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Hello and welcome to Storytime for Grown Ups. I'm Faith Moore and this is Summer Session.
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Normally on Storytime for Grown Ups we.
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Read classic literature a few chapters at a time with a few notes along the way. Like an audiobook with built in notes. But during the summer we switch things up a little. From now until September, we will be in Summer Session, which is sort of like a college class, only fun. This summer we're exploring fairy tales and their relationship to the books we've read this year on storytime and storytelling more broadly. We'll do this in once a week episodes which will drop on Mondays.
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If this doesn't sound like your thing, don't worry.
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Storytime will be back with a new book in September, but for now, brew a pot of tea, find a cozy chair and settle in. Class is in session. Hi everyone. Welcome back. I hope you're keeping cool wherever you are.
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I don't know about where you are, but where I AM it's about 100 degrees right now and it feels like hotter with whatever that feels like thing is that happens. But I'm really happy to be here with you. I am excited to read some more fairy tales today. I've got a great question to start off the episode and then I'm going.
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To talk to you a little bit.
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About today's topic and I'm going to.
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Read you some fairy tales.
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So a packed episode today. I'm really excited about it, so hopefully we can get right into it after these few reminders. Please make sure you're subscribed to the show. That way you won't miss any episodes and you won't miss the trailer for our next book, the book that we're going to be reading in September. That trailer will come out in August, but I have just created it and it's really great and I'm really excited for the trailer to drop and I'm really excited for for the book that we're going to be reading. So subscribe please. If you've been enjoying the show, just tap those five stars. It's right there in your podcast player. You just hit it. It takes like half a second and that really helps the show to be visible to other people who are looking for new things to listen to. If you have a couple of extra.
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Seconds, please leave a positive review in your podcast player.
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That's also really helpful. Or if that's not your thing or.
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You'Ve already done it and you'd like.
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To help us grow even more, text a link to an episode or to the show itself to a friend, family member, a colleague, whoever, somebody that you think enjoy the show, text them a link and tell them to check it out.
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I hope that they will.
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The more people that we get, the more books we can do down the road. I can't do the show if nobody's listening, but you guys are listening and I'm so thrilled. The show is growing. It's because of you. So if you could just keep doing those things, then we will be able to read many, many more books to come and have many more summers together as well. And as always, don't forget to scroll into the show notes and take a look at all the links that are there. You can pick up some Storytime for Grown Ups merch. You can become a member of the Storytime for Grown Ups community. We had a lovely tea time last Tuesday. It was lots of fun and I really enjoyed getting to talk to you. Thank you to those of you who were there. I'm always so grateful to find you there in the drawing room at tea time. So you can sign up if you haven't already done that. There's a link for that and you can make a financial donation if that's something that interests you and you're willing and able. And of course the link to Contact me is there. It's faith k.moore.com and you click on contact or there's just a link right there in the show notes. You fill out that form, it goes right to my email. And I love to hear from you. I love getting your questions and comments. And of course I will feature one or two at the start of each episode, which is what I am going to do now. So I've got one comment that I'd like to read to you and talk about for just a couple of minutes. And then we're going to get into the topic of today's episode. I'd like to share a little bit with you about this topic and then I'm going to read to you a couple of fairy tales today. So let's get right into it with our question. Okay, so today's question comes to us from Lania Berger. I hope I'm saying that right. She writes, how fascinating that Cinderella's father is alive in all three stories you read. Disney protects the father's morals and integrity.
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By having him sadly deceased, but Basile, Perrault and Grimm allow him to remain.
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Alive and manipulated by his new bride.
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I am astounded by how deeply this changes the story for me and my empathy for my favorite princess.
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The lovely and good Cinderella. Okay, so this is a really great point, and I got this question after our episode on Cinderella, obviously. But this topic came up again last.
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Week in our interview with Bridget Huey.
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You know, we were talking about the trope of what she called the failed.
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Father and how it appears in Cinderella.
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But also in Pride and prejudice with Mr. Bennet, who, if you listen to.
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Pride and Prejudice with us, you will.
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Remember we talked about a great deal, and ultimately we felt that he was, in fact, neglecting his daughters and doing.
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Them a great disservice.
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But by his behavior, even though he seemed like a sort of funny and potentially harmless sort of character. And if you didn't read Pride and Prejudice, you can go back and listen to it with me. It's all still there. Scroll into your podcast feed. You'll find it. But of course, in Cinderella, the father is completely negligent, right? He first loves Cinderella more than life itself, and then the minute the stepmother and stepsisters show up, he completely forgets about her. Or worse than forgets about her, right? He actively abuses her and conspiracy, conspires with the step family to kind of relegate her to the kitchen and everything. And by the end, he looks on her with just as much scorn as the stepmother and can't fathom at all that this daughter might be the beautiful.
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Princess from the ball.
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And Lanya's point is really well taken, I think, in making it so that the father is dead, as the Disney version of Cinderella does and as many other modern adaptations of the story do. In doing that, you kind of let the father off the hook, right? We, as the reader or the viewer.
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Or whatever, we assume that had the.
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Father been alive, he wouldn't have allowed this to happen. It's only the fact of his death that allows the step family to take over so completely and turn Cinderella into the servant girl that she becomes. But here in the original fairy tale, we have the father still completely alive and well, totally complicit in Cinderella's fate. So what's up with that? Well, I think more broadly, the idea of parental figures failing their children is huge in fairy tales. And we'll get to this much more later on when we get into stepmothers, which we will in a couple of weeks. But there are also really bad fathers in fairy tales, too, and we're going to encounter one today, actually, as well in one of the stories that we read. And I think that the failed father has a really specific purpose in a fairy tale that's different than the Specific purpose of the Wicked Stepmother. Many, many of these fairy tales are about growing up. We're going to talk about this more in a moment when we get to today's topic. But growing up is a central idea in a lot of these stories, and one thing you have to do when you grow up is separate in some way from your family of origin. Giving these characters fathers who are negligent or hapless or helpless or powerless in some way, it creates a situation in which the main character has to fend for himself.
