Historical Records: Claudette Colvin

Summary

Story Pirates Podcast: Historical Records Episode on Claudette Colvin

Episode Title: Historical Records: Claudette Colvin
Release Date: December 2, 2024
Host: Nimini Ware
Executive Producer: Questlove
Special Guests: Roxane Gay and Stella Carolina

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Introduction and Setup

The episode begins with Lee Overtree introducing the new segment, Historical Records, a show dedicated to unveiling lesser-known historical figures through engaging storytelling and hip hop music. Lee highlights the focus of this episode on Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl who courageously refused to give up her seat on a Montgomery bus in 1955, nine months before the widely recognized action by Rosa Parks. Lee encourages listeners to subscribe and support the show, emphasizing its inspirational and educational value.

Lee Overtree [00:01]: "Historical Records showcases incredible people from history that you may not know about and turns their stories into a brand new hip hop track."

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Host’s Entertaining Journey into History

Nimini Ware, the charismatic host, introduces herself humorously from her "top secret underground bunker," accompanied by her team of raccoon sound engineers. The segment is filled with playful interactions, including an unexpected alarm incident that adds a comedic twist to the narrative.

During this sequence, Nimini engages in a lively dialogue about the technical mishap, showcasing the show's blend of humor and educational content.

Nimini Ware [02:44]: "To make history, you got to have struggle. To make history, you got to show poise. Cannot be quiet, Loud as a riot. To make history, you gotta make some noise."

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Diving into Claudette Colvin’s Story

The narrative shifts as Nimini and her team enter a history simulator to explore Claudette Colvin's pivotal role in the civil rights movement. Through this immersive experience, listeners are transported to various historical moments, illustrating the context of segregation and the challenges faced by Black Americans.

Claudette Colvin’s voiceover provides firsthand insight into the systemic racism of the era, explaining the Jim Crow laws that enforced segregation in public spaces, including buses.

Claudette Colvin [12:42]: "It's 1955, 10 years before the Voting rights march. A time when people were separated by the color of their skin."

Nimini highlights the stark reality of segregation, emphasizing how Black Americans were compelled to sit at the back of buses despite constituting 75% of the riders in Montgomery.

Nimini Ware [13:13]: "Black Americans were forced to sit in the back of buses."

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Claudette vs. Rosa: Unveiling the Hidden History

A significant portion of the episode addresses why Claudette Colvin did not receive the same historical recognition as Rosa Parks, despite her earlier stand. Claudette explains that her youth and personal circumstances led civil rights leaders to spotlight Rosa Parks as the face of the movement, ensuring a more impactful and relatable figure for national audiences.

Claudette Colvin [15:06]: "Bingo. Wow. It's all coming together. But Lee, why didn't Claudette Colvin get to be as famous as Rosa Parks?"

Claudette Colvin [15:13]: "Even though she was the first to do it, the movement knew that she was super young and had other things going on, like being a kid. So the movement chose to set up Rosa Parks to be nationally recognized for protesting on a bus."

This segment underscores the strategic decisions made by the civil rights movement to present a figure that could galvanize broader support and media attention.

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Integrating Hip Hop: The Song

True to the show's innovative format, a dynamic hip hop track narrates Claudette Colvin's story, infusing historical facts with catchy rhythms. The song captures key moments from Claudette's life, her brave act of defiance, and the subsequent legal battles that culminated in the Supreme Court ruling against bus segregation.

Nimini Ware [17:35]: "Nimini's on the mic. Claudette. That's my name. Ms. Alabama Montgomery, to be specific. Hope you don't mind these honorifics."

The lyrics poignantly highlight Claudette's resilience and the legal triumph that ended bus segregation, reaffirming her crucial role in the movement.

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Expert Insights: Interview with Roxane Gay and Stella Carolina

The episode features an enlightening interview with Roxane Gay, a prominent writer and activist, and Stella Carolina, a six-year-old inquisitive listener. Stella poses critical questions about the disparity in recognition between Claudette Colvin and Rosa Parks, prompting Roxane to elaborate on the societal factors that influenced historical narratives.

Roxane Gay [24:04]: "When Claudette Colvin first refused to give up her seat on that bus in Alabama, things were really different. And we still deal with racism and other forms of bigotry now."

Roxane discusses the evolution of civil rights since Claudette's time, acknowledging progress while emphasizing the ongoing struggle against systemic racism.

