"Sympathy" w/ Liva Pierce

Summary

StraightioLab: "Sympathy" w/ Leva Pierce

Podcast by Big Money Players Network & iHeartPodcasts – November 25, 2025
Host(s): George Civeris & Sam Taggart
Guest: Leva Pierce

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Overview

In this episode, George and Sam welcome comedian-writer Leva Pierce to examine the concept of “Sympathy” and its place within straight culture. Using their signature hyper-intellectual, irreverent banter, they discuss how sympathy manifests in daily life, contrast it with “gay” empathy, and digress into topics including fashion on public transit, the struggles of sleep, Lady Gaga museums, lesbian tailoring, celebrity culture, and the psychology of attraction. The result is a densely packed, hilarious exploration of how sympathy (and its alternatives) shapes social communication and emotional life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Mood, Mornings & Observations on Sleep

(03:00 – 08:00)

• George reports being in a “good mood,” speculating this could be from “drinking out of [his] Cuntygo girl mug” despite it tasting slightly metallic.
• Sam discusses insomnia, jet lag travel woes, and the oddity of early-morning athletic types:
  “People were playing soccer. I’m like, so you’re on an email thread with like 40 other guys and you’re all getting up and no one’s late?” (06:08 — Sam)
• The hosts reflect on the 90s nostalgia evoked by old water bottles and the psychology of “hobby envy,” i.e., why organized straight activities like sports teams seem alien but oddly desirable:
  “Why can’t your hobby just be binge drinking and hanging out with gay guys? Like that’s what a serious adult would do.” (06:45 — George)

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2. Fashion Sociology: Observing Straight Workwear

(09:20 – 13:00)

Leva admires the contrast between midday “freelancer” and morning commuter fashion on the train:

“Usually I take [the train] in the middle of the day with the rest of the losers. Everyone’s in their sweatpants. When I go in the morning, I’m admiring everyone’s looks.” (09:43 — Leva)

• Corduroy trends, the business-casual rebellion, and wardrobe routines in the life of straight men.
• The group jokes about how wives often buy the clothes for straight men, and men’s shopping habits are based on early job routines and sales.

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3. The Museum as a Metaphor for Taste and Relatability

(15:00 – 18:40)

They discuss their ambivalence toward museums dedicated to pop culture (e.g., Lady Gaga museum in Vegas):

“We thought it was a temporary thing... This museum has been there since at least 2019. Because according to Wikipedia, that’s when the cured meat dress made it there.” (18:26 — George)

• Film/fashion museums as “starter museums” for people afraid of fine art.
• The critique of superficial celebrity exhibitions versus genuine emotional connections formed over shared pop culture objects.

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4. The NPC (Non-Player Character) Concept and Intellectual Self-Perception

(20:04 – 21:47)

• Delving into “NPC” as an insult and marker of “unreal” people. “It’s such a perfect insult... There are NPCs in the world.” (20:38 — George)
• Brief academic backgrounds: Leva describes choosing University of Chicago (after heartbreak over Northwestern rejection), and how her Maine background shaped feelings of community and difference in LGBTQ spaces.

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5. Leva’s Personal Path: Queerness, Maine, and Improv

(23:45 – 26:48)

• Leva describes her “Bossypants” obsession, the coded lesbian culture in Maine, and the unique experience of queer rural isolation:

  “No one says the word [lesbian]. Pam is living in the woods... She’s single, like, she’s clearly lesbian, but no one says the word.” (24:57 — Leva)

• They riff on the invisible lesbian network and the fantasy of “summoning” all the lesbians from the surrounding woods.

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6. Segments: “Straight Shooters” — Rapid-Fire Culture Test

(30:17 – 32:12)

• Leva plays “Straight Shooters,” choosing between options like “Income inequality or findom sexuality” and “Wife respect me please.” Her chill, “relaxed” demeanor is highlighted.
• Conversation segues to Lady Gaga’s performative “straightness” and era-appropriate activism:

  “She’s fully a straight woman who went to NYU.” (32:39 — Leva)

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7. Queer Discourse: Born This Way, Pronouns, and the Evolution of Identity Terms

(33:05 – 39:00)

• Debating the cultural moment of “Born This Way,” how its narrative style was already outmoded in activist circles.
• Nostalgic examination of discarded pronouns (ze/zir) and the “trendiness” of they/them.
• Lorde, St. Vincent, and the fine line between constructed “weirdness” and authenticity in alt-pop:

  “St. Vincent is one of the most fascinating figures... My thoughts on her map directly to my evolution as a person.” (39:27 — George)

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8. Theories on Gender, Sexuality, and Attraction

(43:31 – 46:48)

• Leva offers:

  “When you’re a baby you look at people and you’re like, that person’s cool. From the day you’re a baby, you want to be like them.” (43:31 — Leva)

• Sam and George reflect on their own upbringings (matriarchy, sisters) and how those may have shaped their queerness.
• The group aligns GQ magazine envy with mermaid obsession as gendered queer childhood motifs.

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9. Fame, Aging, and Comedic Pathology

(47:00 – 50:43)

• Hosted discussion on the idea that you’re frozen at the age you become famous.
• The isolation of pursuing comedy contrasted to other careers, and the meta-humiliation in wanting fame, as opposed to “normal” jobs.

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10. The Main Topic: “Sympathy” in Straight vs. Gay Culture

(50:47 – 63:02)

Leva’s Thesis:

“The first reaction from straight people if you bring them negativity is just, like, sympathy. ...Meanwhile, if I bring an issue to my gay friends, they’re criticizing me, they're able to immediately dive in.” (50:52 — Leva)

• Critique of stock sympathetic phrases:

  “I’m here if you need anything.” (52:51 – George)
  “Thinking of you. Thoughts and prayers. Praying for you.” (52:56 – Sam/George)

• Comparison: Straight sympathy is distant and formulaic; “gay empathy” is critical, performative, and immersive.

Sam’s Theory:

• “Straight people are bad at dealing with bad news in a real way; gay people are bad at dealing with good news.” (54:44 — Sam)
• Discussion of fundamental outlooks: straight default is optimism/shock when things go bad; gay outlook is skepticism, assuming the worst.

Empathy vs Sympathy

(56:51 – 59:38)

• Attempting to distinguish between the two:

  “Sympathy is a Broadway show. Empathy is Sleep No More.” (59:22 — Sam)

  • Sympathy: passive, hierarchical, “a bow on your wound”
  • Empathy: participatory, sometimes self-involved, more closely aligned with shared trauma processing

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11. Close: Fashion as Lesbian Culture, Final Thoughts

(71:43 – 73:59)

• The importance of tailoring and layering in lesbian culture:

  “70% of lesbian culture is tailoring... For lesbians, it’s tailoring. For gay guys, it’s ‘how do I look good in a muscle tank?’” (72:01-72:46 — George + Leva)

• Erotic charge in finding the “perfect square fit” or drape in clothing.

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Notable Quotes

• Leva Pierce (on sympathy):
  “The first reaction from straight people if you bring them negativity is just, like, sympathy... Meanwhile, if I bring an issue to my gay friends, they’re criticizing me, they're able to immediately dive in.” (50:52)

• George Civeris (on empathy):
  “Empathy is like, you have multiple personality disorder and you’re actually completely disassociating because someone told you that they are sad.” (58:12)

• Sam Taggart (on empathy/sympathy):
  “Sympathy is a Broadway show. Empathy is Sleep No More. One you’re watching, the other you’re in.” (59:22)

• Leva Pierce (on fashion):
  “So much of lesbian culture is tailoring... it is erotic.” (72:13 / 73:54)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Opening banter / Sleep struggles / Hobby culture: 03:00 – 08:00
• Fashion on the train / Straight workwear: 09:20 – 13:00
• Museum talk / Lady Gaga house: 15:00 – 18:40
• NPCs & academic background: 20:04 – 21:47
• Queer in Maine, Bossypants, “the woods”: 23:45 – 26:48
• Straight Shooters (rapid quiz): 30:17 – 32:12
• Born This Way, pronouns, St. Vincent/Lorde: 33:05 – 39:00
• Queer identity, childhood influences: 43:31 – 46:48
• Fame & age / stand-up psychology: 47:00 – 50:43
• Main Topic—Sympathy (discussion): 50:47 – 63:02
• Empathy/Sympathy metaphors: 56:51 – 59:38
• Tailoring, lesbian fashion: 71:43 – 73:59
• Shoutouts: 74:09 – 78:14

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Memorable Moments

• The Lady Gaga “Meat Dress” realization, and the assertion:

  “They cured the meat dress, folks. It’s the real meat dress, and it’s cured.” (18:00 — George)

• The running joke about “sympathy as a knife,” referencing pop-star feuds and Taylor Swift.
• The analogy of empathy as immersive/participatory art (“Sleep No More”) versus sympathy as a conventional stage play (“Hamilton”).
• Group reflection on the oddities of fame, the impact of early environments, and the liberating notion that attraction can’t be chosen:

  “Attraction is literally real... you can’t trust that the things people say are going to be good, are going to be good.” (65:44 — Leva)

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Tone & Language

The tone is highly comedic, conversational, and analytic, with pronounced self-awareness and a penchant for calling out both highbrow and lowbrow culture. The speakers employ millennial/Gen-Z queer vernacular, engage in affectionate ribbing, and aren’t afraid of meta or self-deprecating humor.

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Final Takeaways

• Sympathy as “straight”: It’s passive, formulaic, and maintains distance from suffering.
• Gay empathy: Instead of offering pat sympathies, gay friends “dive in,” perform, and sometimes make the moment about themselves — something that’s both cathartic and potentially self-absorbed.
• Emotional pessimism vs optimism: The group draws a recurring parallel — straight culture is structured around optimism, gay culture around skepticism and critical engagement.
• Best metaphor: Sympathy is “watching a Broadway show,” empathy is “Sleep No More”—participatory, immersive, and unpredictable.
• Both sympathy and empathy have their “knives” — and community sometimes means learning to wield both.

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Closing Shoutouts

(74:09 – 78:14)

• Sam: Finding new music via movie soundtracks
• George: The design allure of Zara Home
• Leva: Ethan Hawke’s gleefully “short” and enjoyably queer performance in Richard Linklater’s Blue Moon

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Where to Find Leva

“Instagram: choppedleva. And doing shows with my duo Dukes (with Jane Wickline) in the winter.” (74:44, 79:00)

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For listeners seeking a mix of pop culture critique, queer humor, and high-level comedic riffing on the emotional economies of straight and gay friendship, this is a definitive StraightioLab episode.

Transcript

[Leva Pierce]

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[George Severis]

Hooty hi Reminder for all New York City residents that I, George Severis, am doing a show on December 3rd at the Bell House in Brooklyn, New York to celebrate the release of my debut comedy special. It will be a George and Friends show with Sabrina Wu, Marybeth Brown and hopefully some other surprise guests. So buy your tickets now. I believe they are going fast. You can find tickets at the Bell House website and in my Instagram bio and I will see you December 3rd at the bell House and that's it for now. Enjoy the show.

[Sam Taggart]

Podcast starts now. What is going on? I just. We have breaking news coming from New York City, which is that George is actually in a good mood.

