"Weightlifting" w/ Gianmarco Soresi

Summary

StraightioLab Episode Summary: "Weightlifting" with Gianmarco Soresi

Release Date: May 20, 2025
Hosts: George Civeris and Sam Taggart
Guest: Gianmarco Soresi
Description: In this episode, hosts George Civeris and Sam Taggart, alongside guest Gianmarco Soresi, delve into the intricate relationship between weightlifting and straight culture. They explore how this activity intersects with notions of masculinity, societal expectations, and the nuances that differentiate straight and gay approaches to fitness.

---

1. Introduction to Weightlifting as a Cultural Phenomenon ([36:23] - [36:47])

The episode kicks off with an introduction to weightlifting, highlighting its perception as a predominantly straight activity. Matt Rogers sets the stage by stating:

"Weightlifting is something I've dabbled in, and it definitely feels like a mix. One of those territories where it's like, it's straight, but it's gay."
— Matt Rogers [36:23]

2. Weightlifting and Masculinity ([36:48] - [40:16])

The discussion delves into how weightlifting serves as a means for straight men to engage physically while maintaining their heterosexual identity. Trey Farrow adds:

"I think it's a very straight space. And honestly, spotting is where I'm out. Like when someone's like, can you spot me? I'm like, no, no, no, no, no."
— Trey Farrow [37:01]

Bowen Yang contrasts this by explaining the motivations behind gay men’s approach to weightlifting:

"For gay guys, it is so tied up with, like, issues around masculinity and reacting to being called effeminate or being called girlish and being like, well, I'll show you. I'll become even bigger than the man."
— Bowen Yang [37:29]

3. Societal Implications and the Straight-Gay Dichotomy ([40:17] - [44:54])

The conversation shifts to the broader societal implications of weightlifting as a cultural practice. Matt Rogers shares his experiences at Fire Island, illustrating the intense focus on physique among straight men:

"I went to Fire Island for a day. Jay Jurden brought me around. He was like, look, the gym upon arrival was the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life."
— Matt Rogers [37:39]

Trey Farrow and Matt Rogers discuss how muscle culture reflects deeper societal values and the pressures men face regarding physical appearance.

4. The Intersection of Weightlifting and the Manosphere ([44:55] - [54:17])

The hosts explore how weightlifting has been co-opted by movements like the manosphere and Silicon Valley, linking physical fitness to notions of self-optimization and masculinity. Bowen Yang remarks:

"It's like health-oriented. And for other guys, but in a different way, not for sex, but just... competition, competition, non-sexual competition in bonding."
— Bowen Yang [48:53]

Matt Rogers adds insights on how prominent figures like Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos embody the modern shift towards valuing physical fitness as a status symbol:

"Being ripped is starting to be meaningless in a weird way because you can just buy it. But it has cultural cache."
— Matt Rogers [52:11]

5. Personal Experiences and Anecdotes ([54:18] - [61:51])

The guest, Gianmarco Soresi, shares his personal journey with weightlifting, highlighting the emotional and social complexities involved. He recounts:

"I asked a friend of mine from college, a gay guy, and I said to him, I have prance around in my underwear in general, I'm just an underwear guy. I'm a nudist if I'm alone. And I said to him, I'm in good shape. Right? And he didn't say anything. And I went to my room and I cried."
— Matt Rogers [73:03]

This anecdote underscores the internal conflicts many men face when navigating fitness culture and personal identity.

6. Broader Reflections on Culture and Future Directions ([61:52] - [85:40])

The episode concludes with reflections on how weightlifting and related cultural practices fit into the larger societal shifts. The hosts discuss the implications of cancel culture, the evolving landscape of comedy within progressive movements, and the future of masculinity in public spaces.

Bowen Yang summarizes:

"Realizing how things come in waves. Like, just realizing the conversations about Wokeism and DEI are the same exact conversations that were happening about political correctness and affirmative action in the 90s, just with different terms."
— Bowen Yang [57:44]

Gianmarco Soresi emphasizes the importance of creating safe spaces for men to express vulnerability without compromising their heterosexual identity.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Trey Farrow [37:01]: "I think it's a very straight space. And honestly, spotting is where I'm out. Like when someone's like, can you spot me? I'm like, no, no, no, no, no."

• Bowen Yang [37:29]: "For gay guys, it is so tied up with, like, issues around masculinity and reacting to being called effeminate or being called girlish and being like, well, I'll show you. I'll become even bigger than the man."

• Matt Rogers [39:47]: "You know what I mean? It's very desexual."

• Matt Rogers [52:11]: "Being ripped is starting to be meaningless in a weird way because you can just buy it. But it has cultural cache."

• Matt Rogers [73:03]: "I have a joke about how women be shopping was like an old thing, but sometimes I'm out with my girlfriend shopping and I'm like, they really do be."

Conclusion:

In this episode of "StraightioLab," George Civeris and Sam Taggart, with guest Gianmarco Soresi, offer a nuanced examination of weightlifting within straight culture. They uncover the complex interplay between physical fitness, societal expectations of masculinity, and the subtle ways in which straight and gay men navigate their identities in gym environments. Through personal anecdotes and thoughtful discussions, the hosts shed light on the broader cultural implications of fitness practices and encourage a more inclusive understanding of masculinity.

Transcript

[Bowen Yang]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast. This is Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers.

[Matt Rogers]

From Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[Trey Farrow]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Trey Farrow]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Trey Farrow]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Trey Farrow]

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[Trey Farrow]

Podcast starts now. What's up everyone? You are listening to Stradiolab. We just had a beautiful lunch from Lepinquetidien.

[Bowen Yang]

So here's my question for you. Le Pein Cotedienne Pret a manger and a which one is Daniel Heim? Which one is Esti Heim? And which one is Alondra?

[Trey Farrow]

Damn, you are starting out guns blazing. I'm up on bread and mozzarella, and you're saying, which French fast casual restaurant is which? Heim sister.

[Bowen Yang]

I'm. Well, pret is Danielle.

[Trey Farrow]

Le banquet didienne is esti.

[Bowen Yang]

I think it's Alana.

[Trey Farrow]

Really?

[Bowen Yang]

What's the third one? Wait, Fuck.

[Trey Farrow]

No, no, I think Alana's pret because, like, she's more of the household name.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, you think so?

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

And then Lupenko. Diane is st. Yeah. And Pret Amanger is.

[Trey Farrow]

Wait, no. Aubrey and Danielle.

[Bowen Yang]

No, Aubrey is not one of them.

[Trey Farrow]

What?

[Bowen Yang]

It's Pret. Am Anger. Le penco Dudienne. And is Aubame Pain one of them?

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay, go ahead, Go ahead. This is really good radio.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. Us fighting over which. Yeah. Aubame Paul. Danielle.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay.

[Trey Farrow]

Esti. Pret.

[Bowen Yang]

Danielle.

[Trey Farrow]

Alana.

[Bowen Yang]

Alana. Okay, great.

[Trey Farrow]

That was that.

[Bowen Yang]

Sorry. I did that.

[Trey Farrow]

Well, it's okay. I think it's okay that you did that. It's just that you were sort of wrong and aggressive throughout. You know, we set up the parameters, and then I was trying to work with the parameters, and you're like, that's not right.

[Bowen Yang]

It actually broke my brain so much. I kept. I kept thinking, oban pen is not one of them.

[Trey Farrow]

And yet it was the whole time.

[Bowen Yang]

Isn't there a different one?

[Trey Farrow]

I mean, I'm sure there's a different one, but that's the one we were working with.

[Bowen Yang]

That's the one we were working with. Yeah. Okay.

[Trey Farrow]

Okay. Jamba Juice, Joe and the Juice.

[Bowen Yang]

Jamba Juice, Joe and the Juice.

[Trey Farrow]

Joe and the Juice. And what's the other one?

[Bowen Yang]

I love this, by the way. This is the best podcasting I've ever done in my life.

[Trey Farrow]

No, we can't. We can't.

[Bowen Yang]

We can't. I'm sorry.

[Trey Farrow]

We can't just do three more things.

[Bowen Yang]

I'm gonna own up to this.

[Trey Farrow]

Okay.

[Bowen Yang]

Witch Heim sister is. It is my game that I came up with, and I'm officially calling it a flop. I think it officially is not a good game. I will own up to it in the same way that I owned up to when I tried to get Fury Road trending.

[Trey Farrow]

Well, that was fun.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay, so obviously it's. When someone looks, you say you look fabulosa. Fury Road. I have not gotten it trending. I have not gotten anyone else to say it except me. And I have to just own up to the fact that that is the same with the Heim game. And maybe it can just be my private inside joke with myself or with my friend Sam. But we have to accept when something isn't working.

[Trey Farrow]

I think Fabulosa Fury road isn't. It's not your fault it doesn't work. I think it's the fault of the filmmakers, Furiosa, because it's wasn't a big enough hit. I think it doesn't have the cultural weight it needs to have.

[Bowen Yang]

If Furiosa was a bigger hit, Fabulosa Fura Road. Every announcer on E. News when they're interviewing people on the carpet would say, okay, she looks Fabulosa Fury Road. Let's look into the Fabulosa cam and let's get that shot of you, mama.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, but unfortunately, it did not reach those heights.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay, I see.

[Trey Farrow]

And so that's not your fault.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay. Chaim is my fault, maybe.

[Trey Farrow]

Chaim, we need to unpack. What's not working about Chaim?

[Bowen Yang]

I know.

[Trey Farrow]

For me, I think what's not working about Chaim is that, like, there's almost something about the game that's just, like, too simple.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Like, Haim is like. Yeah. It's like, which one's the weird one? Which one's the film one? And which one's the brains?

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, exactly.

[Trey Farrow]

And so it's just sort of like 21 to 1. There's not much wonder.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, you're right. It's true. And also, none of them are really like an insult. Like, if you're doing fuck, marry, kill. When you get to kill, that's a shocker. If I'm saying I'm killing a bonpin, I, that means they're writing me a cease and desist letter. But if I'm saying album pen is sdheim, they're like, okay, I guess we're the weird one.

[Trey Farrow]

Quirky.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. I think it's tough. This is something I've been wondering, and I wonder this almost every day, which is. Is our worldview. We think it's so big when actually it's small. Do people care about Heim in the way that we do?

[Bowen Yang]

This is such a larger question. I mean, I do think people care about Haim. As we've said, they are the A24 of music. So I think people care about Haim in the way that people care about an 824 movie.

[Trey Farrow]

Sure. So, like, just like, people we know. We know.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay.

[Matt Rogers]

But I also think.

[Bowen Yang]

Do you think moms know about Chaim? No, I think moms know about Chapel.

[Trey Farrow]

Moms know about Chapel. I think music Dads know about Haim.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, yeah. Music dads know about Heim.

[Trey Farrow]

Music dads know Chaim.

[Bowen Yang]

And they love Billie Eilish.

[Trey Farrow]

They love to love Billie Eilish.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Music dads love to love Billie Eilish.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. I. Okay. If they're a 24, I'm like, yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Who's Neon?

