George and Sam Call-In Show

Summary

Podcast Summary: StraightioLab – "George and Sam Call-In Show"

Podcast: StraightioLab (Big Money Players Network / iHeartPodcasts)
Episode: George and Sam Call-In Show
Date: August 26, 2025
Hosts: George Civeris & Sam Taggart

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Episode Overview

In this guestless, highly interactive episode, George and Sam host a "call-in show" where they answer a range of listener questions about straight and queer culture, personal quirks, pop culture trends, and the evolving landscape of identity and nostalgia. Expect witty banter, incisive cultural takes, and moments of genuine introspection, sprinkled with playful parodies and trademark comedic side tangents.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene & Podcasting Meta-Observations

• George and Sam are running late after a marathon session with Joe Firestone, noting they're "doing that thing where I talk and I'm surprising even myself" (02:33, George).
• Episode is “guestless,” highlighting the pressure and freedom they feel:

  "We don't even get a break when the other person is talking." (03:06, George)

On podcasting as a trend:

• Sam & George reflect on the evolution of podcasts, newsletters, and trends recycling (04:47–08:15), noting how ‘innovation’ is often a myth in capitalist society:

  "We believe too much in the mythology of capitalism and think we actually need innovation in order to sell a product... when in fact, what we need to do is just completely be frauds." (05:38, George)

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2. Call-In Segment #1: The "Fun Fact" Icebreaker

[10:22–17:52]

The Problem with "Fun Fact" Questions

• Both hosts agree that "Tell a fun fact about yourself" is a stressful, counterproductive icebreaker:

  "It's not doing the work that an icebreaker is supposed to do, because it's just saying talk." (10:39, Sam) "It's impossible to be funny about it because it's like putting a hat on a hat." (11:29, George)

Go-To Fun Facts

• George: “I went to high school in Greece” (12:01)
• Sam gravitates toward “medical maladies,” but questions their appropriateness:

  "I'm like, 'I can't see color.' And it's sort of like, well, that's not fun." (13:11, Sam)

Why the Icebreaker Fails

• The emptiness of “fun”:

  "The adjective fun... the complete vacuity of the word fun. What does it mean for a fact to be fun?" (14:17, George)

• The tension between bragging, sadness, or being boring.

Better Alternatives

• Both suggest more concrete, non-personality-encapsulating icebreakers:
  • “What was the last TV show you watched?”
  • “What’s the last song you listened to?”

  "It's better if it's specific. ... Don't try to have it encapsulate your entire personality." (16:09, George)

• Their own answers reveal personality: George watched "The Hunting Wives" out of curiosity and love for Malin Åkerman; Sam watched "Modern Family" after getting “gay married”, drawn to its blend of family values and California wholesomeness.

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3. Call-In Segment #2: Jokes That Only You Find Funny

[18:25–24:45]

• Caller asks about jokes or thoughts that amuse them but no one else (e.g., Terry Gross shrinking after each interview).
• The hosts share their own:
  • George: Finds the menu-description excess at high-end restaurants unintentionally funny, and tells a story about a fictional Harry Styles drummer raising funds to get “bang removal surgery.”
  • Sam: Can’t get over the inherently funny, awkward moment when cold water hits one’s genitals and everyone acknowledges it in a family setting.
  • Both riff on making parody lyrics–especially with Lorde’s “Favorite Daughter” (“I’m a fat actress”) and playing with the “Labubu” meme as a nonsense lyric.

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4. Straight Culture Check-In: Trends and Labubu

[24:54–25:55, 67:42–70:35]

• George and Sam discuss their allergy to viral fads like Labubu and Haktua, only to secretly want to participate once the initial hype passes.
• They create a parody Madonna rap about Labubu (“I’m having a Labubu... you know I love boo boo”).
• Reflect on collectible "ugly-cute" monster toys (Labubu, Beanie Babies, etc.), their role as capitalist objects, and their strange psychological appeal:

  “There’s something in us animalistically where we’re like... we need a little creature that is ours.” (68:07, Sam) "The people doing Labubus don't know about Beanie Babies. For them, this is the first time they're seeing something like this... when they're older, someone's going to invent flablubla, and they're going to be like, oh my god, this is just Labubu." (69:44, George)

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5. Is Trader Joe’s Straight or Gay?

[27:57–30:44]

• Both agree: Trader Joe’s is "liberal" and trends more straight, targeted at "Disney adults" and non-cooks.

  “It’s basically a grocery store for Disney adults.” (29:03, George)

  • It's approachable for people who don't feel comfortable in "normal" grocery stores.

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6. The State of Bush Culture (Grooming Trends)

[31:23–35:39]

• Both feel bush (body hair) is “in” among men, but there’s a broader cultural equilibrium/individual freedom:

  “We are in a very actually nice, balanced, liberated place with body hair... anyone can do whatever they want.” (33:58, George)

• Media depictions, however, still lean hairless (notable examples: Jacob Elordi, Andrew Scott, Timothee Chalamet).

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7. Haim Drug Comparison Game

[36:07–37:18]

• The hosts humorously assign the band Haim’s members to various drugs:
  • Esti = Molly ("I love everybody")
  • Danielle = Cocaine ("She’s business oriented")
  • Alana = Mushrooms ("She ... could be on mushrooms actually.")

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8. “Recency Bias” as a Gay Trait

[37:27–42:12]

• Caller wonders if “being gay is the same thing as recency bias” since gays are always chasing the newest thing.
• George jokes: "Drag name: Recency Bias." (38:04)
• Sam elaborates:

  "Straight people freeze often in what was happening when they were 25..." (38:59)

• George: "It's more straight to be past-oriented and more gay to be future-oriented." (39:22)

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9. Youth, Nostalgia & Pop Music (Nickelback, the Fray, etc.)

[42:24–47:19]

• Call from a youth residential counselor: today’s teens are into Nickelback, MGMT, The Fray, etc.
• George questions if their Nickelback appreciation is ironic, then points to the earnest renaissance of Journey for Millennials:

  "When millennials rediscovered Journey, was that ironic?" (45:18)

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10. Re-Closeting and Identity Shifts in Celebrities

[53:08–61:39]

• Discuss JoJo Siwa's “recloseting” (from lesbian identity to dating an older cis man) and Demi Lovato's pronoun journey.
• Both argue for deconstructing fixed identity vs. focusing on what people actually do:

  "I just don't care about trading identity markers as though they are flashcards... Tell me what you're up to." (58:35, George)

• “Closeting” is a specific term and doesn’t apply to changing one’s public label or dating different genders.

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11. Mini-Topics, Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Memorable Bits:
  • Parody lyrics centered on “Labubu.”
  • “Labubu is the new Beanie Baby/future flablubla.”
  • George: “Body hair is the pubes of the rest of the body.” (34:38)
  • “The recency bias is more of a problem when a person is flopping… ‘I hate her, I've always hated her, she's to die.’” (40:44, Sam)
  • Faux-conspiracies about "Corona" beer during COVID and the shifting meanings of names like “Isis.”
  • On Pamela Anderson and cultural comebacks: “It’s not about her being back, it’s about her being upright.” (61:34, George)
• Notable Quotes:
  • "You would think we are bad at business because we're anti capitalist. It's the opposite. It's that we believe too much in the mythology of capitalism..." (05:38, George)
  • "Audio only. You know, I want to say something, please. I had an alcoholic seltzer recently..." (04:47, Sam)
  • “The concept of icebreakers already worries me.” (15:22, George)
  • "Every culture invents the dragon." (68:07, Sam)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:26] Episode starts/"just wrapped a Joe Firestone marathon"
• [10:22] Caller: The "fun fact" icebreaker debate
• [18:25] Caller: Jokes you find funny that others don’t
• [24:54] Labubu, Haktua, fads, and meme cycles
• [27:57] Caller: Is Trader Joe’s straight or gay?
• [31:23] Caller: The state of bush (body hair) culture
• [36:07] Caller: Haim's “Heimlich” game with drugs
• [37:27] Caller: Is being gay the same as recency bias?
• [42:24] Caller: What do today’s troubled teens listen to? (Nickelback, MGMT, etc.)
• [53:08] Caller: “Re-closeting,” Jojo Siwa, and pop star identity
• [67:42] Collectible fads: Labubu, Beanie Babies, dragons

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Recap Tone and Structure

Playful, sharp, and self-aware, George and Sam toggle between deep dissections of seemingly trivial cultural phenomena and absurdist, highly specific in-jokes. They embody the podcast’s tagline: “finally get to the BOTTOM of mysterious and perverse topics.” Listeners are rewarded with a blend of cultural anthropology, confessional storytelling, and the hosts’ singular verbal chemistry.