[George Severis]

I have my Contigo mug, or as we called them with Darcy Cuntygo. Girl mug. Cunty Go girl mug. Wow. I sort of think, you know, when you have like a to go water bottle or to go mug of some sort and it's just been sort of washed and sort of kind of washed for like over a dec. And you're like, am I poisoning myself by still using this? That's kind of how I feel. I can't tell if I'm kind of tasting metal and that might be contributing to my good mood.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, whatever works. I guess I feel that, like, there's something so 90s, like I'm at home with my parents about drinking a glass, a mug that wasn't used, you know, less than a year ago.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And there's like unspecified dust within it.

[George Severis]

So what's up with you?

[Sam Taggart]

So pretty much I'm in New York and I couldn't sleep last night.

[George Severis]

No.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. They need to invent a way to travel where you actually sleep.

[George Severis]

Well, they need to invent more broadly, I would say a way to sleep normally, literally. Because guess what? All the options we have either make us have truly horrifying dreams. We're talking like a horse with five heads that is penetrating you.

[Sam Taggart]

What's the drug called?

[George Severis]

Nyquil.

[Sam Taggart]

No, what's the other one?

[George Severis]

Melatonin.

[Sam Taggart]

That one. When I take that one, I literally wake up punching. Like, it's like a danger. I have scared my. My loved ones.

[George Severis]

You either have horrifying dreams. We're talking like Lynchian nightmares. Or if I'm take. I'm taking a 2 milligram edible to help me fall asleep. I wake up 15 hours later, I say, what day is it and what year?

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, and I'm dizzy.

[George Severis]

I've been fired from all my jobs. I am a free. I am a precarious freelancer with no health care in Zuron's New York. And guess what? The buses aren't free yet.

[Sam Taggart]

Not yet. Wait till Jan. I. And then I was. I had that thing because I woke up at like 6am hard wake up, and it's like, so, you know, I'm in my time. That's 3am this is interesting.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

But then I'm like, okay, so what do I do? I get up and like, be like an insane person and be like, I'm up at 6. I'm going for a run. Well, yeah, that's literally what I did, of course. And it made me feel crazy.

[George Severis]

That's the dream. I think my life will be so. And my career, to be honest, would be so much better if I was just constantly jet lagged coming from LA to New York because it's the only time I'm waking up naturally in the morning. I'm doing a morning routine, I'm doing my morning pages and then I'm selling a show by seven.

[Sam Taggart]

That's true. Today also was like, it's blustery outside, it's gray. And that actually was really doing a lot for me because as we've said, sometimes it's so nice to have an external factor, to be like, ugh, God, it's stressful outside.

[George Severis]

Yeah, well, you also can't appreciate the sunny days unless you also have gray days.

[Sam Taggart]

No, you can't.

[George Severis]

That's why everyone in LA is like, I can't remember my age. And I also got brain damage from too much Pilates.

[Sam Taggart]

Can I say something? I better. I'm on a podcast. I was looking at people who are also out running at 6:30 in the morning.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And you were like.

[Sam Taggart]

And I was like, what's your fucking.

[George Severis]

Problem in 17 years? Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm like, so what did you do last night? Like, so you're just staying in all the time and like getting up early?

[George Severis]

No, it's weird.

[Sam Taggart]

People were playing soccer. I'm like, so you're on an email thread with like 40 other guys and you're all getting up and no one's late?

[George Severis]

Oh, you better believe it's a WhatsApp thread. And people are copying and pasting GIFs and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

[Sam Taggart]

Also, people were like fully tackling each other. 6:30 in the morning in soccer, where, by the way, you're not supposed to do that.

[George Severis]

And again, I'm asking, what are those people's sex lives like?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, of course there's a deep eroticism to it. Well, of course one guy knocked over another guy and then he was getting up and just grabbed his ass.

[George Severis]

Oh, you were jerking it in the corner. You're like, I'm glad I woke up early for this.

[Sam Taggart]

I was like, I don't have friends like this. Yeah, I was like, me and my friends don't grab each other's ass.

[George Severis]

Well, you know, this goes back to our mixed feelings sort of about hobbies more broadly, where yes, classically judge people who were like, why can't your hobby just be Binge drinking and hanging out with gay guys. Like, that's like what a serious adult would do. And so we're, like, laughing at it. Blah, blah. Oh, you take a pottery class, loser. But then, of course, we do crave it.

[Sam Taggart]

No, we crave it so bad.

[George Severis]

And sometimes when I'm like, in a table around all my friends and we're like, once again having the same conversation we've had 17 more times about someone we hate that lives in Los Angeles, I'm like, I wish I was in a flag football team just to switch.

[Sam Taggart]

It up for once. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Just like, for once in my fucking life. We're not gonna get any younger.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, literally, I was watching them. I was like, I don't even know if I could play that rough these days.

[George Severis]

No.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it would hurt my back.

[George Severis]

Which.

[Sam Taggart]

Is really pitiful to be like, if that happened to me, I'd be out. I'd be like, going to the hospital and I wouldn't get to grab ass. Well, so messed up.

[George Severis]

Should we bring in our guest? Jinx?

[Sam Taggart]

Got you.

[George Severis]

Jinx. Yo, Miyasoda. I learned that on Kim Possible and.

[Sam Taggart]

It never clicked for me.

[George Severis]

I know. I was like, why is she saying that?

[Sam Taggart]

I was like, drop it.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And also, was that a thing before Kim Possible?

[Sam Taggart]

I think it was. But not the owe you a soda thing was. It's regional. Depends on what?

[George Severis]

Oh, yeah, yeah. In the Midwest, they say, you owe me, pop.

[Sam Taggart]

Or it'd be like, jinx. Now you have to, like, be quiet for an hour or something.

[George Severis]

Yeah. What do you think? Excuse me.

[Leva Pierce]

Shh.

[George Severis]

What do you think? What do you think of, like, things like. Okay, there's a category of things like that. You know what else included? It's 11:11, make a wish. Things where, like, you want to sort of instill day to day life and coincidences with meaning. And I think I actually, where I come out, you would expect me to start this and say, and I think those people are stupid. I actually think it's fun.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, you did start this day by pointing at my coffee cup and where.

[George Severis]

It says George Severus. What is the cafe called? Let's shut them up.

[Sam Taggart]

It was like Grand Coffee, I think.

[George Severis]

Oh, no, it's George Severis, actually.

[Sam Taggart]

George Severis.

[George Severis]

Should we bring in our guest?

[Sam Taggart]

Yes, please do the honors.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God. I'm like, I'm actually so excited to have this guest on.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm so excited.

[George Severis]

This is kind of an og. This guest has, like a place in my household. There's a video this Guest did many years ago that my husband quotes all the time.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[George Severis]

And I told him yesterday, I said, you know who's on the podcast? Tomorrow, I'm gonna move to Boston with my cousin. And he said. He gasped. So please give it up for Leva Pierce.

[Leva Pierce]

Thank you.

[George Severis]

What is up?

[Leva Pierce]

I'm hoarse.

[George Severis]

I'm hoarse too. I don't know if you can tell.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, I'm hoarse because I feel like. Yeah.

[George Severis]

BoJack horse.

[Leva Pierce]

I haven't been talking at all. This is like, my first time talking all day.

[George Severis]

Well, it's pretty early.

[Leva Pierce]

It's really early. I like being wake up this early. Cause I work from home, so when I wake up this early, I go on the train and everyone. And it's a different fashion on the train.

[Sam Taggart]

You mean, like, it's work. Work clothes.

[George Severis]

Wait, you're so right.

[Sam Taggart]

It's work clothes. Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. Because usually I take the train in, like, the middle of the day with the rest of the losers.

[George Severis]

Yeah. The rest of the freelancers doing, like.

[Leva Pierce]

One, one, one errand. And everyone's in their sweatpants. When I go on the train in the morning, I'm like, admiring everyone's, like, looks, because everyone looks so good. Like, I'm like, seeing this, like, chic woman, totally bright, silk scarf. And then it's like all these guys. I was seeing a lot of, like, I feel like, like, baggy corduroys are in. And that was really cool to see.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, cool to see. Maggie.

[George Severis]

Corduroys are. Are very big for straight guys right now because it's like their way to rebel a little bit.

[Leva Pierce]

Yes.

[George Severis]

And it's like Todd Snyder, baggy, black, even corduroys.

[Leva Pierce]

Oh, wow. Yeah. Or dark brown. I was seeing a businessman who is like, typical businessman look, but then with corduroy. So I was kind of like, okay.

[George Severis]

He'S having fun today. Maybe he runs a progressive nonprofit.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

[Sam Taggart]

There's something about, I have to say, seeing business people walk around where it's like, there's so many of them, and yet I don't know anyone personally. So I'm sort of like, none of you are real.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm like, this is sort of.

[George Severis]

Well, they're interesting. You know what's interesting? It's the opposite of how people who, like, have normal lives and, you know, go to work every day feel when they go to a. They're like once a year comedy show, and they look around and they're like, this. This, like, seeing everyone around me be so pronouns is like my version. It's like this is. Oh, it's so fun to be in Brooklyn for one day. Everyone here has an asymmetrical haircut. Yeah, that's how we feel when we happen to be on the subway at 10am like, one day you're.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm literally like, where do you all get your clothes? Like, do they all go to the same place?

[George Severis]

Well, you know, this is the other thing. I find myself judging the people not wearing cool business clothes. And I'm like, who the fuck are you to judge? You're literally like, I look like shit every day. And I'm like, oh, my God, that guy's wearing like, pants with some stretch on them to work with a blazer.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, I judge a lot and I judge a lot fit. I judge fit a lot in terms of like, the fit of me too.

[George Severis]

I'm like, that's not rightly tailored.

[Leva Pierce]

It's a little tight. Like, the pants are a little short. Like, I get really. Because I think a lot about fit as lesbian. Obviously. It's everything to me. Of course, I live and die by it. But yeah, so I get. And then it's like, yeah, it is. Like, well, guess what? They have to wear that every day. Like, at a certain point, you can't wear your good fitting pants every day. You have to pull out your capris on Friday or whatever.

[George Severis]

So you're saying they do have good fitting pants, but they only have like one pair?

[Leva Pierce]

It's a charitable way of.

[George Severis]

Yeah, because I actually don't.

[Sam Taggart]

Look.

[George Severis]

I think that it's like, first of all, for a lot of these guys, their wives are buying the clothes.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, let's start there.

[George Severis]

And then I also think there is a sort of, you know, they have the story that they discovered when they were like 23, had their first job, and they're doing like five for one sale on Fridays in January. They're going, they're buying, they're saying, one olive color, one khaki color, one taupe, one navy blue, one kind of crazy, maybe a light blue for Friday is casual Fridays. And that is pretty much their repertoire for a full five years.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And then it's like, meanwhile, we're having elections. There is a vibe shift.

[Leva Pierce]

I'm like, what do you think they do with that free time that they don't have to ever go shopping for themselves?

[Sam Taggart]

You mean, like, what are they up to on Saturdays and Sundays?

[George Severis]

Yeah, soccer.

[Leva Pierce]

Soccer, Soccer. Hello?

[George Severis]

Have you been listening?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, they're running the big 5K.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. They're running a 5K every day.

[Sam Taggart]

Now tell. Okay, I actually would love. All I want at this point in my life is to run a 5k every Saturday. And yet.

