"The First Look" w/ Kate Berlant

Summary

StraightioLab – “The First Look” w/ Kate Berlant

Podcast: StraightioLab
Hosts: George Civeris, Sam Taggart
Guest: Kate Berlant
Release Date: January 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, comedians George Civeris and Sam Taggart are joined by comedian, actor, and writer Kate Berlant to examine "the first look"—an emotionally charged, highly ritualized moment in modern straight weddings. The discussion spins outward, unpacking the theatricality of weddings, wellness and everyday rituals, LA vs. NY social codes, and the performative contradictions at the core of straight culture. The episode is candid, sharp, and familiar in its humor: a wry, affectionate, and sometimes exasperated look at social rituals and the strange comfort and stress they provide.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Post-Glamor Comedown & LA vs. NY Vibes

[04:00-06:30]

• George describes the surreal experience of living “a month in LA,” attending the Globes (in the overflow room), and feeling both glamorous and out of place.
  • “I was feeling the fantasy of being like, it’s normal for me to be in all these, like, spaces with famous people.” – George [04:30]
• Kate jokes about waiting for podcast hosts’ cues: “I never know if I can talk yet.” [05:26]
• Banter about recognizing celebrity traits—wigs, extensions, and the small luxuries stars fly across the country for (e.g., “flying to LA for my dentist or extensions”).

Wellness Hacks and Preparedness Paradoxes

[08:04-13:25]

• The trio discusses health anxieties and modern wellness obsessions—IV drips, immunity hacks, and the evidence (or lack thereof) for their efficacy.

• Kate shares a daily wellness tip from Huberman: swishing water first thing for immunity, though everyone is skeptical it's more than just drinking water.

  • “Wake up, swish, swallow.” – Kate [13:33]

• Quick digression into the cultural mystique and controversies around Andrew Huberman, with nods to podcast scandals.

Instagram, Protein Bars & the “Bubble”

[17:31-21:35]

• Kate confesses 25 days without Instagram and the cycles of influence—how even low-level influencers serve as “trusted sources” for lifestyle choices.
• A debate on the place of protein bars versus “whole foods” in daily routines.
• Briefly, they reflect on New York vs LA wedding crashers and the blurred etiquette around parties and social events (“crasher is a strong word, but…”).

Crashing Weddings & Changing Social Norms

[22:55-27:01]

• Humorous retelling of Kate crashing George’s wedding afterparty.
  • “I didn’t ask. It’s actually completely unacceptable behavior. And if I were in your shoes, I’d be like, no.” – Kate [23:27]
• Weddings in NYC as porous, with people blurring boundaries—sometimes for the better, sometimes just for the burgers.

Wedding Venues, LA Options & Community

[27:01-29:54]

• The significance of specific venues (Julius in NY, Metropolitan, Bernie's), and the vanishing nature of queer/alternative spaces.
  • “Things are closing left and right... It’s all gone.” – George [27:31]
• Reflection on the impossibility of replicating a NY-style wedding in LA.

Straight Shooters: Rapid-Fire Segment

[29:49-31:26]

• The “Straight Shooters” segment—a series of A-or-B word games to probe Kate’s “complicity in straight culture.”
• Kate’s mechanical “A” or “B” replies are noted as “very AI, like ones and zeros”—prompting banter about personality and performance.

The Performance of Small Talk & Wellness in LA

[36:41-41:35]

• Extended analysis of “How are you?” as a ritual greeting in LA—how even the smallest interactions can become sites of over-analysis and emotional policing.
  • “You’re supposed to lie. Like everyone else lies. Like, if you even imply some truth of, like, ‘I’m fine’—they’re like, ‘Whoa, whoa, whoa, don’t do that to me.’” – Sam [36:06]
• George theorizes LA’s everyday “errand culture” as an elaboration of simple tasks into day-consuming rituals (“how robust can we make it... what if it takes up the entire day?”).

Bubble Awareness & Divergence Over Time

[50:53-52:00]

• Realization that even among similar people, opinions and lifestyles can radically diverge over time, leading to “bubble awareness.”
  • “I will meet someone, and they’re like, I’m just like you, except I have all different opinions. That doesn’t sit right.” – Sam [51:08]

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Featured Topic: “The First Look” in Straight Weddings

[41:51-59:29]

• Kate’s Main Topic: The “first look”—the staged, highly photographed pre-ceremony meeting of bride and groom.

  • “It’s a fabricated moment… they have that confrontation, that essential confrontation. And there’s so much in that. There’s such a dense moment. It’s such a dense performance.” – Kate [43:07]

• The trio dissects the gendered and performative expectations:

  • The pressure for the groom to visibly “react” (ideally with tears).
  • The fact that the visual spectacle (“bride’s dress, makeup”) is mainly for the woman and the camera.
  • “What the woman is wanting is for him to act excited about these things she has worked hard to get.” – George [47:00]
  • The “first look” as “the turn,” a kind of contract or state recognition: “It’s your husband. It’s the tap. It’s actually being recognized by the state. It’s—gotcha.” – Kate [58:22]

• Sam introduces the “prank” genre: best man dresses as bride for the reveal “first look,” which combines prank culture, gender essentialism, and “the look”—and the group hilariously recoils.

Wedding Rituals, Group Dynamics & Guest List Trauma

[52:24-56:14]

• Harrowing tales of guest list management—balancing friend groups, family obligations, and social guilt.
  • “You’re in it, and then you come out, you’re like, oh, I guess I didn’t invite the person I love the most ... because they weren’t part of a group.” – George [54:12]
• LGBTQ and straight weddings seen through the lens of “ritual submission” and the stress involved.

Performative Contradictions, Theatricality & Authenticity

[57:13-59:22]

• The critical paradox: “first looks” and wedding rituals are so on-the-nose theatrical that analysis seems almost unnecessary, yet these performances are also the site of authenticity and communal joy.
  • “Can we delight in theater? Of course. Can we be transformed through theater? Yes… Just you’re not gonna have an authentic, raw experience at something where you’ve planned, like—but you can.” – Kate [59:21]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On wedding etiquette:
  “There’s something about seeing a normal person who wasn’t at the ceremony … being like, right, get out. Makes me angry on both of you for even—for even...” – Kate [25:17]

• On bubble awareness and wedding trends:
  “If you want to feel insane, Google ‘gay men wedding suits.’ We’re talking one turquoise, one purple.” – George [63:01]

• On greetings and emotional honesty:
  “You’re supposed to lie. Like everyone else lies ... if you even imply some truth of, like, ‘I’m fine’—they’re like, ‘Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Don’t do that to me.’” – Sam [36:06]

• On the meaning of ritual in weddings:
  “These are the things that punctuate our lives that give meaning. Stressful.” – Kate [51:32]

• On wedding humor:
  “Straight weddings are humorless … the jokes are never work. I mean, I’m being hyperbolic, of course. But it’s like, it’s all ‘doesn’t he suck?’ … and that she’s the boss of the house.” – Kate [72:06]

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• LA Week, Golden Globes, and Celebrity Rituals: [04:00–07:00]
• Wellness/Fake Science/Podcast Culture: [08:04–14:19]
• Instagram Fasts, Protein Bar Discourse: [17:31–20:08]
• Wedding Crashing and Party Norms: [22:55–26:26]
• Straight Shooters Segment: [29:49–31:26]
• LA “How Are You?” and Bubble Life: [36:41–41:51]
• The “First Look” Deep Dive: [41:51–59:29]
• Guest List & Ritual Stress (LGBTQ and Family): [52:24–56:14]
• Reflections on Theatricality & Authentic Performance: [57:13–59:29]
• Weddings: Sit-Down Dinner or Not, AV Issues: [65:00–67:25]
• Humor at Weddings: [71:07–73:10]

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Shout Outs & End Segment

• Sam: Shouts out 30 Rock: “It is aging like a fine wine.” [76:12–77:02]
• George: Shouts out Hedda, a Sapphic retelling of Hedda Gabler: “One of the best actresses I’ve ever seen on screen or stage.” [77:02–78:32]
• Kate: Shouts out the film Margaret by Kenneth Lonergan: “They don’t make them like that.” [78:34–79:18]

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Overall Tone & Style

Wry, rapid-fire, and intellectually playful, the episode has the loose intimacy of close friends volleying observations both silly and profound. The hosts and guest alternate between sincere cultural critique and joyful, sometimes exasperated, acceptance of straight rituals: laughing at performative absurdity, but recognizing the meaning rituals provide. There’s acute attention to how performance, community, and tradition mesh and clash across social divides—especially weddings—and a warmth for their queer, “bubble” vantage point (even as they gently roast themselves).

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For Further Engagement

• Kate Berlant:

  • Instagram: @kateberlant (despite abstaining)
  • Podcast: Poog

• StraightioLab:

  • YouTube
  • Patreon for bonus episodes

This episode is particularly recommended for anyone bemused by modern marriage rituals, obsessed with social performance, and interested in the intersection of straight and queer cultures—with lots of laughter along the way.

Transcript

[Kate Berlant]

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[George Severis]

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[Kate Berlant]

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[Kate Berlant]

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[George Severis]

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[Kate Berlant]

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[George Severis]

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[Kate Berlant]

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[Sam Taggart]

Podcast starts now.

[George Severis]

Just kidding. We wanted to let you know that we have two shows in San Francisco literally this week.

[Sam Taggart]

We have two. One is a standup show on January 22nd, that is a Thursday in San Francisco.

[George Severis]

And then the other one is a Stratiolab live show with Marie Fouston and Brittany Carney and potentially some more exciting guests. And that is Friday, January 23rd. There are tickets available for both and.

[Sam Taggart]

They are available in our bio. And we have been keeping this so secretive and not posting because we are weird.

[George Severis]

Yeah. So basically tell all your friends, come to our shows. Sketchfest is so fun. We had such a good time last year and we can't wait to see you San Francisco.

[Sam Taggart]

So get tickets now and enjoy the app. Bye bye. Podcast starts now. Wow. What is up? Everyone around the globe. We are coming at you live from Los Angeles, California.

[George Severis]

How are you feeling?

[Sam Taggart]

So amazing.

[George Severis]

We are still. It is still the day after the Golden Globes, which it was last episode we recorded.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. And who knows what order we're releasing them in. So now you've been. You've had like an LA week. I want to say, like, you've been working. You were at the Globes. I want to know where your head's at because, like, you're. That's kind of weird.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And you're like pretending like it's normal.

[George Severis]

Well, so I've had this. I live in New York City, as some people might know. I'm here for the month.

[Sam Taggart]

I had a.

[George Severis]

And people keep asking, what are you here for? What's the big gig? I say, lower your expectations. But last week I did feel like. You know what? I felt like there was an early Inside Amy Schumer sketch where she does a VO gig and she walks in holding a giant coffee and wearing. It's like no makeup and she's wearing a hoodie. I was kind of feeling that fantasy. I was feeling the fantasy of being like, it's normal for me to be in all these, like, spaces with famous people. Like, sure, I'll go do a VO gig. Sure, I'll Go do two recordings of the Iheart studio. Sure. I'll go to the Globes and watch in the overflow room. And so I. And I think I'm currently coming down from that because I don't have any more glamorous things for actually the foreseeable future.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

So. Well, except for the current recording that we're doing. Well, of course, one of my favorite comedians, actors and writers, one of the.

[Sam Taggart]

Most glamorous recording we have.

[George Severis]

Glamorous recording. Someone who. I mean, the. The I. That she was wearing a full on laced in wig. I think that's not her hair.

[Kate Berlant]

I never know if I can talk yet.

[George Severis]

Please welcome Kate Berlant.

[Kate Berlant]

Hi.

[George Severis]

Thank you for that sweet introduction.

[Kate Berlant]

I really don't know the rules at this point. When you're.

[George Severis]

Well, we didn't explain them to you.

[Kate Berlant]

No, no, no. But this is every podcast. You know, I've been doing it. I've been doing podcasts a while. Right. I never know you completely. You're not supposed to make a sound.

