The Liar

Summary

Stolen Voices of Dole Valley

Episode: The Liar | Date: December 9, 2025

Produced by Pie in the Sky Media and KSL Podcasts, distributed by Lemonada Media

Host: Carolyn Osorio

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Episode Overview

This episode, "The Liar," provides an unflinching look into the mind and confessions of Gary Ridgway, the Green River Killer—one of the most prolific serial killers in U.S. history. Through authentic interrogation tapes, survivor accounts, and detectives’ insights, the episode reveals Ridgway’s manipulative games, the suffering of his victims, and the battle waged by investigators to wring truth from a pathological liar. The core theme: the struggle to unmask a killer who hid in plain sight, minimize his evil, and erase the humanity of those he killed—contrasted with survivors and families determined to ensure these women are never forgotten.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Genesis of the Confession (01:01–04:37)

• Secrecy and the Plea Deal:
  Gary Ridgway was removed from jail and held for months in a secret location to prevent him being influenced by other inmates or plotting with attorneys. The goal: trade his life for truthful confessions, and give closure to families while avoiding a lengthy, costly trial.
  • Quote: "They plastered all the walls with butcher paper... and that's where he lived for almost six months. We had the SWAT team 24 hours a day..." – Retired Sheriff John Urquhart (02:43)
• Jurisdictional Concerns:
  The plea was restricted to King County. If Ridgway confessed to out-of-state murders, he risked the death penalty—something he was cunning enough to avoid discussing (11:20).

The Nature of Ridgway’s Lies (06:51–13:53)

• Manipulation and Memory:
  Ridgway pretended to have poor memory and a low IQ, but investigators quickly saw through these tactics. He recalled mundane details about his life but became evasive about murders.
  • Quote: "His memory problems were highly selective... things that meant something to him, he remembered." (08:22)
• Pathological Game-Playing:
  Detectives recount constant frustration as Ridgway gave convoluted, often contradictory answers.
  • Quote: “If I had a buck for every time you said maybe… I could retire…” — Detective (10:17)
  • Quote: "He was described to me as dumb as a stump, but cunning like an animal..." — Detective (12:57)

Survivor’s Perspective: Rebecca Gardegue (14:01–18:48)

• Survivor Testimony:
  Rebecca Gardegue, the sole woman to escape Ridgway, recognized—but was originally too afraid to act on—his motivations and the police's skepticism toward victims.
  • Quote: "I know that he got a lot of kicks out of getting away with it." – Rebecca (14:49)
  • Quote: "I thought I was gonna die. I don't know what made him let me go..." (15:30)
• Systemic Failures:
  Rebecca didn’t immediately go to police due to fear of being labeled and ignored, underscoring societal failures that enabled Ridgway’s spree (16:19).
  • Quote: "She didn't want to be labeled as a prostitute." (16:31)

Ridgway’s Rationalizations and Misogyny (19:07–32:09)

• Victim-Blaming:
  Ridgway claimed he killed "prostitutes" as a favor to police, a blatant lie and rationalization for targeting vulnerable women.
  • Quote: “I thought I was doing you guys a favor killing prostitutes here.” (18:59)
  • Quote: “Nobody would look for her... That'd be second after looking after an ordinary woman." (20:04)
• Origin Stories and Victim Profiles:
  He feigned rage was triggered by victims' actions, ascribing murder to their lack of enthusiasm or disinterest—again, blaming them for his violence.
  • Quote: “If she wasn’t talking dirty or enjoying it…She might have said hurry up and throw me into rage.” (26:33, 26:51)
• Choosing Victims:
  Ridgway selected those least likely to be missed or believed—runaways, sex workers, young women.
  • Quote: “He was cunning from the way that he could talk to these people… The older sex workers fought too hard, and the young ones didn’t." (12:57)

Confessions: The Details and Their Gaps (33:38–45:48)

• Murder Descriptions, Memory Lapses:
  Despite being pressed, Ridgway’s accounts of his first and subsequent murders were punctuated by conveniently poor memories. Detailed about method—not about victims’ identities or last moments.
  • Quote: “I drove her to the spot in the river...within 10 minutes after I killed her, I drove her to the spot in the river.” — On Wendy Cofield (34:13–34:48)
  • Quote: “It snapped. You heard it, heard snapped?” — On breaking victim’s arm (34:50)
• Necrophilia, Trophy-Taking, and “Games”:
  Ridgway admits to acts like placing rocks in victims' bodies—to symbolically “possess” them and taunt police. He took Polaroids, left jewelry at work for coworkers to find, all to relive his crimes and exert control.
  • Quote: “I taunted the police with the rocks in the vagina… That was power.” (55:07)
  • Quote: “He would surreptitiously leave [jewelry] in the women’s restroom at his work, hoping they would pick it up and wear it so he could relive what he’d done." (57:13)
• Routine and Double Life:
  Ridgway continued mundane daily activities before and after killings, hiding his crimes in plain sight.
  • Quote: “One case on the way to work, picks up a young girl, kills her…has sex with the body in the truck at lunch…has dinner with his wife, watches TV and goes to bed.” — Detective Reichert (60:12)

The Challenge for Detectives and Families (61:16–61:58)

• Detectives’ Frustrations:
  Even after hours and months of interviews, detectives doubted Ridgway’s truthfulness about the full extent of his crimes.
  • Quote: “You really haven’t given up...So that’s why we wonder...why should we believe you on the bodies that you say you didn’t do.” — Detective (61:16)
• Closure and Uncertainty:
  The plea bargain brought partial closure, allowing some families answers, but the full scope of Ridgway’s carnage—and the fates of many “lost girls”—remains obscured by his lies.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Ridgway’s Strategy:
  “He was described to me as dumb as a stump, but cunning like an animal…” — Detective (12:57)
• Rebecca Gardegue’s Resolution:
  “If this person were charged, Would you be willing to prosecute? Yes, I will. Because there could be another person that he does this to, and I know that he got a lot of kicks out of getting away with it.” — Rebecca (14:49)
• Detective’s Frustration:
  “If I had a buck for every time you said maybe since we’ve been doing this, I could retire...” — Detective (10:17)
• Ridgway on Power:
  “I taunted the police with the rocks in the vagina...That was power.” (55:07)
• Life in Parallel:
  “He was a killing machine...has sex with the dead body in the back of the truck, drives back to work, finishes out the shift…has dinner with his wife, watches TV and goes to bed.” — Reichert (60:12)

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Important Time Stamps

• Ridgway’s first removal and plea agreement background: 01:01–04:37
• Interrogation tapes reveal Ridgway’s selective memory, lies: 06:51–13:53
• Rebecca Gardegue’s surviving account: 14:01–18:48
• Ridgway’s rationalizations and detectives’ psychological probing: 19:07–32:09
• Confessions on early murders, details/failures: 33:38–45:48
• Polaroids, trophies, and workplace “games”: 45:55–58:05
• Ridgway’s daily double life described by Detective Reichert: 60:12
• Detective’s skepticism about Ridgway’s truthfulness, closure for families: 61:16–61:58

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Tone & Language

Throughout, the episode maintains the original, unsparing tone: haunted, relentless, frequently chilling. Survivors’ and detective voices are plainspoken, measured, weary but determined. Carolyn Osorio weaves fact with empathy, making clear the human cost while refusing Ridgway the final word or mythologizing his evil.