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For Listeners New and Old

This episode is a quintessential, meta-StraightioLab experience: digressive, whip-smart, and endlessly referential—a trove of original takes for those curious about the intersecting tapestries of straight and queer culture, and anyone who ever fretted about coming up with a “fun fact” at a work retreat.

Transcript

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[George Severis]

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[Sam Taggart]

Podcast starts now. What is up everybody? It is just me and George today on Straight to Lab.

[George Severis]

Let's just say we literally just wrapped a two hour marathon session with the one and only Joe Firestone. It is quite literally we are running, I would say 45 minutes behind in this beautiful studio in this beautiful pair of studios because we are of course still bicoastal and we are, I was about to say, running on fumes. I don't think we're running on fumes. I just think I'm doing that thing where I talk and I'm surprising even myself with what's coming out of my mouth.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, that was a real episode where I was like, I'm going to need a nap after this.

[George Severis]

I know. And guess what? Instead of a nap, we have the opposite, which is a guestless episode. We don't even get a break when the other person is talking.

[Sam Taggart]

So one of us will be speaking at all times or else the episode will have to end.

[George Severis]

Wait, you still have a cold and you're doing this?

[Sam Taggart]

But barely. Just barely.

[George Severis]

But I have to say, you were absolutely killing it in the Joe episode. Could not tell you were immunocompromised in any way.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I have to agree. You were crushing it out there. And it was such a delight. What a treat. What a treat.

[George Severis]

We wanted to pretty much check in on what our callers have been calling about.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, this thing happens where we're like, call us, call us, call us. And then we completely are like, forget it exists and maybe even don't even respond. And then you today were like, wait, you were looking at the calls. And we were like, wait, we have so many calls.

[George Severis]

We each have things that we like keeping tabs on. And one of mine is the voicemail. I would say I have, you know, if we were in a little. In a startup, in a business environment, I would be like, oh, I own the voicemail. That's one of the things I own.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Whereas I, like, really keep tabs on the discord.

[George Severis]

Yes, that's right. You keep tabs on the discord more than I do. I keep tabs on the voicemail. I mean, there's something really fun about the voicemail. I don't know. I like the discord, of course, but.

[Sam Taggart]

The voicemail is so classic.

[George Severis]

It's not only classic, but it's like, especially because we now there's so much pressure to do video and to franchise and, you know, we're of course, working on various lines of tank tops and seltzers and socks. It's nice to remember where we came from, which is audio only.

[Sam Taggart]

Audio only. You know, I want to say something, please. I had an alcoholic seltzer recently and somebody was like, oh, you know, this guy in town invented these alcoholic seltzers and he's rich now. And I was kind of like, okay, well, he didn't invent alcoholic seltzer, he just made one and it's selling because he lives here. And, like, it's like a local brand. Like, I was kind of like, okay, you can't claim, like, I invented this alcoholic seltzer. It's like, not different than any other.

[George Severis]

Alcoholic seltzer in the world I founded this brand.

[Sam Taggart]

It drives me insane. And I think this is something that is part of our. We are, of course, the worst businessman on planet Earth. Well, and I think it's because we're like, well, if we're doing it, it has to be original. We have to be the first people to ever do it. We actually need to invent. And I'm like, like, we could literally slap our name on a seltzer and be like, dibs, we invented seltzer. And it's like, but we can't.

[George Severis]

You would think we are bad at business because we're anti capitalist. It's the opposite. It's that we believe too much in the mythology of capitalism and think we actually need innovation in order to sell a product. Like, we literally are like a slave to the system, to the American mythology of being an innovative small business owner, when in fact, what we need to do is just completely be frauds.

[Sam Taggart]

Completely be frauds.

[George Severis]

We need to literally invent crypto.com. we need to jump on the NFT trend. Three months late.

[Sam Taggart]

Steve Jobs already did what Steve Jobs is going to do.

[George Severis]

I know.

[Sam Taggart]

We're not going to be that. It's time to be like, we invented kombucha.

[George Severis]

No, we need to invent kombucha and fast. I've been finding this also with trends. Here's something, and let me know if you agree with this. There's this current thing of Matcha being a punchline, right?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

Like, oh, she, you know, she has a matcha on her way. Matcha latte. Correct me if I'm wrong. Was that not a punchline like 10 years ago?

[Sam Taggart]

No, you're completely correct. We're being gaslit.

[George Severis]

Am I?

[Sam Taggart]

Am I?

[George Severis]

I'm sorry, am I waking up in the film Girl Interrupted and Whoopi Goldberg is telling me, this is your last chance.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes, you literally are.

[George Severis]

Because I don't understand Matcha. We did an entire cycle on matcha during, by the way, the era of kombucha. It was very like 2000 and tens. The beginning of that sort of goop culture, which has been around forever for, at this point, 20 years.

[Sam Taggart]

No, I think people are really recycling jokes in a way that is shocking. You're like, we've already moved on from that and yet many people have not.

[George Severis]

This is also how I felt about newsletters, where there was a first round. And by the way, this also happened with podcasts, which maybe benefited us. So I'll hold my tongue there, but with newsletters, there was a First round of everyone's pivoting to newsletters, and then it, like, kept happening. And then suddenly, three years ago, it was like, the hot new thing is substack. Like, no, it's not.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I mean, you're completely correct. And to speak on the podcast element. I remember when we started this podcast, we were like, wow, we are probably the last new podcast that will ever start.

[George Severis]

Because again, we were brainwashed by the innovation mythology.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. And we were, by those standards, quite late.

[George Severis]

We were the third one to start.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

We were globally the third one to start.

[Sam Taggart]

And then it completely flipped. And now, like, post pandemic, when everyone was like, okay, now I have a podcast. I was like, wait, wait, wait, there's a. There's another wave.

[George Severis]

Do you remember when the stereotype in the beginning was that it was like a dude bro thing to do? It was like, oh, he lives in Williamsburg and has a beard and a podcast.

[Sam Taggart]

Let me guess, he has a podcast.

[George Severis]

And. And he likes craft. Craft cocktails now. I guess the stereotype is now that it's. That it's like former cast members of.

[Sam Taggart]

The Hills hosting the podcast.

[George Severis]

Yeah, like that. Like, it's a celeb now it's like a. Now the stereotype is B list celebrity.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure, sure, sure. It's replaced the talking dead, for example.

[George Severis]

Yes. So anyway, we wanted to check in on our favorite podcasters, which are people that leave calls.

[Sam Taggart]

And they are calls for the first podcast.

[George Severis]

Yes, they are micro podcasts. Mm.

[Sam Taggart]

Mm. So should we hit us with Hit. Hit the first one.

[George Severis]

Yes. And I will be. If anyone's watching, I will be on both my phone and my computer. That is the way it has worked out, and I will not apologize for it. We live in an age of information, and the more the better, I say.

[Sam Taggart]

And in solidarity, I will look at my phone intermittently.

[George Severis]

But you'll just sort of be on Instagram.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, Just sort of responding to messages and liking stuff.

[George Severis]

All right.

[Caller]

Hi, Steven. George. I wanted to know what you think about the tell a fun fact about yourself sort of icebreaker question. I think that it is the worst possible icebreaker question, and it makes me nervous every time it comes up because I feel like I need to have a bank of go to fun facts about myself, but I never commit the time to actually do that. And so I was wondering for you, if you guys have a go to fun fact that you kind of always share, if this is something that you have to do anymore. And then the second part to my question is, what do you think the Sort of go to icebreaker question should be in lieu of tell a fun fact about yourself. And then if you'd like to share some thoughts on why you think as a culture we are so insistent upon asking a fun fact about yourself. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that. Okay, bye.