[George Severis]

Well, the thing is, I don't want.

[Kate Berlant]

You to think that I'm stoically.

[George Severis]

No, I know. But the thing is, it's like we're setting you up for failure because what.

[Sam Taggart]

We do is we tell people to, you know, sort of be quiet while we do our intro, of course. But then with the hope, of course, that they feel so comfortable with us, that they're like, actually, I need to talk.

[George Severis]

Well, actually, I need to talk would be like a sign of intimacy is like, as you're doing this, you're like. And can I just say something? And then you. And then you jump in.

[Kate Berlant]

Well, thank you for the wig compliment. I did have. Who was it? Cuoco? No, some. Some actress once was like, that's a wig. And I was like, no, it's not. And she was like, like real. Like, really? And I was like, it's not.

[George Severis]

I met this actress. Do you know her?

[Kate Berlant]

I have to. I'm really bad with. I. No, I don't.

[Sam Taggart]

Me either.

[Kate Berlant]

But I'm like, so terrified. Like, of course. Love her, love her, love her.

[George Severis]

So she's. She's the front runner. Anyway, the point is that was very like Kathy Griffin of me or something. Yes, yes. Or almost like lady Bunny or something.

[Sam Taggart]

It's a bit RuPaul.

[George Severis]

It's a bit RuPaul. Anyway, the point is that I met her at a beautiful Christmas party in New York City and she. I was desperately trying to make very sweet, but not my world. I was trying to make small Talk. And we were talking about traveling to la, and she was like, oh, yeah, I have to go back to LA to get my extensions taken out.

[Sam Taggart]

What? We're blowing this whole thing wide open.

[Kate Berlant]

Wait, why?

[George Severis]

And I always, you know when someone says something and you're like, well, we have to sort of like unpack this now for a half hour.

[Kate Berlant]

First of all. No, you don't. Can I do something to make you.

[George Severis]

Realize I was just like, wait, what?

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. Wow. Maybe she has her girl.

[Sam Taggart]

Did it, did it endear you to her?

[George Severis]

Well, yes, because I think she was acting like she was acting. She had this vibe when someone has just hit it big, which is true for her, and we'll bleep out her name. So I guess I can say I.

[Kate Berlant]

Like to have that vibe so waiting.

[George Severis]

You know what I mean? Like, wherever. I think it's like, I think she was tickled herself that she had to fly back to LA to get her. To get her.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, it's, to me more luxurious than, like, having a doctor appointment in, like, a different city.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, I actually, I want to keep my dentist here forever. And wherever I am, I'm like, well, I have to fly to LA for my dentist.

[Kate Berlant]

Totally.

[Sam Taggart]

Because he's my guy.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Well, I one time was working on a project and someone was sick the day of a performance and they had to get that, like, shot you get. Oh, yeah, Like, I guess it's like a steroid shot.

[Kate Berlant]

B12 right in your house.

[George Severis]

Is that what it is?

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, apparently.

[George Severis]

And it just fixes you. It fixed him.

[Kate Berlant]

I really, I. I want to do that. I don't want to ever. You know, I have. I've been getting into doing drips, like IV vitamin drips a little too. Like, where now if I feel a little something coming on, I'm like making wait.

[George Severis]

So, and how does that work? Oh, you make an appointment. Okay. It's not like at home.

[Kate Berlant]

No, no. But at home appointments are like, astronomically expensive. Or if you go in, it's just expensive.

[Sam Taggart]

Sure, sure.

[George Severis]

And. And do you really feel like it? Before and after.

[Kate Berlant]

Swear by them. Really swear by them. Not going in full. I don't like, not, not hangover. Like, if you're like, like, am I getting a cold?

[George Severis]

Is something coming and then it stops coming.

[Sam Taggart]

It stops coming every time. Wow.

[Kate Berlant]

But. And I'm not going hacking sick. I'm going like, symptomless, but just like a little something. And I have a hyper aware, you know, I'm very sensitive to those things. And, and, but I don't probably don't need to be doing it. I did just buy a package. So, you know.

[George Severis]

Oh, they come in packages.

[Kate Berlant]

Well, I've gone. I don't go all. And they. By the way, and I'll say this to the public, a nurse told me, IV drip once a month. You don't need to be going. More like if. Yeah, that's kind of the most you want to be doing or need to be doing. How bioavailable is it? I don't know.

[Sam Taggart]

And this is interesting. I, I. You know the preparedness paradox, where it's like, if you over prepare, then you're like, the thing that you're preparing for doesn't happen because you're so prepared.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

But then you're like, well, I'm an idiot for doing that because it didn't happen. And so then if you don't prepare, then the thing that you're dreading does happen.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm always on the edge. I'm on the side of like, well, I'll just not prepare. And then I'm always like, ugh. Like, so I think even knowing and having access to an IV drip, I'll be like, well, let me wait three days. Like, let's just see where this goes. And I can never get ahead of anything.

[George Severis]

I am a big sigh. The humiliation for me is that I just really am a sickly person. I get sick so often, and I hate that about, like, I'm just like, I judge other people who get sick often. I'm like, you have Munchausens. If someone else gets sick, it's actually, I think there's probably, like, sexist undertones to it. I'm like, you're faking your chronic pain.

[Kate Berlant]

Totally. Totally. Would you want to hear one of my immunity hacks that I've been doing and I haven't. Is that real one, guys? Okay. I don't know, but I haven't had a cold or anything in quite a while, and I've been in very, you know, and I go, well, it's coming now. Traveling, wedding, flight, another wedding, whatever. All the, all the factors to really, you know, have something blossoming. And I heard about this. I'm hiding where I heard about Huberman.

[George Severis]

No, okay.

[Kate Berlant]

No, I know, I know. But it's a Huberman immunity. I listen to. I listened to Huberman. There was a week I was doing a lot of driving and I listened to, like, maybe, I don't know, three Huberman podcasts. I was in his top 1% roundup from this year, and I was like, there's no way. I listened to maybe three episodes, and I don't understand, like, I don't really understand culturally, the context. What makes him so. Yeah, like, I mean, I understand it like. Like, aesthetically and, like, spiritually. Something's going on that's scary. But he's a doctor at Berkeley, guys.

[George Severis]

You know, our connection with him, we had as a guest in one of our live shows, we were trying this new thing where we were going to. We were having serious writers and serious experts rather than comedians. Like, talk about an element of straight culture. And I guess Kerry Halley. And at the time, she was writing a big expose, and she was like, I'm writing a big expose on, like, a famous podcaster, but I can't say who. And then it came out, and it was the Huberman. It was the New York mag Huberman cover show.

[Kate Berlant]

I missed that. When was that?

[George Severis]

Like, two years ago?

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, shit.

[Kate Berlant]

I missed that. I missed that completely. So I'm like, late. I'm so late that I was like, there's a consent. Like, I was like, so late that I.

[George Severis]

It's not like she, you know, canceled him for.

[Kate Berlant]

What do you do?

[George Severis]

It's not that he. It's a variety of.

[Kate Berlant]

It's a culture of intimidation.

[George Severis]

All right. I wish I remembered the details, and I apologize if she's listening.

[Sam Taggart]

I did not read it, but.

[George Severis]

No, I did read it.

[Kate Berlant]

I'm going to need to read now.

[George Severis]

I think there's definitely. I mean, I think the ethics of, like, the kinds of ads he does for sort of like quasi wellness.

[Kate Berlant]

We can't get into the ads.

[George Severis]

But then also there were like. There were things with his treatment of women more so in like, a cheating way than in, like, an abusive way.

[Kate Berlant]

Who cares?

[Sam Taggart]

It was. That just shouldn't get in the way of being a doctor.

[George Severis]

Wait, but, But. But what did you hear on the Hebrew M?

[Kate Berlant]

And he was like, this is one of my little. Because I listened to, you know, I was scrolling immunity. I go, well, there's my. There's my topic. And he's like, I've been doing this for a while. It's like an old. It's like an old wives thing or something. But glass of water, side of your bed, when you wake up swishing. Not a crazy swish. Literally just going.

[George Severis]

And swallow.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, and swallow.

[George Severis]

And what does that do?

[Kate Berlant]

I don't know. It's something about the microbiome in your mouth. I don't know. But the point is, he goes, this is a thing about immunity. I haven't gotten sick. I've been doing it for, I say, a year long.

[George Severis]

Wake up, swish, swallow.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. And then, by the way, not. You're not, you know, opening your curtains as you literally just can you. That's it.

[Sam Taggart]

You're essentially just drinking water.

[Kate Berlant]

Cause here's what people are doing. Drinking what?

[Sam Taggart]

Water? Yeah, you're just drinking water.

[Kate Berlant]

I drink water. But. No, but it's swoosh.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

Because people sometimes wake up coffee. That's not it. Or wake up, God forbid, brush your teeth first thing. Maybe you're supposed to do that before coffee.

[George Severis]

I actually recently read that.

[Kate Berlant]

Yes, you are supposed to swish the water in the mouth.

[George Severis]

I need to. Getting sick is one of those things where I'm like. In my head, I'm like, I've done everything. I've done nothing.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Like, I. Because it keeps happening. I'm like, despite all my efforts, I'm still getting sick. Have not googled. Have not even googled immunity.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Like, I just know that I get. I canceled Christmas this year after overnight cooking a lamb shoulder because I woke up sick. No.

[Kate Berlant]

By the way, good for you. And that's community care. It is care. Because where was I recently? Someone like. Like, tight enclosure, six hours. Well, I have a sore throat.

[George Severis]

I know.

[Kate Berlant]

Still didn't get sick because of the Huberman Swish.

[George Severis]

Well, where do you stand on.

[Kate Berlant]

That?

[Sam Taggart]

Is crazy. Can I ask what led you to the Huberman podcast in general?

[Kate Berlant]

Front page of my thing. Just I'm easy.

[George Severis]

Alibaba podcast wrecks, huh? Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

You did that? And then Rogan, Theo Vaughan, Amy Poehler.

[Kate Berlant]

No, I did like four Mel Robbins me.

[George Severis]

I met her last night.

[Kate Berlant]

Me driving, like, crying. Not actually crying, but going like, you know what? My life starts now.

[George Severis]

You're completely unimpressed by what I just said.

[Kate Berlant]

What happened?

[George Severis]

I met her last night. I'm sure she was actually really fun, by the way.

[Kate Berlant]

I believe it. Well, she parties, right?

[George Severis]

I was she drinking.

[Kate Berlant]

I barely listen. But she's always like, I should drink less. I'm like, no, I was.

[George Severis]

I didn't. I thought she'd be so, like, Oprah wellness or, you know, something about her.

[Kate Berlant]

Voice, like, whatever that, like. Like, she's like.

[George Severis]

She's fun. Wine mom.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

And she was glasses on the red carpet, which I always really respect when people do that.

[Kate Berlant]

I wonder if I'll do that one day.

[George Severis]

She's very like. Her sense of humor is like.

[Kate Berlant]

Well, do you like, in my 60s, late.

[Sam Taggart]

Nice. Do you wear. Do you have contacts?

[Kate Berlant]

This is sensitive.

[George Severis]

So.

[Kate Berlant]

No. So I. Very recently, I have glasses that I wear in the movies when I drive. My. My shades are prescription. I pass a DMV sight test. Okay. Everything's, you know, but it's much better if I wear the glasses. And I've actually started to notice. So, I mean, I. But I'm not raw in the day. I was like, I can't do that.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

I'm already like. Like, if I. If I add glasses, I'm like, it's just. It's. I can't do. I have to preserve some kind of, like.

[George Severis]

What about, like, a chic identity? Like, you know those, like, Y2K frameless glasses? Little. Little glasses. Maybe a tent.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, I've got some of those. Oh, they're on here. God damn it. But I've got, like, cute. I've got, like, the cute.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

And that's fun. And I actually wore them out with my mother once to go see a play. And she goes, I like you in these. I was like, really? And she was like, you. You're more approachable, terrifying. I go, who are you, my agent?