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Conclusion

"The Liar" exposes both the monstrousness and banality of Gary Ridgway—his cruelty disguised by ordinariness, his victims dehumanized by his lies, and the dogged pursuit of those who refused to let these women vanish into silence. This episode is a sobering chronicle of the cost of denial, the failures of the justice system, and the indomitable will of survivors and investigators determined to reclaim the “stolen voices” of Dole Valley.

Transcript

[Detective/Interviewer]

Dc 911. What is your emergency?

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Ten years ago, one of Washington DC's most notorious and violent crimes.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Darren Wint is charged with 20 counts, including those for the murder of Amy Savas, Phillip Savopoulos and Vera figueroa.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Now, in 22 hours, a second look, the fourth season of our award winning podcast, American Nightmares. I'm returning to revisit that unforgettable case experience, new interviews, unseen perspectives, and one of the Tsavopolis surviving daughters, Abigail. Speaking for the first time since the tragedy.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

You try and come up with.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Oh, it could be anything else.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Not the worst case scenario.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Search American Nightmares wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Lemonada.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

This series contains adult language and descriptions of graphic violence throughout. Listener discretion is advised.

June 13, 2003 was a long time coming. 7,638 days, or 20 years, 10 months and 29 days exactly since Wendy Cofield's body had been found hung up on a snag beneath the Peck Bridge by Those boys on July 15, 1982. June 13. Even though it was a historic day, few people knew that two detectives picked up Gary Ridgeway from the King County Jail where he'd been proclaiming his innocence since his arrest in November of 2001. Now, with that pain evidence, he was singing a different tune. He claimed he was ready to spill his guts, or at least that's what he'd agreed to in the proffer. They had shuffled him into the conference room with little fanfare that day. He wore a white jail issue jumpsuit and he was driven to this secret and secure location to sign an agreement. His life in exchange for the GRK's full confession.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Today is June 13, 2003. It's approximately 2 or 3 minutes to 4pm we are located in the Green River Homicide Investigation unit headquarters at 9010 East Marginal Way South. Mr. Ridgway, I'm going to be asking you some questions about an agreement we have come to reach.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Retired King County Sheriff John Urquhart, who was the public information officer at the time, explains the catalyst for this extreme secrecy.

[Detective/Investigator]

So they figured, well, we got to, you know, we can't keep going back to jail and talking to because the other, other inmates are going to figure out what's going on and tell them to shut up and don't talk to the cops. So that's when they decided to take him out of jail and put him down for six months in an office building, literal office building that King county owned, fairly new building, the bottom floor, which is like a daylight basement so it sunk down about eight feet. That floor was all empty big. And the floors above were occupied by regular businesses. So they went down there. They plastered all the walls with. With butcher paper and moved him down there, took the door off, threw a mattress in there, and that's where he lived for almost six months. We had the SWAT team 24 hours a day, at least two or three members of the SWAT team sitting outside the door like I am. Gary's in there the entire time with the door off and the light on so they could watch him. And then they had a bathroom, a communal bathroom down the way with a tile floor. So they set up a camp shower. So once a week he could shower, and there's a drain in the floor, and it's all t. That's how we showered. They'd march him across the other side of the office where they'd set up the interview room. And then various detectives, sometimes they'd do it at 4:00 in the morning, sometimes not at all. To kind of keep them off balance. They'd go in there and all these videos and everything came out of that room. And he had John Prothero and Tony Savage, and I think a third of them were his defense attorneys. And they'd rotate in and out, coming in there, too. And they first few days, you know, we were pretty tough on Gary, depending on what we decided to do, and various detectives to see who could develop a report. Sometimes they just practically jumped down his throat. And I'm told the prosecutors would push back really hard, knock it off. You can't talk like that to my client. But once they figured out who Gary Ridgeway really was and how many of these he'd really done, they pretty much backed off.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

That plea deal struck with Gary Ridgeway was intended to give families, if not justice, at least some resolution. And it would also save the county millions by not having to pay for a lengthy trial. And by default, that plea deal would also pretty much ensure that no one would ever get the death penalty in Washington State. If one of the most prolific serial killers wasn't sentenced to death, who would be? But the secrecy was also a way to hedge their bet. If Ridgeway didn't hold up to his end of the deal, that plea would go up in smoke.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Among the representations that are made in the proffer, for example, at page three, the first paragraph, A1, the defendant recalls killing 47 to 53 individuals in King County. Is that an accurate statement?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yes, it is.

[Detective/Interviewer]

At paragraph two, it says the defendant recalls that these killings began in July of 1982 and ended in May or June of 1985. Is that an accurate statement?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

That is.

[Detective/Interviewer]

At the very end in paragraph 18, it says, in exchange for a promise not to seek the death penalty against him, the defendant is willing to plead guilty to 47 counts of aggravated first degree murder, excluding the presently charged counts. Is that an accurate statement?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yes, it is. It depends how many they find.

[Detective/Investigator]

But is it?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yeah.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Is it accurate or not?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

It's pretty accurate.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

I can imagine. As detectives and the sheriff listened in another room, they were hopeful they would finally get to the truth of what happened. The emotional cost of getting to that truth was unimaginable.

From Pie in the Sky Media. Hi, I'm Carolyn Osorio and this is the Shadow Girls. An in depth investigation into the victims of the Green River Killer. You're listening to episode nine, the Liar.

The eye of the video camera is always focused on Gary Ridgeway's face. His wispy mustache that overhangs his mouth. Mousy brown hair thinning in the back. He wore a short sleeved V neck jumpsuit for these interviews. It had a chest pocket where he tucked his readers, his skin ghastly white, and he often folds his hands peacefully on the table. That action is extremely disturbing because you know what he has done with those hands. Everyone in the room does. And yet, even in the knowing, it is still hard to reconcile Ridgeway.

