A (3:16)

My favorite part of the whole day.

B (3:19)

Was when we would collect up whatever food it was that we were going to be bringing to the Thanksgiving meal. It's usually like cranberry bread and some apple pie and collect that up, and we would get on the New York.

A (3:31)

City subway, and everyone on the subway.

B (3:34)

Was carrying their food, whatever it was that they were bringing, right? Like a tin of sweet potatoes wrapped in foil, or like a loaf of bread, maybe a bottle of wine, whatever it was. And I just always felt it's. It's hard still. It was hard then for me to kind of articulate what it was.

A (3:52)

It's still hard.

B (3:52)

But I always just kind of felt in that moment that I was part of this larger community of people all going together to join up with other people, to share this meal together. And it's always been something that I think about now on Thanksgiving, this sort of beautiful moment of seeing everyone off to their various meals with their contributions. And I've been thinking about it a lot this year because I feel like somehow this podcast is like that. It's that same sort of indescribable sense.

A (4:26)

Of coming together, of being a community.

B (4:30)

Even though we don't actually, like, know each other in real life. I didn't know those people on the subway, but still, somehow, for that moment when we were riding the train together.

A (4:39)

We were a part of something.

B (4:41)

And I feel like we all are a part of something. And I feel it more now as the holidays are approaching and here on Thanksgiving Day and as we move into the Christmas season. And I'm just so filled with joy and so filled with gratitude for that. So thank you for being a part of this, a part of this community.

A (4:59)

You belong here.

B (5:00)

You matter. I'm so happy that you're here. And, you know, if you are struggling this Thanksgiving, I know it can be hard sometimes. We don't have people's houses to go to or people to come to ours. And I just wanted to say, borrow.

A (5:14)

Us, borrow this community. Adopt us.

B (5:18)

We are your friends. We are your family. Share Thanksgiving with us by listening to this podcast and know that we are all out there being your community. So thank you for being here. Okay. A few quick announcements before. Before we get into the episode. The first one is it's time to.

A (5:36)

Announce the winner of our next prize.

B (5:39)

Drawing, the winner of the Storytime for Grownups mug. This is very exciting. It doesn't feel like it's been long enough, but I just looked at my calendar and it has been. So it is time to announce that. And then I will announce the next prize on Monday. So I'll tell you on Monday what you could win next. So the way to enter these drawings, the way to win these prizes is to buy a copy of my novel Christmas Carol. There's a link in the Show Notes to the page where you can buy it. Once you do that, you click another link in the Show Notes, which is clearly labeled. It takes you to the instructions for how to enter the drawing. And you can also request a signed book plate, which is a sticker from me. I write your name or the name of whoever you want to give the book to. I write a little message and I sign it. Then you can stick that in into one of the front pages of the book and turn it into a signed copy. You don't have to enter anything to get that. You just get it. Buy a book. Get a book plate. But you do have to let me know that you want one by following the directions that you will find in the link in the show notes. So that is how you enter these drawings. But now I would like to announce that the winner of the Storytime for Grown Ups mug is Kathleen Leerman. I hope I'm saying that name correctly. I'll say it again.

A (6:55)

Kathleen Leerman.

B (6:56)

If that is you, please go to my website, faith k.moore.com and click on Contact or follow the link in the Show Notes to the contact page. Let me know that you heard your name announced as the winner of the.

A (7:08)

Mug and let me know what address.

B (7:10)

You would like me to mail the mug to. And I will get that out to you and I hope that you enjoy it with your cup of tea or whatever your beverages of choice for listening to this show. So congratulations, Kathleen Leerman. You have won the Storytime for Grownups mug and the rest of you that have entered. On Monday, I will let you know what the next prize is. You are still entered. You're entered into all the prize drawings by buying just one book, though I hope that you'll buy many and give them away as gifts. So that's that. Everything else is just reminders. So this is your last reminder to get your Christmas cards in. If you have signed up to do the Christmas card exchange, which you can do through the drawing room community, that's our online community. You have to sign up to be part of it. There is a link in the Show Notes to do that if you want to. And if you, once you're there, you.

A (8:00)

Click on the announcements channel, you will.

B (8:02)

Find a Google form and that gives you all the instructions that you need to participate. We're sending Christmas cards to each other. I'm really excited about it. It's really fun. I'm starting to get the cards and they're beautiful and I can't wait to send them out to all of you. So this is your last reminder because the deadline to get them into the mail to me is November 30th. So if they're not in the mail by November 30th, they won't arrive to me in time for me to send them back out to all the people who you're sending them to. So please make sure that if you want to do that, you're getting those cards into the mail right now. Because it's almost, believe it or not, it is almost November 30th. So this is the last reminder about the Christmas card exchange. Also, this is the last reminder that you are invited to hang out with me and my dad, Andrew Clavin and my brother, Spencer Clavin for a live stream on Friday, which is actually now tomorrow. So Friday, November 28th, it will be at 4pm Eastern, and we'll just be hanging out, chatting. We're going to be answering your questions. So if you have questions, you should get them in. So in the show notes also of this episode, there is first of all a link to that live stream. So it's obviously not live now, but that's the link where we'll go live. So save that. And there is a link to a Google form where you can submit your questions and you can ask us anything you want. You can ask questions to all three of us, just to one, just to two, whatever you want. So check that out there. And I hope that you will join us. It's going to be a fun kind of cozy holiday time. So I, I really hope that you'll join us for that tomorrow, November 28th at 4pm Eastern. And lastly, if you haven't had enough of hanging out with me and you'd like to hang out with me some more, Tea Time is coming up on Tuesday, December 2nd. That's at 8pm Eastern over in our online community, the drawing room, there's a link to that as well, in the show notes you have to be landed gentry to participate. So if you'd like to find out more about, you can click the link and just sort of figure out what that is and hopefully sign up because I would love to chat with you. It's like a voice chat, like a phone call where we get to talk to each other and I always have a really, really fun time and I'm looking forward to it, so that'll be a fun one. We'll be talking about a little princess. Of course we can also talk about Christmas Carol since I know a lot of you have now bought the book. So if you have questions that you would like to ask or just things you'd like to say about it, then we can talk about that as well. So that's going to be a really fun time. That's December 2nd. It's a Tuesday at 8pm Eastern and.

