"Musical Theater" w/ Aaron Jackson

Summary

Podcast Summary

StraightioLab – “Musical Theater” w/ Aaron Jackson

Date: November 18, 2025
Hosts: George Civeris & Sam Taggart
Guest: Aaron Jackson

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Episode Overview

This episode is a raucous, intensely self-aware deep-dive into the nuances of musical theater as it intersects with “straight” and “gay” cultures, featuring guest Aaron Jackson. The hosts and Aaron riff on topics ranging from sweat and fitting in, to the politics of Broadway, the dynamics of Hell’s Kitchen gays vs Brooklyn gays, and what musical theater reveals about mainstream American culture.

They pepper the entire conversation with personal anecdotes, high-camp asides, and a steady stream of memorable jokes, all the while poking fun at themselves and each other. This episode is both a celebration and a friendly roast of the key tropes and stereotypes lurking behind musical theater—and the people it attracts.

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Key Discussion Points

Warm-Up: Physical Discomfort and the Anxiety of Fitting In

• Sweat Talk & Social Conformity
  • Sam and George begin with a humorous discussion about Sam’s sweaty back (“My back is completely covered in sweat…No one can see it, but you have to take my word for it.” – Sam, 03:18).
  • They pivot quickly to the existential concern about “fitting in”, especially as it relates to geographic subcultures (New York vs LA).
  • Quote:
    “I have no idea where fashion has gone in the last two years. I haven’t seen a store; certainly, I haven’t read a magazine.” — George (05:17)

Guest Arrival: Sweat Solidarity and Stage Mishaps

• Aaron enters, and is teased for his “lingerie” arrival, which he clarifies as layered outfits due to sweating issues.
• Discussion of how sweat affects performance, especially during Aaron’s recent run in the play “Messy White Gays” (10:07).
• Anecdotes about costume mishaps and the mechanics of performing on a slippy stage:
  “So we all do slip a bunch when that happens.” — Aaron (15:19)

Celebrity Gossip & Nightlife

• Night out with James Corden in New York (13:24), and the perennial question of “Is James Corden actually nice?”
  • Hilarious third-hand anecdote about Corden ignoring his own crying baby on a flight (14:16).
• Dinner, gossip, and NY nightlife culture are enthusiastically dissected.

Broadway Behind-the-Scenes

• Aaron discusses the dynamic among cast members:
  “We all take a shower and we go home. It’s communal f—k.” — Aaron (27:23, deadpan)
• The group riffs on the reality of post-show camaraderie, pokes fun at the idea of backstage feuds, and does rapid-fire character impressions.

The Play: “Messy White Gays” (28:05)

• Aaron describes the play as a riff on Hitchcock’s Rope, replacing 1920s murderous intellectuals with modern gay throuple drama, brunch, and mishaps hiding a (literal) dead body in a Jonathan Adler credenza.
• “I’m the love interest who killed someone!” — Aaron (32:31)

Instagram, Curtain Calls, and the Changing Media Landscape

• The hosts and Aaron debate social media’s encroachment on Broadway—why is everyone filming curtain calls? Is it all for the ’gram? (16:55)
• Aaron on Instagram:
  “I don’t like it, but I am addicted to it.” (17:51)
  • Their philosophies on posting stories, meat-market culture, and lines between authenticity and performance.

Broadway Cast Dynamics & Hell’s Kitchen vs Brooklyn Gays

• The group muses about the social and class distinctions between Hell's Kitchen gays, Ridgewood gays, and Brooklyn gays.
  • “They’re Hell’s Kitchen gays. They’re not, like, Williamsburg gays. They’re not Bushwick gays.” — Aaron (39:53)

Musical Theater: Straight or Gay?

• Aaron’s main “straight topic" is musical theater—delightfully argued as paradoxically both basic/straight and niche/gay (54:39).

  • Sam: “It’s confusing, though, because it’s niche and basic.” (55:04)
  • Aaron: Discusses how musical theater is full of “Mormon” and “hyper-Christian” girls, the discipline of performance, and the latent straightness of the institution.
  • George draws parallels to Disney adults, seeing both as escapist cultures clinging to suspended childhood.

• Horny Musicals & Diva Worship:

  • Some musicals are potentially “horny” (e.g., when there’s real vocal talent + sexy acting), but overall the mainstream is surprisingly sexless.
  • Diva worship is pronounced as inherently gay.
    “To be like, I love Bernadette Peters is gay. That’s not straight.” — George (59:20)

• Straightest Musicals:

  • The group debates whether Phantom, Wicked, or Mamma Mia is the “straightest” mainstream show—concluding that as musicals grow in popularity and as family entertainment, they inevitably become less “gay."
    “It’s like musicals start out gay and then get straighter and straighter and straighter as they get bigger.” — George (59:44)

The “15 Guys” Theory of Queer New York

• Quirky reflection on the insularity of the Brooklyn queer comedy/theater scene:
  “There’s 15 guys. They all do comedy, they all have improv backgrounds, but they also do stand-up now, and they write. … Those are the 15 guys.” — Sam (64:07)

Shout-Outs Segment (84:26)

• Sam: Shouts out Alexis Bledel (“She is my cousin”—85:32)
• George: Lauds Rachel Sennott for acting and comedic talent (86:48)
• Aaron: Gin martinis—“I’m really in that bag” (88:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On standing out:
  “It’s actually cooler to have zero opinion about whether this new album is good or not. And you guys are actually being complete losers and idiots, and you should honestly start talking about healthcare, housing, things that actually…” — George (06:51)

• On the surreal experience of acting nightly:
  “You do it eight times a week. So…it’s this weird, sort of Greek, Sisyphusian, ‘here we go again’. And then you’re in the middle of it, and you’re like, where am I? When am I? I don’t know, but it’s kind of fun.” — Aaron (33:05)

• On “Hell’s Kitchen gays”:
  “There’s… almost a new species. Like, when there’s a Ridgewood gay versus a Hell’s Kitchen gay, you’re sort of like, these couldn’t be further.” — Sam (40:03)

• On musical theater’s place on the gay/straight spectrum:
  “Musicals start out gay and then get straighter and straighter as they get bigger…” — George (59:44)

• On expanding one’s social universe:
  “I don’t think it’s good when my world expands.” — Sam (63:35)

• On the insularity of NY queer comedy:
  “Whenever there’s an election, I’m like, whoa, whoa, whoa—not my 15!” — Sam (64:10)

• On nostalgia for gay bars:
  “Do you like to… date oneself through knowing which gay bars were around when? Like the fact that I was alive when Sugarland was alive—I’m 100.” — Sam (74:22)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:39] – Podcast “actually” starts (hosts’ moods, back sweat, fitting in)
• [09:33] – Aaron Jackson’s entrance; sweat solidarity; play talk begins
• [13:24] – James Corden in NYC; wild Corden anecdote
• [15:17] – Slipping onstage: “Slippy Night”
• [28:05] – Description of the play “Messy White Gays”
• [39:53] – Hell’s Kitchen/city gay subcultures
• [54:39] – Aaron introduces “musical theater” as the “straight” topic
• [59:44] – “Musicals start out gay and then get straighter as they get bigger”
• [64:07] – The “15 Guys” Theory
• [84:26] – Shout-outs to Alexis Bledel, Rachel Sennott, gin martinis

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Episode Tone & Style

The tone is simultaneously hyper-camp and deadpan. The hosts move effortlessly between parody and sincerity, routinely roasting one another and themselves. The pacing is rapid, punchy, and full of quotable one-liners and asides: a feverish combination of queer theory, inside-baseball NYC theater lore, and improv-level chaos.

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For those who missed it:

• The hosts and guest use musical theater as a lens to deconstruct questions of cultural conformity, queer subcultures, and the continual reshaping of what is considered “straight culture.”
• Personal stories and sharp-witted jabs keep the episode lively and textured, offering both in-jokes for the deeply initiated and killer commentary for newcomers.

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Recommended for:

• Listeners fascinated by NYC’s queer and theater scenes
• Fans of meta-humor, gay subcultural lore, and deep cultural analysis delivered with jokes per minute
• Anyone who wants a crash course in why musical theater both is and isn’t “gay culture”—with plenty of laughs along the way

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Aaron Jackson]

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[George Taveras]

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[George Taveras]

Hooty hoo. This is a reminder for all New York City residents that I, George Severis, am doing a show on December 3rd at the Bell House in Brooklyn, New York to celebrate the release of my debut comedy special. It will be a George and Friends show with Sabrina Wu, Marybeth Brone and hopefully some other surprise guests. So buy your tickets now. I believe they are going fast. You can find tickets at the Bell House website and in my Instagram bio and I will see you December 3rd at the Bellhouse. And that's it for now. Enjoy the show.

[Sam Taggart]

Podcast starts now. Hello everyone and welcome to Stratio Lab.

[George Taveras]

Hello everyone and welcome to the show.

[Sam Taggart]

How are you feeling, George?

[George Taveras]

I am feeling honestly really great.

[Sam Taggart]

Really?

[George Taveras]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

How so?

[George Taveras]

I just feel like I'm the perfect level of caffeinated. I'm with my friends. I'm ready to party.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay.

[George Taveras]

She is being so. I'm quoting Kristen Wiig and bridesmaids there.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. Which I have seen, actually. Yeah.

[George Taveras]

But did you know that that's what I was doing?

[Sam Taggart]

Nope.

[George Taveras]

It's when she's on the plane and she takes a sleeping pill.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure. Iconic scene.

[George Taveras]

Mm. Next question.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I would like to say that my back is completely covered in sweat and I have to address it even though my back is on the couch. No one can see it, but you have to take my word for it. And previously we just recorded and I was wearing a sweater and I said, well, I have to take this off because I'm gonna sweat like crazy. And then I took the sweater off. Guess what? Still sweat like crazy. And the weirdest part is that no one else's back was covered in sweat. Your back completely dry. Our past guest's back, completely dry. Not the.

[George Taveras]

What do you think is wrong with you?

[Sam Taggart]

I don't know. Something. Clearly something is wrong. It's just not right. I don't like to be singled out like that.

[George Taveras]

Do you have issues with.

[Sam Taggart]

Don't even suggest that I sweat.

[George Taveras]

The answer is yes. I was not going to suggest that you sweat a lot. I would. That would be way more rude than what I'm about to ask, which is what is your current relationship to fitting in? Oh, because this is an important question.

[Sam Taggart]

This is a hugely important question. I really appreciate you asking that.

[George Taveras]

And I think everyone has arenas in their life where they care about fitting in and arenas where they don't care about fitting in. And it's actually a really great Rorschach test of what your personality is. They should do a sort of astrology, or if you're like, I'm intf or whatever, they should do that. But for the specific question of where you need or don't need to fit in.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, unfortunately, like most things in life, this does go back to New York vs LA. I wish it didn't. And thank God, more than anyone, I wish it didn't.

[George Taveras]

I was getting shaky, actually, in a sort of like, withdrawal type way, because I hadn't thought about New York Brazilia in approximately 45 seconds.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't want to bring it up. It's just like, in New York, there is something to fit into. There is community.

[George Taveras]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

You know, you can be like, oh, I'm dressing like this type of person.

[George Taveras]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And I'm fitting into.

[George Taveras]

And that brings you comfort.

[Sam Taggart]

I think that does bring me comfort. In la, whenever I'm to go to an event, I'm like, well, I haven't seen a soul in roughly 10 days.

[George Taveras]

Yeah. I have no idea where fashion has Gone. In the last two years, I haven't seen a store, certainly I haven't read a magazine.

[Sam Taggart]

I haven't seen a person not wearing sweatpants.

[George Taveras]

I mean, I know what cars are in vogue.

[Sam Taggart]

I know what cars are in vogue. Rivians. Everyone wants a Rivian.

[George Taveras]

So you're kind of. The community is liberating to you. Whereas I think for other people that enjoy the isolation and complete lack of culture of Los Angeles, it's liberating to be in a more individualist, to be like, oh, I can just be rockabilly. And, like, I will fit in just as much as someone that looks preppy. And they will fit in just as much as someone who is Billie Eilish.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I think everyone is standing out in la, but because you have no other option. You're sort of guessing, but there's no.

[George Taveras]

Standing out when everyone. It's like the scene in, Sorry, Annie hall, when they're driving in LA and each house is a different style. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Taveras]

It's like one of them is, like, Spanish, one of them is colonial, and all the houses just are. One of them has Greek columns, but they're all in a row. And none of them fit in. But also none of them stick out. It just is like a diverse tableau.

[Sam Taggart]

That feeling when the tableau is diverse.

[George Taveras]

That feeling when the tableau is diverse in the Woody Allen film.

[Sam Taggart]

What's your relationship with standing out or fitting in right now?

[George Taveras]

You know, I do think I'm more comfortable standing out as I get older, but I actually feel this way more in terms of, like, my views and opinions.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, yeah, you want to go edgy?

[George Taveras]

I. It's not even that I want to go edgy.

[Sam Taggart]

Wants to go edgy.

[George Taveras]

No, it's. Sometimes it's the opposite. Sometimes I'll see people having, like, a really intense conversation and I'll be like, what you guys are saying doesn't matter. I think it's actually cooler to have zero opinion about, like, whether this new album is good or not. And you guys are actually being complete losers and idiots, and you should honestly start talking about health care, housing, things that are actually. No, this is not. But then also on the other side of things, as you're saying, I do sometimes enjoy. I think that then gives me more permission to be edgy when I want to be, because I'm like, I'm sending this one out. I'm sitting this one out. I'm sitting this one out. Oh, what are we talking about now? You know.

[Aaron Jackson]

Here we go.

[Sam Taggart]

Can't wait. Can't wait to see what he's gonna pull.

[George Taveras]

Whether it's okay to reference Annie hall on a podcast, my answer is yes.