[Detective/Investigator]

Once when I was down there, I actually saw him. Mike was taking him from his. To the bath, to the bathroom, from his little office. Made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Just being that close to him, what did you think?

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Like, was he just.

[Detective/Investigator]

He was nothing. He was just this short, little, tiny little guy that. Just a pipsqueak, you know? And yet. And you look at him like, that's why they hear him. Back of my neck stood up. Because you look at him, look at him and you see, you know what this man, you know what this man has done and the number of people he has killed. Not from a distance, not with an assault rifle, but as up close and personal as you can get. Not even with a knife, but from mounting them from behind and then strangling them and then putting a sock around their neck when he figured out that was easier, and twisting it with a stick and choking them out like that and.

Just, you know, beyond the pale.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

The place of confession was beyond perfunctory. A conference room with zero bells and whistles. A table placed in the center of the room. The killer sits across from his interrogators or psychologists, doctors who were called in as backup to get the truth out of a pathological liar who was always playing games. He hid behind this presentation of himself for so long. The pleasant person applauding truck painter who loves swap meets dumpster diving. He was the reverse of Bundy, who tried to regale whoever would listen. With his high iq, Ridgway, conversely, leaned into his low IQ and third grade reading level. But these highly trained detectives weren't rubes. They could see that his memory problems were highly selective things that meant something to him. He remembered. He remembered even the slightest details. The vehicles he had purchased and junk he had picked up at garage sales over the years. But the victims didn't mean anything to him.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Agashevt was not mine.

I don't think it's not mine.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Maggie. Chef isn't yours. 45 minutes ago you said, yeah, it's possible.

[Detective/Investigator]

Possible.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

It's possible. But the idea is, as I get talking and talk myself into stupid things.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Mr. Ridgway, you're kind of an annoying person because you keep things straight. It's really annoying.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Because I end up being talked into instead of being firm. I stopped in this time. I didn't kill this. I didn't do this. Well, then you get me in. I have to think, oh, maybe. And that's where I'm guessing. I'm trying to give you something. But then now when you say maybe, then.

It blows the way I'm thinking and blows any confidence you have in me.

[Detective/Interviewer]

If I had a buck for every time you said maybe since we've been doing this, I could retire and walk out of here and I wouldn't have to come back. I wouldn't have to put up with this anymore. Maybe. Probably. I think if I had a buck for every one of those you've used in the last seven, eight, nine days, I wouldn't have to listen to this anymore.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

That's. That's why it's all tangled up. If it's. If it's uncertain, I'm going to start out with maybe, then I'm going to go. This. I'm. I'm guessing, guessing, guessing, guessing. Three guesses. Because I don't. I don't. I don't remember.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

If that clip was hard to follow, it was just the tip of the iceberg in a series of lies. Purposefully misleading, intentionally messing with the task force as he had done from the very beginning of the case. Investigators knew going in that he would minimize, that he would lie, which is why the public was Kept in the dark about the plea deal because that ink wasn't dry. The deal would hinge on the word of a serial killer who was a pathological liar and compulsive game player.

[Detective/Investigator]

We all knew he was lying, but it's one of those things where you can't. The plea agreement only applied to King county. And we think he committed some of his murders in Oregon. Certainly took some of the bodies down there. But as soon as he get out of the King county jurisdiction, he subjected the death penalty. So he wouldn't talk about any of that, obviously. So he was smart enough about that. Or his attorneys told him not to, but he played so many games. And after six months, the detectives were just tearing their hair out and they finally came to the conclusion and they found bodies and they found out how other people died. But a lot of stuff he couldn't really remember very well.

But they definitely found bodies. They found bones anyway, no question about it. And they got a lot of good information out of it. But a lot of the names he didn't remember. Didn't remember a lot of the faces and the pictures they show him. So it was worth it. They're all glad they did it. But after six months they were just beside themselves. And finally they said. Basically they said, fuck it, we can't stand this guy any longer.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Why was he playing games? What kind of games?

[Detective/Investigator]

Who knows? Just like you said, you know, I can't remember or. But nobody knows. He. I think he's a lot of it. He's just stupid, you know, you ever sit across somebody across the table for six months with somebody that's just dumb as a stump, you know, they drive you crazy. They absolutely will drive you crazy. And that's kind of what happened.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

I do completely agree with you. But then there's also. Maybe that's part of the. His what the plotting and the average guy and that. Like. I don't want to ascribe too much intelligence to him, but he did. Was able to get. Is that kind of a reptilian thing where he just didn't want to get.

[Detective/Investigator]

He was described to me as dumb as a stump, but cunning like an animal is cunning. He figured out that if he takes these bodies and he would. He would take them out, you know, and started out dumping them right in Seatac. They kept getting found. So we'd take them out, you know, in eastern King county, park along the road, dump them into a little ditch, drive down 100 yards, face the other way, walk back up, take the body, drag it out farther into the woods and leave it. That's why we had so much trouble finding the bodies oftentimes. So he was cunning from that standpoint. He was cunning from the way that he could talk to these people. But he figured out. And he was cunning from the standpoint of, like I said, the older sex workers fought too hard, and the young ones didn't. So it's just like, something that an animal would do. I'm not going to. That one's. That one's gonna fight me. I'm gonna go after this young one over here. That's exactly what an animal would do. Right. When they're after their prey.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

But, I mean, I think there was also this desire to keep, like, the PI Letter that he wrote that the FBI said, oh, that's not him.

[Detective/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

And it totally was. Right? So I feel like he also wanted to keep everybody. There was that fear thing. And she. Rebecca said, he gets off on this somehow and keeping, you know, avoiding getting caught. Rebecca Gardegue, the one victim to get away from him in November of 1982, called out the motivations of her attacker from the very beginning. Remember her interview in 1986? She told investigators she could tell he was getting off on getting away with his crimes.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

Do you have anything else, dad? Well, if there's anything that I can do to get my relief, I would like possibly to prosecute or press charges.

[Bonita (Co-worker)]

Would you.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

If this person were charged, Would you be willing to prosecute? Would you assist in the prosecution of this individual for the assault on you? Yes, I will. Because there could be another person that he does this to, and I know that he got a lot of kicks out of getting away with it.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Rebecca was absolutely correct. And as I've listened to hours and hours of these confession tapes, I always come back to the heartbreaking reality of her account. Because his other victims aren't alive to tell what happened to them.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

Rebecca, at any time, Were you afraid for your life during the time you were with this man? The whole time?