A (10:28)

In the drawing room.

B (10:29)

Okay. Other than that, just like the show, subscribe, follow it, do whatever you do to shows and if you have a minute, just give it a five star rating and a little review.

A (10:40)

Spread the word.

B (10:41)

I would love to get more and more people to listen and join this community. So please spread the word if you can. Okay, so last time we read chapter eight. Today we're going to be reading chapter nine of a Little Princess. And so let's just remind ourselves first of what happened and then we will.

A (11:00)

Talk a little bit.

B (11:00)

I've got some great comments and questions today, so here is the recap.

A (11:04)

Alright, so where we left off, Sara.

B (11:07)

Is now a kind of glorified scullery mate.

A (11:10)

She has to teach the youngest students, but she also runs errands, men's clothes.

B (11:14)

And she does anything that the other servants basically ask of her. No one is nice to her and.

A (11:19)

The other students shun her because now she dresses in too small clothes and.

B (11:23)

Has to do chores and all of this.

A (11:24)

And as she gets shabbier and shabbier.

B (11:27)

Ms. Minchin has her eat her meals with the servants because she doesn't want any parents to find out that this.

A (11:32)

Is how she is treating Sara. At first, Sara is kind of too.

B (11:36)

Grief stricken to do anything but get through the day. She tries to be good and do what everyone asks in the hopes that.

A (11:43)

They'Ll be kind to her, but they aren't.

B (11:45)

Becky is the only one who is.

A (11:47)

Kind to her and she comes in.

B (11:48)

The morning and the evening to see.

A (11:50)

If she can help Sara with anything. Eventually, Sara sees Ermengarde again and assumes.

B (11:55)

That she doesn't want to be friends with her anymore. And Ermengarde is very hurt by this.

A (11:59)

But at first doesn't know what to do.

B (12:01)

Finally, she's so upset that she creeps.

A (12:03)

Upstairs at night to find Sara in her attic room.

B (12:06)

And the two realize that they had a misunderstanding. Sara assumed that Ermengarde wouldn't want to know her anymore, and Ermengarde assumed that.

A (12:14)

Sara's coldness was because she didn't want.

B (12:15)

To be friends anymore. Their rekindled friendship kind of awakens Sara's ability to pretend. And she decides to pretend that she.

A (12:23)

Is a prisoner in the Bastille and.

B (12:25)

That Becky is the prisoner next door. Ermengarde promises to visit her whenever she can. All right, I'm going to read 4 comments today. The first one comes from Debbie Rudin.

A (12:35)

She writes, hooray for Ermengarde. She showed growth as a character. She advocated for herself, possibly for the first time in her life. I'm so proud of her.

B (12:46)

This next one comes from Lucy, and Lucy is seven. She says, my name is Lucy and.

A (12:51)

I'm seven years old. I love how Ermengarde came back. It's been a while since we've heard about her. I like how Sara is pretending to be the Count of Monte Cristo, imagining.

B (13:02)

That she's been forgotten in prison for years. Also, I like your voice for Ms. Minchin. She always sounds quite rude. Thank you, Lucy. That's very lovely to hear.

A (13:12)

Next is Nora, who is 5 years.

B (13:15)

Old, and she is Lucy's sister, I believe, if I'm reading this email correctly. So this one says, I'm Nora and I'm five. I love how Sara is very kind. And I love Your voice for Ms. Minchin. Thank you very much, Nora. And lastly, this is from Julia, who I believe is Lucy and Nora's mom. So Julia says, I thought it was.

A (13:34)

Interesting that there still seems to be differences between Sara and Becky, despite them.

B (13:39)

Quite literally saying how much they're now the same.

A (13:42)

Sara seems to cling to her education to stay above her new station. Becky also still treats Sara with some superiority as she comes to help her.

B (13:51)

Get dressed and such every morning. I would love to see Becky valued.

A (13:54)

For her kindness and virtue at some point. All right. Yes.

B (13:59)

Okay. So now we're kind of getting a sense of Sara's new life, right? Her life as Cinderella, a princess in disguise rather than a literal princess.

A (14:09)

She's now almost completely removed, right, from the life that she once led.

B (14:14)

And she's treated like a servant. And eventually she isn't even allowed to.

A (14:18)

Eat her meals with the other girls because she looks too shabby.