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The main character has to figure out.
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How to stand on his own two feet and venture into the world. And of course, in reality, we hope that everyone has good, supportive, caring parents who are going to nurture them and guide them through this transition to adulthood. But from a storytelling standpoint, it makes this transition that everyone has to go through. It makes it starker and much clearer if the protagonist is suddenly kind of thrust into the world to fend for himself. And additionally, growing up for many people does involve some kind of conflict with your parents, often your father, who's the head of the household in many homes and cultures, often becoming your own person means standing up to your father and saying, hey, I'm not who you thought I was going to be. I'm not a mini version of you. Let's say I'm myself. And I'm not going to be a lawyer. I'm going to be a dancer or whatever it is. And so this failed father trope is.
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Also symbolic of this, of the way in which children, as they grow up.
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And leave the nest, often have to break away in some kind of spectacular way from their family of origin, and there might be a conflict. So while killing off the father, as the Disney version of Cinderella does, while that might still catapult Cinderella into the world on her own to grow up.
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Having the father still alive also hits.
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On the potential universal, or at least common situation of needing to break with your family, at least for a time, in order to stand on your own two feet. So I think that's what the failed father is doing in this story and the other stories that we're going to see him appear in. So we've been talking about Cinderella for the past couple of weeks, but I want to move on now. I want to move away from that. Although ideas and themes that we've been discussing with Cinderella will keep popping up, and we'll come back to them when. When they do. But I'd like to start delving into some of the most prominent fairy tale elements right I said in the episode where I gave a brief history of.
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Fairy tales, that there are things that.
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Pop up in many, many fairy tales, like witches or fairy godmothers or princesses or wishing wells or whatever it is. They show up in multiple stories. And when they show up, they often hold the same symbolic resonance, or at least a very similar symbolic resonance for.
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From story to story. We've already addressed a couple of these.
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Right. When we were talking about Cinderella, we talked about the symbolism of princesses in a fairy tale. If you encounter a princess, she's almost always going to be the representation of a perfect woman. Princess ness symbolizes good woman most of the time. In fairy tales, we've discussed beauty in the same vein. Beauty on the outside almost always symbolizes.
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Beauty on the inside.
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And of course, conversely, ugliness on the outside almost always symbolizes ugliness on the ins. Of course, there are exceptions to all of this, and we'll use stories that have them, but that doesn't make it any less true. And princes, like princesses, are the fairy tale symbol, usually of the perfect man, a good man, a good guy who is moral and heroic and true and all of that. So we've already got a few of these fairy tale symbols under our belt, but I'd like to add another one in today, and there are a few more I'd like to cover over the course of the summer, but I'd like to focus in on one in particular today, and we're going to then read a couple of fairy tales that incorporate this idea. So the concept or the fairy tale symbol that I'd like to discuss this time is the idea of the deep, dark woods. Okay, so my guess is that the minute I said that or the minute you saw the title for this episode, this concept probably resonated with you in some way. You can probably think of at least one fairy tale that takes place in the woods or features the woods in some way. Or if not a fairy tale, you can almost certainly think of like a movie you've seen or a book you've read or something like that, where the woods are a prominent locale. I'm not thinking of a specific one here. I'm just saying that there are tons, and you can probably come up with at least one right now off the top of your head. The woods are spooky, they're mysterious, they can be confusing. You can get lost in them. There's also freedom in the woods. You can escape there and be maybe.
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Freer there than you can be out of the Woods.
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The woods are a huge trope, not just in fairy tales, but in all sorts of literature and other media.
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But of course they're huge in the.
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Other literature and media because they're huge in fairy tales. If you are a fan of Stephen Sondheim, or maybe even if you're not, you've probably heard of the musical into the woods, which features a bunch of fairy tale characters all meeting up in various configurations in the woods. And it's not a coincidence that it's the woods as opposed to, like the town square or something, because the woods are one of these symbolic elements that keep showing up in various fairy tales, which largely mean the same thing from story to story. So what does it mean? Well, I'd like to talk about that for a bit, and then I would.
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Like to read you a couple of.
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Fairy tales that take place in the woods and give you a few things to be looking out for as you listen. Okay, so let's start with the symbolic meaning of the woods in a fairy tale. So essentially, the woods is the place where fairy tale characters go to work things out. It's the place where the danger lies, and it's the place where the danger must be faced. Okay.
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It's the place where whatever change is.
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Going to happen to our main characters happens. The woods hold the magical or symbolic power to cause change.
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Whatever the problem is that the character.
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Has when he enters the woods, it's gonna be worked out for good or for ill by the time he leaves the woods. There's a book which might be of interest to you if you'd like to read more about interpretations of fairy tales. The book is called the Uses of Enchantment.
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It's by Bruno Bettelheim, who was a child psychologist.
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He was writing in the early 1900s. He was a Freudian. So I tend to take his writing with a grain of salt because, psychologically speaking anyway, Freudianism has been basically debunked at this point. But Bettelheim did have some interesting things to say about fairy tales and their symbolic resonance. He looks at them through a Freudian lens and believed, like we were talking about a couple of weeks ago, that these stories help children to grapple with difficult concepts in a safe and approach appropriate way. So his book is a really interesting read. And if you're interested in a Freudian take on fairy tale symbolism, then I really recommend it.