[George Severis]

Why don't I know?

[Sam Taggart]

This is so stupid. For some reason, I'm like extra self conscious today.

[George Severis]

Why?

[Sam Taggart]

Of everything I say. There's something about this room that listeners.

[George Severis]

Oh, I actually love this room.

[Sam Taggart]

It's interesting. I feel like we're putting on a play. But yes, I know places. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, when will I have 5Ks that start at 11:00am?

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Why? Why?

[George Severis]

And take it one step further. When will they have nine to five jobs that start at 11am? Because then maybe I would apply.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God. I was eating a bagel this morning and it would seem like sort of either an aunt and niece relationship were eating next to me and she was like, oh, you don't have to be at work yet. And she's like, no, I get to work at 10. And the aunt goes kind of late. I was like, no, that's actually really normal.

[George Severis]

That aunt is like the time equivalent of someone being like, well, I had to take out student loans, so you. You young people should too.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. By the way, where's your job?

[George Severis]

Right.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. You're not 65 plus.

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah, the aunt's probably like married to some guy who's like running a military operation out of his basement.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, guess what?

[George Severis]

You sold it. Meanwhile, he's bombing countries we've never even heard of on a daily basis.

[Sam Taggart]

I guess. What?

[George Severis]

You. And you have the nerve judge your daughter because she works at like a, you know, creative agency that does artisanal.

[Sam Taggart]

Crackers that starts at 10:00am, please.

[Leva Pierce]

And she probably works till 7 or 8.

[George Severis]

And she's on email and slack through midnight.

[Leva Pierce]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God, the client has requests. I feel so bad for her.

[George Severis]

Me too.

[Sam Taggart]

And the aunt or mother was going to the moma, and guess what? She was complaining about it. I'm doxing them. I'm doxing them.

[George Severis]

Wait, what was she complaining about?

[Sam Taggart]

She was like, seeing everything.

[George Severis]

There's new exhibitions all the time.

[Sam Taggart]

What am I gonna learn? I've seen it all.

[George Severis]

Also, by the way, the MOMA is like one of the least interesting museums.

[Leva Pierce]

You can go to a different.

[George Severis]

Go to the Frick, idiot.

[Sam Taggart]

That's what the daughter or niece said.

[George Severis]

Go to the Frick. Okay, so she's literally. Okay, so the daughter is like a genius. She has amazing taste. She's working at a cool, progressive company and her aunt is coming down being like, I voted for Mitt Romney.

[Leva Pierce]

She should go to Mo. Me.

[George Severis]

Oh, the Museum of the Moving Image. Well, yeah. Yeah. She should take five trains.

[Sam Taggart]

Some sort of joke.

[George Severis]

She should take five trains to go to Astoria or Long Island City. Astoria so far. It's so far.

[Leva Pierce]

But that's why I feel like people are. People forget about it. Because it is like you have to go to outer space to get there. But it is. But I would say that if you go there, there's always something to do because there's screenings.

[George Severis]

Yeah, that's true. And then there's an exhibition. There's screenings, and then there's an exhibition. That's like two shirts that were in a Cassavetes.

[Sam Taggart]

No, that's really nice.

[George Severis]

They're behind a vitrine.

[Leva Pierce]

I'm sorry, but film history museums are the worst. Because it is like. It's like, I don't. Why are we putting these props up on the wall? Like, I don't care. It was more interesting in the film to see them move around. Like, this is like. It's so boring. And I just. I don't get, like. It's just like, oh, you wore this once Also. There's a big thing of, like, costumes. Like, costumes. That's cooler, though, because it's closed.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure.

[Leva Pierce]

Beautiful dress. But it's like, I. I've. I want to. What? It is just like, I touched this once. Like, now we're gonna do a retrospective. Like, that is really hard to, like, have fun in that space.

[George Severis]

Well, of course, we're both struggling because we recently had an experience where we absolutely gagged at a museum like that, which we'll tell you about in a second. But more broadly, I do completely agree with you. More broadly that it's like those. It actually goes back to. Was it Esther's topic that was museums with slides in them? Yeah, Esther's topic was sort of like Museum of Ice Cream. Like, things like that.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

It goes back to. It's like people that are afraid of fine art that still want to experience a museum.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

They're going to go ahead and go to a film exhibition, a fashion exhibition, because they're like, okay, I at least understand what a dress is.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, absolutely. I remember going to D.C. and I went to the Newseum a long time ago, and there was literally an exhibit on Anchorman.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm like, I need to go. I'm going. I'm going. We were in Las Vegas, and we were staying at a hotel, and just, you know, what we thought was a normal hotel? We're walking through the casino, and I am Hit with the image of Lady Gaga's lady in red outfit. And I'm like, what the hell is going on here? And it's in a glass case. I walk closer. It's an entire Lady Gaga museum in.

[George Severis]

This hotel house of Gaga Las Vegas.

[Sam Taggart]

And we were like, ha, ha ha. Let's walk around, like, joking, joking, joking. We're walking through, gagging.

[George Severis]

Sam had tears in his eyes.

[Sam Taggart]

We cannot stop being like, oh, my God. How do they have this?

[George Severis]

The blue telephone from the telephone video. The cigarette glasses from the telephone video.

[Sam Taggart]

The real meat dress.

[George Severis]

So this is. Get this. We see something that looks like the meat dress, but it's made of sort of, like, looks papery. We're like, oh, it's like a recreation of the meat dress. Fine, go home. Call on Wikipedia. They cured the meat dress, folks. It's the real meat dress, and it's cured.

[Leva Pierce]

I just put my hand on my.

[George Severis]

Mouth.

[Sam Taggart]

But that's crazy.

[Leva Pierce]

Did she have, like, a residency there? Like, what? Why did the hotel.

[George Severis]

For a second, it was the jazz.

[Sam Taggart]

The jazz and the Enigma.

[George Severis]

Oh, that's right. She had Enigma. But, yeah, this has been there for years. It's like, we thought that it was, like, a temporary, like, promoting something. This museum has been there since at least 2019. Because according to Wikipedia, that's when the cured meat dress made it there.

[Leva Pierce]

To me, that's a sign of, like, when you're so famous and you can't have oversight into, like, everything going on. Like, it's like, she probably said yes to that, like, seven years ago. It's like, she totally forgot the meat dress is there.

[George Severis]

Totally.

[Leva Pierce]

It's like, you have too many things to keep track of.

[George Severis]

Well, that's like her in house labs every month. Someone has to remind her, like, you run a pretty global makeup line.

[Leva Pierce]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

There was a point when I was trying to. There were four men walking in front of me in Vegas, and we were trying to figure out if they were gay or not. And because four men walking together in Vegas.

[George Severis]

Come on.

[Sam Taggart]

And they passed the Lady Gaga museum, and not one of them. Not one of them looked. Not one of them stopped and said, oh, my God.

[George Severis]

Not one of them said, boys, paws up.

[Sam Taggart]

Hold on. Do you mind if I check out this store really quick? Not one.

[Leva Pierce]

So, yeah. So there's your answer.

[Sam Taggart]

So there's the answer. But I still. I followed them for a little longer. Something wasn't right about them, and I was gonna get to the bottom of it.

[Leva Pierce]

You followed them, like, all the way home, Hitchcock style, and you're like serious.

[George Severis]

Have you been to Vegas?

[Leva Pierce]

Nope.

[George Severis]

Do you have any interest?

[Leva Pierce]

Nope.

[George Severis]

And we didn't either. But then you go there and suddenly there's a Lady Gaga museum in your hotel. And you're like, I guess I have to come here every year.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, this is again, sort of how business people aren't real. And then it's like the one hotel we happen to be in has a Lady Gaga museum. It's starting to feel, you know, you start to go a little crazy.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Because it's like, wait, wait, what's the.

[George Severis]

Connection between business people?

[Sam Taggart]

Because I'm like, wait, everything is just. I'm the only real person on earth.

[George Severis]

Oh, I see.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. No one else can see this.

[Sam Taggart]

Solipsistic.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ye. NPCs. And I'm.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, exactly.

[George Severis]

So what? So NPCs is such a fascinating thing.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Where did that come from?

[Leva Pierce]

It's video game.

[George Severis]

No, I, I mean, yes, but when did people start using it as like an insult in, in non video game space? No. Okay, sorry, nevermind.

[Leva Pierce]

I try. But I, I'll. But I come in with a crumb of knowledge.

[George Severis]

Totally.

[Leva Pierce]

I really.

[George Severis]

Because it's such a perfect insult. It's, it's actually such a perfect insult. And I think I learned it late and I don't want to say it because I seem so dated if I say it, but it is true that there are NPCs in the world.

[Sam Taggart]

And I want to say everything's relative. You know, your crumb could be a cookie size to us ants.

[George Severis]

Well, I sort of inherently trust you. I feel like you're like, no. Well, I remember when I first sort of became aware of you, I learned that you went to the University of Chicago. And I have an early memory of someone being like, the only university with smart people is the University of Chicago. And so now whenever I hear. I don't even remember who told me that, but whenever I hear that someone went to Utah, it's one of those things I'm like, oh. So they're like, it's like this creme de la creme.

[Sam Taggart]

Intellectually, it's like how I think Ricky Martin's the best singer in the world.

[Leva Pierce]

I really wanted to go to Northwestern to do. To major in television. And I was actually.

[George Severis]

Well, you do need a degree. You need a degree to work in television. A lot of people don't tell you that. It's a really academic TV degree.

[Leva Pierce]

They have like radio, tv, film. And I applied. This is so boring. But I applied early decision didn't get in. Sobbed.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

Taped my rejection letter in, like, a psychopathic way, like, to the ceiling of my bedroom and would, like, wake up and stare at it and be like, like. Like, I will make this fuel me.

[George Severis]

Okay, so this is why going to Momi for you is a really tough experience.

[Leva Pierce]

And my parents. My parents were really the ones. Because my parents are teachers, and they were. They were the ones who were like, you should. I didn't even. They were like, you really have to, like. And they were, like, obviously crazy about my application, blah, blah, blah. And so then I kind of. I kind of went there, not reluctantly, but. But then when I got there, I was like, I love you, dear.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

Got into it.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, that's good, at least.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Good job.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. But just to say I was trying. I was trying. I would stint to my. And to me, I was like, there's no one. Like, I'm like, julie Louis Dreyfus didn't go here. This school sucks.

[George Severis]

So I came with a really, like, dumb.

[Leva Pierce]

I came in.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure.

[Leva Pierce]

Like, not. You know what I mean?

[George Severis]

You guys.

[Sam Taggart]

You guys are all losers. None of are famous actors.

[Leva Pierce]

Exactly. Like, everyone was, like, extremely brilliant. Like, I don't know. They had all read, like. They'd all read, like Foucault in sixth grade. And I'm, like, coming in and I'm like, by the way, the theater scene is kind of lacking. Like, I was really trying to. And I had only cared about Chicago for, like, improv theaters. So I was. Again, I kept.

[George Severis]

Where are you from?

[Leva Pierce]

I'm from Maine.

[George Severis]

Really?

[Leva Pierce]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Interesting.

[Leva Pierce]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Now I've seen.

[Leva Pierce]

I almost did Maine as my topic.