[Trey Farrow]

Is Charli XCX Neon?

[Bowen Yang]

Yes. Even though her movie is a 24?

[Trey Farrow]

Well, it's not literal, George.

[Bowen Yang]

Of course.

[Trey Farrow]

Of course.

[Bowen Yang]

It's like, how Chap.

[Trey Farrow]

Yes, well, and she's Neon also.

[Bowen Yang]

But you were gonna ask something.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, but then I forgot it.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay, got it.

[Trey Farrow]

But she's Neon in the sense that she also, like, swept the Oscars. This.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, totally in the way that.

[Trey Farrow]

And you're expect every year, you're like, 824. 824.

[Bowen Yang]

But it's always neon.

[Trey Farrow]

It's neon.

[Bowen Yang]

Should we bring our guest?

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. I feel like this intro was like one of our more flop.

[Matt Rogers]

What?

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, I'm gonna say it. And for that, I apologize to our guests.

[Bowen Yang]

I just wanna say I'm having the time of my life and I'm embracing my flop era, as Jameela Jameel once said. Please welcome Gianmarco Ceres. Hello.

[Matt Rogers]

No, I just felt stupid. I felt culturally destitute. No, I couldn't tell you a Heim Sisters song. I've seen pictures of them. Two are dating now.

[Trey Farrow]

The sisters are.

[Matt Rogers]

They're not sisters.

[Trey Farrow]

They are sisters.

[Bowen Yang]

Who's the boy genius are dating?

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, you see, I don't. It's all a blur now.

[Bowen Yang]

Gianmarco, I'm actually so happy you're here. Actually, I am happy you're here.

[Matt Rogers]

Thank you.

[Bowen Yang]

Actually, what I was gonna say is I'm so happy you're here because we were just talking about how you're a touring comedian that is all around this great country road dog. So you're the perfect person to tell us how many people know Chaim in your experience. And I actually would love for you. Sorry to cut you off. No, I would love for you for. I would say the next calendar year of your tour to mention Haim at every show of yours and start collecting some data.

[Matt Rogers]

I think in general, comedically, references don't work on the road the way they used to because we're so fractured as a country period. So you will sooner see comedians reference Rainforest Cafe before Le Pain coterien. You know I can't do that in Wilmington, North Carolina. They've never heard of that. And truly comedically, unless you Build up a niche audience. You cannot have those. Even Sebastian Maniscalco, that's the number one most paid touring comedian in the country right now. Or last year. You cannot use that as a reference. Seinfeld. You can't. And so that's just.

[Trey Farrow]

That's so interesting.

[Matt Rogers]

It is. I mean, it limits the ability to reference in a way that like Twitter or something else would allow you to.

[Trey Farrow]

In your experience. What year did culture stop?

[Matt Rogers]

God, like right where I started getting into the arts. That was the end of culture.

[Bowen Yang]

I feel the exact same way. We sort of are like in the sinking ship of the Titanic and we're trying to reference time.

[Trey Farrow]

We're trying to reference time. We're trying to pretend that we can talk about Le Paycotedienne and it will matter.

[Bowen Yang]

No, but what you're saying is so true, it's scary. Yeah. And you know my big idea. Well, this is like my big. My big joke is we need a nationwide. It needs to be a top down, government mandated. This is the new thing everyone's talking about.

[Matt Rogers]

Isn't that what Obama's playlist was trying to be, essentially?

[Bowen Yang]

You know what, though?

[Matt Rogers]

It's not that I loved when he didn't have. He didn't have Beyonce's album and then he like issued a correction like, oops, I forgot.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay, here's a question for you. The concept of Obama's playlists, is that something people would recognize around the country?

[Trey Farrow]

Oh, that's a great question.

[Matt Rogers]

I mean, it depends where you're in the country. Some people would boo that list. They go with the list to avoid.

[Bowen Yang]

But they would know it exists.

[Matt Rogers]

No, I don't think so. I don't think so.

[Bowen Yang]

Whereas for me, the Obama's playlist is such a thing that, like, everyone makes fun of every year. Or it's like if you're an artist or if you're like a novelist even, it makes a huge difference to be on his book list.

[Matt Rogers]

They would still. The reference you'd still use even if it doesn't exist anymore, is Oprah's book club.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes.

[Matt Rogers]

No.

[Bowen Yang]

Maybe. Okay.

[Trey Farrow]

Trying to road friendly references is like one of the darker things you've ever done. Yeah, it's so funny.

[Matt Rogers]

It's the same with politics. It's like, yeah, it's gotta be someone we've known since the 90s.

[Bowen Yang]

Monica Lewinsky.

[Trey Farrow]

Okay, okay, Monica Lewinsky. Here's one. So if you're like doing a joke that has like Timothee Chalamet as a reference, does that work or do you have to Say, like, Brad picks.

[Matt Rogers]

It would probably work. But certain parts. First of all, I have enough of a fan base now that I think, yes, my particular fan base. But, like. And what you're figuring out. Probably not.

[Trey Farrow]

Wow.

[Matt Rogers]

Probably not. You know, I'd love. I thought it'd be so fun. I have, like, a musical theater y playlist, and I slipped in the Penis to Vagina song from Emilia Perez. And I think most people are going, what the fuck is going on?

[Bowen Yang]

Jean Marco. I can confirm that that's what's happening, because I have tried to make Emilia Perez happen for so long. My favorite thing. I don't know if you've seen the film, but her catchphrase is bingo. And I am obsessed with trying to make that the new fabulosa Fury Road. And specifically, when Zoe Saldana recognizes her at the big dinner party, she's like. And then. And then Emilia goes, pinco. And she, like, whispers it, but in a really. She's an amazing performer, of course, in a really, really compelling way. And I think it's so funny. And no one knows about it because guess what? No one has seen Emilia Perez. And also, no one even knows that Carlos Sofia Gascon was canceled. That is something only we know because we're on Twitter.

[Matt Rogers]

That's true, too. Whenever someone gets in trouble, sometimes you're like, there's people who have no idea this. There are people seeing Chris d' Elia still going. And they go, what happened? I mean, that's truly. I wish Emilia Perez. It really was. I mean, it was disastrous. But, like, it was fascinating. I mean, the twists and turns. I would love that to be whatever Rocky Horror is, like, just a real like. Or the room. You could totally watch it with Friends. I was so happy I watched it with my girlfriend. It was so fun.

[Trey Farrow]

It was fun.

[Bowen Yang]

No, I agree.

[Trey Farrow]

It's so sad. I do think it needs to be reordered, though. I was pretty disappointed that the Penis to Vagina song comes so early. I thought that was gonna be, like, the climax song.

[Matt Rogers]

Ye.

[Trey Farrow]

I at least needed it to come back, maybe as sort of a reprise. I thought that would have been nice.

[Matt Rogers]

No, there are some characters that you would think, oh, this is a new main character, I guess. And no, you will never hear from them again.

[Bowen Yang]

It's more of a sketch show, really.

[Matt Rogers]

A sketch show. That's how they should have built it. Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. This actually really scares me when I learn that people in other places don't know everything that I know. It really freaks me out.

[Bowen Yang]

You know what would be an incredibly difficult job for that very reason is, for example, hosting the Oscars because you are. It used to be that Billy Crystal would reference Shakespeare in Love, and every single person would understand at least the basics of what he's referencing. If you are. If you're Conan and you're referencing Emilia Perez or God forbid, I'm Still Here, the Brazilian film, there's no. Who's gonna get that?

[Trey Farrow]

Not, God forbid, the Brazilian film. I'm just like. But it almost becomes like a political conversation where you're like, okay, do we go to the center and reference stuff from five years ago, or do we push forward?

[Matt Rogers]

It depends if you want to win or not exactly comedically or politically.

[Bowen Yang]

Do you then find yourself in the position of being like, okay, I want to reference something. They don't know what it is.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.

[Bowen Yang]

Like, they don't know what it is. I want to reference it. So then you find yourself for 10 minutes explaining what it is for the.

[Matt Rogers]

Sake of, like, I remember, like, I had something about living in Harlem and, like, you know, for some of the Harlem jokes, you have to establish that this was, like, a predominantly black neighborhood. And, like, you can't go to the whole history, but you try to come up with, like, one or two lines that captured hopefully with a joke and then move on. So you have to, like, try to. You know, Sonny's referenced a TV show. I have a bit where I talk about. I'm really trying to talk about how I'm not allowed to take off my shirt in SoulCycle. And again, it's like, so many things I have to establish. Not everyone knows what spin is now. I know what soul cycle is. Everyone understands that in some workout spaces, you can take off your shirt. And this one, you sweat a lot. And it's mostly women, and it's like, there's all sorts of contexts you have to set up. So I'm working on it.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, it is the most coastal. Like, coastal sort of like metrosexual man problem. Not to call you metrosexual. To be like, touring and be like, I want to do a joke about SoulCycle, but no one knows what soul cycle is.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, yeah, But I have to establish it for people who don't understand any of it, even spin. Where did metrosexual. The term felt like it disappeared.

[Bowen Yang]

Talk about something that you can reference. Because it was the last dregs of monoculture cultural. People were talking about metrosexual, But I.

[Matt Rogers]

Don'T know if I would qualify as a metro. Cause Metrosexual seem more obsessed with appearance and looks.

[Bowen Yang]

I don't think you're metrosexual. I was trying to find the right word for whatever coastal sort of liberal man who takes care of himself, who would go to souls.

[Matt Rogers]

I wanted to start referring to myself as a fop. Like, a fop. Like, oh, who's the playwright? Oscar Wilde. He would have a fop character, and it always was like the flamboyant character. But in his plays, normally it wasn't necessarily the gay character. It was.

[Bowen Yang]

It's like a dandy.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, yeah, a dandy. But still, even that, like, there's something about appearance that I don't. That's not one of the things that is feminine about me. What would you say is my movement, my mannerisms, my.

[Bowen Yang]

Well, the musical theater of it all.

[Matt Rogers]

Musical theater of it all. The wanting to be, like, something showy, fabulous, in a way, but it doesn't translate to clothes. I've had to work hard to dress better. It doesn't translate. I'm not a huge camp guy.

[Trey Farrow]

You're like a sincerity.

[Matt Rogers]

I do. I'm more. I lean towards the musical theater of it all. But, like, camp, it's always, like. It's just too much for me. I can admire it from afar, of course, but I'm not obsessed with it. Yeah, but I love Liza Minnelli and cabaret. Like, I get. I'm like, oh, and I want to be you and admire you and every. And also make love to you, too. It's the full spectrum of love.

[Bowen Yang]

I do sort of think straight men who are into musical theater might see. Save, like, if our. Actually, I was about to say the most shocking thing ever, which is if we had a straight male president who was into musical theater, guess what we do.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

That his biggest dream was to be a musical theater producer.

[Trey Farrow]

Is that true?

[Bowen Yang]

He, like, loves musical theater. He loves Cats.

[Matt Rogers]

He loves Cats. He wants to bring cats to the Kennedy Center.