Roxane Gay [25:54]: "We have to continue to fight for civil rights until lawmakers can no longer decide which rights we're allowed to have."

Stella’s curiosity drives the conversation towards actionable steps for activism, with Roxane inspiring young listeners to engage with their communities and advocate for justice.

Roxane Gay [27:25]: "Anyone can be an activist. All you have to do is care about yourself and other people and the world that we live in."

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Key Insights and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, Historical Records effectively blends education with entertainment, using humor, music, and expert interviews to shed light on Claudette Colvin's indispensable yet underappreciated contributions to the civil rights movement. The host's engaging storytelling, combined with Roxane Gay's authoritative insights, offers a comprehensive understanding of the historical context and lasting impact of Claudette's actions.

Nimini Ware [27:37]: "I already do that, yes."

The episode concludes by encouraging listeners to reflect on history's lessons and inspires them to contribute to ongoing social justice efforts.

Nimini Ware [28:06]: "Remember to make history, you gotta make some noise. Bye."

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Conclusion

This episode of Story Pirates' Historical Records not only celebrates Claudette Colvin's bravery but also educates listeners on the intricate dynamics of historical recognition within social movements. By intertwining humor, music, and insightful discussions, the podcast offers both young audiences and adults a nuanced perspective on civil rights history, ensuring that Claudette Colvin's legacy is rightfully acknowledged and remembered.

Transcript

[Lee Overtree]

Hey, Story Pirates podcast listeners. Lee here. Now, some of you know that we debuted a brand new show this fall called Historical Records. It's for kids and families just like this one. It's hosted by Nimini from the Story Pirates and it's executive produced by Questlove. Historical Records showcases incredible people from history that you may not know about and turns their stories into a brand new hip hop track. If you like the Story Pirates, I am sure that you are going to love this show and it's inspiring too. Today we're presenting to you episode two of historical records about a 15 year old girl named Claudette Colvin who in 1955 refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did. And if you don't understand what any of that means, that's okay. Take a listen and you'll find out. It's really exciting stuff and grown ups. If you like the show, it would mean so much to us if you subscribe to the show, which is free and left a rating and review. Those things really help new people find the show. I truly hope that all of you enjoy this episode of Historical Records. Coming up after a few words for the grownups.

[Nimini Ware]

Hello listeners, it's me, Nimini. I'm here in my top secret underground bunker. As usual, I'm with my team of sound engineer raccoons. Tina, don't be rude. Say hello. Now follow me everyone. And just a heads up, I walk very quickly. Some say that the way I walk is nearly running. But we have no time to waste because today's historical figure is Claudette Colvin. Luckily, the conditions for historical research are perfect. It's a beautiful day inside my top secret underground bunker. It might even be a beautiful day outside my top secret underground bunker. To be honest, I wouldn't know. I haven't been outside in weeks. What?

[Tina]

Tina, that's crazy.

[Nimini Ware]

You want me to go outside right now? Why would I do that? Wow, Tina, when you're right, you're right. Going outside is critical for my mental health. We have a lot to do, but I should take a quick moment to look outside and feel the sun on my face. Okay, I'll just peek out this emergency exit and.

[Disembodied Robot Voice]

The alarm has been tripped.

[Nimini Ware]

Why did I do that? Historical Records, you are now listening to Historical Wrecker. To make history, you got to have struggle. To make history, you got to show poise. Cannot be quiet, Loud as a riot. To make history, you gotta make some noise. Listeners, welcome back to Historical Records where we conduct highly experimental experiments combining history and hip hop. Today's episode is about the trailblazing civil rights activist Claudette Colvin. Also, I just tripped the alarm.

[Disembodied Robot Voice]

The alarm has been tripped. Maybe an intruder.

[Tina]

No, no, no.

[Nimini Ware]

There's no intruder. It was me.

[Disembodied Robot Voice]

I cannot take your word for it.

[Nimini Ware]

Oh, come on. Disembodied robot voice.

[Disembodied Robot Voice]

Please reset my system in one minute or the authorities will be called.

[Claudette Colvin]

Oh no.