[George Severis]

Well, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I mean, there's so much there. My favorite thing about Maine is being like, whereabouts. No, Nothing.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I love to be like, so where in Maine? You could say any word.

[Leva Pierce]

It's the big one. It's Portland.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. That one I got.

[George Severis]

I've had some nice times in Portland.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Airport.

[Leva Pierce]

Airport, yeah.

[George Severis]

Oh, that's one of the classic airports.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. Well, they have, like, a big, like. Or they. They used to have, like, kind of. They have, like, kind of whales and boats hanging and, like, moose, like, hanging from the sea. So it feels cozy, you know, when you get there.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

So why. So you're obsessed with improv.

[Leva Pierce]

I was obsessed with improv, and I'm sad to say it's because of Bossypants. I'm sorry. Really?

[George Severis]

I love Bossy Pants.

[Leva Pierce]

I read Boss. Bossypants was like. Like my stuffed animal.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

Like, I like. I really. It really came out at an impressionable age for me. And I read it, like, thousands of times for real. It's sickening. It's like, certain lines are still. Well, I always. My favorite part of Bossypants that everyone forgets is that she has a story where she yells at her lesbian friends and she says, get the dykes in the car. And that's in print. And you can go back, find your copy. Find your copy. Go to the Japanese.

[George Severis]

I mean, get the dykes in the car. That's merch.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, that's merch. She, like. She would say that.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, I'm sort of like, good for you for being honest, putting it in print.

[George Severis]

I agree.

[Leva Pierce]

I think it was the first time I read the word was in bossy.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God.

[Leva Pierce]

Like, I never. Like, no one had ever said that because Main is straight. Like, I didn't. I didn't really have. I didn't know anything.

[Sam Taggart]

What's complicated is, like, when you get into the rural northeast, it does become quite lesbian as well.

[Leva Pierce]

I know, but, like, no one says the word. Like, it's just kind of like. It's just kind of like, yeah, like, Pam is living in the woods. She's single. Like, she's clearly lesbian, but no one says the word.

[George Severis]

Correct me if I'm wrong. To me, I'm like, there are a lot of lesbians and even gay guys occasionally, but there isn't community. Am I wrong to say? Like, I don't think of Maine as, like, I'm sure there are a couple of gay bars, but I don't think of it as, like, oh, the whole group is getting together and they're all doing an activity. It is like couples living miles away from one another.

[Leva Pierce]

Yes.

[George Severis]

And sort of like, maybe cooking method.

[Leva Pierce]

George, it's my home. Yeah, sure. I'm. I feel like.

[George Severis]

Is that your experience, meth or what?

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I would say that. Yeah. Certainly there's people off in the woods, like, doing their own thing. They're kind of like, I'm the. Like, I am the leader of my own world over here.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

But I. I. Yeah, I do feel like there are lots of lesbians. But, yeah, I would never know because they blend in their, like, scenery. Like, it took me a long. Like, now when I go home, I feel like I'm, like, hyper aware and.

[George Severis]

I totally, like, get the dikes in the car.

[Leva Pierce]

Like, get the dikes in the car. But I would love to see. I think it would be amazing if you could, like, like, in Animals before an Earthquake. If you could, like, do some sort of, like, sound or call or alarm that only lesbians could hear, and you could, like, just stand in a field and, like, all these lesbians would come.

[George Severis]

Out of the woods, wouldn't that be great?

[Leva Pierce]

And then they could find.

[George Severis]

And then you wouldn't need, like, targeted advertising on Instagram that you pay $50 a day for, for no reason. Doesn't do anything.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, but, yeah, I would love to. Like, I feel like it's sad because I wish. I wish I knew more lesbians when I was a kid. And I'm like, I would love to find them, but they are so deep.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, they're far in there.

[Leva Pierce]

In. On their properties, like, down, you know, sandy beach, roads, whatever. But it's like, you can't. They're not going to be out in the light of day. Like, they might go grocery shopping in the morning, but then they're, like, home the rest of the day, cooking with the dogs.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, I do feel when I go to Misha's parents upstate, he lives very far, upstate New York. And there's this dive bar we go to, and there's always a surprising amount of lesbians there in a way where I'm like, wait, what? Like, I'm sort of like. I'm like, wait, everyone, like, you guys all chill here. This is crazy.

[Leva Pierce]

That's cool.

[George Severis]

Wait, what? What is crazy about.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I'm just like, maybe. Maybe you need to, like, find the local bar that people go to that the lesbians.

[George Severis]

Oh, yeah, they're there. Yeah. Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

More of them now. There's this one, like, really awesome leather bar in Portland that has, like, the oldest leather gaze ever, but I've never seen a lesbian there. It's really, like. It's really, like, 60 plus guys.

[George Severis]

Sure.

[Leva Pierce]

Full, like.

[Sam Taggart]

What's that one called?

[Leva Pierce]

Horns? Like leather.

[George Severis]

Emma's writing it down.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm wondering if I've already been.

[Leva Pierce]

It's like. It's, like, the only one.

[Sam Taggart]

I think I've been.

[Leva Pierce]

You've probably been. I'm actually forgetting it's across. Whatever. It's in Longfellow Square.

[George Severis]

Sure, sure.

[Leva Pierce]

Well, stunned. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't know. That's my amazing take.

[George Severis]

Should we do our first segment?

[Sam Taggart]

I think we should.

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[Leva Pierce]

Then the space hamster flew his hot air balloon all the way to the bottom of the ocean.

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[Sam Taggart]

So basically our first segment is called Straight Shooters and in this segment we're going to ask you a series of rapid fire questions to gauge your familiarity with and complicity in straight culture. It's basically this thing or this other thing and the only rule is you can't ask any follow up questions or we'll scream so loud at you you're going to want to move to the damn woods. Okay, ready?

[Leva Pierce]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Tate McRae or Tate Modern?

[Leva Pierce]

Tate Modern.

[George Severis]

Very relevant to our conversation.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Call your girlfriend or I love Garfield Call your girlfriend.

[Sam Taggart]

Income inequality or findom sexuality?

[George Severis]

Findom sexuality the boy is mine or yeah, tap is fine.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Life expectancy or Wife respect me please.

[Leva Pierce]

Wife respect me please.

[George Severis]

Affordable housing or no thank you, just browsing.

[Leva Pierce]

No thank you, just browsing.

[Sam Taggart]

A missed opportunity or pissed off at you and me.

[Leva Pierce]

Missed opportunity.

[George Severis]

Oh, lacking media literacy or backing the Confederacy.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, God.

[Leva Pierce]

Well, lacking media literacy.

[George Severis]

Oh, Interesting. Huh?

[Sam Taggart]

Huh?

[George Severis]

Now this is interesting. You know, after our House of Gaga Las Vegas visit, I feel even more compelled to rank someone's performance on a scale of 0 to 1000.

[Sam Taggart]

Now more than ever.

[George Severis]

Now more than ever. It is important to numerically. And I just want to say we've been accused of giving people too high scores recently.

[Sam Taggart]

Have we?

[George Severis]

Yeah. I don't think this is the time to go low because I think that was a perfectly lovely performance.

[Sam Taggart]

That would be very reactionary.

[George Severis]

That would be very reactionary. Yes, exactly. I even think we should do anti reactionary and go even higher than we normally would.

[Sam Taggart]

I think. A thousand doves.

[George Severis]

A thousand doves. Wow, that's huge for you.

[Leva Pierce]

That's really huge. Yeah, I try to come and relaxed.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, I could feel that.

[George Severis]

No, you are very relaxed.

[Leva Pierce]

Thank you.

[George Severis]

Is that something you cultivate?

[Leva Pierce]

I don't know, I just. I don't know how to be relaxed. How I got this way.

[Sam Taggart]

But I think, can I propose maybe you were born.

[George Severis]

No. You weren't born.

[Leva Pierce]

Yes. You know what is so awesome? That, I mean, this is something many people have said before, but it's just like, it's like she's straight.

[George Severis]

No, totally. No, it's honestly amazing. Not only is she straight, but she. She is the most half hearted. Like one time said she was bi and then I was like, you guys.

[Sam Taggart]

Are doing bi erasure.

[George Severis]

No, she is fully a straight woman who went to nyu.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, she's so straight. She's so straight. And like she is down for learning about everyone else, but she's not. She's not. At the end of the day, like, she wants a man at home.

[George Severis]

Well, not just that, but I would arg again, I'm a huge fan. You know, I would love for her to come on the pod. I would argue when she made Born this Way, that type of language was already outdated. Like a cool girl that went to NYU during that time would not do born this way language.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, that's the thing about it, George. It was Christ. Like she was sacrificing her coolness to be so lame for us.

[George Severis]

No, she was very much like. She's like, I've seen what cool is. This one's for Wisconsin. Wisconsin.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Like I remember even at the time, I mean, obviously I'm a little bit older than you, but at the time I was in college and I was like very involved in the sort of LGBTQ+ activism scene and we were all very much. The whole thing was being like, the born this way narrative is conservative. It's like trying to prove you're worthy by saying, oh, I can't help it. Like, in fact, it's much more liberating and empowering to be like. Anyone can self determine whichever way they see fit, whether it's gender, sexuality, or whatever.

[Leva Pierce]

And by the way, I don't. I don't know. I. When I went to school, the same conversations were happening about born this way. So, like, they're still working it out.

[Sam Taggart]

That's what college is for.

[Leva Pierce]

I, like, literally would be like, born this way discourse first.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I guess it's probably still happening because I think now it's just. I feel like then it was happening for gay and now it's happening for trans.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. Because like, born this way was like, that was a phrase that was like, that she just picked up on. Like, she just kind of absorbed that from.

[Sam Taggart]

She was like walking TJ Maxx. Wait, I love.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

Wait, I actually have a question. Literally, I now can't remember the phrase born this way pre Gaga. What was the status of that? Is that something people would say? Was it like a catchphrase?

[Sam Taggart]

I think it started with Neanderthals.

[George Severis]

No, no, no.

[Leva Pierce]

I think it started in the roaring twenties. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Why are you dancing like that, sugar?

[George Severis]

But were people going around being like, I was born this way, or did she invent that?

[Sam Taggart]

No. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Am I being crazy?

[Sam Taggart]

Al Capone invented that.

[George Severis]

You guys are being so rude.

[Leva Pierce]

It's like, I wish I knew.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I wish.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't know. When it was said for the first time, I don't think people were saying, I'm sorry, Sam.

[Leva Pierce]

I don't know.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't know. Oh, my God. I didn't know I was gonna get quizzed today.

[George Severis]

I also love that in the lyrics, it's, I was born this way.

[Leva Pierce]

She's playing a gay character.

[George Severis]

Yeah, she's playing a gay character in this song.

[Leva Pierce]

So that we can, you know, similar to. You go to the theater, you see someone doing a role so that you can experience catharsis.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Like the cats and Cats. She's doing kabuki theaters. She's like the cats. In the chat.

[Leva Pierce]

We are able to feel our darkest thoughts.

[George Severis]

Totally. Yeah. Our darkest thoughts, which are. I was born this way.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

Oh, I was born this way. Oh, no.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, it's always been my favorite. My favorite thing with her, of course, is being like, I'm such a fucked up weirdo loser like you guys.

[George Severis]

Right?

[Sam Taggart]

It's like, hey, stop that. Don't say that about me.