[Bowen Yang]

I had no idea he loved musical theater.

[Matt Rogers]

But you saw, like, they made fun of him at the rnc. He came out and it was light bulbs of Trump, and they compared it to Roxy in Chicago. It's a showman.

[Trey Farrow]

Oh, yeah. He is a showman.

[Matt Rogers]

There's so much about anyone in politics. You know, they're all wearing so much makeup. You know, might be different makeup and highlighting different things, but his makeup. Sometimes you see it and you go, it is crazy that we move past this. Why is it ending so brutally at the ears?

[Bowen Yang]

No, I do think that was. Talk about normalization. It's like when the makeup was normalized while the policies come next.

[Trey Farrow]

Well, but also, if we keep talking about the makeup, then people are gonna make fun of us for talking about the makeup.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes, yes, yes, you're right.

[Trey Farrow]

And be like, why would you care about the makeup when all this stuff is happening?

[Matt Rogers]

But they want theater. There's just something I go like, I think some people, if they have a way to artistically express themselves, they become a little nicer. Or I think, I think there's like, you know, pent up sexual tension. I think there's like pent up artistic expression.

[Bowen Yang]

You're absolutely right.

[Matt Rogers]

And it comes out in like, we need to go back.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. Well, you know, people have said that his version of like Hitler wanting being a failed artist is being a failed Broadway producer. Like, it's like, if only they had let him. Do, you know, Trump the Musical? Of course, Trump with a T. Look at George Bush.

[Matt Rogers]

He did all the war crimes and now he's a painter.

[Bowen Yang]

Exactly. Yeah. Maybe that'll be his third act, you know, after, you know, the entire world is burned to bits. He'll erect his own theater and put up cats.

[Matt Rogers]

I think that's what like. I think that's one of the things with like, AI. The AI art, which is like, again, talk about a conversation that, like, online. Online, everyone goes like, this is terrible. If you're making an AI right now. It's really. I keep seeing on Instagram people make themselves an action figure or whatever. And online, on Twitter at least, it's like, this is vile. If you do this, kill yourself. And then I go. And I look at normal people who go outside and read books and they're all making an action figure themselves. Cause it's just a cool little thing to do online.

[Bowen Yang]

That's such a perfect example.

[Trey Farrow]

We've been encountering this a lot recently.

[Bowen Yang]

It's literally such a tiny niche opinion that it's quote unquote evil. Which is which, to be clear, I agree with. But it is literally like, it's the equivalent of, I don't even know, like, debating who is gonna win some obscure prize in literature. Or like to think that ChatGPT is the average person just uses it to write emails.

[Matt Rogers]

But it's also the obsession with thinking that art is always about the product.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes.

[Matt Rogers]

And like, you know, we do it as a business, so it is involved in the product. Cause we're ultimately selling it. But for so many people, it's like, no, the art is the process of doing it. And going to quote, sondheim look, I made a hat where there never was a hat. It's like, sometimes people come to shows and they draw me while I'm on stage and they show it, and it's like, that's just for them. And it's hard sometimes for me to think about it because every time I mix something, I do a doodle. I'm like, we gotta put this somewhere. We gotta make a TV show. Merch, merch, merch. But, like, that's the illusion of AI is they go like, well, look, we can make the product without the work. And it's like, no, the work is the whole fucking thing for a lot of people.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. Oh, brother. The AI stuff is such a bummer in a way where I'm like, I don't even know where to go from there. I find it like, it'll die.

[Matt Rogers]

They'll make it so you can make the Office, but instead of Dwight's, played by Gabriel Iglesias. And you can make it, and you'll be like, your dad will be like, I made this. And you'll be like, I'm not gonna watch it. Everyone will make their own thing, and no one will care and will realize that so much of is that we're all collectively looking at one thing I hate. Everyone's talking about how the Pit is like they're enjoying it, being it weekly. I hate seasons that drop all at once.

[Bowen Yang]

Me too.

[Matt Rogers]

I loathe it. And people always go, I actually like it. And I go, yeah, you like eating cake for breakfast. And then you wonder why every meal is boring. You don't know what you want.

[Bowen Yang]

It's crazy. Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

And it's the same thing with, like, yeah, you can make a TV show or the Office animated to look like they're Powerpuff Girls, but it's like, who cares? It's about the cultural. We all agree to look at this one thing, and someone's curated that one thing. So I do think it will destroy itself to a degree.

[Trey Farrow]

You have to hope. I hope it takes down social media with it. And I think it might.

[Matt Rogers]

Or all film and tv, and we go back to theater. And we all go back to theater.

[Trey Farrow]

That's true.

[Bowen Yang]

I mean, theater is the only answer.

[Trey Farrow]

I mean, honestly, kind of. I've actually been having so much fun with Stand Up Again, and I don't know why, but I've been like, oh, finally people are together.

[Bowen Yang]

I went to a play recently and shout out Deep Blue Sound at the public, and the final line made me start crying. And then I couldn't stop crying. And I was like, I think this is my pent up. This is literally what. Being on Instagram all day, all my emotions are suppressed because all I'm doing is being kind of angry at some random gay guy all day, every day. And then it's like I hear one sentence that has emotional resonance, which if I was just like a normal person going to the theater all the time, it would be like, okay, well, moving on. Like, time for dinner. And I hear one sentence, emotional resonance, and I'm like, literally breaking down.

[Trey Farrow]

What was the sentence? I've got to know.

[Bowen Yang]

Well, I'm not gonna ruin the fight.

[Trey Farrow]

Oh, I guess that's true.

[Bowen Yang]

It was.

[Matt Rogers]

Whatever. I saw a play with my girlfriend recently, and there was a couple fighting. And the guy said to the woman, like, I've understood you, but will you ever understand me? And I was like, wow. And my girlfriend looked at me like, excuse me. And I didn't. I wasn't doing it on purpose, but I felt it. I was like, mm.

[Bowen Yang]

I mean, you just get a directness. Whatever. Live performance is.

[Matt Rogers]

All we have, is basically the show. But I did see a. I saw a Broadway show that I paid way too much for, and I felt scammed, and I felt a newfound. No, fuck the theater, actually. But it was my fault.

[Bowen Yang]

But that's Broadway, though.

[Matt Rogers]

Like, Broadway.

[Bowen Yang]

There's something. Broadway is literally Trumpian. Like, Broadway is like, for the literal 0.1%. The people making it are so completely out of touch.

[Matt Rogers]

I fell for it. I fell for it, But I saw a lot. To see Audrey McDonald and Gypsy and I.

[Bowen Yang]

That was incredible.

[Matt Rogers]

I really. When she's losing it at the end, I mean, she was just bearing it all, and it was close. I came to really sobbing in the theater. Just like, wow.

[Bowen Yang]

You know those. I just saw Bernadette Peters in the Sondheim Review.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, how was it?

[Bowen Yang]

And I mean, listen, it's ultimately like cruise ship vibes, but Bernadette is still Bernadette. It's like, yes. It's like, basically, you know, people bringing out one barber's chair and doing a song from Sweeney Todd and then it leaves, and then they bring out a top hat and do another number.

[Matt Rogers]

It's like, did she do Not a Day Goes By?

[Bowen Yang]

She did Not a Day Goes by, but she also did. Sorry, Sam, I can't believe you're out Gay.

[Trey Farrow]

Gay. On my own gay guy podcast. I can't contribute at all.

[Matt Rogers]

You do. Not at all.

[Trey Farrow]

Not even a little bit.

[Matt Rogers]

Sam isn't William Finn died recently. That Broke my heart. I cried about that.

[Trey Farrow]

Never heard that name in my life.

[Matt Rogers]

Not once.

[Trey Farrow]

This is my first time hearing that name.

[Bowen Yang]

I actually think we can talk about.

[Matt Rogers]

Football after this, but talk about musical theater references, because I have to do those on stage. Okay, so it's like, what, Bernadette?

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, like, doing musical theater references.

[Matt Rogers]

I had a bit that referenced Liza Minnelli, and, like, it would. Yeah, they do, but, like, younger people go, oh, from Arrested Development. And you go, no, from Fosse. And then, like, I changed it to Lea Michele, for one thing.

[Bowen Yang]

Do people know that?

[Matt Rogers]

They know Lea Michele from Glee. They from Glee. And, like. But Cats, I have a joke that ended up using Cats. And people knew that well enough Little Shop, they know, but you find out pretty quick. And a lot of musicals don't. Don't pierce that. I mean, Hamilton, what would you say.

[Bowen Yang]

As someone who's not a musical person, what musicals bring to mind, like, distinct.

[Trey Farrow]

What musicals do I know? Basically?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

It's like west side Story, west side Story. Basically, ones that are famous movies. West side Story, Chicago. Sound of Music.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, that's pretty much. Those are old. Sound of Music is so old.

[Bowen Yang]

Damn.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

I do wonder, you know, looking back 50 years from now, what stuff from the 2010s will have become canonized? You know what I mean? Like, what will be the sound of? What will be something that someone can confidently reference?

[Trey Farrow]

It's hard to tell. Like, right now, literally, I'm like. I can only think of, like, Gaga and Katy Perry as, like.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

For example, is the Sunken Place from Get Out. Is that gonna be something that stands the test of time? That's interesting as a concept. Like, people will still be saying that in the way that we say, oh, God. Like some, I don't know, reference from a 60s movie, like singing in the Rain or something, you know, like, I.

[Trey Farrow]

Think, yeah, that one sounds like that's a seminal state, but I don't know.

[Matt Rogers]

I don't think if you ask my mom. What's the Sunken Place from Get Out.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, totally.

[Matt Rogers]

I don't think she knows.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, but she's on her way out of here.

[Bowen Yang]

How dare you?

[Trey Farrow]

It's the younger ones we're talking about.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, tasty high note.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, hi.

[Matt Rogers]

Don't mind me. I'm practicing my new baritone sacks. I just heard PayPal's paying for people's stuff every day for 100 days, and there's 10 million up for grabs. All you have to do is use PayPal checkout online, so there's never been a better time to buy a few.

[Bowen Yang]

Things off the old wish list, like this leaf blower.

[Matt Rogers]

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[Trey Farrow]

Play at home.

[Matt Rogers]

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[Trey Farrow]

Honestly, Honestly, Honestly, no one wants to.

[Bowen Yang]

Think about hiv, but there are things.

[Trey Farrow]

That everyone can do to help prevent it.

[Bowen Yang]

Things like prep.

[Trey Farrow]

Prep stands for Pre Exposure Prophylaxis, and it means routinely taking prescription medicine before you're exposed to HIV to help reduce.

[Bowen Yang]

Your chances of getting it.

[Trey Farrow]

Prep can be about 99% effective when taken as prescribed. It doesn't protect against other STIs, though, so be sure to use condoms and other healthy sex practices. Ask a healthcare provider about all your prevention options and visit findoutaboutprep.com to learn more.

[Matt Rogers]

Sponsored by Gilead.

