Call-In Ep w/ George and Sam

Summary

StraightioLab – "Call-In Ep w/ George and Sam" November 4, 2025 | Big Money Players Network & iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In this dynamic call-in episode, comedians George Civeris and Sam Taggart field voicemails from listeners on their characteristically playful and intellectual podcast, StraightioLab. Broadcasting from opposite coasts, the pair embark on a loosely-structured journey through straight and queer culture, pop stardom, personal neuroses, and the quest for meaning—often filtered through a haze of seasonal malaise and self-deprecating humor. With topics ranging from Halloween costumes and the nuances of pop diva status to protein powder, dumb boyfriends, and why hot ice cream might exist, this episode is a vibrant, meandering conversation about culture and community through a queer lens.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Mood (04:06–11:18)

• Bi-coastal Check-in: Sam and George reflect on ending their run of upbeat New York recordings and settling into gloomier energy: “I have what is known in the medical community as brain fog. It is absolutely kicking my ass.” (George, 04:40)
• Seasonal depression, LA vs. NY weather, and the peculiar self-pitying joys of bad moods.
• Sam and Misha’s Halloween costume journey morphing into an existential search for sock garters—“They don’t have, like, there are none in Los Angeles that I can find. And Amazon, sorry, is not delivering until Saturday.” (Sam, 08:55)

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Call-In Segment: Hot Topics & Listener Quandaries

1. Lily Allen, David Harbour, and the Evolving Sex Symbol (17:05–27:21)

• Listener asks about the fallout from Lily Allen’s breakup album and its effect on David Harbour’s status—especially among gay fans.
• Sam: “David Harbour is a huge sex symbol in the bear community…[this] is not gonna make a splash. I think everyone will still want to have sex with him.” (18:00)
• George and Sam: Analyze shifts in ‘cancellation’ culture, how Allen’s personality resists victim framing, and the shifting meaning of public catharsis.
• “She is a bad girl. She’s a psycho. She’s done insane things in the past…she, I would say, partially owns it.” (George, 23:16)
• Overall consensus: Allen’s messiness is on brand, neither artist is truly 'canceled,' and the album’s relentless confessional tone is both compelling and exhausting.

2. Performing for Hot People—Does It Help or Hinder? (27:42–31:13)

• Q: Does a hot audience member improve a stand-up’s act—or lead to a flop?
• Sam: “It does distract me...I try to remain professional for the most part, but it does distract me.”
• George: “I’m thinking the exact opposite...I’m the theater kid, loser on stage, and this person is sitting there with their arms crossed being like, what the hell does this idiot have to say?” (30:11)
• Both agree the true thrill is post-show validation—a hot person saying they enjoyed the gig.

3. Media You Loved, Now Hate (31:18–31:52)

• George confesses to no longer loving Austin Powers and Rat Race.
• Sam is viscerally offended: “Such a bitch. You knew that would hurt my feelings and you're saying that to hurt my feelings.” (31:33)

4. Is Lorde a "Gay Pop Diva"? The Taxonomy of Pop Stardom (35:02–43:10)

• Heated debate on the criteria for 'gay pop diva' status, spurred by detailed listener taxonomies.
• George: “Being a gay pop diva...you have this narrative of being the underdog and then persevering; you have gone through, and I understand that.”
• Sam: Doesn't accept Dua Lipa's exclusion from 'diva' status—“If she’s not a gay pop diva, then what is she?” (36:04)
• They introduce the “bachelor’s-master’s-PhD” escalator of pop stardom, with ‘diva’ as the terminal degree.

5. The Protein Discourse—Straight or Gay? (44:16–52:22)

• Listener asks: Is the “protein everywhere” trend straight?
• Sam: Protein “ten years ago…was very straight...the straightest guy in the world” (45:10), but now is “becoming queer for yoga girls.”
• George: “Capitalism works is that one market was cornered...how do we expand this market? We feminize protein and make it also for women.” (46:33)
• They muse on the strange omnipresence of protein and the need for new nutritional institutions (“the food pyramid has fallen and we need to rebuild it.”, 49:36)

6. Rapid-Fire Calls: Books, Oscars for Charli XCX, Hot Pop Girl Demographics, and More

• What Are You Reading? (52:35)

  • Sam finished The Shards: “I felt like a little kid again, kind of glued to the book...didn’t end as satisfyingly as I had hoped.” (52:43)
  • George is rereading Satin Island and pitches Brideshead Revisited as a “Secret History adjacent” classic. (54:57)

• Charli XCX: What Role Wins Her an Oscar? (55:38–61:27)

  • Sam: “She would have to play like a dowdy mother who was like dealing with intergenerational trauma…maybe it's even in the Victorian era.” (56:54)
  • George: “Charlie could be the new M in James Bond.” (59:56)

• Dating Someone Hot but a Little Dumb (61:50–71:06)

  • Is 'lack of general knowledge’ a dealbreaker?
  • George: “Intelligence is a tough one.” (63:14); distinguishes “dumb” from uninformed, and worries about social embarrassment.
  • Sam: “There are metrics in which I am dumb…but being able to win at Trivial Pursuit is not necessarily intelligent.” (63:49)
  • Both confess to lacking spatial awareness/sense of direction (George), and inefficiency (Sam).

• Pop Girl Appeal: Who Has All Three Fanbases? (74:16–78:54)

  • Who appeals simultaneously to straight women, gay men, and lesbians?
  • Sam: “Gaga” and (briefly) Kacey Musgraves.
  • George: “Taylor Swift...has all three and has them bad.” (75:54), also Beyoncé and possibly Demi Lovato or Miley Cyrus (to a lesser but passionate degree).

• Heimlich Game: Boygenius, MUNA, and Haim (79:52–84:19)

  • Assign Haim “roles” to MUNA and Boygenius; deep-dive into girl-band personalities via social media output.
  • “Muna is part of the comedy community,” (83:00) while Haim “is going esti mode” with viral dances (82:44).

• Miscellaneous Quick Hits

  • Do you like penises? (“It’s a yes for me.” – George, 84:22)
  • Tyra Banks’ “hot ice cream” – Sam’s lifelong wish for “lukewarm ice cream that still has its texture” not fulfilled by this invention (86:46+).
  • Top a twink/stop and think meme: “We have seen it, and we think it's hilarious.” (88:56)

• Context vs. Content (84:38–86:35)

  • “We are going from an era of content to an era of context. What's more valuable now is not more content, it's more context.” (84:38)
  • Critique of pop anniversaries and commemorative content as ‘slow news’ filler.

• Vocal Inspirations for Voice Training (89:43–95:27)

  • Sam’s history with speech therapy and regional accent drift; George aspires for “a neutral voice that only sounds slightly sophisticated.” (91:26)
  • Both reflect on what it means to have an audio identity as a podcaster and comedian.

• Being a Gay Guy Who Likes Indie Rock (96:10–97:49)

  • Callers worry they must give up indie rock for pop—Sam: “You have to let go of indie rock for five years…then you have to find your way back home once you've fully immersed yourself.” (96:44)
  • George disagrees, finding it “one of the most ethical things you can be.”

7. Closing Bits: Absurdist Questions and Ending on a Whimper (98:50–105:16)

• The Zach Braff Concussion Thought Experiment

  • “If Zach Braff died of 35 million concussions tomorrow, there would be so much in his obit.” (99:43)

• Media Once Loved, Now Hated (again)

  • Sam: “I never liked Flubber. I was gaslit into having to tell people that I liked Flubber.” (102:59)
  • Take: “Those actors are not safe for children...should be for adults.” (George, 104:11)
  • Spice World: “When you rewatch it, it is long as fuck...make a compilation of all the amazing bits in it and cut out all that fucking filler.” (Sam, 104:41)

• The episode closes with congratulations to the editor for handling the chaos, thanks to callers/listeners, and the classic “get back to work” sign-off.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “There is a toxic desire among all to pit gay podcasters against each other.”
  — Sam Taggart (18:17)
• “Lily Allen is a bad girl. She’s a psycho…She is not some innocent wifey…”
  — George Civeris (23:16)
• “If you’re just pop singer, you have a bachelor’s. Girly is your master’s, and diva is your PhD.”
  — George (43:00)
• “Protein is something that is so classic, it's like seeing the American flag is trending.”
  — George (51:29)
• “That feeling when general knowledge is not one of the skills.”
  — Sam (62:15)
• “It’s true. That was the original Girlboss. You know, they keep inventing archetypes so they can tear women down.”
  — George (100:43)
• “I never liked Flubber. I was gaslit into having to tell people that I liked Flubber.”
  — Sam (102:59)
• “Those actors are not safe for children. Those actors should be for adults.”
  — George (104:11)

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Topic Timestamps

• [04:06] - Setting the mood, weather, Halloween costumes
• [17:05] - Lily Allen/David Harbour breakup discussion
• [27:42] - Performing in front of hot audience members
• [31:18] - Media formerly loved, now hated
• [35:02] - Is Lorde a gay pop diva? Pop taxonomy
• [44:16] - Protein: straight or gay?
• [52:35] - What are you reading?
• [55:38] - Charli XCX’s hypothetical Oscar role
• [61:50] - Dating someone hot but dumb
• [74:16] - Pop girls with cross-demographic appeal
• [79:52] - Heimlich/Muna/Boygenius “triads”
• [84:38] - Content vs. context
• [86:46] - Tyra Banks' "hot ice cream"/repetitive memes
• [89:43] - Vocal inspirations and voice training
• [96:10] - Indie rock vs. pop for gay men
• [98:50] - Zach Braff concussions
• [102:59] - Flubber, Spice World, media reconsidered

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Tone & Style

• Fast-paced, banter-driven, highly self-aware, and reflexively meta.
• A blend of high-camp and academic rigor, filtered through dry, resigned millennial humor.
• Willingness to get personal, admit to pet peeves, and acknowledge their own performance in real-time.
• Frequent callbacks and in-jokes (“content vs. context,” “do you like penises?”).

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For New Listeners

This episode is quintessential StraightioLab: irreverent, tangential, emotionally honest, and deeply plugged into queer and pop cultural currents. With their trademark blend of first-person candor and withering critique, George and Sam turn even the simplest listener questions into far-reaching, hilarious mini-essays about what it means to move through culture as a not-totally-straight person in 2025.

Transcript

[Caller]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[George Severis]

Listen to your elders, honey. You might know them from their viral videos, but now the old gays are pulling back the curtain with their podcast Silver Linings with the Old Gays, brought to you in partnership with iHeart's Ruby Studio and Veiv Healthcare. Hosts Robert, Mick, Bill and Jesse share their favorite pride, memories and the importance of celebrating all year long in in honor of Palm Springs Pride. So check out Silver Linings with the Old gays on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.

[Sam Taggart]

Don'T trust much of anything.

[George Severis]

It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people. We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.

[Sam Taggart]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there.

[George Severis]

NBC News reporting for America.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through November 4th. Shop the annual beauty event and save $5 when you spend $25 on select beauty products. Shop in store or online for items like Dove Body Wash, Native Body Wash, Cetaphil gentle skin cleanser, Dr. Squatch body wash, Neutrogena Hydro Boost Water Gel, Dial Liquid Hand Soap and Olay Body wash. And say $5 when you spend $25 or more November 4th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details. I'm Scott Hansen, host of NFL Red Zone. Lowe's knows Sundays hit different when you earn them. We've got you covered with outdoor power.