[George Severis]

No, completely.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm such a fucking loser pervert freak with no friends.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And the audience is like gay teens with their moms.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Okay, cool.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, sorry to bring up Vegas.

[George Severis]

This is just like Studio 54.

[Sam Taggart]

Sorry to bring up Vegas one more time. But like, like, Gaga is one thing. We went to see lord.

[George Severis]

Oh, yeah. We saw lord in Vegas.

[Sam Taggart]

We saw lord in Vegas, which was to die for.

[George Severis]

Do you like lord?

[Leva Pierce]

I've never seen her alive.

[George Severis]

Do you care about lord?

[Leva Pierce]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

You should see, because she's to die for them.

[Leva Pierce]

Let's talk about it.

[Sam Taggart]

Let's talk about it. Well. Well, mostly the thing I wanted to say is there was a point where lorde is like, duct tape this. I mean, the duct tape.

[George Severis]

But just when the they them duct tape is on.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm sorry.

[George Severis]

The they them duct tape stays on during sex.

[Leva Pierce]

No, I just love how celebrities are like. I'm not saying non binary. It's weird. They're like, non binary is gross weird and a bad word.

[George Severis]

Do you know what's interesting? It's not. I think it's. It's specifically the words. It's specifically the word non binary. And the words they them are quote, unquote, out of style.

[Leva Pierce]

Well, they're. They are like. They are terrible. It's like, it's.

[George Severis]

It sucks that that's what we know it, obviously. But then. And it has not changed the identity. The identity still exists. And all those people that are being like they them is lame. Still believe it. They're just like, oh, God. Can we come up with a new one?

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

It's like, I just want to say I'm they them. And I literally wish I had a cool word.

[George Severis]

Can I add you something? Speaking of things that were trendy in college, when you were in college, did. Was there any inkling left of ghost as a pronoun? Like, oh, z H E. That was one of the first when I was in college and people were still figuring out. Yes. Figuring out they them. And they hadn't landed on they them. Another option was g. Sure.

[Leva Pierce]

Yes. I mean, I hear. I obviously, it's like, I hear that I feel like I've read about people who are. I've never in my life.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

The story never met. Never met Azizier.

[Leva Pierce]

No.

[George Severis]

Yeah, me neither.

[Leva Pierce]

I think what was more in Was just like she they he. Like, that was what was like. People would just be like, oh, oh. And that was more just like. So I feel like people had Dropped gir as much. Or there's this, like, faith.

[George Severis]

Faith.

[Sam Taggart]

I've never heard that.

[Leva Pierce]

No, no, like faith. I'm sorry.

[George Severis]

I said faith. And then you're like, no, no, faith.

[Leva Pierce]

No, that's what I said. Not faith. Faye. F A Y E. Yes.

[George Severis]

Oh, like Faye Dunaway. Yes. Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Non binary legend.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, she is to me. Well, she has the masculine in her. She does. Sorry.

[Sam Taggart]

Some days she's a woman, some days she's a man.

[George Severis]

Yeah, Just like lord.

[Leva Pierce]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Sam Taggart]

But Lorde did this thing I wanted to say where she was like, tonight is for the freaks.

[George Severis]

Oh, yeah. And it was like, it wasn't for the freaks.

[Sam Taggart]

This is so normal.

[Leva Pierce]

I always think about that Chris Fleming joke. That's like. St. Vincent thinks that she's weird, but she's actually, like, her whole. Her whole, like, weirdness is, like, carefully vetted by, like, NYU grads, and there's no real risk.

[George Severis]

Yeah, quite the. I could. No, no.

[Leva Pierce]

Sorry, Chris. I'm sorry. But it's really. I always. It's a great joke.

[George Severis]

St. Vincent is one of the most, like, fascinating figures, culturally speaking. And also kind of in my personal life, I feel like my. You can track my thoughts on her. My thoughts on her map directly to, like, my evolution as a person. You know what I mean?

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Sam Taggart]

It's sort of like your.

[Leva Pierce]

Your political awakening.

[George Severis]

There was just. And I just want to say, like, I still. I actually recently saw her sort of randomly because she opened for someone else. I saw. But I. I saw her a bunch of times when I was younger. I usually think she was, like, the coolest person. And then there was one day where I truly woke up, and it's like. It hit me. I was like, she's a complete fraud. And I, like, haven't been. And I don't actually think that. I think she's obviously very talented, but, like, I haven't been able to unsee that opinion.

[Sam Taggart]

I think you and a lot of people.

[George Severis]

Yeah, like. And I think a lot of people. Did you go through that with her?

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, I mean, I wasn't. Yeah. I feel like I came to her later, and I was. I mean, New York is in New York without you. Love, obviously fake when you're sad.

[George Severis]

Totally. But to me, that was.

[Sam Taggart]

Honestly.

[George Severis]

But to me, that was the turning point.

[Sam Taggart]

That was the beginning of the universe.

[Leva Pierce]

Did you think that song was, like, cringe?

[Sam Taggart]

Yes, a little.

[Leva Pierce]

You did?

[George Severis]

Yeah, I was like. I was like, what the hell?

[Sam Taggart]

Like, I like that song, but it was.

[George Severis]

And the references are, like, tourist attractions it was like, we're going to, like, the NYU building up on Aster. Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, I. I liked her. Like. Like her EDM moment.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Whim Sound Advertiser]

Or not.

[Leva Pierce]

I guess it's. It's not edm.

[George Severis]

Mass seduction. Yeah, yeah, yeah, me too. I. I went to that tour. It was great.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was like the last. I feel like. Like. Like fun.

[George Severis]

Totally. I agree. That was.

[Leva Pierce]

And now, like, it's like, this stuff with her. She's like, can't stop talking about how her dad's rich and. And. But he's in jail or something.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Well, I do think I get what she was doing with that. Sorry.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm looking at you like you're making it up.

[George Severis]

I'm, like, believing this.

[Sam Taggart]

I haven't heard about this at all.

[George Severis]

Her dad was in jail for white color crime and then got out of jail, and that's why the album was called Daddy's Home.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh.

[George Severis]

But then she was also like, it's not funny. But also, Daddy's Home was also being a little. Faye done away.

[Sam Taggart]

I thought she was being lured.

[George Severis]

Wink, wink. I'm microdosing. They. Them.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I thought she was being Lord.

[Leva Pierce]

What's up with Lorde's parent stuff? Because it's like. And this. It's like. It's like she's. Her dad's intense, but her mom has trauma.

[George Severis]

Her mom, like, was a.

[Sam Taggart]

Can I make it any more obvious?

[George Severis]

Her mom. You told me this. Her mom's a poet.

[Leva Pierce]

Her mom's okay, but it's like, in.

[George Severis]

New Zealand, everyone's kind of a poet.

[Leva Pierce]

I like the line, my mama's trauma.

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Leva Pierce]

What ifs? My mama's drum. That was really good.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, no, that was really good.

[Leva Pierce]

I wonder what happened to her mom, but I know I'm not supposed to ask.

[George Severis]

Yeah, that would be rude. You meet Lorde, you're like, don't ask what happened to her mom. Don't ask what happened to her mom. Don't ask what happened to mom.

[Leva Pierce]

It's so hard when these artists are, like, singing so much and being vague, and you're just like, oh, I know.

[George Severis]

You're kind of like, let's. Where is the spark notes?

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, literally, that's what, like, genius is supposed to be.

[Whim Sound Advertiser]

I know.

[George Severis]

That's supposed to be able to sit.

[Sam Taggart]

On the lyric and be like, her mom was yelled at by a guy.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

In 1982, she was walking down the street and a guy yelled outside of the car.

[Leva Pierce]

What if her mom was also. What if someone yelled at her mom? You Walk like a bitch.

[George Severis]

And that's the mama's trauma.

[Sam Taggart]

That's the curse of her family. Everyone in that family walks like a bitch.

[George Severis]

Do you think walking like a bitch is learned or is a born this way behavior and follow up question, and I want you to answer both. Which narrative would be more liberating to you if walking like a bitch was innate or if you were able to.

[Leva Pierce]

Choose a. I think. I think if it's learned, it's more liberating.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay.

[George Severis]

And because.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, it's like. It's like what, you're gonna argue and you're gonna say that.

[Sam Taggart]

Is it learned?

[George Severis]

Yeah, but is it learned?

[Sam Taggart]

If it's learned, it's liberating. But is it learned?

[Leva Pierce]

I think when you're. This is my theory on being gay. I can't wait to say.

[George Severis]

Great, Great. Here they go.

[Sam Taggart]

Turn the volume up, folks.

[George Severis]

I think it's my message. Four words for Trump. Turn the vol. He ate with that. Okay, go ahead.

[Sam Taggart]

He kind of did eat with that, though.

[George Severis]

That was kind of crazy.

[Sam Taggart]

No, that was cool.

[Leva Pierce]

This next message is to Donald J. Trump. I think. Here's what I think. When you're a baby, you look at people and you're like, that person's cool. And from the day you're a baby, you want to be like them.

[George Severis]

Oh, so you think your influences are subconscious from when you're a child? It's like a cool uncle, cool aunt, like someone who's off the straw.

[Leva Pierce]

Because it's undeniable that. I feel like it's undeniable that gay guys only look at women as babies. I feel like.

[George Severis]

Sorry. You know what's crazy?

[Sam Taggart]

Here's the thing.

[George Severis]

Literally, when I was a baby, my dad. I have goosebumps for like, for like a year or two when I was a baby. Had a job in a different country and I didn't see him as much. And I actually think.

[Sam Taggart]

And George is gay now and I'm gonna.

[George Severis]

And I. I love my dad and we have a good relationship, but there's. There's like a slight distance that is from that time. And it's not his fault. And he was. What?

[Leva Pierce]

I rest my case.

[George Severis]

No. Yeah. How about you?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, you know, this gets really complicated because obviously my mother and father were both in the picture an equal amount. But get this. I had a sister.

[George Severis]

I had a sister, and he had an older sister.

[Sam Taggart]

An older sister.

[Leva Pierce]

Actually, this theory mostly applies to gay guys. I don't know how lesbians.

[George Severis]

I mean, I was also, like, on top of that, partly raised by both my grandmothers. I mean, it was matriarchy boots. Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. So what's your figure out where lesbians fit?

[George Severis]

There's just men everywhere. Are you okay?

[Leva Pierce]

I know, I know. For me, I'm like, I don't know. For me, I can say I was like, read. I was. I love GQ early on. Yeah.

[George Severis]

As a baby, I love gq.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Reading Details magazine while potty training.

[Leva Pierce]

Yes. Like, I remember going to visit my grandparents when I was, like, probably like six or seven and being at the airport. And my mom is like, you can pick one magazine when we go visit grandparents. And I would pick GQ and just like, look at the watches, look at the blazers.

[Sam Taggart]

Interesting.

[Leva Pierce]

And that. And then it became a thing where, like, every time I traveled, I bought a gq.

[Sam Taggart]

That's so interesting.

[George Severis]

That is so amazing. So little menswear influencer.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. And mine was that I was obsessed with mermaids because I like the way their hair moved.

[George Severis]

Totally.

[Leva Pierce]

So GQ was my mermaids. And for me, my mermaid was like, blazer with hoodie. From what I was thinking. I want to wear that so bad.