[Bowen Yang]

Our first segment is called Straight Shooters. And in this segment we test your familiarity with and complicity in straight culture by asking you a series of rapid fire questions where you have to choose one thing or another thing. You have to go with your gut. And the one rule is you can't ask any follow up questions about how the game works.

[Matt Rogers]

Okay?

[Trey Farrow]

Okay.

[Matt Rogers]

Wait, sorry, I. Oh, say what you said again.

[Trey Farrow]

That's a follow up question.

[Bowen Yang]

That's a follow up question, dammit.

[Matt Rogers]

Okay, okay. Just go.

[Trey Farrow]

Okay. Lana Del Rey or mmm, what you say?

[Bowen Yang]

Mmm.

[Matt Rogers]

What you say?

[Bowen Yang]

Singing in the rain or putting on the Ritz?

[Matt Rogers]

Singing in the rain.

[Trey Farrow]

A Trump impression or a rump inspection?

[Matt Rogers]

Trump impression.

[Bowen Yang]

Insider trading or outsider art?

[Matt Rogers]

Insider trading.

[Trey Farrow]

Honey, I'm home. Or yummy a bone that's from the perspective of a dog.

[Matt Rogers]

Yummy a bone.

[Bowen Yang]

It's not right, but it's okay. Or getting a Fulbright because you are gay.

[Matt Rogers]

Getting a Fulbright because you are gay.

[Trey Farrow]

Bernie Sanders at Coachella or learning Spanish as a fella.

[Matt Rogers]

Ooh, Bernie Sanders at Coachella.

[Bowen Yang]

Being proficient in Excel or being carbon efficient? Take that, shell.

[Matt Rogers]

Being proficient in Excel.

[Trey Farrow]

Wow. So we rate our guests currently on a scale of 1 to 1000 blades of grass.

[Bowen Yang]

It's named after Lady Gaga's song, which.

[Trey Farrow]

Is just called One blades of grass.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay. I would say. Okay. I think you gave an amazing performance. I think the thinking. Your performance of thinking was really, I would say, theatrical.

[Trey Farrow]

I would argue as well.

[Matt Rogers]

Cool.

[Bowen Yang]

You took off. Did you take off your glasses during?

[Matt Rogers]

I think so, yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

That's what we would call a reveal.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes.

[Trey Farrow]

He said this is a visual medium.

[Bowen Yang]

This is a visual medium.

[Trey Farrow]

The cameras are on.

[Bowen Yang]

I would definitely add a few points for that. Yeah, I definitely think it is above 800.

[Trey Farrow]

I'm gonna say 901.

[Bowen Yang]

Whoa. 901 blades of grass. Congratulations.

[Matt Rogers]

Thank you. I told my girlfriend, I said, if I don't get above 900, I'm gonna walk right out.

[Trey Farrow]

It used to be great at nonlinear.

[Bowen Yang]

Skin of your teeth.

[Matt Rogers]

I want to see that. I want to see Lady Gaga. I don't see a lot of concerts. I'm not a concert guy. But I'm like, I have the means and the resources. I want to see Lady Gaga no matter what on this tour.

[Bowen Yang]

You know, you're not going to be disappointed.

[Trey Farrow]

You're not going to be disappointed.

[Matt Rogers]

I need the dancing. I need some dancing.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. She's sort of the only one still doing it.

[Matt Rogers]

I saw good concerts when I was a Kid. Like, that's when I saw Spice Girls. I saw Janet Jackson. I saw Britney Spears early. Like the school desks flipping over. School desks. No, I mean, I do have sisters, but I was the one leading the charge.

[Bowen Yang]

But this is your musical theater.

[Trey Farrow]

My question is more like socially. Like, were you not afraid of being made fun of for this?

[Matt Rogers]

I don't know, like, people's interest. They were all lame. It was just like a boring private school. So there was no real bullying. I saw Spice Girls in second grade and I think that was just too young. People weren't like bullying based on straight or gay quite yet. But I went on a date in second grade with. There was a girl I had a crush on.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Rogers]

And her parents were like, horrified. They didn't know because it wasn't yet, like, inappropriate because we were second graders. But then they went with my dad, who was like dating someone which was not part of their worldview. And the rule was she had to leave by 10pm or we had to get home by 10 or something. We left as the Spice Girls started the show. Cause they were two hours late. Of course the concert will start on time. And I bawled, I cried and I wept. Because we left the concert as it started. Cause we had to get her home in time.

[Trey Farrow]

I'm shocked that you didn't have any shame, to be honest.

[Matt Rogers]

In second grade.

[Trey Farrow]

In second grade, I fully feel like in my second grade I was like, no, I agree. I knew what boys liked and what girls liked. I knew I had to be on the boy side.

[Bowen Yang]

But this is, I think, something. I mean, I don't know you that well, but I feel like this is something that is very charming about you is like the musical theater. Like, you do just like have interests in performance and in theater and in bachelor and whatever. But it does not.

[Matt Rogers]

Like, my dad didn't have super masculine views though. Like, he doesn't like musical theater, but he was of the disco era. And I definitely think, like, that was a real. We're just all touching. I mean, he was a hippie and disco, so there was a lot.

[Trey Farrow]

Okay.

[Matt Rogers]

So I think he just never. I was into wrestling, which felt very, you know, just everyone's wearing nothing.

[Bowen Yang]

Were you into other sports?

[Matt Rogers]

No, I was terrible at sports. I mean, we watch football, but I never like, was good at them or liked them. So I never had the pressure from my father. And in second grade, some guys liked sports, some guys liked Star wars, but it hadn't coalesced yet into being a. Where'd you grow up Potomac, Maryland. Near Bethesda.

[Trey Farrow]

Okay.

[Matt Rogers]

And not far from D.C. okay. So I just must have lucked out. I imagine there's. I just lucked out in terms of my grade not being particularly like, dude.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

I mean, sometimes that happens.

[Trey Farrow]

Sometimes you luck out. Cause I would always mask anything I liked in my sister.

[Bowen Yang]

But the thing is, like, you had something to hide.

[Matt Rogers]

My sisters and I with Spice Girls, they sold, like, little booklets at, like, Barnes and Nobles for one for each Spice Girl. And, like, we all got one. And my favorite was Baby. And my sister Victoria liked Posh because they were similar to it, not just their name. And then my other sister was Sporty. And it was like. Maybe it's because I had sisters and they didn't give me shit for it or, you know, they were half. So I saw them half the time. So they didn't have time to establish things, but I just kind of fit in with them.

[Trey Farrow]

C' est la vie.

[Matt Rogers]

I watched that Spice Girls movie. I had the vhs. And there was something. I don't know, but like, the girl power. I would be Hai Si Ya motai. And I'd kick and I'd do that. It was just what it was. I don't know.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, I mean, that movie's a damn hit.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Rogers]

Alan Cumming.

[Trey Farrow]

It's so fun.

[Matt Rogers]

Early Alan Cumming.

[Bowen Yang]

Early Alan Cumming.

[Trey Farrow]

I mean, there's alt bits in there. That is an alt bit.

[Matt Rogers]

That bit with the tour bus and it jumps over the bridge.

[Trey Farrow]

Come on. It's fun.

[Matt Rogers]

Does it hold up? Is it fun?

[Trey Farrow]

I rewatched it maybe three years ago. The bits are still funny, but it's longer than you expect. And you're like, huh, the alien.

[Matt Rogers]

Does the alien touch her boob or something? But that's like. To me, that's a heterosexual moment that they gave to me. And I said, hey, I like that part.

[Trey Farrow]

Okay, everybody gets a little.

[Matt Rogers]

Totally.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Should we do the topic?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Trey Farrow]

Please tell us what the straight topic is today. And what is straight about it?

[Matt Rogers]

Weightlifting. We're gonna talk about weightlifting. It's something I've dabbled in, and it definitely feels like a mix. One of those territories where it's like, it's. It's straight, but it's gay. It feels like a real. But it feels like a lot of guys go into weightlifting. Like, this is a straight space.

[Bowen Yang]

Totally.

[Trey Farrow]

Absolutely.

[Matt Rogers]

But I think a lot of times straight men are looking for a way that they can be physical with each other that feels safe from Being gay and weightlifting, is that spotting? Please, please.

[Trey Farrow]

I agree. I think it is a very straight space. And honestly, spotting is where I, I'm out. Like when someone's like, can you spot me? I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.

[Bowen Yang]

No, no, no, no.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh my God, the bar is falling up. No, no, no, no, no.

[Bowen Yang]

Why?

[Trey Farrow]

When they ask me to stand there, I'm like, you don't understand. Like I'm faking.

[Bowen Yang]

But yes. And also this is the difference between straight lifting and gay lift. Like, I do think there's something very individualistic about the way gay guys do it, which is like, tell me this is my time to make myself hotter so that I can go to Fire Island.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes.

[Bowen Yang]

And then for straight guys, they're all having such a good time and are there together and are like, you know, sharing tips online and listening to podcasts.

[Matt Rogers]

I went to Fire island for a day. Jay Jurden brought me around. He was like, look, the gym upon arrival was the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life. Just the idea of like some last minute cramming before you go to the parties. And like, it's not, it doesn't smell great and it's like a rough gym. If you're going on that treadmill check, go back to Manhattan. You're not solving it on that treadmill for 30 minutes. And it just, it was just awful conditions to work out. I would have to be so, so desperate.

[Trey Farrow]

Well, when you're there for a week, sometimes you gotta pop in for a midnight.

[Bowen Yang]

Have you done that?

[Matt Rogers]

You've popped in.

[Trey Farrow]

Last year I popped in for the first time because honestly it started to feel like, okay, well, I'm the only one not popping in. So everyone else gets their little pump in for the day. Meanwhile, I'm like, I'm on vacation. And then they're all like, where's his pump?

[Matt Rogers]

Uh hu, uh huh.

[Trey Farrow]

So I said, you know what? If you can't beat them, join them.

[Matt Rogers]

Did you, do you do a hard workout? Do you just get a light little sweat in?

[Trey Farrow]

Oh, a light sweat.

[Matt Rogers]

A light sweat.

[Trey Farrow]

Touch everything up a bit.

[Matt Rogers]

Sure, sure.

[Trey Farrow]

Just make sure it's all engaged.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay. So in terms of weightlifting, being straight, Cause I do think this is such a, like, rich topic. At the most basic level, you are trying to make yourself larger, which is of course like taking up space. So that's like just thinking very like basic. Okay. You're trying to make yourself larger and you're trying to make yourself look more like, like a statue of a Man, like, you are trying to be more man.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

And you are trying to be larger. Okay. So that's one thing. Something that's complicated about it is like, if sports are straight, there's something about lifting that's almost like skipping the middleman of doing anything that's useful. Like, in the olden days, you would get buffed by, like, doing manual labor and. Or playing sports. So you would be doing something that had some sort of other value, whether you're adding value to society or you're adding. Or you have, like, camaraderie and the athletics. And to do lifting is very shortcut. And in that sense, it's also straight because it is like, you know, it's like insider trading. Like, it's like skipping the step of doing more complex work to get to the direct result that you want.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

But it's also gay to not play sports and want to get buff. You know what I mean?

