"Cheerleading" w/ Atsuko Okatsuka

Summary

StraightioLab Episode Summary: "Cheerleading" Featuring Atsuko Okatsuka

Podcast Information:

• Title: StraightioLab
• Hosts: George Severis and Sam Taggart
• Guest: Atsuko Okatsuka
• Release Date: July 29, 2025
• Description: StraightioLab delves into the multifaceted aspects of straight culture, blending humor and intellectual discourse. In this episode, George and Sam are joined by Atsuko Okatsuka to explore the intricate dynamics of cheerleading within straight and queer communities.

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1. Personal Anecdotes and Introductions

The episode begins with the hosts sharing personal experiences, setting a relatable and humorous tone for the discussion.

• George Severis (03:04): Reflects on dealing with food poisoning while maintaining his chic appearance by drinking Gatorade discreetly.

• Atsuko Okatsuka (04:03): Narrates three cinematic events from her recent life, including hosting a pop culture history podcast and encountering personal challenges with trust.

2. Straight Shooters Segment

In this interactive segment, the hosts and Atsuko engage in rapid-fire questions to assess their familiarity and complicity in straight culture.

• George Severis (21:46): Introduces the segment, emphasizing the rules: "You can't ask any follow-up questions about how the game works, and if you do, we will get so mad at you."

Notable Interaction:

• Sam Taggart (21:47): Chooses "Build a Bear" over "Build de Blasio."

• Atsuko Okatsuka (22:15): Selects "Liking your crush's story" instead of "biking into a trash bin."

The segment showcases the playful competitiveness among the participants, highlighting their understanding of straight culture nuances.

3. Doves vs. Pigeons: A Pop Culture Analysis

The discussion shifts to examining the symbolic representation of doves and pigeons within straight culture, unraveling deeper societal implications.

• George Severis (30:54): Comments, "Doves are pigeons. They're just like, they're definitely."

• Atsuko Okatsuka (31:39): Adds, "They are, like rats of the sky," critiquing the elevated status often given to doves over their more common counterparts, pigeons.

Key Insights:

• The hosts debate the aesthetic and symbolic differences between doves and pigeons, questioning societal preferences and the underlying reasons for these biases.

• Sam Taggart (32:01): Emphasizes the minimalist aesthetic associated with doves, likening it to "quiet luxury."

This segment underscores how seemingly trivial distinctions reflect broader cultural and societal attitudes.

4. Main Discussion: Is Cheerleading Straight?

The core of the episode revolves around debating whether cheerleading embodies straight culture or harbors queer elements, with Atsuko providing insightful perspectives.

Atsuko's Argument (47:25):

• Atsuko Okatsuka: States, "The reason I think it's a straight topic in a very obvious way is because of its portrayal in pop culture. It's always like, football, boyfriend, cheerleading, girlfriend."

Counterpoints:

• George Severis (48:14): Links cheerleading to public relations roles, stating, "They're like, stop being alternative support."

• Sam Taggart (49:08): Highlights the performative aspect of cheerleading, "We go out there being like, you go, girl. You go get them."

Atsuko's Conclusion (51:35):

• Atsuko Okatsuka: Wraps up the debate by acknowledging, "This is one of those classic instances where it is a straight concept, but queer people made it their own. It is a story of resilience in the face of so much prejudice and hardship."

Notable Quotes:

• Atsuko Okatsuka (63:26): "The theater element of it, the costume element of it, the pom poms, the pageantry of it is very queer. But the fact that it is a barnacle on the side of, like, the NFL is what makes it straight."

• Sam Taggart (68:17): "There's still this. They'll be like... they're gonna go straight into the pile of trash and be like, actually, you know, we're just cousins of pigeons."

This debate intricately weaves the roles of cheerleaders in supporting mainstream, often heterosexual-centric activities, while also recognizing the subversive, queer reinterpretations that challenge traditional norms.

5. Shout Outs Segment

Concluding the episode, the hosts and Atsuko give shout-outs to various individuals and shows, blending genuine appreciation with humorous takes.

• Atsuko Okatsuka (71:49): Cheers for Josh Sharp's Off-Broadway show "Ta Da," highlighting its significance and personal connection.

• Sam Taggart (75:08): Gives a humorous shout-out to Hailey Bieber's skincare line, critiquing the authenticity and marketing strategies behind celebrity-endorsed products.

Key Takeaways:

• The shout-outs serve as a light-hearted end to the episode, reinforcing the community-centric and supportive ethos of the podcast.

6. Final Thoughts and Reflections

The hosts reflect on the episode's discussions, emphasizing the blend of straight and queer elements in cultural practices like cheerleading.

• George Severis (77:00): Affirms the complexity of balancing authenticity with societal expectations, stating, "I'm fully on board. I'm on board."

• Atsuko Okatsuka (77:14): Critiques the superficiality of celebrity endorsements, "I simply don't believe it. You can't convince me that Hailey Bieber is a successful entrepreneur."

This reflection underscores the podcast's commitment to exploring and challenging cultural norms through humor and insightful dialogue.

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Conclusion: In the "Cheerleading" episode of StraightioLab, George Severis, Sam Taggart, and guest Atsuko Okatsuka engage in a multifaceted discussion that dissects cheerleading's role within straight and queer cultures. Through personal anecdotes, interactive segments, and deep-dive debates, the episode illuminates the complexities of cultural symbols and their intersection with identity and societal expectations. Notable quotes and relatable humor make the discourse both engaging and thought-provoking, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of the topic.

Notable Quotes:

• Atsuko Okatsuka (47:25): "Cheerleaders are the pop stars of the school. They are the precursor to being a PR Girly."

• Sam Taggart (51:58): "We're out there being like, you go, girl. You go get them."

• Atsuko Okatsuka (63:26): "The theater element of it, the costume element of it... is very queer. But the fact that it is a barnacle on the side of, like, the NFL is what makes it straight."

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Timestamp References:

• 03:04 – 07:16: Personal anecdotes and initial discussions.
• 21:46 – 29:04: Straight Shooters segment and dove vs. pigeon debate.
• 30:54 – 36:35: Symbolism in doves and pigeons, expanding on cultural implications.
• 42:34 – 68:02: Main debate on cheerleading's cultural alignment.
• 71:49 – 78:19: Shout Outs and final reflections.

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Useful for New Listeners: This episode is ideal for listeners interested in cultural debates, especially those exploring the intersections of straight and queer identities within societal practices. The blend of humor, personal stories, and intellectual discourse makes it both entertaining and enlightening.

Transcript

[Sam Taggart]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[George Severis]

Listen to your elders, honey. You might know them from their viral videos, but now the old gays pull back the curtain on their brand new podcast Silver Linings with the Old Gays, brought to you in partnership with iHeart's Ruby Studio and Veiv Healthcare. Hosts Robert, Mick, Bill and Jesse serve four lifetimes of wisdom when it comes to sex, love, community and whatever else they've got on the gay agenda. So check out Silver Linings, available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

High Key Listen to High Key, a new weekly podcast. You better listen. Speaking of tanning, I was sunning my.

[George Severis]

Nether regions cause I read that you're.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Supposed to like get sun not only in your mouth but also in your other orifices. Wait, are you talking about you put your hole into the sun?

[George Severis]

I did.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

That's crazy. Downward dog mooning the sun. I was gonna say. Is it cheeks open?

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's cheeks open all the way wide.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Is your cheeks open?

[Sam Taggart]

Uh huh. Who's holding them?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Enough of that nonsense. Now listen to High key on the iHeartRadio app app podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Attention glamour girls. We will be in Chicago this Sunday. That's right. We are performing at the Den Theater in Chicago this Sunday, August 3rd at the same time as Sabrina Carpenter set at Lollapalooza. So please support queer artists by buying tickets to our show. And you can use the code Stradio20. That's straightio20 at checkout for 20% off and if you're in Boston, Philly, D.C. or Toronto, those shows are coming up and they are selling very fast. So get those tickets while they still last and enjoy the episode.

[George Severis]

Podcast starts now. What's up, everyone? You are listening to Stradia Lab. Bicoastally, of course, I'm coming at you skinnier than ever due to food poisoning, but I am drinking Gatorade in a mug so that visually, it doesn't look like Gatorade and it actually looks tasteful and chic.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Well, I was saying you're sort of like an actress with a drug problem doing Johnny Carson. And then her, you know, aunt slash manager is coming in and is like, just give her the blue Gatorade. Like, she. She knows that when the blue Gatorade goes into the gullet, it's time to. It's time to say those talking points. And then she's there, you know, promoting her big MGM movie.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And it's like. And somehow she does pull it all together. And everyone is so moved, and they're like, I'm gonna see this film shout.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Out to our friend Dan Dario's novel, which I'm pretty sure has a very similar scene in it. I have had three kind of cinematic things happen to me over the last 24 hours. You wanna hear about that?

[George Severis]

Oh, God, yes, please.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Number one, this morning, you know, fans of the POD might know I am in some ways cheating on Sam by co hosting a different iHeart podcast that is a pop culture history podcast about the Kennedys. This morning, I did a public radio tour. So here's what that entails. I'm on a zoom. Every 10 minutes, they bring in a different local radio host to interview us, and then they leave. And it was like, first of all, I had an amazing time.

