at the time of her abduction. There was then pending an unrelated abduction assault of Norma Jean Countryman. Those two victims were invited to a lineup in October of 74 and the Lacamus victim identified Forrest. Norma was unable to do so. She told the the detectives that one of the things she lost in this abduction were her glasses and she wasn't sure she could identify anybody.

[A]

Why didn't they just get her another pair of glasses?

[G]

It was a very strange situation, but it was basically a pick and a no pick. But the similarities. Once we realized that a park employee, Forrest, was responsible for the Lacamus case, we went right back to Norma, who was assaulted and dumped on a park property under circumstances very similar. So why the detectives didn't take it any further than that, I don't know.

[A]

Warren Forrest wasn't charged for his crimes against Norma and he would plead not guilty for crimes against Susan by reason of insanity. Because of privacy laws, most of Warren Forest's medical records are sealed, but we do have some court documents related to his past. In March of 1974, four months before Norma's abduction. Warren Forrest allegedly suffered what would be described as some kind of nervous breakdown. After Forrest was discharged from the army, he signed up for the reserves on the weekends. According to a court document, the alleged nervous breakdown happened after drinking at the NCO club at the Vancouver barracks. After Warren's arrest, he told a psychiatrist that he left the NCO club and started walking to his in laws house who lived near the barracks. During this walk, he began ruminating about a painful war recollection where he allegedly killed a little girl with his M79 grenade launcher. Here's a report from Detective Doug Mass relating An interview Warren Forrest would later have with a psychiatrist further relates to.

[C]

Dr. Nichols that while in Vietnam he was once ordered to kill a civilian girl. He states as they were approaching an area, the driver of his vehicle spotted this girl and told him to, quote, grease her, which he automatically did. He relates to Dr. Nichols that this event was is something that has bothered him since.

[A]

So Warren Forrest told the psychiatrist that when he arrived at his in laws that evening after drinking at the nco, he had a nervous breakdown. The family later told investigators that when he arrived he looked wild and was combative. They called the police to help calm him down. He was taken to the VA hospital and admitted for a couple of days later he claimed to have no memory of that night. Retired prosecutor Denny Hunter. Part of his insanity defense was maybe that he had ptsd, Right. Do you recall what exactly his military records?

[G]

Well, he got an honorable discharge and he told friends and family about an event that he said occurred when he was in Vietnam where he was carrying a grenade launcher in a convoy and somebody told him to shoot. So he spun and he shot. And he claims he killed a small Vietnamese child. And the retelling of it by his friends and family said he was very emotional as he conveyed this information.

[A]

Warren Forrest was examined by three defense psychiatrists which the state paid for. All three determined that he was criminally insane at the time of his crimes against Susan. But what was strange is that the prosecutor didn't attempt to verify with their own expert if these evaluations of insanity had any basis in reality.

[G]

No state experts at all. An uncontested insanity acquittal.

[A]

I just want to pause for a moment to let that sink in. Warren Forrest was acquitted of by reason of insanity for all the charges against Susan. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Are you going through a stressful time or just a blah time? Or maybe it's something deeper and because of this maybe you're doing what many of us do when this happens in a moment of weakness, you spill your guts to a captive audience, your hairdresser, or even worse, a colleague. I get it. In a complicated, fast paced world, when someone stops to listen to you just talk, it feels so good. Like a dopamine hit. But it doesn't last. Because as caring as your friend may seem, they're not a licensed therapist with proper training on how to deal with anxiety to depression and other clinical issues. Which is why I recommend BetterHelp. With a click of a button, you're talking with your therapist online in a safe, secure environment. So as the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one for you with BetterHelp and our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com Stolen Voices that's better. H E L P.com StolenVoices Pumpkin Spice is on the menu. School shopping for my kids is in the rear view and fall is in the air. Which means I'm ready to slide into some stylish but effortlessly chic new fall clothes. And luckily, Quince has exactly what I'm looking for. Elevated essentials like 100% Mongolian cashmere from $50 and perfectly tailored denim, all at prices that really feel too good to be true. But they are. So how do they do it? Quince partners directly with ethical top tier factories, which means they cut out the middlemen and deliver luxury quality pieces at half the price of expensive brands. And just to give you an indication of how much I am truly loving my new cashmere sweater from Quince. It's literally still in the 80s in Seattle, but I had an important meeting and it was hanging in my closet and it was just calling my name. And the sweater was so warm and cozy looking, but also the V neck is just super stylish and comfortable. I just had to wear it. So keep it classic and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quints. Go to quint.com stolenvoices for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Stolen Voices There's a saying sometimes the wheels of justice grind slowly. But not when it came to the prosecution of Warren Forest. Forrest was arrested on October 2, 1974. On January 23, 1975, a hearing was held and he was found not guilty of all charges against Susan by reason of insanity. The ruling didn't mean he would go free. It meant he would be committed to a mental hospital for treatment. And potentially, once he was deemed well and with a doctor's approval, he could go back to the court and petition to be released into the community. There was a jury, right?