[Sam Taggart]

Blazer with the hoodie really did make a splash for a while. Across all spectrums.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Well. And it reached its peak during the sort of Justin Bieber era.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, wow.

[Leva Pierce]

Oh, my God. Yeah. He would wear like a. He would wear like, a tuxedo jacket. Like, it was crazy what he was doing.

[George Severis]

When I think of Justin, I understand that Justin Bieber has become a huge star and is an adult and is like, I'm glad you understand. And is obviously, like, someone that. At the level of, like, whatever, Drake or someone else, that's like a big male pop star. But the early Bieber imagery is so strong to me that when I think of Justin Bieber, I think of a little kid with a hair soup. I have not. Whereas, like, when I think of Demi Lovato, I think of Demi Lovato. Today, I don't think of a Disney star, but I have not updated my opinions on Justin Bieber. And it's now been, like, 20 years.

[Sam Taggart]

I think it's the name.

[George Severis]

I still think of him as a child.

[Sam Taggart]

I think it's the name, like, literally the sound.

[Leva Pierce]

Bieber.

[George Severis]

You're so right.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, if he were like, I'm just Justin.

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Then I'd be like, okay, you're a different guy now, Justin.

[Leva Pierce]

You guys believe that thing? That's like. That's like, you're. The age you get famous is the age you're. Is the age you Stop aging.

[Sam Taggart]

I love.

[George Severis]

This is the part from the problem. The problem with Taylor Swift.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Because you do believe it.

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Leva Pierce]

You believe. Yeah. It's like you stop kind of like.

[George Severis]

And you're. And it's just like your gender stops when you are around men or women, when you're a child, and then your age stops when you become famous.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

But I do basically believe it.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. That's why I'm like. I'm like. I think it would be good to. I think it's cool to get famous at, like, 50 completely.

[Sam Taggart]

It's really cool.

[Leva Pierce]

It's really cool to, like, have. Like. There are certain actresses where it's like, they did not. They were just. They were just literally trying for years, and then they had their first big starring role on Broadway at 50.

[George Severis]

I mean, Olivia Colman.

[Sam Taggart]

I've never heard of these actresses.

[George Severis]

Think about Olivia Colman.

[Sam Taggart]

I've never heard about that.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. Olivia Colman is one.

[George Severis]

Like, she was consistently working, but she wasn't. You wouldn't have known the name Olivia Colman 10 years ago.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. But I will say the comparison to that does scare me because it's like, well, not consistently working. Like, the idea of being like. The idea of being like.

[George Severis]

I didn't realize we were talking about you.

[Sam Taggart]

Of course we're talking about ourselves. Of course we're talking about ourselves. Are we not pursuing comedy? But I'm always like. Like, it's fun to look at those people who are, like, big stars and be like, they barely had anything. Just consistent TV work forever. Just not a big starring role. I'm like, well, I'm behind on that.

[Leva Pierce]

Then sometimes I feel like people who aren't, like. Who aren't trying to be famous and who aren't sick will ask me, like. And it is so. It is, like, one of the most, like, humiliating, like, experiences when, like, someone who has. Who is just like. Like a teacher, like, they're. They're work. Or they're, like, working. Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Say another profession. I want to go.

[Leva Pierce]

They're working on a farm.

[Sam Taggart]

Grow up.

[Leva Pierce]

I'm like, thinking, what My friends. Do you have farmer friends? Yes. In Maine. Yeah. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, Maine. Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

One of my friends was just managing a farm for the summer. That was her job.

[George Severis]

See, that could be Maine, but it could also be like, you, Chicago Queerdo.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it could.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I feel like it's. It's like. Like, people will be like, oh, do you want to be famous? Like, have you ever been asked that?

[Sam Taggart]

No.

[Leva Pierce]

No.

[Sam Taggart]

Not one time, but I Feel like I'm being normal. You guys get asked that all the time?

[George Severis]

No, no, all the time. But it's something that, like.

[Leva Pierce]

Because I feel like people who don't want fame are like, why do you want that? Or like, they're like. They're like, so. They're like. In their head, they're like, oh, you're doing shows. You want to be famous? And then it is like. It's so embarrassing because it's like, you said the quiet part out loud.

[George Severis]

Well, it's like, when people are like, I could never. People often will say, like, stand up to me is the single hardest thing I can think of. Like, the idea of, like, being on a stage alone and talking. It's like I. People will be like, I can imagine myself, like, being an actor or being whatever, but stand up is, like, the hardest thing. And even people in the arts, like, people who are, like, successful actors or directors or something, will be like, that's the one thing I could never do. And you're like, so you need to flip that. It's not that it's a challenging thing that I stepped up to the plate to do. It's that I am so ill. It is the only outlet that can, like, kind of, like, calm down the inner thoughts.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. It's like, you don't understand from me. This. It's born this way.

[George Severis]

It's born this way. No, the idea that I would ever. The idea that I would ever aspire to it and. And. But. But not naturally be drawn to it and be like, okay, like, you have to sit down, write your material, and get your stage time. It's like, that is not how this works, sweetheart.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Should we do our topic?

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sam Taggart]

What is your straight topic today? And what's straight about it?

[Leva Pierce]

Okay, so my topic is sympathy. Beautiful. For me, what this is. Is, to me, I feel like I see this a lot in, like, okay, if you're in. If you're going to your friends for advice, you have an issue. Maybe it's a dating issue. Maybe it's a personal issue, family, whatever. It's like, to me, the first reaction from straight people if you bring them any kind of negativity is just, like, sympathy. Which, to me is like. Actually, they just. It's. It's like the shallowest way of engaging with negativity. And meanwhile, I feel like if I bring an issue to my gay friends, it's like they're criticizing me. They're able to immediately dive in, you know? What I mean, it's kind of like keeping that suffering at a distance almost. And gay people are more like, well, here's what I think and here's how I relate. And here's, and here's. And I want to talk about. And it's like beyond empathy. It's also kind of self involved.

[George Severis]

Well, gay people start performing.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, Gay people start performing, but I think there's more of like a relishing in. And straight people are more like, oh, that's sad.

[Sam Taggart]

It's like dealing with the sick. Yeah. Yes. People are like, I'm not afraid to get sick. And straight people are like, I have work.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Literally.

[Sam Taggart]

Please don't give me that.

[George Severis]

Well, gay people, it's like they're on an improv show and your thing is a prompt. You're like, I'm going through a breakup. Like breakup guys. Got it. I was going through a breakup once. And then they go into a story. Do you feel like I want to get into sort of examples of phrases that are relevant to this? Like, I'm here if you need anything. Like the most empty promise. That is a very straight thing to me. Or like, yes. Or even, not to say the obvious, but even something as simple as like, you're in my thoughts.

[Sam Taggart]

I was about to say thinking of you.

[George Severis]

Thinking of you. Thoughts and prayers. Praying for you.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

So just the most passive. It's just literally being like, here's a bow and putting it on your wound.

[Leva Pierce]

To me it's like when Notre Dame burned and then all straight people are posting a picture. Pray for Paris. Or just like to me it's like Instagram graphic of sad thing. Heart.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

Card emoji and then nothing else.

[George Severis]

So basically sympathy is like on a person to person level, reacting with a bumper sticker. Someone tells you their trauma and then you give them a pre written greeting card and you're like, hope this helps.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, yeah. And yeah, you're literally using like canned phrases. Like you're using stock phrases. It's like an inability to like, actually to me a big thing with straight people is like, they do not want to live in reality. Like, like, to me, they are even more delusional in subways because to them, like they are not questioning. Like, it's just like, this is how it is. This is how it is. And I feel like this way where, I mean, I, I, I mean I feel like my friends are like, I don't want to come to you if I have relationship problems because you're gonna, you're gonna have Opinions. And I'm like, of course. I. I feel like I see my straight girl friends in their straight relationships and it is some of the scariest stories I've ever heard.

[George Severis]

No, it's more. It's full horror show. It's Candyman years.

[Leva Pierce]

It's years of. And it's like they come to me. Everyone else is like, the other straight people are giving advice. That's like, I'm so sorry, babe. Like, I'm here, like, just like, text me. I'm around, whatever. And that's. I'm like, we need to do mutual aid. Like, we need, we need, we need. You need to move out. Like, we need to. Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like I'm more like, let's look at the reality. This is untenable. And straight people are like, no, it's how it is. I gotta go.

[Sam Taggart]

I have a theory. I have a theory. I want to propose.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I could be wrong, of course. Do you think that. So straight people are bad at, like, hearing. Dealing with bad news in a real way? I think gay people are bad at dealing with good news in a real way.

[Leva Pierce]

Oh, yes. Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, if you're like, if you're like, I got a job. They're like, amazing. Back to me, like, yeah. Like, they cannot hear good news.

[George Severis]

This is honestly how I felt when Zuron was elected. I was like, you guys need to relax.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

Meanwhile, like, I voted for him.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Like, it's good news.

[George Severis]

But I'm like, I'm like, everyone needs to shut up. This is embarrassing.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

I always feel like it. Killjoy. My family, my parents are like, oh, like, I'm excited about this. I'm like, well, actually, here's the reality. We're gonna have to keep them accountable. You know what I mean? I think it is like, of course, it's one of those things where it's like, gay people are better at dealing with bad news for good and bad reasons. Like, it's like some of it is like, oh, wow, we've like, learned. And we're. And we're, we're. We're. We're more like grounded in some ways. And then in some ways it is like, we're also self involved.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, we're extremely addicted to, like, saving.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, while it's doing well, it's like, well, I don't want to be around that.

[George Severis]

I also feel it's a very straight mentality to believe the default is good. And so therefore, when something bad happens, it sort of is a shock. To the system. Whereas I think it is a very gay thing to kind of assume things are bad. Right. And not trust the good when it does happen.

[Sam Taggart]

Right. When someone's telling me good news, I'm like, so what are you lying about? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

And I also think. I think we talked about this before, but, like, there is a. I think gay people think bad is inherently more interesting than good. It's kind of like that's sort of the.

[Leva Pierce]

If we hear that, we hear dollar signs.

[George Severis]

Yes. Well, it's also the.

[Sam Taggart]

I think we can sell this.

[Washington Post Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I think we can package this. I think we can sell, like, they're.

[George Severis]

More drawn to critique than to praise. They're very, like, it's very straight to be like, let people enjoy things. It's very gay to be like, we should murder the creator of this television series.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, question for the group. So when it comes to sympathy versus empathy, what's going on?

[George Severis]

I know this is one of those things that I've never quite understood.

[Sam Taggart]

I've never understood right now. I just think it literally feels like empathy is just, like, in vogue. Like, it's like, more in vogue.

[George Severis]

Yeah, but it's been. But it's been in vogue. Don't you think empathy is constantly having a moment? Yeah, it's been literally decades of people being like, it's about empathy.

[Leva Pierce]

I remember millions of millions of dollars have gone.

[George Severis]

Millions. Well, legitimately, though, because it's a billion dollar industry, it is fully a buzzword for products. Like, I remember when I was in grad school, there was like, this other sort of, like, team within the department that was doing documentary film stuff. And the trendy thing at the time was interactive documentary and also VR documentary. And the biggest buzzword was empathy. They were like, we're making a VR documentary about what it's like to be blind. And so you like it, like, messes with your sense or whatever. And that creates empathy for blind people. I was like, actually, what it does is it creates a line at the Tribeca Film Festival interactive booth where people are putting on a VR headset and then they're, like, taking a picture with it.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I guess, like, people are always like, sympathies. Like, you feel bad and empathy is like, you feel bad and you can imagine.