[Sam Taggart]

So you were silent when Taylor Swift.

[George Taveras]

Released her newest album, Don't Care, so.

[Sam Taggart]

That you could then talk about Annie hall and the diverse tableau of houses.

[George Taveras]

But I do think in terms of. Visually, I don't. I'm not really in a place where I need to be standing out or wearing like a crazy, you know, neon green blazer, But I think intellectually I'm like, after all these years of conformity, I'm finally ready to express an opinion.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure. I think standing out. It's interesting that you say standing out when it's like, I just was sweaty. Like, I just had a sweaty back.

[George Taveras]

You were the one who brought it into standing out because you were like, we were all here. Because what I noticed in your story is that rather than being uncomfortable with just the act of sweating.

[Sam Taggart]

Don't do that.

[George Taveras]

What made you uncomfortable? What made you uncomfortable?

[Sam Taggart]

I do not consent is you literally.

[George Taveras]

Were like, you weren't sweaty. Our guest wasn't sweaty. What made you uncomfortable is that you were the only one who was sweaty.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, because I'm worried I have a medical issue because everyone else is completely unsweaty. I'm sort of like, what pills are you taking to?

[George Taveras]

So you're comparing yourself in order to.

[Sam Taggart]

Like in a health way.

[George Taveras]

In a health way. In a sort of self diagnosis, WebMD type way.

[Sam Taggart]

Exactly.

[George Taveras]

It has nothing to do with you wanting to fit in.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm googling excessive sweat. No one else has room with multiple people. Only one with excessive sweat on back. Only on back.

[George Taveras]

Speaking of excessive sweat, our guest showed.

[Sam Taggart]

Up in lingerie today.

[George Taveras]

Our guest showed up in literally X rated sex store vitrine style lingerie.

[Sam Taggart]

Big X's on his nipples.

[George Taveras]

X's on his nipples. Duct tape. Taping his cock. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Fully tucked.

[George Taveras]

Fully tucked. But bottomless.

[Sam Taggart]

Nude illusion. Except it's not an illusion because it's.

[George Taveras]

Nude, but skin poreless. Beautiful.

[Aaron Jackson]

Sure.

[Sam Taggart]

Unmakeuped, raw skin. Completely living as you.

[George Taveras]

So please welcome our friend who you can see off Broadway, no offense, in the play Messy White Gays, written by past guest Drew Droege, Aaron Jackson. Hello.

[Sam Taggart]

Hey.

[Aaron Jackson]

I have so much to say.

[Sam Taggart]

Please.

[Aaron Jackson]

First of all, I was wearing a jacket, a shirt, and a tank top and pants.

[George Taveras]

No, no, no, no. You were wearing.

[Aaron Jackson]

But the jacket was off the shoulder. Because.

[Sam Taggart]

Because.

[Aaron Jackson]

And I really want to get into this. I was Sweating a lot.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, so at which point.

[George Taveras]

So now I'm the odd mine out.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah. Well, no. Okay. I have so much to say about the sweat. The. I'd used to never sweat. Like, I could actually exercise and not sweat same. And then somewhere around 35 or so perimenopause. Somewhere around Covid. Peri. Yeah, I'm perimenopausal. I. And it's gotten crazy. So much so. To talk about the play I'm in. We were in previews and I had a different costume, and I wore a gray tank top. And by the end of the play. Cause it's kind of physical. I would be completely. The back and the front. Completely sweat through. Disgust. Like, completely sweat through.

[Sam Taggart]

I've heard of rant through, but sweat through.

[George Taveras]

Well, he's also ran through. Is it less visible on a white tank?

[Aaron Jackson]

Yes, much less visible. And also the tank top was really tight, so it was just like, cling. So I told the costumers, I want a new costume. I look like a fucking hog up here. And none of the others are sweating. And they're like, no, it's kind of fun because the play's kooky. And they're like, you look cooked out. And I'm like, but I'm the only one. I'm hog sweat. And these other people are like, ready to shoot their Vogue. So I got ready to shoot their Vogue. Ready to shoot their Vogue.

[Sam Taggart]

They're ready to shoot their Vogue.

[George Taveras]

New phrase just dropped IO Adebri. I would never. Oh, she's always ready to shoot her Vogue cover girl.

[Aaron Jackson]

She had been in Vogue, but now she's a cover girl. That's fucking crazy. God bless. God bless.

[George Taveras]

And you can catch her on Broadway.

[Aaron Jackson]

And then you can catch her on, not off, honey. Right on top of Broadway right there. But yeah, I sweat a lot now.

[Sam Taggart]

Interesting. And has the doctor sort of checked you out or.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, they're like, damn Western medicine.

[Sam Taggart]

Fine.

[George Taveras]

Hasn't. We need to get you an acupuncturist staff?

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, no, the doctors all. They all say I'm hot, so it's amazing.

[Sam Taggart]

They say they're down.

[George Taveras]

They say, hachi machi hoo yi yi yai. That'll be $500 million, folks.

[Aaron Jackson]

Talk about health care.

[Sam Taggart]

Seriously, it's time we talk about it. I did notice that during your big.

[George Taveras]

Play, which we went to last night, we want to say. So it's fresh in our minds.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah.

[George Taveras]

Usually we don't really allow guests to promote a project, but this time, because we just saw it, it Actually coincides with what we would talk about.

[Aaron Jackson]

Anyway, we were together hours ago.

[George Taveras]

We were together. We went to the.

[Sam Taggart]

Literally, I went to school and I was looking at you and I'm awake and I'm seeing you again.

[George Taveras]

Yeah. I'm kind of like, I hope we find things to talk about.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Cause I'm like, we pretty much covered it last night.

[Aaron Jackson]

That was all gossip. We can't say any of that.

[George Taveras]

I know. We can say one thing. Guess who we saw at dinner?

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah. We went to the Barcelona. Oh, the trolley. And sitting at the table next to us was James Corden.

[Sam Taggart]

Woo. I said, God, only in New York.

[Aaron Jackson]

Only in New York.

[George Taveras]

James Corden. Who? You know, I have to say so he's currently on Broadway in the Yasmina Reza play. Art. Every review I've read says the play is bad, but he's the highlight.

[Aaron Jackson]

Well, I didn't see that play. He wanted Tony for before he got the show, his talk show. And everyone was like, it was all raised, raised across the boards.

[George Taveras]

It's one of the toughest things to admit to ourselves is that James Corden is really talented.

[Aaron Jackson]

He's a good actor.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, he's actually a really good actor.

[Sam Taggart]

And you know, no disrespect to everyone who's ever been yelled at him. Yelled at by him. But he didn't yell at a single waiter last night.

[George Taveras]

Yeah. Didn't yell at a single waiter. Didn't yell at any unions.

[Sam Taggart]

Didn't throw anything.

[Aaron Jackson]

He even seemed calm. I would dare to share.

[Sam Taggart]

Seemed jovial.

[Aaron Jackson]

Seemed jovial.

[Sam Taggart]

Hey. Seemed inviting. Kept looking at us, waving us over, licking his lips. Kept saying, hey, sweet things, why don't you come over here? Got a couple extra seats. And I said, he is much nicer.

[Aaron Jackson]

So nice.

[Sam Taggart]

He is so much nicer.

[Aaron Jackson]

God, their tabloids are sick.

[Sam Taggart]

They're disgusting. They lied. Oh, they tear anyone apart if they were successful. So messed up. And British. They just hate Brits.

[Aaron Jackson]

They hate Brits.

[Sam Taggart]

So messed up.

[George Taveras]

I mean, I'm so tempted to tell our famous James Corden story that we heard thirdhand.

[Sam Taggart]

We have a famous James Corden story.

[George Taveras]

Yeah. I feel like it's so third hand that it's okay to tell it.

[Sam Taggart]

I have no idea what the story is.

[George Taveras]

Okay. I will tell it quickly so that if we end up cutting it, it's okay and it won't cut into the episode. Ready, love? I'm gonna do a very good.

[Sam Taggart]

And I had an amazing thing to say about Aaron. Play.

[George Taveras]

But say it.

[Sam Taggart]

Do first. We're on James Corden we'll come back.

[George Taveras]

Friend of a friend was in. I'll say it. First class on an airplane.

[Sam Taggart]

Ooh, must be nice.

[George Taveras]

James Corden was on that flight. He gets on a seat, there's a woman with a baby next to him. The baby's crying the whole time. And my friend is like, oh. Our friend's like. I expected James Corden to, like, be a dick about it because he sort of has a reputation, whatever, but it turns out he is fine about it. He's just, like, sort of staring at a screen and, like, not. And ignoring the baby. Whatever flight is, you know, six, seven hours, whatever plane lands, the woman with the baby is holding the baby, gets up, tries to get the suitcase, turns to James Corden goes, james, can you help out? It was his baby.

[Aaron Jackson]

So he was ignoring his baby and.

[George Taveras]

Then not helping with the suitcase.

[Aaron Jackson]

Got ya. I forgot he was a dad.

[Sam Taggart]

Me too.

[George Taveras]

So did he.

[Sam Taggart]

Baby wasn't out last night.

[George Taveras]

Baby wasn't out last night? No, he wasn't. He was out having a night with the boys.

[Aaron Jackson]

That's licking his lips.

[George Taveras]

Now we have to hard pivot to a different topic in case we cut that. So what were you gonna say?

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, so, Aaron, this was in response to the sweating on stage. You know, I did notice you jump around on the furniture quite a bit.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Do you ever fall?

[Aaron Jackson]

No, I haven't falled, but okay. There's blood in this play, so I have to clean the stage. And after a matinee, they clean the stage, and sometimes they clean the rug. And the rug hasn't dried fully, so it's extremely wet. So we all do slip a bunch when that happens.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Ooh.

[Sam Taggart]

So which night of the week is the slippy night?

[Aaron Jackson]

It'd be Saturday night and Sunday night. Circus Slippy Roll up.

[Sam Taggart]

Saturday and Sunday.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, just Saturday and Sunday. Slippy night. You get a little discount as an audience member because often the cast is slipping.

[Aaron Jackson]

They're slipping, slipping. I think they might stop washing the rug in the matinees, because it is.

[Sam Taggart]

I think they should lube it up. Have some fun. Come on, give them a slide.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's the night.

[George Taveras]

Oh, they should do lube night, where it's just all lubed up and everyone's.

[Aaron Jackson]

Constantly falling on Rocky Horror. They just throw lube at us.

[George Taveras]

The play is very much like Rocky Horror.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's exactly like it. In fact, in most ways.

[George Taveras]

Do you find that, and I'm sorry to ask this, do you find that everyone is constantly making references to Nicole Scherzinger because you End the play with blood on your.

[Aaron Jackson]

But it's extremely vogue.

[George Taveras]

Okay.

[Aaron Jackson]

Everyone who plays in blood. Yeah, because it's that Evita ended in blood.

[George Taveras]

Same director.

[Aaron Jackson]

There's another one too. Anyway, it's in vogue, honey.

[Sam Taggart]

Cynically, do you think it's to have an Instagramable moment?

[Aaron Jackson]

I think this was always in the play before that. Before that revival happened, before Instagram.

[George Taveras]

So Jamie Lloyd actually copied.

[Aaron Jackson]

Jamie Lloyd got a copy of Drew Droege's script.

[George Taveras]

Jamie Lloyd, would you say, is reheating Drew Droege's nachos?

[Aaron Jackson]

I've been saying that for decades.

[George Taveras]

Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

But, yeah, I guess it's kind of Instagrammable. I don't know. God, isn't it sick?

[Sam Taggart]

It's disgusting.

[Aaron Jackson]

And why does everyone want to film Curtain Call in the first place?

[George Taveras]

Well, I struggle with this, because the thing is, I of course, agree with you that it's ridiculous to post, but.

[Aaron Jackson]

People Play wants you to. But.

[George Taveras]

And it's also like. And when you're there. Because the thing is, I do, like. I hate myself for doing it, but I do do it. Because you want to just be like. You have all this excess energy from being a passive audience member and being excited, and you just. Art and you're. And you want to, like, be like, look. And it's all you can do.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

It's tough, you know, you have a healthy relationship with Instagram.

[Aaron Jackson]

Do I?

[Sam Taggart]

I think so.

[George Taveras]

You're not. Oh, you're opposed in bulge and cock left and right.

[Sam Taggart]

That's healthy. That's healthy. That's what it's for.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's a meat market.

[Sam Taggart]

That's what it's for.

[Aaron Jackson]

Bulging cock. Yeah. I don't like it, but I am addicted to it.

[George Taveras]

Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

Interesting. Is that thrilling?

[George Taveras]

Well, no, but I think, first of.

[Sam Taggart]

All, New York versus Deli is deeply interesting and relevant to our community.

[Aaron Jackson]

But, yeah, I try not to post too much, but I do stories.

[George Taveras]

But I do stories.

[Aaron Jackson]

I do stories. I do stories.

[George Taveras]

This is like Patti LuPone being interviewed. I do stories.

[Aaron Jackson]

Ooh. I also saw at bars and Charlie once.

[George Taveras]

Oh, wait.

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh, my God. This is crazy.

[Sam Taggart]

What?

[Aaron Jackson]

This is crazy. I was on the train the other day, the subway train.

[George Taveras]

Oh.

[Aaron Jackson]

Going downtown. And I had a. Because I was hot. A jacket. But, like, off my shoulder, I was in my lingerie, and so it was on the seat next to me a little bit. So then this hand appears when we get to a stop and moves my jacket. I have my headphones in, you know, And I said, oh, my God, I'm So sorry. I look up. It's actually quite. Actually Patti LuPone. Oh. I go, oh. And she goes, no, I just didn't want to sit on your beautiful jacket. It was not a beautiful jacket. And then she sat down, I took out my headphones, and I just eavesdropped on her the whole train ride.

[Sam Taggart]

What'd she say?