[George Severis]

Equipment from Cobalt and everything you need.

[Ryan Seacrest]

To weatherproof your deck with Trex Decking. Plus, with lawn care from Scotts and of course Pit Boss grills and accessories, you can get a home field advantage all season long. So get to Lowe's, get it done.

[George Severis]

And earn your Sunday.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Lowe's Official Partner of the NFL.

[George Severis]

Hootie Hoo. This is George with a very special announcement. First of all, my debut stand up comedy special is coming out officially on December 2nd. It will be available to rent or purchase on Amazon and Apple and various other websites. But that is not what I'm here to announce because it is not available yet. I am merely saying that because I wanted to tell everyone that I am having a big special release show at the Bell house in Brooklyn, New York on December 3rd. That is the day after the special comes out. So come to the Bellhouse. Come celebrate. It'll be a big show. It'll be like a Georgian Friends style show with some extra special guests and surprises. And if you buy tickets now, then you won't have to buy them later when I announce the lineup publicly. So you heard it here first. Bell House December 3rd special release Georgian friends show. And then the second thing is that Sam and I are doing a sort of last minute kind of industry adjacent show, a special edition Stradio Lab live at On Air Fest in Los Angeles on November 11th. It is a podcast festival and there are a few tickets set aside for sort of the GA general admission crowd. If you don't professionally work in podcasting, you can still see us do our thang. So in conclusion, come to my special release show at the Bell House in Brooklyn on December 3rd and if you're in LA, come see us at On Airfest on November 11th. The tickets for that are on the Bellhouse web website on my link tree on the Straighter Lab linktree honey, if you look for them, you'll find them. Enjoy the show.

[Sam Taggart]

Podcast starts now. Hello all, we are coming at you bi coastally. Once again, our New York records have officially ended. We did six weeks of New York recordings.

[George Severis]

We did six weeks of New York recordings. And now you know also I have to say those recordings were recorded during such an optimistic time. We were both in such good moods. We were frolic frocking around various food trucks in the Dumbo Brooklyn area. It was pretty much still summer in the sense that it was, you know, September. Yeah, and now I am. First of all, let's get this out of the way. I'm sick. It's okay, you don't have semi flowers. But it is what it is. I have what is known in the medical community as brain fog. It is absolutely kicking my ass. I'm taking 15 minutes to complete one sentence. So that's one thing, jot that down. Second thing, it is a gloomy New York day. I would say the light that is reflecting on my face is the color gray.

[Sam Taggart]

I have to say I still follow a New York weather account. And it every day says 10 out of 10 sunny and 75. And today it was 2 out of 10 torrential downpours, miserable energy, avoid at all costs. And I was like, I really want to come back to New York. And I really forget, like I'm like scared for that moment when you're like damn, today is just miserable. There's no way around it.

[George Severis]

You know what though? It is however, there is something so almost. There's this sort of joy in the self flagellation of just being like, I can't do anything. I'm basically Sylvia Plath. And I'm gonna sit here and just sort of sink deeper and deeper into my couch and just be depressed doing emails. I'm gonna make tea, but then forget the teabag in the tea thing and then have one sip and be like, this is absolutely disgusting. And then throw it out and be like, you know what? I should get into tea. Finally. I can't keep only drinking tea. That's from the grocery store. But it's like, that is such a high bar to entry. So then, of course, you start Googling tea. Next thing you know, you have 17 tabs open and you're like, I wonder what my ex is up to. And then you go on his Instagram, et cetera, et cetera.

[Sam Taggart]

No, I think what's so at least in new. When it's cloudy, rainy and you're in a bad mood and you're like, well, of course I'm in a bad mood. It's cloudy, rainy today. Let's be upfront. I'm in a horrible mood for seemingly. I guess the reason is because I slept badly and it's Sunny and about 85 degrees outside. I simply have no excuse. I was mad that it was too sunny. I was mad that it was nice out. And I'm like, now this has to stop. You can't. The way that LA is turning me against sunny, summery weather is shocking. I used to pray for Disney.

[George Severis]

Yes, well, exactly. Because what LA does is infuse sunny, summery weather with a sort of like, grim film noir element.

[Sam Taggart]

It's like.

[George Severis]

It's like, did you. It's very like David Lynch. It's like, did you know that actually when it's sunny, that's because there's darkness in the world and this is hiding it.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it's really, really bleak.

[George Severis]

And I'm glad you mentioned being in a bad mood because we are honestly both in pretty terrible moods today. And I'm feeling there's a. There's a part of me that wants to address each of our bad moods. Or for me to be like, what's wrong? Is everything okay? Blah, blah. But I'm kind of like, put your own mask on first. I'm literally like, I can't think of anyone else's bad mood except my own.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, and I just want to add to what's going on with me is that. So this will come out after Halloween so I can say this now and it won't be a spoiler, which. Why would it be a spoiler? Who Do I think I am? But for Halloween, Misha and I have decided. First we were like, we're gonna be Cam and Mitch. How funny. I bought a red wig. I got red dye for my. And I'm growing my beard. Misha's got, like, a contrast cuff, loud shirt.

[George Severis]

Oh, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And so we're like, okay, that's so fun. And then we put the costumes on roughly. And I was like, wait. I kind of just like a normal guy in a red wig. Of course. And then it's like, okay, wait. And we were talking to some people, and they were like, what if you're sexy, Cam and Mitch? And I was like, now that's funny. And so I was like, okay, so it's the same costume, but with sock garters on and maybe plain boxers on.

[George Severis]

That's really good.

[Sam Taggart]

But still V neck sweater and collared shirt up top for me. But then I've been on various websites all morning. I can't find sock garters for the life of me.

[George Severis]

What?

[Sam Taggart]

They don't have? Like, there are none in Los Angeles that I can find. And Amazon, sorry, is not delivering until Saturday.

[George Severis]

This is, of course, one of those things where my instinct is to Google it and think I'm going to find it in two seconds. And it's like, no, you're smart. You've tried. You've tried what I'm about to try.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, there is. I could look up men's suiting stores and call them and be like, do you have these? But it feels like such a niche product at this point. Or even I'm like, sex stores. Has it just gone into full kinkwear where the sock garter for men.

[George Severis]

Don't you think so? I mean, I understand. I understand the desire for a sock order, but there are other ways to make a costume sexy. I think if you can't find one, you will find other ways to pull off the iconic costume sexy. Cam and Mitch, of course, it's just.

[Sam Taggart]

A Soccer would really sell it.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Are you going to have a lily?

[Sam Taggart]

No, because we wanted to have, like, you know, we're going to a house party first. So we were like, oh, we should, like, bring a bottle of something wrapped up in a baby blanket. But then we were worried that people would, like, if we posted a picture of us as Cam and Mitch with a baby. They would think it was a baby announcement.

[George Severis]

Right. I don't know if that many people would think that, but I respect it. I was more thinking that you were worried that libs of TikTok would pick it up and then it would be like, look, these gays think that having a child is kink.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, no, that's true. I mean, you're right. And I should let go of the sock garder. But I really committed to it in my mind.

[George Severis]

Yeah, no, I get it. And it is the perfect way to make. It's the perfect way for something to be kinky while also gesturing at preppy dad, which is basically what you're trying to do with. With your Mitch costume. Yeah, that's really good though. And I mean, Mitch is a little more challenging. But Cam, if you have one of those contrast cuff shirts, it's like so immediately clear what you're being.

[Sam Taggart]

I was honestly like jealous that Misha got to be Cam. And then I was like, we're both Cam. And then I was like, no, one of us has to be Mitch.

[George Severis]

It would be really funny if you were both.

[Sam Taggart]

Night of a thousand Cams.

[George Severis]

So basically this is a call in episode and we are having disagreements about which calls to take. Huge disagreements, huge disagreements to the point where I was actually like, we have to start recording, otherwise we'll get into a fight.

[Sam Taggart]

And it's kind of. This never happens to us.

[George Severis]

I know. It was a real. I mean, I think this has to do with both of us are not feeling great and are sleep deprived. I'm not going to get into it, but when you mentioned sleep problems, I wanted to also talk about how I've been having insane insomnia. Like last night I watched after we had watched TV and went to bed by myself. I watched five episodes of 30 Rock just in bed in the dark, like with my laptop there, which usually would put me to sleep. And I was just eyes wide open, staring into my. Into my screen. And this has not been happening for like a week. I'm just like being up until 4am not being able to fall asleep. And I think it's stress related and. And I don't know. Also the travel over the summer didn't help. But I'm so tired.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

So I like the idea of sort of reading through. We get so many calls and I want everyone to know that we put them all in a spreadsheet. Then based on our whims that day, we highlight some that we think are good. Then we end up doing whatever we feel like in the moment. There are are questions that keep getting asked over and over again and we are not sure if we've ever answered them. It also depends on our mood. Sometimes we want to do more advicey questions. Sometimes we want to do pop culture questions. Sometimes we want to do more like conceptual questions. What are the ones that were sticking out to you, I wonder?

[Sam Taggart]

I was preferring the ones that were sort of like either, like very open ended pop culture, I think. I don't like when it feels like a quiz.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And. And I also don't like when I feel like I have to, like, speak from huge authority because sometimes I find that to be like, I'm. Yeah, but I was liking the open ended pop culture ones, which is like, what are your thoughts on this? And I was also liking sort of the, like, maybe options. Like, I have. I have a choice. I can either do this or this. Which should I do? Like, that was really speaking to me because I was like, it feels easiest. Not that it's all about ease. I'm just sort of like, that was what was speaking to me. What was speaking to you.

[George Severis]

So here's what I think. Maybe this is a crutch I'm falling on, but I think people generally like recommendation culture right now. I have mixed feelings about how every single thing now is like, so and so's five favorite skincare products. So and so's five favorite movies, things you can't live without. Like, that, like, questionnaire that people do on Instagram that's like, things, things Amanda Seyfried loves and things Amanda Seyfried hates. Or like, the perfectly imperfect newsletter where it's like, all people recommending things and you have to do two things that are specific and then one thing that's like the feeling after a rain when you have a burger and you have to, like, be just Gary Bradshaw enough about it and be like, like, things you don't, like compulsory child rearing or whatever. And I think that adds enough structure. For example, we got a question that was like, what is the last truly perfect movie you watched? And I was like, oh, that's fun. Because it's limiting enough that I can go back through the movies I watched recently and just pick a few. And then you were like, why would anyone want to listen to me talk about how I thought one battle after another is good?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Everyone thinks it's good.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I was like, I'm not reinventing the wheel here. Like, I was kind of like, you could like to me in all respects to that caller. But I was like, the perfect. What I think is the perfect movie that I watched.

[George Severis]

Like, a perfect movie to me, I.

[Sam Taggart]

Was like, like, it's. I also think I'm sort of like, maybe I don't believe in. I think for some reason the phrasing of the question of, like, what is a perfect movie you watch is, like, stressing me out because it invites, like, people to be like, you thought that.

[George Severis]

Was perfect, but don't you love just recklessly having an opinion?

[Sam Taggart]

And maybe part of it is, like, I don't think I've ever thought any movie was perfect. Like. Like It's a Wonderful Life maybe, but I bet you could trim a couple mins. Like, I'm just sort of like, nothing's perfect.