[G]

No, it was a judicial acquittal because it was uncontested. The chief criminal deputy, the one who had briefed the Boss on that October 2, was in charge of it. He just said, okay, we'll submit your reports to the judge and see what he says. So it was a motion for acquittal. That was granted and he was committed, no jury.

[E]

How did that.

[G]

We don't know. It's never been explained to me. But very unusual that you wouldn't refer an insanity defense to Western State for a forensic examination.

[A]

So you weren't a part of that at all?

[G]

No, I learned about it later and I pulled the case and it was kind of awe inspiring how quickly it closed and went away. The method of disposing of that case prompted me to recommend that we never do that again. That we never ever let the defense drive the examinations without our input and without a forensic evaluation by someone not associated with the defense.

[A]

Retired Sergeant Slider, the first police officer to arrive at Lacamas Lake park, who immediately realized that the driver of the van most likely had a key. He was shocked when he learned about the not guilty by reason of insanity ruling. All these years later, he didn't realize the case never went to trial.

[C]

I was astounded because in my mind the steps that it would have taken for the suspect to transport this woman and brought her up into a county park and to used. Used the key would have shown to me a state of mind that obviously had the intent. And so when I heard that, I was astounded.

[A]

Retired detective Jim Pillsbury.

[C]

They had him slam dunk. And there was no reason that he.

[G]

Shouldn'T have been gone to trial and.

[C]

Being convicted and sent to prison. But that didn't happen.

[A]

But maybe there was another reason. He was trying to rush an insanity plea. Remember ten days after he was arrested, the skeletal remains of two young women would be found in the wilderness of Dole Valley. Retired detective Mike Davidson was there when the bodies were found in the dense forest.

[D]

The area is very remote, wooded, brighty.

[F]

Typical north county Washington, rather hilly and mountains.

[D]

The remains were located within a couple hundred feet apart. They'd obviously been there for a period of time.

[A]

Both victims had been placed behind or between logs. The remains were fully skeletonized and no clothing or identification was found at the site. But according to a police report, quote, some twine of unknown relevance was found in a search of the area. At the time, Warren Forest wouldn't be considered a suspect in these murders despite the victims being found in a forested area slightly upslope from a secluded side road near the Rock Creek Bridge, not far away from where Jamie Grissom's student ID and other belongings were found roughly three years before. @ the time, there wasn't an investigator connecting the dots saying, hey, didn't we find Jamie Grissom's ID by the Rock Creek Bridge and isn't she still missing? Or hey, what about the murder of Barbara Derry? Could Warren Forest be connected to that? And there were other missing girls in the county like Diane Gilchrist and Gloria Knudson, who disappeared from Vancouver within two days of each other. This isn't the last time you'll hear about these stolen voices. In January of 1975, Warren Forrest was committed to Western State Hospital for treatment. How long was that commitment? According to a court document, the term of Forrest's commitment could be for any period up to and including natural life. However, he would be eligible to petition the court for a conditional discharge if staff at Western signed off that he was no longer a danger to society. And remember that evidence collected in connection to Susan's case. You should know that after Warren's acquittal, all of that evidence was released or discarded except for photographs and the marksman repeater air pistol. Western is the largest psychiatric hospital in the state of Washington. Situated on more than 700 acres, the hospital was established in 1871 as an asylum for the insane. A sprawling brick building replete with spires, the institution could have been the inspiration for the setting of a 19th century Gothic novel. With an all too real history of horror and a disturbing record of violent assaults on both staff and patients. Allegations of sexual abuse, experimentation and torture. As recently as 2018, the hospital was stripped of their federal funding certification after years of failing health and safety inspections. According to investigators who actually visited western during the 1970s, they described a place where it appeared to them more like the inmates were running the asylum.