[George Severis]

It was like, this is like your fantasy.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

It was like a window into 80s/90s promotional tours. Because it's like, you know, it's someone who is the host of a local radio station in southeastern Texas or something, and his name is like, Tony at 9. And then he comes in and he has, like a really great radio voice. And he's like, so guys, like, you guys are talking all about the Kennedys. I mean, the Kennedys are just classic Americana. Like, what's your favorite thing you've learned? And then it encourages you to get into it and you start doing radio voice. And it just was so heaven to me. I was like, this is what my life should be every morning. So that's one.

[George Severis]

One. Okay, first of all, I want to respond to that and just like, please. This is so interesting because I've always hated on the radio when they're like, you're listening to 101.7 the Nash, and it'll be like, we have everyone from, hi, I'm Dua Lipa. Like, yeah, yeah, it's me. Blah, blah, blah. Like, I'm always like, how'd you get that celebrity? I'm Miley Cyrus. I've always been like, wait, were they all there? Have they ever all been there? And it's from.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

This is Ariana Grande.

[George Severis]

It's always from that tour.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

And then also one of them always does like a little more. One of them will be like, what's up, y'? All? It's Ariana Grande. Like, one of them will. Will do like a little twist on it.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Yes. Okay.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

So that was your first personal experience? Second, I. I don't know about glamorous, but I. It's like moments that would happen like in a sitcom or something. Second is on my way here, ran into someone. I. Oh, I'm like, truly two months late on sending a draft to. And like, it's just the terror of running. I didn't. For everyone listening, there wasn't a hard deadline. I just said I would send something and then I. It took me a while, but it's like the terror of. It's very like Sex and the City. Carrie running into her editor.

[George Severis]

Sure.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Like the terror of running into someone at a coffee shop and then having to like, not quite address the thing that both of you are thinking of. Because this person is like meeting with someone else and she's like, oh, it's my co worker Angela. And you have to be like, oh, hi. How do you two know each other? And you can't be like, well, actually, I am sort of not sending the thing I meant to be sending.

[Sam Taggart]

So that's the second thing.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

And then the third thing, which I'm trying. I'm going to try to anonymize as much as I can. I had an insane conversation last night where a friend revealed to me that someone I've known for years, like someone I've known for like maybe five years, is allegedly a pathological liar. And many things I thought were true are not.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God, why do you have to anonymize this?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Well, because.

[George Severis]

Do I know this person?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

You don't know this person. This is like in my non comedy life. It's not someone famous. Like, no one write in. It's not, you know, you're not gonna guess it, but it is. It's like, you know, that. You know, Grey's anatomy writer that had that expose written about her, and she, like, lied about being sick and all this stuff.

[George Severis]

I watched the documentary.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I'm like, oh, my God, this happened to me. And you know what else? This is someone. When I first met them, I was suspicious. I was like, something's off about this person. And then because they were, like, basically nice to me and because other people I knew were friends with her, I was like, oh, it was. My instincts were wrong. But you got to always trust your gut.

[George Severis]

Trust your gut with people that are, like, true pathological liars. I'm like, just go on the traitors. Like, no, just, like, live it up. Like, there is a world for you and there's a spot for you in society.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Well, I do think that we were talking about this with Parvati, who is who we support 100% is not a pathological liar.

[George Severis]

But we can't stand harder, by the way.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I've never stanned anyone harder, including every actress. But I. I think there is just. I really have come to believe there's a certain personality type, and they range from good to bad. But it is a type that is meant for reality television, and that is. Okay. Like, it is good that reality television provides an outlet for a certain kind of person.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Well, it's someone who's, like, deeply, deeply charming and deeply, like, good at games and whatever. But it's not like they don't want to be an actress necessarily.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah. Or they do and they're not and they don't have what it takes, which is also fine.

[George Severis]

George, don't say that.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I'm not saying that about anyone specific. I'm just saying, like, some of them do want to be actors.

[George Severis]

Sure.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

We have to. You know, we have to be honest.

[George Severis]

Sure. Some of them do want to be actors. Of course. Well, it's very sitcom that. You were having all these Hollywood moments that. And I was sort of laying in a bed.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Well, I was about to say, you know, it's very rude of me to talk about my amazing Brooklyn lifestyle without addressing the fact that you have food poisoning.

[George Severis]

Yeah. So I've been sort of doing that thing of, like, laying and rolling over and looking at my phone and, like, seeing emails and being, like, not having the strength to respond.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And being like, oh, God. But now we're out in the studio, and I've never felt better in my life.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Well, and I.

[Sam Taggart]

Well.

[George Severis]

And I think we should actually bring in our guests.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Oh, my God. I would Absolutely. Be thrilled to do that.

[George Severis]

Well, our guest is to die for. Please welcome to the podcast Atsuko Okatsuka.

[Sam Taggart]

Hello, beautifuls. Hi. Hi. Busy, George. Be busy, George. Be busy living Hollywood life. Not in Hollywood.

[George Severis]

Not even close.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

That's right. Well, I try, you know, wherever I go is Hollywood.

[George Severis]

Basically.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Hollywood goes wherever I go. Even though I live in Nashville, every day I wake up and I feel like it's Hollywood.

[Sam Taggart]

It's like church. Church is in you.

[George Severis]

Oh, I do feel that, like saying, like, you know, blank in this town or, like, oh, you know, it's showbiz or whatever. It had a level of irony in New York that it doesn't. When you're here, it's sort of like, oh, no, you are. It just is Hollywood and it is this town and it is a small town.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. And you over there with your food poisoning. I was like, oh, my goodness. What is this? Is it award season you're prepping for?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah. Sam has air quotes. Food poisoning. He had. He did it to prepare for the last Cultures Culture Awards.

[George Severis]

Yeah. I had to fit into my little suit. Oh, my God.

[Sam Taggart]

What. So what's wild is I actually had food poisoning, too, a few days ago.

[George Severis]

Really? How did it feel for you?

[Sam Taggart]

Mine doesn't sound like it was as intense as yours.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Because I wasn't like, oh, so thin. You know what I mean? I wasn't like that.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

I think I'm a little. My symptoms are lighter than what people typically describe.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Is that because you are kind of stronger morally and psychologically, would you say, than most people?

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, gosh, I don't know. That's a wild, bold claim, right? Most people, you know, I'm just stronger than most humans.

[George Severis]

I mean, now food poisoning is a mental game now.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I'm like, this is the fact that both of you had it. Like, this is a Hollywood thing. You are both preparing for awards season.

[George Severis]

It's an epidemic.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Mine was pork noodle soup. How about you?

[George Severis]

I think oysters, but I don't really know.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. You know. Yeah, that's true. Because we be eaten.

[George Severis]

We eat throughout. Plenty of things.

[Sam Taggart]

And then, you know what? You know, sometimes, you know immediately, and.

[George Severis]

Sometimes did you know immediately?

[Sam Taggart]

I kind of. Maybe in within that next hour or two. And I, I. I live wild. I do things like, I left this pork noodle soup out overnight, and then I had it in the morning. I came back to it. To it in the morning. Yeah. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Do you think?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

So you got the poisoning because it had been out overnight, not because it was on its own. Bad.

[Sam Taggart]

I think. I wonder. I think it's both, maybe. You know, it's got to be a combo.

[George Severis]

I need to talk about these oysters I had, because they weren't. It's not.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm taking my earrings off. I'm not like. I'm not trying to fight.

[George Severis]

Well, they look amazing, by the way. For the listeners. They're Ritz crackers. But they. These oysters are. Were a style I had never had in my entire life. I didn't think I needed to read the description because to me, oysters are oysters. There's one style they came, I'm not kidding, with a scoop of, like, Italian ice on them.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Oh, yeah, that happens.

[George Severis]

What?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, that's very common.

[Sam Taggart]

Is this Italian cuisine? Italian cuisine?

[George Severis]

No, no, this is common.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Just because it's Italian ice doesn't mean it's Italian cuisine. It's just like it's a little shaved ice on top. I've had it.

[George Severis]

Okay, Well, I have to say, it was more. It was like a scoop. It was not like a shaving of ice. It was like a scoop of essentially popsicle. And they were like different flavors. Like, it wasn't just, like, citrusy. It was like. Like, one was like cotton candy flavor.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Okay, that's not okay.

[George Severis]

And I was like, this is nasty as hell.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Wait. One was actually cotton candy flavor.

[George Severis]

Literally, it was cotton candy flavor.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

And was this restaurant sort of like super sophisticated molecular gastronomy and that's why it was cotton candy flavored, or was it, like, trying to be populist and high level?

[George Severis]

It was trying to be the first one.

[Sam Taggart]

Really?

[George Severis]

It was. Yeah, it really. I. And this is complicated. I don't want to, like, blow up a city's whole deal, but it was in Portland, and I think when you hear that, it makes it make more sense.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I've been very surprised by Portland cooking. And, like, you know, the food there is just generally so good.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I agree.

[Sam Taggart]

It's the chefs. Yeah, the chefs, the ingredients. They. They dare to eat wild. So, I mean, hence, you know, this Italian ice. Right?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

No, I agree. I trust people. Important because I'm sort of like, you guys dedicated your life to this. If you're living in Portland, you've abandoned everything else for the sake of two things. Being experimental with things that don't matter and being quirky. And by things that don't matter, I mean food. I mean, clothing. That is your life. No one is a lawyer. No one is a doctor. Everyone is experimenting with food, sustainable fashion. And you Know if you're lucky. Burlesque.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Yes, but not diversity. They're not experimenting with that. No, but, but, but food and drink and you know the other stuff you named. Yes, hence. But then do you think it was the flavoring or the oyster itself?