[George Severis]

No, that's t. I was. I recently randomly watched Invasion of the Body Snatchers for the first time, the one with Donald Sutherland. And I guess I wouldn't say I had low expectations, but I was like, this is someone else. Matthew, put it on. I was like, all right, I guess we'll watch it. And then by the end, I was having such a good time and it was so simple and not trying to have a million twists and turns and really well shot in this sort of fun 70s, like, paranoia way. And then I also recently watched in the Mood for Love for the First Time. And so those were gonna be my two. Sorry, not interesting. And then the other. And wait, so you. You were drawn to. You were drawn to, for example, what celeb or what pop star right now has the gay men, gay women and straight women in the chokehold?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, and I thought the call behind that was very smart when I read through it a bit like, well, let's maybe do.

[George Severis]

How about we do our first. How about we do our first call and start there and then get the wheels turning?

[Sam Taggart]

Okay.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Caller]

Hi, Sam and George, My name is Casey. I'm calling from Massachusetts. My husband and I went to your Somerville show. We loved it. He was really not too familiar with your work until then, but he laughed the whole time. And I'll just say he was particularly charmed by. Sam, my question for you is interesting. There's a Lily Allen breakup album happening right now. It's amazing. Incredible. What was your perception of their relationship pre breakup and now with this album, post breakup, did you. I'm curious what the gay community thought, particularly of David Harbour during his height of, like, people loving this sad dad thing. And now knowing what we know now, have things changed at all? Thanks for your thoughts and your amazing podcast.

[George Severis]

Bye.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, what can you say? Straight guys love me.

[George Severis]

It was such an interesting choice to include in a call that, you know, it had it all. It was complimentary. You're building up to a great, relevant question to want to Immediately create a rift between us by saying your straight husband liked Sam Moore.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, this is. There is a toxic desire among all to pit gay podcasters against each other.

[George Severis]

It's so the phrasing of. And I'll just say. Don't just say.

[Sam Taggart]

Don't say.

[George Severis]

He was especially charmed by Sam. Why would you just say that?

[Sam Taggart]

Why would you say that?

[George Severis]

Someone recently commented on a. On one of our clips with Adam Friedland and was like, it's my duty to say. I was like, no, it's not. Shut the hell up.

[Sam Taggart]

Shut up.

[George Severis]

Okay. What do you. Obviously, David Harbour is so comically your type that it is even a cliche to bring him up.

[Sam Taggart]

So David Harbour is a huge sex symbol in the bear community. It is not just me, of course, that finds him hot. It is anyone who finds bears hot. He's on bear fan pages constantly and it's very interesting for the bears. I don't think this is going to make a splash. I think everyone will still want to have sex with him. For the general public. I'm interested how you feel, George, about will people turn on him.

[George Severis]

I am so confused about where we are as a mainstream straight leaning culture on men and women right now. And I'm saying that in complete earnestness. There is, I believe, this very kind of predictable but grim backlash against. It started out as being a backlash against, quote, unquote, girlboss culture, which I hate to use a word that has never literally meant anything. It is something that from the beginning was a punchline that the book Girlboss by Sofia Amoruso came out and immediately was a punchline. This idea that we have in retrospect, that at one point we were in the girl boss era and now we're not, is stupid and only people who write for digital media believe it. So wake the fuck up and be an adult. So anyway, first it started as a backlash against girl boss culture, which is in its own way completely like veiled misogyny and sexism. Then it became a backlash in an even more dark way against, like, me too, because of course, like, people were like, very confused how to act. And so then, you know, you suddenly had like the random babe.net article about Aziz, which everyone felt weird about. And so then every. The waters got muddied so much that basically anytime. Anytime a woman speaks now, she sort of is like, not quite trusted. Would you agree?

[Sam Taggart]

I would agree. I think we're in a really complicated spot. And this particular drama is. Is interesting too, because it's like both new and Old?

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, it's like sort of a cheating scandal, which is classic vintage. She's not necessarily saying, like, he abused me. She's saying, like, he was like, a horrible partner and we've had a miserable couple of years and that makes it old. But then it's new because it's like, well, we were open, so it wasn't, like, fully illegal. And, like, it was just like, he broke the rules of our open agreement.

[George Severis]

Yeah. There's something very, very now about it.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And there's also something very sorry. Aging millennial about it. It is so. Lily Allen is such a classic millennial voice. And, you know, I hate to talk about generations, but you just have to. She is someone who could only be the exact age. She is.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. For sure.

[George Severis]

So when we were talking about, like, the status of David Harbour, I'm like, I don't think the quote, unquote, cancellation of a man has the same weight that it did in 2018. 2019.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

But at the same time, this album is clearly making a big impact.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

But in my world, I'm seeing it more as you go, girl. Lily Allen than David Harbour is an asshole.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I think it's you go, girl.

[George Severis]

It's almost beside the point who he is.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. It's like, interest. It adds a level of intrigue that it's someone famous that we all can just recognize instantly. But it's not. It doesn't. It's not the whole story. It is more like you did that thing you got out of there and your body looks amazing. I do feel like that's. We're not talking about that. That's part of the album rollout is like, her being like. And also look at how my body looks. Amazing.

[George Severis]

No. Yes. She's almost leaning into this sort of imperfect victim narrative in a way that I actually find kind of fun, because Lily Allen is an insane person.

[Sam Taggart]

Always has been.

[George Severis]

Lily Allen is not some innocent wifey who was so optimistic about this relationship, and she's always been looking for love. And then she got her heartbroken. Lily Allen is a psycho.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. She's a bad girl.

[George Severis]

She is a bad girl. She's a psycho. She's done insane things in the past. She, I would say, partially owns it. I think, for example, she's openly being like, well, I was the bad person in my previous marriage, so I was able to relate to him, whatever. But then she hasn't, quote, unquote, owned some of the other insane shit she has said over the years. She's very much a Classic celeb who is on social media, whether it's podcasting, whether it's the whole stunt she did where she ran her own only feet or whatever.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, sure, sure, sure.

[George Severis]

Is that what that website's called?

[Sam Taggart]

Wiki. Wikifeet.

[George Severis]

Wikifeet. Not only feed.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, I am impressed with the whole album in general. I think if we're just talking about broad broadly. I'm sort of like. I think we had. We both talked about how, like, it's both like, very interesting. And you're like. The first few listens, you're like, wow, this is great. And then you were saying that you, like, kind of feel gross now.

[George Severis]

Well, I find. Wait, sorry. One more thing about David Harbour is that he has a sort of evil looking face.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And I actually sort of think part of his appeal is this kind of villainous energy. And so I think, if anything, in terms of my attraction to him, for example, this album is not making me less attracted to him or making him less of a desirable object. If you are prone to be attracted to him. If anything, I'm like, wow, it's so hot that he had a bag of dildos or whatever accused him of having.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Butt plugs and stuff and lube. And I'm literally like, wait, were you using them on yourself? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I lube. So wait. Sorry, but you asked me a question. Oh, yes. I feel like there is something about the entire album, the entire album being about the same thing. And I know that it has a narrative arc to some extent, but honestly, it's mostly that every song is about the same thing. And you know what? It almost feels like. It almost feels like being waterboarded with pornography. It reminded me of the Gooner article where I was like, yes, in small doses, it's really cathartic to listen to Lily Allen say, fuck this guy. And he did this to me. And he did this to me. But to listen to that for 15 songs straight sort of makes you want to do something else.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, no, it can feel a little. It's just so confessional that I'm sort of like, you let a recording studio hear you do this.

[George Severis]

Right. And I sort of respect that. She is not. She's kind of avoid. Well, I haven't listened to the final songs that many times to remember, but I don't think she. She's sort of avoiding like a catharsis at the end or like an empowerment narrative. Right. Like, it's really just like, you're an asshole. You're an asshole. You're an asshole. You're an asshole. The end.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Which I do respect. Like, totally. Something like Lemonade, while being more artful, is also more calculated and can feel too overwritten.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Whereas this one really does feel like she just, like, put it all out there. Yeah, I respect that. I respect Shout out to an extent. Yeah. So final thoughts on David Harbour. You know we would both still have sex with him. Probably.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Send nudes. David Harbour. I will do whatever you want.

[George Severis]

And Lily Allen, it's like, you know, if nothing else, I'm like, good for you for still getting lips a flappin.

[Sam Taggart]

I fully agree.

[George Severis]

I'm kind of like, you know, obviously I'm holding you at arm's length and I would never want to be your close personal friend because I know you would ultimately betray me and then potentially post screenshots of our text. But that said, you are kind of one of the OGs. And I loved Lily Allen when I was a teen. And as much as I am being a little mean to her, I get defensive if someone else is mean to her.

[Sam Taggart]

Of course. You've earned it.

[George Severis]

She's kind of a legend.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, she is.

[George Severis]

And I didn't know people cared so much about her. I was like, she's one of those people to me that I'm like, isn't it weird that I listened to Lily Allen when I was like, 17, whatever, 14.

[Sam Taggart]

It's. It's one of those things where I'm also surprised that everyone knows her. But I celebrate it.

[Caller]

Hey, Sam and George. Love you girls. Great seeing you.

[George Severis]

Love you down.

[Caller]

My question is for stand up comedians, which you guys are.

[George Severis]

Clock it.

[Caller]

When you're at like a really intimate venue, or any venue, I guess, and you're performing in front of someone that is just like so hot and sexy and you're like, you wanna maybe them? Does it like, improve your performance or do you flop? And. Yeah, I'm just curious what it's like behind the scenes. All right. Love you.

[Sam Taggart]

Love you too. I try to remain professional for the most part, but it does distract me. I will say I do notice, like, if there's someone like, you know, a lot of venues, it depends on the lighting. Sometimes you can see the audience very clearly and sometimes you can't see them at all. And when you can see someone who's like, very hot and there's like, I am like, so what's your deal? Like, there's. There's a part of me that's like, what's your deal? And I know. Like, you know, it's. I know nothing can happen. You know, I'm on stage, they're in the audience. That's like a barrier that can't be broken.

[George Severis]

I like that going through your head. You're like, okay, okay, like, we could hook up now. Wait, no, I'm on stage.

[Sam Taggart]

But I'm like, there's something. But I do have. I have one story, George, about this, where one time I was doing, like, my very first, like, solo show at the Annoyance Theater in Brooklyn, New York, and it was, like a mixture of characters and standup, and I did a character that. And right at the beginning, where I talked to an audience member, I picked an audience member, and there was a hot person there who, you know, I think I've told you this story, and.

[George Severis]

I'll say, oh, yes, you have. You have.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Okay. And I called on him, and he immediately was, like, mad at me. Like, right at the start, mad at me. And I was like, damn, I shouldn't have called on the one person that I found hot. And it was, like, the first bit in the show, and it did kind of ruin it slightly.

[George Severis]

I actually think that's very you because you like giving yourself a challenge.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Because you know that's not gonna go as well as picking, like, a random ugly person. It's so classic.

[Sam Taggart]

It is classic. I was trying to have my cake and eat it, too, honestly.

[George Severis]

Yeah. I feel like when I see a hot person in the audience, this is so humiliating. But rather than thinking, wow, I'm in a position of power because I'm the one with the mic and they really like me, and that's why they paid to see me. I'm thinking the exact opposite, which is I'm thinking, I'm the theater kid, loser on stage, and this person is sitting there with their arms crossed being like, what the hell does this idiot have to say? I'm going to go to football practice after I revert back to high school dynamics, where I'm like, you're the hot person and I'm the loser that is trying a draft of my art project on stage.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[George Severis]

So I'm not. I don't love when there are hot people that I can see from stage, and it does not in any way turn me on. What I do enjoy is a hot person potentially talking to me afterwards and complimenting the show, potentially sitting in the back so I don't see them as I'm performing and then coming up to me afterwards. I'll enjoy that.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that's nice.

