Stolen Voices of Dole Valley – Episode 3: The What Ifs

Podcast by Lemonada Media | Host: Carolyn Osorio | Airdate: August 26, 2025

Overview

This episode dives deeply into the harrowing abduction and survival story of Norma Jean Countryman in 1974 Dole Valley, Washington. Through Norma’s own words and the lens of host Carolyn Osorio, listeners witness not only the brutality of the crime, but also the devastating consequences of disbelieving survivors—consequences that led to further tragedy. The episode also exposes critical failures in the investigation and the ripple effects on both victims and community. It is a chilling, empathic, and ultimately infuriating chronicle of trauma, survival, and heartbreak, raising urgent questions about justice and empathy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Emotional Investment in Storytelling (02:09 – 05:24)

• Host Carolyn Osorio shares her personal approach: “In cases like these, I commit a cardinal sin in journalism. I get emotionally involved with the people I’m writing about. Especially when it comes to victims and survivors… whose stories have been buried not only within the darkness of time, but also undeservedly, in the shadows of shame.” (03:02)
• Carolyn sets the ground for why sharing Norma’s story is essential—not just to report, but to foster understanding and care for lost and surviving girls.

The Attack and Daring Escape (06:24 – 13:19)

• Norma's firsthand account of the abduction: hitchhiking was normal, but a “strange, charming” man in a blue van changed everything.
• Brutal details:
  • She was bound, gagged with her own bra, suspended between two trees, and physically assaulted.
  • Surviving the night, Norma describes how “I started to break threads... they finally broke and I couldn't get the rope off my ankles or my wrists. So I just stood up, started hopping the opposite way that he brought me in.” (10:57)
• Her ordeal: She navigated barbed wire with bound limbs, spent hours crawling and hiding in fear, and was finally found by a park employee at dawn—physically and emotionally shattered.

Disbelief and Mistreatment by Law Enforcement (14:58 – 22:24)

• Deputy James Pillsbury conducted what he called an “interrogation,” skeptical of Norma from the start.
• Norma recounts: “For a long time. I blamed myself because I couldn't make him believe me. And now I see it wasn't up to me to make him believe me. It was up to him to investigate, to take what I said at face value and leave his personal opinions aside and do his job. And if he had done his job, those three women would be alive and whole today.” (05:00)
• Pillsbury questioned specifics, doubted her composure (“her calm demeanor”), and even had Norma polygraphed, still convinced she was lying about key facts.

Shame, Family Trauma & the Cost of Being Disbelieved (22:46 – 25:42)

• Norma’s childhood abuse: Norma reveals deep-seated trauma from years of sexual abuse by her father, shaping both her vulnerabilities and why she didn’t initially tell the complete truth about willingly getting into the van.
• She explains the complicated psychology of survivors—how shame and desire to protect her mother influenced her actions and decisions.

Missed Investigative Opportunities and Systemic Failures (36:28 – 51:48)

• Police missed key leads:
  • There was collective failure by officers to follow up on tips about a blue van and a suspicious parks employee, even when direct tips were provided by community members like Willa Stewart and Frank Lottie.
  • The blue van was repeatedly seen at park facilities; employees had keys to otherwise locked gates.
• Second survivor (Willa) steps up: Willa saw the van, called police—twice—and was ignored. She recounts the terror and frustration, and shares haunting empathy for Norma: “I just want her to know that somebody believed her.” (51:16)
• Critical inside info overlooked: Only one parks employee drove a blue van and had access. Intentional or not, the killer was hiding in plain sight, shielded by bureaucratic neglect.

