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Summer Session: Pride and Prejudice as a Cinderella Narrative with Brigid Huey
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- [00:00]
Faith Moore
Hello and welcome to Storytime for Grown Ups. I'm Faith Moore and this is Summer Session. Normally on Storytime for Grown Ups we read classic literature a few chapters at a time with a few notes along the way. Like an audiobook with built in notes. But during the summer we switch things up a little. From now until September, we will be in Summer Session, which is sort of like a college class, only fun. This summer we're exploring fairy tales and their relationship to the books we've read this year on storytime and storytelling more broadly. We'll do this in once a week episodes which will drop on Mondays. If this doesn't sound like your thing, don't worry. Storytime will be back with a new book in September. But for now, brew a pot of tea, find a cozy chair and settle in. Class is in session. Hi everyone. Welcome back. I'm so happy to be with you again. I really don't like this once a week thing. I know it's necessary. I certainly wouldn't have the time to create two episodes a week. But I miss talking to you twice a week week. But let's stay in the present. Let's be here in the present moment. We are here together now and I am so glad to be here with you. We have an interview today. We're going to do an interview today. I'm really excited about it. This is a great conversation and it is perfect. It ties right in with what we've been talking about so far. So I'm really excited to share that with you. Before we do that, I have a couple of things to tell you. One is that this past week I was on someone else's podcast being interviewed, a podcast called Tune My Heart. It's a a show about cartoons, animated movies through a Christian lens. And this episode was one of the episodes that they do on this show about a song from an animated movie. And I picked so this is Love from Cinderella. So this all ties together very well, very perfectly for what we've been talking about here on this show. So if you are interested in listening to me talk about that on that show, you can just scroll into the show notes and there's a link there to that conversation. It was really fun. We lot of stuff. I know a song is a very specific topic, but we covered a lot of the things that we are talking about here in terms of Cinderella and the symbolism of Cinderella and what it all means. But we were talking about Disney. So for those of you who are interested in the Disney movies that are based on these fairy Tales. This is a great conversation to listen to. And since it is mentioned in the that interview that I'm talking about now that is linked in the show notes, I will just mention that I do have a book about Disney Princess movies and the symbolism that underlies the fairy tales that those movies are based on. It's called Saving what Feminists Get Wrong About Disney Princesses and How to Set It Right. I wrote it Long long way back in the mists of 2018. And you know, it's not exactly the topic that we're talking about here, so I am not going to keep plugging it on the show or anything. But I do mention it. That is kind of the focal point of that conversation that I had on Toon My Heart. So I did want to mention it here. It exists. It goes through the I think it's 12 Disney princess movies and talks about the ways that modern film critics have kind of gotten these movies wrong. And then I lay out a lot of the symbolism that we're going to be talking about here on this show, but I'm talking about the Disney versions rather than the original version. So I will link to the book also in the show notes of this episode so you can scroll down and find it there. You can check it out and pick up a copy if this is a topic that interests you. But again, I'm not going to go on and on and plug it every episode or anything like that because yes, it's a related topic, but it's not what we're talking about this summer. This summer we're talking about the original stories and not the Disney stories. But since I was mentioning that other podcast, I thought I would mentioned the book links to both the interview on Tune My Heart and the book Saving Cinderella are in the show notes today. Okay, the other thing I wanted to mention is that Tea time, our June tea time is tomorrow, Tuesday, June 24th. It's at 8pm Eastern. And in order to join in, you have to be a Landed Gentry, a member of the Landed Gentry membership tier over in the drawing room, which is our online community here at Storytime for Grown ups. There's still time if you'd like to join us. Tea Time is a voice chat. It's a time when you guys and I get together and we just talk. It's kind of like a group phone call. You can hear me, I can hear you. If you choose, you don't have to participate. So don't be freaked out if you want to listen, but you don't want to talk you can just listen or you can join in the conversation. And it's very informal. We talk about a lot of things. You can ask me anything. I take questions. We're also going to talk this time about Cinderella and fairy tales more broadly, but we also just talk about books and life and it's a great time and I'm always so happy to be there. The hour flies by, so if you would like to join us and you're not yet a member of the Landed Gentry membership tier, then just again, scroll down. There's amazing links in this show notes today, so scroll down into the show notes and click on that link. It doesn't automatically sign you up or anything, it just gives you some more information and it tells you how to sign up if you are interested. So I hope that you will join us whether you're already signed up or if you're planning to sign up. I hope that you'll join us tomorrow, Tuesday, June 24th at 8pm Eastern. I'm looking forward to talking to you, whoever decides to show up. I'm looking forward to having that conversation. Okay, so as I say, we're going to have an interview today and I'm going to talk more about that in just a moment. But I do have a couple of comments that I got based on last week's episode that I would like to read and just comment on very, very briefly. This is going to be a short intro because I want to get into our interview for today, but I'm going to read. I think it is. Yes, it's so three questions. So I'm going to read three questions. The first is a bit long, but I think it's really interesting. So I included it in its entirety. So I'm going to read those. I'm going to talk for a little bit and then I'm going to tell you about who our interviewee is today and then we'll get into the interview. And of course, just the last reminder is, as always, please, if you're enjoying the show, tap the five stars. Please leave a positive review. If you can tell a friend, text a link to the show to somebody. Scroll into the show notes and check out all the other links. Today there's a million links and they're all great. So check out all the links. And today, but there's the Merch store. You can pick up some merchandise, you can make a donation to the show and of course you can get in touch with me, which is faithkmore.com and click on Contact or there's a link in the show notes as well. So please do what you can to support the show if you're able okay, let's get into these questions. The first one comes from Alan Robison. He writes, what strikes me when you read the three versions of Cinderella is how elements of this fairy tale echo elements of biblical stories. For instance, in the Italian version where Cinderella's dad forgets her and the ship is cursed from leaving port, the ship was doomed because of the failure of her father of remembering her. This reminded me of Jonah, who defiantly sailed west when God instructed him to go east to Nineveh. Both Jonah and Cinderella's dad had to fix their sins before the ship was released. The other instance of a biblical echo had to do with when the prince's men were confronted with nobody fitting the slipper. When asked, the stepmother said, well, there