[George Severis]

It's so funny because I was told the opposite.

[Kate Berlant]

I go, what if I start booking like crazy? Because then they're like, oh, we get it now.

[George Severis]

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

Like, as if doing this every five seconds wasn't enough. Like, they need the glasses to go. Maybe.

[George Severis]

Well, they do need it literalized.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

So as much as you can do that. Maybe sort of like smudge mascara on your face and wear a. Kind of like a cardigan, but buttons. Button the wrong way.

[Kate Berlant]

Damn it. I don't have them in here. I was going to model them for you. Whatever.

[George Severis]

Do you want to address the fact that you're reading the corrections by Jonathan Franzen?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

By the way, talk about Huberman. Here's another guy. People go, Franzen. I go. It's called being a poet.

[George Severis]

No, but he's great.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. What. What I see. I don't know.

[George Severis]

I'll tell you what it is, by the way.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. I'm actually reading it, guys. Halfway home and. Yeah, 560 pages. Can't put it down.

[George Severis]

It's really good.

[Kate Berlant]

Racing home. It's gorgeous.

[George Severis]

Have you read the Beast?

[Kate Berlant]

Purity? Next. No.

[George Severis]

It's really good. It's all. It's like long, like multiple generations. Family thing. Irish.

[Kate Berlant]

Wait. Oh, but not Francis.

[George Severis]

No, no, not friends.

[Kate Berlant]

Okay. I was gonn.

[George Severis]

But very much along.

[Sam Taggart]

Along those lines, I find.

[Kate Berlant]

Let's just do a. What's in her bag? Let's do what's in her bag.

[Sam Taggart]

I find that. What is that?

[Kate Berlant]

My favorite protein bar.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God. What is it? I do bare bells.

[Kate Berlant]

Oh, yeah. This is like. I was so. I. By the way, I'm clean. I'm 25 days clean from Instagram. I haven't looked once.

[George Severis]

Wow.

[Kate Berlant]

And. But. But then these are things you missed. Because I did once. See, These are the things you missed. I saw an influencer. I saw this girl. I follow this like, to call her influencer. She has maybe 2200 followers. She lives in, I think, North Carolina. I don't know how I got fed her, but I was like, I trust her. And. And she was like. And all the, you know, deep eating disorder, you know, all of it. She's. But she was like, I was craving something sweet after dinner, and she was like. And I had a pro mix, and it looked like a Rice Krispie treat. And I go, huh. So that's what this is. I'm just gonna really quick, quickly redo this. 150 cows. 15 grams of protein.

[George Severis]

Wow.

[Kate Berlant]

5 grams of sugar. So it's a little treat, but it's 5 grams. But you know what? If you guys want to split this, I'll give it to you.

[Sam Taggart]

No, we can't take your bar from you. That would be on not Right.

[Kate Berlant]

But the point is, that's my protein bar, and that's what's in my bag. There's a lot more fun stuff in there. But.

[George Severis]

But not your glasses.

[Sam Taggart]

But not the glasses.

[Kate Berlant]

Glasses aren't in there. I was gonna show you. Yeah.

[George Severis]

What is your relationship to protein bars? Because this is. I've, in the last two years, have. After not exercising quite literally my entire life.

[Kate Berlant]

Like.

[George Severis]

Like just sitting. Standing. Car sitting.

[Kate Berlant]

You can't. You can't be drinking protein bar every day. I feel really strongly.

[Sam Taggart]

Really?

[Kate Berlant]

We need whole foods. You can't be that. That.

[Sam Taggart]

That to me is always, oh, I just had a protein bar today. Every single day I see him, oh, I just had a protein bar. Oh, I haven't had anything but a protein bar. I'm like, what are you eating?

[George Severis]

And this is so bad. Protein bar before working out. Protein shake after working out.

[Sam Taggart]

Whatever happened to the sandwich?

[George Severis]

I got it.

[Kate Berlant]

But you can't. It's like.

[George Severis]

No, it's bad. It's bad.

[Kate Berlant]

You. We. We have to be in reintroducing Whole Foods more, but sure, in a pinch. By the way, traveling. Oh, you should see my travel bag. Oh, I have a flavor promix, by the way. Where's my free promix? I've been talking. I mean, I've been talking them up.

[George Severis]

Wait, what? Mix.

[Kate Berlant]

Pro Mix. That's what it's called.

[George Severis]

Pro mix. And what is it?

[Kate Berlant]

The brand of the bar.

[George Severis]

Oh, the brand of the bar.

[Sponsor Voice]

Okay.

[Kate Berlant]

It comes in 10 million flavors.

[Sam Taggart]

10 million.

[Kate Berlant]

Haven't had a bad one yet.

[George Severis]

You know what's so bad? David bars. Have you ever tried that?

[Kate Berlant]

Oh, yeah, I have one of those. You know what? I got David Codd. I'm actually gonna make it this way.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God.

[George Severis]

No, I saw that. I thought that was an onion joke, and then it turns out it's real.

[Kate Berlant]

Thanks for. And I got it. David has filets of cod.

[George Severis]

I have a theory that in my freezer right now, David bars. So that's so spaghetti.

[Sam Taggart]

David has filets of cod.

[George Severis]

Three people recommended David bars to me and all of them are trans masc. And I had this and one of them told me, you know, it's because we like things that have a male name.

[Kate Berlant]

Gay guy. A cis gay guy with. Loved David.

[George Severis]

Oh, well, that. He's. He's kind of. That's complicated.

[Kate Berlant]

People recommend it.

[George Severis]

Whoa. Yeah. So you've only had CIS people recommend, David? I've only had trans people recommend, so they haven't. What is this incredible product is what I'm hearing? Yeah, I think so. David Cod. It is a frozen fresh. You just.

[Kate Berlant]

Frozen. Frozen. It's a frozen filet. I'm going to poach it probably tomorrow.

[Sam Taggart]

Whoa.

[George Severis]

Are you going to do like a miso no boo style miso cod, do you think?

[Kate Berlant]

I'll do an Elson Roman recipe that I love. That's like a. In broth, kind of a tomato. Brothy shallot, crisp shallots on there. Cilantro.

[George Severis]

I mean, if there weren't, I would call the police. If there weren't crispy shallots in the Alison Roma God recipe, I'd say, excuse me. Excuse me. Is this national security?

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm like, right now what we're doing is every single topic that I have nothing to say anything about.

[George Severis]

Oh, sorry.

[Sam Taggart]

You guys are literally trapping me.

[Kate Berlant]

What are your main topics?

[Sam Taggart]

My topics? I couldn't be further from.

[George Severis]

Sorry, I was not aware. I hate when I'm not aware.

[Sam Taggart]

No.

[George Severis]

My biggest fear is when this happens.

[Sam Taggart]

No, I'm like, wait patiently. Like, wait patiently. Something amazing is going to come up. And I'm like, oh, my God, Shallots. I have nothing to say about shallots.

[Kate Berlant]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm like, okay, franzen. I've got nothing about franzen. I'm like, I'm literally, like, running my return to literature.

[George Severis]

I'm actually so sorry. This is one of the worst things is when I feel in my mind, I'm like, I'm such an empath. I always know what everyone's feeling at any given time. And a loved one and experience ends and someone is like, so I didn't talk. Or like, if we do a pot. And then Sam's like, yeah, I didn't really have much to say about that. I'm like, oh, in my mind, we were firing on all cylinders the entire time.

[Sam Taggart]

No, it's. It's very third wheel. You know, you guys are matching. You guys are talking about Franzen.

[George Severis]

This matching thing is completely in your head because as your bottoms are matched on that, yours is monogram.

[Sam Taggart]

You know, white collared shirt is more bold than jean. Like, you know, that's a stronger connection.

[George Severis]

You also both have black shoes.

[Kate Berlant]

It's true.

[George Severis]

And I have black and white shoes.

[Sam Taggart]

Just saying. Oh, my God, I'm. You know, I should have never made my voice heard.

[George Severis]

Should we talk about you crashing my wedding, by the way?

[Kate Berlant]

Yes. And that was so fun.

[George Severis]

And again, a topic.

[Kate Berlant]

I've never done that.

[Sam Taggart]

No, that was.

[Kate Berlant]

By the way, what month was that? September. Two years ago.

[George Severis]

Like a year and a half. Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

Beautiful. So imagine me, or was I some release party of some zine? No, but. And then it was like, oh, George's wedding is tonight. And I was like, oh, cute. Like, and then you were having the after party, and I just went. I don't know, because I was in the area.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, no, when you, like, seeing you was like.

[Kate Berlant]

And I didn't ask. It's actually completely unacceptable behavior. And if I were in your shoes, I'd be like, no.

[George Severis]

What?

[Kate Berlant]

I would never stop. You know, my calling, my name.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I have. I won't mention. But maybe I will mention my name when we complete.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

So a couple of things. First of all, that's in fact, not what happened. You were outside. You were outside chatting with people, and I looked at you and I said, oh, my God, like, come in.

[Kate Berlant]

Okay, you did invite. Okay, thank you.

[George Severis]

Now, here's the other thing that happened. And Sam, those are about to say multiple people actually crashed, meaning, like, were not invited and showed up with the intent and just walked in being like, that's. This is your party. Now here's the other thing. Next day, you send me a very sweet. I know. DM or text or something. That's like, crazy that I crashed your party, but it had such a good time. Yeah, the people that actually crashed nothing.

[Sam Taggart]

But there's something about a wedding in New York where, like, the rules are unclear. Like, I think people really don't understand social norms when you're at a wedding in New York in a way that I'm speaking from south because I fully walked, like, been like, well, it's just a bar. Like, I can just walk in.

[George Severis]

And also, people crashed your wedding, too?

[Sam Taggart]

Of course.

[George Severis]

I just texted and were like, hey, I'm in town. Like, can I come?

[Sam Taggart]

And it's like, this is really nice.

[Kate Berlant]

So I had a. I had a holiday party. Shout out, small, but. And so say, crash me already. Small. So if you are seeing this, you weren't invited. But crasher is a strong word. But there were a few people that I didn't know who were not. So there's a thing of, like, that energy can be sexy and fun. Right? Who are these people? Not at a wedding. That was. That's tailspin to me. But maybe I'm too. I don't know.

[Sam Taggart]

But the after party, it gets complicated because there is sort of this part where you're, like, transitioning out of wedding mode into real life again. And there's something about seeing a normal person who wasn't at the ceremony and being like.

[Kate Berlant]

Like, right, get out. Makes me angry on both of you for even. For even.

[George Severis]

But don't you think it's like a sign that it's like, wow, to have a wedding that people would crash?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that's true.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. I was in. I was in the street. Is true. Gabbing, screaming. And then. Yeah, you did. You did. You did welcome me in, and it was so special. Let me still talk about it.

[George Severis]

Oh, that's very.

[Kate Berlant]

It was really fun. I was like, damn, this is. Do it right. Do a wedding right?

[George Severis]

I mean, shout out to Julius. And shout out to Julius is Greek American owner who gave me 50 off of the venue.

[Kate Berlant]

Who is that the woman at the door?

[George Severis]

Helen.

[Kate Berlant]

Because I. Because I literally said to her, I come in, and I was.

[George Severis]

I was.

[Kate Berlant]

I was like. I was like, I'm go hair. I was like, by the way, like, me being like, I know what I look like. I'm like, you look gay, bitch.

[George Severis]

Or whatever.

[Kate Berlant]

Me glasses. But okay, the point is, I actually. You know what I did? Out of respect.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

I did not take a burger. Because I was not. Because, yeah, I was. I was like, I wasn't accepting. I'm passing on the burger. If I had been starving, it would have been different. But I was like. I was like, that's for the guests.

[George Severis]

Well, you know what it is? It's like, you obviously could have taken one, but if you took one and then accidentally, like, made eye contact with me while eating it, that would have been humiliating for you.

[Kate Berlant]

No, I go, that's for the guests.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Then you'd be venmoing. You'd be like, just let me send you $10.