[G]

It was hard to tell the staff from the patients.

[A]

I mean, Western has a long history of stuff going on there that shouldn't go on there, right? Warren Forrest was found not guilty on 23rd January 1975. And before months end he was transferred to Western State Hospital. Upon arrival, he was assigned to the Omega group, which consisted of patients like Forrest who'd been committed for Criminal insanity, but also a variety of other patients charged with minor to serious offenses. Clinical psychologist Dr. Brent Trowbridge was the director of the omega program and described the group as follows. A therapist who generally had a master's degree in the field of social sciences, would lead the omega group. Omega was designed as a confrontational group therapy, which meant that the patients in the group were supposed to help each other with their treatment. Shortly after Warren was committed to western, his wife, Sharon, sold their home so she could be closer to him.

[F]

We used to go on Wednesdays to visit him, and then we used to go on weekends and spend, like, the whole day with him and, you know, pack the kids up. And I used to bake meals and take to him and get things that he wanted from the store and stuff. We had birthday parties, you know, for the kids there at the hospital and for him. I remember we celebrated one of our anniversaries there.

[A]

Sharon planned to wait for Warren to be released until a couple of years into his commitment in December of 1977, when she found out he was having an affair.

[F]

And I noticed that there was just a change in him. Something was different. One night I was there, and the phone rang, and it was for him, it was a payphone. And he was back whispering on the phone and just acted different. So when he got off the phone, I said, who is that? He goes, none of your business. I said, what's going on? Nothing. It's time for you to leave now. So me and the kids left. I was like, wow. Well, come to find out, he was seeing somebody at western state.

[A]

According to Sharon, she believed it was a hospital employee.

[F]

His therapist called up meeting for he lion and Warren. And he said, warren, is something going on that you need to tell Sharon? You seen someone? He goes, yeah. The therapist said to him, he goes, you're an asshole. And Warren goes, yep, I am. And so I stood up and I said, I'm done. I'm not coming back. I moved here to be close to you, to try to keep our family, and you're being able to see your kids, and this is how I get remained. And I walked out, and I didn't go back.

[A]

When police later interviewed a friend of forrest's, he confirmed that Warren had told him he was dating an employee at the hospital named Nancy. If Warren was having a sexual relationship with a hospital employee, that could be very problematic for western. In the 1970s, the specific legal framework wasn't in place as it is today. But even then, hospitals in Washington state typically prohibited any kind of romantic or sexual relationship between healthcare providers and patients. We don't know who forrest was having a relationship with at western, but we do know that for a patient, Let alone one in the sexual psychopath program, he was given unbelievable privileges, Even though the judge who signed off on forest's insanity plea. Did so with a warning that he believed if warren forrest wasn't locked up, he was a substantial, substantial danger to society because he was likely to reoffend. A warning that went unheeded.

[G]

He had a car in the lot that they allowed him to keep and work on that kind of stuff, you know.