is one more daughter in the family, but she's not worthy of even trying on the slipper. To me, this reminded me of 1 Samuel 16 when God sent Samuel to find the next king of Israel. Jesse showed all his sons to Samuel, leaving out David. Samuel had to ask, don't you have another son? I would have to think that the folktale tradition borrowed from biblical elements in the telling and retelling of these fairy tales. The next one comes from Debbie Rudin. She writes, I am really enjoying listening to your podcast and especially to the versions of Cinderella. I wanted to say that in the first story, when Cinderella asks her father for a small but important thing and not an expensive trifle, it reminds me of Beauty and the Beast, probably my favorite fairy tale. Okay, and the last one comes from Tracy Shubin. She writes, I am so enjoying this summer session. I was a homeschool mom that did not spend much time in the fairy tales, but neither was I opposed to them. My daughter, however, came to love them and especially Cinderella. I am beginning to see why Wives and Daughters by Elizabeth Gaskell is such a favorite of my daughter and I and my husband, I might add. It is Cinderella, but she has taken the stepmother and stepsister and made them real and relatable. I am looking forward to your discussion of other modern Cinderella stories as well as all you have planned for this summer. Okay, so I always love getting your letters, but the cool thing about the letters that I'm getting right now, now that we have started to actually read some of these stories, is that the thing that I've been going on and on about, right? The fact that fairy tales are one of the essential building blocks for stories, that thing is starting to become very clear, just by sort of virtue of listening to these stories. It's almost impossible, I think, not to start to think of other stories and other places where the themes and motif, plot points and things that you hear in fairy tales are showing up. And that's because these fairy tales are part of the bedrock of storytelling. Even if you have never read a single fairy tale, if you're going to write a novel, let's just say, and you tell me the plot of it, I bet that I can find something that at least touches on a theme or idea or a plot point or something like that from a fairy tale. And as Alan points out in his letter, the tale.
- [10:06]
Bridget Huey
Fairy.
- [10:06]
Faith Moore
Fairy tales themselves are influenced by the stories around them, like Bible stories, which are themselves a huge building block of storytelling. You know, as we've discussed, the original oral versions of these fairy tales were, in some cases, like thousands of years old. And so they may have had pagan roots, but as they got passed down and as the world in which they were being told became a Christian world, they picked up Christian elements and biblical elements and things like that. And of course, the writers whose versions were reading, like Perrault and Basile and the Brothers Grimm, they were Christians themselves, and they were infusing the stories with their own worldview, and they would have been very familiar with the Bible and the stories that are found there. So fairy tales become, then, a kind of mashup of the older, potentially pagan ideas and the newer Christian ideas, which, again, is why they are so fundamental and so important to storytelling in general. And as Debbie points out, it's. Even fairy tales are drawing from other fairy tales. Right? Beauty and the Beast is an original fairy tale, meaning it didn't come down through the oral tradition. It was written by a French woman named Gabrielle Suzanne Barbeau de villeneuve in the mid-1700s. And it, of course, uses tropes that are found in other fairy tales, but it creates a new narrative out of them. And as Debbie says, one of the tropes that is used in that original version by Villeneuve is the trope that we saw in a couple of the Cinderella versions that we read last week. This trope of the daughter asking the father for a trifle when the other siblings have asked for riches. Right? We see that in Beauty and the Beast, when Beauty asks her father for a rose rather than for a pretty dress or jewels, the way that her sisters are asking. And that trifle is, in fact, the catalyst for the whole story, both in Beauty and the Beast and in Cinderella, you know, we're going to talk much more about Beauty and the Beast and stories like that later in the summer. But that's a great catch, and it's exactly the kind of thing that we've been talking about over summer so far. And of course, as Tracy points out, the Cinderella narrative, the sort of broad strokes of like a poor girl with a somewhat negligent or hapless father who has to make her way in the world, usually via love. Right. That narrative is absolutely everywhere. There are millions of modern retellings of Cinderella, but there's also a million stories that just kind of use Cinderella as a framework to like, hang their narratives on. And actually, that is what we're going to talk about today, or rather, we're going about one specific story, a story that is probably very familiar to you, especially if you've been listening to this show for a while. We're going to talk about a story that is very much a descendant of the Cinderella fairy tale, and that story is Pride and Prejudice. Okay. So to talk about this, I'm going to bring on a guest. This is what I said. We're going to have an interview today. So I've known all along that I wanted to talk about this topic, about Pride and Prejudice as a Cinderella narrative. I knew all along, right when I decided that we were going to do fairy tales this summer, and I wanted to have someone on to talk about it. So I went online and I searched for someone and I found the perfect person, you guys, I really did. I found the perfect person. Her name is Bridget Huey. She's a novelist who writes romance across various genres, including historical, science fiction and fantasy. But many of her books are what is called Pride and Prejudice and Variations. And we're going to get into what that means in the interview. She lives in Ohio with her husband and her two children, and she has studied and written about fairy tales and specifically Pride and Prejudice's connection to Cinderella. So I'm going to share this interview with you now. It was really fun and incredibly relevant to what we've been talking about so far and a great example of a book that we've read on Storytime this year using these fairy tale building blocks that we're talking about. I will say that if you have just joined us or you skipped Pride and Prejudice and you've never read it, and this interview does contain spoilers, so do with that what you will. But also, if you did skip Pride and Prejudice, don't forget that it's still there. It's waiting for you. If you're interested. All the books that we've read on the show, starting all the way back with Jane Eyre, all of them are available. You just have to scroll down to the bottom of your podcast feed to access the first episode. Or if you scroll into the show notes and click on the Storytime for Grown Ups page link, then you'll find Spotify playlists for each book which were put together by a wonderful listener named a.m. burke. And those are a really easy way to listen to specific book if that's what you're interested in. There are also links in the show notes of today's episode to learn more about our guest, Bridget Huey and to check out her various books. So we're going to spend this one more episode talking about Cinderella, and then next week we will move on to other ideas and other fairy tales. So please do write to me and let me know what you think of this interview and what thoughts and questions come up for you while you're listening. And I hope to see many of you or hear many of you tomorrow at tea time. All right, here is our interview with Brigid Huey, all about Pride and Prejudice as it relates to Cinderella. Hi, Bridget. Welcome to Storytime for Grown Ups. Thank you so much for being here.