[George Severis]

And that's why we do it.

[Sam Taggart]

That's why we do it folks.

[George Severis]

So wait, I want to just quickly say one of the ones we disagreed on is what is a piece of media we loved in our youth that we now hate? And I want to say get ready because this is a shocking thing to say. I tried rewatching Austin Powers recently and really could not get into it, which is crazy.

[Sam Taggart]

Such a bitch. You knew that would hurt my feelings and you're saying that to hurt my feelings.

[George Severis]

I almost want to try again because I think maybe I was in a bad mood. And then the other one, which I think I've talked about before is the movie Rat Race. I have a memory of loving and I watched it recently just stone faced.

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[George Severis]

Listen to your elders, honey. You might know them from their viral videos, but now the old gays pull back the curtain on their podcast Silver Linings with the Old Gays, brought to you in partnership with iHeart's Ruby Studio and Veeve Healthcare for a very special bonus episode. Hosts Robert, Mick, Bill and Gisea talk about how pride has evolved over the years and their favorite memories, all in celebration of Palm Springs Pride. Because pride should be celebrated all year round. Listen in to these fabulous friends swap stories exploring how queer life has evolved over the decades and the silver linings they've collected along the way. Each episode dives into hot topics from safe sex and online dating to untangling Gen Z lingo, as well as insights on how music, art and fashion show up in queer culture. So check out Silver Linings, a show about how pride ages like Fine wine available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[George Severis]

I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.

[Sam Taggart]

Don'T trust much of anything.

[George Severis]

It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people. We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little.

[Sam Taggart]

NBC news brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there.

[George Severis]

NBC News reporting for America.

[Caller]

Hey, my name is Jeff. And my name is Connor. Long time, gay guys, first time callers. We're calling today because of a debate that is absolutely tearing our friend group apart. We want to know, is Lord a gay pop diva? I think Lorde is 100% absolutely a gay pop diva, but I think she's not there yet. Now, we agree that Charlie, Mariah, Aretha, for example, are gay pop divas. And we also agree that Dua, Lipa Pink, and Alanis Morissette are not gay pop divas. We have all kinds of arguments either way, but we don't want to give them to you because we want to sway your decision. But if we keep talking about this, our friends are going to kill us. So we need to call in professional help from the girls. So please, please, please respond. We need this debate settled. Thank you so much, diva. We'll talk soon. Bye. Love you, diva.

[Sam Taggart]

Love you, divas. This is so interesting. You know, it's. It's. I'm feeling a little bit like when someone tells you who they are, believe them. And I'm like, so you think Dua Lipa is not a gay pop diva? And I'm supposed to sort of listen to your rankings. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. If she's not a gay pop diva, then what is she?

[George Severis]

A pop singer.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God.

[George Severis]

I'm sorry. But this is like, you know, this is like how everyone is overusing iconic and legend and blah, blah, blah. I was, you know, One of my pet peeves is, like, when people Are like, happy birthday to this New York darling. It's like, what the hell are you talking about? That is Jason.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

So I like Dua Lipa, but, you know, give her. She's still cooking.

[Sam Taggart]

I couldn't disagree more. I'm like, Dua Lipa. Like, with future nostalgia alone, I think she, like, has made an impact that is so big and is so specifically like, for, like, the gay community.

[George Severis]

Listen, I love Dua Lipa. I need more vulnerability if I'm going to call her a gay pop diva. The whole point of being a gay pop diva is that you are. You have this narrative of being the underdog and then persevering you have gone through, and I understand that.

[Sam Taggart]

Does Kylie Minogue give vulnerability?

[George Severis]

Well, she's Australian and she had cancer, so how about you check yourself? Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm not seeing vulnerable from her. I'm seeing perfection.

[George Severis]

Listen. Okay, hold on. So you're saying you don't trust the people that made this call because they don't think Dua Lipa is a gay. A gay pop diva.

[Sam Taggart]

That's what I'm saying.

[George Severis]

But that actually doesn't really answer their question, which anyone can ask whether or not you agree with their opinions or not, which is, Is Lorde a gay pop diva? I hate this, by the way. This is an example of a question you like and I don't like.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my gosh, why don't you like it?

[George Severis]

Because it doms us into being, like, chatty gay guys.

[Sam Taggart]

But that's what we are.

[George Severis]

I know.

[Sam Taggart]

It's one part of us. We have a multifaceted personality.

[George Severis]

Is Lord a gay pop diva?

[Sam Taggart]

I don't know. I think. I kind of think. The thing is, I think you have to, like, consent to being a gay pop diva. Like, and I don't know if she's consenting to that. I think that, like, I think that's sort of why. What I'm talking about with, like, Dua Lipa, honestly, is like, she's like. I think she kind of considers herself a gay pop diva. Like, and Lorde is sort of being like, lord thinks she's the Strokes. She's not, but she thinks she is. And so that to me, like, seeing her concert in Vegas famously was to die for. Let's start there. But she really wants to be like, I'm a. I'm a. Like, I'm just like you. Like, I'm like, yes, I'm up here. Yes, I write these songs, but I'm merely a reflection of you. And I'm like, I don't see myself as larger than life. I see myself as life. And, and so I'm like, I think, I don't, I think no, because she doesn't think yes.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I would say, I would say I'm sorry to this group chat. I would say self evidently, no is the correct answer. I just don't think that is what she is striving to be or accomplishing being. And I also think part of the gay pop diva thing is obviously overcoming adversity and at some point being an underdog and being crucified by the media, whatever. But then another part of it is being kind of like difficult and having literally diva behavior. I mean, that is why Mariah Carey is a diva. That is why Madonna is a diva. That's the whole. And Beyonce, not to say she's difficult and that she's like, treats people poorly, but difficult in the sense that she's famously particular and is always with the laptop and calling the shots. You gotta have some of that energy. And I think the pure joy of a dua lipa or the pure emo ness of Lord is not quite there. You gotta sort of combine it all and come out and become like cherry. Sure, sure.

[Sam Taggart]

But that doesn't mean gay guys don't like Lorde. It just means.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm even like, is what gay pop diva maybe. You know what? I'm being so old fashioned. I'm kind of being old gay guy that is at the gay bar and is like reminiscing about the 80s. Like to me a gay pop diva is a very specific thing. I don't even think Charlie is a gay pop diva. And I'm not saying that as a knock to her. I love Charlie. But I, I think you, you need. It's a specific thing.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, that I think that is, I think to fully answer this question, we would have to define what is a gay pop diva. Because I think that's where the disagreement is coming in is that we have not defined the term.

[George Severis]

Well, I would say that a gay pop diva is kind of dangerously close to the definition of a glamour girl, which is someone who is glamorous, wounded and seeking truth.

[Sam Taggart]

But there's the added definition of like. And also is known for belting.

[George Severis]

Totally. Oh, that's true.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Like, does a gay pop diva need to be a vocalist? I would argue probably yes.

[Sam Taggart]

I would argue probably yes. Whereas maybe a gay pop girlie doesn't belt.

[George Severis]

Wow, that's a really good point. And in fact, I actually do think that's why the phrase gay pop girly was sort of on the rise is because there was a crop of these girlies that were not quite diva status.

[Sam Taggart]

Yet, and they don't want to be. They're not looking to be.

[George Severis]

And also, I gotta say, there's an age element to the diva thing too. I'm a little bit, like, graduating towards diva status means, oh, you're about to age into Vegas residency.

[Sam Taggart]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[George Severis]

It is too early. Even if Lord was going for a Mariah thing, which she obviously is not, it is too early to. To graduate her into diva.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, diva is your master's.

[George Severis]

That's right. And, you know.

[Sam Taggart]

Or PhD.

[George Severis]

Girly is your master's. Girly is your master's, and diva is your PhD.

[Sam Taggart]

See, you got somewhere.

[George Severis]

If you're just pop singer. You have a bachelor's.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

And I do think dua, for the record, has a Master's.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm glad we can agree.

[George Severis]

Yes, she might be doing her PhD. When you do a PhD, part of it is getting a Master's. Like, anyone who gets a Ph.D. also gets a master's. So I think Dua is on the Ph.D. track, potentially. But she's presented her master's season. Everyone's saying, this is promising. Can't wait to see how you make it into your monogram Monogram monograph. Anyway, so since we're talking about the.

[Sam Taggart]

Podcast, when we make the podcast, I have to say, see, that's why I like questions like that.

[George Severis]

Oh, shut up.

[Sam Taggart]

Because what you're forgetting is that we will put. Put the pop star diva question through our lens and we make it our own.

[George Severis]

Whereas you think if I were to ask you what is a piece of me that you loved in your youth that you now hate? Nothing would come out of that conversation. It would be very straightforward, and your answer would just be Titanic.

[Sam Taggart]

George, when I say my answer would be, well, nothing, because I respect the child that I was and the journey that I had.

[George Severis]

Well, there you go.

[Sam Taggart]

That's not a fun answer. Oh, stop avoiding the question.

[Caller]

Hey, Jay. Guys, calling from Miami. Yeah, yeah, you're jealous. No, I know, I know. Nobody likes Miami. But my question, actually, I have two questions. Protein, proteins everywhere. And I think we haven't really heard from you guys about protein. And if it's gay or what, I think it's straight in an obvious way, but. But you guys always come up with new perspectives, and that's what we listen. And then. Yeah, never mind. That's going to be my only question. Bye. Love you. Guys keep doing great work saving the world.

[George Severis]

Something I love about gay guys is, myself included, is that they will be giving you a straightforward compliment. But the tone of voice is like, but I could change my mind at any second.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it's comforting. It keeps me in line.

[George Severis]

Is protein gay or straight?

[Sam Taggart]

This is so complex because protein is everywhere. We all know this. This is not a hot take. It is just like when there's protein cold foam at Starbucks, you have to take a step back. I mean, for me, I'm literally being like, okay, then what is protein? Where are they getting all this stuff? What mine is this coming from? I guess I have no understanding of what protein is. If you can just put it in anything. I find it like it's, there's like a, a curve or something where it's like, I think 10 years ago protein was very straight and it was like the, the stereotype of like the guy with the jug of creatine powder and that's like the only food he has in his kitchen. And it's like the straightest guy in the world.

[George Severis]

And then like muscle milk. Muscle milk, like muscle milk is such a classic kind of straight phrase. Straight word combination.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. And even the branding of muscle milk, it was very masculine. And there was something like, where it was like, this is for straight guys, this, this whole system. And now it's turning into like, like again, Starbucks cold foam with protein. And I'm like, it's becoming queer for.

[George Severis]

Yoga girls, becoming feminized. I mean, basically what happened with protein just on a literal level, sorry to absolutely blow the alarm on this, is that the way capitalism works is that one market was cornered. Fully all men were into protein. So then they were like, how do we expand this market? We feminize protein and make it also for women. And then suddenly you have goop and Gwyneth Paltrow promoting cottage cheese pancakes and Starbucks cold foam. That's advertised by some brain dead influen. And you know you have like, I don't know, you can put proteins in your protein powder in your. What's the smoothie place in la and your earwan smoothie. That's literally what it is. Yeah, that's what happened. And you all fell for it. And where gay people come in is that there are both men and women who are gay, which is interesting. And so they are implicated in this.