[Nimini Ware]

I hate bureaucracy. Also, one minute. That's not a lot of wiggle room. And I don't even know where to turn off the security system. Tina, what are we gonna do? Wait, we have a security center. I passed it. That must be where we have to turn this thing off. If I'm remembering correctly, it's directly below us, about 40 stories down. Come on, raccoons, we'll take the stairs. You're right. We won't get there fast enough. Brilliant idea, Tina. We'll jump down the garbage chute and it'll take us straight there. Raccoon, you go first. Me? Now to fold myself in half and fit into the garbage chute. I really hope I fall onto something. Ugh, soft. Oh, that's nice, Tina. How nice is this? Am I right? Okay, no time. We gotta turn this thing off.

[Disembodied Robot Voice]

You have 20 seconds to reset the system.

[Nimini Ware]

Ah. Alright, let's open up the breaker and see what we're working with. Oh no. That is a lot of plugs and wires.

[Disembodied Robot Voice]

Do not unplug the wrong wire.

[Nimini Ware]

Not good. Tina, any ideas? Help.

[Mama]

I got you, honey.

[Nimini Ware]

Mama, what are you doing here?

[Mama]

Well, sweetie, for one. I thought I helped you turn off the alarm. Trust me, you do not want to deal with all that paperwork.

[Nimini Ware]

You're right about that.

[Mama]

I just got to pull out the right plug.

[Roxane Gay]

Ha.

[Nimini Ware]

I did not see this coming. Mama, you sure you know which one to pull?

[Mama]

It's this one, I think.

[Disembodied Robot Voice]

Successful shutdown.

[Nimini Ware]

You did it.

[Mama]

Now. Give me a second. I gotta boot it back up. We don't want any intruders getting in here.

[Disembodied Robot Voice]

System reset. Intruders don't stand a chance.

[Nimini Ware]

Mom, how in the world did you know how to do that?

[Mama]

Honey, I set up the whole security system.

[Nimini Ware]

You did?

[Claudette Colvin]

Yes.

[Mama]

You had a lot on your plate at the time.

[Nimini Ware]

Okay, I want to hear way more about that, but right now I'm running a. And I have to track down one of my historians.

[Mama]

Of course.

[Nimini Ware]

I'll see you later. Okay, ma.

[Mama]

Bye, honey. I'm proud of you.

[Nimini Ware]

Listeners, keep up with me. We're walk running to the library. And while we're on the move, I need to level with you. The good news is that I have a truly sick beat lined up for today. The slightly less good news is that I really do not know much about today's historical figure. I mean, I know Claudette Colvin was a part of the civil rights movement, fighting for equal rights for black people in America, but obviously I need more than that. And here we are at the gigantic library. Gosh, I love it in here. So now we just need to find Lee so she can give us some historical help.

[Claudette Colvin]

Help.

[Nimini Ware]

That was a weird echo that sounded nothing like me. Anyway, like I was saying, because I don't have enough info right now, I guess you could say I'm stuck. I'm stuck. Okay? I can't be the only one hearing that bad echo that sounds nothing like my voice.

[Claudette Colvin]

Nimini, I'm not an echo. It's me, Lee. I'm trapped under a giant book.

[Nimini Ware]

Whoa. Look at the Gian book. I'm coming. One, two, three, left. Phew.

[Claudette Colvin]

Oh, that is much better.

[Nimini Ware]

Lee, I know you like to bury your head in a book, but that was a bit much.

[Claudette Colvin]

It was actually really informative. Until the emotional weight of history and the actual weight of that huge book became too much. Anyway, are you ready to immerse yourself in history?

[Nimini Ware]

As long as you don't mean trapping ourselves under that book, absolutely.

[Claudette Colvin]

Well, then, step into the history simulator.

[Nimini Ware]

Leigh, with respect, I wish the history simulator didn't look like a gooey alien pod.

[Claudette Colvin]

I'll consider that feedback for my next simulator.

[Nimini Ware]

Okay, where are we headed?

[Claudette Colvin]

To see a very brave young woman who refuses to give up her seat on the bus. Claudette Colvin.

[Nimini Ware]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. I thought that was Rosa Parks.

[Claudette Colvin]

Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat, but Claudette Colvin did it first.

[Nimini Ware]

Well, that's a twist. I had no idea.

[Claudette Colvin]

You know what? Before we go visit Claudette Colvin, let's bop around a bit, get the full context.

[Nimini Ware]

I like it.

[Claudette Colvin]

1964, here we come.

[Nimini Ware]

Lee, are we on a live TV set?

[Claudette Colvin]

You bet we are.

[Lee Overtree]

Cool.

[Nimini Ware]

Look at those four dudes in suits.