The minute we drove and walked up to the woods and during the strangulation, I was. I thought I was gonna die. I don't know what made him let me go, but if he didn't, I probably wouldn't be here right now.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

As I've mentioned many, many times in this series, Hindsight is truly a killer in this case. Here's a newscast that's haunting.

[Detective/Interviewer]

What's it gonna take to solve this crime? One lucky break. One individual out there that knows in their heart who's done this. And has been reluctant to come forward. This suspect, this individual, has had a remarkable string of luck, and sooner or later, it's gonna run out.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Rebecca could have been that one person back in 1982, but she had been too scared to come forward. She didn't want to be labeled as a prostitute.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Rebecca, yesterday, after detective Griffin and I returned you to the office, I showed you a series of photographs in what's commonly referred to as a photo montage. Do you recall that? Do you recall picking a photo in that photo montage?

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

Yes, I do.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Do you recall what number it was?

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

Number five.

[Detective/Interviewer]

That was number five. And what would you say about number five was, in other words? What I'm asking you are what do you.

[Detective/Investigator]

What do you.

[Detective/Interviewer]

What can you tell us about number five? Is he a familiar person, or is that the person we're talking about two.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

Years ago, and I still remember his face.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Is the picture you saw Yesterday, photo number five? Is that the man that assaulted you in 1982?

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

That is the man.

[Detective/Interviewer]

There's no doubt in your mind about that?

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

No doubt.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

And her description of what she felt he wanted to do with her body was absolute truth.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

Most people that I know get red or their face looks different. Well, his face looked white, clammy, cold. His arms. Everything was cold. His hands. And this was during the time that he was attempting to strangle you, and you were fighting back. So both of you were.

Fighting at that time. It seemed like his personality had clicked from the time that he said I had bit him to the time that he had picked me up, a totally different person. He kind of made me think that if he did kill me, since he wasn't interested in me sexually before, that he probably would have tried to have intercourse if I was dead now. What do you mean by you didn't believe that he was interested in you sexually? Well, he's the only guy that never touched me at all or even wanted to. Look, I'm not saying that that was included by the fact that when you were having oral sex with him, he didn't have an erection either. He didn't even have that. Right. So you thought that he was totally disinfecting, disinterested in you sexually. Right. And you thought that he would. He probably wanted to do something. I felt like I. I was his little revenge toy or something, you know, he was taking all his anger out on me.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

And I bring up Rebecca here again because she is the only one of his victims to have survived, and her account spotlights his lies, as we will see during this confession.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

But I thought I was doing you guys a favor killing. Killing prostitutes here. You guys can't control them. But I can.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

That was a lie. He preyed on vulnerable people. Whether it was a teen who needed a ride or prostituted people he knew wouldn't cause trouble because they didn't think they'd be believed. And they didn't want to be viewed as a bad girl.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

90% of the women that don't. That get beat up don't tell because they don't want to be known as a prostitute. They don't want their family to be known that their daughter's a prostitute.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

But he was wrong. Rebecca would tell.

[Detective/Interviewer]

I think your one big mistake is.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

What's that?

[Detective/Interviewer]

You let somebody live. That was your downfall.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

That's a mistake, dad.

[Detective/Interviewer]

That's a big mistake.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Is.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Then Detective McAllister finally found you. Back in 1984.

The one that led McAllister to your doorstep. To me. Was your Mr. State.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Another mistake. He believed nobody would care.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Why did you have the urge in the first place?

[Bonita (Co-worker)]

The.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

The hate. The.

Wanted to get even with them.

[Detective/Interviewer]

What?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Because she's a prostitute?

[Detective/Investigator]

Not.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Not worth anything. Nobody looked for her.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Nobody looked for her.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Nobody would look for. Nobody would. You wouldn't. An officer would not. That'd be second after.

Looking after.

An ordinary woman. They would look more harder looking for that than a prostitute.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

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When the interviews with Gary Ridgeway first began, he claimed that he didn't plan on killing anyone. Ridgway blamed his rage on something that occurred during his so called dates. He said her failure to feign orgasm with sufficient enthusiasm or hurrying him during sex that these actions would provoke an uncontrollable rage. Basically it was their fault.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Had any feeling for me of working me to get me hard, like massage my balls.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

So if she didn't do those things that upset you.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

That upset me, yes.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

And you would kill her?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Not then and there, but later on if I when I was going back, if she wasn't helping, if she wasn't talking dirty or enjoying it and would let me touch her breast in the middle of the time. Maybe.

She might have said hurry up and.

Throw me into rage.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

Okay, explain the rage. What did you do when you hit that point of rage?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I would grab her from with my right arm around her neck and choked her.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

For how long?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I.

Never had her stop watching. Check. Until she stopped moving.

[Detective/Interviewer]

What were you saying to her while you choked her?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I don't know what I said to her.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Just think of some of the things you might have said.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Generosity probably.

[Detective/Interviewer]

You.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Bitch.

I don't like hurrying. That's one of the things.

Whatever. Something she did.

I didn't say. You know.

[Detective/Investigator]

You.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Know what?

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

This rage was also blamed on women at his Work who he claimed used manipulation to get easier tasks and better shifts.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

That might have been a day I painted with another woman. And we got all the hard work and they got the easy jobs and they manipulate people to get the easy jobs and we, I, my other partner would have the hardwood to do.

[Detective/Interviewer]

That upset you?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

That upset me a lot. And I'm not blaming it on chemicals from the paint, but I always, always had problems with headaches and stuff, with chemicals. And at that time I was painting until later on. But.

[Detective/Interviewer]

So are you saying, Gary, that it was when you would kill someone, was it usually a reaction to something that had happened that day in your life?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

A combination of all of it. Just.

My ex wife.

Not having my son on the weekend. Maybe I had him the weekend before. And it was depressing. Taken back all the time.

And being. Every time I went to my house, I knew I screwed on. Buying the house, that was really depressing. Paying child support.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

But you were with a lot of women that were close to you. You've dated women your whole life. You've been involved with marriages. You've had a lot of girlfriends. We've talked to a lot of your girlfriends. Pwp. Parents without partners. And you know, Judith and Marcia and Claudia, Roxanne. Why didn't you kill them? Why didn't you kill Roxanne?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Because.

When we ever had sex, we always had sex with no clothes on.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

Right.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

And.

