Summer Session: Greek Mythology with Spencer Klavan - Storytime for Grownups

Transcript

Faith Moore (0:00)

Hello and welcome to Storytime for Grown Ups. I'm Faith Moore and this is Summer Session. Normally on Storytime for Grown Ups we read classic literature a few chapters at a time with a few notes along the way. Like an audiobook with built in notes. But during the summer we switch things up a little. From now until September, we will be in Summer Session, which is sort of like a college class, only fun. This summer we're exploring fairy tales and their relationship to the books we've read this year on storytime and storytelling more broadly. We'll do this in once a week episodes which will drop on Mondays. If this doesn't sound like your thing, don't worry. Storytime will be back with a new book in September, but for now, brew a pot of tea, find a cozy chair and settle in. Class is in session.

Spencer Clavin (1:07)

Hi everyone. Welcome back. So like I said last week, I am away at the moment and I have an interview for you today. I'm really excited about it. I hope that you're going to enjoy it. But it means that all of your amazing comments and questions about Sleeping Beauty are going to be on hold until next week. But please do keep those coming. I'm getting your comments and questions, you're getting your emails and I love them. I'm thrilled and I'm really excited to talk to you about Sleeping Beauty next week. So keep those coming. Remember, it's Faith K. Moore.com and click on Contact or just scroll into the show notes and click on that link. And after today's interview, if you have other things that you want to say, I hope that you will. I hope you will ask questions and send me comments about the interview as well and we can talk about all of that when I am back next week. I'll actually be back before next week. I'm just not here right now, but this week, this Wednesday. So two days from today on the 30th of July at 8pm Eastern is tea time and I will be back for that. So I hope that you're planning to join us for tea time. If you don't know what I'm talking about, scroll into the show notes and click the link that has to do with our online community which is called the Drawing Room and you will learn more there. But basically it is a voice teacher chat, like a group phone call where we get to talk to each other. We're going to be talking about the fairy tales that we've read so far. You can ask me anything. So I answer questions there. People are posting in the drawing room, what questions they want to ask. But you can also just come prepared with questions to ask. And we will talk about all of the things that we've been talking about here, but you will get to share your thoughts in real time with me and I will respond. So I hope you will join us. It's not too late to join to sign up for the drawing room, so just scroll into the show notes and click on the link there. And I hope to hear some new voices in our Tea Time chat this month, which, as I say, is this week, Wednesday, July 30, 8pm Eastern. I hope to see you there. All right, so let me introduce our guest. Today's guest is my brother, Spencer Clavin. So earlier in the summer we had my dad, Andrew Clavin. We talked about the book the Women in White, and that episode is still there. If you missed it, you can just scroll down in your podcast feed and find that. But now we are having my brother, Spencer Clavin on the show and he is here to talk to us about Greek mythology. So we're going to be talking in this interview about the connections between fairy tales and the stories that we've been talking about so far this summer, and the stories that we will continue to talk about all the rest of the summer and their connection to basically other oral traditions of storytelling, other folklore, other stories that get passed to down. And Greek mythology is another huge one, and it's another one of these building blocks, right?

Summary

Storytime for Grownups: Summer Session – Greek Mythology with Spencer Clavin

Episode Release Date: July 28, 2025

Introduction to Summer Session

In this special summer edition of Storytime for Grownups, host Faith Moore transitions the podcast into "Summer Session," a series akin to a fun college class. This season focuses on exploring fairy tales and their interconnections with various storytelling traditions, including Greek mythology.

Guest Introduction: Spencer Clavin

Faith introduces her guest, Spencer Clavin, her brother, who serves as the Publications Director at the Claremont Institute and hosts the Young Heretics podcast. Spencer is also the author of two insightful books: How to Save the Ancient Wisdom for Five Modern Crises and Light of the Mind, Light of the World: Illuminating Science Through Faith. Additionally, he co-manages a Substack titled The New Jerusalem, a collaborative platform with Faith’s father, Andrew Clavin, where they delve into discussions about faith, technology, and culture.

Exploring Greek Mythology

Spencer begins the conversation by outlining Greek mythology's foundational role in Western literature, positioning it alongside fairy tales as essential pillars of storytelling. He emphasizes that both myths and fairy tales are integral to understanding the broader tapestry of oral traditions and folklore.