[Claudette Colvin]

Those four dudes are the Beatles, and this is their USA Debut on the Ed Sullivan. There was so much exciting stuff at this time.

[Nimini Ware]

You gotta warn me when we're taking off, Lee. Also, where are we now? What are all these buttons? Houston, we are go for launch. Lee, are we on a spaceship?

[Claudette Colvin]

Not just any spaceship. The first one to ever land on the moon.

[Nimini Ware]

Um, actually, Houston. Hold on a second. It seems a weird alien pod just.

[Lee Overtree]

Appeared on our spaceship.

[Claudette Colvin]

Uh, whoops. We gotta go. Nimini, we're taking off to March 25, 1964.

[Stella]

Five.

[Nimini Ware]

Lee. This crowd we're in is huge. There must be 25,000 people. And we appear to be marching toward that official looking building.

[Claudette Colvin]

Incredible. Guess, NIMINI, there are 25,000 people, and that building is the Alabama State Capitol in Montgomery.

[Roxane Gay]

Hmm.

[Nimini Ware]

Why do I feel like we're witnessing one of the biggest moments of activism in the civil rights movement?

[Claudette Colvin]

Because we are. You see, four days ago, about 3,000 people had gathered in Selma, Alabama, 54 miles away, and began the march to the Capitol.

[Nimini Ware]

That's a long march. And you're saying most of this crowd joined the march along the way?

[Claudette Colvin]

Yeah. For four days, people came out all along the march route dressed in their Sunday best to sit on their porches and wave at the marchers, cheering with support and admiration. And at each town, more marchers of all ages join the group, waving American flags and making front page headlines in the newspapers.

[Nimini Ware]

And once this huge crowd gets to the Capitol, what do they do?

[Claudette Colvin]

They're going to deliver a petition signed by black voters demanding an end to discriminatory voting registration practices.

[Nimini Ware]

Wait, so you mean to tell me that even though black people have the right to vote in 1964, some people would still try to stop them from voting?

[Claudette Colvin]

Exactly. Many states would use racist strategies like intentionally confusing and misleading literacy tests to prevent black voters from successfully registering.

[Nimini Ware]

That's horrible.

[Claudette Colvin]

It was, which is why activists were organizing and fighting to draw attention to their cause.

[Nimini Ware]

And luckily, this march did just that. It did.

[Claudette Colvin]

But even that was a struggle. The first two times they attempted a march to Montgomery, they were met with violent resistance from hecklers and state police. Awful images broadcast on Black and white TVs shocked people in households across the country and even motivated the president to provide U.S. army troops and the Alabama National Guard to protect the marchers on their third attempt.

[Nimini Ware]

It sounds like it took so much organizing and fighting. Um, is that Martin Luther King, Jr. Giving a speech?

[Claudette Colvin]

Indeed it is.

[Nimini Ware]

Oh, I know this part. Oh. And it gives me chills every time. This is where Dr. King says, I come to say to you this afternoon, however difficult the moment, however frustrating the hour, it will not be long, because truth, crushed to earth, will rise again.

[Tina]

How long?

[Nimini Ware]

Not long, because no lie can live forever. How long? Not long, because you shall reap what you sow. How long? Not long, because the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.

[Claudette Colvin]

Wow, Nimini, you really know that speech?

[Tina]

Mmm.

[Nimini Ware]

Absolutely. I have the whole thing memorized. But where does Claudette Colvin come into this? And how did a southern city like Gummery, Alabama, become the center for the civil rights movement?

[Claudette Colvin]

Phenomenal questions. Let's stay in Montgomery, but go back a little further and take a look.

[Nimini Ware]

I know where we are, but I don't know when we are. And why are black and white people drinking from different water fountains over there?

[Claudette Colvin]

It's 1955, 10 years before the Voting rights march. A time when people were separated by the color of their skin. This is called segregation. And according to a set of laws called Jim Crow laws that have been around since the end of the Civil War, it's legal. That's about 100 years of laws invented to make life harder for black Americans. There are separate drinking fountains, elevators, hospitals, bathrooms and break rooms, swimming pools, churches, lunch counters. The list goes on and on.

[Nimini Ware]

And buses. Black Americans were forced to sit in the back of buses.

[Claudette Colvin]

And in Montgomery, 40,000 black residents ride the buses. That's 75% of the total riders in the city. And yet they are legally forced to enter through the overcrowded back door of the bus, sit in the back seats, and give up their seats for any white passengers who want to sit down.