- [15:22]
Bridget Huey
Thank you for having me.
- [15:24]
Faith Moore
Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm really excited to talk to you. So what I want to talk to you about ultimately today is Pride and Prejudice as it kind of relates to Cinderella. But I want to back up first a little bit and just talk about you and your experience with this book that is so beloved and has become such a phenomenon even here in 2025. So what is it? Let's just be broad. Let's start broad. What is it about this book, Pride and Prejudice, that that captivates you specifically? What do you love about it? Mm.
- [16:00]
Bridget Huey
Well, first I would say it's a love story, and I adore love stories. But I really think that it's the characters, the way Jane Austen develops the characters. They are meaty characters. They're well rounded. They have, you know, faults and they have, you know, things they're, they're working through just like we all do. So I think we really identify with the characters because they just are really, they come alive on the page. They feel like real humans. They feel like people you would be friends with. And I think the dynamic between Lizzie and Darcy is so just iconic and long lasting because of that, that depth of character that she's created for them.
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Faith Moore
It is funny, isn't it, that way, that it's a book from such a long time ago. But we can. We can relate to them in so many ways. Right? Like, we can. We can relate to this love story. And yes, I'm. I'm a sucker for a love story if it's. It's got to have one, otherwise I'm not interested. But, but even, but, you know, like the parents, right. Mr. And Mrs. Bennet or, or even, you know, Charlotte Lucas or any these people. You can think about people in your own life who are going through similar things, who, you know, have similar quirks and personality traits. And it's really kind of an amazing thing.
- [17:36]
Bridget Huey
I think that she would say, absolutely, absolutely. And I. I love that about reading the classics, but specifically Jane Austen, that her characters are just. I think timeless is kind of an overused word. But it doesn't matter that these characters were created hundreds of years ago. You can, you know, like I think about Charlotte Lucas. Do we have the same exact problems that she does? No. You know, we are not. You know, a modern woman is not going to be a burden to her parents in the same way that she was. But that same feeling of, you know, you're in your 20s, you're getting older, you're not sure what direction your life is taking, and you just feel trapped in a situation. And I think everyone at some point in their lives has felt that. That sense of helplessness and that confusion over what is the right choice, what do I do? So.
- [18:39]
Faith Moore
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. And. And to make a practical choice in a moment when someone else would make a romantic choice, I think that's. That's really valid and relevant too. Right. To sort of that question of, okay, I'm. I'm getting older, you know, do I marry this guy and. And have some kids and have this life, or do I wait around for Mr. Right? What. What do I do? And I think we can relate to that. Even as you say, we're not. Hopefully we're not looking at the, you know, we're not facing being burdens to our families if we don't marry, but, you know, is still relevant. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's right. And I completely agree with you. It is. It's the characters that. That just leap off the page, and that's what is so captivating for people. When. When did you first read this book? Do you remember. Do you remember the moment? And, you know, was it love at. At first read or, you know, did it take a couple of times? What was that like for you?
- [19:36]
Bridget Huey
Well, you know, in preparing for this Interview. I was trying to remember the first time I actually read it. And I don't remember. Like, I.
- [19:50]
Faith Moore
Part of your soul, right?
- [19:52]
Bridget Huey
Like. But I will say. So I'm going to shift a little bit. I do remember when I was first introduced to this story and it was the original miniseries with Colin Vernon. And my parents were like, oh, this in this miniseries is going to be on A and E, which was a channel back then. And we all sat down to watch it, like, every. Every time it was on as a family. And I was just captivated by it. The story, the costumes, all of it. I loved it. And I think I tried reading it. I know that by late high school or early college, I had read it because I actually took a. I took a course in college called Fairy Tales and Literature, and it was.
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Faith Moore
This is perfect.
- [20:46]
Bridget Huey
I know. I thought about this. This is amazing. I did my senior thesis on Cinderella in Jane Austen's works.
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Faith Moore
No way. Okay, we're gonna get there. We're gonna get to that. Okay.
- [20:59]
Bridget Huey
Yeah.
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Faith Moore
I didn't even know that I had you on here. I didn't even know that. Ok.
- [21:03]
Bridget Huey
So I definitely. I know, like, that was probably the first time I read it in an academic sense, but I had read it before that just for enjoyment. And it's kind of one of those annual reads for me where I just, you know, about once a year, I'm like, yeah, time to read it again. It just never gets. I don't get tired of it.
- [21:26]
Faith Moore
So, yeah, it's funny. Okay, so I'm now thinking two things. One is, I think a lot of people come to this book via some kind of film adaptation. I know a lot of listeners here on Storytime. That's how they came to it. And then when we read it together on the show, there was a lot of, you know, really interesting observations about the way that the books and the book and the shows are different. But that made me want to ask you your thoughts on the 2005 Keira Knightley version. Have you seen that one? Because I think people are one or the other, and it sounds like you are Colin Firth, but I'm wondering about the other one.