B (14:21)

So she has to eat down in the kitchen so that no visiting parents or anyone like that might see her and wonder why a pupil at this school is being treated so badly. So her transformation from princess to servant girl is complete. It's the total reversal that we get in, like most Cinderella narratives. And it's happened to Sara, and now we're basically seeing what that looks like.

A (14:43)

For her and how she's handling it. And we're seeing which of the people from her old life are still her.

B (14:50)

Friends, which people cared about her for herself, right? For the true princessness of her, and which people cared about her only because.

A (14:58)

Of her status and her fancy things.

B (15:00)

Which would be the literal princessness of her.

A (15:03)

And I think it's really lovely and.

B (15:05)

Very important, like, thematically, that the people.

A (15:08)

Who still want to be with Sara.

B (15:10)

Who actually feel that Sara is still the exact same person that she was, even though everything external has changed for her.

A (15:18)

Those people are kind of the lowest.

B (15:21)

Of the low in the social pecking order. We've got Ermengarde, who's the dunce of the school. She's got no friends. She does terribly at her lessons.

A (15:29)

She's like the outsider, the kid who.

B (15:32)

Gets picked last for sports teams or whatever, the unpopular kid. However you want to imagine her in a more modern context, that's who she is.

A (15:39)

But it's Ermengarde who doesn't even think to change her mind about Sara.

B (15:44)

She still views Sara as exactly the same person as she's always been. And she worries that it's Sara who doesn't want to be with her anymore. Here's this really sweet exchange that we get between Ermengarde and Sara. Once Ermengarde has worked up the courage to come and find Sara in her attic. I'm going to jump around a little bit, cut out some parts. But this is basically what it says. It says, oh, Sara, please tell me what is the matter?

A (16:08)

Why don't you like me anymore?

B (16:11)

I do like you, Sara answered.

A (16:13)

I thought, you see, everything is different now. I thought you were different. Why?

B (16:18)

It was you who were different. She cried.

A (16:20)

You didn't want to talk to me. I didn't know what to do.

B (16:23)

It was you who were different after I came back, right?

A (16:27)

So Sara had assumed that Ermengarde would be like all the other people, the.

B (16:31)

Other girls and Ms. Minchin and everyone. And she thought that Ermengarde wouldn't want to know Sara now that Sara is poor.

A (16:38)

But Ermengarde, the one that everyone overlooks.

B (16:41)

The one who everyone sort of despairs.

A (16:43)

Of, it turns out she is the.

B (16:46)

Best of all of them because she.

A (16:48)

Knows that Sara is just as much.

B (16:49)

A princess now as she ever was. And she doesn't even have to convince herself of this. She just takes it as a given.

A (16:57)

And then of course, there's Becky, right? Becky also knows that Sara is just as much a princess now as she was before.

B (17:05)

And that's why she still calls her Miss and tries to help her get dressed and things like that whenever she can, right?

A (17:12)

Becky still holds the same reverence for Sara that she always has because Sara.

B (17:17)

Is still the same person that she's always been.

A (17:21)

So these two people, right? Ermengarde and Becky, these two people who.

B (17:24)

Are overlooked and disregarded by the people around them. Although of course in different ways. And we could argue that Becky has it worse than Ermengarde, but I think thematically we can lump them together in this instance, right? So these two disregarded people are the ones who are actually better people than all of the fancy, rich upper class girls at the school. And certainly better people than Ms. Minchin, who is turning out to be a real wicked stepmother. I mean, this woman is not just cold and calculating like we maybe thought she was at the beginning.

A (17:54)

She's actually legitimately evil, I think, right? She knows what she's doing to this.

B (17:58)

Little girl and she doesn't care.

A (18:00)

She sends Sara to eat in the kitchen.

B (18:02)

Because here is a quote.

A (18:04)

Girls like a grievance. And if she begins to tell romantic stories about herself, she will become an.

B (18:09)

Ill used heroine and parents will be given a wrong impression, right? So she's like, I know I'm doing something that other people would think is cruel, but I'm gonna keep doing it anyway and just hide the evidence. I mean, that is a bad, bad woman. Okay, but anyway, so Cinderella in most versions of the story has like, friends or helpers who keep her going in her time of trial. Often these helpers are her animal friends because we're dealing with the world of fairy tales. But there are some versions where there are fairies involved and some of them have like old crone characters that befriend her.

A (18:46)

But here, our Cinderella, Sara, has Becky and Ermengarde. So she's not completely alone. She's got her entourage.

B (18:56)

Essentially. She's not a literal princess anymore. She doesn't have all the girls from the schoolroom flocking around her or Ms. Minchin praising everything she does. And Having her walk in the front of the line and all of that. But she still has people willing to serve her, willing to do anything for her out of love for her. And that's because she's a princess on.

A (19:14)

The inside, and she inspires that kind of love. So she's got friends even in her adversity. But I do want to pause and.

B (19:22)

Just acknowledge Julia's comment about Becky, because I think to us as modern readers.

A (19:28)

This does feel a little jarring. And that's this issue that even though Sara keeps saying that she and Becky.

B (19:35)

Are just the same, just two little.

A (19:37)

Girls, and even though Sara is kinder to Becky than anyone has ever been, and she really does seem to see Becky's humanity and really does seem to feel that Becky is her friend, there is still a sense that Becky is.

B (19:51)

A servant sort of person, and Sara is an uncle, upper class sort of person. And it's a weird kind of message that we're getting, because the way that I see it is that the author, Burnett, Right. Is both presenting us with a world.