If.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

If you had so much pressure though, every day at work, if you're going to blame outside sources.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Then.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

It seems like you would have been violent in your home. You know, people that were close to you, but you weren't.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I was at all the penned up rage I had and had no way of getting it.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

Unless these girls didn't mean anything to you. They weren't going home with you.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

That's.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

You weren't paying for their children. You were taking care of Matthew. Matthew was important to you.

[Bonita (Co-worker)]

That's right.

[Rebecca Gardegue (Survivor)]

Mara Meehan wasn't. She was pretty. But you knew most of these girls. When you picked them up, you had something in mind that probably wasn't gonna turn out exactly the way you pictured it in your mind.

And you killed them. And some you buried, some you threw away.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

He would also blame his divorces, poor sleep, failure to stick up for himself, and child support payments. And that killing released these pressures. But again, these were lies that detectives and psychiatrists would catch him in. And as time wore on, he would admit that once he managed to get a young woman or girl to his house, that he would Murder her regardless of how she acted or how he felt. And the video camera was there capturing those moments when his mask would finally be lifted, when he couldn't help reliving his crimes as he was confessing the lens recording the evil malevolence as his lip would curl, talking about his unspeakable deeds, exposed jagged lower teeth, his veins plumped beneath sickening alabaster skin. And in those unguarded Dorian Gray moments, the truth.

[Detective/Interviewer]

What was it about having sex with a dead body that you preferred over just going out and getting another woman to kill?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

One thing. You'd have to pay for it. She was already. She was already dead.

[Detective/Interviewer]

But it. But you would have got the money back from the next woman.

Guy at times. You were a pretty cheap guy at times, you know.

So you weren't going to be paying for. If you went out and got another woman, killed her, you weren't going to be paying.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

And that's what I spent a lot of hours looking and looking, looking for other women to kill. A lot of. No gas and everything. Looking for more people to kill. And that was a plus on my part. Had to render all the way back up having sex.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Now, don't let me. I don't want to influence your thinking. So are you saying to me that what helped you get over the line from the desires and the urges to do it to making the final decision to act on it, was that when you were actually in the situation.

It was going to be more inconvenient and more expensive if you let her have the money and you drove her. Her back into town rather than just kill her.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yes, that's exactly. Because money is money to me.

[Detective/Interviewer]

I mean, yeah, money was important. Okay.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

And after over 20 years, investigators would finally get some version of the truth of what had happened to these young women and teens. Like the GRK's confession of how he murdered Wendy Cofield, who he had emphatically claimed was his first victim. Even that would be like pulling teeth.

[Detective/Interviewer]

We know a lot about Caulfield because she was the first one.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yes.

[Detective/Interviewer]

And some of the things that we know are that she had a trouble background. And the day she disappeared, at least the day that we think she disappeared, she had gone to Tacoma. She was living in a foster situation there. She leaves. I mean, she goes down, checks in, checks right back out, and that's the last we know of her.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Just picked her up late in the evening. Just know that she was young.

[Detective/Interviewer]

And how do you know the first one was Caulfield? I mean, have you seen the photographs.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

She was the one. She was the one that I killed. Within 10 minutes after I killed her, I drove her to the spot in the river.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Didn't keep her at all?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

No, didn't keep her at all. I knew I twisted or broke her. One of the hands. Right or left?

[Detective/Interviewer]

How did you do that?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Either twisted. I think it was a twisted or dream.

[Detective/Interviewer]

What?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

When I was taking her over to put her in the river, she had her. I think she had the sock around the pants, around her neck. I didn't bother to take them off. And I automatically still had some rage. I used my knee on it. On her?

[Detective/Investigator]

I don't remember.

[Detective/Interviewer]

How do you know?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

The arm.

[Detective/Interviewer]

How do you know you broke something?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

It snapped. You heard it heard Snapped?

[Detective/Interviewer]

Did it deform right away or something?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

No, I thought it was an elbow. I might have turned it and put my knee into it here. And I don't know where it broke. She was laying down, all weight to her. And I grabbed her by the feet and I walked her towards. I could see the bridge from there. It was night, and I could see the outline of the bridge. And I walked her 20ft down, kind of north.

[Detective/Interviewer]

You walked her?

[Detective/Investigator]

She was alive.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

You know, Drug her down, Dragged her down, dragged her down. Feet or hands. Put her automatically in the river. I don't know if I took any more clothes off, but when I put her in, there's no more clothes. I didn't think about pulling off the ligature. The pants was.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Well, was the pants the ligature? How did you strangle her?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I think I strangled it. And I put the pants on to make sure she was completely dead when I drove her over there. And I left them on there. Pulled her down. There was a fishing trail there, kind of north on the river, just down along the bank. Rolled her in and then got in the truck and went down a little ways, turned around, come back.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Did you step into the water yourself?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

No. On that one? No, I didn't.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Just rolled her off the.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

No, I pulled her down and got her next to the water and I pushed her in and I knew she was floating.

[Detective/Interviewer]

You saw her floating away?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yeah, I saw her floating away. Probably 10, 15ft at most. Maybe because I pushed her. But it was summer, and if I did get wet, it didn't bother me. It's summer, it's warm.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Investigators kept trying to get a bead on what his plans were after he had murdered Wendy.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Were you surprised at how quickly the body was found? Did that alter your thinking about the next one?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

No, that was my very first one. And that's. I knew she'd be found within three days because of the bridge right there and getting hung up someplace.

[Detective/Interviewer]

You gave some thought to her hanging up instead of ending up in Puget Sound, rafting down the river there and any other somebody.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

If she got past that, she got snagged there. But when I put she gets snagged there and wouldn't somebody end up finding her?

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

It was a bitter pill for investigators to swallow that the GRK's plan seemed so ad hoc random that he just decided one day to become a serial killer.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Fear factor of getting caught. Getting. Getting caught by a year. Getting caught by the pimp. And that's when I decided, I'm going to kill him. I'm not going to let him. Not going to let him go all at once. You decide all that within a month's period of time, probably between the two.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Never, never, never changed your. Never changed your style, never. Because you had it so perfect from the very first one. You never had to change anything.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Well, I don't like. I don't like blood. And if I have sex with her after, if I have to move them, there's blood all over the place. There's a knife I got to hide. I can't carry the knife all the time and get pulled over something. Check out my vehicle, there's a murder weapon. I'd have to change knives every time.

[Detective/Interviewer]

So you thought about all of that ahead of time?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

No, I never thought because that's what I'm thinking about now, looking in the past.