[Sam Taggart]

You, like, really feel bad.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, you feel bad and you can use I statements.

[George Severis]

Empathy is like, you have multiple personality disorder, and you're actually completely disassociating because someone told you that they are sad.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Sympathy is like, you're making me Sad by being sad. Stop. And empathy is like, whoa, you are sad about that. I am sad about that.

[George Severis]

Is maybe. Is the difference. Like, yeah, is the difference. The sympathy is almost like, condescending. It's almost like you're in a. Someone tells you, I'm going through a breakup, you're being like, oh, sweetie, you're inherently in a position of power, and you're almost like, wow, you're suddenly my child that I'm taking care of. Whereas empathy is like, okay, I'm feeling it with you. Like, let's move through it together.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. I think. I think empathy is more gay because it is like a going back. We're like, oh, weigh in for me. Like, and I do think I do this all the time, and I have to. And I have to curb myself where, like, someone will be talking about, like, a breakup or something. And I'm totally. So here's my history, start to finish. I'll go through beat by beat, and then it's like I completely forget what the other person's even talking about. Like, I get so deep down memory lane in the middle, I'm suddenly like, wait, is this helping? Like, it's.

[Sam Taggart]

You're, like, going through intergenerational trauma. You're like, I'm in a war. I'm in a war.

[George Severis]

My mama's trauma.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Sympathy is a Broadway show. Empathy is Sleep no more. Whoa.

[George Severis]

Sympathy is Hamilton. And empathy is Sleep no More.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

Whoa.

[Sam Taggart]

One isn't better than the other. It's just, you know, one you're in, one you're watching.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

If you had to watch one of those every single night for the rest of your life, which would you choose?

[Leva Pierce]

Sleep no More or. Well, I mean.

[George Severis]

Or Hamilton.

[Leva Pierce]

You can't rest in Sleep no More.

[Sam Taggart]

You get to walk around. You can watch a different show every night. I think I've never seen.

[Leva Pierce]

It has to be Hamilton or it's like any. Oh, it has to.

[George Severis]

Well, because I think those two are sort of emblemat. Those. Those are both kind of like Obama era tent poles.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. I think Sleep no More because, you know, I mean, allegedly are supposed to be able to see different things.

[George Severis]

Yeah, allegedly.

[Leva Pierce]

And there's, like, different things around every corner.

[Sam Taggart]

Plus you get grabbed.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Could be kind of fun.

[George Severis]

And you're. And there's like, hot dancers.

[Leva Pierce]

There's a really good episode of Law and Order SVU that takes place at a fake sleep.

[George Severis]

No.

[Leva Pierce]

Someone, like, everyone's watching and an assault happens, and everyone thinks it's part of the performance.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God, that's awful.

[Leva Pierce]

It's actually so dark. But it's an amazing episode.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God. There's also a really great girls episode about an interactive play.

[Leva Pierce]

Oh, Abs, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, it's really good. Never got sold.

[George Severis]

What? What?

[Sam Taggart]

What?

[George Severis]

Oh. Never gets old.

[Leva Pierce]

Never gets old.

[George Severis]

Never got sold.

[Sam Taggart]

Me too. I'm like, we are really miscreing you in crazy ways.

[Leva Pierce]

No, sor. Getting shy.

[Sam Taggart]

No, it's us.

[Leva Pierce]

It's us.

[George Severis]

So what do you think about Sympathy being a knife? Oh, it needed to come up.

[Leva Pierce]

It needed to come up. Well, yeah, I think it is. I think. Of course.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I agree.

[Leva Pierce]

It is a knife.

[George Severis]

I think it's very perceptive that it's a knife. And I actually think if that song is about Taylor Swift, I think Charlie's like, sympathy is a knife. And then Taylor Swift is like, I was actually being empathetic.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That it's. Yeah. I must say. What happened? She came up to her and she's like. And she's like, you're not that famous, are you?

[Sam Taggart]

I hate it. Must hurt to be brunette.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. Yeah, but it is so, like. I'm sure. I'm sure. I mean, they're both jealous of each other, like.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I know. It's really. Well, is Charlie jealous of Taylor?

[Sam Taggart]

I don't know.

[Leva Pierce]

Charlie's. Maybe. She's like. She's got her own thing going on.

[George Severis]

I think it's emblematic. I think Charlie sees the popularity of someone like Taylor and is like, this is everything that's wrong with the wild. Like, she's. She's. It makes her upset on a more systemic level. But Taylor can only see things on a one to one level. She's like, you either love me or you hate me. And if you hate me, then I'm gonna write an album about you. Yeah, it's very interesting.

[Leva Pierce]

It's like black and white.

[George Severis]

Totally.

[Leva Pierce]

The world is black and white.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[George Severis]

No, she's literally like.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow. She's like a dog.

[Leva Pierce]

Wow.

[George Severis]

You heard it here first. Wow. Was she born that way?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

No, because she was frozen at. She was frozen.

[George Severis]

Oh, yeah. She was frozen when she got famous.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Okay. So pretty much that's sympathy.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, that's.

[George Severis]

Any final thoughts on Sympathy?

[Leva Pierce]

I would just say, like, I think to gay people, like, let's. Let's try and do better at listening when something bad is happening and not going back to you. And also, I think let's. I. I do think it's so true of, like, gay people can't be happy for each other.

[George Severis]

You think so? But do you think straight people can? I guess.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, I think they can because they're like. They're kind of like were. There's not like a. There's not, like a sense of. It's like, we're all gonna get it. Like, we're all going to heaven. That's the vibe of. You know what I mean?

[George Severis]

Yeah, there's enough to go around.

[Leva Pierce]

And with gay people, it does feel.

[George Severis]

Like it's like, yeah, there can only be one. Not enough.

[Leva Pierce]

But.

[George Severis]

But what about. And I'm about to explore a sexist trope, so bear with me.

[Leva Pierce]

I can't wait.

[George Severis]

A trope of, like, a girl, girlfriend, group, group. One of them gets married first, the other ones are jealous.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And again, I know it's a trope. I'm not supporting it. But what do you think of it?

[Leva Pierce]

And then they're jealous because they're, like, single.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And they're not. Exactly. And. Yeah, exactly. They're like. They're smiling, but there's blood coming out of their eyes. And they're like, I'm so happy for you.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. Well, I do think, like, if you're getting rejected a lot, that that makes you a little bit more gay because you're just experiencing difficulty in what's supposed to be easy.

[George Severis]

I know in many ways, being a single galaxy is gayer than being just, like, a gay guy.

[Leva Pierce]

I'm like, yeah, I like a gay guy.

[George Severis]

Because you're in a relationship with it. Yes, exactly. Within the. Within the community of straight women, let's say, you know, sort of like sorority. Sorority type straight women living in the big city, all of them work in pr. To be single in that community is more stigmatized than just being gay in New York.

[Sam Taggart]

No, it's true.

[George Severis]

Like, legitimately.

[Sam Taggart]

That's why Gaga is allowed to talk about the LGBTQ community.

[George Severis]

Because as a single blonde girl in New York. As a single blonde girl in New York, she is part of the plus.

[Sam Taggart]

She's part of the plus. If that's not the plus, I don't know what it is.

[George Severis]

Yeah, no, but I. But I really do feel that, yeah, if you're at the, like, baby shower, at the bachelorette party, everyone else's couples, and you're single, and in your community, it's stigmatized to be single, single. Like, you are sitting there and you're like. You're literally like the goth daughter at the family reunion.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. Because it's like, it's like. You're like, yeah, it's. The world isn't fair.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

Which I feel like is like, you get that much quicker when you're gay because you're like, nothing's working. Like, it's like, it's like you're younger. It's like, nothing's working.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

Like, I remember kissing a guy and just being like, I'm broken. Like, I was like. I was like, this feels crazy. Like, this feels so crazy. You know what I mean?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

And that is like, I feel like if you go through that as. As a kid, you're just like. You're just like, oh, you can't trust it. Like, you can't trust that the things people say are going to be good, are going to be good.

[Sam Taggart]

This is one of the most.

[Leva Pierce]

You get there and then they're not.

[Sam Taggart]

No, It's, I think, also something you're pointing to. I've always found it so frustrating that, like. And surprising that attraction is literally real. Like, that you can. Like, that's not chosen in a way that's shocking.

[Leva Pierce]

It's like a magic.

[George Severis]

It makes you believe in God. No, because you're like, surely there's someone out there looking out for me.

[Sam Taggart]

Because you're like, I shouldn't. This shouldn't feel better than that. Like, it's all the same physical. And then you're like, no, this really works, and that really doesn't.

[Leva Pierce]

Crazy. And it'll be like, people honestly have really similar personalities, but one person, you're just like, yes.

[George Severis]

Yeah, totally.

[Leva Pierce]

It is like, wow. What is that? It's amazing.

[Sam Taggart]

I wanted to say something. I thought a bit when we were talking about Lady Gaga for one brief second. She is the ultimate empath. Because literally, she, like, watch a movie about, like, you know, whales, and she'll be like, holy shit, I'm a whale. Like, she, like, literally can't not take on the personality of something she's, like, watching. Like, when she sees a gay guy, she's like, I'm a gay guy. Like, she's like, holy shit, that's me.

[Leva Pierce]

Like, she's very. I'm. I. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

She loves to be. Like, I was a stripper in New York City, and it's like, you.

[George Severis]

You weren't. You weren't.

[Sam Taggart]

You, like, saw strippers.

[George Severis]

Totally. Yeah. No, she does have, like, a porous. Absorb a porous sense of self. Like, she's walking through the world and each thing she's interacting with, it's like she. There's like a little koi pond and she suddenly gets gills.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

Yes. Wait, wait. Yes. It's like there's this Marvel character. Oh, God.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, now I see everything where it's like.

[Leva Pierce]

I. I don't know. I literally don't remember what movie this was. Oh, I think it was Superman where there was like this. This guy who was like, he touched something and he became it.

[George Severis]

Superman is dc.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Thank you, George.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Leva Pierce]

I'm safe, though, because I don't want to know.

[George Severis]

You know what I mean?

[Leva Pierce]

Like, that's cool. I'm like, I don't even know dc, but whatever. But he, like. Anyway, that's.

[Sam Taggart]

Are you thinking about the kids?

[Leva Pierce]

I really thought I brought this up.

[George Severis]

No, no, I love it. Keep going. Because it is. It is very. No, but it's very superhero esque. Well, isn't that literally Mystique?

[Sam Taggart]

Well, she doesn't need to touch stuff. She just can.

[Leva Pierce]

There's multiple people with powers like that.

[George Severis]

Lady Gaga is. Lady Gaga is sort of Mystique.

[Sam Taggart]

She's Mystique, but she has to work out Chameleon.

[George Severis]

Kind of Chameleon. Yeah, well, Mystique is based on chameleon. Chameleon.

[Leva Pierce]

But it's more like if a chameleon was like, I'm blue and they haven't changed.

[George Severis]

That's true.