A (20:04)

In which the class system is real, where people who are born into the.

B (20:09)

Servant class and not educated properly and have to work for a living are inherently different in this world than people who are born wealthy and get a good education and don't have to work. But also, she's presenting us with a.

A (20:23)

World in which you can recognize that a person is still a person regardless.

B (20:28)

Of their class, and you can reach.

A (20:29)

Across class divides in friendship and in love and really mean it.

B (20:35)

Okay?

A (20:35)

But for us as modern, and particularly.

B (20:38)

For those of us who are American as well, it's hard to understand how.

A (20:42)

You can see that someone from a different class is exactly like you and.

B (20:47)

Also accept that they're going to call you miss and help you get dressed, and that this is right, because that's.

A (20:53)

The sort of person that they are.

B (20:55)

I mean, this is coming from Burnett. It's coming from the narrator, right?

A (20:59)

When she tells us that Becky still.

B (21:01)

Views Sara as a princess, she says, here's a quote.

A (21:04)

The first it must be owned was Becky, just Becky, Right? Just Becky.

B (21:10)

That implies a level of real inferiority.

A (21:12)

And even as Sara has been telling us all along that she and Becky are just the same. It's almost like, for Burnet, now that Becky is what she is, now that she is a scullery maid, she can't.

B (21:25)

Really get out of that social class. We can see her as good and.

A (21:28)

Kind and worthy, but we can't see her as not a scullery maid. And Sara Seems to feel this way too, but about herself, right? She isn't sure if she could even become like Becky. Like if she isn't allowed to learn.

B (21:43)

Anything more than she already knows, Would she eventually become like Becky?

A (21:47)

Or is there something inside of her that makes her upper class?

B (21:51)

Here is what it says.

A (21:52)

It says if I do not remind myself of the things I have learned, perhaps I may forget them. She said to herself, I am almost a scullery maid. And if I am a scullery maid who knows nothing, I shall be like poor Becky. I wonder if I could quite forget and begin to drop my H's and not remember that Henry VIII had had six wives. Okay, so Sara seems also to see.

B (22:15)

Herself as different than a scullery maid.

A (22:17)

Even though she now is essentially a scullery maid. Because she was born wealthy and is now educated and is now that sort of person. So just like Burnette seems to feel that we can see Becky as good and kind and worthy. But we can't see her as not a scullery maid. She also seems to feel that we.

B (22:35)

Can see Sarah as Becky poor and put upon and doing servants work.

A (22:38)

But we can't see her as not upper class.

B (22:41)

Which I think is really hard for us to understand with our mindset of like upward mobility and being self made and rising above the life you were born into in all of this. But that just wasn't the world that.

A (22:53)

Burnett was living in.

B (22:54)

And I think we need to give her some grace on that.

A (22:57)

We can't judge her by modern standards.

B (22:59)

So when she says that Becky and Sarah are exactly the same, seem she means it. They're exactly the same on the inside.

A (23:05)

But she also lives in a world.

B (23:07)

In which a scullery maid is a scullery maid. Even if she's the best scullery maid that ever lived. And can be legitimately friends with a girl who was born rich. So I did want to address that because I think that's part of the.

A (23:18)

World of this book.

B (23:19)

And we need to sort of allow that in our minds. Otherwise we'll get annoyed, I think.

A (23:24)

But I want to end with Nora's observation about Sarah being kind.

B (23:28)

And Lucy's observation about Sarah playing pretend about the Bastille. So before all this happened to Sara, we got a lot of what we now can understand was foreshadowing from Sara.

A (23:40)

About whether or not she is actually a good person.

B (23:44)

Or if her sort of cushy life just made it seem like she was a good person.

A (23:49)

And now she's having to find out which of those is true. Is she still a princess on the inside? Or was it just that the trappings.

B (23:56)

Of Princess Ness made her seem like a princess? And I think Nora is right. Sara is still kind. She's still the person she's always been. And one attribute she's always had that.

A (24:07)

She is showing now is courage.

B (24:10)

Right? Princesses are courageous, not because they go into battle and fight dragons or whatever.

A (24:15)

But because they have to continue to.

B (24:17)

Maintain all their princess attributes like kindness and loyalty and love and all of this.

A (24:22)

They have to maintain them even in the face of true hardship.

B (24:26)

And Sara is showing how courageous she.

A (24:29)

Is in this situation by not falling.

B (24:31)

Apart, even as Ms. Minchin and the servants pile more and more and more work on her. Okay, here is what we're told. It says, during the first month or.

A (24:39)

Two, Sara thought that her willingness to do things as well as she could.

B (24:43)

And her silence under reproof might soften.

A (24:46)

Those who drove her so hard. In her proud little heart, she wanted them to see that she was trying to earn her living and not accepting charity. But the time came when she saw that no one was softened at all. And the more willing she was to do as she was told, the more.

B (25:02)

Domineering and exacting careless housemaids became, and.

A (25:06)

The more ready a scolding cook was to blame her. So she's doing everything they give her to do, and she's not complaining, even.

B (25:13)

Though she has a right to complain.

A (25:15)

And even though she deserves better. That's part of being a fairy tale princess, right?

B (25:19)

Think of Cinderella or Snow White or Rapunzel. I mean, any of them, they're all suffering and they all put a brave face on and get things done.