[Detective/Interviewer]

You must have thought about that ahead of time to form this, form the opinion that you didn't want to leave evidence. Choking doesn't leave the type of evidence. Gunshots or sharp edges.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yeah, and they got blood all over inside the truck.

[Detective/Interviewer]

That's correct, yeah. So you must have. I mean, you must have conceptualized or thought about that ahead of time.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yeah.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Read books, seen movies, watched tv, whatever.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I just don't like. I just don't like blood.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Just don't like blood.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

No.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

An even harder pill to swallow was that he barely remembered the details about Wendy Cofield's murder, which was supposedly his first victim. And he claimed to remember even less about Deborah Bonner.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

The next one is Bonner.

[Detective/Interviewer]

You want to just go in chronological order?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Chronicle actually give us something on this one. She's the dark haired, kind of tall woman.

I picked her up somewhere on Pacific highway south somewhere around the airport.

Picked her up at night, killed her at night, took her down to Green Green river by the meat factory there. The PT Meats or whatever it was called on the south side of the PT Meats. I walked her into. Or drug her into a. Down by the river, put her in the water and I pushed her down and she hung up underneath some branches. I don't know how long she was going to be there for.

[Detective/Interviewer]

You could actually see her get hung up the in.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yes, it did. I thought she was completely naked. Her head and her face were the first thing that got caught in the. So she's still facing head on her back.

[Detective/Interviewer]

She's stuck on these branches.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

She's stuck on her. I didn't see. She's stuck on the branches. I think it was on her face first in the water.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Now she's face first.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yeah, I think she's face first. Yeah. And she stepped under the branches. That is when I. She's too far for me to go down to move. And it was a lot of. It was all water there. I had to swim down there to get her loose or just leave her. And I just left her there.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Have you seen the crime scene photos of this case?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

No. No crime scene photos at all?

[Detective/Interviewer]

Never been shown any photos? No.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

And I. She got hung up there for a while and I just left her there and walked back the bank. Got back in the truck and left. It was at night and you couldn't see too much. But I knew she got hung up there for a while and she went and broke loose. But for a while she was there.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Did she have any clothing on?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I don't think she had any clothing on at all.

[Detective/Investigator]

I don't remember.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I zoned in there for a short length of time in.

Less than five minutes and then got up in the bank and drove back home. Drove around little ways and came back out and drove by the site when I was leaving and went on home.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Back the next day.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

But it was a place where I couldn't get to her to either have sex with her or to put rocks over whatever it was I was planning to do. After you found the two first bodies, I started to put rocks over the rest of them. Three black women.

[Detective/Interviewer]

But you never put rocks on Caulfield.

[Detective/Investigator]

No.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Never put rocks on her.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

I should have, but I didn't remember. The bodies of Marsha Chapman, Cynthia Hines and Opal Mills would be found three days later. And of course, Ridgeway would be sketchy about those details, too. Detectives would get him to explain the circumstances behind the murders of the river victims.

[Detective/Interviewer]

He didn't go into the river right.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Away they went in the river. I went back the next day and put them in the river just like I did with the last one. When it melts. They went on top of the bank or something. Went in. Get in the river. That one I didn't have time to. Because they're the fishermen down there. And that's when I drove away fast.

[Detective/Interviewer]

So you had sex with them before you put them in the river?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I had sex with just the two in that cluster. I didn't have Bonner. I didn't. I didn't have.

[Detective/Interviewer]

So he kept him aside for a day or so. And then.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yes.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Then you had sex with him and you put him in the room?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yes. 2. Only at the time. The next day. And I went back to the river.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

He detailed what he had done to Marsha Chapman as her three children were waiting for their mother to come home.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Came back the next day. Got back in the truck. Came back the next day. Had sex with her.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Left her on.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Left her on the bank down by the water. Had sex with her. Next day, next day. Put her in the water.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Sex one time.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Sex one time. I was on top of her. Put her in the water and then put a rock over. Or probably two rocks over. One over her stomach and one over her leg. That could have been the same night. It might not have been the next morning. Just quite sure she was. She was not. Rick and Mortis had insidia. So I killed her. I had sex with her that night when I put her in the river. And I know I put the rock on her. It must have been at night. I don't know. Do you know what?

[Detective/Interviewer]

Start up. Because you're getting. You're getting.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I'm getting mixed up too.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Yeah, you are. Let's kill her at night.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Killed her at night.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Took her to the river.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Took her to the river at night.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Left her on the river.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Left her on the riverbank. Do you know what shift probably were? Day shift. Yeah.

[Detective/Investigator]

What?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Day shift. She wasn't rigor mortis when I had sex with her.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Go back for the second time.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Second time. After I put her in the water. She didn't have rigor mortis. And I think it had been a night. You didn't know more about rigor mortis than I did. And then I put her in the river and put the rock over it. Still at night.

[Detective/Interviewer]

So you've gone back at night?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yeah. This all in one night. It had to be because I don't know how much. How long. If I work during the day, rigor.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Mortis doesn't stay, I'll tell you that. Okay.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Okay.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Maybe you can even help me out with that. How long does it take to stay down? Well, sets in, can be fixed in about 12 hours, but after about maybe possibly 15 to 18 hours, it starts to leave again, depending on conditions.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Because I didn't have to. I didn't have to. Her legs were.

I didn't have to pry them apart or anything. There was no rigor of mortar set in, so.

[Detective/Interviewer]

But the second time you're back there, what you recall is it being night again?

[Detective/Investigator]

No.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

The second time had to be during the day, three or four in the afternoon.

[Detective/Interviewer]

With this victim?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

With this victim, yes. Then I took off any clothes that she had on, put her in the river, put rocks on her, and then found a river rock there. And I don't know what order the river rock. Maybe it was right after I had sex with her, but I put it in her vagina.

[Detective/Investigator]

So.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Okay, let me get this. At what point did you insert the rock in her vagina?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Well, it was after. After sex and. Right. Beginning of putting her in the river.

[Detective/Interviewer]

So before you put her in the river.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Before I was putting.