[Kate Berlant]

I go. I get a cocktail. I go, that's it. But really fun.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

50 off.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, that's huge.

[George Severis]

50% off of an already hairy cheap fee. Like, if so fun, I maybe shouldn't even be, like, advertising this, but, like, you know, did it because Theta's premiere party was there, and it was exactly what my party was. Like. They. They did past, you know, chicken tenders and stuff, and I was like, wait, this is fab. Like, you just, like, j it up a tiny bit, and it's like, high, low.

[Sam Taggart]

No, that was so cute.

[Kate Berlant]

Delicious, too delicious, actually. I didn't have one, but I heard. But I've had one in the past.

[Sam Taggart]

It was also fun to see, like, the normal bartender, but, like, in a little bow.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And I was like, this is fun. And he, like, recognizes so many of us because we are God, that's cute.

[George Severis]

It's the only community it's. It's. The only community we have is Julius in New York City.

[Sam Taggart]

That's true.

[George Severis]

That's true. Things are closing left and right. You know, my.

[Kate Berlant]

Everything's closing here.

[George Severis]

First show I ever. First weekly show I ever hosted in Boston ten years ago. Bar closed this week.

[Sam Taggart]

Whoa. Yeah.

[George Severis]

It's all gone.

[Sam Taggart]

It's all gone.

[Kate Berlant]

It's amazing how it's just. It's just. It's gone.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

I'm like, where was your wedding?

[Sam Taggart]

It was at Metropolitan, the gay bar.

[Kate Berlant]

I used to live two doors down.

[Sam Taggart]

Really?

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. In an apartment building that's now leveled, and now it's like, you know, a Foot Locker or whatever.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Because that's where me and my husband met. One night stand, and then the reception was at Bernie's.

[Kate Berlant]

Oh, cute. That's so fun.

[George Severis]

I mean, we're both very proud of ourselves for having amazing New York weddings.

[Kate Berlant]

Congratulations.

[George Severis]

We don't talk about it enough, but it is the undercurrent of every conversation.

[Kate Berlant]

So where'd you do Sarah at Met.

[Sam Taggart]

In the backyard of Metro.

[George Severis]

It was really, really beautiful because it.

[Sam Taggart]

Was like, 5:00pm okay, great. Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

How late did you go?

[George Severis]

How did the whole thing go?

[Sam Taggart]

Until, like, 11. And then went to, like, a bar afterwards, but, you know, to Trickle off.

[George Severis]

Okay.

[Kate Berlant]

That's fun.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And you did Outro Altro for ceremony and dinner and then Julius Raptor Party. I also highly recommend Ultra for events.

[Kate Berlant]

What would you do if you were in la? What's the version? What's the equivalent?

[George Severis]

I don't know about that. I don't know about that.

[Kate Berlant]

That's on me. That's on me.

[George Severis]

I'm like the Getty Lakma Outdoors. Outdoors at lacma.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

The Beverly Hilton where the Golden Globes were. Oh, that'd be in that ceremony.

[Sam Taggart]

Chateau.

[George Severis]

Chateau. Oh, my God. I went to Chateau last night for the first time in my life. Not interesting. Next topic.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, it's gorgeous.

[George Severis]

It is beautiful.

[Kate Berlant]

I love.

[George Severis]

So is there. Are there like a billion rooms?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Because I went there being like, I'm here for the party. And they were like, which one? And then you had to. And they'd be like, oh, God. At the smaller room here.

[Kate Berlant]

For the Golden Globe weekend.

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

Were you Penthouse?

[George Severis]

Were you. I have no idea what it was called.

[Kate Berlant]

824 party. Yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

Was there Kylie Jenner?

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

Oh, I wasn't invited. I had to text someone.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you were close.

[George Severis]

I got in.

[Sam Taggart]

Honey, he got in.

[Kate Berlant]

Great.

[Sam Taggart]

Should we do our first segment? Yes, introduce it, George.

[George Severis]

Okay. Okay. Our first segment is called Straight Shooters. And in this segment we're going to ask you a series of rapid fire A or B questions. You have to choose one or the other to gauge your familiarity with and complicity and straight culture. The one rule is you can't ask any questions about how the game works.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. Kate. Having your name on the list or feeling some shame after your tryst?

[Kate Berlant]

A.

[George Severis]

Sorry, my so called life or I can't operate. I'm a doctor and that is my wife.

[Sam Taggart]

A wondering why me? Or uncovering dried pee, A single and.

[George Severis]

Fabulous or C as nefarious didn't even.

[Kate Berlant]

Have to hear B turning it all.

[Sam Taggart]

Around or yearning for a new sound.

[George Severis]

A overnight oats or Oprah's the Goat.

[Sam Taggart]

A B Gatorade or Gay for pay.

[George Severis]

A Lord of the Rings or a Bada Bing B. Wow.

[Kate Berlant]

How'd I do?

[Sam Taggart]

It was an interesting approach.

[George Severis]

I liked it.

[Sam Taggart]

I mean, the A or B thing.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Usually people repeat you said A or B why Said you're gonna be as a series of questions like A or B and you pick one.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

And so usually people feel compelled to say the thing, but I'm not saying you did it wrong. No, that just was a choice. It was a very like, serious kind of AI like ones and zeros choice, which I don't expect from you. I think of you as more artist.

[Sam Taggart]

It was definitely a bit bought.

[George Severis]

It was a bit.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

You were. You were giving bot.

[Sam Taggart]

You were giving bot.

[Kate Berlant]

I went away.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah. Did you feel yourself disappear in that? Were you like, I wish I had my personality again?

[Kate Berlant]

Well, when you said no questions, then I felt free.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Well, it's a way for us to, like, it's evil because we're doming our guest by. We're like, basically showing off by being like, look, we can do rhymes.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And then you want to say something funny and you can't. Like, there's nothing you can say that will, like. Yes.

[Kate Berlant]

Sam, did you say see a nefarious. What was that one?

[George Severis]

Sia is nefarious. The singer, Sia.

[Kate Berlant]

What was the first. Yeah, I know that's the first one.

[George Severis]

Was single and fabulous. It doesn't really rhyme.

[Kate Berlant]

Okay. Yeah, I had. Where's my shirt? I had a single and fabulous Carrie Bradshaw shirt. It was amazing of her. An illustration.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, that's lovely.

[Kate Berlant]

Is that an every outfit thing? It has to be in every outfit.

[George Severis]

Probably, Probably. Probably.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, that makes sense.

[Kate Berlant]

Where'd I get that?

[George Severis]

Okay, every outfit. Sorry, go ahead.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I want to talk about. I know we. This has been brought up a million times, but I'm like, when is Sia gonna be freed from Kathy Griffin?

[George Severis]

I don't.

[Kate Berlant]

I don't think we know who's holding who.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Really?

[Sam Taggart]

Because it's literally like every single video she posted, it's like an Sia saying, and it's like, no, at some point it'd be more notable when she didn't say, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

I wonder what Kathy Griffin would have to do to lose me. I. Every day I love her more. I literally wake up and I say, thank God for Kathy Griffin.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm watching.

[George Severis]

There are so few people. Every single time a post from her comes up, I have to stop myself before being like, love you.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, Well, I often just want to, like, send you the link and be like, what do you think of this?

[George Severis]

I know, I know, because it is.

[Sam Taggart]

Always like, what's going on over there?

[George Severis]

I love her.

[Sam Taggart]

Have you been. Have you been to one of the salons?

[Kate Berlant]

No, actually, I haven't been invited to a salon.

[George Severis]

It's interesting. You haven't been invited to me.

[Kate Berlant]

I met her at a party. Very sweet, but we've never chatted.

[George Severis]

She did the podcast and, well, we can't get into it. People were mad because she said, vote blue, no matter who.

[Kate Berlant]

Oh, my God. Funny.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

We can't hold that against her.

[George Severis]

Come on.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Anyway, that was. No, I. There are a few people like that. For whatever reason, Luann is like that for me. I don't know. Do you care about that at all? No. No.

[Sam Taggart]

That's fair.

[Kate Berlant]

I watched.

[George Severis]

Who is like that for you And.

[Kate Berlant]

New York Season one.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm not a. I haven't watched in, like, five years, but for whatever reason, New York is the one that, like, stuck with me.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

What are your people that are like that?

[Sam Taggart]

One thing that I'm obsessed with that's kind of on the same page as that is Bimini Bamboo Lash from RuPaul's Driver Season 2. She is just like, I follow.

[George Severis]

She doesn't know about that.

[Sam Taggart]

I follow this. Well, finally we can talk about something.

[Kate Berlant]

No one else knows about. I'm like, Franzen.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, she's someone with, like, was so genius on the show. And then you, like, follow her on social media for, like, five years now, and you're like, I know so much about you.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And it's someone who, like, keeps having journeys, and you're like, how many journeys can one person have? Like, it's like, I actually went through a lot this year, and I'm like, really? Because you also went through a lot last year.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And at some point, I really want someone to just be like, actually, I'm not going to.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, now I'm stable.

[George Severis]

It would be so radical if someone was like, this year was kind of normal.

[Kate Berlant]

I've had two instances in the last, like, like, three weeks or so. What do you do in this? Okay. Running to someone that you kind of barely know. How are you? I'm okay. How are you? Or something.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

So I said that just today, someone. I was like. I was like, I'm okay. Like. And I go, that sounds bad. Literally. Oh, that's bad. I go, okay. Same thing happened maybe two weeks ago. Someone said, how are you? And I was like, I'm okay. And they went, are you really okay, though?

[George Severis]

That's. That actually feels very LA to me.

[Sam Taggart]

That does feel.

[Kate Berlant]

What is that?

[Sam Taggart]

It's like. It's like, why aren't you lying to me?

[Kate Berlant]

You have to smile because, by the way, I've asked people, how are you? Because this is just the way. This is what we do in culture.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

Really good. Well, that's like, can you imagine? So it's not it's not a real question. And that's the common agreement. We all know that unless you're speaking to someone that you have intimacy with, you're not talking about your life. You're not actually. What?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, so what?

[Kate Berlant]

So what? Is that the.

[George Severis]

To me, the correct response to how are you? Is how are you? Or grab a specific. Just to, like, make. Be, like, amazing. I just got this on sale, literally. Exactly. Because then at least there's a topic of conversation. We can make small talk.

[Kate Berlant]

How about better, now that I'm seeing you? Just anything.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, that's fun.

[Sponsor Voice]

I think.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay. Like, okay is almost like. I can't tell. They're almost scolding you for bringing any negativity.

[Kate Berlant]

I think I said, like. What did I say? I don't know. Like, I was like, I'm good.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, they're sort of like. You're supposed to lie. Like everyone else lies. Like, if you even imply some truth of, like, I'm fine.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

They're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Don't do that to me. Like, essentially emotionally flashing me.

[Kate Berlant]

I said to the person I was like, smart. Because they were like, okay. Or like, they're like, okay, that sounds bad. And I go, no, it's not like, Or. And then they were like. I was like, what am I supposed to say? Kind of hostile.

[George Severis]

I was like, yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

And I don't think it was. Internally I felt hostile, but I don't think that translated. But then they were like. They're like, well, if I'm, like, doing well, like, I do say good.

[George Severis]

And I was like, oh, my God.

[Sam Taggart]

They're like, police.

[Kate Berlant]

Wait, police.

[Sam Taggart]

Get her.

[Kate Berlant]

I know.

[George Severis]

Scary. Something about la. Here I go. There's something about LA where.

[Kate Berlant]

Oh, no, I want to hear about it. I have LA blindness.

[George Severis]

Well, because you're from here, but lived.

[Kate Berlant]

In New York for 10.

[George Severis]

Fine.

[Kate Berlant]

Call it nine. Never said I was leaving. Never did a goodbye party.

[Sam Taggart]

Really?

[Kate Berlant]

I go, I'm not leaving.

[Sam Taggart]

You know.