[Trey Farrow]

Well, buff for gay guys is like a reaction. It's a way to sort of like reclaim being made fun of as a child or something.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Trey Farrow]

Whereas, like, for straight guys, there's not like a. It's not necessarily reaction as much as it's just like, well, I do want to be bigger.

[Bowen Yang]

For gay guys, it is so tied up with, like, issues around masculinity.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

And reacting to being called effeminate or being called girlish and being like, well, I'll show you. I'll become even bigger than the man.

[Trey Farrow]

There's something about a gym feeling like a straight space where you're like, whenever I walk into a gym for the first time, I'm like, okay, everyone here is straight. And then if you're there for a few months, you're like, okay. Actually, only those two guys are.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Because everyone's kind of pretending in a really weird way.

[Matt Rogers]

I just think, I mean, at least going to like, there's one party at Fire island where I was like, oh. It feels. It was like everyone was the exact same body type. And I thought, man, I can't imagine the social dynamics with this. Just dealing with that on top of everything else. It's like when you see a picture and it's like 20 guys on Fire island and they all have a six pack. I'm like, if one of you goes through depression, do they make you take the picture? Like, where are you? Or is there a different party? And I was in a good place when I went to this party. I felt I belonged. I noticed at this party there was someone who was by all means in good shape, but slightly not as cut as everyone else at the party. And he was, like, the kind of silly one there. And he was, like, looking at him.

[Bowen Yang]

Welcome to our life.

[Matt Rogers]

But it's so funny. Cause I was like, you're in fantastic shape. It says everyone else's Adonis is here. Cody from Peloton is here.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, that's past guest on this podcast, by the way.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, he said hi, and all I said was a big fan. And it just felt like the light left his eyes, and I was like, oh, you'd love my spin material. Yeah, he would love all my spin jokes. I wouldn't have to explain it to you.

[Trey Farrow]

So you're right. They do make you take the picture.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. And what you're describing about being the silly one, it's. I mean, it is the, you know, it is the gay guy equivalent of, like, the very sexist trope of, like, there's, like, a group of girls, and there was, like, the one ugly one. And, like.

[Matt Rogers]

But the thing was, like, this ugly one was like, truly.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes, of course.

[Matt Rogers]

If he was straight, he'd be the fucking. Every guy be like, fuck, he's so with shape.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. What is. What is. Okay, okay. Weightlifting. I agree with this idea that weightlifting is straight, but it is an interesting difference where it's not having having a perfect body. Isn't straight, like, the goal to have a perfect body is not the same in straight culture. Whereas, like. But I think.

[Matt Rogers]

But it's a different kind of perfect body. It's like, I feel like with straight guys, I mean, I don't know if, like, professional weightlifting. I saw, like, the Arnold Schwarzenegger documentary, and you see, like, those dudes, and I'm sure some of them are gay, but, like, Arnold seems pretty straight.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes, definitely.

[Matt Rogers]

But there still is this, like, he likes the male body. I'm sure he went to guys and they go, flex, flex. Let me feel. And I'm sure if they could lick, they would, too. But, like, there's something. I don't know. It's just. It's. You, like, the male body. Like, sometimes I think you can, like, admire male body. Cause you like, you like. I want that body. I want to be that body. And that isn't necessarily sexual in the same way, wanting to have sex with someone, but it is sexual.

[Trey Farrow]

Well, this is that classic thing where, like, it goes back to even straight guys can jerk off with each other, and it's just male bonding. But they never invite gay guys to jerk off with them.

[Bowen Yang]

100%.

[Matt Rogers]

So I actually, first of all, I've never jerked off with another guy.

[Bowen Yang]

You're the first. You were too busy going to the Spice Girls concert.

[Matt Rogers]

Are a lot of straight guys saying this?

[Bowen Yang]

That's such a high school, middle school thing of like straight guys all jerking off together.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay, so no, see, you went to.

[Trey Farrow]

A different kind of school.

[Bowen Yang]

Not in Potomac. Okay. So I do think, much like the. There's something about something being so gay that it's just straight. And I think bodybuilding is one of those things. Like bodybuilding, if you think about it, it's literally men getting oiled up and posing. That's like something out of a gay guy's imagination. And yet because it's so far in that direction, it like transcends sexuality and becomes a completely straight thing or something.

[Matt Rogers]

You know what I mean?

[Trey Farrow]

It's very desexual.

[Matt Rogers]

Isn't kind of like when a gay guy is getting in shape or bull. I mean, per the Fire island point, like, isn't part of it like, oh, this is really gonna change my sexual life. There's a lot more people are gonna wanna hook up. And for some there's more open relationships, sure, certainly. But with like a guy, it doesn't always feel like the weightlifting is necessarily to attract the opposite gender. I mean, a lot of times they're in a relationship, it really is about them. Sex isn't as much a part of wanting to do it. I've always thought if I was like a gay guy, especially open relations, like I'd be motivated to like work even, because it would kind of. It would change the whole dynamic.

[Bowen Yang]

It's more.

[Matt Rogers]

Funny, me being a cape has no effect on my interpersonal life.

[Bowen Yang]

It's a more feminine impulse. It's like putting on makeup. For gay men, yes. Whereas for straight men it is.

[Trey Farrow]

It's like health. Health oriented.

[Bowen Yang]

Health oriented.

[Matt Rogers]

And for other guys, but in a different way, not for sex, but just.

[Bowen Yang]

Like it's competition, competition, non sexual competition in bonding.

[Matt Rogers]

Something that to relate about and again to be able to engage physically. I think there's just the desire to engage physically but still feel like you're straight or it feels structured so you're allowed to do that. I don't know. It goes back to sports too, where I feel like I had a friend, he played soccer and I remember once I hung out with him after college. He played soccer at Stanford. And we were going to one night to like a club, nightmare night for me. We went to like one of their houses. They all were on the soccer team together. And this guy took a shower. We're all in his room. And he, like, came out and he was naked. And these are all. These are straight guys. I am gay there, and this guy is naked. And, you know, these are the guys who spent in a locker room for this whole time. And this guy's naked, and he's just standing there kind of, like talking, and just. We're in his room, but he's naked for ages. Massively long amount of time. And I thought in that moment, I was like, I've been to six musical theater sleep boy camps. I've had gay friends, I've had gay roommates. What we are doing right now is the most erotic thing I have ever been a part of in my entire life. And these guys would never. Would never think of it as homosexual at all.

[Bowen Yang]

Were they addressing it?

[Matt Rogers]

No, he was just. And he wasn't, like, standing, like, I'd be sitting like. He was standing kind of like a statue. I always think, like, when guys get so worked up about a gay person in the locker room, like with football or whatever, I think it's because it acknowledges that what they're doing is kind of erotic. Showering together. And so if someone there who wants to fuck, they go, he just wants to fuck us. It's like, well, you're there, you're slapping each other's asses. But it's the thread. It's all just a thought experiment that they've established that this is not gay. And it's like, maybe it's not gay, but it's erotic. It is erotic.

[Bowen Yang]

What you're afraid of is not that the gay guy in the locker room is gonna hit on you. What you're afraid of is that you're gonna be attracted to him.

[Matt Rogers]

Sure.

[Bowen Yang]

It's like if you're holding a baby, you're not afraid of dropping it. You're afraid you're gonna accidentally throw it. It's like you're confronting a part of yourself that you have suppressed.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, but. So, yeah, I think that that's what weightlifting is, just another form of like. And some guys love it. Good for them. God bless you.

[Bowen Yang]

Good for them.

[Trey Farrow]

What about grunting? Grunting while lifting?

[Matt Rogers]

Sometimes it happens, though, if you really push yourself.

[Trey Farrow]

That's straight. I've never felt the need to grunt.

[Bowen Yang]

Sometimes it happens by accident, and I feel so humiliated.

[Matt Rogers]

I know, but that's how you know you're working hard. Yeah, you're grunting. There's overdoing it. There's performative grunting.

[Bowen Yang]

No, but I do think, like, sometimes it comes out. Does it never come out for you?

[Trey Farrow]

Not once.

[Matt Rogers]

Really?

[Trey Farrow]

I'm silent.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh. I have to like, focus in order to be silent. Because I, by default, I will be like.

[Matt Rogers]

Like, I curse. I like to curse.

[Trey Farrow]

Really?

[Matt Rogers]

I love to curse. When I was doing. Wanting to do Zoom workouts during COVID there was one time that my roommate was like, you, you gotta chill it out. Because I'd be like, fuck, yeah, fuck. And he was like, you can't. You can't do that. And I had to learn. I had to learn.

[Trey Farrow]

Wow. Was it hard to learn?

[Matt Rogers]

It was hard to learn. I'm a knight between the singing practice and the grunting and the I'm a noisy neighbor.

[Trey Farrow]

Tough roommate.

[Matt Rogers]

Tough roommate.

[Bowen Yang]

I mean, I do think if you're just naturally a performer, the grunting comes out more. Not to say that you're not a natural performer.

[Trey Farrow]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Bowen Yang]

I think another straight thing about lifting is also like self optimization element of it. Like you are. It's very Silicon Valley.

[Trey Farrow]

Well, it has been co opted by this type right now and sort of this like techie and manosphere ish type, which I don't know how this is the other thing of sort of talking about heim. You know that manosphere tech guy stuff is sort of some guy's heim. And I can never tell how widespread it is.

[Matt Rogers]

I mean, it was enough to win an election. You know what I mean?

[Bowen Yang]

Totally.

[Matt Rogers]

But sometimes I see videos for these man camps. It comes up on my feet where.

[Trey Farrow]

It'S like a guy being yelled at. I've seen this stuff.

[Matt Rogers]

They're being yelled at, but they're also journaling and they're also. I'm like, this is. I don't judge it because I go, I went to acting camp. These guys did not get this. They never got to do the Artist's way. And if we can rebrand the artist's way for straight guys and just change the COVID and be like the real bros way, the dudes. The dudes journey. Like, they. There's something where. It's almost like a horseshoe theory in terms of like sexuality or femininity. It's like they're going so far here that suddenly they're in groups together journaling and talking about their feelings. And you're like, if we can bring it all the way, you'll understand that you just have not been given a space in society to express yourself. And those camps, I look at them and I'm like, this is theater camp for men in their 50s.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. My fear is that they think the reason they haven't been given space to journal is because of feminism. Do you know what I mean?

[Matt Rogers]

Sure.

[Bowen Yang]

Because it's almost like everyone of all political stripes can agree on the problem, that there's a crisis, some vaguely defined crisis of masculinity. But then it's like either you look at that in a right wing way where you're like, well, the reason is because women are. Have taken them down and don't allow them to flourish, or you look at it from like the opposite perspective, which is like patriarchy also affects men. And patriarchy.

[Matt Rogers]

Sure. Well, look at Jordan Peterson. Jordan Peterson, he's like. He's like crying all the time. And I look at him, I'm like, how are you part of the manosphere? You're wearing the most flamboyant suits.