[Detective/Interviewer]

In the river insert the rock?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yes.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Where'd you get that rock?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Right there in the river. There a lot of rocks right there in the river. I didn't bring any rocks. It would have all the sediment and stuff like that out of all the way the rock would have. All the sediment was in the water. It'd have all the moss and stuff on it. Then I.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Why did you do that? Why did you put the rock?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Maybe symbolic. The woman would not have sex with anybody else. I don't know. Give anybody from El tab and second, you know, not they would because she's dead. But just. Just something that I wanted to do. So I started on there. I was going to do it.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Is something you thought of before?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Just when I got there. Had sex. There's a. There's a rock. I'll put it in her vagina.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

They would have to ask him again and again about most of the river victims. He was constantly misdirecting and leaving out information. Like the fact that he'd been back to the river scene not just to have sex with their bodies, but also to take Polaroid pictures.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Gary, what were in the photos? Photos were. How many photos were there? There was three. Maybe it was only three. Gary, you know how many Exactly. I know exactly. I'm telling you exactly. There was only three. One over in the water in the first one. One in the bank and One after I put her in the river with the two together. And that was the only three pictures I took. What did the pictures depict? What did they show? What exactly? They showed the naked body one at a time. The very first one was the. I don't know what order the water one was first. Then I took the picture of the one on the bank naked. I was uphill from her, standing at her, a little bit away from her feet and took a picture down at her. Then put the camera down after I throw the naked part away in the water. And then I took the one on the bank into the water and got down. I was in shorts.

Summer rolled the. Rolled the rock over. Big heavy rock. It was pretty heavy on top of her. And then got out. Water was. Water was up past. My shorts are all wet, so stomach.

[Detective/Investigator]

Or.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

About chest high.

And it was. I don't know which one of them one was really, really heavy. And I couldn't lift it, so I.

Rolled it. Were any part of you in the photos?

[Detective/Interviewer]

No.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

No, I wasn't in the photos. I made sure that shadow. No, no shadow. This morning I had to get. I think it was morning. I don't know what. What shift I was on. I dropped them off at night and I came back the next day to put them in the river.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

We'll be right back with the Shadow Girls after a word from our sponsors.

And now we continue with the Shadow Girls.

Ridgway would admit that during his killing spree between 1982 and 84, he slept only a couple of hours a night and devoted the rest of his free time hunting for victims, killing them and disposing of their bodies. Investigators just weren't buying that he didn't have these photos. He claimed he had stashed them in a Red Lion Hotel parking lot, but had thrown them away long ago. Ridgeway spun a web of lies. He even lied about the significance of the river itself as the starting point for his murderous rampage.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Just weeks prior to the series that started at Green river, you had not gone down there at the monument near PD and J. And sat there and just contemplated life or death.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

No, Had a beer. And that was usually what I had to go pick up. Matthew. That was a real road. I'd go over the. The bridge there, Maker Bridge.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Oh, the Kinder Mo and go over.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

And pick up my son and come back. I don't have him.

[Detective/Investigator]

And.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

And that was just. Just water was the first place I put the body in.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Why lie about this? Remember all those times he expected his second wife, Marsha to have sex with him on the banks of the Green river, how he had brought his little boy there for bike rides. Finally, investigators would learn the reason why he stopped using the Green river to deposit his victims. It was because of his run in with that river picker, Bobby Ainsworth, who had seen him on the bank.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I don't know what day the leak.

[Detective/Interviewer]

All right, so then you.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

And then back the next day to screw her and to move her into the water. And that's what kept her in the truck on the way down there? No, it didn't kip her any place like I've done before. I've killed two people the same day.

[Detective/Interviewer]

I took Mills down there to the river.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I took her down in the night.

Intending to come back the next day to screw her and to move her into the water. And that's what.

[Detective/Interviewer]

And where's Hines then?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Hines is already in the river. Hines is in the river. Because when I went back the next day in my ball cap and I saw the guy down there, I did not have a time to put Miller into the river and to cover up with rocks.

I didn't have time. I was going down there to screw her and put her in the river.

I killed her. I killed her on nights. I killed all those victims on nights and then went back the next day.

The Bonner and Coalfill, I put in the water right away. The other other three I was going to have sex with and put them in the water.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Remember, Bobby had just been floating down the Green river on that hot summer day back In August of 1982, looking for collectibles on the river floor, when he saw a stranger who had called out to him, asking Bobby if he'd found anything. That stranger was actually Gary Ridgeway. And just a few moments later, Bobby would find the bodies of two women that stranger Gary Ridgeway had raped, murdered, and weighed down their corpses beneath the water with boulders. Gary Ridgeway would admit that this was a close call and something he considered as one of his greatest mistakes.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Came back on the fragrance. Is that what I heard you say?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yeah, I came down. Went down pretty far down by someplace where there was a turnaround maybe two miles down or something like that. And came back, came back.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Why? Why would you do that?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

And because I drove all the way down on that side, he couldn't see me. And I was more worried about going down the river. He wasn't worried about me.

[Detective/Investigator]

Okay.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

And I came back because I was fastest way back up to my house, and I didn't even I pulled over on the other side of the road when I drove by, so he wouldn't see me and I didn't see him either.

[Detective/Interviewer]

You didn't see him?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I didn't see him the second time.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Did you see anybody else? A couple kids on bicycles or.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

No.

No, I don't see anybody else.

[Detective/Investigator]

Okay.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Got up to the.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Was your factor a little bit high right about then?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yes, it was. I knew I.

Dude, there was.

[Detective/Interviewer]

I've always thought that's probably the closest we ever came to you. Right. Right about then. Because he did say he saw a pickup truck.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

What color, though? Did he say what color?

[Detective/Interviewer]

You know what? I don't remember.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

And more truth was revealed when a psychiatrist came in to get information.

[Detective/Interviewer]

By the time you started putting rocks on them at your point of view, was your point of view shifting to the not wanting to be found.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Not wanting to be found in more of my possession.

[Detective/Interviewer]

So you were then feeling more possessive about them and wanting to be able to visit them. And so did you go back and visit the women in the river?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Well, like for instance, I pull one in the river.

[Detective/Investigator]

Bonner.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I didn't go back because I knew I was going to kill another one in the next days.

[Detective/Interviewer]

You knew already you were going to kill one the next day?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yeah, and that was going to be where my rest of my women were going to be dumped off.

[Detective/Interviewer]

You already knew at that point you were going to go out the next day.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I was always going out the next day no matter what. But no, I was going to plan put another woman in that. In that same area.

[Detective/Interviewer]

So by that point, what you're saying to me was in a matter of a few months, you had gone from going over the line from thinking about killing to actually killing. And then you went from killing the first time and having a little bit and the second time and having a little bit of conflict inside of yourself about whether you wanted to get found or not to going over the next line of knowing that you were going to kill the very next day. Is that correct? What was your feeling? What were your feelings like at that time? At the time you went over the line to knowing that you were going to be killing the next day. What does it feel like to have those kind of feelings describe?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

They were feelings of possession for the bodies.