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But Bettelheim believed that the forest in.
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A fairy tale symbolized the confusion of our minds. Okay, here's a quote from the Uses of Enchantment he says, since ancient times, the near impenetrable forest in which we get lost has symbolized the dark, hidden, near impenetrable world of our unconscious. Okay? So for him, the forest in a fairy tale is symbolic of inner turmoil. And I think that's fair, I think that that works. But also, more broadly, it's the place where the crisis of your life comes to a head and you get some kind of result. And as I say, lots and lots of fairy tales feature the woods in some capacity. And we'll read more beyond today when we're talking about other fairy tale elements, just as we'll encounter more princes and princesses, even though we're not reading Cinderella anymore. But the two fairy tales that I would like to read to you today.
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Are Hansel and Gretel and Little Red Riding Hood.
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And we're going to actually read two different versions of Little Red Riding Hood, the Perrault version and the Grimm's Brothers version, for reasons which I will explain in a moment. So if the woods represent the place where the crisis gets worked out, there are sort of infinite plot points that this could encompass. If we're just talking broadly about crises and their resolutions. Like in your real life, okay, you could go into the woods symbolically to decide if you want to marry the person you've been dating, right? You could go into the woods to decide if you want to have another child or whether you're going to move to a different state or how you're going to manage your aging parents. You could go into the woods to deal with the person who's bullying you, or to meet up with the person that you love, who your parents disapprove of and on and on, right? And there are lots of, of reasons that fairy tale characters might go into the woods. But one really important one is, like I was just talking about before, is to grow up. Okay? In many, many fairy tales, the characters go into the woods to grapple with the transition from child to adult. And this can take many forms, okay?
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For Hansel and Gretel, for example, the.
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Transition from child to adult takes the form of figuring out how to become self sufficient. They enter the woods, children dependent on their parents, and they leave the woods having gone through a harrowing event that forced them to take control of their own destinies. For Little Red Riding Hood, the woods is where she first encounters sex or the prospect of sex. The wolf in Little Red Riding Hood is very clearly a man. We talked about this a little bit a few weeks ago, and the reason that I'm going to read you two versions of of Little Red Riding Hood today is that while the Grimm's version is the more well known and it will feel more familiar to you, the Perrault version is so clearly about sex and what happens when you give in to a man that you shouldn't give in to that. I think it's worth hearing that one as well.
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And you'll notice that the focus of.
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The two versions is also different. Both of them are cautionary tales, which is a type of fairy tale that we haven't actually encountered yet. They're both meant to teach children something about what not to do.
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But the focus of the Perrault version.
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Is on the encounter with the wolf and how once you succumb to a man out of wedlock, you're essentially ruined. So don't do that, children. Right. The Grimm version is more about listening to your parents and doing what they say so that you won't be ruined.
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And you'll see how the Brothers Grimm.
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Added to the Perrault version to specifically add in a punishment for the wolf and the lesson learned for Little Red.
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Right?
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We see Little Red kind of contritely agreeing to do what her mother says from now on. So it becomes much more of a lesson to children and a guidebook for how to be virtuous and good. Whereas the Perrault version, you will see is much more kind of like, don't do bad things, because then bad things will happen to you and you won't be able to do anything about it. It's kind of scaring you into being good in some ways. This will also be our first encounter with a wicked witch whom we will meet in Hansel and Gretel. And the wicked witch very often can be found in the woods, or her wickedness often plays out in the woods. Again, because a witch is often symbolic of or the catalyst for the evil that must be faced before you get out of the woods. So as you listen to these three stories, Hansel and Gretel and two versions of Little Red Riding Hood, pay attention to the woods and what happens when the characters go into the woods and what happens to them or what they are like when they emerge.
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And then write to me with your.
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Thoughts, because there's lots more to say about the woods in a fairy tale. But I am going to stop now so we can get to the reading of these three stories. So write to me. Faithk moore.com Tell me what you are thinking about about the deep, dark woods. What other ideas do you have about this fairy tale trope or any of the other ideas that we have here discussed today? I would love to hear from you.
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All right, let's get started with Hansel and Gretel and Little Red Riding Hood. It's story time. Hansel and Gretel, written down by the Brothers Grimm. Hard by a great forest dwelt a poor woodcutter with his wife and his two children. The boy was called Hansel and the girl Gretel. He had little to bite and to break. And once, when great dearth fell on the land, he could no longer procure even daily bread, meaning he was very poor.
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But when there was a famine in.
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The land, he couldn't even provide food for the family. Now, when he thought over this by night in his bed and tossed about in his anxiety, he groaned and said to his wife, what is to become of us? How are we to feed our poor children when we no longer have anything, even for ourselves? I'll tell you what, husband, answered the woman. Early tomorrow morning, we will take the children out into the forest to where it is the thickest. There we will light a fire for them and give each of them one more piece of bread. And then we will go to our.
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Work and leave them alone.
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They will not find the way home again, and we shall be rid of them.
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No, wife, said the man. I will not do that.
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How can I bear to leave my children alone in the forest?
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The wild animals would soon come and.
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Tear them to pieces. Oh, you fool, said she, then we must all four die of hunger. You may as well plane the planks for our coffins, meaning you might as.
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Well build our coffins, because we're going to die.
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And she left him no peace until he consented. But I feel very sorry for the.
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Poor children all the same, said the man.