[A]

We also know because of a transcript with forensic psychiatrist Dr. Sidney Pollack in 1978, Forrest described how he worked eight hours a day all over the hospital in the ceramic and sewing rooms, Kitchen, greenhouse, and he worked as a janitor Inside and around the hospital grounds. Dr. Pollock questioned Forrest about the loose security protocols. Which would have made it easy for him to escape. Warren replied, quote, yeah, I had the opportunity. That's what I was saying. I had the opportunity and the thoughts. At times, however, the amount of privilege and autonomy Warren was given. Would take on a whole new meaning to investigators. Unfortunately, much later, after fellow patient Karen wiles was found murdered. There's an industrial area near the port of tacoma Known as the tide flats. It was close to the city by day. Semi trucks trundled past with regularity. But at night, it was a desolate, dark place Known for attracting people Engaging in illicit activity. An ideal place to dump a body. On February 21, 1975, the body of a woman was found Lying in a bushy embankment. That bordered a drainage canal on the tide flats. The unidentified woman was nude from the waist down. Her shirt had been pulled above her waist. The remainder of her clothing was found scattered along the embankment. A piece of twine had been tied around her neck, and she had noticeable impressions on her wrists, an indication that she'd been bound when she was alive. Strangulation was the cause of death. It was believed that she'd been murdered somewhere else and dumped at the tide flats. An appeal was made to the public to help identify the young woman. After watching a news report, Nurses at western came through forward to identify the victim as their patient, Karen wiles. Karen was murdered Just a few weeks after warren was committed at the hospital. Denny hunter found the timing of Karen's murder suspicious.

[G]

It was a very short timeline. He was acquitted. They transported him to western, and just within a matter of two or three weeks, Karen miles is being killed. And it's six or seven miles north of Western in the Title Flats there in Tacoma. She's a voluntary admit at Western, so she comes and goes pretty much at will. But he's supposed to be in lockdown for the first couple weeks he's there, so I don't know if their paths crossed or what. But you have proximity, you have a man who's got the motive, sexual, sadistic, homicidal tendencies.

[A]

Western State records are protected from disclosure, and my public records request for police records related to the investigation of Karen's murder was denied. The reason given her case is part of an active investigation, which means there are a lot of things we don't know about what was going on at the hospital when Karen was killed. But what we do know is that three years after she died, police were still trying to investigate her homicide from a different source. I was able to get my hands on a police letter summarizing the investigation, and the chief of police made it clear that investigators were extremely suspicious about the goings on at Western. Chief W.W. parrott states that Karen Wiles voluntarily committed herself to Western State Hospital on February 4, 1975. But he says even though the Tacoma Police Department was officially investigating her murder, they were being stymied by the staff at Western at every turn. Here's a voice actor reading from Chief Parrott's case summary.

[H]

The majority of my investigation into this homicide was conducted in and about the grounds of Western State Hospital. And I don't feel I have to capitalize to you the difficulty that one is confronted with when attempting to conduct major investigations at this institution. It's been my feeling from the mere outset of my investigation in this homicide that the suspects responsible for the demise of Karen Wiles were somehow connected to the hospital in one capacity or another. However, I have yet to be successful in attaching suspicions to any one person.

[A]

Investigators created a timeline based on the contents of Karen's stomach. It was believed she'd been murdered approximately three days before she was found, specifically three hours later after her last meal at Western between 4 and 6pm which was the last time Karen was seen alive. She failed to report for the 8pm Bed check. Police reports I've seen don't specify if staff members looked for her. Investigators learned that Karen was assigned to kitchen duty along with patients from the Sexual Psychopath Program. It was suspended by fellow patients and staff that Karen had been sneaking out of the hospital with different men, that she came back in an intoxicated condition. Here's a voice actor once again summarizing Chief Parrott's thoughts on the investigation.

[H]

It is my feeling that the person responsible for this victim's death had to reside in or about the grounds at Western State Hospital. Because of her history of extorting people after having sex with them, it is conceivable that she had become sexually involved with perhaps an employee or person on work release program. And for fear of being penalized for sexual involvement with this female, they found it necessary to dispose of her because of the stomach contents being consistent with that evening meal. And the pathologists report that she had to have died with within three hours of consuming that particular ingredient and the 15 mile distance between the hospital and where the body was located. I feel that there had to be someone on the hospital grounds or nearby to have possession of a vehicle in order to conduct this type of crime.