[Nimini Ware]

But if we're in 1955, didn't the federal government at least order schools to be integrated in 1954? Everyone should be allowed to go to school together, right?

[Claudette Colvin]

Absolutely. That's what the law said. But the reality in Montgomery and almost everywhere in the south is that some white people were still fighting to keep people apart. And the schools black children are forced to attend are almost always the least funded with the poorest quality supplies, books and classrooms.

[Nimini Ware]

How are those kids supposed to learn?

[Claudette Colvin]

Luckily, there's an organization called the naacp, the national association for the Advancement of Colored People. The branch here in Montgomery was the the first in all of Alabama and was founded way back in 1913.

[Nimini Ware]

Cool. I know about the NAACP. Their goal is to educate and organize folks in the community to fight back against segregation and other types of discrimination so that black people can get the respect and opportunities they deserve.

[Claudette Colvin]

Precisely. And recognizing the needs of black children in Montgomery, the NAACP started a youth group. And guess who they put in charge of shaping young minds?

[Nimini Ware]

Rosa Parks.

[Claudette Colvin]

That's right. And what's really wild is that the thing Rosa Parks is most famous for was actually done by a 15 year old girl from her youth group.

[Nimini Ware]

Claudette Colvin.

[Tina]

Haha.

[Claudette Colvin]

Bingo.

[Nimini Ware]

Wow. It's all coming together. But Lee, why didn't Claudette Colvin get to be as famous as Rosa Parks?

[Claudette Colvin]

Well, even Though she was the first to do it, the movement knew that she was was super young and had other things going on, like being a kid. So the movement chose to set up Rosa Parks to be nationally recognized for protesting on a bus.

[Nimini Ware]

I truly had no idea about all that behind the scenes stuff that made the civil rights movement possible.

[Claudette Colvin]

Yeah, even though Rosa Parks famous protest seems spontaneous. Everything was meticulously planned. Same with the march to Montgomery. It took several tries and a ton of organizations.

[Nimini Ware]

Thank you, Leigh. That was incredibly helpful. I think I have enough information now for the song. Will you take us back to my top secret bunker?

[Claudette Colvin]

Of course.

[Mama]

We'Re back.

[Nimini Ware]

Yes. Oh, and I'm late for a recording session. But luckily I brought my skateboard helmet and knee pads and am ready to roll by Lee.

[Claudette Colvin]

Thank you, Dynamity.

[Nimini Ware]

Okay, listeners, keep up. We are once again on the move. Left, right, down a set of stairs. Hop, hop, hop, hop, hop, hop, hop, hop. Oh, oh, yeah. Still got it. And here we are. Oh, look, the musicians are ready to go. Time to make another epic shining song for the ages. And this time, Nimini's on the mic. Claudette. That's my name. Ms. Alabama Montgomery, to be specific. Hope you don't mind these honorifics. 0905 39. The birth date of a future leader, civil rights activist, a catalyst to be. Montgomery Bus boycott began with me. Montgomery Bus Boycott. That is correct. A lot of people don't know about this juicy tidbit. Couldn't be the face of the movement because I wasn't rich and because of my complexion I'm never in the press. Just think, I was only 15, following my routine in a segregated seat. Years after that occurrence, I couldn't find work and I moved to New New York. And you got into nursing.

[Tina]

It began with me nine months before arose There was Claudette Colby. And it began with me. Did you know? Did you know I wouldn't give up my seat? Nine months before Rosa it was Claudette Goldman.

[Nimini Ware]

Let me start from the beginning. My dad left. Mama's wallet was thinning. See, I was born Claudette Austin. Then I went to live with my uncle and my aunt and that's how I got the name Colvin. Had a little sister, E. I was the oldest. Lost her Napoleon. God only knows my pain. I was sociologically estranged. Booker T. Washington High School. I started going there in 1952. I was in the city, a place I couldn't walk to. So riding the bus is what I had to do. It was 1955. I didn't give up my seat they called the police and they arrested me But I had been learning about my ancestry and then they use counselor with naacp So I said I know my constitutional rights. There is an empty row beside me so this isn't right. Jim Crow says blacks can't sit across from the white.

[Tina]

We always gotta be behind them.

[Nimini Ware]

And this I don't like pulled me off the bus. I didn't fight or bust I didn't feel fear cause I'm a. I was young and tough they put me in an adult cell with no phone call but my friends went to find my mom and it began with me.