A (25:27)

And that's what Sara is doing as well. And she's humble, right? We can see what an amazing job.

B (25:34)

Sara is doing in this truly awful situation.

A (25:36)

But Sara feels that she's failing. She feels that she isn't living up to her image of herself because of.

B (25:43)

What happened with Ermengarde. Here's what it says.

A (25:45)

It says, you are nicer than I am, said Sara. I was too proud to try and make friends. You see, now that trials have come, they have shown that I am not a nice child. I was afraid they would perhaps wrinkling her forehead wisely.

B (25:59)

That is what they were sent for. Now, of course, she is still a nice child.

A (26:03)

But she regrets the fact that she.

B (26:05)

Was proud and thought that Ermengarde was going to be just like all the other children. And she sees that she didn't give.

A (26:11)

Ermengarde the benefit of the doubt, while.

B (26:13)

Ermengarde still saw Sara as exactly the same Sara that she always was. But I don't know about you, I think we can forgive Sara that and still feel that she's maintaining her fairy tale princessness through this adversity. So I want to just end with.

A (26:27)

Ermengarde because remember back when Sara and.

B (26:30)

Ermengarde first became friends, I said that even though Ermengarde clearly gets a great deal in getting to be Sara's friend.

A (26:36)

Sara also gets something out of being friends with Ermengarde. At that point.

B (26:41)

I said that a person like Ermengarde, who is so kind of of the world, a person like that, was a good friend for a person like Sarah, who was so imaginative and dreamy. And I stand by that. But now look at what this friendship.

A (26:53)

Is doing for Sara. It's waking up her ability to pretend.

B (26:58)

This superpower that Sara has, this ability.

A (27:01)

To pretend things and almost make them.

B (27:04)

Real, like pretending to scatter largesse, but actually making Becky's life better.

A (27:08)

And it's Ermengarde, or at least Sara, remembering that she and Ermengarde are friends.

B (27:13)

It'S that that wakes this superpower of.

A (27:16)

Hers back up again.

B (27:17)

Okay, so these people, Becky and Ermengarde.

A (27:20)

Who are overlooked by everyone else, these are the people who are going to.

B (27:25)

Save the day, in a sense, because these are the people who are going.

A (27:28)

To keep Sara from falling into despair.

B (27:31)

Okay, so let's get back to Sara and see what happens next. I mean, what's going to happen? How's she going to get out of this situation? Is she going to get out of this situation? So let's find out.

A (27:42)

And please don't forget to write to me.

B (27:44)

It's faithkmoore.com you click on Contact. Send me all your questions and thoughts. There's also a link in the Show Notes to that contact page. I love getting your questions. I love your comments. So write in, kids. Write in as well. Just let me know that you're a kid and how old you are. And I hope that I will see you tomorrow at the live stream at 4pm Eastern. There's a link in the Show Notes. I hope you'll click it and I hope to find you there when I start streaming. Have a wonderful, wonderful Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone, and thank you for being a part of Storytime for Grownups.

A (28:17)

All right, let's get started with chapter nine of A Little Princess by Frances Hodgson Burnett. It's story time. Chapter 9 Melchizedek the third person in the trio was Lottie. She was a small thing and did not know what adversity meant, and was much bewildered by the alterations she saw in her young adopted mother. She had heard it rumored that strange things had happened to Sarah, but she could not understand why she looked different, why she wore an old black frock and came into the schoolroom only to teach instead of to sit in her place of honor and learn lessons herself. There had been much whispering among the little ones when it had been discovered that Sarah no longer lived in the rooms in which Emily had so long sat in state. Lottie's chief difficulty was that Sarah said so little when one asked her questions at 7. Mysteries must be made very clear if.

B (29:26)

One is to understand them.

A (29:29)

Are you very poor now, Sara?

B (29:31)

She had asked confidentially the first morning.

A (29:34)

Her friend took charge of the small French class. Are you as poor as a beggar? She thrust a fat hand into the slim one and opened round, tearful eyes. I don't want you to be as poor as a beggar. She looked as if she was going to cry, and Sara hurriedly consoled her. Beggars have nowhere to live, she said courageously. I have a place to live in. Where do you live? Persisted Lottie. The new girl sleeps in your room, and it isn't pretty anymore. I live in another room, said Sara. Is it a nice one? Inquired Lottie. I want to go and see it. You must not talk, said Sara. Ms. Minchin is looking at us. She will be angry with me for letting you whisper. She had found out already that she was to be held accountable for everything which was objected to. If the children were not attentive, if they talked, if they were restless, it was she who would be reproved. But Lottie was a determined little person. If Sara would not tell her where she lived, she would find out in some other way. She talked to her small companions and hung about the elder girls and listened when they were gossiping and acting upon certain information they had unconsciously let drop. She started late one afternoon on a voyage of discovery, climbing stairs she had never known the existence of until she reached the attic floor. There she found two doors near each other, and opening one she saw her beloved Sarah standing upon an old table and looking out of a window. Sara. She cried, aghast. Mama.

B (31:21)

Sara.

A (31:23)

She was aghast because the attic was so bare and ugly and seemed so far away from all the world. Her short legs had seemed to have been mounting hundreds of stairs. Sara turned round at the sound of her voice. It was her turn to be aghast.

B (31:39)

What would happen now if Lottie began.