[George Severis]

You're gonna go. You. You're gonna go back? Like, when? You're constantly.

[Kate Berlant]

Sooner than that.

[George Severis]

Well, no.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

You'll visit. You want to move back.

[Kate Berlant]

Visiting constantly. I don't know. One day, I've always said. But I can't. My parents are here. You know, until I'm an orphan. Which is never gonna happen, right?

[George Severis]

No, not to you. What was I saying? Oh, L.A. okay. Because people are fake. No, it's actually. It's actually weirdly the opposite.

[Kate Berlant]

Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Because people don't have real jobs and don't read the news bear with me, not my community. Then they spend all their brain power on analysis of everyday normal things. And that is where we get wellness culture. That is where we get, like, attention to beauty and appearance. That is where we get exactly what you're describing, where you're suddenly overanalyzing. How are you? Fine. How are you? Okay. Do you know what I mean? I think that energy would otherwise be going to, you know, like, cultivate, like, you know, reading the news, community activism, getting the big account at work.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Does this translate at all?

[Kate Berlant]

I hear what you're saying. Yeah.

[George Severis]

It's obviously wildly offensive to you and your community.

[Kate Berlant]

No, I hear. I hear. I hear what you're saying.

[George Severis]

And I think that it, like, even just like erewhon culture, it's like, okay, so we're taking something normal, which is grocery shopping.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

How robust can we make it? Like, what if it takes up the entire day?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Creating errands for you to do to avoid the greater.

[Kate Berlant]

The errand world. Thing is, I remember when getting gas.

[Sam Taggart]

Felt like, oh, it's on the to do list.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

Like, yeah.

[George Severis]

It sounds so. At first, what I'm saying sounds, like, offensive. It's like I'm calling people stupid or something. But it actually is the opposite of that because it's like, how amazingly human to take these simple things and make the most of them.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Like the. A simple women's work.

[Kate Berlant]

George.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[George Severis]

Small talk. Grocery shopping. Yeah. Maintenance, health.

[Kate Berlant]

The weather.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

Just the beautiful day.

[George Severis]

Yeah. And that's your entire life. You're never actually. There's no destination. That's like the office.

[Kate Berlant]

It's slippery. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

But the. How are you still. I'm still sort of confused on why they're taking so much offense. Like, I.

[Kate Berlant]

Okay. Do you want me to get into it? You know what I mean? Like, it's. It's so.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Like what? Like, how did that interaction.

[Kate Berlant]

I guess people do that, you know?

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

People. I have had that happen.

[George Severis]

People do that.

[Kate Berlant]

People kind of do go. I'm just like, they. They do want to reveal.

[George Severis]

But do you ever do that? Like, if you are in a bad place, but not.

[Kate Berlant]

I mean, but. But just with someone. I don't know.

[George Severis]

Right.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I have something. Sometimes I think one of the most conversationally weak things I can ever do is to just be like, so what's new?

[Kate Berlant]

Oh, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

When I do that, I'm like, wow, I am at the bottom.

[Kate Berlant]

And we've all been there. And that's okay. And that's human. And so that's why we give grace to when they do that. Because we go, I've been there too. I've been scared.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, we're basically being like, do you have a topic?

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, I know. They go, I don't know. It's. It's totally fair.

[Sam Taggart]

It's just like, that is really like. It's pulling a cord and being like, help, somebody help me. And then when they can't think of something to say, it's just like, yeah, that's sort of why we're here. Neither of us have anything. How do we possibly connect? And then I had an experience where I was like, what's new? They had nothing. And then they were like, I saw you post about this. What was that?

[Kate Berlant]

Like, there we go.

[Sam Taggart]

And I was like, oh, we are struggling so hard.

[Kate Berlant]

I know.

[Sam Taggart]

It is like, what happened? Why can't we connect?

[George Severis]

But you know the Tina Fey thing, which is just like, say, congratulations.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, that's amazing. Yeah, that's the classic la.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, that's really funny.

[George Severis]

If you just say congratulations to someone in LA, there was like an 80% chance they'll be like, thank you.

[Kate Berlant]

That's really funny.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I found that people, bossy pants.

[George Severis]

You should check it out after you're done with the Franzen.

[Kate Berlant]

I own it.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, honey, we've all got copies. I definitely do. That was like one of the first things I noticed here is that conversationally everyone, if you're like, oh, I moved into a new apartment. The people are like, congrats. It's like, that's not really congratulations.

[George Severis]

Okay, but don't you think that relates to what I'm saying? It's like simple things in life are occasions for like, either celebration or mourning. Like.

[Sam Taggart]

But I even think it's because of like, this town is achievement based.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. Like, it's like, what are you getting? What are you getting? And it's so everything. You have to frame it as an achievement or it doesn't count.

[George Severis]

Wow.

[Kate Berlant]

There's no private. There's no. Because the sun is good.

[George Severis]

The sun is everything.

[Kate Berlant]

So there's nothing to. To hide. And there's nowhere to hide. So. Yeah.

[George Severis]

So what's your straight topic?

[Kate Berlant]

So this was hard and lot ended up on the cutting room floor.

[Sam Taggart]

I can only imagine.

[Kate Berlant]

And you've been doing the show. How long have you been doing the show?

[Sam Taggart]

Five years.

[Kate Berlant]

Congratulations. Yeah, okay, it'll be six years.

[George Severis]

It'll be six years in March.

[Kate Berlant]

Okay, well, there you go. So you've covered a lot. So it's like, where do I go? Where do I go? So I've. Of course, one of the most important things that actually came up to me, one of the most important sources of consideration and comedy and obsession in my life is the wedding. Right, of course, the straight wedding. But the straight wedding. And you've done that a lot, right. You've gone into there. But I wanted to highlight a specific moment in the straight kind of wedding day process, which is the first look, which, to be clear, is the moment. It's a fabricated moment. Well, I guess there is surprise in the sense that. Right. You're not supposed to see each other before the ceremony until actually you see each other at the first look. So the wedding photographer, she's waiting. Bride comes out, groom comes out. They're facing away from each other now. They turn and they have that confrontation, that essential confrontation. And there's so much in that. There's such a dense moment. It's such a dense performance. Yes, there's a lot going on. There's a first look is. And those are the photos that, I guess, ostensibly. And then. You always want to see the husband cry, by the way. The husband better be crying.

[Sam Taggart]

Right? Well, he has to.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. So I, like. So the husband's crying. She's like. Yeah, this is.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, because she's like, this is the.

[George Severis]

Best I'll ever look.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, it's behind him, waiting and, like, looking at his back. And then.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, of course, the tap. Sorry, I forgot. Then he turns around and the tap. That's. Isn't that interesting.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm here.

[Kate Berlant]

So that's not a real tap. Because it's happened.

[George Severis]

I'm, like, gonna cry.

[Kate Berlant]

No, it's a lot. It's a lot.

[George Severis]

I don't know about this.

[Kate Berlant]

Well, you don't know about this.

[George Severis]

I mean, I.

[Sam Taggart]

For social media.

[George Severis]

Is it the tap I've never heard of first look, I'm. I'm realizing I. I'm aware of the tap I've never heard of. And the video, like the social media element I haven't quite heard of, I guess.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, imagine like sort of an AI generated song about love that's really sweeping and grand playing over it.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like. Because then the. They time it where, like the moment she turns around, it's like Benson Boone blasting in the background. And it's, like, supposed to be, like, so emotional.

[George Severis]

All right, psychoanalytically, what's happening here? Because it's like you're meant to be, you know, what your wife looks like. What you are shocked by is her glam.

[Kate Berlant]

Right, right, right, right.

[George Severis]

Right.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, just at this normal level.

[George Severis]

Literally, the makeup artist did amazing.

[Kate Berlant]

And do we really think he hasn't seen the dress? Are people really going, you can't see the dress?

[George Severis]

I think literally, I do think people are going, that.

[Kate Berlant]

Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Because also, he's like, I don't really care.

[George Severis]

Well, this is the. This is the other thing.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, she's like, give me a moment where you care.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yes.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Because also, the dress means more.

[Kate Berlant]

Never getting it again. No, she's never getting. She's never going. Date night. Honey, what's taking so long? It's not coming. Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[Kate Berlant]

I wish, by the way, you might get a. You look great. But, like, you might get like a.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, that's nice.

[Kate Berlant]

You might get like a. Yeah, but I ran into.

[George Severis]

I ran into. This is relevant to what you're saying. I ran this to the comedian Rachel Feinstein last night. Great. Legendary New York.

[Kate Berlant]

Great.

[George Severis]

She told me. I said, you know, how's your night going?

[Kate Berlant]

Married to a fireman.

[George Severis]

Sorry.

[Kate Berlant]

Married to a fireman.

[George Severis]

Yeah. So she. She goes, I sent my husband a photograph of myself in my gown. And he thumbs up, reacted icon. This is exactly what we're talking about.

[Kate Berlant]

It's like, don't go. There's no water in that.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, yeah, here's what I. I want gay guys to do it for Halloween where they, like, tap reveal the costume.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah, That's. By the way. That'll go.

[Sam Taggart]

It's like, I'm actually the woman from Misery.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

I'm Nicole Scherzinger with a blonde.

[Kate Berlant]

It's. It's like, there's no. By the way. Can you imagine being filmed where your job. If you're the guy, your job is be surprised, be shocked. So. Poor thing. Right. Well, like, the pressure. So the. So any actual. By the way.

[George Severis]

Some of them.

[Kate Berlant]

But can an emotional reaction exist? Sure.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

Like. Yeah, you're still going like, I'm a wife, I love her. But. And then. Sorry, I'm just. There's nothing to say. I'm just overwhelmed by.

[George Severis]

Here's what's. What's complicated to me is, like, the person who. I'm speaking in very broad terms, the person who cares about the dress, the hair, the makeup, even the wedding is the woman. Traditionally. Traditionally. So basically, run.

[Kate Berlant]

If he gets.

[George Severis]

He's gay. So basically, what the woman is wanting is for him to act excited about these things she has worked hard to get.

[Kate Berlant]

Exactly. And it should actually be the swan. It should be a mirror. It should be. She can't see herself.

[Sam Taggart]

Exactly.

[Kate Berlant]

It Actually is. And she goes, he's gonna see me the way I wanna. No, he's not gonna see me.

[George Severis]

It needs to be enough that you see yourself this way.

[Kate Berlant]

Just be. It should be the swan. It should be. It should be the cloth dropping down over the mirror.

[Sam Taggart]

That's amazing. Yeah. I have to tell you guys something that I'm worried to say out loud because you did a first look. No, no.

[George Severis]

Can you imagine?

[Sam Taggart]

That would be so funny. I think this is gonna shatter some things and maybe make you nauseous. I've been starting to get fed these videos where it's like prank videos where it's the groom and he gets tapped. Turns around, it's his fucking boy in a wedding dress. It's his fucking best man in a wedding dress. And he goes, oh, my God, you got me.

[Kate Berlant]

That is crazy as a first look. Like he thinks it's gonna be the wife.

[Sam Taggart]

And guess what? It's his best man in a wedding dress.

[Kate Berlant]

Wow. That's brand new. I haven't seen that.

[Sam Taggart]

And I've seen.

[Kate Berlant]

That's gotta be. Last four months.

[Sam Taggart]

I got fed, like, seven of these.

[George Severis]

They just launched it.

[Kate Berlant]

Whoa.

[Sam Taggart]

And I was truly like, is this AI? Like, is this real? Who's actually.

[George Severis]

Well, in many senses. Yes. Like, it's the AI within. Like, yeah, you are. That is something an AI would think. And we already think, like, AI.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

It really was just so bleak because it combines, like, prank culture, sort of gender essentialism.

[George Severis]

Yep.

[Sam Taggart]

And the look.

[George Severis]

And literally trans bathroom panic.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Like, I'm not kidding. No.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

So.

[Sam Taggart]

So just like, anytime you think it's even the normal thing is bad, there's always like, ten things worse.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. Here's a beef. The funny version of that. Tap, tap. It's his mother.

