Storytime for Grownups: Summer Session – Greek Mythology with Spencer Clavin

Episode Release Date: July 28, 2025

Introduction to Summer Session

In this special summer edition of Storytime for Grownups, host Faith Moore transitions the podcast into "Summer Session," a series akin to a fun college class. This season focuses on exploring fairy tales and their interconnections with various storytelling traditions, including Greek mythology.

Guest Introduction: Spencer Clavin

Faith introduces her guest, Spencer Clavin, her brother, who serves as the Publications Director at the Claremont Institute and hosts the Young Heretics podcast. Spencer is also the author of two insightful books: How to Save the Ancient Wisdom for Five Modern Crises and Light of the Mind, Light of the World: Illuminating Science Through Faith. Additionally, he co-manages a Substack titled The New Jerusalem, a collaborative platform with Faith’s father, Andrew Clavin, where they delve into discussions about faith, technology, and culture.

Exploring Greek Mythology

Spencer begins the conversation by outlining Greek mythology's foundational role in Western literature, positioning it alongside fairy tales as essential pillars of storytelling. He emphasizes that both myths and fairy tales are integral to understanding the broader tapestry of oral traditions and folklore.

"Greek myths are another building block for stories in general, particularly here in the West. There's a lot of connections between myths and fairy tales." [08:54]

Origins and Evolution of Greek Myths

The discussion delves into the origins of Greek mythology, tracing it back to the Archaic period (circa 8th century B.C.) and highlighting the contributions of poets like Homer, whose epics The Iliad and The Odyssey are seminal texts. Spencer explains how these myths were not static but evolved through various interpretations and regional variations, much like fairy tales collected by the Brothers Grimm.

"You can tell the same sort of thing. We have to imagine that before our curtain rises, before the tape starts rolling for us in history, there was a vast space of unrecorded generations of people telling these stories again and again." [11:03]

Myths vs. Fairy Tales: Belief Systems

A significant portion of the conversation contrasts the belief systems underpinning Greek myths and fairy tales. While fairy tales are often seen as symbolic narratives with clear moral lessons, Greek myths were deeply intertwined with religious practices and were often believed to be literal truths by the ancient Greeks.

"Confusingly, the answer is yes to basically every question you just asked." [16:26]

Spencer clarifies that unlike fairy tales, which are generally not objects of worship, Greek myths involved active religious belief, with temples and rituals dedicated to gods like Zeus and Demeter.

"There are temples to Zeus, temples to Demeter, we pray to Demeter for our harvest, that kind of thing." [23:18]

Gender Roles in Myths and Fairy Tales

The discussion moves to the portrayal of gender in myths versus fairy tales. Spencer posits that fairy tales tend to be more girl-centric, focusing on princesses and their journeys, whereas Greek myths emphasize male heroes and their epic quests. He explores how this reflects broader societal values and gender dynamics in ancient cultures.

"I tend to think of fairy tales as more kind of girl centric and then mythology, like particularly Greek myths... as sort of the male counterpart." [23:33]

Complexity and Moral Ambiguity in Greek Myths

Spencer highlights the inherent moral ambiguity and complexity in Greek myths, contrasting them with the often clear-cut resolutions found in fairy tales. Greek myths frequently present morally flawed characters and unresolved endings, mirroring the complexities of real-life human experiences.

"In Greek mythology, things kind of turn out wrong or at least things are really complicated and very, very messy." [38:29]

Philosophical Implications and Western Thought

The conversation touches upon how Greek mythology has influenced Western philosophical thought, particularly through concepts like the Logos and the exploration of reason versus revelation. Spencer discusses how ancient Greek philosophers grappled with the nature of the divine and the moral order of the universe, laying the groundwork for later theological and philosophical developments.

"The Greeks... are known for... natural reason." [46:18]

Recommendations for Exploring Greek Myths

Towards the end of the episode, Spencer offers recommendations for adults interested in delving deeper into Greek mythology. He suggests starting with accessible translations like Ovid's Metamorphoses and highlights modern adaptations such as Stephen Fry's Mythos and the popular Percy Jackson series for those seeking engaging retellings.

"The gold standard is probably Ovid's Metamorphoses." [53:25]

Notable Quotes

• Spencer Clavin [08:54]: "Greek myths are another building block for stories in general, particularly here in the West. There's a lot of connections between myths and fairy tales."

• Spencer Clavin [16:26]: "Confusingly, the answer is yes to basically every question you just asked."

• Spencer Clavin [23:33]: "I tend to think of fairy tales as more kind of girl centric and then mythology, like particularly Greek myths... as sort of the male counterpart."

• Spencer Clavin [38:29]: "In Greek mythology, things kind of turn out wrong or at least things are really complicated and very, very messy."

• Spencer Clavin [46:18]: "The Greeks... are known for... natural reason."

• Spencer Clavin [53:25]: "The gold standard is probably Ovid's Metamorphoses."

Conclusion

The episode provides a rich exploration of Greek mythology's role in shaping Western storytelling traditions, highlighting its complexities and philosophical underpinnings. Spencer Clavin's insights bridge the ancient narratives with contemporary interpretations, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of how these foundational myths continue to influence modern literature and thought.

For those eager to delve deeper, Spencer's recommendations serve as valuable guides to both classic and modern renditions of Greek myths. As the Summer Session continues, listeners can look forward to more engaging discussions that unravel the intricate connections between timeless stories and their enduring legacies.

Further Resources:

• Spencer Clavin's Substack: rejoice.evermore.substack.com
• Books by Spencer Clavin:
  • How to Save the Ancient Wisdom for Five Modern Crises
  • Light of the Mind, Light of the World: Illuminating Science Through Faith
• Podcast: Young Heretics hosted by Spencer Clavin