- [22:09]
Bridget Huey
So I have mixed feelings about the 2005 version. I did enjoy it when it came out, and I. You know, it's kind of like any bit of Austin I will take, but I did struggle with some of the changes that they made with the story and the film. I struggled with things like costume choice and the dynamics of the time period. I think were really relaxed. So it was kind of, like, I liked. Felt like a variation to me. I liked it, but it didn't feel like the true Pride and Prejudice. It was just like a take on it.
- [22:59]
Faith Moore
Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I always tell people, when they ask me which one, I say, well, the Colin Firth is the one that is truest to the book. And that one feels like the book on screen and 2005 is kind of like, in order to enjoy it, you have to kind of put the book aside and you have to just watch it as its own entity. And then it's kind of fun, and it's romantic, and it's very kind of, oh, the moors. And he's walking with his coat flapping.
- [23:24]
Bridget Huey
Right. It's a beautiful movie, visually, and the music is amazing. And, you know, so you enjoy those bits.
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Faith Moore
Exactly. And the other thing that. That made me think of is. So another book that. That we have read on this show is. Is Jane Eyre. And I always say that people are Jane Eyre people or Pride and Prejudice people. And I wondered if that holds true for you as well.
- [23:51]
Bridget Huey
It does. It totally does. Yeah. I am a Pride and Prejudice person. I am. I'm gonna confess something that is just terrible. I've never read all the way through. I've never read Jane Eyre all the way through.
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Faith Moore
That's not terrible at all. This is a show for people who, like, struggle with classic books. So there's a lot of us out there.
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Bridget Huey
Yes.
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Faith Moore
But I'm a Jane Eyre person, so this is fantastic, because I'm a Jane Eyre person. And it was. I had read Pride and Prejudice a couple of times, and then I read it on this show, and it was only then that I kind of was like, okay, I'm still a Jane Eyre person, but I get it now. Like, I get. I fell in love with Darcy. I understood what was going on there. Yeah. So.
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Bridget Huey
But.
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Faith Moore
But yeah, I. I actually think it's something someone should do, like a study about this. I actually think it's, like, psychologically true that you can't be both. Like, you're. You're one or the other.
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Bridget Huey
Right.
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Faith Moore
And so it makes sense if you love Pride and Prejudice, makes sense that you didn't make it all the way through.
- [24:48]
Bridget Huey
Yes. I think, for me, it's about, like, the overall tone and feeling of the books. Pride and Prejudice, I think, is just a bit happier. She deals with. She deals with, you know, deeper issues, but it's just in a way that you're like. You're not kind of left like, oh, geez, that's a lot to deal with in this chapter. You know, it just.
- [25:15]
Faith Moore
Yeah, 100%. I actually think that's kind of why, like, I think. I think for some people, they want that. Yeah. That kind of bright, sparkling, kind of Austin of it all. And then others are.
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Bridget Huey
We're.
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Faith Moore
The. The rest of us are sort of more emo. Like, we. We want the dark, brooding man. And I kind of think actually that the 2005 movie of Pride and Prejudice tried to make Darcy more Rochester. Like, I. I felt like they tried to make him more kind of broody and tortured and, you know, and, yes, the misty moors and all of that. Like, that's much more Bronte than it is.
- [25:49]
Bridget Huey
That is true. Yes. I never thought about it, but I totally agree.
- [25:53]
Faith Moore
Yeah. So I think that's. That's partly what they were going for there and also why they kind of didn't get it at all in that version. So I think. You know, I was going to ask you what's the secret of this book's appeal, But I think we've already kind of discussed that. This. The love and the characters. But there's another piece here which I think you touched on when you were talking about the movie and how it doesn't quite capture the time period. Well, like, the costumes are all wrong and they're. You just. Your word was relaxed, which I think is right. They've relaxed the very intricate and important to the plot social customs of Jane Austen's world. And I'm thinking, you know, Jane Austen has basically, is basically the inventor of our concept of Regency England. Right. Because I think there was a lot going on in Regency England that is not captured in Jane Austen, but we as modern people, modern readers, and just living in the modern world. That's our concept of Regency England, when we think about that. And it's incredibly appealing to people. All of that. That stuff that isn't relaxed. All of those. The dresses and the. And the teas and the chaperones and the balls and, you know, yes, you can talk to this man over here, but not over there. And, you know, all of that. And what do you think is so captivating about that for us? I mean, here we are in 2025, where kind of all bets are off in that department. And we might feel like that's fine or not fine, but we are still. Whatever we feel about that, we are still really captivated by the bonnets and the top hats of it all. So what do you think it is about that version of this time period that's so Appealing to us?
- [27:44]
Bridget Huey
Yeah, I think. I mean.
- [27:51]
Faith Moore
I think there's.
- [27:52]
Bridget Huey
There's multiple. There's multiple ways to answer this. Well, kind of. I think there's multiple parts to it. One is to go back to the idea of a fairy tale and that, you know, this version of Regency England really does feel like a Cinderella story where you are getting. You're getting the good bits. And although Austen does bring in the negative sides of societal pressure and family pressure and those norms and mores that were accepted at the time and how they. They shape sometimes. But we don't get. Obviously, she would never have written about, you know, things like running water and, you know, like, what do you do at a ball when you have to go to the bathroom? Like, all those things are just. No, no, no, we don't think about that.
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Faith Moore
Yeah.