[A]

Karen Weil's murder is still unsolved. When I found out that she'd been murdered when Warren Forrest was at the hospital and the similarities in her death and his mo, I wanted to learn more about her case. Particularly after I learned that there was potential evidence that had been collected which could be tested for suspect DNA. So I met with a Tacoma police detective Sergeant Julie Deer, and retired detective Lindsey Wade. Here's Julie.

[E]

I was actually not assigned the case. I was kind of given it to read over and kind of in preparation for today. I'm actually not actively working it, but if something were to come up, I'd be happy to look into it.

[A]

Sitting across the table from Julie, I was grateful she was speaking with me, but at the same time, it took every ounce of self control as I looked at that thick case file in front of her. Because what I wanted to do was leap over the table and start pouring through that book. Because I already knew no one was actively working on Karen's case, even though my public records request to view the files had been denied because her case was supposedly an active investigation. We're looking through this and, you know, I wonder if anybody's really thought about her in all these years.

[E]

Yeah, and she's getting the attention not for herself, but because she's a suspected.

[I]

Victim of a serial killer.

[A]

Yeah, that third voice you just heard belonged to former police detective Lindsey Wade. Before Lindsay retired, she submitted some evidence for DNA testing in Karen's murder case. We were there to find out the results of those tests, too. So imagine Julie, Lindsay and I all sitting in a conference room. And it's weird because Julie had Karen's thick case file in front of her. She'd agreed to the interview to review some aspects of the investigation. But the caveat was that I couldn't see or read any of the documents. I knew this was an opportunity to beat a drum for Karen Wiles, because as a marginalized person with mental health issues and without a family tirelessly pursuing investigators, it was obvious to me that the will to solve Karen's murder had died along with her years ago. But I didn't say that to Julie. I just smiled when she pulled out a paper, a crime scene schematic she couldn't show me and started reading details about the state of Karen's body after she'd been found at the Tide flats.

[E]

She had like abrasions around her neck and then her wrists that looked like they had been tied previously, but her wrists were no longer tied.

[A]

Now, in last week's episode, we shared some graphic details about Warren Forrest's assault on Susan. And this is where the significance of the rope and the hose that he'd used on Susan relates to Karen.

[E]

A three foot length of black plastic hose was located in proximity to her body.

[I]

Interesting because one of the victims had rubber tubing inserted.

[A]

Remember in the last episode, Susan had been penetrated with a hose which had been seized as evidence from Warren's van. It would be described as approximately 2 inches in diameter and a couple of feet long. Very similar to the hose found next to Karen's body.

[E]

3 foot length of black plastic hose found in proximity to the body that was taken as evidence. Unfortunately, this hose has been lost somewhere.

[A]

Not only was the hose lost, but also a biological sample, potentially from the suspect too.

[E]

Well, as I was going through this, I noticed that when they did the autopsy, they did swabs. Part of what they learned was the victim had sexual intercourse shortly before dying. But the swabs that they took, they, they were lost somewhere. The medical examiner's office never submitted them into evidence. And so that's something that we don't have in a case like this particularly is vital to solving a case because shortly before she was killed, she did have intercourse with. With somebody, most likely her killer. And the killer's DNA would most likely have been there. That's something that could have probably helped solve the case. And now that's lost.

[A]

That was devastating news, to be sure. But this is where retired detective Lindsey Wade comes into play. Lindsay retired in 2018, but before she left, she submitted some of Karen Weil's clothing to the lab for DNA testing, along with the twine that had been found around her neck. Julie told us that those tests had come back as inconclusive. Which meant no suspect DNA profile had been identified. This news led Lindsay to wonder if she'd been specific enough in her request to test the rope.

[I]

It just says the twine was examined visually. Red brown stains were observed. That's probably decomp fluid. Right.

[A]

Lindsay's talking about decomposition fluid. Biological material from Karen, not the killer.

[I]

I hope they weren't trying to extract DNA from the red brown, which would have been probably her DNA as opposed to like the ends of the rope that the perpetrator would have used to grab and tighten the rope. Yeah, so that would be like one. One question I would have is where did they sample this twine and if it wasn't the ends, is that something that could be done and that's something.