A (31:42)

To cry and anyone chanced to hear? They were both lost. She jumped down from her table and ran to the child. Don't cry and make a noise, she implored. I shall be scolded if you do, and I have been scolded all day. It's. It's not such a bad room, Lottie, isn't it? Gasped Lottie, and as she looked round it she bit her lip. She was a spoiled child yet, but she was fond enough of her adopted parent to make an effort to control herself for her sake. Then somehow it was quite possible that any place in which Sara lived might turn out to be nice. Why isn't it, Sara? She almost whispered. Sara hugged her close and tried to laugh. There was a sort of comfort in the warmth of the plump, childish body. She had had a hard day and had been staring out of the window with hot eyes, meaning she was near tears. You can see all sorts of things you can't see downstairs, she said. What sort of things? Demanded Lottie, with that curiosity. Sara could always awaken even in bigger girls chimneys quite close to us, with smoke curling up in wreaths and clouds and going up into the sky, and sparrows hopping about and talking to each other just as if they were people and other attic windows where heads may.

B (33:11)

Pop out at any minute and you.

A (33:13)

Can wonder who they belong to and it all feels as high up as if it was another world. Oh, let me see it. Cried Lottie. Lift me up. Sara lifted her up and they stood on the old table together and leaned on the edge of the flat window in the roof and looked out. Anyone who has not done this does not know what a different world they saw. The slates spread out on either side of them and slanted down into the rain gutter pipes. The sparrows being at home there, twittered and hopped about quite without fear. Two of them perched on the chimney top nearest, and quarreled with each other fiercely until one pecked the other and drove him away. The garret window next to theirs was shut because the house next door was empty. I wish someone lived there, sara said. It is so close that if there was a little girl in the attic, we could talk to each other through the windows and climb over to see each other if we were not afraid of falling. The sky seemed so much nearer than when one saw it from the street that Lottie was enchanted. From the attic window among the chimney pots, the things which were happening in the world below seemed almost unreal. One scarcely believed in the existence of Miss Minchin and Miss Amelia in the schoolroom, and the roll of wheels in the square seemed a sound belonging to another existence. Oh, Sarah. Cried Lottie, cuddling in her guarding arm. I like this attic. I like is nicer than downstairs. Look at that sparrow, whispered Sara. I wish I had some crumbs to throw at him. I have. Some came in a little shriek from Lottie. I have part of my bun in my pocket. I bought it with my penny yesterday, and I sieved a bit. When they threw out a few crumbs, the sparrow jumped and flew away to an adjacent chimney top. He was evidently not accustomed to intimates in attics, and unexpected crumbs startled him. But when Lottie remained quite still and Sarah chirped very softly, almost as if she were a sparrow herself, he saw that the thing which had alarmed him represented hospitality after all. He put his head on one side and from his perch on the chimney looked down at the crumbs with twinkling eyes. Lottie could scarcely keep still. Will he come? Will he come?

B (35:44)

She whispered.

A (35:46)

His eyes look as if he would, sorrow whispered back. He is thinking and thinking whether he dare. Yes, he will. Yes, he is coming. He flew down and hopped toward the crumbs, but stopped a few inches away from them, putting his head on one side again, as if reflecting on the chances that Sara and Lottie might turn out to be big cats and jump on him at last. His heart told him they were really nicer than they looked, and he hopped nearer and nearer, darted at the biggest crumb with a lightning peck, seized it and carried it away to the other side of the chimney. Now he knows, said Sora, and he will come back for the others. He did come back, and even brought a friend, and the friend went away and brought a relative, and among them they made a hearty meal, over which they twittered and chattered and exclaimed, stopping every now and then to put their heads on one side and examine Lottie and Sara. Lottie was so delighted that she quite forgot her first shocked impression of the attic. In fact, when she was lifted down from the table and returned to earthly.

B (36:52)

Things, as it were, Sorrow was able.

A (36:53)

To point out to her many beauties in the room, which she herself would.

B (36:57)

Not have suspected the existence of.

A (37:00)

It is so little and so high above everything, she said, that it is almost like a nest in a tree. The slanting ceiling is so funny. See, you can scarcely stand up at this end of the room, and when the Morning begins to come. I can lie in bed and look right up into the sky through that flat window in the roof. It is like a square patch of light. If the sun is going to shine, little pink clouds float about and I feel as if I could touch them. And if it rains, the drops patter and patter as if they were saying something nice. Then if there are stars you can lie and try to count how many go into the patch. It takes such a lot. And just look at that tiny rusty grate in the corner. If it was polished and there was a fire in it, just think how nice it would be. You see, it's really a beautiful little room. She was walking round the small place, holding Lottie's hand and making gestures which described all the beauties she was making herself. See, she quite made Lottie see them too. Lottie could always believe in the things Sara made pictures of. You see, she said, there could be a thick soft blue Indian rug on the floor, and in that corner there could be a soft little sofa with cushions to curl up on. And just over it could be a shelf full of books so that one could reach them easily. And there could be a fur rug before the fire and hangings on the wall to cover up the whitewash. And pictures. They would have to be little ones, but they could be beautiful. And there could be a lamp with a deep rose colored shade and a table in the middle with things to have tea with and a little fat copper kettle singing on the hob. And the bed could be quite different. It could be made soft and covered with a lovely silk coverlet. It could be beautiful. And perhaps we could coax the sparrows until we made such friends with them that they would come and peck at.