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Bridget Huey
And the more difficult conversations that come when you. When you do look at history where, you know, Hill is a character in the book, and we don't examine at all what her life is, what her life is like, and how it compares to the Bennett. All of that we're given a pass on. So I think that is one way that, you know, this. This Regency era really appeals to us because we get the fairytale element of the pretty dresses and the handsome man without the realities that are still, you know, they different. Different challenges now than then. But it allows us to enter this world where challenges aren't really talked about in that way, and we kind of can just let them go. I also think that there is a nostalgic yearning for a time when things were a little bit more structured. Sometimes the anything goes kind of way of our modern world has its own pitfalls and struggles. And especially, you know, if you. If you are a person that struggles with. Maybe you're an introverted person. You know, I feel like Regency era was nicer to you because there were just, like, ways of interacting with people, and you weren't expected to be, you know, big and bubbly all the time. Yeah, I. I do think it's. It's a romanticized notion, and I think that's why we love it, because it does give us that almost fantasy, like, ideal window into the past.
- [30:55]
Faith Moore
Yeah, I think you're right, because obviously, if you were transported right now from, you know, your home in 2025 to even a ballroom, even a glittering ballroom in. In Regency England, you're right. Your. Your clothes would be really uncomfortable. You wouldn't. You wouldn't know all the rules. You. Where would you go to the bathroom? I don't Even know, you know, and, you know, there's all kinds of things, but. Right. She just kind of. It's just this glimmering, sparkling kind of veneer that we get to see and we don't. You know, she never. She never shows us the underbelly at all. And, you know, I think that's wonderful. That's. That's what she's doing. And I think also you mentioned it's. It's an easier world for introverts. You know, we talked. When we read this book on the show, we talked a lot about, is Darcy just an introvert? Like, is that his problem? Like, does he have, like, social anxiety or social issue, which I know is not the same as introversion. People were upset with me because social anxiety are not the same thing. So that's fine. But, you know, is he. Is he struggling with some kind of, you know, social situation where he's not up for the. The way of being. But you're right that it. That all the rules and all of the etiquette that is involved does kind of make it easier if you're someone who struggles with that. You know, it's like, now it is time to chat over here. Now it is time to dance. Now it is time to walk in the shrubbery, you know, whatever it is.
- [32:28]
Bridget Huey
Exactly. And there were, like, prescribed, like, you know, it is. You know, you'd spend about 20 minutes on your call, and then you're leaving, you know, And I think.
- [32:39]
Faith Moore
I don't know.
- [32:39]
Bridget Huey
I wonder sometimes. I think to just say that Darcy is an introvert gives him a pass. I do think he is. But I also think that there's, you know, that runaway arrogance that crept up on him that, you know, a man in his position without older family members close to him is gonna potentially fall into, you know, without someone to keep. Keep him in check or give him a, you know, reality check, so to speak.
- [33:12]
Faith Moore
Yeah, absolutely. And I think. Right. That's his journey, is to figure out that, you know, he needs to see people for. For who they are and not what he thinks they're supposed to be or whatever that is. But so. Yeah, but, yeah, I think. I think you're right. There is this. There is a kind of comfort in. In the rules and in the etiquette that sometimes we feel like we wish we had in addition to. Oh, it's just so beautiful. And, you know, we would like to wear these dresses and get to have afternoon tea and the lovely tea set and everything. But I think that's a really good point, though.
- [33:46]
Bridget Huey
About.
- [33:46]
Faith Moore
About the rules. And, you know, and I think this is a great segue you mentioned. It's sort of a fairy tale scenario. Like, not just one particular fairy tale, but just, you know, this idea of we, we get to go, first of all, the ball. Right. That's a fairy tale. We get to go to the ball. And also that, you know, that, yes, you might meet this handsome man and. And all of these things. So let's get into this concept, because Cinderella is the fairy tale that is most often compared with.
- [34:17]
Bridget Huey
Yes.
- [34:17]
Faith Moore
Pride and Prejudice or the other way around. Pride and Prejudice is compared to Cinderella. And. And you just said you wrote all about this and took a class about this, which is fantastic. And so walk me through that. What. What is it about Pride and Prejudice that relates to Cinderella?
- [34:33]
Bridget Huey
Okay, so first, obviously, you've got your prince figure. Mr. Darcy is prince Charming. He's not royalty, but it doesn't matter in this context. And he's, you know, he's handsome, he's very wealthy. And also, I would say, and this is, I think why. Yeah, it's another reason why I love it so much, is that in. In addition to being handsome and wealthy, he's intelligent, he's, you know, he's got an active mind, and he is attractive for just that reason that it's, you know, he's not just some rich guy. He is a whole person. He's the whole package. Yes, he's the perfect guy. Yeah, he's the perfect guy. So you've got the perfect guy and then you have a woman who. And I would actually argue there are two in the story, but you've got Cinderella one who I would say is. Is Elizabeth Bennet. And part of the thing that makes a Cinderella story, and I think a lot of times when we think of Cinderella, we think of the Disney version.
- [35:46]
Faith Moore
Right.
- [35:47]
Bridget Huey
Which was based on the French author. And I'm going to butcher this because I don't speak French, but it was Perot, I think is how you say it.
- [35:57]
Faith Moore
I think Charles Perot is the closest that I've ever got.
- [36:00]
Bridget Huey
Okay.
- [36:00]
Faith Moore
Yeah.
- [36:01]
Bridget Huey
So his was very much watered down for the Victorian child, you know, nursery that, you know, he took out a lot of the good bits that in the. The older and sometimes the ancient versions of Cinderella really feature her engineering her own freedom in a way that, you know, the Disney version and the Charles plural version do not. And it's these older versions of the story that I think, you know, really show up in Pride and Prejudice, where Elizabeth Bennett, you know, she. She is not in an abusive household, but she is stuck in a place, you know, she's stuck in a place that might lead to poverty.