[Sam Taggart]

Amazing question. And get used to hearing that, because I'm going to say that about every damn call.

[George Severis]

But this one is especially good because fun fact culture is exactly the kind of thing we like talking about.

[Sam Taggart]

I really think this is amazing. I personally, I agree. I think fun fact tell us a fun fact about yourself is not doing the work that an icebreaker is supposed to do, because it's just saying talk. It reminds me of when you take a personality quiz and you're like, oh, they're gonna figure me out. And it's just the questions are sort of like, is your personality angry? Is your personality funny? And it's like, well, you're supposed to be the one that's asking me covert questions so that I can figure this out. I'm coming to you because I don't know who I am.

[George Severis]

Right, exactly.

[Sam Taggart]

Telling you the fun fact. I'm like, well, I don't know.

[George Severis]

And of course, interestingly, the revelatory part of the question isn't the fun fact itself. It's, oh, this is what you think a fun fact is.

[Sam Taggart]

I want to know what you go to.

[George Severis]

So this is tough because, oh, here's the other thing. I'll say it's impossible to be funny about it because it's like putting a hat on a hat. It is asking you to say something whimsical. To say something, you know, unexpected. And so I don't know if I, like, try to do a bit with it. It's never going to hit, I would say, so. I would say I go pretty basic with it. I think if I'm, like, in a kind of summer camp environment, especially in America, then my fun fact is, like, a fun fact is, like, I went to high school in Greece because, like.

[Sam Taggart]

That'S an amazing fun fact. Oh, you're so lucky.

[George Severis]

People don't expect it. It's like a country that is not politically fraught. You know, no one's going to ask me, like, did I join the military? Like, it is. Everyone has. Everyone is like, oh, my God, I've always wanted to go there. Or like, oh, I used to be obsessed with ancient Greece. It's always something. One that I used to try out in a more adventurous period of my life. And it Never went well is I used to be able to. I can't do it anymore. I used to be able to hook my fingers behind my back and then bring them all the way around. Like I was sort of double jointed in that way.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Unfortunately, I can't do that anymore. But the issue with that is people immediately act disgusted. And I'm like, I promise I won't do it. I'm just telling you that's a fun fact about myself. But then immediately you're like the weird person that is talking about their body.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, and you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Because then if you don't do it, it's sort of like, well, show me. You can't just say you can do that and then not do it.

[George Severis]

Yeah, so those are my two that I can think of off the top of my head. The thing is, yeah, obviously an actual fun fact about yourself would be somehow braggy. And you don't, you don't want to. Like, it's like, well, it's brag.

[Sam Taggart]

It's either braggy or it's like sad. Like, that's what I struggle with. I honestly, I always quickly go to like medical maladies. Like, I'm like, what's wrong with me? Like, fun fact. And I'm like, I can't see color. And it's sort of like, well, that's not fun. I used to also, I would like be like, one of my eyes is like two colors. And so I'd be like, one of my eyes is two colors. And then people are like, wait, let me see. And then like a stranger is looking deeply into my eyes and I'm like, you've got to stop. This is. I did not consent to this.

[George Severis]

Needless to say, there is one best fun fact you can have. Do you want to know what it is? Yes, I do acted in something as a kid genius. Like, do you know what? Can you imagine just knowing you can whip out. I was the one of the little kids in heavyweights and then I. And then I didn't pursue it. And like I went to college and studied biology.

[Sam Taggart]

That is an amazing fun fact.

[George Severis]

And that is what everyone wants that. But not everyone can have it.

[Sam Taggart]

And honestly, very few people have it. There are no, I can't think of a second fun fact. It's like I was in a jet ski accident. That's what I go to also.

[George Severis]

Okay, we have to address the elephant in the room, which is the adjective fun. Because I think the issue here is the complete Vacuity of the word fun. What does it mean for a fact to be fun?

[Sam Taggart]

How can a fact be fun?

[George Severis]

A fact is either true or false.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, and that's why people go to, like, the Ripley's Believe it or not, because they're like, my toes are fucked up. That's, like, the most fun I can think of. Because all other facts are just facts.

[George Severis]

Correct. And I think the issue arises from the lack of consensus around what fun entails. Fun can be unexpected. Fun can be, as you're saying, like, tragic. Like, it's like, okay, so getting into an accident is a fun fact. It kind of counts. So it can be tragic. It can be something you. That happened to you or that you did yourself well.

[Sam Taggart]

And the saddest, of course, is when you're like, my fun fact is blank. And somebody's like, oh, I do that too. Yeah. And it's like, okay, sorry, I'm not unique. Like, we're literally getting to know you. I wouldn't have said it if I knew you also had that. It's disgusting. It's disgusting.

[George Severis]

So pretty much it's bad. I would have to agree that it is a perfect sort of straight topic. I'm trying to think if there are any alternatives as icebreakers that I would endorse. I think the concept of icebreakers already worries me.

[Sam Taggart]

See, I think the icebreaker, it needs to lead to a story or a conversation, and it needs to sort of be not something revealing until you reveal why it's revealing. I think a good icebreaker is like, what was the last TV show you watched? Or what was the last thing you googled? Or, what's the last song you listened to? Because then. Because when people are like, what's your favorite? It's like, well, I used to love this, but now I don't know if that's my favorite or. People, that's your favorite.

[George Severis]

Yes, you're absolutely right. And I think what you're pointing to is like, A, it's better if it's specific. B, don't try to have it encapsulate your entire personality and the significance of your entire life. It can just be a little thing.

[Sam Taggart]

And, like, for example, if it's like, what's the last show you watched? Like, what is your answer?

[George Severis]

The Hunting Wives.

[Sam Taggart]

And why?

[George Severis]

Because I was in a bad mood one day and I was very overworked, and I said, I normally would not press play on something as trashy as this, but I'm curious, and I sort of love Malin Aukerman. Because of the Comeback. And I'm, you know, I kind of want to see if she absolutely eats the this down. And next thing you know, I made episodes in and she is eating it.

[Sam Taggart]

So that's a perfect one. I learned so much about you. You are a workaholic. You are lgbtq. You have fine tastes, but you're not afraid of a little fun.

[George Severis]

Exactly. And you might have noticed I mentioned the Comeback so that you know that I do actually have good taste, despite the fact that I'm currently watching the Hunting Wives. What is the last TV show you watched?

[Sam Taggart]

Modern Family.

[George Severis]

Why?

[Sam Taggart]

Because ever since I got gay married, I am obsessed with Modern Family and I don't know why. There's something about the wholesome family value, but also in a Southern California liberal way that I'm like, eating up like candy, candy, candy right now.

[George Severis]

Literally. I know. What? I know that you just got married. Congratulations. I know that you live in California. I know that you have mixed feelings about domesticity and about assimilation into straight life. And I know that you have a sense of whimsy.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, this is perfect. It has to be something factual and something you almost can't control. Like the last thing. Whatever. Yeah, done. Great.

[George Severis]

Next question.

[Caller]

Hootie who? Glamour Girls. This is a message for Sam after the Fuck, Marry, kill discussion in the most recent call in show for the New York Times. I'm Michael Bavaro. This is my penis. Love you guys.

[George Severis]

Your response?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that was kind of hot. I could see that going further. I never expected that in a million years.

[Caller]

Hi, Sam and George. I'd like to know if you have a joke or just maybe like a thought that you think is funny and nobody else thinks is funny. I'm thinking not really, like a. Not like a stand up bit, but more just in your daily life, like a little thought that tickles you and you voice it to other people and it just doesn't land. They don't think it's funny. Thanks so much. Love the show, but I'm still here. And I was just thinking you could cut this part out, but I wanted to give an example just for clarity. So mine is that I like to think that every time Terry Gross does an interview that she gets a tiny bit smaller. And so whenever I hear somebody mention Terry Gross, I always to myself kind of murmur like, oh, she's so small now and it's not funny. Like, there's no, I'm laughing, oh, me too joke, really. But I just. It really tickles me that she gets a little bit smaller. Every time she conducts an interview. I hope that helps. Bye.