[George Severis]

Well, I think it was the oyster itself, but the flavoring just gave me a red flag in general.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah. That be molecular.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

That.

[George Severis]

That be molecular. I also want to say in the topic of food poisoning, we' it very soon. But you know how it's like an excuse all the time? Like, if you, like, want to cancel on something, you're like, oh, I have food poisoning. It's crazy to actually have it where you're like, oh, it does exist. Like, it's not just a catch all for, like, I don't want to come to the thing. It's like, no, you can actually get this.

[Sam Taggart]

I want to know these circles you run in where everyone's like, oh, you know, food poisoning and oh, my God.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

It'S such a classic excuse. I feel like it's so close. Yeah. Especially like, for, like, asking for an extension for a paper in college or not showing up to college.

[Sam Taggart]

Sweetie, I'm. I'm. How old do you think I am?

[George Severis]

Okay, okay.

[Sam Taggart]

You know, college. I'm like, this. College was. I could barely remember it.

[George Severis]

Okay, what about what.

[Sam Taggart]

Imagine not to. I don't.

[George Severis]

What if you. What do you say when you want to. When you're on a show and you're like, wait, I don't want to do this anymore. Yeah, you're like, oh, I just looked it up. It's an hour away.

[Sam Taggart]

I thought we're all about more honesty these days. I say that, like, my energy or time can't really, like, give to that right now.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Really.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, Yeah. I don't want to. I don't want to. Yeah. I don't want people to think I'm food poisoned all the time.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

No, that's. Listen, and I agree. I actually, I agree with you. I do. I would not, at this stage of my life, lie about having food poisoning. I think what I would say is, like, I would probably say something like, I put it in my calendar wrong. I, you know, double booked. I'm. I'm not, you know, you'd say, which I think is a soft lie, but I don't think I would actually go so far as to be like, my grandmother is sick.

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

These days people would understand. Literally going, like, I don't, you know, my energy or like, I. I overshot. You know what I mean, and I.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Actually think, I actually think the more detail you put into it, the more you're putting it on the other person, the more you're like, oh, my God, like, my cousin suddenly flew into town and she has a huge problem and I have to go pick her up because she actually is experiencing a really new virus and is in the middle of a park and, and suddenly. And I have to go there and lead her back. Like, then suddenly it's the other person's job to ask follow up questions. Whereas if you ultimately just tell them I'm tired, they might be mad at you, but they're not going to ask follow up questions.

[Sam Taggart]

No, for sure, sure, sure. And you said that long sentence like you've sent that text before.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Because I, when I was young, I do think, when I was younger, I thought. Which is a classic mistake that, you know, liars make. Not that I identify as a liar, but the Lady Dasper people think that by getting more specific, you are being more convincing. And it's quite literally the opposite. Like, you just sound like a crazy person.

[George Severis]

Sure, sure, sure. I think it's complicated too, because, you know, I did have to cancel on something last night because of real food poisoning. And so it was tough because even though I, you know, I think I agree. I don't use it as an excuse anymore as I once did. But it's like, how do you say? Like, I have food poisoning princes. Not lying. Like I want to be like. But for real.

[Sam Taggart]

You can, you can do that. Throw everyone else under the bus. That's lying and say no. For real, though. Not like, not like George or whatever. Not like George's food poisoning.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

But for real.

[George Severis]

For real. Real food poisoning. Yeah. I do want to prove it, but there's no way to. Except for now. Now, now we have the proof. You've all seen it. You've seen how skinny I am.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's what you should do. That's what you should do is send. Send a photo. Send like a shirtless pic where you just look emaciated. It's like, look, I'm so skinny.

[Sam Taggart]

Look at this tin pop I'm wearing.

[George Severis]

Normally, this barely fits. Oh, now I'm. Now I'm drowning in it.

[Sam Taggart]

Exactly.

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Listen to High Key, a new weekly podcast. You better listen. That's literally the definition of being an Aries moon. Just one little spicy off comment, that's all it takes. Everyone loves me at the Cancer and then the Aries comes out and they say who the is that? No you're gonna come for me being an Aries and you have a sag moon? Get outta here. But I'm a Capricorn Rising so that honestly balances it out and makes me more likable.

[George Severis]

Okay, that is your Capricorn talking.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Listen to High key on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium W for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Mint Mobile Ad]

Of $45 for a three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com.

[George Severis]

Should we do our first segment?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, let's do it. I'm ready.

[George Severis]

What the hell, why not?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Atsuko Our first segment in this podcast which is called Straighter Lab is Straight Shooters and in this segment we test your familiarity with and complicity in straight culture by asking you a series of rapid fire questions where you have to choose this one thing or this other thing A or B. And the one rule is you can't ask any follow up questions about how the game works and if you do we will get so mad at you you would not believe. You think we're being nice.

[George Severis]

Oh, ha, ha, ha.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

We're all joking around.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure, sure.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I so much as hear an intonation that could be construed as inquisitive, I am going to literally take a plane from Brooklyn, New York, AKA Hollywood, when I'm here and land at lax, go straight to that studio and get, frankly, physically violent.

[Sam Taggart]

I want to see you try. What you just Described will take 3 days to happen. LAX to this studio? Are you kidding? I'll see you in a week.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Three days if we're lucky. I'll see you in a week. With the way Boeing is these days.

[Sam Taggart]

Ye.

[George Severis]

Yeah, George, that was a. I have to say, that was a beautiful sentence in general.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Oh, thank you.

[George Severis]

The inquisitive intonation. I was like, whoa, he's going for it today for sure.

[Sam Taggart]

No questions. Okay. Boom. No questions from me.

[George Severis]

Okay, perfect. Well, here's the first one.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay.

[George Severis]

Build a bear or Build de Blasio.

[Sam Taggart]

Build a bear.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Taking the train or aching with pain.

[Sam Taggart]

I love these rhymes. Taking the train or aching with pain? Aching with pain.

[George Severis]

Okay. Username Taken. Or thou hath forsaken, Thou hast forsaken.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Liking your crush's story or biking into a trash bin. Sorry.

[Sam Taggart]

Liking your crush's story.

[George Severis]

Hijinks ensue or it stinks like poo?

[Sam Taggart]

Hijinks ensue for sure.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Seussical the Musical or using pharmaceuticals?

[George Severis]

Whoa.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, yeah. Can I say both?

[George Severis]

Sure. That's.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Well, that's a question, so we are going to deduct points, but you can answer both.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. Okay. Both.

[George Severis]

Exchanging pleasantries or exclaiming Heavens.

[Sam Taggart]

Me. Exchanging pleasantries.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Okay. Atsuko. It's raining men. His name is Glenn. I paid in yen or Your grade is 10.

[George Severis]

Whoa.

[Sam Taggart]

Your grade is 10.

[George Severis]

Wow. George, I have a question that actually, in your grade is 10, did you mean like, you received a 10 on the test or you are in grade 10? Okay.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I did. So I. It did occur to me that it can mean. It can mean both. I'm also. I feel like my intonation was not. Was it clear that the first part was also rhyming?

[George Severis]

Say it again.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

It's raining men. His name is Glenn. I paid in yen. Your grade is 10.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yes.

[George Severis]

I thought your intonation was beautiful.

[Sam Taggart]

We knew the rhymes. We knew. That's not. That wasn't why we were.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

That wasn't the issue confused. It was more semantic. Yeah. Your grade is 10 to me. I'm like, you're great. I would be telling someone, guess what? Your grade is 10. Whereas if they were in 10th grade, what would the context be where I would be breaking the news to them? You know what I mean?

[George Severis]

I mean, I hear you loud and clear. It's just that, like, who.

[Sam Taggart]

Memory loss. Memory loss. Maybe.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I don't know, a 10th grader that wakes up and is like. Like, what grade am I in?

[George Severis]

Yeah, Your grade is 10.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Your grade is 10.

[George Severis]

Well, and also, like, who gets a 10 on the test? Like, I have to be honest, even if you fail, you get like a 60.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Oh, see, I was thinking it's like from 0 to 10.

[George Severis]

Oh, like they got a 10 out of 10.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, like on the Runway.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yes, exactly.

[Sam Taggart]

10, 10, 10.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

10 across the board.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Oh, my God. That would be crazy if someone got a 10 out of 100. I mean, that is. You are borderline, you know, non functional.

[Sam Taggart]

And that's okay. You may need to be told that you're also in grade 10.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Okay, that's a really good point. So it's like Your grade is 10 out of 100 and then you're like, barely aware of your surroundings. And by the way, you're in 10th grade, so you better. Honestly, you better, like, get it together because college applications are starting next year.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes, exactly.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And yes, the person who hears this, they would go, oh, I got a 10 on my test and I'm in 10th grade. It's sounding like tens. Tens. Tens across the board.

[Sam Taggart]

That's right. Yes, exactly. Now this segment is making sense to me. Yeah, now I get it.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

So speaking of tens across the board, Atsuko, we rank our guests performance on a scale of 0 to 1000 doves, which is named after the lady gaga. B side, 1000 doves from the album Chromatica, which is not represented at all in the set list for the Mayhem Ball. I don't know if people have been keeping tabs on that.

[George Severis]

I have been keeping tabs on that and I found it upsetting.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I actually think it's the opposite of Ari Astra making Eddington in that Gaga is like, you know what? We actually can't be nostalgic for lockdown quite yet.

[George Severis]

Yeah, she's like, that just happened.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yes. Because she.