[Aaron Jackson]

Well, I don't say her business. She did classically say, this is so Patti LuPone. I don't understand why movie stars want to do Broadway.

[George Taveras]

That is so classic. Patti LuPone in the Sense that there literally is an answer to that and she knows it. Yeah. And yet she just had. I assume she asked that question on every phone call and has for 50 years.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

The whole time.

[George Taveras]

It's just like there's no evolution.

[Aaron Jackson]

The man she was with who I did not recognize, but he's probably, you know, I don't know, an oligarch. But he was like. He was like. Well, I think he just did a silly movie. So now he wants to do a serious play. I love him, like, trying to earn as the answer why movies are so too, bro. Wow. That was pretty big for me.

[Sam Taggart]

No, that's huge.

[George Taveras]

So what has it been like being a theater actor?

[Aaron Jackson]

Being a theater actress?

[George Taveras]

Yes, Theater actress.

[Aaron Jackson]

You can't be an actor on stage. It's fun. I am having fun. I went to ashamed to say I went to a conservatory for college.

[Sam Taggart]

This always freaks me out when you say this. Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

And then moved to New York to be a stage actor, but then got kind of burnt out by it. Cause I've been doing it my entire life.

[George Taveras]

And you originated Spring Awakening.

[Aaron Jackson]

No, but literally all my friends were in there for real. Like, that's when I moved here. And they all. Everybody was in that. And so I was going and watching them and being like, having envy and bizarre, you know, it's just like, this is so bizarre. And then got into improvisational comedy.

[Sam Taggart]

Never forget.

[George Taveras]

And you finally decided to get serious and get into improvisational. I need to leave my childish dreams of being a theater actor behind and get real about taking improv201.

[Sam Taggart]

It's time to be practical.

[George Taveras]

It's time to be practical. Obama is president.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yes. George W. Bush was what I first.

[George Taveras]

George W. Bush was president. As I was saying, it's time to do improv.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, it's time.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[Aaron Jackson]

Only the Obama was. Oh, no. I started in 08. So Obama was campaigning.

[George Taveras]

You were inspired by his message to do improv, hope and change. No real plans behind it. I think that's Actually, Obama, you know, he's not quite respected enough for this. He really had an improv spirit to his campaigning and his presidency.

[Sam Taggart]

Totally.

[George Taveras]

It was kind of like, let's see what happens. Yes.

[Aaron Jackson]

And Biden into gay marriage.

[George Taveras]

Yes, exactly.

[Aaron Jackson]

Remember? Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

I remember.

[Aaron Jackson]

Those were the days. What else?

[Sam Taggart]

Finding out. No, I know. It's like, here's the thing. This is what's so complicated. What is that? Like, maybe it's the fear of not wanting to stand out.

[George Taveras]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Sometimes I'm wanting to say something, but I'm like, this feels like it's gonna go wrong.

[George Taveras]

But here's what.

[Sam Taggart]

Finding out that you were in theater school, it's like, as if I found out you were in the military. I'm like, whoa, that's scary.

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, God. Like, I'm like, I didn't know, like, the trauma you were dealing with.

[Aaron Jackson]

Right.

[Sam Taggart]

And, like, I've been sort of treating you normal.

[Aaron Jackson]

Like, I've like, treating you like a fucking comedian.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, those are the most drew up all to you. And I don't realize that, like, you're dealing with stuff that I can't even imagine. You were, like, fully shell shocked.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

And I'm just, like, joking around. Like, I'm like, whoa. Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

I think when I started doing improv, people were like, why are you so good? And it's like. It's called stage presence, darling. Like, I. But I know how to be on stage. People over and then I taught, and people would literally turn their back to the audience and whisper. I'm like, so you're gonna have to.

[Sam Taggart]

You're literally describing me.

[George Taveras]

That's me.

[Aaron Jackson]

That's how they are. That's how they show up. So you do have to, like, be on stage.

[Sam Taggart]

No. Whenever anyone's, like, cheat out, I'm like, well, I'm talking to them and I'm.

[Aaron Jackson]

Telling a secret, so I'm gonna whisper it.

[George Taveras]

It's like, well, honey, I've always wondered that about improv. And of course, all my love to the art form, but it's like, of course, nothing but love to skill of improvisation outside the context of either acting. Like, acting, writing, enunciating, like, story structure. Like, the improv is something that you already have a foundation, and then you do on top of that. Like, it's almost like being like, okay, I'm teaching an English class and it's all about punctuation, but everyone's illiterate.

[Aaron Jackson]

Right.

[George Taveras]

You know what I mean? Like, we can do amazing things with commas and periods. Yeah. If you first learn how to write.

[Aaron Jackson]

And that is the. Like, I hate actors.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I was just about to ask.

[Aaron Jackson]

But when they would be in improv class, you'd be like, thank God. Because they literally would be like, oh, well, like, I'll play a character. And these people are, like, shivering at the table. Yeah. It's like, thank God this idiot is in here.

[Sam Taggart]

This is so interesting, because whenever there was an actor in an improv class.

[Aaron Jackson]

I mean, they're annoying.

[Sam Taggart]

I'd be like, I'm going to commit murder.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, this is, like, the worst thing I've ever seen.

[Aaron Jackson]

But they would, like. They would come in. They come in with, like, energy.

[Sam Taggart]

That's true. That's true.

[Aaron Jackson]

You have to, like, beg people again, like, hey, give them a show, kids.

[George Taveras]

Well, also, an actor wants to utilize improv to a different end, whereas an improviser is very. Yes, an improviser is very. Like, art for art's sake.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, it's very punk.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, totally. Nothing more punk than paying $1,200 to play.

[Aaron Jackson]

To play. Let's just play.

[Sam Taggart]

Let's just happen. Then the space hamster flew his hot.

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[Aaron Jackson]

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[Sam Taggart]

So when you girls, you actors go backstage after the big show?

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Does it get competitive?

[Aaron Jackson]

Does it get for what?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

Are you guys like snl?

[George Taveras]

Like who did well that night?

[Sam Taggart]

Like fuck. He's gonna get more lines next week. They're gonna give him some of my lines. Cause he ate so bad.

[Aaron Jackson]

My scene got cut.

[Sam Taggart]

My fucking scene.

[Aaron Jackson]

We all take a shower and we go home.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, is it like.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's communal fuck?

[George Taveras]

Penetration. Penetration.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, Full penetration. Do you find that brings you closer together? Totally.

[Aaron Jackson]

Makes the work that much more deep. Yeah, I can tell that much deeper.

[George Taveras]

So do you wanna sort of say, I don't know why I'm being so Jimmy Fallon today, but do you wanna say what the play is about?

[Aaron Jackson]

You make me sing.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, let's go. We're gonna do a wheel of impressions. Mariah.

[Aaron Jackson]

That was my Mariah.

[George Taveras]

You hit the perfect whistle note.

[Sam Taggart]

Jennifer Coolidge.

[Aaron Jackson]

Hot dog. Yay. Poor thing. Always poor hot dog.

[Sam Taggart]

I know.

[Aaron Jackson]

Wait, what'd you ask?

[George Taveras]

What is the play about?

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh, the play.

[George Taveras]

What's the play about?

[Aaron Jackson]

Okay, so there's this Alfred Hitchcock movie, rope based on these two gay guys from the 20s that were real. What are these?

[George Taveras]

Oh, I did not. Leopold and Kate and Leopold.

[Aaron Jackson]

Kate and Leopold. Hugh Jackman.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, Hitchcock, Really?

[Aaron Jackson]

These two guys in the 20s killed someone just to see if they could get away with that, and they did not. And then the movie Rope is based on them, and it's these two guys kill one of their classmates who they think is, like, inferior, like, intellectually, and they hide him in, like, a chest. And then they have people over for a dinner party, you know, to kind of see if they can get away with it. So ours is like sort of a riff on that. Two gay guys kill their throuple mate and then. But ours is on accident. Well, we don't kill him on accident. But then we throw brunch by accident. And so we hide him in a Jonathan Adder credenza. And then calamity and hilarity ensues.

[George Taveras]

It opens with you killing the third in the Thrill.

[Aaron Jackson]

I do love the James Cassatti moir.

[George Taveras]

Yes. You and James Cossati Moyer, who people might know from Slave Play, Tony nominee or.

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh, God, I forgot. I just found out he was in a DC comic movie and he dies on screen. Black. Adam Black.

[George Taveras]

Oh, that sounds fair.

[Aaron Jackson]

James was in that.

[George Taveras]

Is that the one with the rock?

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah.

[George Taveras]

Yes.

[Aaron Jackson]

See? Okay, everybody stream it. But he dies on screen.

[Sam Taggart]

I really want to watch.

[Aaron Jackson]

Watch my baby die.

[George Taveras]

He is. And can I just say, he is hot.

[Aaron Jackson]

He's very hot. People are in my DMs.

[George Taveras]

He's kind of classically hot.

[Sam Taggart]

They'll be like, good job.

[Aaron Jackson]

James is so hot. And I always just reply, what about me? Get in his DMs, faggot.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, well, do you think he's getting DMs that are like, congrats, Aaron is so hot.

[Aaron Jackson]

No, not at all. He's getting DMs. You're hot.

[Sam Taggart]

That's sick.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, his DMs are just like, you're hot.

[Aaron Jackson]

You're hot. Wake up. Don't tell me someone else is hot. That's my fitting.

[George Taveras]

Especially the person playing your love interest. Hello. It's also. It's like, the implication is what? Like, you think better than. Yeah. Like, congrats on being in a fictional environment where you could.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where you could possibly score games. Honey, please. He wishes he doesn't. I really love DMS and tell me I'm hot.

[George Taveras]

Please get in our DMs and say, oh, my God, congrats. Aaron's so hot.

[Aaron Jackson]

Aaron's so hot. Say, you guys are so funny. Aaron's hot. Sick.

[Sam Taggart]

Disgusting.

[Aaron Jackson]

Give me a fucking break.

[George Taveras]

I actually wouldn't mind if someone said, you're funny and Aaron's hot.

[Sam Taggart]

I would.

[George Taveras]

I would sort of take that as a clown.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm okay with that.

[George Taveras]

I wouldn't.

[Aaron Jackson]

Wait till you read it. It's such a blow high clown. Rot in hell.

[George Taveras]

I do. I didn't know that this was part of rope because I don't think I've seen rope since I was like a teen. But I like the idea that you murder him because he is basic.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah.

[George Taveras]

You murder him. What is the word I'm looking for? Because he is banal.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yes. One of the lines that he's so fucking medium about everything.

[George Taveras]

Yes. Which is, I do sometimes wish I could murder people who are banal.

[Aaron Jackson]

Name names.

[George Taveras]

He is so medium about everything. And then the night before, while you guys were all on drugs and alcohol, you invited everyone over for brunch.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yes.

[George Taveras]

And so this brunch occurs while a dead body is just sitting inside a Jonathan Adler credenza.

[Aaron Jackson]

Mm, that's correct. That's the hook.

[Sam Taggart]

See, he did see it.

[Aaron Jackson]

He was there last night.

[Sam Taggart]

I bet you thought he was gonna say something wrong, huh?

[Aaron Jackson]

He was there last night. But I'm playing like I'm straight man in it, which is very rare for me.

[George Taveras]

Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

You know what I mean? I'm not like the comic relieved.

[George Taveras]

You're not the comic relief.

[Aaron Jackson]

I mean, everyone gets stakes. Yeah, everyone has funny lines.

[George Taveras]

Everyone has funny lines, but you're not the single comic relief. Right.

[Aaron Jackson]

Joker. Which is a fun muscle to stretch. Theater school.

[Sam Taggart]

Were you scared? Were you like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. I need to be funnier.

[Aaron Jackson]

No, no. I was excited to get offered that because Pete Zayas is in it. Pete Zayas plays this character Thacker, who is, I would say the comic. I mean, everyone is funny, but he is like the funny one.

[George Taveras]

He's the Jack. Jack McFarlane. Like, I get one that is like, he's the Kramer.

[Sam Taggart]

He's the Kramer.

[George Taveras]

He's the. Like, he's there to be funny.

[Aaron Jackson]

Every one of his lines is a joke, you know, and he's amazing in it. He's so funny. It's such a great performance. But like, I. When I would, like, do plays, that was always the part I would get, you know, And I love doing that. But I was like, oh, this is kind of fun. I get to be like, what's the stakes? You know? And I'm never cast as a love interest. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm a love interest. I'm a love interest that killed somebody.

[George Taveras]

It's interesting. You think of yourself as A love interest. And not as the protagonist. Who has a love interest.

[Aaron Jackson]

Totally.

[George Taveras]

Cause you guys are equally get equal.

[Aaron Jackson]

We start and we never leave stage.

[George Taveras]

And yet you think of yourself as.

[Sam Taggart]

Just the love interest.

[Aaron Jackson]

Okay, fine.

[George Taveras]

I'm the lead. You have the first line in the play.

[Aaron Jackson]

I do.

[George Taveras]

Is that hard?

[Aaron Jackson]

No, I love it. Get me up there.

[Sam Taggart]

Here we go. Fuck. Fuck. I forgot. Fuck. Fuck.

[Aaron Jackson]

There are times.

[George Taveras]

Oh, my God. If the plane. If it opened and you're just like.

[Aaron Jackson]

All right, did we kill him?

[Sam Taggart]

Do the lights off again. Lights off again.

[Aaron Jackson]

Take it from the top. No, but it is sort of like a weird. Cause you do it eight times a week. So it's this weird. Like, I don't know what I'm trying to say. There's some sort of Greek Sisyphusian. You're like, here we go again. And then you're in the middle of it, and you're like, where am I? When am I? I don't know, but it's kind of fun. Yeah, it's like a strange exercise. It really is. It's bizarre.

[George Taveras]

We're being amazing interviewers.