[Sam Taggart]

This is complicated. To ask us this and then to say, like, not stand up is really hard and I understand where your head's at. You're like, I want to know your day to day life. But like, we are constantly trying to find things funny. And as soon as we do, we're like, okay, we have to. If I think something is funny four times, I'm like, okay, well, I have to see if that exists on stage in some capacity. So I'm really trying to think of this. But, George, if you have one take.

[George Severis]

There are a couple that I can think of. I have the pleasure, in fact, of going to a lot of restaurants because of Matthew's job, because he has to go to restaurants for work. And so I notice a lot of tropes in restaurants that I used to not notice when I went. More rarely and oftentimes the server will really take too long to describe every single thing on the menu and go way into too much detail about, like, oh, first we took the chicken and caressed its right wing because we noticed that it suffered from anxiety. We decided that we were going to cook it in a tomato sauce, that we had the chicken, smell the tomato, which was grown in a neighboring farm, and decide which one he wanted to be buried with, you know, and it is so difficult for me to keep a straight face as this is all happening because the entire time I'm just thinking like, come on, we all know this is ridiculous. Yeah, we've all seen the menu. And I often will actually, like, start laughing and making it make it into a cough. Like, I'll just. I'll just like make it so. That's one for me.

[Sam Taggart]

That's a good one.

[George Severis]

I have one that is similar to the Terry Gross example, actually, which is. I think I've said this before on the podcast, but one time I went to a Harry Styles concert for a bachelorette party, and his drummer was this woman who had bangs. And my two friends and I kind of collaboratively came up with this joke that the woman's bangs were so big that she needed bang removal surgery. And the entire concert was a benefit to raise funds for her to get her bangs removed, which were growing so large that they were actually like a threat to the rest of her body. And so because of that, I've never been able to explain that in a way that actually makes other people laugh. But because of that, whenever someone, like, no longer has bangs, I like to imagine them as having survived, like a life threatening surgery. That they are in thousands of dollars of debts for because their bangs got too big and needed to be removed of.

[Sam Taggart]

That's a great one. I guess I'm really trying to think of one. And one thing I think is always kind of funny is when you're walking into a body of water, say an ocean or a lake, and it hits the part where your genitals are and everyone goes, ooh. And I'm always like, it's so crazy to be like with your family and being like. And that's where our genitals are. I've always gotten a kick out of that. And I don't know what to do with it, but it does make me laugh. And every time I walk into a body of water, I think about it. We're gonna hit the part where the genitals are.

[George Severis]

Wait. Another recent one for me is in the Lord song Favorite Daughter.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh my God, this is perfect.

[George Severis]

Thank you. When she says I'm a good actress. So Millennials, remember Kirsti Alley used to have a semi autobiographical short lived sitcom called Fat Actress. And Matthew started saying, I'm a fat actress. And so I started saying that. And then I started also replacing it with other things that rhymed. So we would be like, I work at Redress I.

[Sam Taggart]

As soon as you told me this, I've been saying I'm a fat actress all week long because you told me.

[George Severis]

That I And such a dramatic song that it would be funny if Lord was like, I'm a fat actress.

[Sam Taggart]

It's like, not far. Like, I'm like, oh, I could see her saying that. And then I. My version of this, which I cannot stop doing, is Caroline Polachek, welcome to my island. When she's like desire. Hey, hey, hey, hey. I keep going.

[George Severis]

La Boo Boo doesn't even rhyme.

[Sam Taggart]

To turn into you. I cannot stop making the Boo Boo parody songs. And I just. The word Labubu does hit so hard that.

[George Severis]

So speaking of Labubu, this episode originally was going to be us doing a kind of straight culture check in. Because Sam and I both have this thing where when something like Labubu or like Haktua is on the rise, we have a truly allergic reaction. We just. We can't believe how low we've fallen as a culture. We are so upset that we're even at the idea of even having a negative opinion about something. We just want to close our eyes and say, can we please just ride this out? Can I just skip the chapter of my life where I know what Labubu and Hok'tua are and Coldplay couple. I can't deal with these things. But then I've noticed something that happens with us is that then the time passes. And then when other people, when the people participating are tired of it, suddenly we're like, labubu.

[Sam Taggart]

It becomes fun again. There's like, when there's a sense of irony attached to it.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And now suddenly I am like. And because we avoid learning about it, I, like, still don't know what Labubu is. But now I'm suddenly like, wait, I kind of want to know.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I desperately want a Labubu. I cannot. They are so funny. The word is so crazy. So I. I love Lububu. The other day I did a parody song with Labubu that was, I'm getting a Labubu. I'm having a Labubu. You know, I love Boo Boo. And I'm the like Madonna rap from American Life. And it's like, this is so not on. This doesn't make any sense. But I was like, this is the funniest thing ever.

[George Severis]

I'm having a Labubu. I'm buying a Labubu. I have my Labubu. And you know, I'm satisfied.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm keeping my Labubu. And I love my little Boo Boo.

[George Severis]

And I still have my Labubu. Do you think I'm satisfied? I'd like to express my Labu Boo point of view.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm not a Christian. I'm not La Boo Boo.

[George Severis]

I'm just living out the American Boo. And I just realized, Labubu is.

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[George Severis]

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[Sam Taggart]

Are you. Are you playing me off?

[George Severis]

That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try.

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[George Severis]

From back to school to tackling your.

[Sam Taggart]

To do list, the Today show is your best start to the day. It's a new season and every morning we're here to help you take it all on.

[George Severis]

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[Sam Taggart]

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[Sam Taggart]

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[Caller]

Hi, Sam and George calling you from sunny Oakland, California. My question is, which is often a debate with my friend, who is another loyal listener, is Trader Joe's straight or gay? We are on opposite sides of the spectrum and we can never agree. So would love to hear what you think. Okay, love ya. Talk to you soon. Bye.

[Sam Taggart]

I think Trader Joe's is liberal.

[George Severis]

Mm.

[Sam Taggart]

I think Trader Joe's is lib roll.

[George Severis]

You think Trader Joe's that sign that's like, in this house, we believe immigrants are Americans. Black lives matter.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that's what I think. I think as far as gay or straight, I guess that leads me more straight. Like, there's something so sincere about a Trader Joe's. Like, even the silly snacks, it's like, this is a silly snack. And I'm like, but I could be. I could, I could be proven wrong if you wanted.

[George Severis]

No, I completely agree. I mean, it's basically a grocery store for Disney adults.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[George Severis]

It's just like it's. To have the fandom around it is uniquely immature. And I think part of that is that famously, it has terrible produce. So it's literally not for people that are cooking. It is. It feels like baby's first trip to the grocery store.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And I don't like the vibes.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I have no relationship with Trader Joe's. I've entered a Trader Joe's maybe three times in my entire life.

[George Severis]

I mean, so here's my relationship with Trader Joe's. When I first graduated from college, I lived in a big house with six other people in San Francisco. And we would go. And we, like, none of us made a lot of money. We would go as a group and get a giant order and put it on our split wise.

[Caller]

And.

[George Severis]

And we would have this giant order at home. And each of us is paying, like, $25 because it's so affordable. And we were making the frozen. The frozen mushroom risotto. And we were buying the boxed wine, boxed Trader Joe's brand wine. And we were buying, like, you know, snickerdoodles that were Trader Joe's branded. And it just. It's like, well, one day we'll graduate to real food. But this is. This is like, between college and real life.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. You describing it makes it be like, oh, it's actually shocking that I don't have a relationship with Trader Joe's because that is, unfortunately, the way that I dream of food being.

[George Severis]

Why do you think you. As someone who doesn't really cook.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

It would make sense if you did have a relationship to Trader Joe's, because I think it is an approachable grocery store for someone who Maybe doesn't feel 100% comfortable in a normal one.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, this is the amazing thing about me is I neither cook nor do I crave convenient foods. I'm just sort of like. Like, I crave, like, the adult. Like, I wish I cooked. And so it's sort of like I'm, like, in this middle place where I'm just like, well, I just won't eat. Like, I'm sort of like, okay, well, I'm just having, like, an apple today.

[George Severis]

Yeah, but you are also. You actually also have particular taste in food.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

You're not, like, happy eating at an airport?

[Sam Taggart]

No, no, I'm not. But I used to say.