[George Severis]

We have to agree.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Chromatica really is. When I think of Chromatica, I think of Gaga and Ariana performing with novelty masks at the, like, MTV VMAs and it's like, I'm actually not ready to picture that just quite yet.

[George Severis]

The thing is. Have you gone back and watched that? Sorry to.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

No, no, sorry. We need to remember that we have a guest.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm listening well, it's literally.

[George Severis]

I recommend everyone to go back and rewatch it. The. Yeah, ariana and Gaga VMAs performance. Because it feels like when you watch like, you know, a performance from something when like World War II was happening. Totally, totally.

[Sam Taggart]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[George Severis]

It's like so weird.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, no, people were still figuring. People were still figuring out where they stood because now there's such stereotypes of like, this archetype is an anti masker. This archetype is like a liberal who is banging pots and pans. This archetype is like January 6th, rioter or whatever. At that time, we were still figuring out where we all stood.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, but you're supposed to look like.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yes, exactly, exactly. Okay, so basically we have to rank your performance on a scale of 0 to 1000 doves. Like, I. I'm gonna come out and say it. You did incredibly well, in my opinion.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I agree.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I think you were very confident in your answers. I like that you did both for one of them. And I honestly think the fact that you did both sort of like raised more questions than answers, which is what it's all about. You know, obviously we are gonna cut some points for asking a question, but at the same time, I feel like it's playing with the forum to ask a question and it's punk rock to do something you're not supposed to.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And sometimes I think asking a question is a gift because it lets us get mad for one second.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yes, exactly.

[Sam Taggart]

Right.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

So I'm thinking, I'm thinking very. I'm thinking like 898.

[Sam Taggart]

Whoa.

[George Severis]

That's an amazing score.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, that's really.

[Sam Taggart]

That's a lot of doves.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, that's a lot of doves, folks.

[George Severis]

That's a lot of doves.

[Sam Taggart]

That's 100 something. I couldn't do the math fast enough. That didn't. That wasn't the whole thing. That wasn't the whole dub doves.

[George Severis]

It wasn't the whole doves, but it was a lot of doves.

[Sam Taggart]

I can go home happy about that.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

What would you do, what would you do if. If we actually sent physically 900 or 898 doves to your home?

[Sam Taggart]

I would. Well, so they're flying, right? They're flying in. It's not like you boxed them.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, no, they are.

[George Severis]

I think, I think they would arrive in a box, to be honest.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Okay, so instead of. Instead of. You would have bought them an airplane, right?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, I'm thinking a helicopter carrying a giant, like, I guess cage you would call it. But they are flying within the cage, but it's not a closed box. Like, there's air going in and out. Obviously, we don't want to kill them.

[George Severis]

They can breathe.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

They can breathe and they're flying. They've actually created a really beautiful community inside the cage. Inside the Stratio lab branded dove cage.

[George Severis]

That we said, yeah, they're happy in there.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

They're happy in there. Some people have kind of emerged as the leaders of the town. There's like a Zoron figure, of course, and a Cuomo figure. You know, there's always one.

[Sam Taggart]

Of course.

[George Severis]

That's how it goes. You know, you have to have balance.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

So they arrive. You know, I'm not sure what your house looks like. Obviously in LA you have some outdoor space, which is nice. Would you immediately free them? Would you choose some to raise and some to eliminate?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, eliminate. Eliminate would be a bold choice. I mean, even if there is a. Even if there is like, you know, a Cuomo type or whatever, you know, I would say, well, interesting. You know, they, they. I mean, if you think about it, right. 900 doves, that's. That's its own helicopter too. I would, I would say, hey, all these boys are so silly. You know, they. These guys could fly. But no, let's put them in a bigger flying thing. Right. And I'd be like, oh, that's interesting. That didn't answer any of your questions. That was, you know, how I would first respond.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Of course, we understand if you need some time to like, like, process the fact that you now are the proud pet owner of almost 900 doves.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I mean, I would, I would try to train some.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

That's fun.

[Sam Taggart]

I would, you know, to, to. To do mail again, you know, reminiscent of their past.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Don't forget where you came from.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

That's a really good. That's a really good point. And actually, this could be. Speaking of Portland, I feel like it would be a very Portland small business for you to literally have a small business that's like a private dove mailing service. And it would be like, people would use it for their non denominational wedding invites. People could use it to plan, you know, a sort of polyamorous retreat. They can use it to send invites for a sex positive queer film festival.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. Maybe tiny snacks, if it's not too heavy. They could deliver them too.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yes, that would be lovely. Some chickpea chips, perhaps?

[George Severis]

Yeah. Individual individually wrapped chickpea puffs. Yes.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yes.

[George Severis]

That sounds amazing.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. You know, I forget because doves are Pigeons too.

[George Severis]

So we need to have this conversation.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Doves are pigeons.

[Sam Taggart]

Doves.

[George Severis]

They're just like, they're definitely.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. Yeah, they're just white. And you know, just like everything in life, when something's white, they go, well, this is better.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I mean, I do agree with you. It's like, not only is it racist, but it's also like, like, quite simply wrong that being like a dirtyish all white bird is more attractive than being a beautiful pigeon that has, like, little stripes and stuff. Like, I do think, aesthetically speaking, if I were to. If you were to tell me, okay, you get an article of clothing, you have a beautiful dress that you're gonna wear to the big gala, do you want it to be like, more in a pigeon gradient or a dove gradient? I would pick pigeon every time.

[Sam Taggart]

You would. I mean, because like, white parties are so big. You know what I mean?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

They are, but it's not exact. But a dove is not fully white. It's like this dirty. It's like dirty white, gray, cream. Don't you think? Yeah, I guess.

[George Severis]

White. Yeah.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Okay, so you're like, you're saying it's quiet luxury.

[Sam Taggart]

What?

[George Severis]

A white.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

A white dove is quiet luxury.

[Sam Taggart]

A quiet luxury which is like a.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Sort of minimalist aesthetic where you're wearing just like a plain beige dress or like jeans and a really expensive white button down or something.

[Sam Taggart]

That's how. How I usually they paint doves. I haven't looked at a dove in a while. Yeah, I feel like, yeah, you. You really got a specific color going on for them.

[George Severis]

Yeah. The only does I think of are like, magician doves.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, yes. And to me, they're like, oh, it's pretty. Like, I don't know. I. I would just say white, but maybe. Maybe they're a grayish off color. Maybe it's not as attractive.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

You know, I think what I'm thinking of, honestly, is just that, like, they are naturally a little dirty because they're outside. And so whenever I've seen a dove, I'm a little bit like, someone needs to clean that. Like, this is not the pristine white tone that I was promised.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes, but I am with you in that. And I'm with you in that. Like, yeah, they're overrated. Like, why do they get a better. Why do they get a better status? Yes, to the point they have a different name. Right? It's, you know. No, I'm not a pigeon. You know, that's them.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

A different name and a name that's like synonymous with glamour and glitz.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, and Christianity.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

And Christianity.

[George Severis]

I mean, a dove, I would argue, is closer to a swan than a pigeon. In my mind, like, I'm like, what are fancy birds?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Totally. Although, you know what, though? Unlike a swan, which has maintained its chic reputation, I think everything named after a dove is kind of low rent. Like, if you think about Dove, Chocolate, Dove, Deodorant, Dove even just like Dove as a. As a Procter and Gamble company or Unilever or whatever it is. It's not. These aren't sophisticated products. You know, we're not talking about, like, this isn't, you know, Louis Vuitton.

[George Severis]

Well, it's kind of sad, because in a way, they're, like, telling us that we're pigeons and we should aspire to be bigger. Like, there is something condescending about it. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

This is how, you know that doves are pigeons is. You know, how they release them during a wedding, Have a. A big dumpster. Dumpster trash right there. And then when you release them, watch them go straight to the trash.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah. No, literally, they are. They are just like rats of the sky.

[Sam Taggart]

There's still this. They'll be like. They'll go back to who they really are. They'll be like, oh, you think. You think we're gonna take off into the sky? No, you know, they're gonna go into the pile of trash and be like, actually, you know, we're just. We're just cousins of pigeons.

[George Severis]

Okay. Here's something I'm working on. So doves to pigeons, swans to geese.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Swans.

[George Severis]

Are swans just geese, or are they different?

[Sam Taggart]

You know? Well, because geese come. Yeah, yeah. Right. Swans are just white geese.

[George Severis]

Right.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Wait, are they geese or ducks? Whoa.

[George Severis]

They're. They're geese. The long necks.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Swan and geese have long necks. Ducks have short necks. Right.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, I guess that's true. I guess. I guess. I was recently at a pond that had ducks and swans, so I.

[George Severis]

Well, they commingle.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

They commingle. Okay. So that's.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

They're, like, friends, but they're not in the same family.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Right.

[George Severis]

But, like, ducks and mallards are, like, kind of the same.

[Sam Taggart]

Whoa. Mallards is. Okay. See, this is when. That's straight culture.

[George Severis]

Literally.

[Sam Taggart]

Knowing the difference between what we just said in the mallard.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I completely agree. Yeah. There's something about, like, this obsession to catalog everything.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, I don't know what mallard is. What's a mallard?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I actually also don't know what that is.

[George Severis]

It's like a type of duck, I think.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

But it's like. I think it's, like, sort of more regal.

[Sam Taggart]

Do you come from a bird hunting family?

[George Severis]

No.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, bird watching?

[George Severis]

No.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh.

[George Severis]

But I've. I've. I've tried to, like, I tried to once have, like, a joke about, like, the narcissism of small differences, but for ducks and mallards.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh.