[Aaron Jackson]

This is so Sam hates it.

[Sam Taggart]

You can see it in my eyes. I'm sort of like, who are you?

[George Taveras]

No, we're asking you, like, we're asking you straightforward questions, and then you're answering.

[Sam Taggart]

Them, and we're like, okay, I was, like, expecting, like. Like, I thought we were going to, like, sort of Joe Firestone him.

[Aaron Jackson]

That episode is so funny.

[George Taveras]

Okay, now that. Now let's. Joe Firestone him.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, so here's what I want to know. So, okay, like, any feuds on set? And by set, I mean stage. Do you just call a stage a set?

[Aaron Jackson]

Yes, it's. And we say lights, camera, action right before we start.

[George Taveras]

You already asked that question.

[Sam Taggart]

I didn't ask about feuds. I said, who's jealous?

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh, who's jealous? There's no feuds. I wish there were feuds.

[Sam Taggart]

Do you want to start one?

[George Taveras]

Yeah, make something up.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, a feud. I mean, I would start a feud with Drew Jogi so I could.

[George Taveras]

Oh, the.

[Aaron Jackson]

I could have all the jokes. Not even more all. Oh, so it's like I'm have everyone.

[George Taveras]

Else just be, like, really blank and.

[Aaron Jackson]

Blank, and just every single one of their lines is setting me up.

[Sam Taggart]

Did you ever find it interesting there was no choreo. No dancing?

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, I find it very, extremely interesting.

[George Taveras]

I say, why isn't there singing?

[Sam Taggart]

I thought because I was watching, and I was like, this is so interesting that there's no dancing.

[Aaron Jackson]

There's no dancing. I think I. Not to be real again. I think one of the producers. Cause you know that, like, plague that happened where, like, there. There was always a curtain call.

[Sam Taggart]

Covid.

[George Taveras]

Covid.

[Sam Taggart]

It was called Covid.

[Aaron Jackson]

It was called Covid Mascot Omicron. I think the producers at one point wanted to do one of those. Like, they come out at curtain call and dance, and we were all like, no. Oh, that happened for almost like, not like Angels in America.

[George Taveras]

Angels in America. They're coming out during the Macarena at the end.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, like, at the end of Shrek, there's a big musical number for no reason.

[Aaron Jackson]

Totally. And also, I always find that so exhausting because you just watched the. It also always. If it's a musical, it always ends with the song. And then they're like, we're coming out again and we're singing again.

[George Taveras]

You're like, again.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, again. Are they doing it for Socials?

[Aaron Jackson]

Damn.

[Sam Taggart]

It's disgusting what people will do for Socials.

[Aaron Jackson]

Meta.

[George Taveras]

You know, I think there should be, like, a reality show or something about the people that do the Socials for.

[Aaron Jackson]

Broadway plays starring, you know, little Reese Havoc, Austin Spiro. Do you know this person?

[George Taveras]

No.

[Aaron Jackson]

Great little person that runs around town, drag queen. But does. Does the sort of.

[George Taveras]

Oh, Mary. Yes. Okay.

[Aaron Jackson]

Extremely good.

[George Taveras]

Yes. Oh, Mary.

[Aaron Jackson]

And I think Liberation Prince Faggot. But the other one, John Proctor is the villain.

[George Taveras]

John Proctor is the villain.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[George Taveras]

But I. And again, I don't know this person. So this is not about him. Them. Him. He.

[Aaron Jackson]

Proudly he him. In fact.

[George Taveras]

Oh, proudly he him. Okay, relax. Valid to be whatever you want.

[Sam Taggart]

That's amazing.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

Shout out. Wait, just so everyone listening at home, we're all wearing blue.

[George Taveras]

That's right.

[Aaron Jackson]

It needed to be said.

[Sam Taggart]

No, it didn't need to be.

[Aaron Jackson]

We're going boy. Boys wear blue.

[George Taveras]

Okay.

[Aaron Jackson]

Sorry.

[George Taveras]

Talk about needless to say.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, not to. But your blue's like LGBTQ blue.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's silk.

[George Taveras]

Well, it's silk. We're wearing three different material. What are we?

[Aaron Jackson]

Chambray?

[George Taveras]

We're wearing three different materials, but they're all blue. It's literally like podcasting at the end of the world. Outside, everyone has died. It's post apocalyptic. And I'm like, okay, blue materials, shirts, different shades. Theater, social. There should be a reality show for the people who do social media for John Proctor is the villain. What else, what else, what else? My eyes start bleeding. I'm foaming at the mouth. Meanwhile, there's a zombie apocalypse outside.

[Aaron Jackson]

Trump is president, and the zombies Are hot.

[George Taveras]

Oh, my God. And that's a musical they should do.

[Aaron Jackson]

Because they always do hot vampires. They should do hot zombies.

[George Taveras]

Well, that would be tough because why.

[Aaron Jackson]

Can'T they just come back and be hot? Why do they have to be ugly?

[George Taveras]

I feel like it's difficult to be hot while also being undead. Like, you have to. You can't be charming as a person.

[Aaron Jackson]

A vampire's undead.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, but a vampire has a personality. A zombie is literally zombie esque.

[Aaron Jackson]

But maybe that's. What am I trying to say? Stereotype.

[George Taveras]

So you're saying this is interesting now.

[Sam Taggart]

This is interesting.

[George Taveras]

You know what, actually, I think I've maybe talked about this once before. When I was in college. There was this.

[Sam Taggart]

This is so scary.

[Aaron Jackson]

I know.

[George Taveras]

There was this like, postdoc or something. I'm not making this up. This was in the department of, like, Justice. Gender studies, Feminist studies.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God, now we're getting serious.

[George Taveras]

I swear to God. This is true. Her research was on dead bodies and how they are treated as passive, but in fact, they have agency. So she was using, like, feminist theory and, you know, queer theory to argue in, like, on behalf of dead bodies.

[Aaron Jackson]

So she jumped the shark.

[George Taveras]

She fully jumped the shark. It is. I remember being like, oh, academia has maybe two decades left.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Taveras]

Like, this is. This is like what Republicans think is happening.

[Aaron Jackson]

It is sometimes with academia, it's that you are. You're thinking too hard.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

You just think a little bit.

[Sam Taggart]

You're getting a little bit lost.

[George Taveras]

You're thinking too hard to watch TV while also not an hour. You're thinking too hard and also not thinking enough. Like, you're fully not aware of your surroundings.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yes.

[George Taveras]

There's a fire happening all around you and you're at your desk being like, as Foucault said.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Taveras]

Anyway, I recently looked up that woman on LinkedIn and she works at like, a corporate consultancy. She gave up on academia. Well. Well, maybe she's consulting on how to be more welcoming dead people in the workplace.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, maybe she's consulting at Big Morgue.

[George Taveras]

Big Morg.

[Sam Taggart]

Big Morgue.

[Aaron Jackson]

Big Morgue.

[Sam Taggart]

That'd be nice. Questions about the play.

[Aaron Jackson]

You don't have to talk about the play.

[Sam Taggart]

We talked a lot about the play.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, we talked a lot about the play.

[Sam Taggart]

We promoted it last night.

[George Taveras]

Go see it.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Buy a ticket.

[George Taveras]

Go see it, girl.

[Aaron Jackson]

Go see a girl.

[George Taveras]

Go see it, girl.

[Aaron Jackson]

Open your mind.

[George Taveras]

That should be the tagline. If I did social media for messy white gays. Messi White gays. Go see it, Guara.

[Aaron Jackson]

Go See it Gual.

[George Taveras]

Actually, that actually would be, like, a great.

[Sam Taggart]

I have a marketing tip too.

[Aaron Jackson]

Okay, great.

[Sam Taggart]

You team up with, like, a touring company, like a tourist company.

[Aaron Jackson]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

And you'd go. You go around Hell's Kitchen for all the references.

[Aaron Jackson]

References. There's a lot of.

[George Taveras]

There's a lot of Hell's Kitchen references.

[Aaron Jackson]

They're gay guys.

[George Taveras]

This is the other thing. They're Hell's Kitchen gays. They're not, like, Williamsburg gays. They're not Bushwick gays. They're Hell's Kitchen gays.

[Aaron Jackson]

And certainly not Ridgewood gays.

[George Taveras]

Not even close opposite of Ridgewood gays.

[Aaron Jackson]

Opposite.

[Sam Taggart]

They're so different. There's, like, almost a new type of species. Like, when there's a Ridgewood gay versus a Hell's Kitchen gay, you're sort of like, these couldn't be further.

[Aaron Jackson]

And these are even hyper, wealthy Hellskitchen gays.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

So that's even.

[George Taveras]

That. That was an interesting element of it too. I have another.

[Sam Taggart]

So now we're talking about the plague.

[George Taveras]

No, no, no. I actually think I'm really. Sam, I like that you're giving suggestions, and I actually have a few suggestions as well. We have a few notes.

[Aaron Jackson]

So I'm just an actress.

[George Taveras]

Just in terms of the title, Messy White Gaze sounds kind of exclusionary. You could potentially. You could do, like, messy, intersectional LGBTQ individuals. Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Taveras]

And I would even go so far as to say messy limits you as well.

[Aaron Jackson]

Sure.

[George Taveras]

So it could be, like, diverse LGBTQ folks of all stripes, maybe. That could be an interesting title.

[Aaron Jackson]

Of all stripes, I think.

[Sam Taggart]

I think just to shorten it.

[George Taveras]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Americans.

[George Taveras]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

That's a really good Americans.

[George Taveras]

And I would even say, like, is.

[Aaron Jackson]

That his K, Russell?

[Sam Taggart]

That's the American. This is just American.

[George Taveras]

And maybe to add a positive spin on it, think of something really something that people associate with positivity. Maybe, like, angels. And you could maybe call it Angels in America. Angels and Americans. And so I would say, that's. That's good something.

[Aaron Jackson]

And then maybe make it two plays.

[George Taveras]

I would say make it two plays.

[Sam Taggart]

Because I was like, okay, now what?

[Aaron Jackson]

And then what happens?

[Sam Taggart]

To me, the ending was just the beginning, and I was like, what if just as an exercise, we start there? Let's start there and just see where we go.

[George Taveras]

Let's start there.

[Sam Taggart]

Just as an exercise, I just want.

[Aaron Jackson]

To know, let's do it tonight. When I go do it tonight, I'll improvise a second play. I'll start where we ended.

[George Taveras]

And then I think just to Kind of piggyback off of what Sam said. Let's piggy. So this is. The entire cast is actually all men. I think we could maybe make it half men, half women.

[Aaron Jackson]

Totally.

[George Taveras]

And then I thought your performance was great, but what if it was someone like Andrew Garfield? Like, you know, a big name that people. You know, people are flying in from all over, going to play. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

James Corden.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, James Corden.

[Aaron Jackson]

Hello.

[Sam Taggart]

He's already there.

[Aaron Jackson]

Maybe that's why he was at the restaurant last night. Maybe he was, like, sniffing at my gig.

[Sam Taggart]

He's like, I hope they spot me and cast me. Cause you wrote and cast it.

[Aaron Jackson]

I believe I wrote cast, yeah.

[George Taveras]

So Angels in Americans. Angels in Americans. Andrew Garfield, James Corden. And then I think for the female parts, we gotta go. We have to get the youth interested.

[Aaron Jackson]

Absolutely.

[George Taveras]

So I'm thinking, like, Sabrina Carpenter.

[Aaron Jackson]

Sydney Sweeney.

[George Taveras]

Sydney Sweeney. Zendaya.

[Sam Taggart]

It's the cast of Euphoria.

[George Taveras]

The cast of Sabrina Carpenteria. Sabrina Carpenter, of course.

[Sam Taggart]

And they're the chorus.

[George Taveras]

And they're the chorus.

[Aaron Jackson]

And yet then there's a dance.

[George Taveras]

And then there's a dance.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I had a pitch, too. I just couldn't help but notice there was a corpse played by a doll.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yes.

[George Taveras]

That could have been a.

[Sam Taggart]

That could have been a corpse.

[George Taveras]

Did you guys consult with Actors Equity about that?

[Aaron Jackson]

Is the corpse getting paid every day? We consulted. We actually never rehearsed because we were.

[Sam Taggart]

So speaking of corpse rights.

[Aaron Jackson]

And it could have been a zombie. That's such a hot zombie.

[George Taveras]

And that woman that postdoc that I was talking about could probably do a great job as a dramaturg walking you guys through how to respect the corpse.

[Sam Taggart]

Totally.

[George Taveras]

Because it seemed like you were not being very respectful.

[Aaron Jackson]

Wait, okay. There are two corpses. There's like an understudy corpse for real. And one. One of them's the one we always use. And it used to be like a sex doll, but they made it. Cause it was too heavy. But it has this very silicone face. But then when they made the other one, like the backup one, they couldn't get that sex doll face again. So it's just a mannequin's head, but she's beat to, like, God. It's just like mascara and pouty lips. And the bangs are very sweepy tucked in the hoodie. And it's like, ooh, look at her, though.

[Sam Taggart]

Is that ever dist.

[Aaron Jackson]

He's kind of face down the whole time, except at the end.

[George Taveras]

So it's a little gag just for you guys.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's a little gag for the girls.

[George Taveras]

So speaking of gagging the girls, another suggestion I had is right now it's a play, so it's on stage, and you have to go there and see it in person. What if it was in order for more people to be able to see it? A miniseries.

[Aaron Jackson]

A streaming miniseries.

[George Taveras]

A streaming miniseries.

[Aaron Jackson]

Kate Winslet.

[George Taveras]

Kate Winslet. And what if it was set in, like, Philly?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

[George Taveras]

And then the murder could be. Instead of a gay guy, like a young girl. Totally. And she could be solving the murder. And they're all doing accents, and they're all doing accent. And her name is something really random, like Mare.