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The two children had also not been able to sleep for hunger and had heard what their stepmother had said to their father. Gretel wept bitter tears and said to Hansel, now all is over with us. Be quiet, Gretel, said Hansel. Do not distress yourself. I will soon find a way to help us. And when the old folks had fallen asleep, he got up, put on his little coat, opened the door below and crept outside. The moon shone brightly and the white pebbles which lay in front of the house glittered like real silver pennies. Hansel stooped and stuffed the little pocket of his coat with as many as he could get in. Then he went back and said to Gretel, be comforted, dear little sister. And Sleep in peace. God will not forsake us. And he lay down again in his bed. When day dawned, but before the sun had risen, the woman came and awoke the two children, saying, came, get up, you sluggards, meaning, you lazy people, we are going into the forest to fetch wood. She gave each a little piece of bread and said, there is something for your dinner, but do not eat it up before then, for you will get nothing else. Gretel took the bread under her apron as Hansel had the pebbles in his pocket. Then they all set out together on the way to the forest. When they had walked a short time, Hansel stood still and peeped back at the house and did so again and again. His father said, hansel, what are you looking at there and staying behind for? Pay attention and do not forget how to use your legs. Ah, father, said Hansel, I am looking at my little white cat which is sitting up on the roof and wants to say goodbye to me. The wife said, fool, that is not your little cat. That is the morning sun which is shining on the chimneys. Hansel, however, had not been looking back at the cat, but had been constantly throwing one of the white pebble stones out of his pocket on the road. When they had reached the middle of the forest, the father said, now, children, pile up some wood, and I will light a fire that you may not be cold. Hansel and Gretel gathered brushwood together as high as a little hill. The brushwood was lighted, and when the flames were burning very high, the woman said, now, children, lay yourselves down by the fire and rest. We will go into the forest and cut some wood. When we have done, we will come back and fetch you away. Hansel and Gretel sat by the fire, and when noon came, each ate a little piece of bread, and as they heard the strokes of the wood axe, they believed that their father was near. It was not the axe, however, but a branch which he had fastened to a withered tree which the wind was blowing backwards and forwards. And as they had been sitting such a long time, their eyes closed with fatigue and they fell fast asleep. When at last they awoke, it was already dark night. Gretel began to cry and said, how are we to get out of the forest now? But Hansel comforted her and said, just wait a little until the moon has risen, and then we will soon find the way. And when the full moon had risen, Hansel took his little sister by the hand and followed the pebbles and which shone like newly coined silver pieces and showed them the way. They walked the whole night long, and by break of day came once more to their father's house. They knocked at the door, and when the woman opened it and saw that it was Hansel and Gretel, she said, you naughty children, why have you slept so long in the forest? We thought you were never coming back at all. The father, however, rejoiced, for it had cut him to the heart to leave them behind alone. Not long afterwards there was once more great dearth throughout the land, and the children heard their mother saying at night to their father, everything is eaten again. We have one half loaf left, and that is the end. The children must go. We will take them farther into the wood so that they will not find.
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Their way out again.
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There is no other means of saving ourselves. The man's heart was heavy, and he thought, it would be better for you to share the last mouthful with your children. The woman, however, would listen to nothing that he had to say, but scolded and reproached him. He who says A must say B likewise. And as he had yielded the first.
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Time, he had to do so a second time also.
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The children, however, were still awake and had heard the conversation. When the old folks were asleep, Hansel again got up and wanted to go out and pick up pebbles as he had done before. But the woman had locked the door and Hansel could not get out. Nevertheless, he comforted his little sister and said, do not cry, Gretel. Go to sleep quietly. The good God will help us. Early in the morning came the woman and took the children out of their beds. Their piece of bread was given to them, but it was still smaller than the time before. On the way into the forest, Hansel crumbled his in his pocket and often stood still and threw a morsel on the ground. Hansel, why do you stop and look round? Said the father. Go on. I am looking back at my little pigeon which is sitting on the roof and wants to say goodbye to me, answered Hansel. Fool, said the woman. That is not your little pigeon. That is the morning sun that is shining on the chimney. Hansel, however, little by little threw all the crumbs on the path. The woman led the children still deeper into the forest where they had never in their lives been before. Then a great fire was again made, and the mother said, just sit here, you children, and when you are tired you may sleep a little. We are going into the forest to cut wood, and in the evening, when we are done, we will come and fetch you away. When it was noon, Gretel shared her piece of bread with Hansel, who had scattered his by the way. Then they fell asleep and evening passed. But no one came to the poor children. They did not awake until it was dark night. And Hansel comforted his little sister and said, just wait, Gretel, until the moon rises, and then we shall see the crumbs of bread which I have strewn about. They will show us our way home again. When the moon came, they set out, but they found no crumbs, for the many thousands of birds which fly about in the woods and fields had picked them all up. Hansel said to Gretel, we shall soon find the way. But they did not find it. They walked the whole night, and all the next day too, from morning till evening. But they did not get out of the forest and were very hungry, for they had nothing to eat but two or three berries which grew on the ground. And as they were so weary that their legs would carry them no longer, they lay down beneath a tree and fell asleep. It was now 3morning since they had left their father's house. They began to walk again, but they always came deeper into the forest, and if help did not come soon, they must die of hunger and weariness. When it was midday, they saw a beautiful snow white bird sitting on a bough, which sang so delightfully that they stood still and listened to it. And when its song was over, it spread its wings and flew away before them. And they followed it until they reached a little house on the roof of which it alighted. And when they approached the little house, they saw that it was built of bread