[George Severis]

And how people, like, how, like, you'd never want to call a mallard a duck because they'd be like, well, I'm a mallard. We're actually extremely different. And everyone else would be like, no, you're not. You're the same.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I think the.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

The narcissism of small differences is, like, the overarching theme here. Like, all these things. Either they are birds that have very similar, you know, eating, migration and. And otherwise habits, or they are pond. Pond creatures that are also very similar and are just, like, eating random scraps of toast that children are throwing at them.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

So it's like you guys do.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

What you guys are good at sounding like you're an expert at in every subject.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Atsuko, we have had. This is literally our entire. Our entire mo. Our entire career.

[Sam Taggart]

When did these two become bird experts? I'm like, I just know about pigeon. And then here we are. I don't know. Big old, like, wow.

[George Severis]

No, I honestly have to say that this conversation has been, like, so vintage tradio lab in a way that I really was like, oh, this is nice. We haven't gone, like, done a deep dive on something so nonsensical.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Our favorite thing, honestly. And. And it really is true that we haven't done in a while. Our favorite thing is putting things into categories. It's like. And making a theory about the world from those categories. Like, okay, now we're talking about, like, swans. Ducks. Geese, and what's the other one? Mallard.

[Sam Taggart]

Mallard.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Like, I'm like, I'm so ready to. To. To. To spin this into a theory about how those are the four kinds of gay people. You know, Am I ready to do that right now? Maybe not after my big public radio tour and not after Sam's food poisoning, but just know that the wheels are turning. And in a few months, we're thinking, Instagram, carousel. Here's the four types of gay people. Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, we can go into it, but we'd have to study. We'd have to. Me and you, George, you have to at least know what mallards are a little more.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I know. It's really killing me that I can't picture what it is, is.

[George Severis]

Well, it's like a duck. It's essentially like a type of duck, I think. Yeah, but it's like more respected.

[Sam Taggart]

Which ones are the ones we eat?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Oh, that's a good question. Like, if you're getting. I don't know, if you're getting a Peking duck. What kind of duck is that?

[George Severis]

I have no idea.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't think it's your typical, you know, green head one. Yeah, I don't think it's that. Whatever that is.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

You know, I had pigeon and, you know, sorry. For anyone who's easily grossed out. The head was served. It was cut in the cross section so you could see the head and half the brain. And the guy that served it to us goes the way you eat this. The skeleton is actually so thin that you can just eat it whole and it's just crunchy. And so you take the half of a head and just put it in your mouth and eat it.

[Sam Taggart]

Was this also molecular gastronomy?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

This was, yeah.

[George Severis]

Did it come with a scoop of sherbert or something?

[Sam Taggart]

Let me guess, Portland.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Get this famous Korean restaurant inside a subway stop. Oh, like a hot, like a fine dining Korean restaurant inside a subway stop that you like. You go into this gross subway. Then there's an unmarked door. But it's like if, you know, you know, you go in, suddenly you're in. You know, you feel like you're in like a London, you know, like a sophisticated tasting counter.

[George Severis]

How was it?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Honestly? Delicious.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow, Brooklyn. Brooklyn has changed. I don't even know.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

This was in Manhattan, actually.

[George Severis]

Yeah, George is going Manhattan girl mode.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Oh, I'm going Manhattan girl mode.

[George Severis]

Oh, big time.

[Sam Taggart]

Speakeasy. Pigeon restaurant.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Speakeasy. Pigeon restaurants speak easy.

[Sam Taggart]

Korean restaurants that serve pigeon just fresh off the street. Fresh off of Manhattan.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I mean, this is the thing. It's like, you hear that? And of course it's, you know, it's not squab. But what? There's like, there's like a more sophisticated word people use, but it's literally pigeon, squab.

[Sam Taggart]

Not another bird.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I know.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't know.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

And of course you're like, you're like, oh, my God, a new thing like this, I can't wait to try it. And then you remember, wait a minute, there are pigeons literally on the street? Like, are these pigeons literally coming from above ground? You know, above the F train?

[George Severis]

Well, this is what I have to say. I've never understood how we have different, different names for things that, like, when they. Like a chicken is also poultry. I'm like, just call it Chicken. Like we have the name for it.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh yes, I know.

[George Severis]

Like, why have the second name just for when you're eating it?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Like pig and pork.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Ham.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, totally. But don't you think that is to distance yourself from the violence of eating this, you know, beautiful, smart animal?

[George Severis]

Of course.

[Sam Taggart]

But fish is fish. What are they, chopped liver? We don't care. We're like, yeah, that's fish.

[George Severis]

That's called chicken.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

True. It's true. And then sometimes, you know, you'll be dealing with like a big turkey and suddenly someone will call it the bird, and you're like, I'm sorry, have we gone full circle?

[George Severis]

Yeah. Now they're like trying to incite more violence. They're like, don't forget we're killing something.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, yes, Right, right, right. It's true, it's true. But again, fish is fish.

[George Severis]

Fish is just fish.

[Sam Taggart]

Because vegetarians will eat fish sometimes and they'll be like, ah, I do that though. I'm like, oh, pescatarian. Right. Where they're like, I, I eat no meat but fish. It's like, what? Why? Cuz they're I. Cuz they don't blink. Cuz they don't blink. You don't feel like they're real.

[George Severis]

Yeah, no, you're 100% right.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

PEs are the most morally weak people on the planet. It's like commit to something.

[George Severis]

Well, zer you have your cake and eat it too.

[Sam Taggart]

Right, right. They're like, oh, cuz, you know, fish. And it's like, what? They don't have feelings. They're like, I think it's because fish don't blink. So they're like, oh, it's definitely.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Fish don't blink. And it's also. Yeah, yeah. I don't breathe underwater like I'm breathing oxygen.

[George Severis]

Oh, yeah, they breathe water. They're. They're othered because they breathe water.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

You know, pescatarians. It's like how I feel about it's how I feel about people with one minimalist tattoo. I'm like, either be tattooed or don't be. Either have a choice. Yeah. Like have the courage to have full sleeves and you know, a portrait of your late aunt on your chest. Or go to work at the consulting firm. Don't try to have it both ways. Don't have a origami sailboat on your ankle.

[George Severis]

Done.

[Sam Taggart]

That's cute. Yeah, I was like, oh, that's cute.

[George Severis]

Oh, that actually sounds kind of nice.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Well, guess what?

[Sam Taggart]

I'm gonna get that.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Literally the reason I mentioned Is because that's the tattoo I wanted when I was in my 20s.

[George Severis]

Should we get into our topic today?

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[George Severis]

So this is interesting. We're doing something that's kind of brand new, which is that we asked Atsuko sort of what her vibe is and what sort of things she used to do that could be construed as straight. And she brought up cheerleading, which we, George and I both jumped at. So that's so genius. We've never talked about cheerleading. We have to talk about cheerleading. And Atsuko said, well, I don't think it's straight. So we have now decided that we need to have an official debate on whether cheerleading is straight or not.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

We're convinced, Atsuko, that it's straight. But before that, Atsuko, I actually would love to it if, you know, take. Take the idea of straight or gay off your mind. And I just want you to sort of tell us about your cheerleading past. Like, where was it? What was it like? How did you get into it? Did you enjoy it?

[George Severis]

What ages? What type?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Do you miss it? Do you feel like you're quote, a cheerleader at heart and comedy is your plan B?

[Sam Taggart]

I'm a cheerleader in like, that's like my perspective. You know, I'm very like, yes. And I'm always like, you go girl. You go get them. You know, I'm very like, I'm kind of like a little John to people. Sure. You know? Yeah, yeah.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

You're the little John of comedy.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

People are always saying that.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, even in my stand up, I talk about the things I love.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

It's not me complaining about things. Oh, interesting things I hate. No, it's like me defending even like the live laugh love sign. Because life is hard. What we like. I don't think you should judge anyone for being genuinely stoked about something. You know, that. That's like, that's me. So I think I am actually still a cheerleader, you know, like at heart or you know, know which. Whatnot. Our squad, you know, some people. I don't. Depending on where you grew up in the United States. Some people when they hear that I was a cheerleader, they're like, oh, you were a jock? You know, And I'm like, no. Like our squad was like, it was full of girls that were like, if it wasn't for cheer, I would have joined a gang. You know what I mean?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Oh my God, that's so funny.

[Sam Taggart]

That was my girls. It was like mostly Latinas and black girls and we were like self taught. It Was like some of the girls, like boyfriends were part of the Crips, you know what I mean? Some of them had been shanked before. It was. It was like that.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

And where was this?

[Sam Taggart]

Venice High School in Los Angeles.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, yes. Yeah. Venice is like, you know, Venice, we were like the Crips. And then Culver City was like our rival. They were the Bloods. And so, like, even the last day I. Our graduation day, someone got shot on our campus, you know, so it was like that. It wasn't like, bring it on. You know what I mean?

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Okay.

[George Severis]

So you were building community and like sort of doing cheer.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, but it was also like a harm reduction model. It was like these girls, you guys were at risk youth. And you are just like, Just like Hillary Swank in that one movie, taught kids how to journal. You guys were. You guys were taught how to cheerlead and that.

[Sam Taggart]

But there was no Hillary Swank character.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I see. So it was community.