B (38:59)

The window and ask to be let in.

A (39:01)

Oh, Sarah, cried Lottie. I should like to live here. When Sarah had persuaded her to go downstairs again and after setting her on her way, had come back to her attic, she stood in the middle of it and looked about her. The enchantment of her imaginings for Lottie had died away. The bed was hard and covered with its dingy quilt. The whitewashed wall showed its broken patches. The floor was cold and bare. The grate was broken and rusty and the battered footstool tilted sideways on its injured leg. The only seat in the room. She sat down on it for a few minutes and let her head drop in her hands. The mere fact that Lottie had come and gone away again made things seem a little worse, just as perhaps prisoners feel a little more desolate after visitors come and go, leaving them behind. It's a lonely place, she said. Sometimes it's the loneliest place in the world. She was sitting in this way when her attention was attracted by a slight sound near her. She lifted her head to see where it came from, and if she had been a nervous child, she would have left her seat on the battered footstool in a great hurry. A large rat was sitting up on its hindquarters and sniffing the air in an interested manner. Some of Lottie's crumbs had dropped upon the floor and their scent had drawn him out of his hole. He looked so queer and so like a gray whiskered dwarf or gnome that Sara was rather fascinated. He looked at her with his bright eyes as if he were asking a question. He was evidently so doubtful that one of the child's queer thoughts came into her mind. I dare say it is rather hard to be a rat, she mused. Nobody likes you. People jump and run away and scream out, oh, a horrid rat.

B (41:06)

I shouldn't like people to scream and.

A (41:08)

Jump and say, oh, a horrid sorrow the moment they saw me and set traps for me and pretend they were dinner. It's so different to be a sparrow. But nobody asked this rat if he wanted to be a rat when he was made. Nobody said, wouldn't you rather be a sparrow? She had sat so quietly that the rat had begun to take courage. He was very much afraid of her, but perhaps he had a heart like the sparrow, and it told him that she was not a thing which pounced. He was very hungry. He had a wife and a large family in the wall, and they had had frightfully bad luck for several days. He had left the children crying bitterly and felt he would risk a good deal for a few crumbs. So he cautiously dropped upon his feet. Come on, said Zara. I'm not a trap. You can have them. Poor thing. Prisoners in the Bastille used to make friends with rats. Suppose I make friends with you. How it is that animals understand things I do not know, but it is certain that they do understand. Perhaps there is a language which is not made of words, and everything in the world understands it. Perhaps there is a soul hidden in everything, and it can always speak without even making a sound to another soul. But whatever was the reason, the rat knew from that moment that he was safe. Even though he was a rat, he knew that this young human being sitting on the red footstool would not jump up and terrify him with wild, sharp noises. Or throw heavy objects at him, which, if they did not fall and crush him, would send him limping in his scurry back to his hole. He was really a very nice rat and did not mean the least harm. When he had stood on his hind legs and sniffed the air with his bright eyes fixed on sorrow, he had hoped that she would understand this and would not begin by hating him as an enemy. When the mysterious thing which speaks without saying any words, told him that she would not, he went softly toward the crumbs and began to eat them. And as he did it, he glanced every now and then at Sarah, just as the sparrows had done, and his expression was so very apologetic that it touched her heart. She sat and watched him without making any movement. One crumb was very much larger than the others in fact it could scarcely be called a crumb. It was evident that he wanted that piece very much, but it lay quite near the footstool, and he was still rather timid. I believe he wants to carry it to his family in the wall, Sarah thought. If I do not stir at all, perhaps he will come and get it. She scarcely allowed herself to breathe, she was so deeply interested. The rat shuffled a little nearer and ate a few more crumbs. Then he stopped and sniffed delicately, giving a side glance at the occupant of the footstool. Then he darted at the piece of bun with something very like the sudden boldness of the sparrow, and the instant he had possession of it he fled back to the wall, slipped down a crack in the skirting board, and was gone. I knew he wanted it for his children, said Sarah. I do believe I could make friends with him. A week or so afterward, on one of the rare nights when Ermengarde found it safe to steal up to the attic, when she tapped on the door with the tips of her fingers, Sara did not come to her for two or three minutes. There was indeed such a silence in the room at first that Ermengarde wondered if she could have fallen asleep. Then, to her surprise, she heard her utter a little low laugh and speak coaxingly to someone there. Ermengarde heard her say, take it and go home, Melchizedek. Go home to your wife. Melchizedek is a king and priest in the Bible who blessed Abraham and brought.

B (45:09)

Out bread and wine.

A (45:10)

So Sarah has named the rat Melchizedek because he is bringing food to his family in the wall. Almost immediately Sara opened the door, and when she did so she found Ermengarde standing with alarmed eyes upon the threshold. Whowho are you talking to, Sara? She gasped out. Sara drew her in cautiously, but she looked as if something pleased and amused her. You must promise not to be frightened, not to scream the least bit, or I can't tell you, she answered.

B (45:43)

Ermengarde felt almost inclined to scream on.

A (45:45)

The spot, but managed to control herself. She looked all round the attic and saw no one. And yet Sarah had certainly been speaking to someone. She thought of ghosts. Is it something that will frighten me? She asked timorously. Some people are afraid of them, said Sara. I was at first, but I am not now. Was it a ghost?

B (46:11)

Quaked Ermengarde.