and and covered with cakes, but that the windows were of clear sugar. We will set to work on that, said Hansel, and have a good meal. I will eat a bit of the roof, and you, Gretel, can eat some of the window. It will taste sweet. Hansel reached up above and broke off a little of the roof to try how it tasted. And Gretel leant against the window and nibbled at the panes. Then a soft voice cried from the parlor in nibble, nibble, gnaw. Who is nibbling at my little house? The children answered the wind, the wind, the heaven born wind. And went on eating without disturbing themselves. Hansel, who liked the taste of the roof, tore down a great piece of it. And Gretel pushed out the whole of one round window pane, sat down and enjoyed herself with it. Suddenly the door opened and a woman as old as the hills who supported herself on crutches and came creeping out. Hansel and Gretel were so terribly frightened that they let fall what they had in their hands. The old woman, however, nodded her head and said, oh, you dear children, who has brought you here, do come in and stay with me. No harm shall happen to you. She took them both by the hand and led them into her little house. Then good food was set before them. Milk and pancakes with sugar, apples and nuts. Afterwards, two pretty little beds were covered with clean white linen, and Hansel and Gretel lay down in them and thought they were in heaven. The old woman had only pretended to be so kind. She was in reality a wicked witch who lay in wait for children and had only built the little house of bread in order to entice them there. When a child fell into her power, she killed it, cooked and ate it, and that was a feast day with her. Witches have red eyes and cannot see far, but they have a keen scent like the beasts and are aware when human beings draw near. When Hansel and Gretel came into her neighborhood, she laughed with malice and said mockingly, I have them. They shall not escape me again. Early in the morning, before the children were awake, she was already up. And when she saw both of them sleeping and looking so pretty with their plump and rosy cheeks, she muttered to herself, that will be a dainty mouthful. Then she seized Hansel with her shriveled hand, carried him into a little stable and locked him in behind a grated door. Scream as he might, it would not help him. Then she went to Gretel, shook her till she awoke and cried, get up, lazy thing. Fetch some water and cook something good for your brother. He is in the stable outside and is to be made fat. When he is fat, I will eat him. Gretel began to weep bitterly, but it was all in vain, for she was forced to do what the wicked witch commanded. And now the best food was cooked for poor Hansel, but Gretel got nothing but crab shells. Every morning the woman crept to the little stable and cried, and Hansel, stretch out your finger, that I may feel if you will soon be fat. Hansel, however, stretched out a little bone to her, and the old woman, who had dim eyes, could not see it and thought it was Hansel's finger and was astonished that there was no way of fattening him. When four weeks had gone by and Hansel still remained thin, she was seized with impatience and would not wait any longer. Now then, Gretel, she cried to the girl, stir yourself and bring some water. Let Hansel be fat or lean. Tomorrow I will kill him and cook him. Ah, how the poor little sister did lament when she had to fetch the water, and how her tears did flow down her cheeks. Dear God, do help us. She cried. If the wild beasts in the forest had but devoured us, we should at any rate have died together. Just keep your noise to yourself, said the old woman. It won't help you at all. Early in the morning Gretel had to go out and hang up the cauldron with the water and light the fire. We will bake first, said the old woman. I have already heated the oven and kneaded the dough. She pushed poor Gretel out to the oven, from which flames of fire were already darting. Creep in, said the witch, and see if it is properly heated so that we can put the bread in. And once Gretel was inside, she intended to shut the oven and let her bake in it, and then she would eat her too. But Gretel saw what she had in mind and said, I do not know how I am to do it. How do I get in? Silly goose, said the old woman, the door is big enough. Just look, I can get in myself. And she crept up and thrust her head into the oven. Then Gretel gave her a push that drove her far into it and shut the iron door and fastened the bolt. Oh. Then she began to howl quite horribly. But Gretel ran away and the godless witch was miserably burnt to death. Gretel, however, ran like lightning to Hansel, opened his little stable and cried, hansel, we are saved. The old witch is dead. Then Hansel sprang like a bird from its cage when the door is opened. How they did rejoice and embrace each other, and dance about and kiss each other. And as they had no longer any need to fear her, they went into the witch's house. And in every corner there stood chests full of pearls and jewels. These are far better than pebbles, said Hansel, and thrust into his pockets whatever.
B
Could be got in.
A
And Gretel said, I too will take something home with me, and filled her pinafore full. But now we must be off, said Hansel, that we may get out of the witches forest. When they had walked for two hours, they came to a great stretch of water. We cannot cross, said Hansel. I see no foot plank and no bridge. And there is also no fairy, answered Gretel. But a white duck is swimming there. If I ask her, she will help us over. Then she cried, little duck, little duck, dost thou see? Hansel and Gretel are waiting for thee there's never a plank or bridge in sight. Take us across on thy back. So white the duck came to them, and Hansel seated himself on its back and told his sister to sit by him. No, replied Gretel, that will be too heavy for the little duck. She shall take us across one after the other. The good little duck did so. And when they were once safely across and had walked for a short time, the forest seemed to be more and more familiar to them, and at length they saw from afar their father's house. Then they began to run, rushed into the parlor and threw themselves round their father's neck. The man had not known one happy hour since he had left the children in the forest. The woman, however, was dead. Gretel emptied her pinafore until pearls and precious stones ran about the room and Hansel threw one handful after another out of his pocket to add to them. Then all anxiety was at an end and they lived together in perfect happiness. Little Red Riding Hood by Charles Perrault Once upon a time there lived in a certain village a little country girl. The prettiest creature was ever seen. Her mother was excessively fond of her and her grandmother was doted on her much more. This good woman got made for her a Little Red Riding Hood, meaning like a cloak with a hood on it, which became the girl so extremely well that everybody called her Little Red Riding Hood. One day, her mother, having made some girdle cakes which are like pancakes, said to her, go, my dear, and see how thy grandmama does, for I hear she has been very ill. Carry her a girdle cake and this little pot of butter. Little Red Riding Hood set out immediately to go to her grandmother who lived in another village. As she was going through the wood, she met with Gaffer Wolf.