[George Severis]

And you're not like Julio, who, like, eats tempeh, like, over the sink?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I did used to claim I wanted a dining hall for my whole life.

[George Severis]

Oh, interesting. Well, you would honestly love Trader Joe's then.

[Sam Taggart]

I know. It's too bad.

[Caller]

Hi, Sam and George. I am curious about the state of Bush culture right now. Are Bushes in or out? I feel like I've seen an uptick recently in people who are shaving bush, and I'm a little concerned. I'm curious if you guys are noticing the same thing. Is this a recession indicator? Are we now in fully a post Bush versus non Bush dichotomy? I'm also curious about what you're seeing in LA and New York.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, I think this depends more on your demographic. I feel that there was a community that, like, of gay guys here. I feel like that were, like, calling it, like, bush summer or something. Like, I've seen. I've heard the words bush summer to.

[George Severis]

Me off the top of my head. If you were to gun to my head is bush. Shinrad. I would say in.

[Sam Taggart]

I would say in. I can't. I haven't come across a shaven bush in a long time.

[George Severis]

I. Someone we know recently showed me a photo of a photograph they received on Grindr, and it was a completely shaven bush that had a Where's Waldo tattoo.

[Sam Taggart]

Whoa.

[George Severis]

So it was Waldo. It was Waldo and no hair.

[Sam Taggart]

That is so wild.

[George Severis]

But here's what that means to me. The people shaving their bush are the people with Where's Waldo tattoos.

[Sam Taggart]

That is interesting.

[George Severis]

It's niche. It's. It's no longer like that. You. You are out of the. You are out of the norm.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, if you're paying all that money for Where's Waldo tattoo, you're gonna shave the bush to show it off, Right?

[George Severis]

Exactly. Although, to me, I'm like, have him. Sorry, Hiding behind the bush. That's sort of his whole thing, is that he's hiding, and you have to find him. Like, it is completely besides the point if you're gonna have a Where's Waldo tattoo over there, to then expose it.

[Sam Taggart]

Completely, because that's the message.

[George Severis]

It's like, yeah, I found Waldo. That was easy.

[Sam Taggart]

That was easy. You needed to make it hard. How funny to be digging through someone's pubes and be like, is that Waldo? And then they're like, you found him.

[George Severis]

Exactly. Hello. Why don't you ruin the childish, childlike joy I would get doing that?

[Sam Taggart]

Anyways, Let me experience discovery.

[George Severis]

No liter. But no, I think, to me, I think when it comes to men, because I can't speak for women, we are in a very actually nice, balanced, liberated place with body hair. I feel like we've gone in both ends of the spectrum, and now I genuinely feel like anyone can do whatever they want.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I feel that way as well. I wonder if that's actually happening or if it's just that we're getting older and everyone gets more comfortable as they age. I can't tell.

[George Severis]

That's true. Well, okay, here's a way to answer that. What is happening in media depictions? Because, in fact, now that I'm thinking about it, it is true that we're going in a more hairless direction. If you think about Jacob Elordi, even all of the, like, Andrew Scott And Paul Mescal and Timothee Chalamet. Even Pedro Pascal is actually being waxed head to toe.

[Sam Taggart]

I know, I am trying to think, but I have to assume Pedro has pubes. Pubes, yes. He's a man of the people.

[George Severis]

You know, body hair is the pubes of the rest of the body. And I it. Because we can't actually show pubes on tv. It's a showing body hair is a. Is a bat signal to say bush is.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, that's a good point. That's a good point.

[George Severis]

And who is the hairiest famous man right now?

[Sam Taggart]

You're right. I can't think of a one. I can't think of one hairy famous man.

[George Severis]

The one I can think of is the one guy from Gilded age. You know what? You know that guy?

[Sam Taggart]

No, I don't know that guy.

[George Severis]

Look up Morgan Spector.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, was he the one that said like straight people can be tops and bottoms?

[George Severis]

Yes. Correct.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Okay, sure.

[George Severis]

So here's the thing. Obviously he is, but he. It's. Sorry, but it is such a respectable, groomed kind of. Harry. Yeah, no, I don't know. Now, now I'm. Now I'm worried. I'm worried.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, everybody grow out your pubes. It's an active resistance.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And time is honestly running out.

[Sam Taggart]

Yep.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Caller]

Hi, George and Sam. Because I'm a 50 year old woman, I don't actually know who Haim is or who I'm are not sure of the correct subject, verb agreement. But I would like you to play the Heimlich game with these three drugs. Cocaine, Molly and mushrooms. And in general, I'd love to hear more about your relationship and experiences with drugs. Thank you so much for making life more interesting.

[George Severis]

Okay. Hey, game with Molly, mushrooms and cocaine.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. I think, I kind of think Esti is Molly.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Because there's something about her where she's just like, I love everybody. I kind of think Danielle might be cocaine because she's business oriented.

[George Severis]

Totally.

[Sam Taggart]

And I think that means Alana is mushrooms.

[George Severis]

Alana's mushrooms. Because she's. She does have a sort of distant look in her eyes sometimes. And she could be on mushrooms actually.

[Sam Taggart]

And she seems like she has a chill about her while still being kind of productive.

[George Severis]

Yes, I agree. And I think she has a sort of sense of being one with her surroundings.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[George Severis]

She doesn't have the laser focus that I'm seeing in Danielle and Esti. But much like many people who have had life altering experiences with mushrooms, she also is kind of doing amazing in life.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I Agree. She sees through.

[George Severis]

Great.

[Sam Taggart]

We nailed that.

[George Severis]

All right.

[Sam Taggart]

And our experience with drugs is we don't touch the stuff.

[George Severis]

Yeah, that's right. Oh, this is a really good one.

[Caller]

Hi, Sam and George. I dialed 1-800-Gay-Guests, which was like a porn call in thing. So can you guys, like reimburse me for any charges I might have gone into when I was there? Additionally, my original question was, do you think being gay is the same thing as recency bias? Like, every gay guy gets so excited by every new thing and then we never talk about it again. Adele's 30, the new Lord single that we're inevitably not going to talk about in like two weeks. I just really think that recency bias is the same thing as being gay. Thanks.

[George Severis]

So I just want to say that was May 30th. That's why the Lord single was relevant. This person didn't just wake up from a coma. So first of all, I actually was really talk about something that only made me laugh. As I was listening to this call, I said to myself, drag name recency bias. And then I literally chuckled out loud on the street.

[Sam Taggart]

That's amazing.

[George Severis]

What do you think about this theory?

[Sam Taggart]

I think. Well, I think this could be seen in two ways where, like, the recency bias is real. Like, I do think gay guys really love to be like, on what's now. And, you know, they'll be 45 and standing a 16 year old pop girl. And that's like. I think that is like, kind of interesting and fun. But there's like, the other side of that is that like straight people freeze often in like what was happening when they were 25.

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

And so. And they don't have shame about that. I think gay guys obviously look back on what happened when they were 25 and like love that. And they're like, you weren't there. You weren't there. But then I think there's a. There's still a yearning to learn what's happening and to like, believe the youth and be like, maybe there's a point to this song. Maybe there's a point to this singer that I don't think straight people haven't seen.

[George Severis]

Totally. I think it's more straight to be past oriented and more gay to be future oriented.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Which is why the only person that has managed to capture both communities is Dua Lipa with future nostalgia.

[Sam Taggart]

There was something I. I remember being like, because I am older than Lorde. I am older than Lord. I don't remember our age gap, but I am older than Lorde. Like, I was in my 20s when royals came out, and I remember being like, okay, this girl is 16, and I am, let's say, 24, potentially. I was living in New York, and I was like, am I going to Stan a 16 year old? And I was like, that can't be me. And then I remember talk about a fork in the road and being like, you know What? I'm actually 24, and I'm only going to get older, and the girls are going to keep being 16 to 20, and so I'm going to start stanning them no matter what. And I'm not going to resist. I'm just going to run towards it. And I think that was a huge point of change for me.

[George Severis]

Yeah. No, it's interesting. Recency bias, of course, can be limiting in some ways. It's like, well, if you don't know history, you're doomed to repeat it. But then it can also be a very positive thing in that you are keeping an open mind and taking new things seriously and not taking things from your past more seriously because they are connected to you, which is how we get, quite frankly, fascism, which I do.