[Aaron Jackson]

Mare. So mean. To make a British person say the name Mare in a Philadelphia accent a lot. Mar.

[George Taveras]

Mar.

[Aaron Jackson]

Mar. I think it's a great idea.

[George Taveras]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Do you like our pitches?

[Aaron Jackson]

I'm implementing them. Artists.

[George Taveras]

Good.

[Sam Taggart]

Do you ever. Oh, my God. You should get in a big fight with Drew, first of all. You're gonna start a feud.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, Start a feud.

[Sam Taggart]

And then to get, like. To be like. Get back at him for the many hurtful things he will say yes. Because he's got them locked and loaded.

[Aaron Jackson]

Trust. She's got opinions.

[Sam Taggart]

So then you should do the whole play British.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, do the whole play British.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Hello, love.

[Aaron Jackson]

Wait, can I tell a Drew Droege story, please? Because he does have a lot of opinions. He is not.

[Sam Taggart]

That's weird.

[Aaron Jackson]

He's not medium as his character.

[George Taveras]

Oh, totally. Well, that's what we all love about him.

[Aaron Jackson]

No, exactly. At one time, when we were doing this last summer, somehow Lucille Ball came up, and he was like, God, don't get me started on that cunt. Like, Lucille Ball. Do you know? He just hates her.

[George Taveras]

Oh, God, that's good.

[Sam Taggart]

That's really good.

[Aaron Jackson]

And then when we were posing for publicity pictures for this, the photographer kept going, give me something. Let's do a wacky one. Think Lucille Ball. And Drew is, like, see him physically painting him.

[George Taveras]

So do we know why he doesn't like Lucille Ball?

[Aaron Jackson]

You know, he's read a bunch of things. He's like, she was actually mean or whatever. I don't know, but I don't even care. A woman he's never met who's beloved.

[George Taveras]

Well, it's hates her. The idea that Lucille Ball would not have been mean. The whole thing is women didn't have power at that time. There was no such thing as a woman producing her own sitcom, and she did it. Can you imagine how many people she had to murder to make that happen?

[Aaron Jackson]

You guys should watch this Aaron Sorkin film.

[George Taveras]

Can I tell you something? I couldn't get through it.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah. No offense to all involved.

[George Taveras]

No. It was one of the worst films I've ever seen.

[Aaron Jackson]

I just thought it so to be. And it's like, funny. People aren't always funny.

[Sam Taggart]

It's like.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's a movie about one of the funniest people and not a joke in it.

[George Taveras]

I was shocked.

[Aaron Jackson]

Should we laugh a little bit?

[George Taveras]

I was shocked at how bad it was for Nicole. She was nominated for an Oscar.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

That's okay. Yeah. She's doing okay.

[George Taveras]

Well, not really. She's getting divorced. Being the Ricardos, Remember?

[Sam Taggart]

I remember. It came out. Sure.

[Aaron Jackson]

Well, watch it tonight.

[George Taveras]

Do I have to watch it? It's really bad.

[Aaron Jackson]

Do I have to? Mommy.

[Sam Taggart]

I hate when you guys all watch movies.

[George Taveras]

Sorry.

[Sam Taggart]

Sorry.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Sometimes if a movie is bad, you should just be like, this one's not coming out.

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh, God. I know, but think of all the people that worked so hard on.

[George Taveras]

I mean, I am.

[Aaron Jackson]

What else should we talk about?

[Sam Taggart]

Should we do our first segment?

[Aaron Jackson]

That's a play.

[George Taveras]

I was enjoying making suggestions.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I think we've suggested a lot. I think it would just take a while to implement all that.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

When the play is in four hours. Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

We need rehearsals.

[George Taveras]

Can I just say if Drew is listening? I really like.

[Sam Taggart]

He's not. I really like folks. He's not.

[George Taveras]

I really look up to Drew. I'm like.

[Sam Taggart]

I love.

[George Taveras]

What are. It's like, I just. I find he's such a treasure in our community. And I. I know there are other people that also write and star in plays. I'm not saying he's the only one, but there is something. The. The way he manages.

[Aaron Jackson]

Full of Found. Dad, I don't.

[George Taveras]

I'm not familiar. I'm not.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't know that one.

[George Taveras]

I don't know. Is that someone you know from acting school?

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, Gola school. There's someone I know from acting school.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, cool.

[Aaron Jackson]

They were really bad.

[George Taveras]

I've heard they're a real cunt.

[Sam Taggart]

Totally.

[George Taveras]

Just really mean to everyone they meet. And. Universally hated.

[Aaron Jackson]

Universally abhorred.

[George Taveras]

Has a kind of a rapper mentality of, you know, bursting into every room and making it all about themselves.

[Aaron Jackson]

A rapper? A rapper?

[George Taveras]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

What are you talking about?

[Aaron Jackson]

Do they usually burst into rooms?

[Sam Taggart]

If you were talking about maybe the Kool Aid Man, I'd be like, sure. That's what the Kool Aid Man.

[George Taveras]

Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

He says it's like a rap.

[George Taveras]

When you say someone has a Rapper ethos. That means they're like larger than life.

[Sam Taggart]

And they're bursting into rooms.

[Aaron Jackson]

Sorry, hun, you're canceled.

[Sam Taggart]

That makes no sense.

[George Taveras]

Do you not think of rappers as.

[Sam Taggart]

Being like, george, you're digging your heels in in a way that's so insane. No, it's not insane.

[Aaron Jackson]

One time I saw Cupcake the rapper.

[George Taveras]

Okay, that's not what I mean when I say rapper. I mean a male rapper.

[Sam Taggart]

You don't think.

[Aaron Jackson]

You think Cupcake doesn't rap.

[Sam Taggart]

You think Cupcake doesn't rap.

[Aaron Jackson]

You think she's a singer. Oh, my God, that's amazing.

[Sam Taggart]

You think she's a pop girly because. Oh, she's a woman. That's interesting. She's a woman. That's interesting.

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh, but she was really late for her show one time and she did, she came, I want to say, like over an hour. And she goes, sorry, I couldn't find my panties, and then started.

[George Taveras]

Oh, I think I was at that show.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, it was.

[George Taveras]

It was in Brooklyn.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yes, yes.

[George Taveras]

It was in like 2016 or something.

[Aaron Jackson]

Something like that. Yes.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, I was at that.

[Aaron Jackson]

Sorry, I couldn't tell.

[George Taveras]

And then you know what she did? She pressed play. I'm not kidding. Pressed play on the album and rapped over it. It wasn't like a backing track. It was fully just the album on Spotify.

[Aaron Jackson]

I need. That's nice.

[George Taveras]

It was incredible.

[Aaron Jackson]

She forgot her fan and her band. But yeah, Drew's great.

[Sam Taggart]

The rapper, rapper vibe on Drew. I've always said, total rapper.

[Aaron Jackson]

So what do you guys do?

[Sam Taggart]

So should we do our first segment?

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh, right.

[Sam Taggart]

I think we should. So air. The first segment, as you know, is called Straight Shooters, where we ask you this thing or this other thing and the only rule is you can't ask any follow up questions.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Or we'll kill your ass.

[George Taveras]

The Heritage Foundation. Or the chair of Pantsuit Nation.

[Aaron Jackson]

Chair of Pantsuit Nation.

[Sam Taggart]

City that never sleeps Or a pity to have never skeet the pity.

[George Taveras]

Lather, rinse, repeat, control, alt, delete or that home is oblique.

[Aaron Jackson]

Oblique. I'm always doing the last one.

[Sam Taggart]

A seven minute standing O. Or a heaven sent manly ho.

[Aaron Jackson]

You have heaven sent manly ho. Of course.

[George Taveras]

Decor that's gauche. Or J' adore Juliet Binoch Decor that's gauche.

[Sam Taggart]

Attending a baby shower, presenting a lady.

[Aaron Jackson]

A flower baby shower.

[George Taveras]

Ooh, hip hip hooray. Or beep beep, he's gay.

[Aaron Jackson]

Beep beep, he's gay.

[Sam Taggart]

Corporations are people. Or fornication is evil.

[Aaron Jackson]

Corporations are people.

[George Taveras]

Whoa, we really brought Our A game to that one.

[Aaron Jackson]

Those were great.

[George Taveras]

That was really good.

[Sam Taggart]

That's crazy. I actually did that at this coffee shop where they gave me the George Severus branded coffee.

[George Taveras]

You did what?

[Sam Taggart]

My Straight shooters coffee shop.

[George Taveras]

Wow. You were really inspired by my coffee.

[Sam Taggart]

I was really inspired by your brand of coffee.

[George Taveras]

I was gonna say this is too busy. Visually, it's like he's full of notes today.

[Aaron Jackson]

He wants to fix the world.

[George Taveras]

I don't know if you can tell.

[Sam Taggart]

Talking about him like he's a baby. Oh, he is fuss. He just wants to fix the world today. Huh.

[Aaron Jackson]

He needs a nap.

[George Taveras]

Uh oh.

[Sam Taggart]

Somebody has creative direction.

[George Taveras]

Do you see what I'm talking about?

[Aaron Jackson]

This is.

[George Taveras]

I'm. I'm fully. I'm pointing out a to go coffee cup for anyone listening and apologies. It says I heart gc Fine. The IGC are made to look like clocks that turn over like the sub. Like the train station.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Taveras]

Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Then there's a heart. Fine with the heart. Has.

[Sam Taggart]

Has a pulse.

[George Taveras]

Pulse line on it, which to me is scary. And then there is a humanoid stop sign with an angel making peace. Making a peace sign with a halo.

[Aaron Jackson]

And what GC even is that the cocktail?

[Sam Taggart]

Grand coffee.

[George Taveras]

Grand coffee.

[Aaron Jackson]

Okay.

[George Taveras]

Then we have the New York skyline and more heartbeats here. It's like, what message are we sending?

[Aaron Jackson]

Heartbeat is negative. Yeah. That to me, I guess that feels like a hospital. Also the angel, the halo and the heart. I feel death.

[Sam Taggart]

I feel death. I'm getting death.

[Aaron Jackson]

I feel the guardian angel. I don't feel like I want a cup of coffee.

[Sam Taggart]

It's giving death.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's giving death. Tim Gunn. It's giving. Designers, designers, what will Nina say?

[George Taveras]

Designers, can I ask you to gather round please? This is giving depth.

[Sam Taggart]

Your cuff is giving death.

[Aaron Jackson]

I think Jimmy Fallon and Precious.

[Sam Taggart]

I also think there's something about maximalism like this, where it's very MIA Album cover.

[George Taveras]

Yes, it's very mia. It's glitch art.

[Sam Taggart]

Glitch art.

[George Taveras]

This is a glitch art.

[Sam Taggart]

It's commentary on the web.

[George Taveras]

Yes, completely. And it's commentary on like, how we're inundated. We're always inundated with information and they're just harvesting our thoughts and views.

[Aaron Jackson]

Of course I support artists and I'm so proud of you.

[George Taveras]

If you think an artist made that, you're living in a dream world. My friend who made it, though, I would say I don't even.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, it's not even AI.

[George Taveras]

I think it's Someone whose job isn't clip art. Yeah, it's. It's like someone. They didn't have a graphic designer to make it, so someone was just like, all right, let's put in, like, five things.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, the question is, like, when they made that, did they become an artist?

[Aaron Jackson]

Wait, also, the moon is behind the Empire State Building. It's not even just.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, it's so much.

[Sam Taggart]

Check it out.

[George Taveras]

Check it out.

[Aaron Jackson]

Check out Grand Town.

[Sam Taggart]

You guys go to Grand Coffee.

[George Taveras]

Air.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

What is your straight topic?

[Aaron Jackson]

Okay, well, I didn't mean to bring it back to theater.

[Sam Taggart]

You bring it back to your.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's not my play. It's not my play.

[George Taveras]

We get it. You're in a play.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I'm in a play.

[Aaron Jackson]

I wanna say my straight topic is musical theater.

[George Taveras]

This is obviously an insane thing to posit because musical theater is kind of a classic gay guy, gay guy thing. And almost in a cliche way, it's like saying, like, award shows. Like, it's like Lady Gaga.

[Aaron Jackson]

Lady Gaga. But I just want to say, as someone, I used to. To do it a lot. And coming up, it's very like. Well, first of all, it's basic, and basic is straight. Do you know what I mean?

[Sam Taggart]

It's confusing, though, because it's niche and basic.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's niche and basic.

[George Taveras]

But so is anime. Sorry, not anime.

[Aaron Jackson]

But anime is kind of niche and basically.

[George Taveras]

But anime, I think, is also kind of, like, elevated and can be sophisticated. What I meant to say was so is, like. So is, like, nerd culture. Like.

[Aaron Jackson]

Sondheim.

[George Taveras]

Fuck, like, pre. Big Marvel comic books. You know what I mean? That is both niche and. That was both niche and basic.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, yeah. You were, like, lame and a nerd. But also, it's like, I know a lot about, whatever, Aquaman or something. Okay. But it's also big, like, church girl energy. Like, a lot, like, Mormons love musical theater.

[Sam Taggart]

That makes sense.

[Aaron Jackson]

Love it. And when you do it, like, a lot growing up, you meet a lot of Mormons, like, hyper Christian gals, and a lot of Broadway is full of these. Like, they all go to this church in Times Square.

[Sam Taggart]

Really?

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's, like, super Christian. And I think there's something about the extremely stringent schedule and the, like, using your voice, sort of like God's gift. It all just sort of feels interesting. It feels very straight.

[George Taveras]

I was gonna maybe go a different direction, but also escapism. It's like escape. It's almost like how I imagine. I imagine not to. I imagine, like Disney adults.

[Aaron Jackson]

I Was gonna say very Disney adult. A Disney gays. Obviously, that's like a. But it's like, that's really straight to me. To be a Disney gay.