B
So Gaffer is an old man.
A
So this is Old Man Wolf, who had a very great mind to eat her up. But he durst not, meaning he dared not because of some faggot makers hard by in the forest.
B
Faggot? Here is a bundle of sticks. So there are some woodcutters basically nearby. So the wolf doesn't dare eat her here.
A
He asked her whither she was going. The poor child, who did not know that it was dangerous to stay and hear a wolf talk, said to him, I am going to see my grandmama and carry her a girdle cake and a little pot of butter from my mama. Does she live far off? Said the wolf. Oh ay, answered Little Red Riding Hood. It is beyond that mill you see there at the first house in the village. Well, said the wolf, I'll go and see her too.
B
I'll go this way and you go.
A
That, and we shall see who will be there soonest. The wolf began to run as fast as he could, taking the nearest way, and the little girl went by that farthest about diverting herself in gathering nuts, running after butterflies and making nosegays of such little flowers as she met with the wolf was not long before he got to the old woman's house. He knocked at the door. Tap, tap. Who's there? Your grandchild, Little Red Riding Hood, replied.
B
The wolf, counterfeiting her voice, who has.
A
Brought you a girdle cake and a.
B
Little pot of butter sent by Mama?
A
The good grandmother, who was in bed because she found herself somewhat ill, cried out, pull the peg and the boat will fall. The wolf pulled the peg and the door opened and then presently he fell.
B
Upon the good woman and ate her up in a mom.
A
For it was above three days that he had not touched a bit meaning.
B
He hadn't eaten for three days.
A
He then shut the door and went into the grandmother's bed expecting Little Red Cap who came sometime afterwards and knocked at the door. Tap, tap.
B
Who's there?
A
Little Red Cap, hearing the big voice of the wolf, was at first afraid but believing her grandmother had got a cold and was hoarse, answered, tis your grandchild, Little Red Cap, who has brought you a girdle cake and a little pot of butter Mama sends you. The wolf cried out to her, softening his voice as much as he could. Pull the peg and the bolt will fall. Little Red Cap pulled the peg and the door opened. The wolf, seeing her come in, said.
B
To her hiding himself under the bedclothes.
A
Put the cake and the little pot of butter upon the bread bin and come and lie down with me. Little Red Riding Hood undressed herself and went into bed where, being greatly amazed to see how her grandmother looked in her night clothes she said to her, grandmama, what great arms you have got. That is the better to hug thee, my dear Grandmama, what great legs you have got. That is to run the better, my child. Grandmama, what great ears you have got. That is to hear the better, my child.
B
Grandmama, what great eyes you have got.
A
It is to see the better, my child.
B
Grandmama, what great teeth you have got.
A
That is to eat thee up.
B
And saying these words, this wicked wolf fell upon poor Little Red Cap and.
A
Ate her all up. Little Red Cap or Little Red Riding Hood, written down by the Brothers Grimm, Once upon a time there was a dear little girl who was loved by everyone who looked at her, but most of all by her grandmother. And there was nothing that she would.
B
Not have given to the child.
A
Once she gave her a little cap of red velvet, which suited her so well that she would never wear anything else. So she was always called Little Red Cap. One day one her mother said to her, come, Little Red Cap, here is a piece of cake and a bottle of wine. Take them to your grandmother. She is ill and weak, and they will do her good.
B
Set out before it gets hot, and.
A
When you are going, walk nicely and quietly, and do not run off the path, or you may fall and break the bottle, and then your grandmother will get nothing. And when you go into her room, don't forget to say good morning, and don't peep into every corner before you do it. I will take great care, said Little Red Cap to her mother, and gave.
B
Her hand on it, meaning, she swore to it.
A
The grandmother lived out in the wood, half a league from the village. And just as Little Red Cap entered the wood, a wolf met her. Red Cap did not know what a wicked creature he was, and was not at all afraid of him.
B
Good day, Little Red Cap, said he.
A
Thank you kindly, Wolf. Whither away so early, Little Red Cap? To my grandmother's.
B
What have you got in your apron?
A
Cake and wine. Yesterday was baking day. So poor sick grandmother is to have something good to make her stronger.
B
Where does your grandmother live, Little Red Cap?
A
A good quarter of a league farther on in the wood. Her house stands under the three large oak trees. The nut trees are just below. You surely must know it, replied Little Red Cap. The wolf thought to himself, what a tender young creature.
B
What a nice plump mouthful she will be.
A
Better to eat than the old woman. I must act craftily so as to catch both. So he walked for a short time by the side of Little Red Cap, and then he said, see, Little Red Cap, how pretty the flowers are about here. Why do you not look around? I believe, too, that you do not hear how sweetly the little birds are singing. You walk gravely along as if you.
B
Were going to school, while everything else out here in the woods is merry.
A
Little Red Cap raised her eyes, and when she saw the sunbeams dancing here and there through the trees and pretty flowers growing everywhere, she thought, suppose I take grandmother a fresh nosegay, meaning a.
B
Little bouquet of flowers.
A
That would please her too.
B
It is so early in the day.