[Sam Taggart]

No, she changed.

[George Severis]

Yeah. She's more chameleon than. Than mystique.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

I also feel like when she, like, mystique is sympathy. Chameleon is empathy. Whoa.

[Leva Pierce]

Do you think she saw a lady in red? She's like, I'm gonna be the lady in red now.

[George Severis]

Probably.

[Sam Taggart]

She literally saw a lady in red and was like, holy. I'm that.

[Leva Pierce]

It's real funny to me.

[George Severis]

When she was Joe Calderon, she just, like, met a man.

[Sam Taggart]

She met a man who was Italian.

[Leva Pierce]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

And she was like, that's me.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, because you. Oh, she is, though.

[Sam Taggart]

She's Italian.

[Leva Pierce]

She is. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

She has access to a lot of Italian men due to her family. Should we do even.

[George Severis]

You hesitating for a second and not knowing she was Italian? I'm sorry. It literally made me reconsider, like, this entire conversation I was like, oh, God, they. They actually don't know a lot about Lady Gaga.

[Leva Pierce]

No, no, I. I'm sorry. I do know that. It's like German.

[George Severis]

German. Yeah.

[Leva Pierce]

But I don't know. I suddenly I was like German, but I'm like, that's just cuz. German and nada.

[George Severis]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Sam Taggart]

It's literally. She's saying she's not a German.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, that's such a helpful way to.

[George Severis]

Remember if you think Is Lady Gaga German? Just. Just think German. Nada.

[Leva Pierce]

And then. Yeah. Stefan Neom Italian.

[Sam Taggart]

Should we do our fail seg?

[George Severis]

I. I mean, we can. I'm having fun. No, we should.

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[Leva Pierce]

Shh. You won't believe what my new friend just told me about dinosaurs.

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[George Severis]

I love the wash of your jeans.

[Leva Pierce]

Oh, thank you.

[George Severis]

Are they vintage?

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Is your shirt vintage as well?

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Can I just go back? Sorry, I we. We need to wrap up. But it's like you mentioned briefly earlier, just like how lesbian? Like I would say 70% of lesbian culture.

[Sam Taggart]

Blink. It's not that big.

[George Severis]

Blink 70% of lesbian. Big blink. Big blink challenge.

[Sam Taggart]

You were like, lock in.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Like, so much of lesbian culture is tailoring.

[Leva Pierce]

Yes.

[George Severis]

And it's like, how do I access that? It's an instinct. Like, of course, I also occasionally will get something tailored. I'm not like, you know, I'm not a monster. But it is the equivalent of what, like, you know, juicing is to gay guys. Like, it's like, you know what I mean? It's like, it's like the foundation upon which everything else is built. For lesbians, it's tailoring. And for gay guys, it's like, how do I look? Good in a muscle tank.

[Leva Pierce]

Yes. And layering.

[George Severis]

And layering is like.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. Because it's like, well, for me, I have been to a tailor.

[Sam Taggart]

Of course.

[Leva Pierce]

Guilty. But I also. So to me, it's a lot about. I can't order anything online.

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Leva Pierce]

Like, I have. You gotta go and you have to, like, you have to spend a day, like, going. Trying things on. Like, it is like, there's no other test than the physical.

[Sam Taggart]

You have to try it on.

[Leva Pierce]

You have to try it on. And then. Yeah. I feel like it's all about layers. Shape, fall, fall, fall so big with shirts. How do they fall?

[George Severis]

Draping.

[Leva Pierce]

Draping. Just reassociating terms. Texture, texture, thickness. Yeah. But for me, it is like. It is like, it's all about. It's all about, like, that square. Yeah, that square fit, like, fills out the shoulders, falls, like, below the hip. Ugh. It's like. It is erotic.

[Sam Taggart]

Nothing like it.

[Leva Pierce]

It's amazing.

[George Severis]

It really is. It's literally more erotic than wearing lingerie.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. Well, yeah, for me. Yeah, for sure.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Let's do our final segment.

[George Severis]

Let's do it.

[Sam Taggart]

Our final segment is called Shoutouts. And in the grand straight tradition of the radio shout out, we give a shout out to anything that we are enjoying. People, places, things, ideas. We will go first. And George, do you have one? Because that would be really amazing. That would be so cool if you happen to have one. And I know I would be happy about that.

[George Severis]

Okay, hold on, hold on. We think of them on the spot. So this is by design. We're not doing anything wrong.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. We're doing everything right.

[George Severis]

Let me think, let me think, let me think. Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, I have one.

[George Severis]

Go.

[Sam Taggart]

What's up, freaks, losers and perverts around the globe. I want to give a shout out to watching a movie and hearing a song in the movie and then being like, wait, I'm gonna download that album. And I Think this is shunned. Often in our society, people love to be like. You didn't know that before that movie came out? No, that's how I found out about it because I watched the movie. Sometimes I watch a movie, I say, what is that song? And I'll look up the soundtrack and I'll say, that's the song song. And then sometimes it leads me to something. Usually, yeah, it's a bit of a dead end on the album. I won't be that interested. But it was a fun idea to download the album in that moment. And it's. I'm trying to grow and I'm trying to learn new things and if that's my avenue, then so be it. Sorry, I don't have people in my life telling me new music all the time. What if I want something niche? How do people ever find anything niche for real? I don't know. You have to just watch movies and be like, what's that song? That's my shout out. Xoxo Sam.

[George Severis]

What's up freaks and losers? I want to give a shout out to Zara Holm. I don't know who is in charge over there. I don't know who is in charge. It's probably some span. It's. It's Penelope Cruz's gay cousin, cool gay cousin that she grew up with and that's the reason she's so cunt all the time. But whatever is happening there in the Spain HQ is pretty alarming because Zara Normal is, you know, producing clothes made of tissue paper, sort of emulating like Balenciaga designs from five years ago. You buy them immediately, they disintegrate. They're all made by little children that, that are like created by AI just to make this one shirt and then they're put to rest. But something is happening in Zara home. The level of sophistication is absolutely shocking. I am now hearing more and more people I know that are professionals in the decor space recommending it and there's. And it is higher quality than, than you would expect and it's more well designed than you would expect and it has that perfect combination of sort of, of American functionalism and European taste that I just love and go gaga for. So shout out to Zara Home. I would absolutely love a discount code because it actually is a little more pricey than you would expect. And I am really looking into. Yes and everyone should please reach out. We love promoting you brands and I'm really looking into this stainless steel kind of credenza that would look Amazing. On one of my walls.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, there you go.

[Leva Pierce]

I'm going to give a shout out. I just saw the movie Blue Moon. I. I want to shout out Ethan Hawke's performance.

[George Severis]

They made him short.

[Leva Pierce]

They made him short. He's a gay guy who's shorter than you would expect. He looks like they made him 4 foot 2. He looks so short. And I don't know how they did it. Shout out to Richard Linklater for figuring that out and using tricks of the camera and all that. I just thought that Ethan Hawke playing this gay guy was so interesting. His voice was slightly inconsistent, but I didn't care. He was having the time of his life and I could tell that he enjoyed living in that, being that guy. And I just. Honestly, anyone else who talked in that movie, I got pissed off. He said, go back to Ethan. I'm loving what he's doing. He's drunk, he's gay, he's having a great time. He's actually bi and his character is.

[George Severis]

Bi, unlike Lady Gara.

[Leva Pierce]

And I just feel like he had his hair slicked back. He had maybe prosthetics, I don't know. But he looked completely different. And I just think it's awesome that, that he's kind of a hot guy actor and he chose to play this tiny bi guy and wear a ton of foundation and a crazy wig. And I just think he was really funny.

[Sam Taggart]

I was listening to Culture Gap, this movie, just this morning at 6:30 in the morning.

[Leva Pierce]

I love to be in sync with those guys.

[George Severis]

And I've heard.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm gonna watch it.

[George Severis]

I've heard. I'm not gonna say who because I don't want anyone to get mad. I've heard has a terrible performance.

[Sam Taggart]

Hormones. I need to know after. Well, this has been a real delight. Thanks for doing the pod.

[Leva Pierce]

Thank you for having me. This was. This is this. I mean, I'm a long time listener.

[Sam Taggart]

I appreciate it.

[George Severis]

Would you like to promote anything or tell people where to find you? Because we are now professionals.

[Leva Pierce]

Oh, my gosh. You can find me on Instagram. Chopped leva.

[George Severis]

Wait, you sort of invented chopped.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah, I know. I've been chopped for years now.

[George Severis]

It's like, it's honestly like amazing. Yeah. Like, that's like a triple on top.

[Leva Pierce]

Yeah. Yeah. Literally. Yes. Yes, it is. Yeah. Chopped leva. People think it's chopped liver, but it's chopped leva. And what am I doing? I'm gonna be doing, I think, some shows with my musical duo Dukes, which is my duo with Jane Wickline. And we're gonna have some shows in the winter, I think.

[George Severis]

Stay tuned.

[Sam Taggart]

Looking forward to it. Okay, bye bye bye. Podcast ends now.

[George Severis]

Want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month, Discord Access and more by heading to patreon.com Stradiolab and for.

[Sam Taggart]

All our visual learners. Free full length video episodes are available on our YouTube.

[George Severis]

Now get back to work.

[Sam Taggart]

Stradiolab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money players network and iHeart podcasts.

[George Severis]

Created and hosted by George Severis and.

[Sam Taggart]

Sam Taggart executive produced by Will Ferrell Hansani and Olivia Aguilar co produced by Bang Wang Edited and engineered by Adam.

[George Severis]

Avalos Artwork by Michael Fales and Matt.

[Sam Taggart]

Grubb Theme music by Ben Kling.

[NordicTrack Advertiser]

The only thing between you and your best self is a start button this Cyber Monday Explore the world with NordicTrack. From the peaks of Peru to the streets of Paris, every workout moves you so somewhere new with iFit trainers leading the way. The equipment's amazing, smooth, quiet and those screens make it all feel real. Ready to start your next workout adventure with the number one treadmill brand in the U.S. shop NordicTrack.com for Cyber Monday savings. NordicTrack train anywhere. Explore everywhere.

[George Severis]

Shh.

[Leva Pierce]

You won't believe what my new friend just told me about dinosaurs.

[Meco Mini Advertiser]

Is your child having conversations you never imagined? Are they learning without realizing it? It's not a tablet. It's not a toy. It's Meco Mini plus, the AI powered companion that turns curiosity into endless learning. Hear the future of playtime. Meet the extraordinary Meco Mini plus only at Costco.

[Washington Post Advertiser]

Come for the Black Friday seasonal savings. Stay for the award winning report. For a limited time, access to the Washington post is just 99 cents. That's unlimited access to all of the posts for only 99 cents every four weeks. That's a great deal for the first year. After that it'll cost $12 every four weeks. You can cancel anytime, but don't wait. This Black Friday seasonal offer won't be here for long. Go to washingtonpost.com iheart and grab this deal before it's gone. That's washingtonpost.com iheartra heart bring incredible sound.

[Whim Sound Advertiser]

Into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Whim Sound smart speaker. Get high resolution Audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $299. From Quiet Mornings to lively holiday gatherings, Whim Sound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself. Whim Sound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search Whim Sound that's W I I m s.

[Leva Pierce]

O u n d this is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.