Emotional Fallout and Generational Impact (53:30 – 55:35)

• Carolyn returns the rope (used in Norma’s assault) to her for identification: “It just takes me back to that moment in the woods… it’s overwhelming. I just can’t.” (53:36 & 54:41)
• Norma, forever bound: “I am tied to everyone that is his victim… I feel like we’re sisters. It never goes away.” (55:21)
• The consequences of disbelief: “And if he had done his job, those three women would be alive and whole today.” (55:43)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Norma on her survival instinct:
  “Coyotes and wolves have been known to chew off their own limbs to escape a hunter’s steel trap. Instinctively, I knew that my only chance of survival was to chew through my bindings, which at the time felt impossible.” (09:23)

• Deputy Pillsbury, reflecting on his regrets:
  “The thing that kills me, like I said before, is had I had a couple more years of experience, life would have been a lot different, and maybe a couple ladies would be still alive. And you can’t live on what ifs.” (36:28)

• Norma, on being tied to the case:
  “I am tied to everyone that is his victim, that they know of, and that is possibly his victim. I feel like we’re sisters. It never goes away.” (55:21)

• Willa Stewart, witnessing the aftermath:
  “That somebody could take a 15-year-old child and terrorize her, tie her to a tree, abuse her… and then the people that she should have trusted didn’t believe her. How horrible.” (51:27)

• Michelle Bart, on trauma response:
  “Why do trauma victims all act differently? Why does anybody act differently? … Trauma is trauma… I’m glad [Norma]’s talking today, but look at how many years it has to revolve in order for her to be able to be heard.” (33:55, 34:43)

Timestamps of Important Segments

• 02:09 — Host discusses her connection/emotional investment in telling survivor stories
• 04:06 – 07:00 — Norma is rescued and gives her initial report to police
• 07:35 – 12:32 — Norma’s account of her abduction, assault, and escape
• 14:58 — Deputy Pillsbury interrogates Norma, expressing his doubts
• 21:51 — Polygraph results, Norma admits minor untruth to protect herself from shame
• 22:46 — Norma’s background: family trauma, sexual abuse, reasons for vulnerability
• 36:28 — Deputy Pillsbury’s regrets and missed leads
• 41:39 – 45:50 — Willa Stewart’s sightings of the blue van, failures of police follow-up
• 53:30 — Carolyn and Norma revisit the rope used in her attack
• 55:21 — Norma reflects on life-long consequences
• 55:43 — The impact of systemic disbelief: more women lost

Episode Structure

I. Introduction & Context (02:09–05:00)

• Recap of previous episodes' findings and introduction of Norma Jean Countryman's story.
• Carolyn pledges personal integrity and emotional openness to survivor narratives.

II. Norma’s Ordeal (06:24–13:19)

• The abduction is relayed through Norma’s own words; detailed, brave, and raw.
• The extraordinary escape; sheer will and creative survival.

III. Institutional Betrayal (14:58–22:24)

• Law enforcement skepticism, interrogation, and minimal follow-up despite evidence.
• The deep wounds inflicted when authority figures fail to believe survivors.

IV. Unhealed Wounds and Cycles of Trauma (22:46–25:42)

• Norma’s family history contextualizes her vulnerabilities and decisions, highlighting broader issues around abuse, shame, and secrecy.

V. Community Support—But No Justice (36:28–51:48)

• The tragedy of overlooked evidence, missed interviews, and leads unpursued.
• Community members like Willa tried to do right by Norma—calls went unanswered.

VI. Aftermath and Lingering Pain (53:30–55:50)

• The tangible reminders of trauma (the rope).
• Norma’s unbreakable bond—a sisterhood to all the Dole Valley victims.
• Final reflections: the cost of disbelief echoes through generations.

Conclusion

This episode is a vivid, unflinching examination of trauma, systemic failure, and the imperative to believe—and act for—survivors. Norma’s story, and those of the women who were lost, are not just remembered, but honored through truth-telling and community support.

The episode ends on a forward tease: “Next time on Stolen Voices of Dole Valley. Another young woman like Norma will survive a remarkably similar abduction, just barely.” (55:50)

If you have information about the case, please call the Clark County Sheriff's Office tip line at 564-397-2847.

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