A
That I shall still get there in good time. And so she ran from the path into the wood to look for flowers, and whenever she had picked one, she fancied that she saw a still prettier one farther on and ran after it, and so got deeper and deeper into the wood. Meanwhile, the wolf ran straight to the grandmother's house and knocked at the door. Who is there? Little Redcap, replied the wolf.
B
She is bringing cake and wine.
A
Open the door.
B
Lift the latch, called out the grandmother.
A
I am too weak and cannot get up. The wolf lifted the latch, the door sprang open, and without saying a word, he went straight to the grandmother's bed and devoured her. Then he put on her clothes, dressed himself in her cap, laid himself in bed, and drew the curtains. Little Red Cap, however, had been running about picking flowers, and when she had gathered so many that she could carry no more, she remembered her grandmother and set out. On the way to her, she was surprised to find the cottage door standing open. And when she went into the room.
B
She had such a strange feeling that.
A
She said to herself, oh, dear, how uneasy I feel today.
B
And at other times.
A
I like being with grandmother so much. She called out, good morning, but received no answer. So she went to the bed and drew back the curtains. There lay her grandmother with her cap pulled far over her face and looking very strange. Oh, grandmother, she said, what big ears you have. The better to hear you with, my.
B
Child, was the reply.
A
But grandmother, what big eyes you have, she said, the better to see you with, my dear. But grandmother, what large hands you have. The better to hug you with. Oh, but grandmother, what a terrible big mouth you have. The better to eat you with. And scarcely had the wolf said this than with one bound he was out of bed and swallowed up Redcap. When the wolf had appeased his appetite, he lay down again in the bed, fell asleep and began to snore very loud. The huntsman was just passing the house and thought to himself, how the old woman is snoring. I must just see if she wants anything. So he went into the room, and when he came to the bed, he.
B
Saw that the wolf was lying in it. Do I find you here, you old sinner? Said he.
A
I have long sought you. Then, just as he was going to fire at him, it occurred to him that the wolf might have devoured the grandmother and that she might still be saved. So he did not fire, but took a pair of scissors and began to cut open the stomach of the sleeping wolf. When he had made two snips, he.
B
Saw the little red cap shining.
A
And then he made two snips more, and the little girl sprang out crying.
B
Ah, how frightened I have been.
A
How dark it was inside the wolf. And after that the aged grandmother came.
B
Out, alive also, but scarcely able to breathe.
A
Red Cap, however, quickly fetched great stones with which they filled the wolf's belly. And when he awoke, he wanted to run away, but the stones were so.
B
Heavy that he collapsed at once and fell dead.
A
Then all three were delighted. The huntsman drew off the wolf's skin and went home with it. The grandmother ate the cake and drank the wine which Red Cap had brought and revived. But Redcap thought to herself, as long.
B
As I live, I will never by.
A
Myself leave the path to run into the wood when my mother has forbidden.
B
Me to do so.
A
It also related that once, when Redcap was again taking cakes to her old grandmother, another wolf spoke to her and tried to entice her from the path.
B
Redcap, however, was on her guard and.
A
Went straight forward on her way and told her grandmother that she had met the wolf and that he had said good morning to her, but with such.
B
A wicked look in his eyes that.
A
That if they had not been on the public road, she was certain he would have eaten her up.
B
Well, said the grandmother, we will shut.
A
The door that he may not come in. Soon afterwards the wolf knocked and cried, open the door, Grandmother. I am little Red Cap and am bringing you some cakes. But they did not speak or open the door. So the graybeard stole twice or thrice round the house and at last jumped on the roof, intending to wait until Red Cap went home in the evening, and then to steal after her and devour her in the darkness. But the grandmother saw what was in his thoughts. In front of the house was a great stone trough.
B
So she said to the child, take.
A
The pail, Red Cap. I made some sausages yesterday, so carry the water in which I boiled them to the trough. Red Cap carried until the great trough was quite full. Then the smell of the sausages reached the wolf and he sniffed and peeped down and at last stretched out his neck so far that he could no longer keep his footing and began to slip and slipped down from the roof straight into the great trough and was drowned. But Redcap went joyously home and no one ever did anything to harm her again. Thank you so much for listening. Storytime will return in September with a new book read aloud in twice weekly episodes, with a few notes along the way.
B
Like an audiobook with built in notes.
A
The new book will be revealed sometime in August. In the meantime, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this episode. Is there anything you'd like me to clarify? Did something particularly interest you? Please go to my website, faithkmoore.com click on contact and send me your questions and thoughts. Or you can click on the link in the Show Notes to contact me.
B
I'll feature some of your thoughts as we go along.
A
Speaking of links, please check out the other links in the Show Notes. You can learn more about me, pick up storytime merch, or become a member.
B
Of our online community.
A
Before I go, I'd like to ask a quick favor.
B
This is an independent podcast.
A
It's produced, recorded and marketed by me, so I need your help. Spread the word about the show by.
B
Posting about it on social media or.
A
Texting a link to your friends.
B
Subscribe, tap those five stars and leave.
A
A positive review wherever you're listening. If you are able to support the show financially, there's a link in the.
B
Show Notes to make a donation. I would really, really appreciate it.
A
Alright everyone, class is dismissed.
B
I'll see you next week. Sam.
Storytime for Grownups: Summer Session — The Deep Dark Woods
Release Date: June 30, 2025
Hosts: Faith Moore and Sam
Time Stamp: [00:00] – [01:30]
Faith Moore welcomes listeners to a special "Summer Session" of Storytime for Grownups, a departure from the usual format of reading classic literature chapters with insightful notes. Instead, for the summer months, the podcast adopts a "college class" approach, focusing on the exploration of fairy tales and their connections to previously discussed books and broader storytelling themes.