[Bowen Yang]

Totally.

[Matt Rogers]

You're sobbing. And I go, like, the key is in there somewhere.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

And unfortunately, it's as hard because those guys will see on Twitter someone go, men are trash. And they're so emotionally vulnerable. They go, for you.

[Bowen Yang]

Totally.

[Matt Rogers]

I'm going to man camp.

[Bowen Yang]

I know it's tough.

[Trey Farrow]

Well, I mean, when you put it like that, I'm almost like, well, actually now I like the man camps. Then everyone should go.

[Matt Rogers]

But maybe that's what happens. It's like at the end of the man camp, the counselor goes, just so you know, this was actually gay camp.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

I was liberal the whole time.

[Matt Rogers]

I was liberal the whole time. He pulls off the mask and it's a mask.

[Bowen Yang]

Get them at the their most vulnerable and then screen moonstruck.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

You know what I mean? Something as simple as that.

[Trey Farrow]

I actually think the idea that everyone just needs to go to acting camp and embarrass and ashamed themselves and bring them down. Absolutely. That's true. That's basically what we all need.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Because we get a little scab on us when we don't do that.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. There's. Sometimes I look back at it and I go, like, I should have learned skills. And then I go, but then I'd be longing for that thing. Now it's like, I got it. I needed that when I was at that age.

[Bowen Yang]

No, I completely agree. I wish I had gone to acting camp. Do you know what's interesting about lifting is via the manosphere, via Silicon Valley, whatever. Now it's like Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos are ripped. That is a big shift that has happened in this generation. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates were not ripped.

[Trey Farrow]

I will say Being ripped is starting to be meaningless in a weird way because you can just do it. Like, you can just buy it.

[Matt Rogers]

But it has cultural cache. I mean, like whenever people, Whenever RFK comes out with something crazy, they go, but look at him.

[Trey Farrow]

That's true.

[Matt Rogers]

Looks pretty fit at 70, whatever. And so, like, that's why I think they get into it and you're right, you're right. Yeah, it's a new. I think it's just a little bit new. And that's why it's a straight. I mean, Jeff Bezos. That's a straight guy for sure. That's a straight man.

[Bowen Yang]

Same with Mark.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, Mark. Ugh, Mark.

[Bowen Yang]

I wonder if it's also almost a reaction to people privileging intellect too much. It's almost like lifting working on your body is like the people's reading. Like, for so long, we. We gave attention to people that were smart and to people who had, like, done Reese who. Who had, like, done intellectual work.

[Trey Farrow]

Well, then it was money, then it was money, and now.

[Bowen Yang]

But there was something. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's something like populist about lifting because, like, anyone can do it, whereas not everyone can, like, go to Harvard.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, it is a.

[Trey Farrow]

But at the same time, that's a myth too.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, of course, the more money.

[Matt Rogers]

Can't they have trainers? I mean, dear God, having a trainer.

[Bowen Yang]

Not only the food. The creatine.

[Matt Rogers]

The creatines.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay, sure. Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

It just is a new sign of wealth.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, I guess it's a new sign of wealth, but it's a new sign of wealth when the goal is to look like what the stereotype of. Of like a non rich manual laborer would have looked like in like a different era. Like, it's just very confusing.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, but it can be like passionless, like, or just like, it's like per your point of, like, it's kind of skipping the usefulness or the camaraderie. It's just like you go into a factory and they'll eventually be able to, you know, just pump you with fake stuff. And people getting Brazilian butt lifts, but biceps.

[Bowen Yang]

Totally, totally.

[Matt Rogers]

Dudes getting bicep lifts.

[Trey Farrow]

Oh, I'll take two.

[Bowen Yang]

I do wonder what shortcuts are happening that we don't know about.

[Matt Rogers]

Well, talk to me. I mean, steroids is one where I'm like, I would never. Unless the only time I could see. And again, this is. I feel like seeing the movie bros is why I kind of was always like, oh, yeah, that's how all these guys are looking like this.

[Bowen Yang]

Of course, I respected that. That was part of that movie.

[Trey Farrow]

I respected it. I did feel like in the movie I was confused because it was introduced and sort of like, well, how do you think I got this back? And then it was like, never talked about again.

[Matt Rogers]

I just like that line, what are you training for war? There's something about that.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. It is this weird sort of dark part of it all that everyone agrees not to talk about.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

But even like, Arnold Schwarzenegger, he, on the documentary was saying, like, yeah, we did steroids. So it's just. It is something people need to be more honest about. That guy. There was some guy, he eats raw meat. He's another personality, part of sort of manosphere adjacent. And it was exposed that he was using all of steroids. And he kind of got. I haven't seen him in a while. I think he really was hurt from it, but he was wealthy as fuck. But I don't think I would do it. I don't think I would.

[Trey Farrow]

No. Whatever happened to average folks? I want someone that looks normal.

[Matt Rogers]

Whatever happened to average?

[Bowen Yang]

That's a book. Sam fetishizes average.

[Trey Farrow]

I love average.

[Matt Rogers]

But do you accept average into your life as well?

[Trey Farrow]

I think I do. I mean, I work out enough, but I don't, like, hone in and really get specific with it.

[Matt Rogers]

I do think you can. You get to an age where you're like. When you see people who are extremely fit or extremely this. Unless they were genetically blessed, that usually means they're a nightmare human being. It's a red flag. Any good thing about me, it's like, it is an indicator that my whole. Every day. Every day I'm fucking obsessed with this thing.

[Trey Farrow]

I have something that just pivot slightly, and I'm not sure if it's a good pivot or not, but I want to try it. The gender at the. In the weight room. I feel like there is a war happening of, like. Like, part of the manosphere stuff in a weight room is like, being mad at women, like, being either, like, dressing too suggestively or, like, I feel like I see, like, there's, like, all these videos of, like, proper etiquette or like, this girl was mad at this guy for looking at her while lifting weights, but actually that guy is mad at that girl. And it's like there's, like, this thing happening where there's, like, this culture clash in a weight river.

[Matt Rogers]

There's just a regressiveness in the country right now, and you feel it as like, we're reintroducing conversations of like, does a woman's body count matter? And you're like, God damn. I guess things don't just arc towards being more. It goes back. Things go backwards. Way back.

[Bowen Yang]

This has been one of my biggest. My biggest.

[Matt Rogers]

This has been one of.

[Bowen Yang]

One of my biggest realizations that I've had over the last few years is like, this is both bad and comforting. Is just like realizing how things come in waves. Like, just realizing the conversations about Wokeism and DEI are the same exact conversations that were happening about political correctness and affirmative action in the 90s, just with different terms. And obviously that doesn't make it any better because people are still being hurt by the consequences of legislation, et cetera. But it almost. Almost having the context almost gives you some sort of peace of mind that it will eventually swing back in the other direction or something.

[Matt Rogers]

Sure, you hope. You hope. Unless technology is able to solidify, move, but probably not. I think things do shift, but it's alarming. I think it's just shocking to witness. Sometimes people pretend, I don't know.

[Trey Farrow]

I don't know.

[Matt Rogers]

It's not good.

[Trey Farrow]

You know what bums me out the most about it is that because it comes in waves, that means, like, 2014 is, like, the peak. Like, 2014 is literally, like 1975. Like, everything is crazy, nothing made sense. And like, that's like, what we. The dream will be that we return to 2014. And I'm like, but I wasn't content there. No. Like, I wanted more.

[Matt Rogers]

Sure. But don't you think, like, there also is a weird fraction, though, where I feel like, like, the media, Hollywood, entertainment, it's still pretty gay and progressive, even if the country's going backwards. And that's why I don't like, how is this happening? How is Lil Nas X still so popular? But then parts of the country are fully pivoting back to let's revisit conversion therapy.

[Bowen Yang]

I don't think Lil Nas X is as popular now as it was when it first came out. Well, this is true.

[Trey Farrow]

I really do think that's true.

[Bowen Yang]

Lil Nas X. When Old Town Road came out, I don't know if that effect could happen now. There's something that's like, the way that people were able to be like, oh, how fun. I understand that there were also detractors at the time, but generally speaking, people were embraced it. I don't know if that would happen right now.

[Matt Rogers]

It was interesting. Who's the guy? Coachella. He's sang Queen. He Sang Bohemian Rhapsody.

[Trey Farrow]

Is this Benson Boone, I assume?

[Matt Rogers]

Benson Boone, yeah. And it's just like, you look at it and you go. Especially when he's singing Queen, where you're like, freddie Mercury was gay.

[Bowen Yang]

You are Mormon.

[Matt Rogers]

And it's kind of like every time they play that song, every time a straight guy sings Bohemian Rhapsody at a karaoke bar, I want them to put up that picture of Freddie Mercury lying down with, like, nine guys that look just like him with the exact same mustache. Like, that should have to play. You read the lyrics over that picture. Just to confront. Just to confront. Oh, you. This. I'm connected to this.

[Bowen Yang]

There is something so incredible about Benson Boone because it is just like complete, contextless reference. Like, it's just like, I don't know, jumpsuit. I don't know, mustache that flip.

[Trey Farrow]

It's also my least. My least favorite thing where it's just like, look how good I can sing.

[Matt Rogers]

And it's like, but he really can sing so good. He really is. It's incredible. But I just. It's more just like, I wish. I wish you could. I wish people could see or had to be confronted with the fact that like. Like this is. Or this came from gay culture because so many straight people enjoy this stuff in a way that's. I mean, maybe Bohemian Rhapsody should have added one lyric about sucking cock just to make people have to go like, oh, yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Well, I mean, not to be the most obvious point about this, but the Full YMCA song being Trump's anthem.

[Matt Rogers]

Of course it's crazy.

[Trey Farrow]

It's like the craziest thing. And it's about jerking off guys. That's the fucking Y. It is crazy.

[Matt Rogers]

I don't know how. I don't know how. I don't know how. But that's why. That's the thing where, per your point of. It can never go that far one way. Because I'm like, at the end of the day, this is baked in. Whether you talk about it or not, it's baked in. It's just whether people are allowed to be public with what they are or not, but they're always there.

[Bowen Yang]

No, I see what you're saying. It's more like the public narratives come in waves, but the reality stays the same. It's like the things that are more socially accepted versus not socially accepted come in waves. And the Overton window is getting bigger and smaller, and the things you are allowed to say on TV change.

[Matt Rogers]

It's the same way where they go. More people are by, and they go.

[Trey Farrow]

Oh, it's go to theater camp.

[Matt Rogers]

Go to theater camp. I'm telling you, go to theater camp.

[Trey Farrow]

You know, you literally could have a business getting straight guys in touch with their feminine. Totally.

[Matt Rogers]

But I think that we have to do is like you advertise it like man camp. And at the end, by the end, suddenly they realize they're in catsuits singing, and they're like, oh my God, I like this.

[Bowen Yang]

Not to put you on the spot, but don't you think that you are a man that is an alternative to toxic male comedians to a degree.

[Matt Rogers]

But I don't want to be on any kind of high.