[Sam Taggart]

Think gay guys are all right. There's also something like the recency bias more as an issue. I think when. When a person is flopping, like, when a person is flopping, they're like, I hate her. I've always hated her. She's to die. That's a really good point. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And I'm like, yeah, but you have to understand, like, you're. You have a bias because you loved her when she was fresh, and now that she's, like, been around for a while, there's not that element of surprise. And you're forgetting that there's a whole arc that we're all gonna go on.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I agree with that. And I actually think it is somewhat healthier to do the thing that, let's say a straight. Like, let's say someone who loves Tarantino, like, that person's never gonna forget Pulp Fiction. They're not gonna be like, well, his latest was bad, so now I don't like him anymore.

[Sam Taggart]

Exactly.

[George Severis]

And I do think there's something nice about that kind of loyalty. And I actually think it is necessary for a fan to remember the things they did like, because that helps them give the benefit of the doubt to the new things that they might not immediately connect with.

[Sam Taggart]

And it's like, if you take them seriously as an artist, you should care when they make a mistake as much as when they make a hit. Because it's, like, interesting to see what they were thinking and why.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Sorry to be a genius.

[George Severis]

No, no, that's absolutely genius. Do you think recency bias also? I'm trying to think if there's any way to use this lens to talk about something that isn't pop culture and pop music, like, is.

[Sam Taggart]

It got me there.

[George Severis]

You know what I mean? I'm like, is there something about how being open to new experience? No, let's move on.

[Caller]

Hi, I was just listening to your episode about yo yos, and in it, you ask what the youth today is like, their Dave and Matthews Band. I work with teens at a residential treatment center. So it's a specific population, but it's like teens who have tried to kill themselves. Super cool. I love them. And here's what they love to listen to from older. And I say to tell you, it's Nickelback. They all love nickelback. They love MTMT. They, like, love music from 20, like, 2005 to 2011, I would say the Fray. I get asked to play that how to Save a Life song all the time. So sorry, Kid Cudi. Pursuit of the song Pursuit of Happiness is going to be, like, on my Spotify wrapped, I swear to God. So they all still have really positive feelings about Kanye. I want you to know that as well. Chance the Rapper is still huge asap. Rocky still huge. So, yeah, they didn't know who Destiny's Child was, so, like, that's just some context for where the kids are at today. Okay, love you, bye.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm sorry. That was the most shocking call I've ever heard in so many ways. At first I was like, I'm listening. I'm nodding. I'm agreeing. I had a point to make about Nickelback being. Yeah, like, I think there's a difference there that you're not acknowledging where, like, Nickelback is a little bit ironic. Whereas, like. And, like, they like it, but it's. There's like a sense of LOL to it. And then like, Kid Cudi, I was like, oh, how fun. Like, Pursuit of Happiness is always going to be a hit. Put it on, put it on, put it on. Kanye, I get. They can sort of zoom out and be like, you know, he's crazy. But look, listen to these hits from the past. And then like, but you really, really lost me. I have to be honest. And Chance the Rapper.

[George Severis]

Wait, say more.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I was there. I loved Chance the Rapper. You know, acid rap was to die for. And then coloring book, the one that Kanye produced was really great. And Then I was. And then he fell off in such a big way. And I don't know, I'm surprised that the youth like him because everything I see online and otherwise is sort of still treating him a little bit like a joke and like someone who feels fell off really hard.

[George Severis]

He's a very, like, quintessential millennial artist.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes. Very sincere. Very like, like earnestly look, I. Look at what I did. I'm here. Corny is. I'm getting the note.

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. So I don't know. What do you think about that?

[George Severis]

I mean, it is. The irony point is interesting because I genuinely. I understand what you're saying about Nickelback fandom being semi ironic, but here's my counterpoint to that. Like, when Millennials rediscovered Journey, was that ironic?

[Sam Taggart]

Ooh, Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[George Severis]

Because there was a point when people. When Don't Stop Believin was like, earnestly back. And then, of course, there was a backlash and there were people being like, well, whatever you do, don't play Journey at your wedding. But there was a point when that was back earnestly.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, you're right.

[George Severis]

And I almost think it's like, maybe older people are doing the ironic Nickelback thing, and younger people who weren't alive for the absolute reputation end of Nickelback just, you know, are interpreting the way the first listeners did, which is that they liked it. I mean, people forget. That was a very. Those are very popular songs.

[Sam Taggart]

That is a very interesting read. And I think you could be right. I think you could be right. And you're changing my perspective and it's obviously scaring me and I'm going to need time to process that.

[George Severis]

Of course. I mean, I have to say, it's interesting. The ones you pointed out, the one that stuck out to me. And maybe there's some online thing I don't know about the Fray.

[Sam Taggart]

So this didn't freak me out because I feel like this style is coming back. I think the sincerity is fun. And I do think people are like, craving, like, a. Obviously they were a huge band, but they kind of had like a Coldplay esque, like, in the beginning, like, almost like an indie sensibility that they did really big. And I think when we were growing up and they were like, coming up, we could sort of like sell the difference in the context and be like, they're more produced, they're more blank. They're more blank, but without the context, it's kind of like. No, they're like a sort of like an indie pop piano band. I think you think of Them in that almost indie thing.

[George Severis]

Do you know who I think would be a great addition to this list is Jet. Are you gonna be my girl? As something that randomly young people are.

[Sam Taggart]

Into, I think you're 100% right. I think we will be having a Jet renaissance before we know it.

[George Severis]

Huh? Well, you know, we touched on this a little bit in our episode with Josh Gondelman, but if you happen to be on Twitter over the last couple of weeks, you saw a debate about the Edward Sharp and the Magnetic Zero song Home, which actually did make me feel kind of nuts.

[Sam Taggart]

It did make me feel nuts. And I actually want to say that the other night I couldn't sleep because I was thinking about what I said during that episode, and I was like, do I agree with it or do I. It was one of those things. I rarely regret what I say on this podcast or even question it. I'm also like, if I said it, whatever, I believed it in the moment. Move on. And then for that, I was like, am I going to be on record for forever being like, actually, Edward Sharp of the Magnetic Zeroes was different than the Lumineers and Mumford and Sons. And I was like, I don't know if I'm going to want that to be.

[George Severis]

Was your point that Edward Sharp and the Magnetic Zeroes were more or less cool?

[Sam Taggart]

I argue they were more cool and they were more at, like, the Mumford and Sons heard them and was like, we can do this with more of a commercial viewpoint.

[George Severis]

This is interesting because I have to say, to me, I was not into indie rock at the time. When I think of what I was listening to in the 2010s, I was like, I was of new stuff. Well, first of all, I was listening to Nico Case and Fiona Apple. But then I was like, okay. I was interested in some of the more electronic things that were happening. I was really into Grimes, I was into Sky Ferreira. To me, all of those bands. I became aware of them first as punchlines and then as something I got into a good example of. This is Vampire Weekend. First, I. I first learned a Vampire Weekend as something people made fun of. And then I, like, did some digging, and I was like, you know what? I actually. I don't care what people say. I actually like this. And then I do think they've sort of stood the test of time in the way that now they're no longer a punchline.

[Sam Taggart]

That is so interesting, because my especially Vampire Weekend, they were like, an essential for me.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Where it was also like, I got the leak like two months before the album came out and me and my friends were listening to it and we were like, fuck, this is fucking good.

[George Severis]

Wait. I actually do want to say that the indie rock that I liked was. It was like Grizzly Bear, local natives, Yea Sayer. Like, it was that. Where do you think that fits? It was, it was the. It was not like the sort of Americana stomp clap.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. And I want to be clear. I wasn't listening to Edward Sharp of the Magnetic Zeros. I just knew it better. I knew it first as like the thing. Like, I was sort of like, I can listen when home is on. I'm not complaining. Whereas whenever Munford and Sons came on, I was like, get this shit away from me.

[George Severis]

Got it.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, I was like, this era's over. But I did go into, I did love, like, Vampire Weekend. I love the like, you know, preppiness, the like boat shoe vibe. Like I was an American Apparel boat shoes diva.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Or like, you know what I, you know, what was I like like? Future Islands.