"Greek myths are another building block for stories in general, particularly here in the West. There's a lot of connections between myths and fairy tales." [08:54]

Origins and Evolution of Greek Myths

The discussion delves into the origins of Greek mythology, tracing it back to the Archaic period (circa 8th century B.C.) and highlighting the contributions of poets like Homer, whose epics The Iliad and The Odyssey are seminal texts. Spencer explains how these myths were not static but evolved through various interpretations and regional variations, much like fairy tales collected by the Brothers Grimm.

"You can tell the same sort of thing. We have to imagine that before our curtain rises, before the tape starts rolling for us in history, there was a vast space of unrecorded generations of people telling these stories again and again." [11:03]

Myths vs. Fairy Tales: Belief Systems

A significant portion of the conversation contrasts the belief systems underpinning Greek myths and fairy tales. While fairy tales are often seen as symbolic narratives with clear moral lessons, Greek myths were deeply intertwined with religious practices and were often believed to be literal truths by the ancient Greeks.

"Confusingly, the answer is yes to basically every question you just asked." [16:26]

Spencer clarifies that unlike fairy tales, which are generally not objects of worship, Greek myths involved active religious belief, with temples and rituals dedicated to gods like Zeus and Demeter.

"There are temples to Zeus, temples to Demeter, we pray to Demeter for our harvest, that kind of thing." [23:18]

Gender Roles in Myths and Fairy Tales

The discussion moves to the portrayal of gender in myths versus fairy tales. Spencer posits that fairy tales tend to be more girl-centric, focusing on princesses and their journeys, whereas Greek myths emphasize male heroes and their epic quests. He explores how this reflects broader societal values and gender dynamics in ancient cultures.

"I tend to think of fairy tales as more kind of girl centric and then mythology, like particularly Greek myths... as sort of the male counterpart." [23:33]

Complexity and Moral Ambiguity in Greek Myths

Spencer highlights the inherent moral ambiguity and complexity in Greek myths, contrasting them with the often clear-cut resolutions found in fairy tales. Greek myths frequently present morally flawed characters and unresolved endings, mirroring the complexities of real-life human experiences.

"In Greek mythology, things kind of turn out wrong or at least things are really complicated and very, very messy." [38:29]

Philosophical Implications and Western Thought

The conversation touches upon how Greek mythology has influenced Western philosophical thought, particularly through concepts like the Logos and the exploration of reason versus revelation. Spencer discusses how ancient Greek philosophers grappled with the nature of the divine and the moral order of the universe, laying the groundwork for later theological and philosophical developments.

"The Greeks... are known for... natural reason." [46:18]

Recommendations for Exploring Greek Myths

Towards the end of the episode, Spencer offers recommendations for adults interested in delving deeper into Greek mythology. He suggests starting with accessible translations like Ovid's Metamorphoses and highlights modern adaptations such as Stephen Fry's Mythos and the popular Percy Jackson series for those seeking engaging retellings.

"The gold standard is probably Ovid's Metamorphoses." [53:25]

Notable Quotes

Spencer Clavin [08:54]: "Greek myths are another building block for stories in general, particularly here in the West. There's a lot of connections between myths and fairy tales."
Spencer Clavin [16:26]: "Confusingly, the answer is yes to basically every question you just asked."
Spencer Clavin [23:33]: "I tend to think of fairy tales as more kind of girl centric and then mythology, like particularly Greek myths... as sort of the male counterpart."
Spencer Clavin [38:29]: "In Greek mythology, things kind of turn out wrong or at least things are really complicated and very, very messy."
Spencer Clavin [46:18]: "The Greeks... are known for... natural reason."
Spencer Clavin [53:25]: "The gold standard is probably Ovid's Metamorphoses."

Conclusion

The episode provides a rich exploration of Greek mythology's role in shaping Western storytelling traditions, highlighting its complexities and philosophical underpinnings. Spencer Clavin's insights bridge the ancient narratives with contemporary interpretations, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of how these foundational myths continue to influence modern literature and thought.

For those eager to delve deeper, Spencer's recommendations serve as valuable guides to both classic and modern renditions of Greek myths. As the Summer Session continues, listeners can look forward to more engaging discussions that unravel the intricate connections between timeless stories and their enduring legacies.

Further Resources:

Spencer Clavin's Substack: rejoice.evermore.substack.com
Books by Spencer Clavin:
- How to Save the Ancient Wisdom for Five Modern Crises
- Light of the Mind, Light of the World: Illuminating Science Through Faith
Podcast: Young Heretics hosted by Spencer Clavin