[George Taveras]

Well, yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, there's a. And. And also. And I think both musical theater and Disney have this. It is a suspended childhood thing. Like, it is. It's wanting to exist in a childlike universe where. Where bad things don't exist, which is also very like avoiding sin. And I understand that musicals do also. I understand that since next to normal, all musicals are about mental health. But before that. But I.

[Aaron Jackson]

But the take. The take.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, you think he's not gonna have the take.

[Aaron Jackson]

But, you know, we're gonna get through an hour plus, you know, Oklahoma.

[George Taveras]

Oklahoma. You get to exist in a world where there is. You don't have to think about the real world temptations you have.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, well.

[George Taveras]

And they're also kind of like, often morality tales.

[Sam Taggart]

Is there sexuality in musical theater?

[Aaron Jackson]

I think some of it. Like, I do like some musicals, but most are pretty painful, you know, Most are pretty embarrassing and hard. But there are some good ones. And some of them can be horny.

[Sam Taggart]

I think when someone has, like, some good ones.

[George Taveras]

But I'm like.

[Aaron Jackson]

But the horniness, specifically, I think when someone sings really well, like, actually. Well, not like Broadway. Like, it's like a yummy. Like, that, to me, is horny. And then if they're singing really well and acting horny at the same time, that is horny.

[George Taveras]

Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

But not like Nicole. I loved Sunset Boulevard and loved Nicole in it, but that wasn't horny to me. That was like a camp. Sure. You know, it's interesting. But I think it. Yeah. Ultimately, I think it may be like, think about if you love Hamilton. That's not gay. Gay.

[George Taveras]

No. Right.

[Aaron Jackson]

I mean, there's.

[George Taveras]

Well. But I think there's a difference.

[Aaron Jackson]

And even Living Wicked, like.

[George Taveras]

Yeah. I think that's strange, certainly.

[Sam Taggart]

No, you're right. You're right. In fact, it makes it kind of. I find it alienating because everyone's like, this is a gay thing. Yeah. But I'm like, but everyone that's liking it isn't gay.

[Aaron Jackson]

I'm not fucking to this at basement.

[Sam Taggart]

Literally. It's like, mom's driving.

[Aaron Jackson]

Right. That's how I got into musicals, is. My mom loved musicals. And when we drive, we'd listen to, like, Les Mis and shit.

[George Taveras]

Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

And I was like, oh, I like this from my mom. And she's straight as hell.

[Sam Taggart]

My straight mom, by the way.

[Aaron Jackson]

By the way.

[Sam Taggart]

Not a bi part in her.

[George Taveras]

Oh, your mom isn't bi?

[Aaron Jackson]

My mom's not bi.

[George Taveras]

That's really.

[Sam Taggart]

I tried. It's tough.

[Aaron Jackson]

I.

[George Taveras]

Well, okay. Something that is gay about it is like the old Hollywood glamour or the old Broadway glamour of it all. When you think about divas, like, divas were.

[Aaron Jackson]

Diva worship is musical.

[George Taveras]

That's gay. To be like, I love Bernadette Peters is gay. That's not straight.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yes.

[George Taveras]

What is straight about it is the first of all the contemporary Broadway landscape where it's like everything is an adaptation of like a 90s Rom com or something. But then also, I think it's almost like musicals start out gay and then get straighter and straighter and straighter as they get bigger or.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah.

[George Taveras]

You know what I mean? It's like even frankly, something like Hamilton, I could see when it was felt, the public, I could see it being like this thing that if, you know, you know, and it's by word of mouth and isn't it so punk rock that it's like that, you know, George Washington is not white or whatever.

[Aaron Jackson]

Right, right, right. But that doesn't feel gay.

[George Taveras]

Totally. But then as it gets bigger and bigger, then it just becomes Jimmy Fallon.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, yeah. Wicked. These monoliths. Mamma Mia. Which is obviously so gay, is pretty straight.

[George Taveras]

It's like there's this range when something starts at Sondheim and when it ends, it's Jimmy Fondheim.

[Aaron Jackson]

Sondheim is pretty gay. Even though he writes all straight. He never writes queer stories.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, but is there anything gayer than only writing about straight people?

[Aaron Jackson]

Totally.

[George Taveras]

And being in deep pain.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

There's something about the thing with them getting bigger and bigger is it just becomes something to bring the family to.

[Aaron Jackson]

Exactly.

[Sam Taggart]

That's where, like, Marvel, thanks to Disney.

[Aaron Jackson]

And a lot of Broadway, is that, like, obviously the Disney ones, like Aladdin or whatever and Harry Potter, but like, even just like, when Boop was out, it's like, this is not for, like, we're pushing the medium forward sometimes.

[Sam Taggart]

The way that I don't understand the theater landscape is funny. It's like hearing about a foreign country being well also.

[Aaron Jackson]

Okay, so we went out after the play last night, and it was you two and two other human beings who are also Brooklyn gay guys. And the way you were all completely lost in Hell's Kitchen, like, where do we go? Where are we?

[Sam Taggart]

No.

[Aaron Jackson]

As if we were in another country where we did not speak the language. When I'm in Hell Kitchen, no gps.

[Sam Taggart]

There's a level of stress I'm working with because I'm like, I'm 40 minutes from where I'm supposed to be.

[Aaron Jackson]

You guys only knew what Flaming Saddles was.

[Sam Taggart]

All of you.

[Aaron Jackson]

It was like, name a bar. It was like, flaming Saddles. Like, that's crazy.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm even like, okay, so we're close to the Eagle. We're not even close to the eagle. 20 blocks away.

[George Taveras]

Like, no. Every Hell's Kitchen bar I've been to exactly once and then had like a. Frankly, like, Lynchian night there. Like, I just remember. It's like, I remember, like, included.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, why was James Corden there?

[Aaron Jackson]

No, last, when we left the Wind.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God. We all got blasted with dust in our mouths.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, it was crazy. That was. Lynch had actually to leave the. The cozy little bar, the. A tornado. We were all Isabella Rossellini.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, it was interesting to see you. It's like watching a fish, you know, get dropped into water and you're like, knowing where to go. I was like, whoa, this is freaky.

[Aaron Jackson]

Well, because I went to theater school. I have seen a lot of theater. So I do know that area. Cause I was telling you last night, we go out after a friend's show. So it's like, I know that. But I don't go to Hell's Kitchen to, like, hang out. But now I go there every single day for work.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

So you do sort of like.

[George Taveras]

It's fine. Hell's Kitchen is what I think. I have a list of places that I'm like, those are pre show or post show places. Totally. I think of that as different from Hell's Kitchen.

[Aaron Jackson]

Absolutely.

[George Taveras]

Which I imagine when you're going for.

[Aaron Jackson]

Like a gay night that feels like. We have a gay night.

[George Taveras]

Yes, exactly.

[Aaron Jackson]

You know, like, we're like, we're going to the gay bars in Hell's Kitchen. Yeah. That's a different thing than, like, I'm having a post theater.

[George Taveras]

It also stresses me out because it actually tests my. My relationship with reality. I'm like, this is an entire. This is actually the default world.

[Aaron Jackson]

That's why watching you all. It was hilarious. It was.

[Sam Taggart]

No, it's. It's truly like, what is this city through the looking?

[George Taveras]

This is someone's not. And by the way, their New York is in some ways way more valid than ours. They are midtown. Like, no, but it's like, they're invalid. They're in New York. They're in New York. We're barely in New York.

[Sam Taggart]

We're in the suburbs.

[Aaron Jackson]

We're in the suburbs. Suburbs. And then you realize too, not to whatever but when you're in Fire island, you're like, these are the people that I'm out and about with.

[Sam Taggart]

No, it's like, wait, there's only 20 gay guys I like.

[George Taveras]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And then every other gay guy is the most foreign person I've ever met. It's so different from me.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

It's really scary sometimes. I don't think. I don't think it's good when my world expands.

[Aaron Jackson]

Keep it, keep it.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm like, There's 15 guys.

[Aaron Jackson]

15 guys. They all do comedy, they all have.

[Sam Taggart]

Improv backgrounds, but they also do stand up now. And they write. Yeah, they write.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, they write, but none of it. Some of them act.

[Sam Taggart]

May.

[Aaron Jackson]

But really get space. Sometimes it does, but no one sees it.

[Sam Taggart]

And Those are the 15 guys.

[Aaron Jackson]

15 guys. My boys.

[Sam Taggart]

Population. 15 guys.

[Aaron Jackson]

15 guys.

[Sam Taggart]

That's why whenever there's an election, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Whoa. Not my 15. Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

Wait a minute.

[Sam Taggart]

He got 15 votes. Did he not.

[Aaron Jackson]

Elect him?

[Sam Taggart]

That's unanimous.

[Aaron Jackson]

Unanimous.

[Sam Taggart]

Not my 15.

[Aaron Jackson]

Where is.

[George Taveras]

Not only is it unanimous, but then if some. If one person of the 15 has, like a descending opinion, you're like, oh, God. Like, should we put him down?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I'm literally.

[Aaron Jackson]

Time for him to go. Wait. The. The propositions were so funny watching people spin out. Wait, because the liberals disagreed.

[George Taveras]

That was.

[Aaron Jackson]

And like the. And even like the. The, like the leftists.

[George Taveras]

Yes. No, that was.

[Aaron Jackson]

I was really.

[George Taveras]

Every. Every. Every, like five years, there is an issue where there's, like, legitimate disagreement among.

[Aaron Jackson]

The 15 and, like, good on both sides. Discourse.

[George Taveras]

And people don't know how to act.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah. No, they go nuts.

[George Taveras]

Because it's like.

[Aaron Jackson]

We're used to, like, slit their throat.

[George Taveras]

Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

Us versus them. But it's like. Oh, actually, people are confused.

[George Taveras]

Yeah. Yeah, people are confused. They're reading different uses.

[Aaron Jackson]

There is no.

[George Taveras]

They're both sort of. Right.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah. I loved it.

[George Taveras]

Yeah. Nuance.

[Sam Taggart]

Sorry, I. I don't pay attention to politics.

[Aaron Jackson]

Right.

[George Taveras]

You're in la.

[Aaron Jackson]

Wait, where are you registered to vote?

[Sam Taggart]

That's an amazing question.

[George Taveras]

Thank you. Did you vote? Absolute and T for Zora.

[Sam Taggart]

So I voted in the primary. So I voted in the primary, but then we changed our car insurance and accidentally registered. It's all messed up.

[Aaron Jackson]

You're a California girl now. You're Katy Perry.

[Sam Taggart]

But then I'm going to, you know, it's all complicated because then I'm going to come back and it's all messed up.

[Aaron Jackson]

So you're Avril Lavigne.

[George Taveras]

So I'm Avril, they need you to do a recount.

[Sam Taggart]

When you come back, they're like, wait, there's 16 votes. This changes everything.

[Aaron Jackson]

Wait, I thought they were in by a landslide.

[George Taveras]

I thought, I thought there were 15 gay guys.

[Aaron Jackson]

Wait, Zway doing Eric Adams. That's so funny.

[Sam Taggart]

So funny.

[Aaron Jackson]

I love that.

[Sam Taggart]

Shout out.

[Aaron Jackson]

Shout out to the girl Eric.

[George Taveras]

Shout out to the girl Eric.

[Sam Taggart]

One of the biggest divas we've got.

[George Taveras]

It really is an under discussed element of like, he is a truly unique figure in America.

[Aaron Jackson]

He's a blast. Do you remember?

[Sam Taggart]

He's a blast.

[Aaron Jackson]

He's a blast.

[Sam Taggart]

This is the whole issue with. And all these people that are really horrible politicians where it's like, wait, if you just didn't have power, you would be so funny.

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh my God. Well, okay. Do you remember it was like shortly after he got elected, one of his campaigns was to stop. They're not ATVs. But you know, people like ride those things all around. And he was like, we're gonna stop these. And so he had like gathered a bunch of them up and then had a monster truck run them over. It's like, that's cut. I love that.

[Sam Taggart]

No, that's nice.

[Aaron Jackson]

That more politician theater should just be run him over with a monster truck. I'm mayor.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm mayor, by the way.

[Aaron Jackson]

That's so funny.

[Sam Taggart]

Also, mayor is sort of a funny title. I know it doesn't carry the weight of, you know, president and I know that it's an important job.

[George Taveras]

Of course.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, God.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

The word mayor is like, tell me.

[George Taveras]

Exactly what the mayor can and can't.

[Aaron Jackson]

Do because I can run shit over.

[George Taveras]

With, but the mayor is not in charge of the subway.

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh, God. Well, that's like an independent. Oh, ignorance is fine.

[George Taveras]

I'm just like, what? What can we. What can the mayor actually change? Why is he not just like the CEO of the city? Why can't he?

[Aaron Jackson]

And why did you just say he? Because.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow. Let's unpack that.

[Aaron Jackson]

Unpack.

[Sam Taggart]

And is the mayor a rapper?

[Aaron Jackson]

Jordan?

[George Taveras]

I mean, I do think Zoran is not exact. I guess he's maybe like Chance the RA forever. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Damn.

[Aaron Jackson]

Didn't he. He requested Kim Petras. That was going.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, but that's like poppy juice.

[Aaron Jackson]

I mean, I gotta say, fall from grace happening soon.

[George Taveras]

No, it's not. I'm like, he hit. I was like, this election needs to happen soon because this, this shtick is not lasting much longer. Like he. I get it. He's charmed everyone. He's charmed me. But like we are one week away from everyone turning.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, Happens. It's. That's it.

[George Taveras]

It happens.

[Aaron Jackson]

Social media.

[George Taveras]

That's the thing with social media. And he is ultimately an influencer. He's our first influencer mayor.

[Aaron Jackson]

At last.

[Sam Taggart]

At last. Thank God.

[Aaron Jackson]

At last.