- [36:58]
Faith Moore
Yeah.
- [36:59]
Bridget Huey
And she's not nurtured or appreciated where she is. We also have the failed father figure, which is huge in the Cinderella storylines in Mr. Bennett, who really does all of his daughters a disservice by, you know, the way he engages with them and, you know, Elizabeth's interactions with Darcy. They're thrown together in much the same way that, you know, Cinderella arrives at the ball and, oh, there's, you know, a prince notices her, just like Darcy notices her right away. But then from there, she is taking steps to, you know, at first defend herself from this guy who just gets it all wrong. And then when she realizes, oh, my gosh, this is the guy that, you know, this could be my Prince Charming, she puts herself in the position to take action, you know, and she. Things that maybe in our day don't seem so huge, but, like, you know, figuring out what exactly happened with Lydia and who paid Wickham off and then taking the action to bring that up to Mr. Darcy and apologize and, you know, thank him for what he did. Those are all extraordinary steps. And that. That is where I see her embodying that Cinderella story. You also have Jane and Bingley, who are much more like the Disney Cinderella story. You've got this cute, rich guy, and he's nice, and he falls for this nice young woman, and, like, after a little bit of trouble, you know, they get back together, and it's great. But Jane doesn't really do much to save herself in that situation. She is much more the fairy tale heroine that is just sort of gifted by this fairy godmother who, one could argue is Mr. Darcy, who's like, okay, let's get these guys together now.
- [39:18]
Faith Moore
I love that Darcy is both Prince Charming and the very godmother.
- [39:24]
Bridget Huey
It's so great.
- [39:26]
Faith Moore
Do you think that Mrs. Bennet qualifies as the wicked stepmother? I know she's not the stepmother, but do you think that in the same way that the stepmother kind of sabotages Cinderella's chances of going to the ball, meeting the prince, all of that stuff, do you think that Mrs. Bennet sort of slots into that role, or is that a place where it sort of deviates?
- [39:50]
Bridget Huey
No. Yes, I do. I think she does. You know, she's not malicious, but she certainly doesn't help the cause, you know, and, like, she treats Lizzie as less than throughout. Throughout the novels, and she favors Lydia and Kitty, who, you know, are like, her true daughters almost. And, you know, and I suppose you could say she does favor Jane as well, because Jane is so beautiful. But for Elizabeth specifically, Yes, I think Mrs. Bennet does act as that mother figure that just gets in the way more than she, like, actively tries to sabotage. But she is. She's a barrier. She's a. She's an obstacle to overcome, definitely.
- [40:51]
Faith Moore
No, I agree. I think. I think it's all there. I think. Yeah.
- [40:55]
Bridget Huey
The.
- [40:55]
Faith Moore
The absent father, or the kind of. What did you call him?
- [40:58]
Bridget Huey
He's failed father.
- [41:00]
Faith Moore
Failed father, exactly right. He's supposed to be the dad. He's supposed to protect. He's supposed to take care, and he doesn't. And, you know, Mrs. Bennet, as the one who is kind of sabotaging Lizzie, even though she wants her to marry some rich man. She's also, you know, she's. She doesn't understand her. She's the least favorite daughter. And. And, in fact, these other daughters who really are not what they ought to be, like Lydia and Kitty, are not what they ought to be within the world of. Of Regency England. Right, right. She favors them. And then you've got the Prince Charming, and. And so I think. I mean, I think it's all there. Do you think. And this may be speculation or perhaps, you know, something that I don't, but do you think it's intentional? Do you think that Austen is purposefully writing a story that lines up with the Cinderella narrative? Or do you think it's just one of those stories that's so universal that that's what she's doing?
- [42:03]
Bridget Huey
That's such a good question. I don't have any, like, you know, hidden research knowledge. Neither do I. I wish I did, but I think. I'm not sure that it is intentional. I would venture to guess that it's not that it's just a story that we're all so familiar with, and I would really be interested to see which versions she had access to, you know, and. And were there even, like, you know, these tales, they got told and retold so many times, and a lot of times there's overlap between, like, the Snow White story and the Cinderella story. And, you know, these. Some of them, there are elements that will come in, you know, and you're like, oh, that. That sounds like Snow White, you know, and then the elements of Cinderella that will pop in, like the. Especially the shoe. The shoe comes in in a variety of ways.
- [43:12]
Faith Moore
Yeah.
- [43:13]
Bridget Huey
You know, and I think maybe in that way, just like we would say a lot of the romantic Sort of lighter, romantic comedy type books that we read today are retellings of Pride and Prejudice, I think, is kind of similar, where it was sort of in. In the air around her and just. It bled into her work because it was part of what she knew.
- [43:41]
Faith Moore
Yeah, I think that's probably right. We can't know. We're just speculating. But I think, you know, I think that's probably right, and that. That is a kind of good segue to this other piece of this that I wanted to ask you about, which is more broadly. This story, this Cinderella story is so ubiquitous, so universal to so many. I mean, so many cultures in the world have some version of a Cinderella story going back, I mean, thousands of years in some cases.
- [44:09]
Bridget Huey
Yes.
- [44:09]
Faith Moore
And so clearly, this concept of the girl who, you know, is in some kind of situation, poverty or some bad situation, making her way out of that into this world of wonderful, you know, royalty or wealth or whatever it is, you know, with this great guy, it matters to us as a culture. And I'm wondering, what are your thoughts on why that. Why that narrative? Why is that important to us?