[George Severis]

You have a.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

It was community based. You taught. You taught yourself. Ourselves.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. We. Yeah, we didn't even have a coach until like our third year. And it was a blonde woman that the school had hired from a gym nearby who was like a weightlifting teacher. She didn't know anything about cheerleading, but they were like, she's blonde. I think that's what you're supposed to do. So she just kind of like chaperoned us if we had to go away to games.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

And was this a. Did you do any form of like competitive cheerleading or was it always cheerleading a sports game that boys were playing?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it was cheerleading a sports game. Yeah. So, no, there was no way we would not be able to even get into the competitions. Like one, like one person could do a no headed cartwheel that we were so self taught.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

That person was me.

[George Severis]

Oh, good job.

[Sam Taggart]

Thank you so much.

[George Severis]

Congratulations.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

And Ariel, were you cheer captain?

[Sam Taggart]

No. No. I helped choreograph a lot of the dances though, because I had taken dance classes since I was a kid and yeah, I liked choreographing. So. Yeah. Okay, I did do that. Wow. Yes. Yeah. So straight or not.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah. So we can. I think Sam and I. I think Sam and I can like attempt to make our argument for why we think it's straight and then we can have you respond. How does that sound?

[George Severis]

Yeah, well, I mean, obviously yours sounds like a very unique experience.

[Sam Taggart]

It's gonna get dicey because. Okay, I already. I'm. I would love to hear why you guys think it's straight because sometimes it could get dicey.

[George Severis]

Sure.

[Sam Taggart]

I wonder if you're going to bring up gangs, because then it could get into race instead of. I'll let you guys do it. I'll let you guys do it.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I have to tell you something. Gangs are the last thing on my mind. Right.

[George Severis]

Gangs are not.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

It is so funny that gangs have already come up because when I. When I think cheerleading, I don't think gangs, like, just on the very basic level. And Sam can, you know, build off of this. What I'm. The reason I think it's a straight topic in a very obvious way is because of its portrayal in pop culture. It's always like, football, boyfriend, cheerleading, girlfriend. The cheerleaders are the most girly, feminine, popular girls. They are blonde, maybe they have pigtails or a ponytail.

[George Severis]

They are the pop stars of the school.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

They are the pop stars of the school. They are also, like, bullies, and they bully the more like, alternative, you know, goth girls that maybe are artists.

[George Severis]

Well, they're literally encouraging you to get in line and support the team.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yes.

[George Severis]

They're like, stop being alternative support.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

They're based. They're also like. They are the precursor to being a PR Girly. Because what cheerleaders are. Cheerleaders are hired PR for the football team. And what the football team is, is basically the United States Army. So if you are a cheerleader, that means your role. Role is to put a kind, feminine face on something evil, which is men taking a running start and hitting their head hard on their rival's forehead.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

So. So it's like it. And then getting really bad brain damage from it. So if you are a cheerleader, you are complicit in a really, really awful way in crimes against people's health in. In. In warlike. In warlike culture and in the military industrial complex.

[George Severis]

I mean, George, you really, really nailed that.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Thank you.

[George Severis]

I have to say, I'm, like, trying to think of, like, what you might have missed. And quite frankly, I have nothing.

[Sam Taggart]

Don't you think? Also for me, as a cheerleader, though, no one was listening to us. And it's actually a very unhinged sport because we're out there. We're out there being like, you go, girl. You got this. When we have no. In the game.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

We literally aren't playing the game.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

But that's where the PR thing comes in. It's like being hired to write. Let's say you're hired by a political candidate to write messaging. It's like you're not in charge of what the actual policies are. Your job is to sell them. The policies might be violent, right wing, whatever, but it's your job to sell them, and that's what you guys are doing. You have no control over whether they win or lose.

[George Severis]

Lose.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, exactly. But nobody's buying us because this is what would happen, okay? Our team would be losing. Like, so, like, we're at zero points, and we still have to be out there being like, we go, girl. We got this. Like, we just look demented.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Totally.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure. And the crowd knows it. We're screaming at the players, like, trust us. Like, we're. We're like, you. We're gonna win. No, we're not. We've never won.

[George Severis]

Well, this really brings up something interesting and sad where it's like, when do you just give up as a cheerleader? Because your. Your whole thing sort of depends on the. The. The hope that you could win. And if there's no hope, you still have to.

[Sam Taggart]

You still have to do the same messaging when the. The proof is right in front of your eyes.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

So I don't know how much propaganda we're able to do actually. When it's like, well, girls, we can see our team sucks. And we're still doing. I'm doing aerial after aerial after aerial because no one else has a trick. I'm tired by. By. I have cornrows in my hair. Because the black girls on the squad were like, girl, we give you permission. We're gonna do it on you. Okay? So I'm out there just trying to make friends as an immigrant. You know what I mean? That's what cheerleading meant to me. And so whether. Whatever messaging I was promoting, Okay, I was. I was dizzy by the end from the aerials. I still had cornrows.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And our team still lost.

[George Severis]

Okay, so I'm hearing. I'm hearing the queer argument.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, that's what I. I'm hearing the queer argument.

[George Severis]

It's female friendship, first and foremost, and it is also, like. Like hope in the face of so much loss.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Exactly.

[George Severis]

Like, it's kind of like still believing that, like, we can destroy capitalism.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yes.

[George Severis]

When it's like, everything points to, like, no, we can't. Like, we're losing.

[Sam Taggart]

So wait, where did you hear any of that?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

No, we all heard it. And I think. Here's what I'm thinking. It's honestly, it's like there's a literal war going on right next to you, and you guys are making little zines with poetry. Like, it's the. It's the naivete of thinking that you doing A backflip could in any way help the team do better or worse. And there is something sort of. I think the. The. The act of being on the sidelines is very queer. Like, the act of. It's like, this is. This is mainstream culture. This is straight culture over here. What's happening, which is the football players, it's the coach, it's even the people watching. The people watching are also part of the mainstream culture. And then you're coming in and you're sort of this, like, side show. It's like you're doing. So in that sense, you're doing off.

[Sam Taggart]

Broadway a little bit. We all just want to be on stage.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

We want to be in theater, but, you know, theater was expensive. And, I mean, so was cheerleading. But we had, you know, we had, like, car washes and stuff like that. We raised money. But I wonder why we had to audition to get into theater. Not all of us could sing and stuff like that.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Did you not have to try out to get into the cheerleading squad?

[Sam Taggart]

We did, but, you know, it was very like, can you do a cartwheel?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

You got spirit. Yes.

[George Severis]

Sure. Sure.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

And then. Were there men?

[George Severis]

Yeah. Were there men?

[Sam Taggart]

They're. They're actually. Were. Not on. Not on our squad.

[George Severis]

Not on your squad.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

That checks out.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Here's my question for you, Sam. As someone who grew up in what I envision as like, an all American environment, you know, with whatever that entails.

[George Severis]

Sure.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

And I know what my answer is to this. Did the actual reality of the cheerleaders at your school fit in with the pop culture image we have of cheerleaders? Were they, in fact, the popular culture girls?

[George Severis]

I think for my. For the school I went to in Michigan, which was a much wider school, it. That was the case.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Okay.

[George Severis]

Like, it was a very. Like, how the media depicts high school is true. Like, the high school, the cheerleaders are popular, the jocks are popular, and, like, it trickles down from there and then. But then when I went to Virginia High School, which was a much more black school, it was, like, not necessarily the case. Like, it was way more. More, like, less clear who was, like, popular and who was not.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Okay, interesting, because I would say the years that I spent. And this was middle school, because then, you know, I was in America for high school, but in middle school, I was at, like, a relatively white high school. It was, like, sort of suburban, northeast. I would say the popular girls played, like, field hockey and lacrosse and maybe even. And maybe even soccer. Like, the popular girls also were expected to be Athletic in this way. And it was the. The. They were expected to be, like, athletic slash preppy. It was like lacrosse and they had little bows in their hairs. And the cheerleaders. There was something sad about the fact that they weren't the popular girls, but they thought that cheerleading would be an avenue into popularity.

[George Severis]

Well, interesting.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't. They weren't. They weren't. I mean, I think, you know, it was a mixed bag. Maybe some of them were also popular, but it was not in any way like cheerleading equals popular. I would say the most popular girls were doing the, like, white people sports.

[George Severis]

Oh, that is really interesting. I feel like we didn't have lacrosse and field hockey in those sports at my school.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, it's very. I think maybe that's northeast.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. It depends on what. Where the money is being sent to.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Totally.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Right. Where the. Where they invest. What sport they invest in. So our school also had golf. Like. Yes. Like the rich white people sports like golf and swimming, those were actually the more popular kids, so they were white, too. Interesting. So it's like, you know, it's where like, the richer. It's just like how the world works, you know, it's like wherever there's money. You know what I mean?

[George Severis]

Well, and that is the bigger through line is what I've always said is like, whoever had the most money in high school was the most popular, 100%.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

And I also actually am now realizing the money thing. If you have money or if you even like, grow up in an environment where you. You are feeling competitive and you're feeling like, I'm going to get into Harvard and I'm going to do whatever. You're much more likely as a girl to play a sport that will help you along those lines than you are to sign up to be, you know, just holding pom poms.

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Like you are basically a girl boss in training. Or like, lacrosse will lead to my Dartmouth application essay and then that will lead me to Goldman Sachs.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes, exactly. Sure, sure. And into world Dom. Yeah, yeah.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Now, let me. Let me ask you something, Otsuko. What is your relationship with pom poms?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, we. We had them. And do I still own them somewhere? I don't know. They picked up dirt real easily. Yeah, it was hard.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Did you feel like when you picked them up, it. You got excited and were like, ready to go?