[Sam Taggart]

The branding is on point. No notes from George. Creative direction was to die. Oh, he had his baba. He has no more creative direction.

[Aaron Jackson]

He had his baba.

[Sam Taggart]

Aw.

[George Taveras]

So in terms of musical theater.

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh, right.

[Sam Taggart]

That's what I was like, should we wrap up?

[Aaron Jackson]

No, no, no.

[George Taveras]

I want to know. I want to know.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, like, so that sounds like the beginning.

[George Taveras]

I want to know what is the straightest musical?

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, what's the musical?

[Aaron Jackson]

No, Wicked is pretty straight to me. But let's do, like, a non monolith. Non. Like, it's been running for 20 years. You know, like, what's the straightest? You know, like, you.

[George Taveras]

A non monolith.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, like, as the straightest musical. Because all of those are straight. Like, they've all. Because they're just for tourists.

[George Taveras]

Sure, sure, sure, sure. No offense, but even of those, like, is Phantom straight?

[Aaron Jackson]

I feel like Phantom's gayer than Wicked because Phantom is about a masked man who's obsessed with an opera singer.

[George Taveras]

Completely.

[Aaron Jackson]

And he takes her down to his foggy little land and just wants her to sing.

[George Taveras]

I almost think Steve of worship.

[Aaron Jackson]

Steva worship.

[George Taveras]

Like, is Mamma Mia straight?

[Aaron Jackson]

Mamma Mia. Even though obviously is very gay. Like, I think that's pretty straight.

[Sam Taggart]

I will say. I mean, I've only seen the film, but that was kind of horny to me.

[Aaron Jackson]

Mamma Mia.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

You know, right away, Dads, they're all like three guys and doesn't know.

[Sam Taggart]

She's literally like, I'm no loads refused.

[Aaron Jackson]

No loads.

[George Taveras]

Mamma Mia is about Meryl being no loads refused.

[Aaron Jackson]

No, it's very horny.

[Sam Taggart]

I was like, you're allowed to say this.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah. And then, like, they're all, like. All the young chorus people are, like, in swimsuits the whole time. So it's also like, oh, they're singing abba like, kind of naked.

[George Taveras]

Loads are gonna find me. I will not refuse.

[Aaron Jackson]

You must love it because of Greek.

[George Taveras]

I do love vegan. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Did you see yourself in that?

[George Taveras]

Yes, I absolutely did.

[Aaron Jackson]

Do you love Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants? Because of Greek.

[George Taveras]

Oh, yes.

[Aaron Jackson]

So I never saw that until, I wanna say, five years ago on a plane.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God.

[Aaron Jackson]

And I was entranced. I was like, this is the best film ever made.

[Sam Taggart]

No, that is the best.

[Aaron Jackson]

And they're all Beautiful.

[Sam Taggart]

All four of the girls.

[Aaron Jackson]

I was just. Look at these beautiful styles.

[George Taveras]

It also is, like, genuinely inspiring that they're all different and can be friends. I'm like, so you play. So.

[Aaron Jackson]

And the pants fit.

[Sam Taggart]

The pants fit, folks.

[George Taveras]

And the funny types. Magic pants. So magic.

[Aaron Jackson]

And what's the Gilmore Girl?

[Sam Taggart]

Alexis Bledel. When she.

[Aaron Jackson]

She. That was filmed.

[George Taveras]

That was.

[Aaron Jackson]

I was not stupid.

[George Taveras]

Right?

[Aaron Jackson]

That was filmed in Greece.

[George Taveras]

Yes.

[Aaron Jackson]

I'm like, that gig.

[George Taveras]

I know.

[Sam Taggart]

Come on.

[George Taveras]

And Blake Lively just has to play soccer.

[Aaron Jackson]

I get to make out with a hot guy in green. Greece. Yeah. I'll take that. Versus, like. Yeah, like babysitting.

[George Taveras]

Other girls are. I'm babysitting. I'm playing soccer. And literally I'm being fat shamed.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, those are.

[George Taveras]

Those are the other three. And then you get to stepmom and.

[Aaron Jackson]

Then she's like, I'll go to Greece and like, off. I'm like, sign me up and I'll do the sequel too. I love it. Good for her.

[George Taveras]

Good for her. They should do that for gay guys. A sister of the traveling pants of the traveling jock strap of the traveling jock strap.

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh, brother.

[George Taveras]

And it's like we did a Lake.

[Sam Taggart]

Como high plot that was just sort of the tram.

[Aaron Jackson]

Maybe I was in it.

[Sam Taggart]

I think you were.

[Aaron Jackson]

It was jean shorts. Lake.

[George Taveras]

Lake.

[Aaron Jackson]

Homo.

[Sam Taggart]

Ha. Lake, Ohio.

[Aaron Jackson]

At the annoyance. Rip.

[Sam Taggart]

RIP Brooklyn annoyance.

[Aaron Jackson]

Brooklyn annoyance.

[Sam Taggart]

A taste of Chicago at last.

[Aaron Jackson]

Sauerkraut on the hot dogs. Or no, that's not Chicago.

[Sam Taggart]

No, no.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's hot peppers and mustard. Hot peppers and mustard.

[Sam Taggart]

And a pickle spear, of course.

[Aaron Jackson]

Of course. Boys Town. That's the best of the three of Hell's Kitchen. Boys Town.

[George Taveras]

West Hollywood.

[Aaron Jackson]

West Hollywood or the Castro still, it's gonna be Boystown.

[George Taveras]

It's gonna be Boystown. I think I would say. I mean, I would certainly say West Hollywood is dead last.

[Aaron Jackson]

Fuck.

[George Taveras]

And I guess. I guess, like dead last. Maybe do Boys Town then. Castro.

[Aaron Jackson]

Castro has a cause.

[George Taveras]

Castro used to.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, there's an old school charm like Castro.

[George Taveras]

You always think it's gonn basic than it is. It actually, like, is fun.

[Sam Taggart]

I wouldn't say actually. It's like sex positive Fun.

[George Taveras]

Sex positive Sick.

[Sam Taggart]

Also, I'm being serious. There's naked men on the street.

[George Taveras]

Yes, there's naked men on the street. And also you think because San Francisco is all like. Or over the last few years has been all like annoying tech transplants, you think that's what the Castro is going to be. But then it's like, you'll see like a Sort of leathery old gay couple walking around. You're like, okay, great.

[Aaron Jackson]

Also, the bar. You know how, like, West Hollywood and even Hell's Kitchen, they have just sort of the, like, click art, gay bar feel. But Michael and I were there in December, January or something, and they have. There's like, a bar that, like, feels like an old ship, and there's, like, a big fish tank in it, you know, and you're like, okay, this is not, like, it's not just. Yeah.

[George Taveras]

Like, they've maintained it. I mean, a lot of it has.

[Aaron Jackson]

Where do, like, the gay guys that live in San Francisco, like, go, though?

[George Taveras]

I mean, it depends. There's like, well, tummy.

[Aaron Jackson]

Depends on what? Bidet.

[George Taveras]

I mean, I like El Rio. Have you been all. By the way, all my references for anyone listening are 15 years old, so don't write in.

[Aaron Jackson]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

I go to Hole in the Wall.

[George Taveras]

Hole in the Wall.

[Aaron Jackson]

Okay.

[George Taveras]

See, I don't really like Hole in the Wall. No offense.

[Sam Taggart]

I go to the leather spots.

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh, duh.

[George Taveras]

It's not.

[Aaron Jackson]

I know you.

[George Taveras]

I. When I was living there in. You know, again, 15 years ago, I like Del Rio. I mean, the Stud was, like, a place.

[Aaron Jackson]

Cool.

[Sam Taggart]

San Francisco listeners are screaming.

[Aaron Jackson]

They're like. They're like, those are all wrong.

[George Taveras]

No, they probably are.

[Sam Taggart]

We're all going to splash.

[Aaron Jackson]

Splash river splash here.

[Sam Taggart]

Splash in New York.

[George Taveras]

Let's hear it for New York.

[Aaron Jackson]

Splash used to be open.

[Sam Taggart]

Do you like to. I do like to. To date oneself through knowing which gay bars were around when.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, the fact that I was alive when Sugar Land was alive.

[Aaron Jackson]

Sugar Land.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm like, I'm 100.

[Aaron Jackson]

Wait, do you remember Love Gun?

[Sam Taggart]

Do I remember Love Gun? Love Gun.

[George Taveras]

That's.

[Sam Taggart]

Love Gun is my.

[George Taveras]

This is literally the podcast ever the TikTok Old gays, where they're, like, literally reminiscing about, like, what the.

[Aaron Jackson]

And we're like a barbershop core tattoo.

[Sam Taggart]

Respect your elders, honey, darling.

[Aaron Jackson]

Love Gun was open, but we had.

[George Taveras]

To record an ad for the old gays podcast that started with, respect your elders, honey.

[Sam Taggart]

People were making fun of us.

[Aaron Jackson]

They should have.

[Sam Taggart]

No Love Gun.

[George Taveras]

At one point, I had to record it, and I sent in the file, and then I got an email back that was like, this file doesn't open. I never responded.

[Aaron Jackson]

This file doesn't open. This file doesn't open. Due to bigotry.

[Sam Taggart]

No. Love Gun was. So they were busing in gay guys from Hell's Kitchen to Brooklyn because they didn't think Brooklyn gay guys mattered.

[George Taveras]

Kind of like they do with animal.

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh, my God.

[Sam Taggart]

No. But they were literally paying for buses. But it was so crazy, Mamdani. Free buses for people only for gay guys from Hell's Kitchen to Williamsburg.

[Aaron Jackson]

That's why I voted.

[Sam Taggart]

And then everyone hated it so much because Brooklyn was not in a place where they were ready for a place with a cover yet.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah. And it was like, $20 cover.

[Sam Taggart]

It was crazy.

[Aaron Jackson]

Wait, what?

[Sam Taggart]

And by the way, this was 1982.

[Aaron Jackson]

1982.

[Sam Taggart]

And then, so then within two, Cindy.

[Aaron Jackson]

Lauper just released her first track.

[Sam Taggart]

Madonna was a name I was just hearing. And so then with the pyramid, that's what I fisted.

[George Taveras]

Larry Kramer.

[Sam Taggart]

All the gay guys stopped going, like, within two weeks.

[Aaron Jackson]

I remember it was like, oh, there's a new place. Let's all go. We all went. We're like, this sucks. And we stopped and sleep.

[Sam Taggart]

Then they stopped charging a cover. And then I start going every single weekend. There's approximately three people inside. And I'm like, this is my favorite bar on earth.

[Aaron Jackson]

And then. And this is how you know death. Now they started filming web series there.

[Sam Taggart]

And even porn.

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh, yeah, porn. Cause I remember, like, you know, in my research, saw the big love gun sign, like, in a porn. I was like, oh, my God, like, sending it to everyone.

[George Taveras]

Like, love gun.

[Aaron Jackson]

Can you believe it?

[Sam Taggart]

They would charge you different prices for drinks depending on their mood, because they were like, oh, this place doesn't matter.

[Aaron Jackson]

Well, that was very this and that too. RIP. That was totally different. That was like a real.

[Sam Taggart]

That was real.

[Aaron Jackson]

That had real Brooklyn.

[Sam Taggart]

That had an energy.

[Aaron Jackson]

I remember when it was a comedy theater before it was this and that. The COVID I did improv there, too. Great. Failure. Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

It's fun to reminisce.

[George Taveras]

Yeah, that was really fun.

[Aaron Jackson]

You weren't here for this and that.

[George Taveras]

I wasn't here for any of that.

[Aaron Jackson]

Pat Regan's first gay bar was this and that.

[George Taveras]

Wow. Me and Josh. Sadly, during that time, I probably lived in Boston, which I've also lived in Boston, I must say. Were you a club Cafe queen? One of the worst gay bars I've ever been to. No offense. Love Boston.

[Aaron Jackson]

I didn't go out that much because I was, like, 18 to 22 years old and poor.

[George Taveras]

That's where your conservatory was.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yes, the Boston Conservatory.

[George Taveras]

Boston Conservatory. Sort of a gay bar in and of itself.

[Aaron Jackson]

Absolutely. Yeah. Shh. You won't believe what my new friend.

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[George Taveras]

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[Sam Taggart]

Okay, we should do our final segment.

[George Taveras]

Okay, okay.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm not asking anymore.

[Aaron Jackson]

I'm not asking permission she's got her mommy pants on. Mommy's mad. Mommy's mad at her boys.

[Sam Taggart]

She's got her mommy pants on. Yeah, let's do it.

[Aaron Jackson]

Let's do a little segment.

[Sam Taggart]

The way that. The way that what? You know, it's. I'm so excited for you and your future.

[Aaron Jackson]

What's left of it.

[George Taveras]

Honey, I'm so excited for you and your.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm so excited.

[George Taveras]

Talk about mommy pants for you. We're dropping you off. We're dropping you off at Vassar.

[Aaron Jackson]

You're gonna be somebody one day.

[Sam Taggart]

When you are a 55 year old gay guy, it is over 40. Like when you are like you've been drunk for like eight hours straight and it's 7pm and you're like, someone's got our mommy pants on.

[Aaron Jackson]

So you think I'm gonna be an alcoholic?

[George Taveras]

You're gonna be the Drew Droge character from the play.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I just. I just think if you want to like make a splash, you do need to be an alcoholic. You do need to find it within you. I know it's gonna be hard on your body, but that's what the theater training's for.

[Aaron Jackson]

That's what the training's for, honey. Eight shows a week, eight drinks a night. Cause those little things.

[Sam Taggart]

Imagine a 22 year old hearing that found dead.

[Aaron Jackson]

Wait, can I tell a story, please? I don't know if this is allowed to be told. I heard this third hand from somebody who was there. Someone was.

[Sam Taggart]

Is this also about James Corden?