[Sam Taggart]

I loved Future Islands. Oh, my God.

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[Caller]

This is Annabelle calling from Massachusetts. My question today is less of a and more of a pop. And by that I mean less of a personal question and more of a pop culture question. I recall recently on the POD a discussion of when Demi Lovato was famously in her Zemi era and then was kind of like nevermind. And I've just thinking about that concept specifically re the Jojo Siwa recloseting if that is a term by which I mean of course the phenomenon in which JoJo Siwa went on Big Brother after coming out as a lesbian, started a relationship with a white man who is cis and 10 years older than her and was kind of like never mind, I'm not a lesbian anymore I guess as they are now officially dating and just wondering if you could share some thoughts on that and if there is an official term for that type of phenomenon where somebody goes back into the closet or comes back out as Cisco. I've thrown around the term neverminders. I famously mentioned the term re closeting. Just wondering about your thoughts on that as I feel that I've sensed a shift in the pop where more and more people are doing this over the last couple of Years. Anyway, love the pod. Keep up the great work. And Sam, don't let the unemployment get you down. You are going to be in your creative diva era. Anyway, love you guys. Bye.

[George Severis]

First of all, I like the terminology of per versus pop, personal versus pop culture. And I want to say, I want to say the purr is pop, meaning the personal is pop culture.

[Sam Taggart]

When it comes to gay guys.

[George Severis]

That famous phrase. So what do you think about this?

[Sam Taggart]

First of all, I think it's. I think it's just living out loud.

[George Severis]

I agree.

[Sam Taggart]

I actually think it's so cool that Demi Lovato was like, I ne them and then was like, never mind. Like, there's something about that where I'm like, good for you. Like you. Because you do have to like try it out, like feel it out. Like, we all have different relationships to our gender and our sexuality. And it's like sometimes you're like, maybe I'm this. And then like you do want people to respect you with it and be like, okay, I'm this now. And then you're like, ah, whatever. I don't need to be that anymore. Like, I'm kind of like, go off.

[George Severis]

It's funny. I cannot begin to imagine what Demi Lovato's information intake is.

[Sam Taggart]

Start there.

[George Severis]

I would love to know because you're already starting from a point of. Demi Lovato knows all the relevant definitions, took that in, noticed how she felt about her own gender and then was like, got it. So from these options, I am they them. I think it is so much more avant garde than that. I think Demi, like read one thing was like, they that is fab. Like, that sounds like I'm multiple people and like maybe had a friend that taught her a new phrase. I think she's like a very open minded person that is wanting to sort of like participate in things that are going on. I think she also probably does feel. What's the word? Like entrapped by the kind of like expectations of femininity that anyone would feel as like a big pop star that. Whose job is to have long hair and belt out tunes while wearing a. A little bikini. And so it's sort of like out of all of that, it was like it all went into the cauldron and what came out was they them.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, no, I think that's a good read. I. Yeah, I think you're correct and there's something. But I am just sort of like calling especially the jojo siwa thing, like calling it like re closet. I'm like, oh, there's not going back in the closet. Like, it's more like an expansion of what totally this house is.

[George Severis]

I also. It's like Demi Lovato. If anything, Demi Lovato becomes more LGBTQ plus when she goes back to she. Her.

[Sam Taggart]

Of course.

[George Severis]

I think the JoJo Siwa thing I'm so uninterested in analyzing because JoJo Siwa is just so young and has had such strange life experiences that, yes, she's gonna go ahead and have a turbulent sort of time period between the ages of 16 and 26, and we'll sort of see where she comes out when that's over. On a broader level, I think one fun thing we could all do is move away from the framework being identity and towards a framework of action. I just don't care about trading identity markers as though they are flashcards and as though it's like, oh, no, this one declined. Declined. I guess I'll have this one. Oh, now I'm doing this one. Tell me what you're up to.

[Sam Taggart]

Tell me what you're up to. Tell me what you're doing.

[George Severis]

Like, I want. And that's more interesting because then now we have a. Because guess what identity is. That's just establishing characters. But we still need a story.

[Sam Taggart]

And for someone like JoJo Siwa, I know you just said it's uninteresting, but, like, JoJo Siwa is hooking up with this guy. Like, I'm sort of like, go off. I don't care if she's still like, I'm a lesbian and I have a boyfriend now. I'm like, exactly. Who cares? Like, all I care about is what you're up to. And you. You are doing something weird. And I love that.

[George Severis]

Like, the interesting thing is the narrative that happened on whatever show Big Brother or whatever show she was on. And then. And. And like, that and that budding relationship rather than, like, wait, first she was with a woman and now she's with a man? What does that mean for her? Fixed. What is her passport gonna say?

[Sam Taggart]

It's very legal. It's very legal. And it's like, you guys, it's not a legal document. Like, it's so not like that.

[George Severis]

Also, that's not what closet means.

[Sam Taggart]

Literally. Literally.

[George Severis]

Going back in the closet, especially in entertainment, is a very specific thing. What it means is what Pee Wee Herman did. It means being out in your private. In your, you know, among your family and friends. Then because you are becoming famous, no longer. Being out.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Publicly.

[Sam Taggart]

And being like. And literally lying and being like, I am dating this random woman to be like, because you're hiding your sexuality.

[George Severis]

Correct. You know what is liberating? Literally just becoming gay or straight whenever you want.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[George Severis]

It's the opposite of being in the closet. You are, in fact, in control of your sexuality.

[Sam Taggart]

Closet doesn't just mean gay. Why are we like this?

[George Severis]

I don't know. I don't know what. I don't know who I'm even targeting. My ingrat.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm also just so pro, as you know. I'm, like, so pro Demi Loudo right now, which, as you, is a huge shift for me. If, you know, I don't know if you remember my very old joke that was like a quote unquote gay dad joke where my dad would say, I'd rather have a bottle or I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. And then I would. And then my version of that was, I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a Demi Lovato in front of me. And. But now I'm like, I was so wrong. I think she is a beautiful artist, and I think she is a tortured soul, and I think she is. Everything she does is through hard work and persistence, and I celebrate her.

[George Severis]

So I do think to go back to the recency bias thing, there is something that we have, which is the tortured women of our youth we will, of course, always support. And I think it's great that Demi Lovato is still releasing good music by all accounts. But even if she wasn't, it doesn't matter. Like, and I'm actually, like, I feel this way with Lindsay Lohan where people keep being like, she's back, she's back. She's never gonna be back.

[Sam Taggart]

She's never gonna be back, folks. But I still support her, and I'm glad she's working.

[George Severis]

Yeah. It's not about her being back. It's about her being upright.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Which is also, actually, I will say someone who is back is Pam Anderson, but she's back. But even if she wasn't back, I'd be like, no, we are supporting you.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God, she's so back. Well, you didn't tell me what you thought of Naked Gun, by the way.

[George Severis]

Loved it.

[Sam Taggart]

Loved it. What a treat when she scats. Come on.

[George Severis]

Well, I will say my one complaint is, I'm like, she was so good at. She was so good when she was given meaty stuff to do that I'm like, give her, like, two more.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, she needed two more. She was so good.

[George Severis]

No, she was so great. It really, I mean, what are the chances that this would happen for her? And I know at this stage, it's. It's almost like perfectly orchestrated by like a. A dark web of sort of CIA powered gay guys.

[Sam Taggart]

Couldn't agree more. I've got to get to those gay guy parties.

[George Severis]

I know. Literally. What if that happens for Carmen Electra?

[Sam Taggart]

I guess that'd be cool. I don't know much about her, to be honest.

[George Severis]

She, to me. Am I wrong that there was a time when those were like the big two, like, porny.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. That's the name for hot. Carmen Electra. A name synonymous with.

[George Severis]

Yes, Carmen Electra. Like, come on.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it's like, you're not attracted to Carmen Electra. Kill yourself.

[George Severis]

No, she. It was literally. It would be like the cat. She'd be doing a cameo in a movie. And the joke is, oh, my God, he dated Carmen Electra.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Severis]

So I have no idea what she's up to.