- [44:43]
Bridget Huey
Yeah, I. So I think that a lot of it has to do with the fact that for forever, women just didn't. They weren't in positions of power in the way that men were in positions of power. And so it appeals to us, you know, specifically, as a woman, it always appealed to me that despite her terrible circumstances, there were all these strikes against her. She still found a way out. And I think that is really what appeals to people. And it. It sort of is coupled with this idea that maybe there is always hope for something better. Maybe, you know, you're not in a situation that is good or that is nurturing or whatever it may be, but there's this idea that maybe something magical could happen that could, you know, change your life or maybe even you personally could take the action and change your own life, even though it's hard and you don't have as much power and there are strikes against you.
- [46:00]
Faith Moore
Yeah, it's an underdog story, and we like those. Yes. And I think also, you know, we. We haven't really touched on this because it's not so much about Pride and Prejudice, but a little. It is, I think, also inherent in the Cinderella story is the concept of kind of your. Your true self being made known to the world. You know, Cinderella is this girl in rags, but inside is this beautiful princess, right. And she gets kind of transformed so that her outside kind of symbolically matches her inside. Right. And goes off to the ball and is recognized. And I think there's. I mean, it's kind of what you're saying also, but it's like there's this recognition.
- [46:40]
Bridget Huey
Yes.
- [46:41]
Faith Moore
This is who I really am. I'm not this. I'm not the cinder wench. I'm. I'm me. I'm this real individual person.
- [46:49]
Bridget Huey
Yes. Yeah. They're. One of my favorite versions is called donkey skin, and it is. I. I might fudge this, but I believe it was from the Middle east. And I love it because it's. She covers herself in this cloak with donkey skin to hide her beauty on purpose. Because in this and this one. A little creepy. The failed father figure is like, this creepy king that's trying to marry her. It's a long story, but her father.
- [47:21]
Faith Moore
Is trying to marry her.
- [47:22]
Bridget Huey
Yes. It's like. So it's like this weird. This is like this weird blending of Snow White and Cinderella where, like, the mom is dying, and she's like, it's okay. Get remarried. Just make sure that she's even more beautiful than me. No one is more beautiful than you except your daughter. So better. Mary.
- [47:41]
Faith Moore
Now this is starting to sound familiar. Yes. Okay.
- [47:44]
Bridget Huey
Yeah, yeah. So then, you know, protector of the. The princess in that fairy godmother type role, she's like, here, cover yourself in this donkey skin cloak. And. And go. And it's like she winds up working in the prince's palace as this servant. And then the whole story is about him finding her and recognizing her as an actual beautiful princess, not, you know, an ugly servant, which sounds terrible when you say it like that.
- [48:15]
Faith Moore
It's symbolic, though. It's not. It's not literal. It's not about, like, servants are bad and ugly. It's not about that. It's about. It's about what those things symbolically represent. And we can, like, take issue perhaps, with the symbols, but that's what they are, I think.
- [48:29]
Bridget Huey
Yes. Yes. So in this instance, it's like, she's not this dirty, ragged thing. She is this beautiful princess. And. And at the end of the story, she's revealed for what she is. And I think, yes, that. And for her, it was. It was sort of a matter of life and death, where it was like, she's got to find protection from this other crazy guy, you know, so she does what she can't. And I love her engineering. Her freedom is the best. She, like, bakes bread, and the prince is like, where is this delicious bread coming from? I must meet the maiden who makes this bread. And I Just. I love that, that she's like, look, I am beautiful. I make good bread. Please protect me from this crazy guy.
- [49:15]
Faith Moore
And, I mean, who needs anything else, right? Beautiful girl makes good bread. That's. That's fine. I think a lot of men would be okay with that.
- [49:21]
Bridget Huey
Even back in the day, that was, like. That was all he needed to know.
- [49:25]
Faith Moore
Right? Exactly. Yeah. No, I completely agree. I think. I think it really speaks to something inside of a lot of us, that feeling of, you know, first of all, I'm. I'm someone else than you think I am. I'm, you know, see me. See who I truly am. And also, you know, I'm down and out, and I'm gonna find some way out of this. I'm gonna find some way for myself out of this situation in which I am ostensibly powerless. But I'm going to do something that.
- [49:54]
Bridget Huey
Yes. Appealing. Right. It's so. It feels empowering, it feels hopeful. It. Like just good feelings when you read these stories and you can, you know, you think about your own life where it's important to be recognized for who you really are, and that the. The wonderful feeling that comes with that. Yeah, it's. Yeah, that's why it's a classic.
- [50:19]
Faith Moore
Exactly. That's. That's exactly right. So we're coming down to the end here, but I, I. So I want to talk to you about your work, because I think this is something that's really going to interest people, and they might not have heard of this, even this concept. So you write, among other things, Pride and Prejudice Variations. So can you just tell us what is a variation and what inspired you to specifically write Pride and Prejudice? Variations. Other than the fact that you obviously love the book very much.
- [50:46]
Bridget Huey
Yes, yes. So a variation is basically a what if story. And I will say, like, a story like Pride and Prejudice is in the public domain, so people can take it and work with it.
- [51:06]
Faith Moore
That's why we can read it on this show also. So. Yeah.
- [51:08]
Bridget Huey
Yes. Right. Yeah, it's pretty great. So what I do, and what authors of variations across, you know, various books will do is, you know, what. They ask questions. We ask questions like, what if Darcy had had a chance to apologize, like, soon after he insulted Elizabeth at the ball? Would her entire treatment of him have changed if he had come with the pretty apology? You know, what if. I've read some great ones where it's like, what if there's a snowstorm and they are, like, stuck together and basically forced in a Regency way to work it out?
- [51:46]
Faith Moore
You know, like, sounds like an Agatha Christie, like, and then somebody dies.
- [51:51]
Bridget Huey
I mean, and the. The variety is huge. You know, there are ones where it's like murder mystery, Pride and Prejudice. And, you know, and I think why they are appealing to read, you know, they're appealing to readers is because we love the characters. And in this way we get more Lizzie, more Darcy.