[Sam Taggart]

What was I more excited about? I was more excited about. About doing the dances and the cheers. The pom poms. Yeah, Pom poms. Were fine. We didn't use them that much for some reason.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I'm asking because to me that is something that is so that's what takes it into this almost like self mocking thing. It's like if you don't have pom poms, you're doing dance and you're doing gymnastics. And it's easy to argue like we are doing something that is actually challenging. It is a real sport. You suddenly add pom poms to it and it's like you're making fun of these people. Like, it's like you're like a circus act.

[George Severis]

You're like, don't. Don't take me seriously. I'm just kidding.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I wonder if that's why we didn't use them as much because we also were trying to do stunts too, you know, like throwing girls.

[George Severis]

You were trying to lift.

[Sam Taggart]

Throwing girl. Throwing girls in the air, you know. Right. They had to do. You know.

[George Severis]

You were doing that self taught.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

That's so dangerous.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. But you know, you just. I mean, I was always on the bottom.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

I could never. But the girls on the top were very light. They were very light. It's almost like they were flying themselves. Know. We just kind of threw and like hoped and then we would catch them.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

You actually had to pull them down because they were floating.

[Sam Taggart]

They were floating. Yeah, they were like, oh, no, she's. She's so light.

[George Severis]

They're much like me right now after my food poisoning.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, they all had food poisoning.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. Oh, she's so ready for the Emmys, you know. And we had to. Yeah, we had to bring them back down. I wonder if that's why. Because we were like, you know. Yeah, I think the pom poms is more decoration.

[George Severis]

Honestly.

[Sam Taggart]

Honestly. And so, yeah, so we didn't use that as much. I think about those girls a lot, you know. And yeah, like you were saying with like Goldman Sachs, you gotta do. Yeah, the cross takes you there. You know, for us, cheerleading was like, it's like the save, we gotta save the community center down the street kind of energy.

[George Severis]

The way that you're describing this Chilean squad is very movie. It's very like cinema about like the rough and tumble squad that like has to then compete with the rich people and like they lose horribly but like they win. Friendship and whatever.

[Sam Taggart]

Right? There was friendship. And also it was good because, you know, I also was bad at academics to stay on the squad, you know, which meant a lot to us because it was community, it was friendship and. And also Discipline, because you had to keep a certain grade, of course, stay on the squad. So that also forced us to like, try not to fail in classes and stuff. Which. Which was good. You know what I mean? It was kind of. Yeah, it's like. It's like a gang.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

You really. You keep going back to the gang.

[George Severis]

You really want it to be a gang.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

You really want it to be a gang.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm like, gangs were not mentioned during this debate about straight or not.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

You're the only person on earth who could connect cheerleading to gangs. Over and over and over.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, they did it. They're the ones that said it.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I'm also. It's funny, I'm now thinking about. I'm thinking of bring it on. And I'm thinking about competitive cheerleaders cheerleading. And I'm also thinking about the recent story about how the Texas Cowboys cheerleaders finally reached a contract where they can be paid a living wage. And I'm just thinking there is something so inherently tragic, in a true Greek tragedy way about the sport of cheerleading. Because you are in this inherently supporting role. No one is quote unquote, there to see you. If you are the cheerleaders for a sporting game that people are at, it's.

[Sam Taggart]

The only sport where you're supporting another sport that people are actually there to see.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Exactly. And so within this definitionally second class citizenship, you are fighting for rights. But it's so difficult to make the argument because of course you are not at the quote unquote, at the level of the athlete, but because you are by definition the one supporting them. Like you are literally there to cheer them on. But then you still deserve higher pay and equal rights. And so you are in this bind where you will never actually reach equality. And it almost like mirrors, truly mirrors, like the struggle of women throughout history.

[George Severis]

Well, there's something about like the way cheerleading was founded. Because I do think the place where cheerleading is now, it is a sport. If you're like doing the. Like the competitions are insane. And the way that you have to be so good at it is insane.

[Sam Taggart]

It's wild because you're cheering nobody. You're cheering on nobody.

[George Severis]

You're like performing what it would be like to cheer someone on.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes, but it's just. It's just your mom's in the crowd because they drove you there.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And you're still doing full blown routines. Go, go, go. Generally go. What do you. Who are you pumping up? Just generally, everyone feel good. That's wild.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Well, it's like.

[George Severis]

And the Whole thing is, like, flawed from, like, from birth. Like, they've tried to take this thing and be like, it's, you know, in the 50s, it's like the girls cheering on the boys. And then it's like, okay, over time, it's become a genuine sport, but it's still based in the boys cheering people. So it's like, you have to, like, erase the past. We need to, like, restart cheerleading.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Do you know what it reminds me of now?

[George Severis]

It's just dance and gymnastics.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

It reminds me of beauty pageants. Because beauty pageants are inherently apparently, you know, just on a literal level, misogynistic. If it is a competition for who's most beautiful, of course that is, you know, a sexist event. But as they have evolved along with the times, it becomes a scholarship, it becomes also an interview portion where you prove that you are smart and worldly and thoughtful. And so then you're sort of are in this midway point where you can't win. Win. Like, you can't. You, like, can't argue that it's good and you can't argue that it's bad and you're not getting paid.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah, but you still have to be hot.

[George Severis]

You really have to be hot.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yes, exactly.

[Sam Taggart]

At the same time, but it's like.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

You have to be hot, but then you also have to be constantly talking about how amazing it is that you are in such a diverse group of people that are all hot.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. Yeah, totally. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, it's a. It's just for show. It's a vibe. It's a vibe.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

And I think that's actually the. That's the gayest thing about. I would say it's like the theater element of it, the costume element of it, the pom poms, the pageantry of it is very queer. But the fact that it is a barnacle on the side of, like, the NFL is what makes it straight.

[Sam Taggart]

Right, right, right. Yes. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Barnacle.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Okay, here's what I'm imagining. Hear me out. This is a. Okay, so the same way that you had your, like, girl friendship. Gay guys in high school need an outlet as well. And I think they almost need an anti cheerleading squad where they can, like, spread r lies about the opposing team and potentially, like, bring the vibe down a lot and be like, maybe have like a school Twitter account or something and just like, spray like, rancid lies about the other team and then they could all connect and have something to bond over.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

You're saying, you know, cheerleaders are as we've said, publicists. But what we need is bloggers.

[George Severis]

Literally. That's it.

[Sam Taggart]

Right?

[George Severis]

Every school needs its own Gawker.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. Are there uniforms, too, though?

[George Severis]

Yeah, Uniqlo is going to make the uniforms.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah, Uniqlo is going to make the uniforms. Are going to be really boxy.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God. Let them shine. Let them soar. These bloggers, you know.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

No, they have. From experience, I can tell you, bloggers are not allowed to shine. They have to remain in their basement in their. On their keyboards.

[Sam Taggart]

So the gays are just still like. Like locked indoors. Not their gays.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

But they can't be fabulous. They are. They're like. They're like Perez Hilton in cave. Drawing. Drawing. Come on, Misha Barton.

[Sam Taggart]

And the positive is, hey, at least you get to be gay.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Exactly. Yeah.

[George Severis]

At least you have other gay friends.

[Sam Taggart]

At least it's you. At least it's your authentic self. But you can't go outside.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And let me be doing dances. Nope.

[George Severis]

Nope.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

For many.

[George Severis]

Grab the computer, baby.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

For many gays, being on the computer and being mean is being their authentic self. Much more than, you know, whatever else the liberal media will have you believe.

[Sam Taggart]

No, of course, of course. But all of them. What if. I mean, and then some of them, you know, some of them want to be on the squad.

[George Severis]

Well, this is why it gets difficult to.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

We haven't even mentioned gay guys on the squad.

[Sam Taggart]

Exactly.

[George Severis]

Well, of course, that's the craziest part of it all, where it's like the way that the moment a guy is on the squad, his sexuality is called into the question in a huge way. And if he is straight, it's kind of like a straight guy being in theater, where it's like, if he is straight, like, I mean, it's much worse.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Of course, because a straight guy being in theater, at least you can be like, oh, that's a leading man. That's Marlon Brando.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

There's no equivalent of a straight. There's no, like, straight cheerleader role model.

[Sam Taggart]

Wait, can I tell you, though, there's four former. I know a lot about this because I've talked about. I talked about it a lot in my latest special, actually. But there were four U.S. presidents. Four former U.S. presidents. Former. Of course they're former four U.S. presidents for us. Trump, Trump, Trump and Trump who were cheerleaders.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Wow.

[George Severis]

Which ones? Which ones?

[Sam Taggart]

So it was Eisenhower, Ronald Reagan, George Bush. And then there was one more.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I mean, these are big, big ones.

[Sam Taggart]

Big ones.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Like, these are ones I've heard of. Let's say that.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[George Severis]

That is so surprising.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Wow. I actually do remember, you know, when liberals and Roosevelt.

[Sam Taggart]

Sorry.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Oh, wow. Fdr.

[Sam Taggart]

Or.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Or other one. Oh, my God.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, yeah, fdr. Yeah. Fdr, though. Yeah.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I do know about George W. Bush, because that was a classic case of liberals doing the thing where their acc. Homophobic. To criticize a Republican. Like, people being like, you think this guy can run the country? He's faggy.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, wow. Is that right?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

It's such a thing. It's like when people used to, like, make jokes about Trump and Putin making out or something.

[Sam Taggart]

I know. It's so stupid.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

It's like, take one breath and, like, think about what you're saying.