[Sam Taggart]

They are implicated in this. I will say I still on the whole think it is actually more straight male to have the big jug of protein powder in your kitchen. But gay guys do do it.

[George Severis]

Well, yes, the protein powder and the protein maxing is obviously very straight. But an attention to protein is also very like just mom. Like it's, it's kind of like following you know what's very straight? The food pyramid. Like that. Like believing in and following the food pyramid and making three plates for your three boys and making sure they get their chicken and their broccoli and their rice. That is also very mom and straight. Yeah, food is complicated obviously because it is such a third rail. It's like I feel like honestly in a post cancel culture world, food is still the one thing I don't quite know how to talk about because people are obsessed with pathologizing everything either. Accusing you of having an eating disorder, accusing you of in terms of meat, veganism, dietary restrictions, accusing you of being unethical in whatever way they believe. In that one moment if you are too ethical then suddenly you're like a blue haired leftist cuckoo.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

So this is like I do find that nutrition wise, it is an interesting question. What is a straight versus gay outlook on nutrition? Like what do you think?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, this is like such, not to be completely insane but I'm like this is why we need our institutions back. We literally need a standard of eating that is like so this is sort of what you should. The food pyramid has fallen and we need to rebuild it because we need just like here's sort of what you should be shooting for. It's neither good nor bad, it's just average. Like feel free to have some of this, have some of that. And instead it's like everyone is polarized in their eating in ways that are insane.

[George Severis]

I know it's. But again it goes back to marketing and moving product. Like the reason all of this is happening is just so that people are so confused that they are, are convinced into doing whatever Procter and Gamble wants them to do. And by the way, if the government were to step into making new food pyramid, do you know who that would be? RFK Jr.

[Sam Taggart]

I know it's not fair. We need good government. I want government issued meals.

[George Severis]

Oh my God. It's literally my number one dream.

[Sam Taggart]

I would love that.

[George Severis]

Well, what's interesting about protein also is this is a known fact that people say when they're sort of debunking the protein craze in general, Americans on average do get enough protein. It's not one of the things we need more of on average. And so it's a strange thing to have so much emphasis on. To me, the reason why I became sort of obsessed with protein over the last couple years because I was like, ooh, I'm experimenting with working out more and it's fun to. I want to gain muscle.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

I never thought of it as something I'm doing for my general health. It was always a vanity thing.

[Sam Taggart]

You know, I've heard that the next big craze is going to be fiber.

[George Severis]

Yes. No, everyone has been saying that.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. It's the thing. Gay appropriation, once again.

[George Severis]

I know. No, I have straight women in my life who have borrowed back when I would take Pure for Men have borrowed my Pure for Men pills because they are apparently because they thought they were better than other fiber pills. I do think that's been debunked, unfortunately. I think it's the exact same as any other formula.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I'm just taking the Metamucil now. What do you think?

[George Severis]

We need to move on. But maybe there's no time for us to actually go into this. But I'm interested in the process of something normal and conventional becoming a trend. Because there are trends that are new, unique, updated things. A trend could be tiny sunglasses. I'm not saying that's new and has just been invented, but that is something that you didn't see as much of before and now you're seeing more of. But protein is something that is so classic, it's like seeing the American flag is trending. It is something that is so classic that it really takes a big push to make it into a trend.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And I think maybe that's what's straight about it. To me, a gay trend has to be something niche that then enters the mainstream. But a straight trend, it's like the lack of imagination. You have to. Have to think. Protein is an interesting thing to promote.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

It'S very Thursday nights on NBC.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, in that case, I love it.

[George Severis]

It period. How you doing? Okay, next call.

[Caller]

Hi, Sam, did you ever finish the shards? And George, what are you reading? Okay, love you. Bye.

[Sam Taggart]

I did finish the shards last week, two weeks ago. I really enjoyed it. I felt like it was. I haven't read like a quote unquote page turner in a while. In that one, I felt like a little kid again, kind of glued to the book. And I will say it didn't end as satisfyingly as I had hoped. And that's all I'll say about that. I loved everything leading up to that.

[George Severis]

Did it make you want to read more? Brett Easton Ellis?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I actually did kind of like his vibe. It's my first Brett Easton Ellis book.

[George Severis]

It's such a hard one to start with because it's like, I feel like it's his longest.

[Sam Taggart]

It was long as hell, but it hit. It was juicy.

[George Severis]

I am actually rereading a book, which I'm ashamed to say I do very rarely.

[Sam Taggart]

I have very rarely.

[George Severis]

I have this need for newness at all times, even though I really think that much like the second sip of a wine is more complex than the first sip. I think the second time you read a book often you get way more out of it than the first. But I am. What?

[Sam Taggart]

No, that's amazing. I think that's great.

[George Severis]

I am rereading this book called Satin island by Tom McCarthy. It's very my interest circa 2015 when I first picked it up. It's about someone who is a corporate anthropologist. So his job is to study human behavior for a company that then sells products to them. And he's working on the great report, which is basically a report on the behavior of the entire world, but it's very sort of weird and avant garde and sort of post, post, post, post. The reason I was inspired to reread it is because, as listeners of the podcast might know, I was rereading, or I was reading for the first time, this book of Zadie Smith essays that contained this famous essay she wrote that was called Two Directions for the Novel or something, or Two Ways for the Novel. And one of them was sort of a conventional realist novel with a bunch of different characters and different themes. And then the other one was this super weird novel called Remainder by the same author, which I've also read and I liked less. And so that inspired me to reread this book. And while we're on the topic of books, I just want to very quickly say we got another call asking us to recommend books that are similar to the Secret History. And I guess I would say, what about Brideshead Revisited, which is kind of the OG Secret History?

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, I've never read that.

[George Severis]

And also, if you want a book set in academia, I love the book Lucky Jim by Kingsley Amos.

[Sam Taggart]

Next call, Next call.

[Caller]

Hi, Sam and George. Last time I called in, I mumbled a ton, so I'm not going to do that this time, honey. I have a question about Ms. Charlie XCX. She, you know, had a great brat era, but she's pivoting into acting. She's like going to be in like 20 movies and was on SNL. But I want to hear you two geniuses come up with, like, what movie is going to win her the Oscar like, what is the campaign? What is the role? How are we going to get her that little gold mate? Should she be the sexy stepmom in a drama and she has 10 minutes of screen time, it fills the show. Should she fall into a magical world Narnia style? Should she have Sandra Bullock's role in a reboot of Speed where that bus is zooming around? Yeah, I would love to know your guys thoughts. I love you both dearly. Love from Alaska. Work it out.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Work it out.

[Sam Taggart]

Shout out to Alaska. I like this question because I'm like, I feel like Charlie as an actress, the Oscars love someone to play against type. Like people love to see like a transformation. So I think she would have to play like a dowdy mother who was like dealing with intergenerational trauma. And it's like very. And maybe it's even in like the Victorian era. And like, like essentially like maybe like her son is at war and she's like thinking about him quietly for like two hours. Like maybe you never even see him.

[George Severis]

So I'm sharing my screen with you, which I just remembered. So you did see me googling Mariah Carey Precious and it.

[Sam Taggart]

My browser was blocking it so I missed it.

[George Severis]

Got it. I wanted to address that in case you had seen it. I was trying to remember what the famous. Okay, well it ended up just googling Mariah Carey PR and it's now showing me who her publicity team is, which.

[Sam Taggart]

I have been wondering.

[George Severis]

Yeah, totally. Recently a clip of Precious was randomly going viral on my feed and it's the clip where Precious goes to see Mariah Carey who is playing a social worker. Now, of course there's an argument to be made that that movie is evil and I definitely recognize that argument. However, we have to admit that every single woman in that film is giving the performance of her career. And it sucks that it's all in the service of this narrative.

[Sam Taggart]

But it's just facts are fully right. You're fully right. Right.

[George Severis]

I mean Monique is. That is like a generation defining. If the movie was more well written, that would be a generation defining performance.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I'm literally what was going on over there. How are they all so good at acting over there?

[George Severis]

No, it's crazy. I mean even Mariah who famously, I mean her one movie flopped, she's not, you know, you wouldn't think of her as someone who has acting range. She's doing a great job. Paulette Patton. Anyway, so I was trying to think like, like, should Charlie do something that is sort of Mariah Carey and precious. You're going more period drama. I'm going more grim, like present day set movie in like in London. That's about kind of like a working class community in London. And Charlie is, you know, this has not been filmed yet and then it would take even longer to come out. So I'm just thinking about her age. She could play a mother, she could play a teacher, she could play honestly, a reporter that is reporting a big story about, you know, water pollution in the community or something like that.

[Sam Taggart]

I like that.

[George Severis]

And then I think in a completely different direction, I think Charlie could be the new M in James Bond.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, yes, that's fun because I think.

[George Severis]

Both of us are going very obvious with this question which is like, okay, what's an Oscar y role? But I think. And then of course the less imaginative thing is being like, okay, well she should play an actress or a pop star, like whatever she's doing in that movie that she's writing herself. But I think if she were to do a cunty role that isn't someone in the entertainment industry, that would be fun. Like a CEO, an editor in chief of a women's magazine, someone who is a weapons manufacturer. That's why I think being M in James Bond could be a real breakthrough for her.

[Sam Taggart]

That could be a real breakthrough. Not Oscar worthy, but it would be a breakthrough. It would be fun for sure.

[George Severis]

Because I think people think playing against type for her would mean dressed down, but actually playing against type with her would mean not messy, like super type A and buttoned up.

[Sam Taggart]

She plays Margaret Thatcher.

[George Severis]

Yes, exactly. She should play Margaret Thatcher.

[Sam Taggart]

It's called Young Margaret.

[George Severis]

It's called Young The Iron Lady 2. No More Free handouts. Bibes. That's the full title.

[Sam Taggart]

Bibes. It would be like, it would be about Margaret Thatcher, like when she's young, like being wronged by like people getting free stuff and like it's sort of her villain origin story.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Maybe she had one experience where everyone else got free stuff and she didn't. Or it's like everyone was handing out the free government tunics and all the rest of the people's fit and hers was too small or too big and she was like, wow. I've always thought that a one size fits all approach doesn't work. It turns out no one should have healthcare.

[Sam Taggart]

I think that could really work.

[Caller]

Hey guys, what are your thoughts on dating someone who's really hot, has good morals, votes, loves you unconditionally, but just is a little bit dumb? Like you regularly get to explain world events and history, etc. To this person, they have plenty of other skills, but just like general knowledge is not one of them. Okay, thanks. Bye.

[Sam Taggart]

That feeling when general knowledge is not one of the skills.

[George Severis]

Damn. For general knowledge to not be one of the skills is tough. I also, I do want to kind of make a. Draw a line between intelligence and general knowledge. What you're describing is someone being uninformed, which in fact can be fixed and is not difficult. Like, I think it can take a couple of years. But, you know, you teach this person. This is the Morning News Digest. You should read. These are a couple of books about world history. Maybe let's sit down together. This is sort of like a big oaf of a man. He can barely swing his limbs around without knocking over a pitcher of pink lemonade. You sit him down, you say, we're going to watch the evening news.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

So that to me is fixable. Intelligence is a tough one.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I'm torn on. I wish we had an example of the intelligence because right now I'm thinking I'm more on your first statement where it sounds like he is the total package, except so he doesn't know about the Revolutionary War. And I'm sort of like, if the other skills are like he knows how to cook or he knows how to. He has a good sense of direction or something. I'm like, that counts too. That counts towards intelligence. Being able to win at Trivial Pursuit is not necessarily intelligent.