[Aaron Jackson]

No, no. Somebody was.

[Sam Taggart]

Was at.

[Aaron Jackson]

One of our mutual friends was at Fire Island. Like rich gay guy, old.

[George Taveras]

Rich gay guy, old picture.

[Aaron Jackson]

It likes to invite youth over and have dinner and be fancy, have cocktails and then tell them about the past. That's sort of the toll you pay. But it's a nice house and everybody likes to go whenever.

[George Taveras]

Oh, I ate the toll that house.

[Aaron Jackson]

But yeah, yeah, I'm sure you do.

[George Taveras]

It's like the one house that has the.

[Aaron Jackson]

I'm sure you paid the toll. Oh, I paid the toll anyways.

[George Taveras]

No one wanted me there.

[Aaron Jackson]

Our friend was there.

[George Taveras]

They said we have. We can't tell if you're old or young.

[Aaron Jackson]

Our friend was there and also the actor Andrew Scott was there.

[George Taveras]

Okay.

[Aaron Jackson]

And then some guy was there with his like young. I'm just throwing in the age 22, but let's just say 20s. I don't know how old this person was. This young boyfriend was there. And the young boyfriend is in a Broadway musical, like in the chorus of a Broadway Musical finds out Andrew Scott is an actor. Was like, oh, you're an actor already. Like, hilarious. And was like, what are you in? And this is when he was in Vanya. He was like, I'm in Vanya. And they were like, where's that? And he's like, it's at the Lucille Lorchau. Never heard of it. And then they're like, I'm on Broadway.

[Sam Taggart]

Then.

[Aaron Jackson]

Okay. Then the queer elder is telling their story, and they're talking about the AIDS epidemic. And they're talking about how when your answering machine was full, you knew, like, oh, one of your friends got it. And so he's like, this is so bad. He's like, I walk home and my answering machine's full, and I'll never forget the day. And I'm just making a. He's like, I'll never forget the day. It was like, April 2, 1991. And then the kid goes, that's my sister's birthday.

[Sam Taggart]

That is so good. That is crazy. I want to give credit to the.

[Aaron Jackson]

Person who told me the story, but I don't want to in case they don't want everyone to know that they're gone.

[Sam Taggart]

DM Aaron for the credit.

[Aaron Jackson]

I know who told me this story, and it's your story. I'm telling it.

[George Taveras]

Oh, my God.

[Aaron Jackson]

Wow. Isn't that good?

[George Taveras]

That is legendary.

[Sam Taggart]

That's nice. That's nice.

[Aaron Jackson]

I love the youth.

[Sam Taggart]

No, it's just always gonna happen.

[George Taveras]

Yeah. And that was us.

[Sam Taggart]

No, for sure.

[George Taveras]

You know, mere decades ago.

[Aaron Jackson]

No. I was never getting invited to a rich gay guy's house. I'm still not getting invited to a rich gay guy's house.

[George Taveras]

Well, the likelihood is not gonna increase as you get older.

[Aaron Jackson]

Come on, baby. DM me. I'm hot.

[Sam Taggart]

Keep up those socials.

[George Taveras]

Keep up those socials.

[Sam Taggart]

Our final segment is called Shout Outs. And in this segment we pay homage to the grand strait tradition of the radio. Shout out. Shouting out.

[George Taveras]

Anything.

[Sam Taggart]

People, places, things, ideas that we are enjoying. I have one off the top of my head. What is up? Freaks, losers, and most importantly, perverts around the globe. I would like to give a huge shout out to Alexis Bledel. I don't know why I feel such strong feelings about Alexis Bledel. I feel that she is my cousin. I won't say sister, but there's something about her that I'm like, we grew up together. We either went to school together or we are cousins. There is something so familial about Alexis Bledel. And whenever she gets a role, I'm like, damn, she did that. And whenever she doesn't get a role, I'm like, I'm so glad. She's, like, taking a break. Like Alexis Bledel to me, you know, she is going to. I can't wait till she's older because she's 55. She's 55. She's gonna have an amazing life, an amazing career, and I think she's already made a huge impact on the culture. And I think she has been happy and healthy the entire time. And I know because I'm an empath and she is my cousin. So shout out to Alexis Liddell. I don't know how related, but I just feel it. Xoxo, Sam.

[George Taveras]

Woo. Mwah.

[Aaron Jackson]

Do you think they'll do a reboot? They already did. Where she's the mom, though.

[George Taveras]

Oh, that I don't know.

[Aaron Jackson]

And then have a precocious daughter of her own.

[Sam Taggart]

She should have a up crazy daughter with addiction.

[George Taveras]

It should be. She should be a mom on Euphoria.

[Aaron Jackson]

Zendaya with the drugs.

[George Taveras]

Oh, yeah. Her daughter should be Zendaya heroine.

[Aaron Jackson]

I can't wait for season three of Euphoria.

[Sam Taggart]

I can't wait.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's going to be nuts.

[George Taveras]

They're all going to be in their 40s.

[Aaron Jackson]

I know.

[Sam Taggart]

No, it's fully a brand new cast. It's like, what's going on?

[Aaron Jackson]

I can't wait.

[Sam Taggart]

It's going to be a game show. Won't make any sense.

[Aaron Jackson]

Zendaya's a host.

[George Taveras]

It's on Quibi.

[Aaron Jackson]

She's relapsing. She threw the prices right.

[Sam Taggart]

It's like Joker 3.

[George Taveras]

She's relapsing and doing the prices right. It's about her. It's the comeback. It's the comeback. But it's. But it's Zendaya. Instead of Lisa Kudrow, she's doing a reality show about how she's like, I can't. About how season three of Euphoria keeps getting rescheduled.

[Sam Taggart]

That's gonna be good.

[Aaron Jackson]

That's gonna be really good.

[Sam Taggart]

I can't wait.

[George Taveras]

What's up, freaks and losers? I want to give a shout out to. I'm gonna say it. I want to give a shout out to our friend Rachel Sennett. Girl, you did that. I am so. I am proud of her. Like a father is proud of his daughter.

[Aaron Jackson]

Like a cousin.

[George Taveras]

Like a cousin. Except I do know her personally.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, so do we all. No, I'm saying, unlike Alexis Bledel, there's a familiarity.

[George Taveras]

All right. I just want to say, you know, every you know, she's funny, she's a great writer, she's a, she's extremely hard working, she's done it all. But I want to specifically shout out her acting talents. I think that like the classical training is really jumping out. I think she's is a very gifted actress, which not a lot of these girls can say for themselves. And I think we have to be honest about that.

[Aaron Jackson]

Let's be honest.

[Sam Taggart]

Let's be honest.

[George Taveras]

But when I'm seeing her, there's things happening up here. She is, it's a completely embodied performance. You might think it's easy to play, you know, a kind of exaggerated version of yourself or something, or you might think that's Rachel's doing wrong. She is doing something that very few people can do. And the Stella Adler is oozing through her veins. And so I just wanna say congrats, Rachel. We're all very proud of you here at the Brooklyn alt Comedy Scene.

[Aaron Jackson]

We are, yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Try again.

[Aaron Jackson]

Josh Sharp, he's a comedian.

[George Taveras]

I don't know him.

[Sam Taggart]

Josh Sharp, he's one of the 15. You'd love him. He's one of the 15.

[Aaron Jackson]

Me and him did joke punch ups on that movie Bodies, Bodies, Bodies.

[George Taveras]

Oh, yeah.

[Aaron Jackson]

And we were doing it before it was cast and then we were talking to the people and they're like, oh, we're seeing Rachel Sennott for this one part. And I'm not claiming that anything to do with her getting that part, but we were like, you have to cast her. And then we just wrote every joke for that character.

[George Taveras]

Literally like, oh, it's gonna be generational talent.

[Aaron Jackson]

And then she of course booked it and was so good in that movie.

[Sam Taggart]

She was really good in that movie.

[Aaron Jackson]

She was really good.

[Sam Taggart]

It's your turn.

[Aaron Jackson]

Hey, pigs, hogs and slop fucks. Good to see you all. Something I'm really enjoying these days that I want to shout out and these two can attest is a gin martini with an olive, but not dirt dirty. I'm really, I'm really in that bag. I love to have one of those and just feel like, just really feel like that girl. Feel like Margot Channing.

[George Taveras]

I'm really in that bag. I like to have one of those.

[Aaron Jackson]

I should be a host.

[George Taveras]

It's very. That.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's very. It's giving me having one.

[Sam Taggart]

It's giving death.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, I'm loving that.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, and I couldn't agree more. Well, it was so beautiful when you ordered that last night. And I gotta say, I'll have the same.

[Aaron Jackson]

Oh, I Love Sal.

[Sam Taggart]

I love Saint.

[Aaron Jackson]

I love what she's having.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, honey, that's from Euphoria.

[George Taveras]

It's about heroin.

[Aaron Jackson]

Season two. Mod Apatow's line.

[George Taveras]

Yeah. Zendaya's really, like, strung out. And then my appetite goes. I'll have what she's having.

[Sam Taggart]

God, I remember that. I remember where I was when I saw that scene. I was on set.

[Aaron Jackson]

It was so sad. Because I'm the showrunner.

[George Taveras]

It's impossible to direct.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm the showrunner and it's. The reason it's so delayed is because I'm busy.

[Aaron Jackson]

Busy. This pod.

[George Taveras]

We were on tour.

[Aaron Jackson]

Congrats on the tour. And then.

[Sam Taggart]

Plus, I've just been so busy.

[Aaron Jackson]

Right.

[George Taveras]

Contemplating moving back to New York.

[Sam Taggart]

It's a lot of things.

[Aaron Jackson]

Getting divorced, getting remarried.

[Sam Taggart]

Divorce. Remarried. Divorced, remarried. Will they. Won't they all different guys?

[Aaron Jackson]

Ross and Rachel.

[Sam Taggart]

Check out messy white gays.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yes, please.

[Sam Taggart]

On. Not Broadway.

[Aaron Jackson]

Off Broadway at the Duke Theater. Tickets available wherever tickets are available.

[George Taveras]

Off Broadway, but like, really on 42nd Street. It's not one of those Off Broadway theaters that's, like, downtown.

[Sam Taggart]

No.

[George Taveras]

When I learned.

[Sam Taggart]

When I learned that Off Broadway could be anywhere.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's all about theater size that stressed me out. It's size Queen.

[George Taveras]

I hate it. And it is about theater size, but yours is, like, for an Off Broadway theater, you know, pretty large.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's not 199 seats.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that's gigantic.

[George Taveras]

Just make it a clean 200.

[Sam Taggart]

Honey, is 200 the limit? That makes it Broadway.

[Aaron Jackson]

No, I think it's 499seats as a Broadway house. So 499.

[George Taveras]

What is it with this 99? It's like a sailor class.

[Sam Taggart]

It Relax.

[Aaron Jackson]

It's kooky. There's a little bit of magic left in this world.

[Sam Taggart]

Zoran, do something about theater. This shit doesn't make any sense.

[George Taveras]

I completely agree. He needs to standardize it.

[Sam Taggart]

I hate this bullshit.

[George Taveras]

Do something about theater. Close the M and M store.

[Sam Taggart]

Close them.

[Aaron Jackson]

Yeah, close them all. Movies only from now on. Television. $35 million industry is doing so well.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, bitch. Well, it's the golden age of television.

[George Taveras]

Okay, okay, we have to go.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. We have to go. Goodbye.

[Aaron Jackson]

Bye.

[Sam Taggart]

Mommy's got her goodbye. Pants on. Podcast ends now.

[George Taveras]

Want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month. Discord Access and more by heading to patreon.com Stradiolab and for all our visual learners.

[Sam Taggart]

Free full length video episodes are available on our YouTube.

[George Taveras]

Now get back to work.

[Sam Taggart]

Stradiolab is a Production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and iHeart Podcasts.

[George Taveras]

Created and hosted by George Taveras and.

[Sam Taggart]

Sam Taggart executive produced by Will Ferrell Hansani and Olivia Aguilar co produced by Bay Wang Edited and engineered by Adam.

[George Taveras]

Avalos artwork by Michael Fails and Matt.

[Sam Taggart]

Grubb theme music by Ben Kling. Then the space hamster flew his hot.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Air balloon all the way to the.

[Aaron Jackson]

Bottom of the ocean.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Where did that story come from? Book Dream?

[George Taveras]

Nope.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It came from a conversation. Meet Meiko Mini plus, the AI companion that co creates personalized story adventures with your child in real time. What color was the hamster's cape and what did he pack for lunch? Unlock your child's imagination. Discover Meiko Mini plus and the Magic of AI Exclusively at Costco it's the season to come together over your holiday favorites at Starbucks.

[Aaron Jackson]

Warm up with a creamy caramel brulee.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Latte, get festive with an iced gingerbread chai or share a velvety peppermint mocha together is the best place to be at Starbucks. Want Black Friday prices without the crowds? Lowe's gets it. Shop their early Black Friday deals and beat the rush. $99 is all you need to grab a select 7 foot pre lit artificial Christmas tree for the holidays. And don't sweat what gives to get dad? They have up to 40% off select tools and accessories going on on now. That's how Lowe's celebrates Black Friday. Early selection varies by location while supplies last.

[Aaron Jackson]

Ah, greetings from my bath festive friends.

[Sam Taggart]

The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money getting 5% cash.

[George Taveras]

Back when I pay in 4.

[Aaron Jackson]

No fees, no interest. I used it to get this portable spa with jets. Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruned. Anybody make the most of your money.

[George Taveras]

This holiday with PayPal. Save the offer in the app ends.

[Aaron Jackson]

1231See PayPal.com promo terms points can be.

[George Taveras]

Redeemed for cash and more. Paying for subject to terms and approval.

[Aaron Jackson]

PayPal Inc. And MLS 910457 this is an iHeart podcast.