[Sam Taggart]

Mm, I know.

[George Severis]

Well, maybe there's something insidious about a male cheerleader.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Because you can, like. Because everyone's like, oh, you're probably gay. Where you can, like, almost, like, be more evil.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Well, you can.

[George Severis]

Literally. People, like, are assuming you're a cool gay guy. Well, that's why.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

No, it is literally true. That's why straight actors sexually harass. Because they're literally. They're there, they're on set, no one's suspecting them. Suddenly they're sexually harassing.

[George Severis]

You're supposed to be an actor.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

You're supposed to be an actor. Stop it.

[George Severis]

Wow, what an amazing point this is.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, well, so do we not choose?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

What have we decided?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I mean. Well, okay, how about this? Atsuko, what do you think? Based on the arguments you've heard today.

[Sam Taggart]

You guys made really, really, really solid points.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Thank you.

[Sam Taggart]

Where I'm like, maybe it is just straight.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

You know, but I also don't want to take away from the fact that it's got so many elements that, you know, are trying not to be the convention.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Right. And, you know, maybe some of the community it's built. Also some of the girls on my squad were totally with each other.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

You know what I'm gonna say? This is one of those classic instances where it is a straight concept, but queer people made it their own. And it is a story of resilience in the face of so much prejudice and hardship. And I think it's almost like how it's like how gay people made Disney gay.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Or like, Survivor even.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Or Survivor.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. And I will. Ready? Okay. That.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

All right. We did it.

[George Severis]

We did it. Well, that's been amazing. We should do our final segment.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Let's do our final segment.

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[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Listen to High Key, a new weekly podcast. You better listen. That's literally the definition of being an Aries Moon. Just one little spicy off comment, that's all it takes. Everyone loves me at the Cancer and then the Aries comes out and they said who the is that? No, you're gonna come for me being an Aries and you have a sag Moon. Get outta here. But I'm a Capricorn rising so that honestly balances it out and makes me more likable.

[George Severis]

Okay, that is your Capricorn talking.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Listen to High key on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[George Severis]

Let'S go. Our final segment is called Shout Outs and in this segment we pay homage to the grand strait tradition of the radio shout out. Giving a shout out to anything that we are enjoying. People, places, things, ideas. George and I will go first and I have one.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I have one too. Go ahead, you go first. Okay. What's up theater goers and off Broadway aficionados? I want to give a shout out to our friend George, Josh Sharp's new Off Broadway show directed by Sam Pinkleton called Ta Da. It is at the Greenwich House Theater. I had the privilege of going to opening night on my actual birthday. That is how I chose to spend my birthday. It was absolute heaven. Jennifer Lawrence was there. I had seen a version of the show two years ago, and I already thought it was great. But when I tell you it was elevated into real capital T theater. And to see someone essentially doing an elevated version of PowerPoint comedy, something we have seen so many times, and to pull it off so well, to have it be so nuanced and interesting and unexpected and to not at all have to, like, let go of the gay guy comedy sensibility, to just, like, commit to exactly who Josh is and to do it in a way that even Jennifer Lawrence can enjoy, I thought was so incredibly impressive. It really felt invigorating and really inspirational and. And I felt honored to be his friend. And I just want to say, Josh, you go chica. And if you're in New York City, I don't know how much tickets cost, but look it up and go see Josh Sharp. Ta Da. You will have an amazing time. By the way, it's 80 minutes. If you're worried about theater being three hours these days, you're going to get in, you're going to get out, you're going to have dinner via Crota. You're going to have an amazing night in Manhattan. And I love theater. I love off Broadway, and I love gay guys.

[Sam Taggart]

Woo.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Woo.

[George Severis]

Well, that was amazing. Seconded. And I can't wait to see it when I'm back one day. Okay, what's up, freaks, losers and perverts around the globe? I want to give a shout out to the TV show say Nothing through having food poisoning. I've been like, what TV show can I watch that doesn't step on what I watch with Misha? And I said, I don't think he wants to watch say Nothing. So I've been watching say Nothing and. And let me tell you, this show is to die for. First of all, Irish. Irish is trending. We all know this to be true. Second of all, you know, fighting an oppressive government. Baby, if you liked andor guess what? Say Nothing is andor but real. Get this. It happens in real life too much. Like food poisoning andor but real. All the performances are to die for. I find it both inspiring and a bummer. And it is so interesting. And I'm only for episodes in, but I can't wait to get deeper and deeper into say Nothing. Thanks, FX for the amazing prestige TV XOXO Sam.

[Sam Taggart]

Woo. Wow. I. I prepped something that was wrong, I think.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

What did you prep?

[Sam Taggart]

I thought we were supposed to like shout out something straight.

[George Severis]

Oh, no, it's just anything that we like.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

But you can shout out something straight.

[Sam Taggart]

I thought it was like, haha, shout out something straight. And I was like, wait, what?

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Honestly, I love that. I love that you're shouting out something straight. Go for it.

[Sam Taggart]

I. I don't want to.

[George Severis]

Well, you.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Or you can do whatever you want.

[Sam Taggart]

I can.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Up to you.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh God. I thought this was like an ironic, like, shout out something straight.

[George Severis]

It can be.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

It definitely can be. I mean, we've shouted out things we hate in the past. We've shouted out things ironically.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Okay, perfect. Am I like the worst guest?

[George Severis]

Not even close.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Actually, I. I loved this episode. And I loved debating cheerleading.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, here I go. Okay. I mean, I'm not good at this. Hey. Hey, you over there. That's who I'm talking to. Yep. Thanks for listening as always. Yep. And it's. It Be me, Atsuko Okatsuka, your girl, telling you, you know, I think Hailey Bieber, her skin is so pretty. It's so beautiful. Beautiful. And her skin care is, you know, I can't wait to try it. I. I just love looking like. I love looking at her face. I love her. I think it's cool. She. What she built, you know, and then she sold it for, I don't know, a billion dollars.

[George Severis]

I think so.

[Sam Taggart]

That was wild. Hope she uses it for good.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

She definitely will.

[Sam Taggart]

And she will. And that's. That's skin care for you.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I love that. Shouting out road. Road. Skin care. And they really need the press.

[Sam Taggart]

That's what it's called. Road.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

$1 billion. I'm sorry. She uses it.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Well, there's like no time to talk about this right now. But at some point we have to discuss the lie that is these companies.

[George Severis]

Yeah. The skincare thing must crumble.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Like, I just simply. I simply don't believe it. Like, you can't convince me that Hailey Bieber is a successful entrepreneur. You can't convince me that Kylie Jenner, like, who I. You cannot convince me that anyone is buying this stuff.

[George Severis]

I fully. George, I'm on board. I'm on board.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

I refuse to believe what Forbes.com is telling me. None of these people are billionaires.

[Sam Taggart]

There's that many faces in the world that need these products and they believe Hailey Bieber.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

There's so many existing skincare companies.

[Sam Taggart]

I know, I know. I think it's right that you have to be so good at branding. I mean, she keeps her face moist looking. Her face is.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Oh, she's wet, wet, wet.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. And so you're like, okay, that's the. I think that's the key to look, you know, in your 20s. But she is in her 20s. And so, you know, but that's how you sell, I guess. But there's drag queens, there's. Every pop star has a skincare line and makeup line, so it's hard to choose. So I don't know, it's. I guess that's one thing we spent a lot of money on. I know, as humans is like our.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Face, you know, it's tough. I recently did buy a lip mask that Sydney Sweeney recommended and I'm loving it.

[Sam Taggart]

Right. See, we all get influenced when it comes to our face. It's the first thing people see about you.

[George Severis]

That's true.

[Sam Taggart]

So I don't know.

[George Severis]

Well, damn.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Well, a topic for another time. But I just want to say this has been such a pleasure, Atsuko. And please tell people where they can find your special, where they can find your work, where they can find you.

[Sam Taggart]

I. Oh, I be at Otsuko Comedy on my socials and then, yeah, my latest special is on Hulu and Disney plus called Father.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Beautiful.

[George Severis]

Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for doing the podcast.

[Sam Taggart]

Thank you for having me.

[George Severis]

It was so fun. Bye. Podcast ends now.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month. Discord Access and more by heading to patreon.com stream and for all our visual.

[George Severis]

Learners, free full length video episodes are available on our YouTube.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Now get back to work.

[George Severis]

Stradio Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money players network and iHeart.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Podcasts, created and hosted by George Severis.

[George Severis]

And Sam Taggart, executive produced by Will Ferrell Hansani and Olivia Aguilar.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Co produced by Bay Wang Edited and.

[George Severis]

Engineered by Adam Avalos Artwork by Michael.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Fails and Matt Grubb Theme music by.

[George Severis]

Ben Kling.

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[Atsuko Okatsuka]

Honestly, honestly, honestly no one wants to think about HIV, but there are things that everyone can do to help prevent it. Things like prep. Prep stands for Pre Exposure Prophylaxis, and it means routinely taking prescription medicine before you're exposed to HIV to help reduce your chances of getting it. Prep can be about 99% effective when taken as prescribed. It doesn't protect against other STIs, though, so be sure to use condoms and other healthy sex practices. Ask a healthcare provider about all your prevention Options and visit findoutaboutprep.com to learn more.

[George Severis]

Sponsored by Gilead not all meals are created equal. For instance, breakfast has a spicy egg.

[Atsuko Okatsuka]

McMuffin for a limited at a time, and lunch doesn't. McDonald's breakfast.

[Sam Taggart]

This is an I Heart podcast.