- [52:13]
Faith Moore
Yeah.
- [52:14]
Bridget Huey
And it's also, I think a. They're like, these books are like love notes to, like, one of the greatest couples ever, where no matter what you throw at them, they are gonna wind up together. So it's like this true love conquers all kind of feeling. And, you know, I think that's what makes them appealing is that you go into it knowing, oh, they're gonna end up happy, you know, and I love these characters. And let's have another go and see what, you know, see what life throws at them in this variation and how they overcome it.
- [52:49]
Faith Moore
Yeah, I love that. It's kind of like a. One of those time travel things where no matter what happens, this outcome, like, is going to. Is gonna end up being outcome in anyway. And also. Yeah, I mean, I think that's. You know, when we read books on the show and we come to the end, we are always so sad. We're always so sad to leave behind, like, the world of the book and these characters that we've fallen in love with and even the ones that we kind of love to hate and all of that, and we wish, but we don't. We can't not finish the book because we can't. We need to know what happens at the end. We need to get there. We need to get them together and have a happily ever after and all of that. But I think, you know, what you're saying is great. It's that. Yeah, but now we can kind of walk around in that world some more with those characters. Some more in a different way.
- [53:35]
Bridget Huey
In a different way. Yes.
- [53:37]
Faith Moore
So as far as I know, you have three. Is that right? I've Got Interrupted Plans, A Chance Encounter in Pemberley woods, and Spies of Our Acquaintance. Is that.
- [53:45]
Bridget Huey
Yes. And then just recently this year, I published Learning to Love.
- [53:51]
Faith Moore
Okay, great. I missed that one. Somehow.
- [53:53]
Bridget Huey
It's actually. It's like. It's a mashup between Pride and Prejudice and Little Women, which is another one.
- [54:00]
Faith Moore
Okay, I did see that one.
- [54:01]
Bridget Huey
All time favorites. Yes. So it's mostly Little Women, but. But Lizzie and Darcy make a little appearance.
- [54:06]
Faith Moore
Fantastic. And so, listeners, all links to these books are in the show notes of this episode. And so if this Sounds appealing to you, which I think it probably does. Click on that link and you can find those books and, and all the books that you've written. So this has been fantastic and an amazing chat. I have one last question for you. So other than your books, are there any books they could be modern or classics that you would recommend to people who just loved Pride and Prejudice and are sad it's over and want to read something else so they can go and get yours? What else can they, where else can they go?
- [54:43]
Bridget Huey
Well, I do have a couple of recommendations. So if you like this style of writing that, you know, it's a little bit, a little bit thicker, a little bit that older style of writing, I really would, I would give Nathaniel Hawthorne a shot. I think sometimes people have like bad memories of like having to read the Scarlet Letter in high school and they're like, oh, Hawthorne's worth. But the House of Seven Gables is great. It's got mystery, it's got romance, it. And it's written in a, you know, kind of similar style where it's, it's old fashioned setting. So I would, I would recommend that one. I would also recommend if you really love sweeping romance, the Scarlet Pimpernel, which is one of my absolute favorites.
- [55:36]
Faith Moore
I just read that for the first time. It is so good.
- [55:38]
Bridget Huey
It's so good, right? Yes. You read it and you're like, where's this been my whole life?
- [55:43]
Faith Moore
Why did he, why, why is this not like, why doesn't everyone recommend this book to everyone else?
- [55:48]
Bridget Huey
Yeah, yeah, it's, it is so great and I love it. And there's also multiple movie adaptations of that one. I would recommend the one with Jane Seymour. So good, good. Yeah, I think you know those for like classics. Those, those are like my recommendations. If you like the Jane Austen style, maybe try those.
- [56:13]
Faith Moore
Great. Those are excellent recommendations. Thank you. And thank you for this. This has been a lovely chat. I'm so glad that we got to do this. Tell people where they can find you if they want to find you.
- [56:26]
Bridget Huey
Okay, well, I, you can find me at my website, which is just bridgethewey.com and you should definitely get. Check the show notes for how to spell it because it's, it will be there.
- [56:36]
Faith Moore
Don't worry.
- [56:38]
Bridget Huey
It's an Irish spelling of my name so people struggle with it. I am on, you know, the usuals. I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook. My website though is like your go to where it's got everything, everything I've done great, you know, and you can definitely find my books on Amazon. So perfect.
- [56:56]
Faith Moore
So yes, there will be links in the Show Notes to your website and also to your Amazon page where people can just snap up those books because I think they're going to want to. So thank you. Thank you for coming on the show. It was a real pleasure.
- [57:07]
Bridget Huey
Thank you so much for having me. I loved it. This was great.
- [57:15]
Faith Moore
Thank you so much for listening. Storytime will return in September with a new book read aloud in twice weekly episodes with a few notes along the way. Like an audiobook with built in notes notes. The new book will be revealed sometime in August. In the meantime, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this episode. Is there anything you'd like me to clarify? Did something particularly interest you? Please go to my website, faithkmoore.com click on contact and send me your questions and thoughts. Or you can click on the link in the Show Notes to contact me. I'll feature some of your thoughts as we go along. Speaking of links, please check out the other links in the Show Notes. You can learn more about me, pick up Storytime Merch, or become a member of our online community. Before I go, I'd like to ask a quick favor. This is an independent podcast. It's produced, recorded and marketed by me, so I need your help. Spread the word about the show by posting about it on social media or texting a link to your friends. Subscribe, tap those five stars and leave a positive review wherever you're listening. If you are able to support the show financially, there's a link in the Show Notes to make a donation. I would really, really appreciate it. Alright everyone, class is dismissed. I'll see you next.