[Tina]

Nine months before Rosa it was Claudette Coburn and it began with me did you know? Did you know I wouldn't give up my seat? Nine months before Rosa it was Claudette Corbin.

[Nimini Ware]

One year later we had brought her versus Gayle. I was one of five plaintiffs talking about how the law had failed all of us and we wasn't gonna take it. The federal court, they made, the Supreme Court, they made their decision. They said bus segregation was against the constitution and they ended it permanently. And it began with me.

[Tina]

Nine months before Rosa there was Claude Covid and it began with me. Did you know? Did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat? Nine months before Rosa it was Claudette.

[Nimini Ware]

Give me Claudette, that's my name. Miss Alabama born and raised. 0905. 39. Oh, I almost forgot. The city of Montgomery, Alabama, declared March 2nd Claudette Colvin Day. We'll be right back after a few words. For the grownups.

[Stella]

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[Claudette Colvin]

Wow, that was incredible.

[Nimini Ware]

And while the circumstances couldn't be more different, it's really got me thinking about my own life. Funny how history can inform the present, huh listeners? Hey Tina, do you know where my mom is? Ah, of course, the personal history room. Where else would she be? Yes, Tina, I know we have an interview lined up in five minutes, but I've gotta do something first. Now, do you mind if I borrow your scooter? Thanks, Tina. Right, left, Up a set of stairs. Hop, hop, hop, hop, hop, hop, hop, hop, hop, hop. Oh yeah. Still got it. And here we are. Hi mom.

[Mama]

Hey sweetheart.

[Nimini Ware]

Whatcha doing in here?

[Mama]

Just looking at old pictures. Look at this one.

[Nimini Ware]

Aw, it's me as a teenager.

[Mama]

Honey, that's a picture of me.

[Nimini Ware]

Wow, we really do look alike, huh?

[Mama]

Strong genes, baby.

[Nimini Ware]

Anyway, mom, I wanted to ask more about you setting up the security system. I still can't believe you did that.

[Mama]

Well, getting a top secret bunker up and running is no small task. And I was thrilled to be able to pitch in. So I pulled some permits, got the security system running, hired Tina and the other raccoon and taught them how to use all the sound equipment. Just some behind the scenes details.

[Nimini Ware]

You low key paved the way for my dream.

[Mama]

You're not the first person in this family to love history and hip hop. And I thought your idea to combine them was genius.

[Nimini Ware]

I had no idea you did so much to make this happen.

[Mama]

In my experience, whenever something big happens, it takes a lot of people to pull it off.

[Nimini Ware]

I'm learning that.

[Mama]

Yeah, and not everyone can be the face of a movement. Some people have to set up the security system.

[Nimini Ware]

Thanks mom. I love you and I really appreciate your support.

[Mama]

I love you too.

[Nimini Ware]

Oh look, my old rollerblades. I'll use those to get to the interview.

[Mama]

Don't forget your helmet. Here.

[Nimini Ware]

Great call. OK listeners, it's time to go meet two totally extraordinary people. Down the hall and left and right. And avoid the stairs. This time by using the elevator. Not sure why I didn't take the elevator before, but you know, you live and you learn. And speaking of learning, we have arrived at the room where I have video calls. Today we're meeting Two incredible people. Hi, Roxanne and Stella. Can you kick things off by introducing yourselves?

[Roxane Gay]

My name is Roxanne Gay. I'm a space cowboy and. No, I'm just kidding. My name is Roxane Gay. I am a writer, a teacher, and an editor.

[I]

My name is Stella Carolina and I am six years old. My favorite thing in life is tv. Hi, Roxanne.

[Mama]

Hi, Stella.

[Nimini Ware]

Stella, what were you hoping to learn from Roxanne about Claudette Colvin?

[I]

Why do kids learn about Rosa Parks but not Claudette Colvin?

[Roxane Gay]

That's a great question, Stella. You know, there are a couple reasons. One, when Claudette Colvin refused to give up her seat to a white woman, she was a teenager. And at the time, and quite frankly, even now, people don't always take kids seriously. So Rosa Parks, when she refused to give up her seat, she was older, she was a professional. She had, you know, the right skin tone, she had the right kind of hair. And so leaders of the civil rights movement thought that Rosa Parks might be a better person to represent the entire move. You know, that doesn't take away from what Claudette Colvin did.