[E]

I can certainly try and call and get verification on? Yeah, have them resubmit it if necessary or retry it.

[I]

Definitely.

[A]

Julie also made a commitment to reach out to the ME's office personally to see if they still had the slides which would have been used under a microscope to confirm that Karen had sexual intercourse before she died. Basically, the biological material on the swabs that had been smeared on the slides could belong to the killer. There were also a couple of other evidentiary items on a list that could be tested for potential suspect DNA.

[I]

If you see anything on that list, like the jacket. Cause I know that wasn't submitted previously. If, if you know, it seems like there's any value to maybe submit that or the cigarette packs that were out there at the scene.

[E]

I actually had a case where it was completely a loss. I had nothing but cigarette saved the day for me.

[I]

Yes.

[A]

During this meeting we also discussed wharnforce freedom to move about the grounds of the hospital. He worked in the kitchen and had a vehicle on the property. According to Julie, Karen worked in the kitchen at Western State and a witness had seen her speaking with a charismatic guy. Was it Warren Forrest?

[E]

Even in one of the follow up reports it talks about because Karen had worked in the kitchen for a while and she worked with some of the sexual psychopath offender ward. So they had some method of keeping track of these offenders is what it says. But they're not listed in the book. With Forrest being one of these people that was there. Sounds like he might have been maybe working in the kitchen. There's no mention of him in the original reports. And so one wonders if that's where he. He was and that's where she might have met him. Yeah, it talks about that. One of the staff had mentioned that there was One person that worked in the kitchen that was a smooth talker, always, like, talking to the girls. Doesn't say who he was.

[A]

Does it describe Huey, what he looked like?

[E]

White male in his 30s, and he had a vehicle.

[I]

Okay, let me get this straight. You were found not guilty by reason of insanity for attempted murder, murder, and rape. You get sent to Western State Hospital, but you can bring your car. And I believe he also got hired to, like, paint somebody's house, a staff member's house, while he was working there. So there. I mean, that tells me that there was absolutely no one knew what he was doing, that he probably just went. Came and went.

[E]

You can go as you please.

[A]

Yeah. Julie also agreed with Chief Parrot's assessment back in 1978 that Karen's murder investigation had hit a wall, in part because of an uncooperative staff.

[E]

But also the problem appears to be that some of the staff members are not on the up and up.

[A]

If you'll recall, Sharon Warren, force then wife, claimed he was having an affair with a staff member, something Warren's good friend confirmed when being interviewed by police. He'd said that Warren had told him his girlfriend at Western was named Nancy and that she was a staff member.

[E]

My thought is, when you have some sort of corruption, which it kind of appears that if you're not releasing information, then there's something going on, why are you not releasing that information? What are you trying to hide?

[A]

I explained to Julie that's what I was trying to find out. What was going on at Western State when Lauren Forrest was there? Who was he dating? Did he work with Karen in the kitchen? At this point, because of privacy laws, I didn't have access to his medical reports. But Julie did have Karen's murder investigation file, which had the names of the people that had been interviewed at Western State.

[E]

There's people in here that were interviewed and have names, and it's just a matter of just trying to find them and seeing if they're still around and would be willing to talk to.

[A]

And could we get those names?

[E]

I could contact them and look it up and see if they're still around and see if they would be willing to talk and pass that along.

[A]

That would be awesome. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, someone out there could have potential information about her unsolved murder.

[I]

There's a lot of bizarre coincidence.

[A]

I know, I know.

[I]

Between the car and the fact that two different scenes with a hose, that's just strange to me. And then the rope.

[A]

I know.

[I]

First of all, any kind of sexually motivated homicide. I mean, those are extremely rare. Right. And then sexually motivated homicides involving ligature strangulation are even more rare. Sexually motivated homicide with ligature strangulation and binding of the extremities, he's even more rare. So like when you like start ratcheting it down, I mean, that time frame too.

[B]

Yeah.

[I]

And I wouldn't expect this one to be exactly the same as the others for many reasons. But number one, he doesn't have access to like all his stuff. Now if he is at Western State at that time, which he was, okay, so he had a car or maybe he stops it a store and gets.