[George Severis]

Oh, that would be genius.

[Kate Berlant]

And that's the wedding. Like that. That's.

[George Severis]

The other thing with. What you're describing is really crying. It is quite literally making fun of and debasing the wife. It's literally saying, yes, exactly. Like, I'll do this for you because you're stupid and want it.

[Kate Berlant]

But face always. I go, don't put cake in her face. Cake in the face. You can finally. There can actually be public violence.

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[Kate Berlant]

That. That's. You know, that's cosigned in.

[Sam Taggart]

Everyone let out some steam.

[Kate Berlant]

Are people still doing cake in the face?

[George Severis]

That's domestic.

[Sam Taggart]

Still doing cake in the face violence. It's like one of those things where you think because we live in a bubble, that everyone knows this is violence.

[Kate Berlant]

I Know, and then.

[Sam Taggart]

But we are. Our bubble is like metal. Like people.

[Kate Berlant]

I love my bubble.

[Sam Taggart]

I love my bubble.

[Kate Berlant]

I'm never leaving.

[George Severis]

I don't want to. You'd be surprised because as people get older and have children, sometimes the bubble is sort of becomes rotten from within. You start. You go to your friend's house, you say, what is your address? The zip code is bubble. You get there on the bubble.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

There's actually a smaller bubble inside the bubble. Kind of like when Sandy and SpongeBob is wearing.

[Kate Berlant]

Never saw a single frame, but yeah.

[George Severis]

So she's a squirrel.

[Sam Taggart]

She's a squirrel.

[George Severis]

And she lives underwater, so she has to have.

[Kate Berlant]

That's so sweet.

[George Severis]

It's really sweet, actually. Actually, you should watch a spongebob.

[Kate Berlant]

No, I hear it's fabulous.

[George Severis]

I truly hear it's amazing out of it.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

That's so shocking.

[George Severis]

No, the bubble. But it really. It's like. You think we've all done such a good job. We have our shifts. Who cleans the. Who cleans the side of the bubble? Who does the windows? And then suddenly someone you know comes home and is like, I got a new pair of capris, and they're from. You know. And then it's over.

[Sam Taggart]

More and more, of course, I'm feeling isolated. As we. As we age, you, like, are like. Well, we all have the existence exact same opinions all around. And then I will meet someone, and they're like, I'm just like you, except I have all different opinions. That doesn't sit right.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Because how did you do that? Because we have the same life. Pretty much.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Freaks me out.

[George Severis]

So are you gonna.

[Sam Taggart]

So are you gonna do a first look?

[George Severis]

First look? Do you think?

[Kate Berlant]

Probably.

[George Severis]

And you're in an LGBTQ relationship, so what's that gonna be like?

[Kate Berlant]

I know how to. Well, by the way, the wedding thing, it's like, queering the wedding. Right.

[George Severis]

But by the way, I have an.

[Kate Berlant]

Hour on this commit to ritual for once. Right. But it's like, how. I don't know, like, the wedding. It's. You know, I think. I think we have to punctuate. These are the things that punctuate our lives that give meaning. Stressful.

[George Severis]

And now we start stressful.

[Kate Berlant]

But here's what's just.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, yeah. I mean, that's.

[George Severis]

If you don't think that. If you don't think that there are people that. It has gone completely unacknowledged. Our friendship is simply not what it was before.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And of course, there's a part of me in my mind that's like. I promise. You were second runner up. Like, you. You were right.

[Kate Berlant]

Come on. Not at all.

[George Severis]

If one more person had canceled, you would have been there and you. And you know what I mean? But what am I gonna do? Say that to someone?

[Kate Berlant]

No one canceled.

[George Severis]

No, people actually do cancel.

[Sam Taggart]

People do cancel.

[Kate Berlant]

Really? Oh, people cancel at the last minute.

[George Severis]

I mean, and also, people in our community talk about, we'll just not show up. Plus, or they'll, like, be like, can I come? Like, is it definitely tonight?

[Kate Berlant]

Just the other day, saw a name card of someone I knew they weren't coming. Mad at that person from afar. How'd you let them get. How'd you let them get to this point? People.

[George Severis]

To get to the name correct.

[Sam Taggart]

People in our community.

[George Severis]

No, it's crazy.

[Sam Taggart]

I'm expanding it from New York before I was New York. People in New York don't respect weddings. People in our community don't respect weddings.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

They're like, oh, a comedy show. Yeah. No, this is different.

[Kate Berlant]

How many people? Because, like, okay, if I have a wedding, I have a huge family. I have 40 people that have to be invited.

[Sam Taggart]

Is that true?

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. Yeah. Or else. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. Spanish. Oh, yeah. So I have 40 relatives that. So all.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And they all have to come.

[George Severis]

There's no. And then presumably your partner also has a family.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. Not as big as mine.

[George Severis]

Yeah. Well, this is the thing. And. And, yeah, it's. It will ruin your life.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And also the other thing is there are sort of. People also exist in groups. There was a point in my wedding planning where I was like, I could either invite these eight gay guys.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Or these eight college friends.

[Kate Berlant]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

And that is if I invite three from this one and three from this one. Everyone's upset.

[Kate Berlant]

Oh, my God.

[George Severis]

And I did go, ultimately gay guys for that choice. And it's like, you look at those eight gay guys, two of them. Well, I don't know.

[Kate Berlant]

Texts. Yeah.

[George Severis]

No, it's just, you know, it's more. It's so much more complicated than you can even imagine.

[Kate Berlant]

Oh, my God.

[George Severis]

And you end up. And then you're. You're in it. You're in it, you're in it. And then you come out, you're like, oh, I guess I didn't invite the person I love the most.

[Kate Berlant]

Oh, my God.

[George Severis]

Because it didn't make sense. Like, the person I literally would text if I, like, was in a crisis just because they weren't part of a group. Like, it just didn't make sense.

[Sam Taggart]

I have full on, like, Trauma still from that guest list. Because now when I have, like, any little gathering, I'm like. I get back into that. Like, I'm like, okay, so these four will get along. These four will.

[Kate Berlant]

Did you have fights? Or maybe not fights, but was there. Attention. Hard conversations with your. With your husband? They were hard conversations because I would imagine that's. You go there, you don't even know them.

[George Severis]

I know. Yes. Yes. It's like, actually, Matthew kept being like that with my college friends. He was like, I haven't even heard of them. I'm like, they're my. Yeah, it was before we met. Like, they're my college friends.

[Kate Berlant]

Totally.

[George Severis]

Like, you don't even hang out with them. Like, that's not what it's about.

[Kate Berlant]

How many. What was the final guest list count for both of you?

[Sam Taggart]

Like, 155.

[George Severis]

Really?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Oh, wait, no, no. Mine was not 150. Mine was 120. So not that much more than yours.

[Sam Taggart]

But I also didn't. I got to get away with not inviting all family.

[George Severis]

So. Because my family lives.

[Kate Berlant]

Kid wedding.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Because my family lives abroad. And.

[Sam Taggart]

He can't stop. Peaches was here. He was like, yeah, my sister's in Germany. I was like, no fair. Meanwhile, I'm like, my sister's in D. I guess no one cares.

[George Severis]

I literally had 10 family members, blood relatives from my side. Even though I'm close with my Greek family, I just like, they're not gonna fly.

[Kate Berlant]

No, you can't do it.

[George Severis]

Totally. And that was a huge lifesaver.

[Sam Taggart]

There was even, like a long time where I was like, no, I couldn't possibly get married because of the guest list. Like, it will be impossible.

[Kate Berlant]

Well, honestly, that's kind of where I. Where I am.

[George Severis]

I was about to. I mean, this is all building to.

[Kate Berlant]

No, it's that question. It's. Well, how long have you guys been together?

[George Severis]

Two years? Three years.

[Kate Berlant]

Two and a half. Wisconsin. Private.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, it's la. The sun's shining.

[Kate Berlant]

We can all see. I don't know. We'll see.

[George Severis]

August taking case.

[Kate Berlant]

We'll see. Okay.

[Sam Taggart]

We'll see.

[George Severis]

You're not getting any younger and the.

[Kate Berlant]

Guest list ain't getting any shorter. Well, your career's on the line.

[Sam Taggart]

Literally.

[Kate Berlant]

You go full team zero.

[Sam Taggart]

Zero, zero from the team.

[George Severis]

I think I did. Zero from the team.

[Sam Taggart]

I think that's good.

[George Severis]

But I actually.

[Sam Taggart]

I don't know.

[George Severis]

I. I do wonder. It's like, I don't think these are people.

[Kate Berlant]

Goodbye.

[George Severis]

What?

[Kate Berlant]

Kiss your career goodbye. You're not on their mind.

[George Severis]

Sweetie.

[Kate Berlant]

They go, got it.

[Sam Taggart]

I actually one small judgment of mine is whenever people invite their team to, like, their birthday, I'm like, that's not for them. Like, I, I, I'm always like, oh.

[Kate Berlant]

So you, like, take that.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, you care more about them than us.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Now I have to be like, on guard.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah, totally, totally.

[George Severis]

I. Sorry. I want to go out. I wanted to go deeper into the team thing and I'm just like out of my body listening to someone talk about whether or not inviting your team. You know what I mean?

[Kate Berlant]

Oh, I know, I know.

[George Severis]

I want to go back. I know. Sorry. I zoomed out. And that's on me. I want to go back to. Here's what I'm struggling with. First looks. And this happens a lot with straight topics that people bring. Something is so operatically.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. The theatricality.

[George Severis]

Like, something is so on the nose, I guess is what I'm trying to say. That.

[Kate Berlant]

And now it's nothing to discuss.

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Kate Berlant]

No, no. And that's on me.

[Sam Taggart]

No, no, no, no.

[George Severis]

But that's how, that's how, you know, it's a perfect topic. But it's like, what sort of analysis could I possibly do? This is what I think of when people remember the like 2010s when it was all about, like critiquing basically friends. It was all about being like friends was actually lately homophobic.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

And it's like, so we all know that. And that's the foundation upon which you can just like laugh.

[Kate Berlant]

Yes, yes.

[George Severis]

Like there's actually. You think you're being a genius by pointing out the thing we've all decided to overlook because we're adults.

[Kate Berlant]

Yes, exactly.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, I think what's interesting about this is that it isn't going away. Like, it's almost being. It's like growing.

[George Severis]

It's very like tradition, sorry to say. This trad. Wife coated. Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

Turn to. Because you know what it really is?

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

It's your husband. It's the tap. It's actually being recognized by the state. It's the, it's the turn. Gotcha.

[George Severis]

Eye recognition software.

[Kate Berlant]

And also.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

And like. And like, it's.

[George Severis]

Oh, congrats. You've joined. Clear at the airport.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

I own you now.

[Kate Berlant]

It's the contract.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

You've been pre approved for Tuesday.

[Kate Berlant]

It's the false choice. It's the force choice.

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

Force choice.

[Kate Berlant]

And it's the.

[George Severis]

Well, that's true. Because you have to believe in some sort of surprise. And yet everyone knows exactly what's happening to the extent that there's a photographer there to document it.

[Kate Berlant]

And this is the crisis of the wedding and why I've been obsessed with it forever. Me. We all are. Whatever. But it's like the performance, the theater of it. But can we delight in theater? Of course. Can we be transformed through theater? Yes. Can we actually. Can the mask slip and there's the flesh, and that's the interplay. Right, of course. Just you're not gonna have an authentic, raw experience at something where you've planned, like, yeah, but. Or you can.

[George Severis]

You can.

[Kate Berlant]

You can't. But it's. But how do you do it? I don't know. I mean, imagine me, like. I don't know. It seems very stress. It seems very stressful.

[George Severis]

Well, the theatrical. Yeah. The idea that theatricality is only artificial. It's like calling something performative and being like, checkmate. It's like.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

It's the only way you're saying I'm alive.

[Kate Berlant]

Well, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

It's, of course, a balancing act, like. Yes, it is.