Faith Moore:
"From now until September, we will be in Summer Session, which is sort of like a college class, only fun."
[00:10]
Time Stamp: [01:30] – [18:24]
Sam takes over to engage listeners with reminders to subscribe, leave positive reviews, and share the podcast with friends and family. Sam emphasizes the importance of community support in allowing the podcast to continue and expand its offerings.
Sam:
"If you've been enjoying the show, just tap those five stars... it really helps the show to be visible to other people who are looking for new things to listen to."
[01:30]
Faith adds details about additional resources available in the show notes, such as merchandise, community memberships, and opportunities for listener interaction through questions and comments.
Time Stamp: [18:24] – [08:10]
The discussion transitions to a listener's question regarding the portrayal of Cinderella's father in various versions of the tale. Faith and Sam analyze the implications of having a deceased father in Disney's adaptation versus the active but complicit father in original tales by Basile, Perrault, and Grimm.
Faith Moore:
"We, as the reader or the viewer, assume that had the father been alive, he wouldn't have allowed this to happen."
[05:47]
Sam expands on the significance of the "failed father" trope, relating it to the broader theme of growing up and the necessity for protagonists to navigate challenges independently. This narrative device underscores the transition from childhood dependency to self-sufficiency.
Sam:
"Growing up is a central idea in a lot of these stories, and one thing you have to do when you grow up is separate in some way from your family of origin."
[07:10]
Time Stamp: [08:10] – [14:23]
Faith introduces the episode's main theme: the symbolism of the deep dark woods in fairy tales. Drawing on Bruno Bettelheim's "The Uses of Enchantment," they discuss how forests represent places of crisis and transformation, serving as settings where characters confront and overcome significant challenges.
Faith Moore:
"The near impenetrable forest in which we get lost has symbolized the dark, hidden, near impenetrable world of our unconscious." *(Paraphrased)
[13:35]
Sam highlights the dual nature of woods as both places of danger and freedom, essential for character development and the resolution of internal conflicts.
Sam:
"The woods hold the magical or symbolic power to cause change."
[12:28]
Time Stamp: [14:23] – [46:38]
Faith and Sam proceed to read and analyze three classic fairy tales: Hansel and Gretel, and two versions of Little Red Riding Hood (Perrault and Grimm). Through these narratives, they exemplify the recurring motifs and symbolic meanings associated with the woods.
Faith narrates the Brothers Grimm version of Hansel and Gretel, emphasizing themes such as familial neglect, survival, and resourcefulness. The story illustrates the siblings' journey through the woods, encountering the wicked witch, and ultimately overcoming adversity through courage and intelligence.
Faith Moore:
"Gretel ran like lightning to Hansel, opened his little stable and cried, 'Hansel, we are saved.'”
[33:16]
Faith reads both the Perrault and Grimm versions of Little Red Riding Hood, highlighting the differing moral lessons each version imparts.
Sam:
"The Perrault version is so clearly about sex and what happens when you give in to a man that you shouldn't give in to that."
[16:21]
Faith Moore:
"The Grimm version... added in a punishment for the wolf and the lesson learned for Little Red."
[16:53]
Time Stamp: [08:10] – [46:38]
Throughout the readings, Faith and Sam point out how the deep dark woods serve as crucibles for the protagonists' development. They discuss how these environments force characters to confront their fears, make pivotal decisions, and emerge transformed.
Faith Moore:
"What I would like to discuss this time is the idea of the deep, dark woods... they are a huge trope, not just in fairy tales, but in all sorts of literature and other media."
[09:31]
Sam:
"The woods are the place where fairy tale characters go to work things out. It's the place where the danger lies, and it's the place where the danger must be faced."
[12:05]
Time Stamp: [46:38] – [48:30]
Faith wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to reflect on the symbolism of the deep dark woods and share their thoughts via the website. She also previews the podcast's return in September with a new book and continues to solicit support through subscriptions, reviews, and donations.
Faith Moore:
"Write to me with your thoughts, because there's lots more to say about the woods in a fairy tale."
[18:24]
Sam:
"I'll see you next week, Sam."
[48:33]
Faith Moore:
"From now until September, we will be in Summer Session, which is sort of like a college class, only fun."
[00:10]
Sam:
"If you've been enjoying the show, just tap those five stars... it really helps the show to be visible to other people who are looking for new things to listen to."
[01:30]
Faith Moore:
"We, as the reader or the viewer, assume that had the father been alive, he wouldn't have allowed this to happen."
[05:47]
Sam:
"Growing up is a central idea in a lot of these stories, and one thing you have to do when you grow up is separate in some way from your family of origin."
[07:10]
Faith Moore:
"The near impenetrable forest in which we get lost has symbolized the dark, hidden, near impenetrable world of our unconscious."
[13:35]
Sam:
"The Perrault version is so clearly about sex and what happens when you give in to a man that you shouldn't give in to that."
[16:21]
Faith Moore:
"What I would like to discuss this time is the idea of the deep, dark woods... they are a huge trope, not just in fairy tales, but in all sorts of literature and other media."
[09:31]
In this episode of Storytime for Grownups, Faith Moore and Sam delve deep into the rich symbolism of the woods in fairy tales, exploring how these narratives use setting as a catalyst for character development and moral lessons. By analyzing classic stories like Hansel and Gretel and Little Red Riding Hood, they uncover the timeless themes of survival, obedience, and the journey from innocence to experience. This Summer Session not only provides engaging storytelling but also invites listeners to ponder the deeper meanings behind these beloved tales.