They're my women and I'm in control of their being found. And I was getting more twisted. Like with Cofield. I didn't go back and have sex with her with the three in the cluster there. I went back and had Sex with two of them. I didn't get a chance to have sex with the third one.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Who were the two you went back and had sex with?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Champion and.

Hines.

[Detective/Interviewer]

And they were in the river.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

They were in the river and I put rocks in their vaginas.

[Detective/Interviewer]

And why did you say. What did you mean when you said you were getting more twisted?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Well, having sex with a dead body.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

The psychologist was able to get the GRK to reveal that the rocks were the first in a long line of twisted games he was playing with the task force.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I taunted the police with the rocks in the vagina.

[Detective/Interviewer]

That was a kind of power too.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

That was. That was power I don't want to put in your mouth.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Why did you do that?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

It's something only police and I would know.

[Detective/Interviewer]

So you wanted the police to be aware that you and they had a little secret together?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Yes.

[Detective/Interviewer]

And why was that important to you?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I didn't. I don't really know why, but it.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Was more than that from the start. Gary Ridgeway was monitoring the news and got off on playing games, especially taunting Detective Reichert.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

Who are you concerned about throwing out? Stupid. Throwing off the police. I know the task force probably didn't, but it's a throw off the police. The people who Mr. Riker was looking for, he wasn't. He was starting to charge the. The first six. And I saw him on TV and thought he was going to be in charge of the whole thing, saying, you.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Saw him on tv? When the hell did you see him on tv?

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

See him on TV when they were walking around with, with the bodies in the bank and stuff like that. I thought I saw him on TV or in a newspaper.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Investigators would come to believe that the GRK never bragged or confessed his crimes to anyone. But they had a hard time accepting that he could suppress the need most serial killers have to keep trophies of his kills. Later they would come to find out that he relived his crimes by visiting his so called clusters and also planting the jewelry of his victims on unsuspecting co workers like Bonita.

[Bonita (Co-worker)]

He was always nice to me. He'd bring his jewelry me and then, you know, found out I gave it to one of the police guys. And then after I found out that it was jewelry from the dead.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

People talk to me about how he approached you with the jewelry. Was it on more than one occasion?

[Bonita (Co-worker)]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

And what would he say?

[Bonita (Co-worker)]

Oh, here, you know, I got some jewelry that I found Ben Lottie years ago. And because I wore jewelry back then and I said, oh, that's pretty.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

And did you take it?

[Bonita (Co-worker)]

Yeah, I took it.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

He would surreptitiously leave it in the women's restroom at his work, hoping they would pick it up and wear it so he could relive what he'd done. Fantasizing as he painted those trucks, Joke.

[Detective/Interviewer]

About anything that came up in the paper with Green river to any of these people.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I stayed 100% away from the. And then when he brought something up about the Green River, I just walked away and just listened. I knew I was a suspect. And later on one night, somebody did.

[Detective/Interviewer]

You have a little shitty grin on your face that you knew of You.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I know I had nodded that, but I stood back and listened. But also, when I threw in the jewelry, I heard people talking to it. And my favorite thing was maybe if somebody's walking around with a piece of that jewelry that they found in the.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Bathroom, you knew where it came from.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I knew where it came from.

[Detective/Interviewer]

And so you got kind of a little.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

I got a little chuckle when they. I found some jewelry up here in the bathroom. And.

Maybe somebody says, you know.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Does.

[Detective/Interviewer]

Anybody ever come to you and say, well, there's a little jewelry fairy working in this place that drops stuff? And we.

[Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer)]

No.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Bonita would say that most employees steered clear of Ridgeway, but she struck up a friendship with him that included Bible study in his truck.

[Bonita (Co-worker)]

I know we used to have Bible studies in his car. His truck, I mean. And then he said, no, we can't have it in my truck anymore. See, back then, back in 69, we were allowed to take our vehicles down there and paint them brown and beige. Two thing. And he put a canopy on it. And he said, we gotta have Bible studies in your car. And I went, okay. And then he put. Put curtains up in it. Well, rumor had it that he did go out and have sex with him.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

With who?

[Bonita (Co-worker)]

The dead bodies. And I think that's why he was going out to his camper. And I know one time he came to work, he was an hour late and his pants were all wet. And I said, gary, you're late. But he had to change his clothes because we had to wear those white paper mache. And I think what happened was he probably went out to where he had one buried, had sex with it because he had to walk in the water. And that's where I kind of. After that, I got a clue because when they come down to Kenworth and tore his locker apart and they tore his house apart. Came down. And then after that, I kind of like I said, Gary, did you do that? And he said, no, because there's a couple of times that when we had Bible study, he said, benita, I done something really bad. And I went, what'd you do? He said, well, I can't tell you. But he said, will God forgive you for anything? And I said, yeah, except for two sins, blasphemy of the Holy Ghost and suicide. Well, I've done something so bad, I don't think God will forgive me.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

But he never would tell me Bonita's instincts were right. Detective Dave Reichert was. Would later sum up a day in the life of the grk.

[Detective/Interviewer]

He was a killing machine. And so one case on the way to work, picks up a young girl, kills her first. He has sex with her, kills her, keeps her in the back of the pickup truck with a canopy on it, drives to work, works four hours. At lunch break, he goes out to his truck, drives to a dead end street, has sex with a dead body in the back of the truck, drives back to work, finishes out the shift, gets in the truck, drives, starts to drive home, hits a dead end street, has sex with the body again, buries her, and then drives to his home, has dinner with his wife, watches TV and goes to bed.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

Next time on the Shadow Girls. After 20 years, Detective Dave Reichert, now King County Sheriff Reichert had been biding his time watching the interviews from a separate room in that basement confessional. But after months of lies and deception, could Reichert get the truth out of the Green River Killer?

[Detective/Interviewer]

The problem I'm having with that is that even just you and me in this room talking, that you really haven't given up. You know, those, those 90s bodies are the one to two that you killed a year. There are those out there that are your. And that's a chance that you have to give those up, but you're just not giving those up. So that's why we. That's why we wonder. You're not talking about the bodies you said you've done. Why should we believe you on the bodies that when you say I didn't do them. See.

[Narrator/Host (Carolyn Osorio)]

The Shadow Girls is a Pie in the sky production in association with KSL Podcasts and Lemonada Media. Our executive producer is Brandon Morgan. Post production supervisor is Casey Wheland. Supervising sound editor is Victoria Chang. And edited by Joey Jordan. For Pie in the Sky Media, I'm Carolyn Osorio.