[Kate Berlant]

And that's why it feels so harsh on people. I'm sorry, but I can't do the. Hi, how are you?

[George Severis]

Go.

[Kate Berlant]

We've all agreed this is the theater. This is how we. This is how. This is what we're doing here. We acknowledge each other's humanity, and we can have a nice moment, we can have a nice, pleasant thing, but know the rules. How hard are you?

[George Severis]

Fine. But, of course, if you take that too far, suddenly, you know, you're just following the rules and you're at war.

[Kate Berlant]

And then we're step forward. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Well. And honestly, the. Hi, how are you? Here's something. Sorry this is jumping back, but I'm like, when you go to get a coffee and you're like, hi, how are you? And they're like, good. Like, I almost feel like I'm being condescending.

[Kate Berlant]

I know.

[Sam Taggart]

By being like, how are you? Because it's like. Like, look, I don't see you as an employee. I see you as person. Yeah. Aren't I good?

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

And it's a little like. No, just say, like, I want this. And, like, let me get on with my day.

[Kate Berlant]

You're making me also do. Yeah. It's like, hi, how are you? Because once they all turn. Good to see you. And then you just leave. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Cheers.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

What do you say to the point.

[Kate Berlant]

You have to point out something on their body or that they're holding.

[George Severis]

Yeah. You gain weight or, you know, you.

[Kate Berlant]

Could do you have an eyelash. It's almost. You have an eyelash. Fake eyelash. Oh, it's gone. Oh, like, anything.

[Sam Taggart]

You should get that little checked out.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Did you know you had this.

[Kate Berlant]

We need more tricks to get to.

[George Severis]

Weather that moment completely.

[Sam Taggart]

We need more tricks. Well, you know, I'm not natural with children. My sister has just kids, and I'm like, what am I doing?

[George Severis]

Me too.

[Kate Berlant]

But now there are people.

[Sam Taggart]

They are.

[Kate Berlant]

And some of them I'm not clicking with, and others I am. That's not.

[Sam Taggart]

You know, But I. I've just resorted to being like, I guess I juggle for you guys. Like, and they're like, okay, now that we really respect.

[Kate Berlant]

I did magic tricks recently for a little kid. Heaven for both of us.

[Sam Taggart]

Yes.

[George Severis]

I mean.

[Sam Taggart]

And that's kind of what I need to do.

[Kate Berlant]

No, that's good. That's what you should be doing.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. We need to do more magic tricks.

[George Severis]

I mean, the.

[Sam Taggart]

The.

[George Severis]

The. The lasting joy of peekaboo. Like, to actually do peekaboo to a child and see them being like, I'm gonna die of laughter. Like, it's.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Peekaboo is. It's like playing fetch with a dog. You're like, we're doing it, like, on tv.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Maybe even, like, thinking about babies in. Thinking deeply. Thinking deeply about what is happening, which is that they lack object permanence and they think you're disappearing is, like, so emotional to think about.

[Kate Berlant]

I know. It's really deep.

[Sam Taggart]

That's scary. Now it seems like abuse.

[George Severis]

And the fact that their response is laughter.

[Kate Berlant]

I know.

[George Severis]

They're like, oh, my God. The physical world is so avant garde. I'm, like, laughing about it.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Wow. I will say it's a blessing to be in LGBTQ relationships. And just as a given, not having to do the task, like, I. Yeah. There's some things where it's like, I would be like. Because it's like, you just want everyone to be happy. Like, you're like, do you want to do the tap? We'll do the tap.

[George Severis]

Yeah, but gay guy. But. But.

[Sam Taggart]

But gay guys. It's like, I say, you're not gonna do the tap. Look, I know what you look like.

[George Severis]

Not in our bubble.

[Sam Taggart]

No.

[Kate Berlant]

They're doing the tap.

[George Severis]

They're doing the tap. They're doing the tap. And they're doing stretch fabric, skinny khakis.

[Sam Taggart]

This episode is bubble awareness. This is a bubble awareness app, and I needed it because I've been unaware of the bubble.

[George Severis]

The things. I've said this before. If you want to feel insane. Google gay men wedding suits.

[Kate Berlant]

Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

We're talking one turquoise, one purple.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

I'm not kidding.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

It's because, I don't know, at some point we wanted inspiration. Like, what are people doing? It's shocking the things that are happening. I mean, it's like to say the taste level is less than a straight wedding is, to put it mildly. It's less than, you know, a drag performance in Minneapolis.

[Kate Berlant]

One of my favorite weddings that I've only seen, that I've seen on Instagram is the owner of Tao, who married a Pilates instructor that I used to subscribe to on a monthly basis. And Melissa, if you're watching. It's not that I just. But they got married at Tao. I mean, I assume it's Tao. It's a Tao. Tao. Palm beach something.

[George Severis]

Oh, okay. I've been to New York anyway.

[Kate Berlant]

This is. There's nothing. Just check it out.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, just like, what was the dress like?

[Kate Berlant]

Lace, like, embroider, like, like, like fishtail down to the, you know, train?

[George Severis]

And then. Because it's tap sushi everywhere.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. And there's sushi all over. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God.

[Kate Berlant]

But congrats. You guys seem to really have figured it out with the wedding stuff. You did good ones.

[George Severis]

No, but the. The suit question. Although I wonder. You know, I'm thinking.

[Kate Berlant]

I have another question for both of you.

[George Severis]

Yeah, please.

[Kate Berlant]

Okay. This doesn't have to be on the show. It's just because I'm just into the wedding stuff. So. Wait, did you. Because crucial. Because I went to another. I've been to a lot of weddings recently.

[George Severis]

Me too. I've been going non stop. We were just at Joel's wedding.

[Kate Berlant]

The classic. Oh, my God. Of course, the classic thing is after the ceremony, cocktail hour. It's going too long. There's not enough food. We're losing steam. What do we do? What do we do? And then, because it's always like, sit down, dinner. Do you have to do it with y species? Right.

[George Severis]

But no, there.

[Sam Taggart]

There is a way to do like you. So you're saying you want like almost extended cocktail hour with just larger past apps.

[Kate Berlant]

I've wondered, do you have to do the sit down?

[Sam Taggart]

You don't have to. You don't have to.

[George Severis]

You don't have to.

[Kate Berlant]

Have you ever been to one that hasn't?

[George Severis]

Mine wasn't sit down.

[Sam Taggart]

That's true.

[George Severis]

But. But so, Paris, here's what mine was.

[Kate Berlant]

Okay.

[George Severis]

Restaurant. The restaurant has. I mean, some people are going to Hear this and be like, that's tacky. Whatever. The restaurant obviously has tables and chairs and. And seats. There were more people than seats. And that was made clear from the beginning. It is a sort of cocktail party. Like, if you get a seat, you can sit. Obviously, everyone prioritized. The older relatives get seats, but then everyone else. It's like, some people were eating at the bar. Some people are eating earlier, some people are eating later. So they. And it was just kind of like.

[Kate Berlant]

The choreography was pretty cool being passed.

[George Severis]

There was a buffet. It was a buffet.

[Kate Berlant]

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

And it sort of worked out, I think.

[Sam Taggart]

And if. And guess what? We're going to Julius later, so you can get more tenders.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So how long were you there at the restaurant? How many hours?

[George Severis]

A while.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, I bet.

[George Severis]

Because the ceremony was also inside the restaurant. We, like, brought a chupa to auction, so. Yeah, I saw pics.

[Kate Berlant]

You think? I'm not hunting for those.

[George Severis]

So I would say, what, like, 8 to 11 or something? I don't know. I don't know why I'm looking at you.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

You literally signed the paperwork. Yeah, yeah. So you could do that.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

I mean, Will, I'm sure some people thought that was bad and, like, talk about it behind her backs, but you can't.

[Kate Berlant]

What, there was a buffet or that there weren't enough?

[George Severis]

I mean, I could see my. I could see a world in which I go to a wedding like, that I suddenly have nowhere to sit, and I'm like, are you kidding me?

[Sam Taggart]

But sometimes I need to sit down, because when I, like, just don't eat enough, if there's, like. If it's, like, unclear when you're supposed to, because I'm like, well, I don't want to do it wrong.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, I was like, I don't want to mess up. And somebody was like, you know, like, I feel like Misha was like, sam, eat. And I was like, right, right, right, right.

[George Severis]

Oh, that's the number one thing people tell you, which is so funny, because that's also what people told me when I did the red carpet. They were like. They're like, you know, like hardened Hollywood types that are like, I've been producing events. Just eat a big meal beforehand. Bring a protein bar on the red carpet. Put it in your blazer pocket. But with the wedding, it is true that you get so distracted. You'll see, when you're a beautiful bride, you get so distracted by everyone accosting you that you forget to. You literally do forget to eat, and you have to remind yourself, like, because you also forget about hunger. You have to remind myself first. Sit, eat. Especially because you're paying for this, like, amazing food.

[Kate Berlant]

Totally, totally.

[Sam Taggart]

Eat up.

[Kate Berlant]

Well, guys, I'm excited. As you know, I'm not engaged.

[George Severis]

I think it's coming.

[Kate Berlant]

I love talking about wedding chat.

[George Severis]

Just like, it's one of our passions to talk, especially now that we've both done it.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

It's. You know. Yeah. It is interesting.

[George Severis]

And you're right that you should submit to ritual. Like.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Don't be. Is it you? I think you're saying converse under wedding dress.

[Kate Berlant]

Oh, yeah. We talk about poo.

[George Severis]

So funny.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. The bride lifting up.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God.

[Kate Berlant]

As if that's going to make her comfortable.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, it's also one of those things where I don't think I did think about it until, I mean, until we reached mid-30s. And then it was like, oh, now this is something we have to think about.

[George Severis]

I know.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, and that.

[George Severis]

Talk about bubble.

[Sam Taggart]

Talk about bubble. Because.

[George Severis]

Yeah, my sister's getting married, and. And she's very young, and I. I actually, like, am very, like, I really love the fiance, and I'm very supportive of the wedding, but she is young, and I'm like, how old? 25.

[Kate Berlant]

That's not young anymore. That's what they do.

[George Severis]

Well, I told my mom. My mom was like, oh, I was 25 when I got married. Right. Happy family, three kids.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Like, all right. Meanwhile, I'm like, in my 30s, marrying a man. I'm the weird one.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

I'm like, what is going on here?

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

They're like, you're breaking every single rule. Like, this is how we've done it for generations.

[Sam Taggart]

What's the corniest wedding thing that you would include in your wedding?

[Kate Berlant]

Good question.

[Sam Taggart]

Sorry to prompt.

[Kate Berlant]

No, I'm trying to think, like, okay, well, I think the thing that is really tough that I. And I don't know the answer, but the aisle.

[George Severis]

Like, you're walking. Walking down the aisle.

[Kate Berlant]

Well, I. I'm never.

[Sam Taggart]

You're dancing down.

[Kate Berlant]

But, like, how do you.

[George Severis]

Well.

[Kate Berlant]

Because. What did you. Did you guys walk together?

[George Severis]

What did you do with our. Oh, what did you do?

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, wait, no, you go first.

[George Severis]

We each walked with our moms.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

That was classic.

[Kate Berlant]

Whatever. Well, then you're fine.

[Sam Taggart]

And we just basically started on stage like it was.

[George Severis]

Which is also because we were sort of like. We were.

[Sam Taggart]

We were breaking the form a little bit, but it was. It was in the background backyard of Metro. It's like, there's not an aisle anyway. And, like, the mic wasn't working. And.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Like, Julio was just like. Okay, come up. Yeah. Okay. Here we are.

[Kate Berlant]

I feel like there isn't even one thing that's, like a corny wedding thing. It's just like having a wedding is like. It's. It's in. Like, it. It's no longer essential. Right.

[George Severis]

But I have one for you. Father daughter dance.

[Kate Berlant]

I can't do it.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I think that.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

I think this is where, like, even people like Sam and me who are. Who respect tradition. That's, like, where we draw the line.