[George Severis]

Yeah. You're also saying he has good morals and he votes correctly without having general knowledge. That's emotional intelligence. To know.

[Sam Taggart]

You can't buy that. You can't buy that.

[George Severis]

You can't buy that. There are people that have so much general knowledge, too much, in fact, and they are voting for insane things out there in the world. But I have to say, I must admit that it would bother me if my significant other lacked general knowledge, to use your terminology. So I understand where you're coming from and I think it's something that can be taught. I am a little bit more interested in the question of genuinely if someone is a little actually dumb, because that is challenging.

[Sam Taggart]

It's so specific because it's like, how are you dumb? There are metrics in which I am dumb. But I'm like, like, I feel like if it's like, sort of like if you were to tell me like, hey, could you like take care of this child? Could you take care of my child for the day? My child is two. Could you take care of her for the day?

[George Severis]

You could figure it out, I'd figure.

[Sam Taggart]

It out, but I'd have a lot of questions, and it wouldn't come naturally. And like. Like, even if it was like, like, okay, there's a chicken in the fridge and my mother is coming over. Can you please prepare it, period?

[George Severis]

I'd be like, well, that is simply just cooking. I would say that falls under general knowledge.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, and I think, yeah, I think there's a world in which. Yeah, I guess. How would you define a little dumb?

[George Severis]

I think a little dumb is. To be honest. I define it as like, someone who says something that is completely uninteresting and thinks it's groundbreaking. I think of this. This is. Honestly, I think about this so often when I go home to Greece. You talk to Greek guys, and they will have this, like, they'll just be like, the thing with men and women is, like, you have to. Women expect you to be romantic, but they don't know how they want you to be romantic. They just think of this thing. It's like. So what you're saying is sort of like a cliche line a guy would say in a movie before the woman broke up with him. I mean, here's an example. It's like, when people have really lukewarm opinions about. About something like cancel culture and think it's interesting, or when people are really inspired by the show, the newsroom. Just, like, your brain is simple, and so it is easy to hit the right buttons and make it go off.

[Sam Taggart]

No, now that you're saying this, I know exactly what you mean. And it's. It. That is tough. If it's, like, dumb as in, like, uninteresting and uninspiring, that is kind of unfortunately, the, like, fantasy of, like, the dumb guy who's, like, so sweet and good is, like, not, like, it's like, if they're, like, really genuinely dumb like that, like, it's kind of. It's over for me.

[George Severis]

And it's also. I. I do get. I would get embarrassed, like, in social situations. Like, it's not a nice thing to admit, but, like, I would hate to be in the position of having to explain myself for dating someone who is saying dumb things in mix company. And I've been in those situations. Yeah, I've been in those situations. But I've had friends of mine date someone who clearly is a dummy, and everyone sort of has to pause when it's their turn to speak and be like, sure, sure, little cutie.

[Sam Taggart]

That is tough. That is really tough. I. Is there anything that, like, I was trying to think of, like, this question was making me think about our partners, and I was kind of like, like, like, is there any dumbness that you overlook? Because I was thinking about, like, like Misha is really unaware of, like, Internet culture, like, at all. And mostly that's like, fine. But it will be funny to be like, have you heard about this? And he's like, no. And it's just sort of that thing where it's like, I'm. I'm. I'm just like, my role is always explaining what is new on the Internet.

[George Severis]

The thing is, because I have also, I have that role in various. Not necessarily with Matthew, but with friendships I have. It's easy to take that as meaning that you are somehow smarter, but in many ways it means you are dumber.

[Sam Taggart]

Of course.

[George Severis]

You know what I mean? It's like, I mean, I mean, it depends, of course, what the other person is doing instead of being on the Internet at that time, but it's like, I've had to explain stupid Internet things to someone, knowing that they are smarter than me and spend their time reading books rather than being online. Okay, I have an answer to what is the dumb things Matthew and I overlook in one another. I hope he doesn't get mad at this. For him, it is a lack of spatial reasoning in the. On a small scale. So, for example, trying to make a salad in a bowl that's self evidently too small, just being like, yeah, I can definitely dress this salad in a bowl that's for cereal.

[Sam Taggart]

That's so funny.

[George Severis]

And then for me, it's actually spatial awareness on a larger scale, which I've talked about before, which is a lack of a sense of direction. I really am like a little child when I'm walking around New York City. Even though it's a grid, I always have a difficult time. I'm orienting myself, knowing what direction I'm going to. And I do think each of us has learned that it's not something the other person's gonna learn, and you just have to be okay with it.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I definitely have a horrible sense of direction. And I'm mostly inefficient in many ways in my life. And I think Misha overlooks that. Where it's like, he cares about efficiency in the grocery store, he has a plan, and I'm like, like, I'll get it done when I get it done. I have a different journey.

[George Severis]

Yeah. God. I'm just thinking the topic of the dumb boyfriend is really, there's a lot there. I also want to say it's interesting. The two kinds of bad boyfriends are almost too dumb and too smart if you sort of think about it. Because the too smart one is almost the stereotype of like. Like a man that is so intellectual he becomes a misogynist. He's so focused on his brain that he doesn't see his girlfriend as a full person. And then the dumb one is so dumb that he doesn't get that he should. It's like the dumb one doesn't buy a birthday gift because he's stupid. The smart one doesn't buy a birthday gift because he has some theory about physical possessions, but both of them are ultimately not buying a birthday gift.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that's like a really smart thing you just said.

[George Severis]

Thanks Sam.

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[George Severis]

Listen to your elders, honey. You might know them from their viral videos, but now the old gays pull back the curtain on their podcast Silver Linings with the Old Gay, brought to you in partnership with iHeart's Ruby Studio and Vive Healthcare for a very special bonus episode. Hosts Robert, Mick, Bill and Gisei talk about how pride has evolved over the years and their favorite memories, all in celebration of Palm Springs Pride. Because pride should be celebrated all year round. Listen in to these fabulous friends swap stories exploring how queer life has evolved over the decades and the silver linings they've collected along the way. Each episode dives into hot topics from safe sex and online dating to untangling Gen Z lingo, as well as insights on how music, art and fashion show up in queer culture. So check out Silver Linings, a show about how pride ages like fine wine. Available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[George Severis]

I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I.

[Sam Taggart]

Don'T trust much of anything.

[George Severis]

It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people. We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little.

[Sam Taggart]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward. Forward from there.

[George Severis]

NBC News reporting for America.

[Caller]

Hey, Sam and George. I did call in earlier about heim, but I am calling back with a different theory about pop girls and I would love for two of the greatest minds of our generation to weigh in. So my friends and I were at the Chapel Roan show in LA and it got me thinking that I think a big reason that why Chapel got so big so quickly is that she had really strong appeal to the big three demographics of pop girl fandom. So that is straight women, gay guys, and gay women. And I think my friends and I were actually struggling to think of another pop girl that really has all three of these demographics to the same extent that Chapel has. I think it's common for people to have two of the three like Dua Lipa as an example. I think straight women and gay guys she has. But I don't think lesbians about Dua Lipa Lord is one that we were torn on. We were. I think Lord actually has had all three over the course of her career, but I don't think she's had all three at the same time. But we were really split on that one. So. Yeah, just wanted to get your guys thoughts. Do you agree? Can you think of other pop girls that have all three the way that Chapel does? Would love for you guys to weigh in. All right, love you guys. Bye.

[Sam Taggart]

I think this is very smart. I really like this call. I think the obvious one who has them all is Gaga.

[George Severis]

True.

[Sam Taggart]

I think you know who did who doesn't anymore? I think Casey Musgraves did with Golden Hour and then doesn't Anymore.

[George Severis]

I have an answer that you're not going to like, but it is objectively true. Hit me with it, Taylor Swift. That it's just like we might not like it, but it is completely true that Taylor Swift has all three and has them bad. Like lesbians literally think she's gay. Straight women think they are her. Like, they're literally like she is writing these songs for me. And we had the same exact experience growing up. And then gay men are of course like completely insane and basically like jumping off of various windows at all times.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And I just, I do actually think it is an under discussed part of her story is that sort of, despite the fact that she seems like a very specific kind of blonde woman performer, she has this near universal appeal. And of course the thing with her brand of appeal to straight women is they will even like there's a sort of inoffensive kind of pop culture product that straight women can introduce to their boyfriends and husbands.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

I think it's more challenging for them to introduce, I don't know, even something like Lorde to their husbands. Whereas I think Taylor Swift. It reminds me of how straight men love to joke about how they watch like Love island with their girlfriends. It's just, it's actually like kind of the barrier to entry is low enough that they're able to kind of like hop on and understand it and do it half earnestly, half literally mocking their girlfriends and just sort of get on board. And so I think, honestly, that would be my answer.

[Sam Taggart]

That's a good one. Beyonce, I think, has all three.

[George Severis]

Yeah, Beyonce has all three.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm trying to think of like, who's close. I think it's interesting. I'm thinking about like Ariana Grande and I actually think like doing Wicked is the closest she's gotten to like getting all three.

[George Severis]

That's true actually, because then it's like the whole her and Cynthia Ar connection and everyone loves her. I mean, does Demi have all three?

[Sam Taggart]

Demi kind of might have all three, actually.

[George Severis]

Might have all three. And I would even go so far as to say, okay, hear me out. Miley has all three. But it's like the niche. It's like a minority of all three. Yeah, like there are passion. There's a passion minority of lesbians, passionate minority of gay men and passionate minority of straight women. Women.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. But it's not enough. We don't have.

[George Severis]

But it's not enough. And to be honest, I would even go so far as to say Pink has, in her own way all three. It's just not the ones we would interact with. But I think lesbians love pink.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, we actually got a comment somewhere that was like, mad at us. That was like.

[George Severis]

That we erased lesbian fandom?

[Sam Taggart]

No, no, the opposite. They were like, lesbians don't love pink. Don't say that. And I was like, whoa.

[George Severis]

Okay, okay, that's interesting. I've known lesbians who love pink, so maybe you get your facts straight, chica.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Hey, Sam and George. So my friends and I were at the Heim show in LA a few days ago. We had one observation and one question. So the observation was that we were all really surprised that Alana was actually the main talker in between songs. She was like, good bits and telling stories and training jokes, whereas we thought that would be SD's role as like the stand up comedian. So they kind of subverted our expectations on that one. And now the question. So we have. We wanted to bring back the Heimlich game. We were thinking about other bands with three women and non binary people. So of these three bands, Heim, Muna, and Boy Genius, which one is the Danielle, which one is Estee, and which one is Alana? This might break the game, but we have our ideas of who's who. We'd love to hear your take. All right, love you guys.

[George Severis]

Bye.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, first of all, this is the same caller of the chapel roan call.

[George Severis]

Oh, no. Is it?

[Sam Taggart]

It's. Yeah, because she said, like, I just called in about Heim, but I had another question.