[Bowen Yang]

Sure, sure. And I should about that. I'm putting you in an awkward position.

[Matt Rogers]

No, no, no. I certainly think, like, I have a fan bas. It's gay and it's trans and it's non binary and it's guys like me who just aren't sure.

[Bowen Yang]

But it's also women who are like, oh, look, a good man for sure.

[Matt Rogers]

I think certainly in the sense of whether it be sexual orientation or gender expression, I'm a friendly voice in a comedic world that uses that as an easy punching bag joke. But it can also be tough because as you talk about comedy, I have jokes that are like, I have a joke about how women be shopping was like an old thing, but sometimes I'm out with my girlfriend shopping and I'm like, they really do be. And sometimes it's like, how do you. The needle I try to thread is like, how do I express that? Sometimes I do recognize some kind of stereotype being true versus not. And also I like mean comedy. And I'm sure that will get me in trouble someday. But sometimes I'll be talking to. It'll be crowd work and it's a 19 year old and they tell me they just came out as non binary. And it's like, how can I joke with them in a way that is not babying? I don't want to be like, let's all cheer now and forget the comedy and feel good. And it's navigating that. And I'm sure the reason I never want to get on a high horse is because I know eventually I'll do something where someone will go, oh, that was mean. Or that joke. I was at a college and it was like doing crowd work with someone and they were talking about their roommates were hooking up. And at first I thought the roommates were gay and they didn't want to be in the room with them and they said the roommate was non binary. And I think the joke speed at the moment is like, instead of 69ing, do they zero? And it's like, I can see a world where someone goes, fuck you. Non binary people can 69. And I'll be like, yes, of course they can. It's just. It's a play off the word none. But I also think, like, that's. I think that is important in terms of, like, I think a lot of leftist momentum, progressive momentum, got stymied by a lack of sense of humor. And it's hard because if you let people make jokes, a lot of guys in a toxic society and women and two, go back to the most baseline homophobic jokes, but if you police people in an annoying way, they just write you off and they get annoyed. And so I do think there has to be a way forward with mean humor, which people do long for. And, like, in order for progressive things to go forward, you have to show people you can play ball. You can be a fucking asshole. You can make a dark joke, but it's tough with the balance, you know? But I think that's an interesting comedic space to navigate. And I want to be. You know, people use the term funny is funny to, like, justify shitty behavior. But I do believe that if you keep funny as your guiding light and you are of an open heart, you will ultimately make good work that isn't hateful, but it does. It can be mean, and some people won't like it, and the Internet will allow it to be collectivized in a way that feels. But you can't be obsessed because per all the points we said earlier, it's a small contingency.

[Bowen Yang]

That's the thing. And I think that's, like, the biggest thing I'm realizing. There was a brief period where canceling became mainstream, and that was basically a year and a half.

[Matt Rogers]

And then since then, and we were on the Internet. We were on the Internet.

[Bowen Yang]

It was Covid times. But since then, people have maintained the fear of cancellation.

[Matt Rogers]

I say that all the time. That now see comedians that literally still exist in that space, and they're like, can you cut this on the podcast? I'm like, it's really more chill. We're not doing that anymore.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

No, we're not.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, I do. Well, of course you do. Wonder if that also comes in waves and, like, suddenly in seven years, it'll be like, sure.

[Matt Rogers]

But I think, like, the mistake people made with that is, like, because we were all in Covid. And Covid is a unique thing. It was a unique thing whenever someone got canceled on The Internet or whatever. We thought, like, they're dead.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

Like I say, like, we had cancel culture back in ancient Rome. It says when you got canceled, they killed you. And I think it's because they knew if they didn't kill you, they'd have to hear you whine about cancel culture for the next 50 years. But like with COVID we thought people left the Internet, they stopped existing. And then this is part of the Trump era. This is part of everything. We're like, Kevin Spacey's still gonna go make movies, and you have to contend with that. I'm not saying you have to go forgive Kevin Spacey because of that, but it's like, yeah, he's gonna make movies, and maybe if he's not making them America, he's gonna make them in Israel. It's just like, people still exist. People still exist in the world. And you have to confront that in terms of how you deal with punishments.

[Trey Farrow]

I think the mean humor thing, I think is a good point and sort of in conversation because I do feel like in the 2010s, it was very popular to be like a nice comedian. Like, it was cool to be like, nice and like get sort of a clapter thing every once in a while.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, 100%.

[Trey Farrow]

And so then cancel culture, then we're sort of in this weird space where it's like, okay, we want to be mean, we know that, but we don't want to be an asshole either.

[Matt Rogers]

And I think, listen, I think the bottom line is speaking from talk about a straight thing, where it's like, I think some guys felt like, I'm not safe here. There's not a safety to be mean. People get so mad at me so quickly, they take me in the worst possible faith. And you're watching queer comedians get away with murder sometimes. And you're like, okay, and that Bill, you can't let that resentment. The problem is for some guys, it let the resentment fall, destroy them. Or some people stop liking their comedy. And they shifted so far.

[Bowen Yang]

Totally.

[Matt Rogers]

And there was a lot of bad liberal ish comedy.

[Trey Farrow]

Totally.

[Matt Rogers]

But right now there is some awful right wing comedy mixed in with some of the kind of funny people. But some, like, a lot of this killed Tony. You're like, this is not funny.

[Trey Farrow]

It's so bad.

[Bowen Yang]

That gives me hope, honestly, because you are absolutely correct that during the Hannah Gatsby era, like the, the.

[Trey Farrow]

Her presidency, the.

[Bowen Yang]

The quote, unquote. Yeah, like the quote unquote, like more left leaning queer comedy often was terrible. And it made you. I You know, it made us, as fellow queer comedians, feel like, oh, God, like, is this what people think? I do.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, sure.

[Bowen Yang]

I honestly remember, like, even just like, booking people for this podcast and having. And being like, it's a podcast where we talk about straight culture. I'm like, oh, God, they probably think this is.

[Trey Farrow]

They think we're, like, sincere.

[Bowen Yang]

They think this is, like some sincere thing where we're, like, talking about how oppressed we are or something. And, oh, God, I don't want people to think that.

[Matt Rogers]

Sure.

[Bowen Yang]

And there's something that actually feels almost nice about that switching. And you're seeing as you're saying the right wing people do horrible pandering material to essentially clapter about people that are anti dei. And let's hope that that means that the people on the left are going to become more creative and make better.

[Matt Rogers]

Sure. And also, first of all, I liked. I thought what was Hannah Gatsby's. What is it called?

[Bowen Yang]

Ninette Nanette.

[Matt Rogers]

Nanette was like a good piece of theater. And ultimately it was billed as a stand up comedy special for advertising purposes. And then everyone acted like, this is gonna invade our spaces. As if the comedy seller changed in some way. But I also saw, like, if you watch Andrew Schultz's new special, it ends with a video montage of his wife getting pregnant and having a baby and people crying and moved. And I go, like, don't you see people just sometimes want to cry? And, like, you're crying at the end of Nanette and you're crying at the end of this. Don't you understand? You have more in common? Comedians get to a place where sometimes they want to do more than make you laugh. And that doesn't mean that laughter is coming to an end. But I see people going like, wow, I cried at the end of this. And I go, that's what everyone was so mad about with Hannah Gatsby for so long.

[Bowen Yang]

It's like, how Chappelle. I feel like the stereotype of Chappelle's later work is like, he's saying something and then he gets really serious and he's like, they crucified him for that. Like, it's like. It's like, you know what I mean? He's the king of suddenly becoming more serious.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, my God. It's.

[Bowen Yang]

Anyway, yeah. Wow. Well, Gianmarco, any final thoughts on weightlifting?

[Matt Rogers]

Fuck. I think. I think my trainer, I don't know, he hasn't gone back recently.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, interesting.

[Matt Rogers]

But he's gay.

[Trey Farrow]

Huge.

[Matt Rogers]

And it definitely is like, that is one of Those things where I go, I want to have my trainer be a gay man. And I don't know if. I don't care if it's bad. I mean, that's the truth. And I don't know why. I don't know if I can fully articulate what it is, but I feel like I don't know. I don't know who I work out for, if it's for myself, if it's for my business, if it's all over the thing. It's just liking to feel a certain way, if it's to make up for not feeling athletic as a kid. But I'm like, the way that I want to talk about. When I was worried about if I was in shape or not, I asked a friend of mine from college, a gay guy, and I said to him, I. I have prance around in my underwear in general, I'm just an underwear guy. I'm a nudist if I'm alone. And I said to him, I'm in good shape. Right? And he didn't say anything. And I went to my room and I cried. And then we, like, he talked and he was like. And this is like a friend. This is a friend who can be a hard friend, but he's an honest friend, and sometimes you need honest friends. And he wasn't saying I was not in shape, but what I was saying that I thought I was. He was like, you're in fine shape, but if you think that you. You're, like, in excellent shape. That's not. That's essentially. Now, listen, I understand. Some people would hear that and go.

[Trey Farrow]

You'Re really giving him a lot of grace.

[Matt Rogers]

Listen, listen. No, but you have to understand the energy that I brought to it. It's like, if I came to. It's like, if someone comes to you and goes, I'm an amazing singer. Right?

[Bowen Yang]

Sure, sure.

[Matt Rogers]

And they're not an amazing singer. Are you the friend that lets them go on American Idol and make a fool of themselves? Or are you the friend friend who says, maybe if you want to be an amazing singer, you might want to take some voice lessons.

[Bowen Yang]

But I would say you're, like, in better shape than, like, 95% of the people.

[Matt Rogers]

This was a long time ago. This is because.

[Trey Farrow]

Oh, that's why.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, this is not. Recently. I'd say, fuck you, I'm in excellent shape.

[Bowen Yang]

I see.

[Matt Rogers]

But there's just, like, in terms of talking about my own body, there's something where I'm like, I want to talk to a gay man. Because I want to talk to another man, and I trust a gay man's ability. Like, talk about what looks good over a straight man.

[Bowen Yang]

And, you know, they're not battering you because they're not trying to fuck you.

[Matt Rogers]

They possess the lack of empathy only a man could possess. Totally.

[Bowen Yang]

Only a gay man, if any.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. Well, I've been feeling this way with clothing shopping recently, where I've been trying on a lot of suits and, you know, Sam's getting married. You've been having. Congratulations. Thank you. Sometimes I feel very sexualized where they're like, ooh, try this, try this. And I'm like, actually, it actually makes me feel so much better to know that you're sexualizing me. I'm like, you're actually paying attention. You have stake in this game. You want me to be. You want to turn yourself on through me. So I saw my little sister.

[Matt Rogers]

She works at Celine in Los Angeles, and she helps pick outfits sometimes. And I do sometimes think there is a thing where I say to her, like, I need to look sexy, and are you able, as my sister, to do that? Are you able to look and go, that's sexy.

[Trey Farrow]

She needs to recus herself.

[Matt Rogers]

Or are you ultimately gonna make me look good, but in an asexual way? Are you going like, ooh, make sure you get some chest hair in there, because that's turning the ladies.