[Sam Taggart]

And I also think with. When it comes to. So Carmen Electra obviously has a leg up because the name itself is a sexy name. Carmen Electro. Oh, and like, whereas Pamela Anderson. She made Pamela sexy and say that.

[George Severis]

No, it's actually crazy what she did.

[Sam Taggart]

You know what is trailblazer?

[George Severis]

You know what? It's similar to Barbie, the doll making the name Barbara, like, youthful.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God.

[George Severis]

Can you believe that the name Barbie is a grandmother's name?

[Sam Taggart]

That is amazing. You know what I was thinking? This is not related at all. You know what I was thinking? This is similar to the things that we think are funny that aren't like jokes or anything. Novel Coronavirus. So it's called. It's called novel because it was new. Yes, that's literally it.

[George Severis]

What do you think it was called?

[Sam Taggart]

How novel? This coronavirus. Like, I'm like, that is crazy. I thought it was just like the novel coronavirus. I thought it was like the novel coronavirus. I was like, you don't need to put novel every time. Then like, it's just like. Just call it the coronavirus.

[George Severis]

Oh, God, now I'm gonna sound so stupid.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God.

[George Severis]

How novel is it? Because the term virus could also refer.

[Sam Taggart]

To something else or like, oh, God, don't, don't. Don't do this.

[George Severis]

And what is Covid? What are the. What are the initials of COVID Well.

[Sam Taggart]

My big conspiracy, of course, is that Corona. The company made them stop saying it.

[George Severis]

Oh, interesting. And of course, my big. And of course my big conspiracy is that vaccines don't work.

[Sam Taggart]

God, I remember getting a case of Coronas when that virus was hidden and going, this doesn't feel right. This does not feel right.

[George Severis]

I mean, can you imagine?

[Sam Taggart]

Just because I wanted them, I wanted a beer.

[George Severis]

You know what it reminds me of? It used to be. People don't remember. It used to be that the name ISIS was a really beautiful name for a girl.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God.

[George Severis]

And like, it was like an alt name. It was like being named Astrid.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Imagine if Astrid was the new terrorist group. The new terrorist group. My head got cut off by Astrid. That would be a nightmare.

[George Severis]

That's tough.

[Sam Taggart]

Fuck. I think if you were a cool girl named Isis, I think you should just be allowed a free pass to change your name to Astrid.

[George Severis]

Oh, that's a good idea. They should pass a law.

[Sam Taggart]

They should pass a law. Be like, you're no longer Isis, you're Astrid.

[George Severis]

Okay. I like that, actually.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Yeah. It's sad because it actually is a cool name.

[Sam Taggart]

It's a cool name.

[George Severis]

And Corona is a great name for a beer.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God. Corona. Beautiful. The novel Coronavirus. Oh, how novel.

[George Severis]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sam Taggart]

Little scientists. Well, isn't that novel? I've never seen this one. I hate it. I wanna go fast.

[George Severis]

We have been through so much in the last six years, and thank God we've been here to document it all.

[Sam Taggart]

I know. One day, I actually am excited for our podcast to be in a museum about what it was like to live through the pandemic.

[George Severis]

No, it's. It will be. And it will be the episode where Dan Licata's topic is shitting.

[Sam Taggart]

There's almost. There's almost. If. If we were a little more self indulgent and also geniuses, we would go back and listen to our own episodes and react to them.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God. Can you believe? Can you imagine?

[Sam Taggart]

Rather, I can't imagine.

[George Severis]

I almost am like, we should do that just once.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm like, we are different people. I would love to know what it sounds like.

[George Severis]

Different people in, like, in truly substantial, fundamental ways. Like, at our core, we are different people with different values.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Yep. That is wild. Remember how I was always hungover when we were recording? Now I'm never hungover.

[George Severis]

Always hungover.

[Sam Taggart]

And that was, like, part of the joke.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I was so we're all. Yeah, we were trying to. We wanted so badly for the joke to be that we were not actually doing a podcast. And I thought the funniest thing I could be was incredibly abrasive and rude to everyone. I also was Very like. I feel like I was very nervous that I would come off dumb and so I would overcompensate by like just. Just like. It's like, okay, let's say I say a dumb sentence then being like, by the way, I know a different word. And it's long.

[Sam Taggart]

Damn. I love that we're now recounting this. This is fun.

[George Severis]

I know.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, should we wrap it up?

[George Severis]

Yeah. You know.

[Sam Taggart]

Any final thoughts on the boo boos?

[George Severis]

Well, I mean, this is a larger conversation, but at some point we should have a larger conversation about, like these types of things. I'm thinking Beanie Babies, Furbies, Labubus. There is a deep, like, I don't know, Freudian instinct or something.

[Sam Taggart]

This is genius to have, like collectible.

[George Severis]

Little monsters that are objectively cheap and ugly looking.

[Sam Taggart]

There is a. Okay. I've heard this thing once where there's like every culture invents the dragon, like, separately from each other. Whoa. Because it's sort of this like animalistic thing inside of us that's like, what's the scariest thing? It's like, okay, it has claws, it has wings, it's scaly. It's like everything we as humans kind of fear. And I was like, so there's something in us animalistically where we're like. And we need a little creature that is ours.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And that is like collectible and sort of halfway between scary and. Or halfway between ugly and cute.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Like, only I find it cute.

[George Severis]

Or something has just really sort of off putting colors. And also the idea that all of these will someday be worth more. There's also the crypto element to it.

[Sam Taggart]

The cynical side of me is that we just as a culture always recreate capitalism. And we essentially are just creating the stock market again.

[George Severis]

It's not just capitalism, it's finance. It's the financial market.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Which. That's the cynical part. I want to believe it's a spiritual thing.

[George Severis]

I just am sort of like, the least we can do is if we're going to keep recreating the financial markets, at least make supreme.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure. At least do fashion.

[George Severis]

Come on, do fashion. Try to be cool. Try to capture something.

[Sam Taggart]

Don't.

[George Severis]

The boo boos especially. There's something about how they attach to your backpacks and clothes. We've done that already. That's what middle school was.

[Sam Taggart]

The boo.

[George Severis]

You know what's scary, though? For me, the reference point is Beanie Babies, because that's what we grew up with. The people doing Labubus don't know about Beanie Babies for them, this is the first time they're seeing something like this. And then when they're older and someone is going to invent flablubla, they're going to be like, oh my God. Like, this is just la Boo boo.

[Sam Taggart]

They're like, we need to like unpack why flablubalu is popular.

[George Severis]

We are both recloseted. Recloseted. Never Reminders. Hosting a podcast about recloseting. And they need to discuss why flublublas are like laboos and we actually are a Stradio Lab recap podcast. They are our favorite 75 year old podcasters. Even though we hate all their recent work, we actually love their old stuff.

[Sam Taggart]

We love their old stuff. All right, well, this has been a treat. We are probably on tour now. When this comes out, we're probably done with our east coast leg.

[George Severis]

That's right, we're done with our east coast.

[Sam Taggart]

Get tickets to the west Coast. Yeah, we added second shows in Portland and Seattle and San Francisco has not sold out yet and neither has la.

[George Severis]

Honestly though, things are selling pretty well. Yeah, not well enough where I'm like, two more tickets left, but well enough where it will eventually be sold out. So you better act fast, mama.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Okay. Well, this has been an amazing afternoon with you, George, as always.

[George Severis]

As always. And stay classy, San Diego.

[Sam Taggart]

Damn. Ending on an anchorman quote is iconic. Okay, bye. Podcast ends now.

[George Severis]

Want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month, Discord Access and more by heading to patreon.com Stradiolab and for.

[Sam Taggart]

All our visual learners. Free full length video episodes are available on our YouTube.

[George Severis]

Now get back to work.

[Sam Taggart]

Stradia Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money players network and iHeart podcasts.

[George Severis]

Created and hosted by George Severis and.

[Sam Taggart]

Sam Taggart, executive produced by Will Ferrell Hansani and Olivia Aguilar co produced by Bay Wang Edited and engineered by Adam.

[George Severis]

Avalos Artwork by Michael Fails and Matt.

[Sam Taggart]

Grubb Theme music by Ben Kling.

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[Sam Taggart]

Ugh. Come on.

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[George Severis]

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