A (46:13)

No, said Sara, laughing. It was my rat. Ermengarde made one bound and landed in the middle of the little dingy bed. She tucked her feet under her nightgown and the red shawl. She did not scream, but she gasped with fright. Oh, oh.

B (46:30)

She cried under her breath.

A (46:32)

A rat. A rat. I was afraid you would be frightened, said Sara. But you needn't be. I am making him tame. He actually knows me and comes out when I call him. Are you too frightened to want to see him? The truth was that as the days had gone on, and with the aid of scraps brought up from the kitchen, her curious friendship had developed. She had gradually forgotten that the timid creature she was becoming familiar with was a mere rat. At first Ermengarde was much too alarmed to do anything but huddle in a heap upon the bed and tuck up her feet. But the sight of Sara's composed little countenance and the story of Melchisedec's first appearance began at last to rouse her curiosity, and she leaned forward over the edge of the bed and watched Sarah go and kneel down by the hole in the skirting board.

B (47:23)

He. He won't run out quickly and jump on the bed, will he?

A (47:27)

She said. No, answered Sara. He's as polite as we are. He is just like a person.

B (47:34)

Now watch.

A (47:36)

She began to make a low whistling sound, so low and coaxing that it could only have been heard in entire stillness. She did it several times, looking entirely absorbed in it. Ermengarde thought she looked as if she were working a spell, and at last, evidently in response to it, a gray, whiskered, bright eyed head peeped out of the hole. Sara had some crumbs in her hand. She dropped them and Melchizedek came quietly forth and ate them. A piece of larger size than the rest he took and carried in the most businesslike manner back to his Home, you see, said Sarah. That is for his wife and children. He is very nice. He only eats the little bits after he goes back. I can always hear his family squeaking for joy. There are three kinds of squeaks. One kind is the children, and one is Mrs. Melchizedek's, and one is Melchizedek's own. Ermengarde began to laugh. Oh, Sara, she said. You are queer, but you are nice. I know I am queer, admitted Sara cheerfully, and I try to be nice. She rubbed her forehead with her little brown paw, and a puzzled, tender look came into her face. Papa always laughed at me, she said, but I liked it. He thought I was queer, but he liked me to make up things. I. I can't help making up things. If I didn't, I don't believe I could live. She paused and glanced around the attic. I'm sure I couldn't live here, she.

B (49:16)

Added in a low voice.

A (49:18)

Ermengarde was interested, as she always was. When you talk about things, she said, they seem as if they grew real.

B (49:27)

You talk about Melchizedek as if he was a person.

A (49:30)

He is a person, said Sara. He gets hungry and frightened, just as we do. And he is married and has children. How do we know he doesn't think things just as we do? His eyes look as if he was a person. That was why I gave him a name. She sat down on the floor in her favorite attitude, holding her knees. Besides, she said, he is a Bastille rat sent to be my friend. I can always get a bit of bread the cook has thrown away, and it is quite enough to support him. Is it the Bastille yet? Asked Ermengarde eagerly. Do you always pretend it is the Bastille? Nearly always, answered Sarah. Sometimes I try to pretend it is another kind of place. But the Bastille is generally easiest, particularly when it is cold. Just at that moment, Ermengarde almost jumped off the bed, she was so startled by a sound she heard. It was like two distinct knocks on the wall.

B (50:31)

What is that?

A (50:32)

She exclaimed. Sarah got up from the floor and answered quite dramatically. It is the prisoner in the next cell. Becky. Cried Ermengarde, enraptured. Yes, said Sara. Listen. The two knocks meant prisoner, are you there? She knocked three times on the wall herself, as if in answer. That means, yes, I am here and all is well. Four knocks came from Becky's side of the wall. That means, explained Sarah. Then, fellow sufferer, we will sleep in peace. Good night. Ermengarde quite beamed with delight. Oh, Sara, she whispered joyfully. It is like a story. It is a story, said Sara. Everything's a story. You are a story. I am a story. Ms. Minchin is a story. And she sat down again and talked until Ermengarde forgot that she was a sort of escaped prisoner herself and had to be reminded by Sarah that she could not remain in the Bastille all night, but must steal noiselessly downstairs again and creep back into her deserted bed. Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to check out my novel Christmas Carol. That's Carol with a K. Using the link in the Show Notes I would be so grateful if you would consider buying a copy or a few copies.

B (52:07)

For yourself or as a gift.

A (52:09)

If you buy a copy of the book and email me a screenshot of your receipt, you'll be entered into a drawing to receive your choice of either your money back or an additional signed copy. The email to send the receipt to is in the Show Notes. If you buy multiple copies, you can enter the drawing multiple times. The winner will be notified by email. Also, everyone who buys a copy of the book is entitled to a free signed bookplate which you can stick into the book to make it a signed copy. If you'd like one, just email the screenshot of your receipt to the email address listed in the Show Notes and let me know whom you'd like the book plate made out to and what address to mail it to. Thank you so much for supporting me and the work I do by buying my book this Christmas time. And of course, don't forget to get in touch with comments or questions about this episode. Please go to my website, faithkmoore.com click on contact and send me your questions and thoughts. Or you can click on the link in the Show Notes to contact me. I'll feature one or two of your entries at the start of the next episode.

B (53:15)

Alright everyone, story time is over.

A (53:19)

To be continued.