[A]

The things that he's comfortable with. And we know from the way that Norma described how he was with her where he seemed like a. You got her to get in the van. He knows how to schmooze. He was able to get whatever that person said, a smooth talking guy, like, we know that that's him. I mean, it could be him. Now we have an update. The interview with Julie took place in the fall of 2023. I recently went back to the Tacoma Police Department and conducted a follow up interview with Julie. So two years later she shared that so far the DNA tests haven't turned up anything. I also asked her about those potential witnesses at Western State who weren't fully interviewed after Karen's murder.

[E]

There was pushback from the hospital, which was suspicious, ludicrous, it wasn't appropriate. Obviously I wasn't there. I came. I can't speak for first person on that. It just seems like when you take a person's life versus records, those should have been released without the argument that was put up there. There was also witnesses, people that were there that were no longer able to speak with that potentially could have had something to add that are no longer around with the time that has passed. And that's unfortunate as well.

[A]

But even though at this point there appears to be no physical evidence connecting Warren Forrest to Karen's murder, Julie said his M.O. fits with the other unsolved missing and murder cases he's suspected of in Clark County. However, Julie did share an interesting development in the case.

[E]

I can add that since we've spoken, there have been detectives that went to the prison and have tried to speak with Warren and he refused to talk.

[A]

Now this new development is very interesting and something we're going to get into later in the series because Karen Weil's murder never made it onto Detective Mike Davidson's butcher paper role as a suspected victim of outside of Clark county. And this is the first time Tacoma detectives have even tried to interview him on her case.

[E]

There are similarities that one can't ignore, particularly with some of the circumstances surrounding her death and the proximity of his being in her life at that time. The way that she was found and the method that she was killed in and the items used to bind her seem to align with what he used. Now, nothing has come back matching at this time, so that's important. We have to have evidence to be able to say, yeah, he's the one that did it. But there are similarities which are jarring.

[A]

Next time on Stolen Voices of Dole Valley. Another body is discovered just feet away from where Norma was hogtied at Tukes Mountain. And she'd been there all along.

[F]

And years later, I'm watching the news and it said, another body found on Tubes Mountain. And all of a sudden I went, I hit a female dog and I'm gonna go bury it. And it was like, whack. Why would you say female dog? You say, I had a dog?

[A]

Meantime, the clock is ticking because Warren Forrest is about to be released.

[C]

He's about to get out at Western State Mental Hospital. He said, it is now or never. You guys need to put this case together so we can prosecute it or he's going to walk.

[A]

If you have information about the case, please call the Clark County Sheriff's Office tip line at 564-397-2847. For more on stolen Voices of Dole Valley, including pictures, or to contact the show, find us on Stolen social@stolen voicespod or visit our website stolenvoicespod.com and if you like the show, please give us a five star rating and a review. It really helps us get discovered. Of course. Tell your friends and be sure to follow us so you don't miss an episode. You can also support us by subscribing to Lemonada Premium, available right now in your podcast player, Lemonada Premium unlocks exclusive bonus episodes like my conversation with Stolen Voices of Dole Valley producer Brandon Morgan. Here we discuss the intersection between Western State Hospital, Karen's murder case and what it means that detectives went to speak to him for the first time specifically about Karen's murder. Stolen Voices of Dole Valley is recent, researched, written and hosted by me, Carolyn Osorio production, sound design and mixing by Trent Sell produced for Pie in the Sky Media by Brandon Morgan. My personal thanks to Ben Kiebrick for his thoughtful and inspired edits. A special thanks to Dave Colley, Amy Donaldson, Andrea Smarten, Ryan Meeks and Jenny Ament. Main musical score composed by Alison Layton Brown voice acting by Aaron Mason with Lemonada Media executive producers Jessica Cordova, Kramer and Stephanie Wittleswax and for KSL Podcasts, executive producer Cheryl Worsley. Stolen Voices of Dole Valley is a production of Pie in the Sky Media, KSL Podcast Podcasts and Lemonada Media.