[George Severis]

Oh, whoopsies.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I mean, shout out. I think. I think Muna is sd because Muna loves comedy.

[George Severis]

And Muna has a podcast.

[Sam Taggart]

And Muna has a podcast. I think.

[George Severis]

You know what, though?

[Sam Taggart]

What?

[George Severis]

Heim's vertical video output is nearing SD levels.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God.

[George Severis]

You know what I mean.

[Sam Taggart]

Not really, but I'm listening.

[George Severis]

Wait, you don't. I feel like all Chaim does is do vertical videos that are like various dance challenges and memes and like, they're being so silly and they're always making funny faces together. And I almost think they're like, out sillying Muna.

[Sam Taggart]

Really?

[George Severis]

Is this not like so much of your feed?

[Sam Taggart]

No, it's not.

[George Severis]

That's so funny. I'm doing the very unhelpful thing of being like, don't you know know. Don't you know this?

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, I'm looking. I'm looking at their Instagram now. Is that what you're talking about?

[George Severis]

I just feel like it's always some. It's always some dance challenge with Jimmy Fallon with them.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm, like, legit. Like, not seeing that on their. On their ig.

[George Severis]

That is shocking to me. To me. I mean, listen, maybe they. Maybe they've regretted their choices and have deleted the videos. To me, when I. When I envision Heim. Okay, Haim. To me, the music aside, because I like the music of all three bands, Haim is doing a vertical video dance that ends in them doing a funny face. Muna is. They have a podcast, and their guest is Caleb Heron. And boy genius is they're randomly dating one another. Yeah, Boy genius is like, the two. It's like Lucy and Julian are dating, and then Phoebe Bridgers is dating Harris Dickinson or something.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, Well, I mean, I think we have to at least agree that boy genius is Danielle.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I think so.

[Sam Taggart]

And so the question is Alana or Muna is. Wait, sorry.

[George Severis]

Alana Oresti.

[Sam Taggart]

Alana or Esti.

[George Severis]

Well, I do think, in a sense, Muna is. Is Alanna. Because they're, like, younger coded.

[Sam Taggart]

That's true.

[George Severis]

And more like they're, like, carefree and, you know, like, soundtrack to, like, a cool movie.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure, sure, sure.

[George Severis]

But then that would make Chaim esti. I'm telling you, Chaim is going esti mode.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, so Chaim is esti. I'm okay with that. I mean, I see what you mean. Like, they're. They're silly. They're like. Like, Muna likes comedy, but, like, in a sort of prestige way.

[George Severis]

Like, they, like, part of the comedy community. Muna is part of the comedy community.

[Sam Taggart]

Right.

[George Severis]

Like, they've been accepted into the comedy community.

[Sam Taggart]

Right. Whereas Chaim is doing comedy. Like. Like, Esti would.

[George Severis]

Yes, exactly. Exactly. I'm sorry. Sam, go to Heim's Instagram and go on the Reels tab. You are gaslighting me, boots.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, the reels should show up on their main feed, too, and they're not.

[George Severis]

Go to the Reels tab and tell me what you're seeing. Is every single one of them not a dance challenge?

[Sam Taggart]

They're literally not. They're making videos, but they're. I'm. I'm not seeing any. I'm. Okay, here's a dance challenge after I've scrolled. Okay. The first one's a dance challenge. Okay. The fourth one's a dance challenge. I mean, they exist. I'm just saying it's not. It's not as prominent as what you were saying.

[George Severis]

Okay, let's. Well, I'm looking at the rest of these. I'm loving. First of all, I love the question we Got that was just, do we like penises? I would say, for me, it's a yes.

[Sam Taggart]

It's a yes for me.

[George Severis]

I like the question. You know, we get this one a lot, which is, what do you do if you hate your job?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

We have answered it a lot in the past, and I'm afraid that we don't have any new insights in that vein.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. But listen to Heim's new album. I quit.

[George Severis]

Listen to Heim's new album. I quit. Someone called about the content versus context binary, which I want to. This is maybe not the time for it, but it's like one of my favorite things we've talked about is that we are going from an era of content to an era of context. What's more valuable now is not more content, it's more context. Because there's so much content out there that the person that's actually offering something new is a person who's able to read, contextualize it. So that's fun.

[Sam Taggart]

But it does get complicated when contextualization becomes content.

[George Severis]

That's the thing. Because then if you're, for example, if you are doing a. Let's say you're releasing a voter guide, or let's say you're releasing a breakdown of a recent news story, you have to ask yourself, are you actually providing context or are you just creating context?

[Sam Taggart]

My least favorite context is people that are like, did you know that in 2003 this happened and it caused this? I'm like, okay. Like, I'm sort of like, yeah, we can all pull, like, random things that have happened. Like, what is the broader arc that you're trying to.

[George Severis]

Right.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, is this like a six week course on like, yeah, 2003? Or are you just like saying, like, isn't it crazy that this boat crashed?

[George Severis]

I know. Well, what you're talking about also is very like. Like, there's been a huge increase in celebrating anniversaries of pop culture events. It's always like, Today marks the 17th anniversary of Demita Jo. I'm like, I love Demita Jo, but I actually don't need to know about the 17th anniversary.

[Sam Taggart]

That is unfortunately one of my favorite things, where they're like, 22nd anniversary of Blank. And I'm like, damn, slow news day. Which.

[George Severis]

And I know that it's also like sort of like they're doing it because they want people to make fun of them.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Very quickly, people have been really asking your thoughts on Tyra Banks releasing Hot Ice Cream, which is something you've always wished would happen.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. So I've always thought ice cream was far too cold. This is a known opinion of mine, and I stand by it. That being said, do I want it to be hot? Not necessarily. I've always said I want lukewarm ice cream that still has its texture.

[George Severis]

So you don't want a creme brulee or.

[Sam Taggart]

God, no. If anything, the closest thing that I want is a soft cookie. A soft cookie, to me, is the closest thing we have to warm ice cream.

[George Severis]

I see. I see. You don't like a panna cotta or a custardy. Dessert. Dessert.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, cheesecake. Okay.

[George Severis]

Cheesecake, I would say, is pretty close to room temperature ice cream.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, there's. You know, you're right. You're right. It's close, but it's not exactly on the nose. And I don't know what science she's cooking up. I have not, like, watched the full video, even though people have sent it to me. I was just like, I don't want to support someone losing their mind.

[George Severis]

Yeah. You know, there's a whole genre of. Of things people send to us that we just never address, and this is one of them. And I actually think that's. I think there's a way to drive yourself crazy where you're, like, interacting with someone like that and constantly being like, stop sending, please. A way of saying it, and then it, like, makes you drive yourself crazy. Honestly, one thing like that, and I want to say this publicly because we've never addressed this. The meme.

[Sam Taggart]

Address it.

[George Severis]

The meme where there are are two doors. One says, top a twink, and the other one says, stop and think. And there are a lot of people lined up behind the door that says tap a twink. Okay. So this is sent to us once a day. It has been happening for pretty much five years.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And I just want to say, all love. We've seen it. You don't understand the frequency with which it is sent to us. This is something that is reposted by meme accounts daily. Like, it is something that has existed it out there every day. Someone discovers it and sends it and says, oh, this is a straight shooter if I've ever heard one.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, they do do that, and we appreciate the support, but we have seen it.

[George Severis]

We have seen it, and we think it's hilarious.

[Sam Taggart]

As we're wrapping up, I'm like, yes. What's your mood like right now?

[George Severis]

It's not good. But it has nothing to do with you or this recording. It has to do with me being in a Bad movie. How was your mood?

[Sam Taggart]

Same, I guess. I was like, sometimes, if I'm being honest, when we do these and we both start in bad moods, we end in amazing moods. And I was like, kind of hoping for that, like, takeoff.

[George Severis]

I know.

[Sam Taggart]

But we will push through. And I'm coming to New York next week. We're gonna start, and then you're coming to la. We're gonna do a lot of amazing records, words.

[George Severis]

I'm trying to pull up our straighter lab email because there were some written ones and of course, my Internet is not loading.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, I can do that. This one is from Toronto. I can just read it out loud. We can decide. Okay. I'm taking trans vocal lessons, and in these classes, usually your first assignment is to find out who your voice inspiration is. A celebrity or a podcaster whose tone, rasp, intonation, you'd like to work towards. Your men. Who's your vocal inspiration? Or if you were to transition mask or femme, you pick, who would it be?

[George Severis]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Sam Taggart]

That is a good question.

[George Severis]

What is yours? This is a fun one to end on.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, this is an interesting one as especially considering our voices are our jobs for this podcast currently. And I think it's weird because I've never considered my voice to be particularly good. Like, I have, like, when I was a kid, I went to, like, speech therapy because I have, like, a. Something in my nasal path is weird that makes my voice sound nasally. So I had to, like, go to speech therapy to, like, stop talking like this. And. And so I'm like. I even feel like what I do already is put on, but I don't know how. I think it's sort of like a. I also think you're. You have a potentially interesting answer. Similar, because I had, like. Because I moved around to different regions of the U.S. i, like, got one accent. Like, there was a point when I was in the Midwest long enough where I got a Midwestern accent, but then I moved, but I never picked up a Southern accent. So I'm just like, this sort of vague, but I don't know what my voice fantasy would be. Do you have one?

[George Severis]

I know I don't. The dream, of course, is a neutral voice that only sounds slightly sophisticated because. Because it's so easy to sound either too gay or too pretentious. There is just anytime you're expressing an opinion in an audio mode, it's easy to become obnoxious or sound condescending or sound like you're way too sure of yourself. This is I'd say is a humiliating thing. But I think that because both of us have listened to the Slate culture gabfest semi ironically for the last 10 years, I do think often I will emulate Steven Metcalf's vocal patterns.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, interesting.

[George Severis]

Or at least attempt to. I would say that it would be really nice for me to have a vocal goal because what ends up happening with me is there are so many people I don't want to sound like that. I'm constantly having to find my. I'm constantly finding myself going a little too far in a direction I don't want to and then bringing it back such that I end up having an almost monotone, boring voice because I don't want to sound like too much like one or other person. And so this is definitely true in stand up.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Like, there are just certain other gay comedians that it is easy to emulate if you allow yourself, I think for straight people. So many of them fall into John Mulaney. So many of them fall into Louis CK So many of them fall into.

[Sam Taggart]

Like.

[George Severis]

Bill Burr, like it's such a thing. Or even a lot of alt comedians will fall into Maria Bamford.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Severis]

So it would be nice to have a vocal goal. Okay, I'll say this is. Okay, Here we go.

[Sam Taggart]

Let's hear it. I can't wait, wait.

[George Severis]

Did you have something you wanted to say?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I was gonna say that ever since I've moved to LA and of course I've been listening to How Long Gone constantly, I do find myself butchering it up a little bit more.

[George Severis]

Really?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I hear myself, like, say more mask things that are like, like have like a little cadence of like, slightly butcher.

[George Severis]

Yeah, dude.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, like, like I'm trying to think of. It's hard to think of an example, but I do find myself almost. You're going to want to go ahead and do that. That type of thing where it's not fully. I'm not pretending to be straight, but it is a little bit of a straight guy cadence that I've picked up from listening to them.

[George Severis]

Do you listen to Doomscroll?

[Sam Taggart]

No.