[Bowen Yang]

I had an experience recently. I went to this new menswear store in Brooklyn. I wish I could shout it out because it's a great store, but I'm about to say a negative story about them, so I won't. The owner of the store was there. Really hot, attractive fashion guy, perfectly coiffed, beer, whatever. I was trying to buy a nice shirt for something, and he was being very much like, oh, that. I mean, the collar perfectly frames your face, blah, blah. And then I found out after the fact that he is, in fact, sure straight, not gay. And just like, because he works in fashion, like, speaks like that and says, like, you know, the color.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

And the way that I then put the shirt back on, looked at myself in the mirror, and I was like, I look bad. Like, the sheen of his praise was gone. And I have it actually here. I'm returning it today. I literally have the bag next to me.

[Trey Farrow]

This is one of the scariest stories you've ever told.

[Bowen Yang]

And I'm telling you, it doesn't look good on me. Like, I now can objectively see it. It fits me weirdly. It is.

[Matt Rogers]

I love in fashion, they have to be like, no one can know that I'm straight. No one can know that I'm straight.

[Trey Farrow]

Wow.

[Matt Rogers]

It's a secret.

[Trey Farrow]

That is crazy. And for you to go through the trouble of returning something, I mean, can.

[Matt Rogers]

You imagine and have the awareness of it and still continue?

[Bowen Yang]

It was very expensive.

[Trey Farrow]

Wow.

[Bowen Yang]

And guess what? I can only get store credit.

[Matt Rogers]

Wow.

[Trey Farrow]

Wow. Well, I can't wait to see what you come up with.

[Bowen Yang]

Same.

[Trey Farrow]

Should we do our final segment?

[Matt Rogers]

Get your mother loving ears on because your big time radio DJs got news. PayPal lets you choose how you want to pay for all the stuff. With PayPal, I can pay in store, pay online, or pay overtime. What's that? You want this translated into song? I hope you're sitting down. You can pay your own way. You keep those ears on, you hear? Don't just pay, baby. PayPal. Learn [e-mail] Honestly, honestly, honestly.

[Trey Farrow]

No one wants to think about HIV.

[Bowen Yang]

But there are things that everyone can.

[Trey Farrow]

Do to help prevent it.

[Bowen Yang]

Things like prep.

[Trey Farrow]

PREP stands for Pre exposure prophylaxis and it means routinely taking prescription medicine before you're exposed to HIV to help reduce your chances of getting it. Prep can be about 99% effective when taken as prescribed. It doesn't protect against other STIs though, so be sure to use condoms and.

[Matt Rogers]

Other healthy sex practices.

[Trey Farrow]

Ask a healthcare provider about all your prevention Options and visit findoutaboutprep.com to learn more.

[Bowen Yang]

Sponsored by Gilead.

[Matt Rogers]

Get this. Adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't. From swimming lessons to piano classes, us.

[Trey Farrow]

Parents invest in so many things to enrich our kids lives.

[Matt Rogers]

But are we investing in their future financial success?

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[Matt Rogers]

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Education and future today with a risk free [e-mail] iheart greenlight.com iheart Every day our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart. But then there are moments that remind.

[Bowen Yang]

Us to be more human.

[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

Ameca empathy is our best policy.

[Trey Farrow]

Our final segment is called Shout Outs. And in this segment we pay homage to the grand straight tradition of the radio Shout out. Shouting out to anything. People, places, things, ideas that we are Enjoying. We make them up on the spot. We are unprepared, per usual. Yes, we have to. George, do you happen to have one? Yeah, hit us with it.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay. What's up, cinephiles? I want to give a shout out to the movie Drop, which I just watched two days ago. Now, as everyone knows, this movie is about a woman on a first date. And she starts getting drops on her phone. Do you know about this, Sean? Marco?

[Matt Rogers]

I don't.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay, so she's on a first date. It's Megan Fahey from White Lotus Season 2. She's on a first date. She gets a drop on her phone like an airdrop. And it's like, hey. And it turns out it's a guy that is sending her messages. And they're like, you have to kill your date, otherwise your son will die. And she figures out that they there's someone she can see on the cameras on her phone that there's someone at her place where her son is being babysat. And so then she has to do all these things that this man keeps telling her, otherwise her son will die. And I guess I just want to give a generalized shout out to movies with a very simple premise that managed to stick the landing because it is actually very rare. You know, anyone can come up with a premise. But what people don't realize that it has to have a second and a third act and then it has to have a satisfying conclusion. And I would say this film pulled that off. Much like the movie Red Eye. Famous Wes Craven.

[Matt Rogers]

I want to say Red Eye.

[Trey Farrow]

I don't remember.

[Bowen Yang]

Anyway, yeah, so you know what? Keep them coming, folks.

[Trey Farrow]

Okay, what's up, freaks, losers and perverts around the globe? I want to give up to the broken screen. On my flight over here, I had a broken screen and could not watch movies or TV even. And it gave me a sense of superiority that I actually missed. I have been feeling sort of man of the people vibes, maybe even anti intellectual and not this flight. This flight I read my damn book the whole four hours and 30 minutes.

[Matt Rogers]

Damn.

[Trey Farrow]

And you better believe I much further than I ever thought I would be in the book. What are you reading now? The book for our episode on Thursday. Oh, I'm gonna be fucking prepped. And I felt like I could feel people looking at me saying, is he reading this whole time? Oh my God, he's still reading and he's not even napping. Not even for a little bit. That's right. I was a hero on the plane. Everyone was gagged at my Intellectualism. And sometimes it's forced upon you, but you have to take the call.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh my God.

[Trey Farrow]

Woo.

[Bowen Yang]

First of all, you are so ahead of me in terms of buzzy books, it's crazy. You've lapped me twice.

[Trey Farrow]

I'm lapping you. I'm lapp your ass.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh my God.

[Trey Farrow]

Role reversal over here, Literally. And now your body's tight.

[Bowen Yang]

John Marco, whenever you're ready.

[Matt Rogers]

What's up, sexy boys and girls around the universe? I stayed at a Hilton hotel in Wilmington, North Carolina. Hotels in this country are falling apart at the seams. It is a fucking disaster. And no one should live a life on the road because you really experience just the worst of life. But you see where America. Because going my room Saturday morning, 6:00am, one of the alarms in the hotel clock went off. And then it went off a second time. After that, my AC thing was broken. So it's 59 degrees in my room the entire time. And I complained, of course. And they gave me two things. One, they gave me $50 off at the restaurant in the hotel again. Am I happy about the hotel being shitty? No. But they gave, they gave. I complained and they said, we will make this right. I 59 degrees. There was no rooms. Then they found one room for me to switch that night. Society is collapsing. I understand the people who are hired in the middle part, they're not to blame, but unfortunately, this is the job that they've taken. And if you're there and it's your home for. For the night, they're the ones that need to lead the revolution. Give enough of those $50 cards that the hotel goes, we're going bankrupt. And maybe it closes and maybe that's a good thing and you sacrifice your job. Or maybe they go, this is a disaster. And you go, why? What am I gonna do? Tell the guy to fuck off. And unfortunately, you've taken on the burden of we can't just let it happen. We can't just let it slide. We can't. I can't. I can't just not sleep. And a shout out to all those people who have been put in shitty positions, those people in the lost baggage at the airports, that it's not your fault that the bag is lost. But you're the one who's saying, like, here's the $400 coupon for the flight. You gotta tear. You gotta tear up these companies from the inside and make them fix or die. Because there's no way this is sustainable. There's no way it's sustainable.

[Trey Farrow]

Wow.

[Bowen Yang]

I just Wanna say. I wanna give a shout out to the phrase the people that are hired in the middle part. Because.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

That'S a Jordan Peele movie. The middle part.

[Matt Rogers]

The middle part. Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

No, it's so true. I mean, I have to say, if I complain about something, which is very rare, and I get even, like $1, I'm immediately like, I'm writing you into my will.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. I'm like, thank you. This was really amazing.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. And you just got to, oh, if I worked out the plate, they'd fire me. I'd give 25 bucks each time they came in. I'm saying, hey, this is a piece of shit right off the gate. Here's 25 off.

[Bowen Yang]

I actually tip more when something is bad because I. I feel bad.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

But it was night. It was like he came and it was 50. He walked in the room and I like that he did this. He went, oh, my God. Like, acknowledge. It is very cold.

[Trey Farrow]

That's nice.

[Matt Rogers]

59 degrees is very cold. I'm not being a baby here. And the blankets are this thin. We all know what we're doing here.

[Bowen Yang]

They're covered. And come.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't lie that it's not that bad or the worst. Like this one baggage. The bag was ripped open. It was soaking wet. They ruined everything. And she said, it happens more often than you'd think.

[Bowen Yang]

And.

[Matt Rogers]

And I was like, that's not for me. That doesn't make me feel better. Don't even offer that. Then you should have a better answer. But it happens more often. You should have a better answer than whatever the fuck this is.

[Bowen Yang]

It's actually the opposite of what you want to hear because you want to be the protagonist of that story. It's like, how could this possibly happen to me?

[Trey Farrow]

Wow. Well, this has been a delight. Incredible, I'm sure.

[Bowen Yang]

Gianmarco where can people find you? Where can people see you? And how can people maybe even physically find you and visit your physically?

[Matt Rogers]

I announce my location pretty much every night. If you want to find me to do whatever. Ohnmarcosarazi all social media platforms. My podcast is called the Downside with Gio Marcus Serese. And I'm just on tour all the time. I post a lot of videos online and I'll have a special coming out later this year, probably on YouTube. So just stay tuned. Tuned.

[Trey Farrow]

Woo.

[Matt Rogers]

Woo.

[Trey Farrow]

Okay. Thanks for doing the pod.

[Matt Rogers]

Thank you.

[Trey Farrow]

Bye. Podcast ends now.

[Bowen Yang]

Want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month. Discord Access and more by heading to patreon.com Stradiolab and for all our visual learners.

[Trey Farrow]

Free full length video episodes are available on our YouTube.

[Bowen Yang]

Now get back to work.

[Trey Farrow]

Stradiolab is a Production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and iHeart Podcasts.

[Bowen Yang]

Created and hosted by George Severis and.

[Trey Farrow]

Sam Taggart executive produced by Will Ferrell, Han Soni and Olivia Aguilar co produced by Bay Wang Edited and engineered by.

[Bowen Yang]

Adam Avalos Artwork by Michael Fales and.

[Trey Farrow]

Matt Grubb Theme music by Ben Kling.

[Bowen Yang]

This is Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers.

[Matt Rogers]

From Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[Trey Farrow]

This podcast is sponsored by PayPal.

[Matt Rogers]

All right readers, Katie's Publicist finalist Kyle's it's time to talk about one of the most iconic payment brands out there. That's right, it's PayPal. PayPal lets you do you Meaning you can pay your own way.

[Trey Farrow]

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Options, including paying later with PayPal at millions of online stores. Iconic Pay in store, pay online, pay.

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[Bowen Yang]

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