[I]

How much has changed with civil rights since Claudette Colvin was a kid?

[Roxane Gay]

When Claudette Colvin first refused to give up her seat on that bus in Alabama, things were really different. And we still deal with racism and other forms of bigotry now. But most of the laws that made it possible for Claudette Colvin to be arrested no longer exist. We no longer live, ideally in a segregated society. Everyone gets to live together and share our communities together. We are more able to point out injustice when we see it. And I'll tell you what, cell phone cameras have done an incredible amount of good because now we can provide evidence of the issues that we deal with, particularly with police and other sort of forms of public racism that we see on a day to day basis. So things are getting better, but we shouldn't get comfortable because we have so.

[I]

Much left to do do, like how much to do.

[Roxane Gay]

You know, I think about that every single day. Every single day. I wonder, like, is this something we're going to solve in my lifetime? I will say that we have to continue to fight for civil rights until lawmakers can no longer decide which rights we're allowed to have. And so right now we have quite a ways left to go, but at least we know where we're headed.

[Nimini Ware]

Stella, do you have any questions for Roxanne about her work or career?

[I]

How are you, Roxanne, part of making change now?

[Roxane Gay]

Well, one of the key things I try to do in my work is to talk about the issues that I find to be most pressing in ways that everyone will be able to connect to. And I always try to bring attention to the people who are taking the really big risks by protesting, sometimes even having to engage with law enforcement and doing some of the really challenging things that can come along with living the life of an activist.

[I]

How can I be an activist?

[Roxane Gay]

You know, one of the best ways that you can be an activist, especially at your age, is to pay attention to the news and ask questions about the world and the people that we elect as our leaders and the issues that we should all be caring about. Out.

[Nimini Ware]

Wow. Does this mean that anyone can be an activist?

[Roxane Gay]

Anyone can be an activist. All you have to do is care about yourself and other people and the world that we live in. If you do that, you are already well on your way to being an activist.

[I]

I already do that, yes.

[Roxane Gay]

See, I mean, look at you. You're an activist already, and I think that's amazing. I think more people should be willing to be an activist because there are a lot of problems in this world and it's gonna take all of us to solve them.

[Nimini Ware]

This has been so great. Thank you both for being here.

[I]

Thank you for answering all my questions.

[Roxane Gay]

Well, thank you for asking the questions. It's been just the highlight of my day talking to you Stella.

[Nimini Ware]

Listeners. Thanks for joining in today and for going on a journey with me to learn about the great Claudette Colvin and a giant. Thank you to today's guest, Stella and Roxane Gay. Remember parents and teachers. You can download a free activity related to today's episode by visiting storypirates.com historicalrecords we'll be back next week to make another historical record. Until then, remember to make history, you gotta make some noise. Bye.

[Lee Overtree]

Historical Records is produced in partnership Story Pirate Studios, Questlove's 215 Entertainment. John Glickman and iHeart Podcasts. Executive produced by Amir Questlove Thompson, John Glickman, Lee Overtree and Benjamin Salka. Executive produced for iHeart podcasts by Noah Brown. Producers for Story Pirate Studios are Isabella Riccio, Sam Baer, Eric Gerson, Andrew Miller, Lee Overtree, Peter McNerney and Nimini Ware. Producers for 215 are Sean G, Brittany Benjamin and Zara Zolman. Hosted by Nimini Ware. Our head writer is Duke Doyle. Our historians are Gabe Pacheco and Lee Polis. Music supervision for 215 by Stroh Elliott. Scoring and music supervision for Story Pirate Studios by Eric Gerson Sound design and mixing by Sam Baer at the Relic Room in New York City. Song mastering by Josh Hahn. Theme song by Dan Foster and Eric Erson and produced by Eric Erson. Production coordination by Isabel Ericchio. Production management by Maggie Lee. The line producer for Story Pirate Studios is Glynnis Bralt. PR for Story Pirate Studios is provided by Naomi Shaw. Episode artwork by Camilla Franklin. This episode was written by Duke Doyle. The song Claudette Colvin was written by Nimini Ware and produced by Stroh Elliott, with additional production by Eric Gerson. Special guests Roxane Gay and kid interviewer Stella. This episode features performances by Barbara Curran, Tessa Hirsch, Peter McNerney, Lee Overtree and Lee Polis. Special thanks, J.T.

[Roxane Gay]

Soo.