[George Severis]

It's an interview show. The host name is Joshua Citorella. He used to be an artist, or maybe still identifies as an artist. I don'. But also does this podcast. He's had good people. Actually, Grimes was randomly just on it this week. But he has what I would describe as like, a truly, like, neutral male voice. It's like, not too masc and not too gay. And I almost think that's like Best case scenario. And I think, honestly, and I'm sorry, if he's listening, it makes him sound a little less. Less confident in what he's saying and even sometimes a little less smart because he isn't domming the interviewee, which I think is nice. It's nice to have a sense of curiosity and not immediately know exactly what you want to say. And it's almost like the less harmful version of Theo Vaughn doing that, but being a complete moron. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

So I guess that would be one of my vocal. Vocal role models.

[Sam Taggart]

I definitely also, when we started this podcast, I remember it being like that being more of a pressing issue of being like, how do we want to sound?

[George Severis]

I know, but then you just sort of, like, fall into a pattern.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Because it was like, I remember, like, always joking at the beginning and being like, we're. We're being Marc Maron, we're being Pete Holmes. We're being.

[George Severis]

I know. We were so self aware, parentheses, derogatory sometimes. I was so petrified of coming across as either stupid or unoriginal or whatever. And you just gotta have faith that, on average, you're occasionally saying some insightful things.

[Sam Taggart]

God.

[George Severis]

I also just want to say, just because this caller is talking about transitioning, we get a lot of calls from callers who are transitioning. I will say it. And we had another one that was a trans guy that is wondering if he should, like, he's a gay trans guy, and he's wondering if he needs to abandon indie rock because he needs to get into pop girlies because he's a gay guy. And I just want to say, no, you should. It's cool to like. Being a gay guy who likes indie rock, I think is honestly, honestly one of the most ethical things you can be at this moment in time.

[Sam Taggart]

I completely disagree. Wow. Really? I think you have to let go of indie rock for five years and be the dumb gay guy you've heard about in the stories, and then you have to find your way back home once you've fully immersed yourself. I think it hits harder when you let go of the wall and are sort of. You'll never forget the indie rock. And you can always. You can always revisit and it will come back around. But to make the full commitment to the like and also just like, you'll find yourself being like, well, to have a conversation with these, like, random gay guys I just met, I do actually need to know, like, what Sabrina Carpenter's fifth album was about, like, rather than the one before. Short and sweet. Like, and so you find yourself, like, becoming encyclopedic about that. And I think it's a helpful tool. And then one day you'll, you know, you'll go back home.

[George Severis]

Do you find yourself having constant conversations about pop stars outside of this podcast?

[Sam Taggart]

Literally? Yes.

[George Severis]

Okay. Because I don't. And it's. It's actually always like. Actually something I've really like, appreciated and enjoyed about. About our time together is that. Because I know it's something we're gonna talk about, I'm becoming more informed, but I don't feel like with the other gay men in my life. That's one of the main topics.

[Sam Taggart]

It's kind of like Drag Race, where at this point, I watch it in the same way that I think many straight men watch sports, where it's like, I just need to be able to have a conversation with the gay guy I just met.

[George Severis]

Yeah, that's true. That's true. Well. Oh, and by the way, another thing we keep getting calls about is our thoughts on marriage and open relationships. And I'm kind of like, no.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. And mostly, I have to agree.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And that's pretty much it. I enjoyed the question that asked us. Us, if you got paid $7,000 every time you gave Zach Braff a concussion, how many concussions would you give him?

[Sam Taggart]

Enough concussions to have $3 million.

[George Severis]

That's right. And rest in power, Zach Braff.

[Sam Taggart]

Not because I particularly hate him. It's just a cruel, cruel world we live in. And of all the ways to make $3 million, that's almost more ethical.

[George Severis]

It is a little bit like, you would harm fewer. Fewer people, literally. You would only, in fact, harm Zach Braff, who's had a pretty long and full life, full career. He got to date Florence Pugh.

[Sam Taggart]

That must have been fun.

[George Severis]

That must have been great. Not a lot of people can say that. No. He was in a hit show. He got to literally become an indie darling filmmaker for a while.

[Sam Taggart]

He pretty much invented the shins.

[George Severis]

He invented the shins and invented the idea of a manic pixie dream girl. There's enough. If Zach Braff died of. Of 35 million concussions tomorrow, there would be so much in his obit.

[Sam Taggart]

People would be. And people. It honestly would be good for his career because he could be like that. People would come back around because people really don't like him right now in a way that as soon as he were to get 35 million concussions, he would be like a fucking saint. Move over, Charlie Kirk.

[George Severis]

No, completely. It would be The Charlie Kirkification of Zach Braff. And people would. Would, you know, Garden State is not a great movie, but it's good enough that people can. Like, if he died young, people who didn't live through the Manic Pixie Dream wars would reclaim it and be like, this is actually, like, really aesthetic. That's what they would say. They would say, that's really aesthetic.

[Sam Taggart]

That's really aesthetic. Manic Pixie Dream wars is one of. That's an amazing sentence.

[George Severis]

I mean, it's true. That was the original Girlboss. You know, they keep inventing archetypes so they can tear women down. Down.

[Sam Taggart]

George, I have to sincerely apologize about what? Because I was really against the Zach Braff question. And that was my favorite one.

[George Severis]

Well, this is. And I don't want to create more drama, but that's why I was confused. I was like, you're not attracted to the fun ones. It's not that. It's.

[Sam Taggart]

I was sort of like, here, can I. Okay.

[George Severis]

Sometimes we also need to stop.

[Sam Taggart]

We literally need to stop. This is an interesting exploration. Sometimes when people. And shout out to the caller, nothing but love, nothing but respect. But when a call is trying too hard to be funny, I get turned off.

[George Severis]

Sure. No, I get it. You're saying you're a happy medium is what movie would win Charlie an Oscar? Because it's funny enough. But it's not like I'm the joker on stage with my notebook doing standup and Todd Phillips is the joker.

[Sam Taggart]

Exactly. Exactly.

[George Severis]

That's fair.

[Sam Taggart]

But what I forget is when I don't love a question, I can almost answer it with more disdain and more abandon because it's less pressure.

[George Severis]

And that's the other thing with the non pop culture ones is I don't want to be part of a discourse.

[Sam Taggart]

Honey, you don't start believing in discourse you're in now.

[George Severis]

I don't wanna. I don't wanna.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't want to.

[George Severis]

So that's it.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, this episode is amazing. Of course, I agree. It's going to be not amazing for our editor. Shout out. Sorry.

[George Severis]

Shout out.

[Sam Taggart]

And other than that, thanks for listening. Thanks for calling.

[George Severis]

And in conclusion, Sam, I was just wondering, what is a piece of media you loved in your youth that you now hate?

[Sam Taggart]

Nothing. The little boy that loved whatever was right. And while I'm not able to appreciate it now, it meant something then. And I guess I would have to say, you know, I. I will say I was gaslit by some things as a child.

[George Severis]

You know what's funny is I said that as a joke, so we would end there. But I love that you're answering the question, because my plan works.

[Sam Taggart]

I never liked. I never liked flubber.

[George Severis]

You never liked.

[Sam Taggart]

I never liked flubber. I was gaslit into having to tell people that I liked flubber. I never liked flubber.

[George Severis]

You know, this morning I had breakfast with my dear friend Jenna. She goes. She was like. It's like she was talking about something else. And she goes, it's like, how I hate Robin Williams. And I was like, excuse me.

[Sam Taggart]

That'S crazy. What was her take? Did she say?

[George Severis]

I don't know, but I think it's like, he's doing too much, which I get. And that's, of course, one's first reaction to Robin Williams. And you have to move past that in order to understand his genius. But I do think flubber, because just on a script level, there's not much happening there. It is just him doing two. Too much?

[Sam Taggart]

No, that movie I. I went and saw in the theaters, and it was that thing where you're a little kid and you're like, I know, I should have liked that more. So I'm just gonna say I liked this.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Well, here's the thing. When we were little kids, seeing Robin Williams, Jim Carrey and Eddie Murphy overact could be scary.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

That'S scary.

[Sam Taggart]

That's a lot for a child.

[George Severis]

That's an adult man doing all that.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that's not right.

[George Severis]

That's not okay. Those actors are not safe for children. Those actors should be for adults.

[Sam Taggart]

Those actors should be for adults. And then the other one I want to say is this is going to be really controversial, but I can't stop thinking it. I loved Spice World as a child. I think Spice World has some amazing alt comedy bits, and it's really impressive, the level of humor they were working with. But when you rewatch it, it is long and as fuck.

[George Severis]

No, it's bad.

[Sam Taggart]

And they should make a compilation of all the amazing bits in it and cut out all that fucking filler.

[George Severis]

Spice Roll would be an amazing movie to cut into. Vertical videos that are shareable online. If anyone over there is thinking about.

[Sam Taggart]

And according to our Joe Sunday interview, the youth needs it.

[George Severis]

And I just want to say people are. Feel free to stick. Stop commenting on that specific video. I think we've heard all the takes we need. And by the way, none of you are funny. Woo. Okay. Love ya.

[Sam Taggart]

Love y'. All. Happy November.

[George Severis]

Bye.

[Sam Taggart]

Podcast ends now.

[George Severis]

Want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month. Discord Access and more by heading to patreon.com Stradiolab and for all our visual learners.

[Sam Taggart]

Free full length video episodes are available on our YouTube.

[George Severis]

Now get back to work.

[Sam Taggart]

Stradia Lab is a Production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and iHeart.

[George Severis]

Podcasts, created and hosted by George Severis.

[Sam Taggart]

And Sam Taggart executive produced by Will Ferrell Hansani and Olivia Aguilar co produced by Bay Wang Edited and engineered by.

[George Severis]

Adam Avalos artwork by Michael Fales and.

[Sam Taggart]

Matt Grubb Theme music by BE.

[George Severis]

Hey.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It'S Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this fall. Take care of the little ones in the family with Baby Club Savings now through November 4th. Spend $25 on select Baby Club products and save $5. Shop for items like Pedias Shore bottles, Pedialyte powder packs, Huggies baby wipes, Huggies diapers, Gerber Puffs and Gerber pouches. And save $5 when you buy $25 or more on participating particip products. Offer ends November 4th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details. Ah, greetings from my bath, festive friends. The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money, getting 5% cash back when I pay in four.

[George Severis]

No fees, no interest.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I used it to get this portable spa with jets. Now the bubbles can cling to my.

[George Severis]

Sculpted but pruney anybody.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal. Save the offer in the app ends 1231.

[Sam Taggart]

See PayPal.com promoter terms can be redeemed for cash and more pay and for subject to terms and approval.

[George Severis]

PayPal Inc. And MLS 910457 the day.

[Sam Taggart]

Begins at the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club at Boston Logan Airport. You get the clam chowder in San Diego. It's Tostadas New York Espresso Martini.

[George Severis]

It's 10am why not?

[Sam Taggart]

It's the quiet before your next flight, the shower that resets your day, the menu that lets you know where you are. This is access to over 1300 airport lounges and every Sapphire Lounge by the club.

[George Severis]

And one card that gets you in.

[Sam Taggart]

Chase Sapphire Reserve, the most rewarding card.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Learn [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan, Chase bank and a member.

[George Severis]

FDIC subject to credit approval.

[Annabe Sofas Advertiser]

Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, there the last one. Enjoy a Coca Cola for a pause that refreshes.

[George Severis]

This is an I heart podcast.