[Kate Berlant]

Well, no, with both. It's utterly bizarre. And I've been to a few. And then. And then with the groom dancing with the mom, and. And it's like, I never got to you. But.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

But maybe now you're gonna get to have sex with someone else. It's, like, very odd.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Quick in the back.

[Kate Berlant]

Strange.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

They could still make it work sometimes.

[Kate Berlant]

But between.

[George Severis]

Paperwork isn't dry.

[Kate Berlant]

Sometimes between the father and the daughter, you see real chemistry.

[George Severis]

Oh, well, I.

[Kate Berlant]

Go get a room. Whatever you thought this was gonna be, it's not. And instead you're like. Like, I'm like. I'm like.

[George Severis]

Well, especially because it happens after the ceremony. That's what's sort of weird about it.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

The message, let's say in a world where it happened before the ceremony, the message could be final dance with the father.

[Kate Berlant]

Right.

[George Severis]

Daughter's now going to the husband. Now what's happening is the ceremony has already happened. And then it's like the father's like, I thought you were rid of me.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

[Sam Taggart]

Dad's last stand.

[George Severis]

Yeah, Dad's last stand.

[Sam Taggart]

How. And wait, what are we doing on time?

[George Severis]

Sorry. Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay, we'll wrap up quickly. What is your relationship to humor in a wedding?

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

That's a really big question.

[Kate Berlant]

Really good question. So this is really hard, being a clown at your own wedding. I mean, it's. Here's the thing. I can drop in. I drop in and get. You know, I'm not like. I can't turn it off. Maybe I am. I don't know.

[Sam Taggart]

But.

[Kate Berlant]

No, but I'm not. I'm not. But. But I really. That's. That's really hard. I don't know. I don't know, because weddings are almost so. I've. I've only been to a couple comedian weddings, and they were handled really beautifully, was really sweet. These people have been together forever, and one wedding, both comedians, and they both. Of course, there were funny moments in the vows, but it wasn't. It was just. It was perfectly done.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

And it was. The main emotion. You want to feel right is just, like, the sweetness of the moment. And you're happy for your friends. Whatever. But straight weddings are humorless. And they're. And they're never right. Or it's like the jokes are never work. I mean. I mean, I'm being hyperbolic, of course.

[Sam Taggart]

No, no.

[George Severis]

But it's like.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, the jokes are often like, doesn't he suck?

[George Severis]

Yes.

[Sam Taggart]

No.

[Kate Berlant]

It's all he said, isn't she a whore? And, yeah. And he's like, I know you're right, I'm wrong, or whatever. It's all that. It's that he's, like, grotesque, and that she's the boss of the house, and I.

[George Severis]

And. And they hate each other. Well, of course, the joke is we hate each other.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

We don't want to do this. We don't like each other shutting between us. There's no connection. We're doing the wedding to force a connection. That's, by the way.

[George Severis]

And it's not working. And you guys can all see it.

[Sam Taggart]

We'll all see that after three kids.

[Kate Berlant]

And in six months, you're gonna be. Yeah. And so it's all. I mean, you know, within. I mean, I don't know. You see me. I'm really struggling.

[Sam Taggart]

I know. I. I'm. I. I stumped. You.

[George Severis]

Poetry reading?

[Kate Berlant]

No.

[Sam Taggart]

A steely.

[Kate Berlant]

I think I'm. I don't. I don't know. I don't know.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

I'm not against. Oh, of course. But when someone starts recite, you're checked out. No one's. You can't hear it. No one can hear it. Right.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Here's. I have a little tip that I actually thought about after my wedding. A way around that. Include a written poem in the program. Anyone can read it in their own time.

[Kate Berlant]

Right there on the front. I love that. And then. Yeah, yeah, totally.

[George Severis]

You can Instagram it, by the way.

[Kate Berlant]

We have a serious issue across most weddings, the AV issues. You cannot hear. There is no. And I was at a funeral recently. Mic's not on. The mic's not on, so we're not hearing it.

[Sam Taggart]

This is.

[Kate Berlant]

This is all it ever is. Can't hear.

[Sam Taggart]

That's tough.

[George Severis]

The only job these event spaces have.

[Kate Berlant]

Is they have to get the sound right. And they can't. They. They cannot.

[Sam Taggart]

That's really tough.

[Kate Berlant]

Really quick.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

So the time. The amount of time between hors d' oeuvres and the Sit down. What's the. Is it an hour?

[George Severis]

I think it has to be an hour.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah. I like.

[Kate Berlant]

Max.

[George Severis]

Also, I think I firmly believe you should get a glass of champagne before the ceremony and have it to sip during the ceremony.

[Kate Berlant]

During this. Okay, so this is divisive.

[George Severis]

Is it really?

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, because you're not.

[George Severis]

Because you're not toasting yet. You mean, like, you need to wait for the wedding to happen?

[Kate Berlant]

I think trays of iced tea, lemonade, really alcoholic spritz.

[George Severis]

Wow.

[Sam Taggart]

This is what. This. We're finding out we're in different bubbles.

[George Severis]

That's crazy.

[Kate Berlant]

I want them present, not drunk. Yeah, we're gonna get drunk.

[Sam Taggart]

Yours was really amazing. They had martinis on trays.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

The moment you arrived, and I was like.

[George Severis]

And we also had a little food.

[Kate Berlant]

8:00Pm yeah, 8:00pm that's nice. That's different, though. That's different than a 5:00pm Here's a. Here's a mojito. Can you imagine?

[George Severis]

Jalapeno margarita.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Severis]

God. Lots to consider.

[Sam Taggart]

Lots to consider.

[George Severis]

Sorry to resort to cliche.

[Sam Taggart]

Again. Not engaged.

[George Severis]

Not engaged. Sorry. I was really mesmerized by that kind of evil eye coaster.

[Sam Taggart]

Yeah, that's nice. They call to you.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Sam Taggart]

Oh, my God.

[George Severis]

Two Webbies. Neither of them are. Sorry. We've never even been nominated.

[Sam Taggart]

Sorry. He was just feeling.

[George Severis]

Yeah, you have to pay. Actually, it's pay to play. Sorry.

[Kate Berlant]

Everything is.

[George Severis]

Everything is. If you ever hear anyone winning a podcast award.

[Sam Taggart]

They bought it.

[George Severis]

They bought it.

[Sam Taggart]

Should we do our final say?

[George Severis]

Yes. But I'm, of course, blinking, of course that you can introduce it.

[Sam Taggart]

So our final segment is called Shout Outs, where we pay homage to the grand street tradition of the radio. Shout out. Shouting out. Anything that we're enjoying. People, places, things, ideas.

[George Severis]

Of course.

[Sam Taggart]

Imagine it's TRL in 2001. You're shouting out to your squad back.

[George Severis]

Home, and we think of them on the spot. Which is why I'm.

[Kate Berlant]

Thank you. Because I also forgot. I know that that was.

[George Severis]

No, no, you don't have to.

[Sam Taggart]

And we will go first.

[George Severis]

We will go first, of course, when we think of one.

[Sam Taggart]

And when we think of one. Okay, I have the most. I'm like, being so hack, loser, flop. But what's up, hacks, losers and flops around the globe? I want to give the most straightforward shout out there is, and that is to the TV show 30 Rock. That's right. I am watching the TV show 30 Rock. And it hits hard. I'm saying, what the heck? This is better than I even remember it is amazing. It is so amazing. Tina Fey is to die for.

[Kate Berlant]

Sure.

[Sam Taggart]

Is there a lot of race stuff? And you're sort of like, why? But at the same time, you're like, hey, it's better to. It's better.

[Kate Berlant]

Brilliant show.

[Sam Taggart]

So shout out to the whole team over there at 30 Rock. They really ate with that one. And it is aging like a fine wine. Xoxo, Sam.

[George Severis]

What's up, cinephiles? I want to give a shout out to the film Hedda, which I recently watched.

[Kate Berlant]

Oh, I might be seeing that this week.

[George Severis]

I think you're gonna love. Yeah, Sapphic.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Kind of retelling of Hedda Gabler. You think it's gonna be, you know, very, like, all female reboot, but it's, I think, a little deeper and campier. There is a. A sight gag that is so broadly funny and almost. Slapstick is not the right word. But it's like, in a serious movie, it goes so full camp that you really like. It's so unexpected and it's so fun and kind of like, it allows you to, like, sort of, like, ease into the material. And I wish I could spoil it, but I won't. Nina Haas is, like, one of the best actresses I've ever seen on screen or stage. And Tessa Thompson is very talented. She's doing an incredibly crazy accent that's kind of halfway between mid Atlantic and British, but it works. It, like, adds to the camp element of. It takes place over the course of one night, which is one of my favorite types of movies or plays. One night only, One night only.

[Sam Taggart]

That's all you need.

[George Severis]

I saw which, by the way, I saw that. And then I saw Sinners. I'm catching up on the movies. Both of them take place over only one night. So there you go, folks. So, yeah, and Tessa Thompson, you know, great actress. I didn't know. I thought she was sort of marvel, but she's actually, like, really talented. And. And so that is my shout out.

[Sam Taggart]

Kate, whenever you're ready.

[Kate Berlant]

Jonathan Franzen, the correction. I. You know, what I watched the other day, which I have been. That I've been pretending to love for years, but had never actually watched it.

[George Severis]

Margaret, the Kenneth Lonergan, literally best movie ever.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, it's one of the best movies ever made. And so I had been hearing about this movie for. For a million years.

[George Severis]

I've been telling Sam about it.

[Sam Taggart]

I've never heard this word in my life.

[George Severis]

You have.

[Sam Taggart]

And George is gaslighting me once again.

[Kate Berlant]

And it's exceptional. And I. I mean, I'M you know, I love his films, but my God.

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kate Berlant]

And Anna Pacquiaoan in that.

[George Severis]

Jason Cameron.

[Kate Berlant]

Oh, of course. Well, everyone. I mean, it's just. It's.

[George Severis]

It's beyond Jeannie Berlin.

[Kate Berlant]

It's. Oh, my God. No, no. It's stacked, but it's a beautiful. They don't make them like that.

[George Severis]

They do not.

[Kate Berlant]

And I didn't. I wasn't aware of the lure around it, around the editing and. Okay, yeah, so there's a. There's a lot to check out after you watch it. But it's tracker's cup. Yeah, yeah. Director's cut. Yeah. Well, we've never seen it not theatrical.

[George Severis]

We're gonna do. Let's do. I'm saying it now. Patreon movie episode. We're gonna do Margaret.

[Sam Taggart]

Okay.

[Kate Berlant]

Oh, fun. Yeah. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Okay. Well, Kate, where can people find you? You're not on Instagram.

[Sam Taggart]

But you are.

[Kate Berlant]

I am. I'm just trying to not engage. But please go there. Check it out.

[Sam Taggart]

Follow my page.

[Kate Berlant]

Yeah, yeah. Follow my page. I have a podcast called Poog. Well, is it Berlant Novak? Poog and the Handle Still Poog podcast.

[Sam Taggart]

Well, this has been a delight. Thank you so much for doing the pod.

[Kate Berlant]

Thank you for having me.

[George Severis]

Bye.

[Sam Taggart]

Bye.

[George Severis]

Podcast ends now for our visual learners. You can watch full video episodes on our YouTube channel and subscribe to our.

[Sam Taggart]

Patreon for two extra episodes a month.

[George Severis]

At patreon.com Stradiolab Stradiolab is a production.

[Sam Taggart]

By Will Ferrell's Big Money players network.

[George Severis]

And iHeart podcasts, created and hosted by me, George Severis and Sam Taggart, executive.

[Sam Taggart]

Produced by Jenna Cagle, co produced by.

[George Severis]

Becca Ramos, edited by Lauren Stumpf and mixed and mastered by Doug Bain.

[Sam Taggart]

Artwork by Michael Fails and Matt Grubb. Theme music by Ben Kling.

[Kate Berlant]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.